Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

The haptic feedback is going to be a game changer! Almost impossible to describe but I cant wait for you guys to feel the difference vs the DS4!

I never started by 'comparing' the consoles either, my original post was predominantly about what the potential surprises they talked about could be and then went on to say that despite the fact the PS5 is lacking horsepower (comparatively), the Dualsense could be a leveller or game changer.

The point is that as has been openly stated by Sony, the direction they opted to go for with their GPU is smaller but very fast compared to MS who again its well known, opted to go large and fast (its fast by PC standards too btw) - the resulting choice by both gives Microsofts Console a significant advantage in sheer processing power and as they are both based around the same architecture, its not like comparing a TFlop of PS4 vs a TFlop of PS5 - they both should have fairly similar efficiency which does give MS's console a Graphical Processing Advantage.

However, the point I was making is that a LOT of people have focused in on that advantage and what that could mean for games - higher average resolutions, more consistent/higher frame rates, more Rays in their Ray Tracing but maybe fewer bounces because of Sony's faster GPU so can calculate more bounces as it has more cycles per frame etc etc.

Whether Digital Foundry were prepared (or able to with NDA's) compare what that hardware actually means in terms of game performance at this point is irrelevant. What they have been able to talk about with the PS5 in particular can negate any perceived graphical advantages and potential differences that extra processing power can offer. That was what I was saying - that is FAR from being a 'Console Warrior' at all. If you actually read what I said instead of getting all defensive over irrefutable facts, you would have actually noticed that what I was saying is that the Dualsense, the potential for how games actually feel, and maybe even play, outweighs the potential benefits of a bit more graphical quality. I was saying that the PS5 may have the edge that cannot be rivalled by the Series X. I could mention the Sampler Feedback system and how that can offset much of the SSD speed advantage if utilised fully - although you have two sides to this - Sonys SSD speed is working for you all the time and MS's solution is only working for you if the Game is set up to use Sampler Feedback - both have pro's and cons. Or if I really wanted to start an argument, maybe go on about AMD's announcement and Direct12 Ultimate feature set but that's irrelevant here as the PS5 won't use that API. The only reason I mentioned Series X was because it does have more graphical horsepower but only because the way games feel to play can outweigh the benefits of that.

With many new rendering tricks available to developers, it also can become difficult to see the difference in Visual Quality at 4k. Its not like the start of this generation when everything was basically native (although Killzone did utilise reconstruction to achieve its higher resolution look) so games did look noticeably worse at 900p vs 1080p and you didn't really need an analysis to see the difference. IF, and this is a hypothetical IF, PS5 had to settle for 1800p and Series X offered 2160p, that difference, whilst possibly noticeable (depending on how much post processing was used), wouldn't be as obvious despite it having the same %age drop in pixel counts. Even if the PS5 had to use reconstruction to deliver a 4k and Series X was native, that difference could be minimal - unless you get up really close. However, its still technically a reduction in quality because there is fewer pixels with some interpolation to get to 4k, there is some reconstruction artefacts in motion. And IF the way the games feel to play is the same, then that is maybe something to consider - especially with RT and the extra shaders and TMU's the Series X has.

However, the Dualsense adds another dimension to games that even if the visual quality was noticeably lower, it can add a LOT more to the gaming experience than benefits of that higher quality image would offer. Imagine feeling the direction an enemy is as he is shooting at you, being able to feel based on a rumble in the controller and maybe even feel what type of weapon they have. A small calibre pistol for example having a 'sharp' but small rumble compared to a high calibre high powered assault rifle that hits with a heavy and deep rumble - coupled with the precision of the 3D audio, that's much better than having a slightly sharper and cleaner image, having maybe cleaner or more objects reflected, maybe higher res shadows etc for example. That's just 1 example, in the same game, you could have a variety of weapons that feel different, double stage triggers that you can feel exactly where the first and second shots are, different resistance on bows to reflect their draw weight. You can also get a sense of the surfaces you are walking on, maybe change the way Stealth games feel to play because you can sense the surface you are walking on and whether or not you can move faster or slower without making a noise. Get the sense of walking on dried leaves so have to move much slower and then reach some grass and can move a bit faster. The Direction of wind, as discussed in the Astrobot preview, could also help with Shooting games - instead of looking for a windsock (or some other visual clue), taking your eye of the target, you could feel the direction and strength through the controller and use that to hit your target.

All these things (and more) can be a game changer that offsets any advantage higher visual quality may offer and, as someone who will own both, its not as simple as this one has the higher resolution so that's the platform to buy 'X' game on. How that is coming across as being a 'Console Warrior' and, in particular, an Xbox fanboy, I really don't understand at all. If anything, its the other way around and saying that Sony perhaps were right to go for a 'smaller' and cheaper APU and put the money into the way gamers interact with games (ie through the controller).

The purpose of my post was to say I doubt either console has some big secret ace up their sleeve that's going to radically change the rule book as far as hardware and gaming performance. I am not saying that these consoles won't surprise in terms of what they can achieve compared to say PC equivalents or how much of a step up considering both Pro and X hardware. The X for example is 6TF and the Series X is little over 12TF - mathematically 'double' but certainly going to be more than a 2x leap and even though the PS5 is a PS4 Pro and X combined (6+ 4.2 = 10.2TF). its going to be more than 2x the X as well, but the surprise is likely to come from the 'experiences' and transformative feel of gaming - things that really benefit from hands on.

I had hoped that my post would of led to a discussion more about the Dualsense and what gamechanging hopes and uses they would like to see. I have mentioned a few here with regards to mostly shooters but was hoping to generate a positive discussion about the potential this offers.

Rather than sling names at anyone, can we please move on and maybe discuss what you hope the Dualsense can bring to gaming? How you would like to see it utilised and what you hope from certain game genres - move it away from fanboy attacks and into a positive discussion... Please

@redd214 How did you even manage to get it working? Don't you need a game that supports haptic feedback in the first place?

@BAMozzy
I agree with your last paragraph.
It's exactly why I asked not to go into console war argument plz. Rich and John statements was interesting to think about and having nothing to do with console wars and nothing to do with console comparisons.
Thank you.

@Octane I didn't do anything special at all. Was just playing the Crew 2 on remote play on my laptop but the difference is astounding compared to the DS4 using both back to back, also much more impressive than the HD rumble in the Switch/Pro Controller. I don't know if its the program that picked it up or just the difference in the actual motors of the controller itself, though I'm assuming the latter.

You can feel the weight transfer of the car from one side to the other when going around a corner and its much more pronounced than with the dualshock, when driving off-road I can literally feel which tire is in the dirt on the controller, when I hit the nitrous there is a burst of vibration that flows from the top of the controller to the bottom just like in real life when you are pushed back to the seat if you've ever been in a car that had nitrous. Running into a plant is vastly different that running into a light pole for example. And that is just with an old PS4 game, looking forward to feeling games that were designed around it.

I'm not the best with descriptions but hopefully that helps a bit.

@redd214 That sounds good. And the Crew 2 isn't even optimised for the controller, so I imagine it will be even better on the actual hardware.

@redd214 would be great to hear your thoughts on the pulse headset when your ps5 comes. Been tempted to upgrade from my ps gold headphones but wanted to see if the pulse offer tangible improvements. Great to hear the dualsense is working well with ps4 content, enjoy!

@redd214 Thanks for sharing! It does sound impressive from what I've seen elsewhere too. Hopefully this means that all games we will notice a difference and the improvements the dual sense gives are not so gimmicky. Which I know has been a critique of the these things in the past.

Your welcome guys!

@R1spam the headset is good so far, haven't been blown away by it but obviously just using it on the ps4 so that certainly may change. Is on par with the ps4 gold headset though the fit, at least for me is a bit better. The way it curves is more comfortable on my ears. Though from what I can tell it's using the same type of "pleather" material on the cups as the gold headset and that crap started peeling off a lot sooner than it should have for me so that's something long term will have to keep an eye on.

@Octane @JohnnyShoulder yeah I was very shocked to notice such a difference immediately especially playing only thru remote play. The amount of games that are supposedly taking advantage of it so at launch is promising but we'll see how long that keeps up for 3rd parties, I'm sure it'll be implemented creatively with all ps studios games though.

Dock came, not as exciting lol. Works, charges controller as expected but happy to get another piece of the puzzle. Though the boss lady (wife) after seeing these ps5 boxes is giving me that "my turn to go shopping" look lol 😂😫

20 days left folks 😁 12 if your across the pond, lucky people. Can't remember being this excited for a new console in a long time!

The DualSense news has me excited. Mainly because it comes from news sites. I remember when HD Rumble was made to be a big deal, but it was hardly talked about during the previews.

Wait, so PS5 soft release date will be 3 weeks later from now ?? 😮

@Anti-Matter Not sure what you mean by 'soft' release, but the console releases 12th November in the US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand and South Korea, and 19th November in the UK and the rest of the world.

@Kidfried it's about 4.5 inches or 11-12 cm

Same here! I'd love to see a legit Spider-Man 3 game that completely wraps up Peter's story arc, as well as Miles standalone game being popular enough for it's own direct sequel.

(I secretly hope we'll also get three Miles Morales games)

@KidBoruto @TheFrenchiestFry I just wanna game in the same art style as ITSV. Having the suit is a good step in that direction, but it would blow my mind to have the whole game in a similar style. Just like the film did when I saw it.

@Kidfried Yes November is a great time to be a gamer, not sure what Nintendo have coming out and xbox owners can play all their old games from decades past, damn shame about Halo infinite. But Dammit Sony have me tied to their eco system with all the awesome 1st party games sequels and hopefully some new IP's to get excited about!

@JohnnyShoulder Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was actually a pretty great example of mimicking that comic book feel but the ITSV suit seems to be going even a step further

Based on screenshots it looks like they even added the onomatopoeia from hit effects like POW and WHAM straight from the film when you beat up goons

This doesn't look like the homemade suit Miles wore in that gif

If that's the suit I think it is I'd just like to say I called it, pay me my royalties Insomniac even though it was probably in the game before its announcement