Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

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@BlAcK_Sw0rDsMaN I haven't posted much recently. I have been focusing on personal development in terms of a career in Counselling Psychology,

• That's honestly brilliant, mental health is one of the most important professions I know of. It's the one thing that affects everyone from all walks of life and something I'm constantly grateful to have help with. You might not realize it now but you have the potential to change a lot of lives for the better.

I also found out that a lot of secret same-sex activity goes on between some male rappers at parties according to something that popped up in my hip hop feed, and

• I'll give a big disclaimer. Homosexual activity between men is something that's been hidden from me my whole life. People fled Russia because of how dangerous it is to be different. Meanwhile I've always been told it's okay for me to have girlfriends as long as I have a man too, a hyper-masculine man, which luckily is my preference. I've never been a bigot, I believe love isn't mine to judge.

Metal went through hyper-masculinity too. No one was gay they were 'men', the public image was raw and powerful. Meanwhile they were engaging in same sex activity frequently. I think the situation was a product of the time, of public perception, of how Metal was being marketed, and of how it was being perceived by the fans. It's always been a Boys club, men literally beating their chests, but they aren't bigots. Nor is a pit a place of violence, it's to burn off energy, there's nothing but mutual respect there.

Marketing can make or break lives. It pressures a person to conform to a public persona and once that image is created it's very hard to break it. It's different for women. It's seen as healthy evolution when they play with gender, sexuality and image. Men can't do that. They get locked into stereotypes.

I liked Metal for a couple of different reasons but I'll also admit that I thought that imagine of Superior masculinity and submissive femininity was a genuine part of the music. It wasn't, it was marketing and groupie culture. Now I'm aware of female fronted bands like Arch Enemy, Otep and Within Temptation, the imagery is different, the message too. Those earlier days of Metal provided a kind of constant pressure for musicians to hide their homosexuality and I think in a way they still do.

With rap and hip-hop it's different and I have to be really careful with my words here. Yes Elites do brush up against the entertainment industry, I wanted an open-door to Metal and was given it, the same with every other genre, film was no exception. Both music and film have another side, with film it's a free for all, I didn't like it, I like rules, they had none. With music it's often genre specific.

With Metal it was all Dads who dearly loved their wives and their children, they were there to earn. I believe the music itself was created to empower and to give outsiders some form of commonality, it crossed the class divide for me when nothing else could. I didn't understand the words, I felt them.

Rock was different, I quickly went off of some of my favorite bands overnight. In my eyes they weren't very nice people, CDs regularly went out a window. I saw things I'll never talk about, the same for film. My day to day and night to night is centered around structured debauchery. I'm Libertine in my views and very old world but I was given protocols, rules, regulations and I don't bend or break them for anyone or anything.

What I saw in the music industry was a complete disregard for any kind of structure. People did what they wanted to who they wanted, when they wanted, which I agree with but only under consent. It's how I live my life. I saw their behavior as living in the now, but I was wrong. Now I see it as exploitive. I don't know what I saw at most of those after/wrap-parties, some of it was harmless. Other times I left trying to piece together what the fudge all of that even was about. At the time I was with my ex girlfriend and she was all about people, she liked that scene and I didn't.

I can think of one rapper I did meet in the past who I did know, it was related to a music-video. There was somewhat of a wrap-party, what you described would apply there. It's only hard for me to talk about because it was two or more men and my thinking at the time clashed with what I'd been raised to believe. It caused a lot of confusion and I never told anyone, certainly not my Partner of the time. I didn't see myself as a bigot, each time I tried to understand it I'd feel a kind of 'because it's wrong' in the back of my mind. I can apply that same feeling to propaganda, it's gets into my head and replays. In hindsight I look at it as perhaps they'd been under pressure to hold up that public image and then behind the scenes they let loose.

If you know what Drill is? I've been around a lot of those artists, mainly Albanians and Russians. They mix with a lot of London and UK based Drill artists and quite a few are of colour (if that's the right term) Drill is absolutely hyper-masculinity which is why I'm comfortable with it. It conforms to a kind of image that I was given, while to others it's extreme and violent. Perhaps, but so is the world in my eyes.

Drill is an off-shoot of rap and hip-hop, one I see as a kind of time capsule. The world changed, the message stayed the same. It's that mentality of having something to prove, to push the boundaries, to display loyalty, and it objectifies women, especially Eastern European Drill and Balkans Drill. Our culture is hyper-masculinity, the men in my world literally Own women, they still play Wild Wild East. Rap and Hip-hop tells a story too, lives were lost, lines crossed, their music chronicled this and I believe that atmosphere would put pressure on any young male who was different to hide their true preferences. Until perhaps they made it so far out of their neighborhood and had that discretion.

in their off-camera lives, probably quite different to the public personas they portray

• In my experience every musician, actor and Other that I've encountered are not at all like their public persona. Social media and an always online public persona means people need to embrace secrecy to breath. London is no exception, everything is private, our clubs, restaurants. It's the only alternative for people who do want some taste of normality away from public opinion. People are often quietly pointed out to me when we're out, I don't know them because modern trends, TV, even the internet, just aren't something that enters my life. I heard we eat babies and drink adrenochrome, that's the danger with the internet and why I avoid it. Unless I see something in person I reserve full and total judgement. And of course I'm decades out of the loop when it comes to Westernization. I can name a couple of rappers like 50 Cent, Xibit, Ice Cube, obviously Tupac, then it gets blurry. I know of far more UK rappers. I'm listening to rap right now but Russian so you wouldn't know him and so current that it's three days old.

I think Paris Fashion Week is a perfect example of what I mean and it was recent too, I went because my girlfriend wanted to go, I wanted to stay home and work on my platinum. She pointed out rappers, I still don't know who, I recognized only one actress. She does like to mingle and likes her modern Western artists, most of who I don't know. I did my usual 'I'm a Communist' whenever asked a question and people left me alone, I'm not, but people don't know how to answer.

I like my peace and quiet, I see inner calm as a luxury and I don't think excess can be balanced. I started listening to rap as a way to bridge classes. I liked learning about the lives of young men who struggled and made it. For me it was about the journey, not where they are now. I don't think excess earned overnight is healthy. When you are born into the life you are given rules and balance, if not people go off the rails and coke their minds out until they hurt themselves or others, or both.

In a way excess can become a kind of prison. One where sexuality has to be hidden to protect one's image. I've never had to hide mine, sexuality was always highly encouraged and still is. I feel bad for anyone who has to hide that part of themselves especially in that industry. Women don't, not at all, it's what you see is what you get. If in theory I was at a party and someone said 'people need to leave, unless they want to stay for the second half of the night', I understand the meaning. The public might see that as suspicious. I see it as something else, but only because I understand the pressure some of those people are constantly under and in my eyes if it's consensual, they earned their play time. I draw the line with cheaters, I don't embrace monogamy but I'm not blind to cheaters either and I really don't like that attitude. If they like men then fine, if they like like women then fine, if they like both at once then fine. If they have a wife or husband at home who doesn't know? That's when I see it as wrong.

It's a very particular perspective, one that's rarely changed. Music for me was always about the lyrics and the sound, there was a disconnect between sound and image. The music I liked was smuggled in by a friend, I wasn't allowed to have it. I didn't see music videos. I think it gave me a system of being able to separate the person from their art, which maybe is a good thing.

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@BlAcK_Sw0rDsMaN I thought that your post was very insightful, I had no idea that things were so different for women "in the industry" as compared to the men, in terms of same sex relationships/activities. It sounds like you have been around when these things have taken place at parties/afterparties, and have some insider knowledge, despite not participating yourself, as you said. So yeah, in summary, I think I agree with what you said about separating the art from the artist, overall.

• Thank you and you are welcome. It really boils down to stereotype and image. Some of the worst people I met in the industry worked in PR (entertainment lawyers are the second worst) They talked about artists like they were property, something owned by the label and not capable of free thinking. Which bothered me on a personal level. That and they dropped names all day long, they weren't care-takers and they weren't there to help those people. They have a responsibility to other humans, I never saw that happen. PR crosses genres too, they'll handle multiple rosters including rap and hip-hop.

From the outside it looks like musicians and young artists are in control of their destiny and of their image. I can relate because I don't control my own finances, my own image, none of it but that's by choice. When he lays out an outfit for the day I know it's coming from a place of trust. If a label or manager pushes a product or image onto an artist it's because they are selling that person. The arrangement exists because the circumstance exists. They did earn what they have, earning it and managing it are two different things. Labels can hold that over an artist, they can remind them that 'you are on our pay roll' and that's true, the public see one side, they don't see the percentage. I think the higher a lot of people go in that situation the more they do lose control of their individuality and especially their image. The image is what sells and labels know this well, if an artist did come forward and say something in confidence and it did involve their preferences they'd be told to keep it to themselves. They'd be ruining their career, that's the thinking.

I said it's different for women because the demographic is different, they get marketed to a gender that isn't pressured to hide their true feelings and I've said it before, young men don't express their feelings, it's seen as weak, which I think is extremely dangerous. Female artists can market their emotions (Taylor Swift) and they can market that sexuality (Sabrina Carpenter) that kind of evolution is almost expected now, and it sells. She can switch between 'phases' like it were an outfit. They can play with femininity and masculinity. She won't be judged, she'll be celebrated, sexism perhaps? It can't be done with a young rapper who spent so many years giving his all for his music, he can only go one way and that's hyper-masculinity. So much of the music is being bought by so many similar young men who listen because they see something of themselves in the music. I can't relate when I listen to rap, they struggled, they survived. I can learn from it and nothing else. I think the biggest change when it comes to gender and sexuality in the industry is streaming. If you control that medium of distribution you control your own image.

It sounds like you have been around when these things have taken place at parties/afterparties, and have some insider knowledge, despite not participating yourself, as you said. So yeah, in summary, I think I agree with what you said about separating the art from the artist, overall.

• I like the music but have mixed feelings about the industry. My feelings about the film industry aren't mixed, I know where I stand there. I think with rap it might be even harder to separate the person from the art. Katy Perry can sing about doing her thing with an alien, it's just fantasy. If a rapper sings about losing a friend due to violence, experiencing poverty, moving a certain substance to pay for studio time? They did those things, they experienced it so it becomes part of their personality too, not just their life story. It's a hard image, rough and very masculine. If suddenly their life story changed to include a boyfriend or husband? That hard image would be threatened. I don't understand why people see gay people as softer than most, I think it's a stereotype. I see bravery and honesty, people die for their honesty in some countries. I can't even use the word gay offline, or war, that's life.

I see separation from the job like this: If you go to a bank today and see your bank manager. You'll see them as their job, their position. I'll go out tonight and I'll see that person in a completely different light, very dimmed light but I'll see it. People have to go to extreme lengths sometimes to indulge in how they truly feel inside. I don't, nor do my Circle, we just brush up against that more closed off one because we inhabit a similar ecosystem. We both operate in discretion and under nocturnal cover but we have anonymity and they don't. Unless you include a mask, I won't got there. I prefer quiet observation, I see a lot even in that dim light but underneath it all I just see people being people.