Feature: What We Want From Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, and How It Needs to Improve on Remake

"Kill off Tifa."

Those are fighting words.

Anyway, I'm expecting something broadly linear like VII Remake was, given how quickly they appear to be turning the game out. That worked for Remake, since the Midgar section of FFVII was ultra linear anyway, and it had a ton of inspiration to draw from with the classic source material, but I don't know how I feel about the sequel never giving access to a full map like the original did.

Maybe being exclusive to next-gen means we can have wider areas that'll feel more exploratory. Cloud won't have to squeeze between narrow gaps every few minutes.

The story is what I'm most worried about. The Remake worked because it mostly kept to the broad outlines of the opening arc in the original game, but they've clearly engineered things so that they can deviate from the path laid out in that game in more dramatic ways.

Yeah, that 1000m away marker is definitely the Kalm flashback. Which did have an obnoxiously long walking section. I quickly learned to make my post-Midgar save actually be post-Kalm.

I want to see how Vincent would play and whether zack would be playable, I hope it's more open than the first but not full open world filled with mindless tasks. Plus bring back chocobo racing and breeding.
Do you think we will get the wutai substory in this game?

I don't need more exploration, just less corridors, etc slowing the character down. Those just cause teeth grinding. Also more meaningful side quests.

Liam's right by the way, there's no chance we're getting FFXVI and Rebirth within six months of each other. But we can dream for now...

I’ve never held the original too close but was looking forward to the remake nonetheless. Unfortunately, something didn’t quite come together for me. It’s absolutely gorgeous and has some incredibly thrilling and high moments but as a whole, I don’t know, it just left me with a very so-so feeling. Like I hadn’t gone on an epic adventure. Whatever it takes to communicate the sense of something grand is both what I personally look for in a Final Fantasy and what I’m hoping to see with the sequel.

Well I was looking forward to it until I read this article lol

Opinions are like...or as someone much wiser than me once said.

"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"

😉

I loved Remake and I'm sure I'll enjoy Rebirth as well. I like the fact that it hints that it's going off in an entirely new direction, or maybe not, we shall see.

Release it complete on PS4 instead of making us buy a whole new system (that's always out of stock) to get the full experience.

Honestly, if they were going to go this route, they should have just outright canceled the PS4 edition.

If this game starts with the Kalm flashback, that means they have to design and render Nibelheim, so Rebirth has to go at least that far. I feel like Rocket Town and the Tiny Bronco are a good stopping lest the game get too big, but that would make Palmer the final boss. So in that respect, Rebirth will probably encompass the rest of disc 1 at yhe bare minimum. Especially with the intrigue that Remake built regarding a certain plot point.

I've had a lot of time to think about this as you can tell

"Kill off Tifa"

Liam. Do you want the mob to flood your dms 🤣

@dustinprewitt do you get upset when other game series span multiple console generations too? Should Last of Us Part 2 also have been on PS3 or maybe Part 1's PS3 release should've been canceled?

The Gambit system.

I'm 100% with "better sidequests". A slightly more open structure (so you can actually go somewhere to do said sidequests) would be cool too, I guess.

@ShogunRok Man that first paragraph of yours were my main gripes with remake. The corridors and side quests sucked. Although I did like the side quest getting the music for the little girl, oh yeah and the classic finding the old man's inspiration

I'd like to see some better management of the materia system. I love how in depth it is, and you have some build diversity. But I feel like I spent wayyy to much time in menus. Maybe they can have materia load outs or something?

@Netret0120 The more the better. Let's have Rebirth truly go off the rails!

If there's one thing this game needs to be better at it's the interactivity and exploration, it always felt like I was stuck to the floor and it wasn't able to move freely.

For SE
Remake=change in story
Remaster=graphics upgrade

Better sidequests are a must. I'm sure they'll have improved upon an already great battle system, As for the story I hope square have the balls to go for it and surprise everyone even the naysayers.

I would love a jump button for combat

Not much to improve.

More main playable characters, more action-ish combat and slightly better story would make the game almost a perfection yet again.

I agree that FF7 Remake's greats outweight its lows, but for me what I would like them to improve the most is the combat. Perhaps not a very popular opinion, but as someone who enjoys both turn-based and action RPGs, I didn't like the combat. It felt like they tried to please everyone without being particular great at anything.

The attacks didn't cause any reaction in the enemies, and parrying/dodging felt off, so they missed the whole act/react principle of action games. As for commands, it took forever to load the bar to trigger commands, so they missed the timely strategy principle of turn-based combats.

Lots of people liked it, though, so I guess they should just refine the system instead of throwing it away.

This is coming from someone who never played the original on PS1 though i still intend to at some point. I really enjoyed Remake. The combat was top notch, the characters were charming as hell, and the production values are out of this world. Honestly the only two problems I had were the noticeable loading sections and the side quests. If they improve on both of those we will be in great shape!

I hope there is some sort of open world!
Ditch the dumb quests and just keep side quests that feels important to the world building/story and has some combat it!
Fix the ATB bare that you lose when interrupted even before the characters take action (magic or special move)! It wasn't fun and there was no real strategy around it, pretty random!

'More Killer... Less Filler!'

Expand on the great elements of Remake - eg Combat System / Characterisation - and cut out / omit some of the filler content and side-quests.

I'd rather have a really tight 20hr game vs a 60hr+ game with tons of uninteresting time-sinks.

Maybe also unlock hard mode from Day #1, with no need to play through base story first on easy/normal.

I'm a fan of the original, but totally fine with this new entry being its 'own thing'. I enjoyed the narrative beats of Remake, and look forward to the direction that will follow in Rebirth.

IMO, the original FF7 (and story/narrative) will ALWAYS stand tall... and whether Remake/Rebirth stay faithful or diverge will never take away from the greatness of the OG.

A tweaked (improved) combat system from Remake but set in an open world full of interesting locales… and great chocobo controls and physics to accentuate it’s traversal.

So long as they know what they're doing, I don't care if it changes the story drastically. I still hope it features heavy hitting moments though like the infamous aerith scene. I didn't particularly like that the trio under Barret ended up living in the remake, but if it means more screen time in the next parts and eventually leads to their deaths like in the original I'd be up for that. One of the best things the remake did is give characters so much more interactions and it was amazing. More of that is all I need to absolutely love Rebirth

I'd love if they did away the slow walk segments but the trailer didn't inspire much confidence in that lol. A more open world would be welcome but I don't know how they'll pull this off with

@Enuo They Could Stop At The City Of The Ancients Right After The Jenova Fight.

@Areus Temple of the Ancients wasn't even the end of Disc 1: Unless Remake project is going to massively compress the rest of the story, that's way too early. (I typed most of what follows before reading your post)

EDIT: the comment I was replying to got edited after I posted this.

In terms of where Rebirth is going to cut off — well since we don't know how wildly the rest of the remake project is going to deviate from the story beats of the original, hard to say.

I was somewhat expecting / fearing 3 more parts of the remake project roughly following a 3-act structure for the post-Midgard story, i.e. Relived ending at Temple of the Ancients, Remember ending with Cloud's return (which would break up the Huge Materia quest chain, granted, but that wasn't all that well structured to begin with) and Reunion (like many other folk I legit thought this a likely candidate for subtitle of the last part until the Crisis Core remaster was announced) going underwater, into space, back to Midgar and to the centre of the Planet. Oh, and with a contrived Sephiroth boss fight at the end of the second and third as well.

But for a suitable dramatic breakpoint roughly midway through the post-Midgar story, Whirlwind Maze, with Revengeance or w/e beginning with the escape from Junon: and possibly Cid and Vincent's joining, or at least becoming playable, held over to then.

@dancingstar93 I Meant To Say City Of The Ancients I Had Got Them Mixed Up.

@Areus Okay, fair enough. That was the end of Disc 1.

@Enuo
I feel like end of disc 1 from the original game, would be perfect place to end Rebirth, because after that the game opens up massively.

Lol @ Poundland.

The day I learned that was basically the British version of our Dollar Tree here in the states was the day my life was made complete.

Also I mainly just want more free form exploration.

And no more cheap matte environmental artwork. That was my two biggest issues with Remake.

I'm turned off heavily that is no longer a remake tbh. I've always felt 7 was massively overrated and the story was gibberish anyway, but it also has charm and I was excited to see that story and charm not lost to an archaic game end brought into the modern.

Also not happy that in 2014 a remake was the reason to buy a PS4 on what's arguably one of the top 10 most iconic e3 moments ever, then they tell us their doing episodes, then they tell us it's over 10 years and 2 consoles and finally they tell us they changed their minds and it's not a remake anymore.

I'm not disinterested but I'm irritated. Or feels like it's tarnishing the memory of the original. It's not what we were told to please be excited for and it's a decade and a platform late to boot.

And I'm not going to believe that jenova is not going to become an instance of Ansem by the time we're done with Nomura's revisionism until I've seen it all myself.

Also @get2sammyb "I have very little patience for anime bullsh*"

.......... Why do you work at Push Square, again? 😂

Die hard fans can't handle subversive storytelling and label it as "bad". You had that with the last of us 2, the last Jedi and also with FF7 remake.

I'm a big fan of the original and most of the expanded ff7 lore and making a remake that deviates from the original is genius. I can't remember the last game that I finished, and then went wild on theories of how things could continue.

Those who love the original and don't have the mental flexibility to wrap their head around something else will always have the original. Just don't discourage creative game designers from thinking outside of the box.

@Constable_What Partially disagree on the deus ex machina comment. Yeah, Cid's "What does this lever do?" moments with the airship count, but what happens in the main ending and prevents Meteor destroying everything was set up on Disc 1.

Seriously, is there a "spoiler text" tag on this site? I know this is a 25 year old game we're talking about but there are still people here who haven't played it.

I expect it to finish FF7 story.

@Milktastrophe yes.

personally i think they should get the DMC v director for ff17r-2 as the combat looks sick in ff16; as for complaints abouts ff7R going too like kingdom hearts, I don't see the issue, as along time KH fan, played every single KH game . Its pointless to release the same game with better graphics, looking at recent lou1 remake and mafia 1, terrible cash grabs. im glad its going in a different direction. its like a multiverse, that follows a different timeline to original ff7. im also excited to see zack being alive but this could throw a spanner in cloud's lies. also looking forward to ever crisis and crisis core remaster . from what is probably larger areas, expanded quests, possibly more of those vr battles, what about cameos from other final fantasy characters , could be multiple cid's like ff12. i did not enjoy those fort condor minigames from intergrade so hopefully less of that and im also thinking sephiroth won't be the bad guy after all he knows what's gonna happen.
also still a remake, does anyone actually know the meaning, ie remaking the Game, changing it so follow the ideas they had but could do due limitation in technology in 1997, its pointless releasing the same story, same gameplay, atb is done, its been going since 1987

@SplooshDmg what? JJ Abrams would just play it safe and retread old ground. It's more Rian Johnson.

I'd like to see Aerith survive. I don't think Tifa needs to die as Liam suggested. He seems to enjoy watching the world burn. Seek help man.

I'd love to see a FF8 style story, essentially two stories interwoven into one. Have the main cast and the original story, followed by a new adapted story with Zack as the protagonist. Switch in and out so they follow similar paths but slightly different. And then at the end, bang them together - so part 3 would include all the remaining characters. I'm happy with having the classic separate from this, those memories I'd rather not have tarnished.

I love Final Fantasy VII. It is my favourite game of all time. I have it tattooed on my body. Proudly.

When I first played Remake, I was on the verge of tears for a lot of it. It was amazing to see everything realised so beautifully, and the music (oh the music) was amazing. The the end came, and confusion set in. It was simultaneously satisfying and unsatisfying.

I played it twice to get the Platinum and a further time when it released on PS5.

However each time I play it the experience gets worse. As Robert said above: the hallways and restricted movement are unbearable on repeat playthroughs. The forced corridors (which were clearly and I believe popularly used to hide loading screens) were used far too often. Too much padding in places that didn't need it. In the service of a story that is so far changing things for the sake of it. I still believe a 1:1 remake with slightly adjusted scenes/ areas would've been better.

The combat however is fantastic. I wish more characters were playable and the world more open though.

@djlard I'm not sure if you've heard that they have announced it will be a trilogy and some of the Devs are already in pre-production on Part 3.

The trailer suggests that the characters know that something isn't right and they are going down a different path which is definately an interesting concept to me, not sure how that's going to go though.

@SplooshDmg true, that thought came to me after writing 😅

@invictus4000 pretty sure we're ok with the timeline that Nomura survives.

Thing is he's an artist. A character designer and background designer. He's not a writer, and he shouldn't be a producer. The original was still under Sakaguchis watch. Nomura made KH a trainwreck as well as 15.

Otoh I'm not sure who gets the blame for the bad writing. Nojima was the original main writer. But he left square in 03 to go freelance. Yet he's responsible for the horrendous FNC (falcie, etc.) And he wrote the xv scenario (but..... Not the script.) And most of the horribly written KH serious. Nomura writes here and there, and is a bad director, but he's not a writer other than bit pieces. Someone else is responsible for the horror. Maybe still nojima. He's credited in remake. Maybe he just sucks without sakagichi to reign him in.

@SplooshDmg This is what's wrong with episodic releases as well. It starts as one idea then becomes another.. if they revealed this as a reimagining of 7 back in 2014, I think it would have had mixed reception but ultimately been highly anticipated still, without the disappointment of being told it's a remake and then told it's an alternate story starting with part 2.

@johncalmc of course you gotta adhere somewhat to internal logic, but remake part 1 set up a mystery as part of an incomplete trilogy. Of course it doesn't make sense yet. I hope it will someday, maybe not. I cannot reference it to kingdom hearts since I never played that.
When reading through the comments though most people get hanged up on "stick to the original story", so it really isn't a objective critique of the story (that hasn't been fully told either)

@Uncharted2007 omg spoilers, think of the children!

Seriously, tough I have mixed feelings. I'd like to undo killing her off. Most fans would love an Aeris happy ending (wait what?) But her whole story line and character lose all of their significance without it. Idk if 7 ever would have been so important otherwise.

Honestly my main criticisms of Remake are the side quests, which I didn’t really mind until my 3rd 100% play through (I like a little campy/corny content from time to time, although finding random cats is a bit boring), and the squeezing through tight spaces which were clearly intended to hide loading on the underpowered PS4. The loading shouldn’t be an issue in Rebirth since it’ll be designed based on the PS5, so there’s one thing taken care of.

Corridor-like levels don’t bother me. The way I see it, the more open the environment is the less polished (don’t @ me about the door 🤣) and dense it will likely be. Some of the best games of all time were just corridors (the first 6 God of War games, The Last of Us, Ocarina of Time except the fields, every 2D Mario, Uncharted 1-3). It especially doesn’t bother me because the original FF7 had even less freedom of movement than Remake and i think what we got with Remake was superb. With that said, I wouldn’t mind a more open world/bigger environments to explore as long as they can pull it off and keep the quality high.

What I do want from Rebirth is an expansion of the combat system with more weapons, magic, and materia option and more playable party members. We’ll probably pick up Yuffie at the beginning of the game and Vincent a short time after, but will we start with a playable Red XIII??? How are they going to make Cait Sith work??? Will we see Cid or are they going to save him for Part 3??? Will they throw is a curveball and make Zach playable at some point???

Also more Fort Condor.

@NEStalgia Good thoughts and good info!

"Kill off Tifa". I'm livid... I had to lie down and breathe deeply after reading that lmao

I platinumed the game, it was fantastic for a PS4 title.

This being a PS5 game, I want more open world exploration and preferably an improvement to how the story was told. I have no doubt graphics will be phenomenal!

Remake - PS4
Rebirth - PS5
Part 3 - PS6

@johnny30 If you keep Zack and Aerith alive then you can throw out the complete story. That is what made the game so great.

And my biggest issue is how long it takes i lost interest a long time ago. A one on one remake with updated graphics and some extra content would be awsome and some more Jessie Raspberry.

Liam ik sorry but you really suck it looks like i dont agree with you on a lot maybe even nothing. 🤪

I think i like Robert idea the best how cool was it to find the Knights of the Round. And i really want to see Neo Bahamut my favorite summon.

I’d just like a massive Golden Saucer play area, with lots of games and side quests. Also a stack of trophies that encourage you to get good at them (obviously I don’t expect them to be necessary for game progression).
I don’t mind diverting from story events as long as character personalities aren’t changed and, honestly, there was very little freedom to explore in the original anyway until the end.

If kitase has his way this time he'll just kill everybody when they air drop into Midgar for act 3.

Just please, no more ghosts cropping up all the time to change things. Whatever they decide to do with the story, fine- but all this alternate time-line nonsense was a real killer for me, with stupid "whispers" manifesting for seemingly no reason...

Less filler would be nice. The 'puzzles' where you had to pick stuff up with giant hands for example were not fun and I would have happily skipped the warehouse with the trains all the ghosts in it, too. Some areas dragged on for far too long.

More exploration and combat is necessary, the first part of the remake was too much claustrophobic and also has a permanent feeling of sadness because we already knew that we could not see the open environments outside Midgard. Combat is perfect but the game needs more enemies (variety and number).
I believe that they will go a bit off with the story but I do not care too much. From the trailer and the original story I think they will make Aerith a goddess after what we know will happen to her and then she'll change the timeline or the reality somehow, those white feathers and her and her lines in the trailer indicate something as crazy as this.

Overall I like the fact that they just stuck to the broad outlines of the original story, and I loved the changes and the possible 'multiverse' story. I still have the original and if it was just a straight scene for scene remake I don't think I'd have loved the game as much as I did.

That said the side-quests were not great and got repetitive quickly and although I think the linear nature worked well as it was all set in Midgar, the world of the original opened right up afterwards, so I'm hoping Rebirth does the same

@NEStalgia Here’s the thing. As far back as a whole year before the game released, Square-Enix were marketing the game as a reimagining of FFVII. That’s exactly how they described the game during its early gameplay showing at E3 2019. They haven’t suddenly changed their plan, this was always the plan.

Part 1 was an alternate timeline which only loosely followed the events of the original game. There were big changes from the start, like Sephiroth appearing much earlier and having a strong presence, Sephiroth clones popping up all over the place, characters who died in the original not dying, the arbiter of fate ghosts, etc. With the arbiters of fate killed off, this timeline is now free to branch out even further from that of the original game.

@Recover20 yes, but the question was "what do I want?"

@admeister right but that's not what they announced in 2014 and still pretended it was a remake mostly true to the original until now. "Alternate vii story using vii assets and characters" isn't "vii remake"and I'm not sure the reception to "we're going to take a dump on your cherished memories" quite would have garnered the same fan euphoria as a remake did.

They should have called it FFVII-2 or something, not remake. But I don't think they planned to change it back then. And then decided to despite fans loving the remake plan.

The result is this divisive series that has a lot of people unexpectedly hating it, or liking it but not loving it. But that's the norm for ff these days. It's starting to feel like a series that doesn't know where it wants to go and fans keep hoping it'll be as great as it was 4 gens ago but it never is. A bit like sonic.

I want more exploration and better side quest, while exploring midgard is fun, for the second game I want a world map to explore like in the original psone game.

I think exploration will be better in this sequel because the game is made for ps5 only, no 2013 cpu and slow hdd to bring the game environment down.

I want more wide linear areas. Please don't make it open world, but having more exploration in the areas would be excellent.

I am absolutely thrilled for this wild ride. It's going to be a cluster**** and it's my most anticipated game.

Not sure if I can take more side quests like finding cats so less of those please, and less squeezing between small gaps too. Not sure how on board if the story gets any more bonkers, as Remake was just at the limit of my tastes.

Late to the party here but having only played a bit of FF7 back on PS1 at a friends house where we worked through some of it, I am only vaguely aware of some of the story.

I struggle with JRPG's, especially the story but that said I thoroughly enjoyed FF7 Remake. It was mental, over the top and epicly lavish. The combat was just so well executed that the long boss battles felt dynamic rather than a slog.

So I just want more of the same really. Less filler side quests would be good though.

The gender swapping dance thing was a bit much for me. Absolutely did not capture the spirit of the original game with that segment. I understand there's an audience for this sort of content (the song, the dance, the gameplay throughout), especially in Japan, but it didn't feel right in FF7.

Not a homophobe thing or whatever, I just did not enjoy that at all. That said, I also realised, at the same time, that I simply was probably not the target audience for this game anymore. Which, is entirely fine.

Retrograde/Yuffie's DLC was pretty good.

Overall, definitely enjoyed the game, mostly, but it's a solid 6/10 for me and I've got low expectations for the next release.

Once upon a time I hoped they'd do FF8 again but maybe they should do FF9 instead.

@NEStalgia Back in 2014 it sounded more like it was going to be a straight forward remake, yes. But a lot can happen over the course of 5 years, it’s not all that surprising that plans changed. By 2019, a year before the game’s release, they were marketing it as a reimagining of FFVII. They never tried to hide that. If people didn’t read the game’s description and made assumptions, that’s not Square’s fault.

They’re not taking a dump on anyone’s memories. They specifically set the new series up in the way they did to avoid that. It’s an alternate timeline where things are playing out differently, leaving the original story that we all know untouched.

@admeister I know that's the argument against CGI trailers and E3 in general, but that's just the thing. If they said in 2014 that it's a re-imagining that rewrites 7 and not a remake, I think a lot of us never would have been all that hyped for and may have written it off it to begin with. Bait and switching it later just adds insult to injury. People got excited BECAUSE they said it was a remake, and didn't really notice that they quietly changed the marketing near release. And as well as it sells, it is polarizing, lots of FF7 fans really hate it, which is exactly what they wanted to avoid doing and why they avoided a remake to begin with, then decided on a faithful remake, only to decide not to do that later.

I don't hate it, personally, but I'm also not tremendously happy with it either. It's ok. It's fanfic. Despite that I'm still more excited for it than 16 which the more I hear about it it's just starting to look like anything but an FF game.

@NEStalgia You mean because we now know that FF 16 doesn’t have any other controllable party members? I’m fine with that. I can tell that you’re more of a FF purist, with a set idea of what a FF game should or shouldn’t be. So your mixed feelings about the new FF 7 series and dislike of FF 16 are understandable.

I find your comment about FF 7 being fanfic kinda funny though, considering that most of the original team are working on it. Is it really so weird that they might want to create a fresh take on their most beloved game? I think it’s clever. Make an alternate timeline that follows the main plot points from the original, while still doing its own thing. Fresh, yet familiar for both new and old fans. I’ve talked with a lot of FF 7 fans over the 2 years since Remake released, and most of them are really liking it.

@admeister I'm not necessarily a purist. I know there's people that insist it has to be turn-based, etc. I don't think the gameplay can't evolve or that some of the mechanics aren't dated, which is precisely why a remake was exciting at first. For XVI I do think the game should at least be an RPG, and should specifically stick to JRPG designs. I could vaguely accept it becoming a WRPG, but, like I was saying in a separate thread with someone else, in a age where a Western action series like Assassin's Creed has gone full RPG, it's just bizarre that FF would morph into a linear action series.

With 7r2, I'm less concerned about the gameplay itself, (compared to XVI), and more concerned about the dismantling of the story. One thing about the original team, though there are important members visiting, there are also key members, especially Sakuguchi, and also Takahashi and the staff that formed Monolith after, that are missing.

IDK what the split is of like and dislike. I'm personally in the middle. Like I said, it's ok, but I also don't love it. But I do see a lot of people that really dislike how the story is being handled, much more than myself. Maybe it's not 50/50 but it's definitely not just instantly loved, either.

I'm still more worried about XVI than 7R2 in terms of being an FF game at all, but I can't say I'm over the moon about 7R2. I do figure I'll "like" it, but I'm going to be kind of unenthusiastic at the same time. 7R already leans into XIII a lot. Which is also a game that I don't hate like some do, but also don't love. FF has become a very middle of the road series to me with the directions they've been taking it. I'm probably more hyped for DQXII, though I do have concerns they're giving it the same FF/not-an-RPG/Westernized-grimdark treatment to it.