Topic: There are micro transactions in mgs the phantom pain :(

I think the issue here though is that if that 'grind' is exaggerated to the point that it becomes frustrating or tedious that you feel the only way to be competitive or get some variety is to pay then that is an issue. There is a fine line between the XP earned between unlocks excessive and paying for them pointless. If the best weapons gear etc are at the end of progression then it is pay to win even if you can unlock them by grinding too. In a competitive scenario, I want to be beaten by a person that grinded for the best gear, not by someone with more money than sense.

@BAMozzy: That's what I am getting at, in terms of the grind becoming frustrating or tedious I can't think of a full price game I've purchased that had microtransactions where I felt like I was being pushed toward buying them to progress. I come back to Dead Space 3 as it had a fairly deep weapon building system where you could use real money to buy parts and I basically forgot it was even there. I see MGS5's microtransactions working in a similar way.

In terms of online competitive, I agree it can certainly break the experiance. I'm not sure what kind of impact microtransactions had on GTA online, as I don't play it. I can say people in Destiny get real annoyed when Xur sells a weapon that they spent a long time grinding to get hold of. I remember the first time Xur sold Ice Breaker, people on the forums who had "worked hard for it" were furious and quit the game (or so they said..)

I appreciate it's using in game currency but the concept is the same. People just compare what they have against what somebody else has and feel they have suffered an injustice.

The only game I can think of that I owned with the ability to unlock weapons/gear etc is Battlefield. I don't know if that made any significant difference as a lot of the weapons are very similar in essence but I guess those who used the vehicles had a distinct advantage over those that were beginning the grind. As for the class unlocks I again don't know if there was any significant advantages with the gear. From my perspective, as I am not great in a vehicle - particularly those that fly, the grind is tedious as you get taken out far too quickly with no flares to defend yourself and the weakest weapons so killing things for the XP to unlock items is a tedious and frustrating grind.

Destiny never bothered me. I found most people hypocritical when it comes to Xur. For a start the exotic weapons are totally random - somebody could get an Icebreaker or Gjallahorn as their first exotic after 20-30hrs whilst others spend 100's of hours and have every other exotic but those. You can't grind specifically for those due to the RNG. Then when Xur does bring it, those with are angry and yet buy the exotics they don't have. I have heard people say things equivalent to 'he should never sell Icebreaker (because they have it), why can't he bring Gjallahorn? (because they don't)' No doubt they spent all week grinding for the 'special coins' just in case he brings an 'exotic' they don't have - I also think its very different because they are not sold as micro transactions or have a set requirement (like so much XP) to unlock in game but purely chance or sold. in game by in-game currency. I had the most completions of the first raid and yet people I helped through ended up getting most of the armour on their first run and reached a higher level before I did Its just the random nature of the game and therefore very different to Micro-transactions - I could understand peoples annoyance though if they did sell them with real money!

Ok I started this thread as I was a bit angry at micro transactions being put into one of my favourite games. Its obvious that some people don't mind and to be fair I complain about them alot.

However, the comparison between what games cost to make now compared to 10 years ago and the static pricing is irrelevant. What's relevant is if the company involved turns a profit.

http://amigobulls.com/stocks/KNMCY/stockcharts

Funnily Yes they do. (although less of one since the end of 2014 when pes got crushed and mgs the demo was laughed at) so that's it, Konami made more profit in the last 5 years than the previous 10 before that combined.

Why has everyone become so concerned with the economic performance of these companies? Making assumptions about costs involved in gaming. From doing a tiny bit of research scrutinising the actual financial data its obvious we are being led to a juncture that we wont be able to reverse. Its a scandal.

People really need to read up on the facts before slamming a game, MGS is one of my all time favourite games. They have already discussed the reason for adding micro transactions in the Phantom Pain, & it's no different to what other AAA games have added that don't effect gameplay. COD, Battlefield, DMC 4 etc all use micro transactions but I don't see any complaints, I understand not everyone is a gaming god like me who has got time to unlock everything in the game itself, which also doesn't effect my game if said person uses micro transactions. I don't like them but I am not forced to use them, & it's nothing new.

@banacheck: No every game with micro transactions is Slammed by some quarters, regardless of how good you are at a game as @BAMozzy has mentioned earlier in the discussion; level progression is nerfed to make micro transactions viable, big example here is mass effect 3 multiplayer which is an integral component of the single player game. Pay on that game and progression is 4-5 times quicker.

The excuse if someone has no time they should spend more money is a complete joke. Whatever happened to cheat codes? What a novel idea. I have less time - why should I pay more to play less of the game? In fact I wont - its the 3% of gamers known as "whales" who will pay the money. Look up the term in conjunction with pay to win game mechanics.

You may have a lot of time and be great at games but the regularity of micro transactions in big games will inevitably lead to pay to win mechanics. Even for you. Maybe not today, but further down the line. MGS will be great, I cant wait for it either but micro transactions have no place in this franchise.

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@themcnoisy:

micro transactions in big games will inevitably lead to pay to win mechanics. Even for you. Maybe not today, but further down the line.

That's what bugs me though, the assumption that it's setting a "precedent". I just don't see it that way. It's clearly an avenue that is being explored, and its quite clearly being done as a way to raise extra funds no matter how it's justified. But people aren't stupid, and while some will obviously be happy to part with extra cash the majority of people will not, and if and when they get to the this tipping point just like every other fad that's existed in gaming it will fall to the way side for something else. Just because we can take a measured view doesn't mean we are simply loyally blind zombies with limitless wallets. Stop worrying about it so much.

Edit: Don't you work in the car industry? You'd know all about pushing useless extras haha (I jest!!)

(No every game with micro transactions is Slammed by some quarters,)

I visit a few different websites & not once have I seen people slam games like the ones I mentioned, COD, Battlefield, DMC4 etc for using micro transactions, & i also know I haven't seen any posts on here also.

(big example here is mass effect 3 multiplayer)

Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was a co-op waved base hoard mode hardly a pay to win game.

(The excuse if someone has no time they should spend more money is a complete joke)

I would rather the dev's use certain micro transactions then destroy a game I love, just to be more accessible which has happened before sadly.

@kyleforrester87: Yeah we do things differently at our showroom. The price advertised is the price we sell at. The salesmen dont sell finance as we have a separate finance team - we sell cars not cash is our motto. We won't rush a car out of the door even if it effects a deal as we want to keep our reputation. We won't sell a car if its broken. We won't promise the earth and everything is in black and white at point of sale.

Our current promotion is free MOTs for life and a free service If you buy a car as an existing customer - its why we are so successful the customer Is the mist important person and we would rather lose money than have an upset customer.

Completely different to the game industry who have more in common with Carcraft (robbing barstewards)

@themcnoisy: Am pulling your leg buddy. Good point though, if your dealership does things differently the same can be said for how developers and publishers approach micro-transactions and DLC. They aren't all as bad as King and Activision

@banacheck: Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was a co-op waved base hoard mode hardly a pay to win game.

That's a misconception as I am part of the problem as I paid to get new equipment - its why I chose this example. I played me3 multiplayer for 50plus hours and spent £20-£30 on micro transactions. I still didn't have all the equipment. Its tuned to scam you of cash. You need the perks and Abilities to pass gold levels - as without them you get smashed. So in essence unless you have 200-300 hours spare yes it is pay to win.

@themcnoisy: Why did you spend £30 on microtransactions?! I dunno, maybe they just don't bother me because I've never bought one

Some games (like CoD for example) do have micro transactions that are purely cosmetic. The only thing you can buy are additional weapon skins or character outfits - until Advanced Warfare and its Advanced supply drops. The majority of CoD fans are opposed to these as it is bordering on pay to win. It obviously increases the chances of getting one of the better variations of weapons but not only that, everything you don't want can be dismantled for XP. Whilst not a lot, it can help you level up, unlock weapons, unlock extra custom classes and beyond a certain prestige gain 'elite' weapons a lot quicker than from normal play and ability.

In BF you can buy the vehicle unlock packs which obviously give you a greater chance of dominating than if you try to unlock them through natural progression. If I get taken out by a pilot, I want to be taken out by one that earned the ability to do so. If I struggle to take out a Pilot, I want it to be because they earned the right to be difficult to destroy - not because they paid to have flares or the best weaponry.

I really don't know about DMC4's micro transactions and I didn't know that it had an MP and therefore affect others.

The problem I have with 'unlocks' as a micro-transaction option is it detracts from the 'rewards', the prestige of earning them legitimately and the impact on the other players too. Like I said if I get killed by a player with a 'gold' camo gun for example, I know they have put time and effort in and deserve all the attachments on merit. They have probably gone through all that grind to unlock all the attachments, scopes etc. It is kind of pay to win if these enhance a weapons abilities - things like rapid fire to kill quicker, grips to add stability to keep shots on target easier, scopes for easier and better target acquisition. It may not be directly a 'pay to win' as such but it certainly can improve your chances.

@BAMozzy:

The problem I have with 'unlocks' as a micro-transaction option is it detracts from the 'rewards', the prestige of earning them legitimately and the impact on the other players too

I occasionally think like that, then I realise it's a video game and it really doesn't matter at all as long as I'm having fun! I don't play a huge amount of online multiplayer games though, to be fair. If you could buy extra credits in Counter-Strike I'd have definitely stopped playing that straight away.

Back in the 'old' days, reaching a certain level, earning a certain camo, unlocking certain weapons was a sign of dedication, ability and something to strive for. Its not easy to unlock a gold camo and a certain set of challenges are required so seeing these in game was something special and something to strive towards. Nowadays though the in-game camos are rarely if ever used and are not as spectacular as the bought ones and therefore lessen the reward.

Getting killed by someone with a gold weapon was easier to take, you knew they had taken the time to master the weapon and earned everything legitimately - they had put the hours in. Nowadays you get killed by people with more money than sense because they paid to bypass the progression, the grind, the mastery of the game.

With all the micro-transaction cosmetics that often look a lot better than the in game rewards, it makes the grind pointless to a degree, why bother to master a weapon to gain something that looks worse than a bought option? Often the grind to these isn't easy - it requires you to use the weapon without attachments to make them easier to handle etc. Which again, the micro-transaction unlocks are to a minor degree - pay to win rather than earned the right by natural progression. If I am to be killed by someone using a weapon with Rapid-fire, scopes for easier target acquisition, grips to make the recoil far more manageable, I want to be killed by people that earned the right to have these - not by someone that bought that right...

As I said there is a very fine margin between making the grind to unlock items to excessive and almost feel pressurised into buying them and making the grind to easy that buying them is pointless. Take away the micro-transaction unlocks and its the same for everyone - even if it is more excessive at least its consistent for all and everyone has to progress through it. You know that if someone has everything, they put the time in - not that they paid more than you to be at that point.

@kyleforrester87: Because I was working alot at the time and to keep up with my fellow xbots. I wouldn't do it again. Its just a waste of money.

As someone with a real lack of time (full time job, married, kids) I have to pick my games wisely. With me3 multiplayer the progression was just a bit too much of a grind to get good stuff regularly, and as its married to the end game then its a bit disappointing as paying made it loads quicker.

@BAMozzy @kyle @banacheck will be interesting to see how the game turns out and who's got bragging rights cant wait to find out, but I do hope bamozzy and I are wrong with this game.

Multiplayer for me has always been about a long commitment. Aside from Destiny it's been 10-15 years since I played an online game properly so MGS5 is mainly about the single player content. I'm not adverse to MP modes in general, hope it is decent in MGS5 at least.