@Th3solution it was really good mate, a really well told (for the most part) fantasy narrative of just EPIC proportions, production values that compare favourably to the big Sony first party blockbusters, combat that I found really fun and more versatile that some would give it credit… a solid 9 out of 10.
Don’t think it’d make my top 10 games of all time… I’d have to have a good think 🤔, will be a worthy platinum milestone though.
@Th3solution I think you’ll enjoy it mate, the combat/cool-down system is similar (albeit not quite as good) as the Norse God of War games and I remember you playing and enjoying at least one of those (maybe two, I can’t remember if you played Ragnarok or not).
Will be similarly interested to hear your thoughts on the game in the coming months.
@colonelkilgore Yeah, I’m ashamed that I haven’t played Ragnarok yet. I definitely remember your being totally smitten by it, and if it’s anywhere near the quality of GoW ‘18 then I’ll be really happy with it too. Same for FF16 — if it’s combat is anywhere near GoW then I should love it.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
Speaking to GoW, it needs to take lessons from FF16 is having time spent meaningfully and not having a bunch padding that kills pacing. I do feel they have some similarities, and it felt like everything GoW got wrong, FF16 got right. It didn’t feel like 33-50% of the game should have been cut because it serves no purpose other than padding.
@nessisonett It's so good. Heavensward is my least favourite part but even that is good. I think Stormblood is considered the worst bit but I thought it was great, and once you get to Shadowbringers it's all golden.
I'm keeping it on the backburner now as a game I just do a bit in every now and again. Might try out some other classes etc.
@KilloWertz I thought the ending was great! I can certainly understand your frustration with the ambiguity but I personally didn’t read it as such. The only point I see open to interpretation is whether Joshua survived or not. Ultimately, I don’t believe it really matters. Clive, on the other hand, is surely dead, as Cid before him.
The game spends so much time developing all of these deep, personal relationships because Clive’s sacrifice becomes emotionally and thematically meaningless without them. It’s the antithesis to Ultima and the ultimate expression of his lifelong service to his cause - to create a world in which people can live of their own free will.
I’ve interpreted the main theme of the game - the one all of its themes tie back into - to be sacrifice. Many characters sacrifice a great deal throughout. As the story progresses and the subject matter of service (as in, to serve) is explored in great depth and the various themes refine themselves, the characters’ claimed volition transforms their collective sacrifice into acts of love the only way love can. For example, Jill willingly gives Clive Shiva in an intimate and beautiful act juxtaposed by Ultima’s assaultive way of ripping Garuda painfully from Benedikta through Clive.
In fact, Jill is an incredibly powerful character throughout and a beautiful example of sacrificial love. She gives everything to Clive. Willingly. Ultima is concerned only with self preservation. He’s willing to sacrifice everything and everyone against their will for himself. Clive sacrifices himself - his status, his power and ultimately his life - for freedom. Without Clive’s death, the message becomes, “F*** the world, ima do things my way!” What we have instead is a much richer, nuanced, philosophical and mature dissection of love and morality: Free will is a powerful gift, for what principal will you use it? What do you serve?
@Jimmer-jammer I don't fault anything you said as obviously your interpretation doesn't have to be like mine, but I never took the final mission as being anything but trying to defeat Ultima and then trying to make the best of the world they would have left and then someday generations down the line it would finally be what was hoped. Obviously they didn't know what was going to happen after defeating Ultima for sure, so things could have ended up better than they thought, but not once did I ever think Clive was going there even remotely thinking to sacrifice himself. Which in turns means that's not what the player would expect either. If I recall correctly, Clive even promised Jill that he would come back. Any reference to him not coming back would have been mostly jokingly, like with Gav.
Obviously it's always possible Clive would have lost, but that was the only scenario I imagined him not coming back to Jill and the rest of the Hideaway that he spent dozens of game hours building deep relationships with. Sure, it would make his death a lot more meaningful, but his death is a major problem for me and plenty of other people online. Again, I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but I can say without a doubt that his sacrifice and death came completely out of left field and could have been handled much differently. If there was any real hint that he was going up there to do that, then ok. Once again, that was not his mission, and I blame it on unfortunate shoddy late game storytelling in an otherwise very well written game. Don't write one thing leading up to the sacrifice and then have him go way further and sacrifice himself.
PSN ID/Xbox Live Gamertag: KilloWertz
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@KilloWertz Oh yeah, hopefully nothing I’ve written is taken as anything more than my personal interpretation. That’s the beauty of art! 😄 I think the fact that folks can glean something different but equally meaningful to them from the same source is pretty cool.
I felt that Clive’s potential death was alluded to many times, particularly by Gav and of course Jill.
I’ll likely stew on this for a while longer. I’ve been picking up a lot more in my new game+ play through but these are my thoughts thus far.
“Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.” C.S. Lewis
@Jimmer-jammerThey were concerned obviously since Ultima could have won, but there's a difference between that and Clive ever acknowledging that he would ever possibly sacrifice himself. Unless I'm missing something, that was never the plan. He would talk like he was going to come back as long as he won.
PSN ID/Xbox Live Gamertag: KilloWertz
Switch Friend Code: SW-6448-2688-7386
@KilloWertzYeah, I definitely agree with you that he never went into origin with the explicit intent of sacrificing himself. I believe he made the decision once he realized that he, as the corrupted Logos, could not contain the power of the Eikons. More importantly, he realized that, until magic was completely wiped from the human experience, there would forever be war and suffering.
Ultima worked behind the scenes, corrupting people and manipulating events in order to bring Clive into conflict with whom Ultima desired in order for Clive to fulfill his role as Mythos. After the spiritual threat is eliminated, it becomes clear to Clive that free will is not free from consequence. This point is driven home in the game as Clive claims humanity’s struggles as part of the beauty of life. Still, he sees this as the only way for a true fresh start. As the opening line of the game states, “It was Moss the chronicler who said that the land of Valisthea is blessed in the light of the Mothercrystals and that it was this light which finally led our forbears out of the darkness. Yet what they saw in the light gave rise to temptation. Temptation that ever leads us back into the crystals shadow.”
@Jimmer-jammerBut that is my continued problem with the ending. I may be wrong that him surviving would have been a better ending, but there was going to be problems with the world and life even after defeating Ultima and he acknowledged that. He never said they needed a fresh start.
Other than to go with an emotional ending where the main character dies for the second mainline game in a row, I think they could have very easily gone with the ending the story sets up going into Origin. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but it is a flawed endgame no matter what.
@KilloWertz I do believe we have a situation in which the very thing that pulls everything together for me is the very thing that blows it all apart for you 😂
The one issue I have had throughout is the clash between themes and mechanics in that, so much effort is put into the importance of free will yada yada…but what do we as the player do throughout the entire game? Break every enemy’s will. It’s bothered me for a while but hasn’t been enough to wreck the game for me.
“Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.” C.S. Lewis
@Jimmer-jammer Pretty much it seems, and I think we'll just leave it at that. Otherwise we'd just be spinning our wheels.
I did love the game up until the ending, but unfortunately at the same time I did hate the ending enough to have it do real damage to my opinion of the game as a whole. A real shame, as it would have given Spider-Man 2 a real run for it's money, but it is what it is I guess.
But they are bad, so they don't deserve free will. lol
PSN ID/Xbox Live Gamertag: KilloWertz
Switch Friend Code: SW-6448-2688-7386
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