Gamers Bombard PlayStation Executives with Used Game Pleas for PS4

If they were planning to block used games, then Microsoft's reveal saved them. They wouldn't dare announce anything that would jeopardize the kind of roll they've been on this year.

Now that I think about it - didn't Yoshida say that Sony never considered blocking used games?

The Wii U is looking more and more appealing lately. Please Sony, PLEASE don't pull a Microsoft, be the better company, don't charge for every lil' thing like Microsoft does. I won't buy a console if you charge a fee for used games, plain and simple.

I buy all my games new, so on that side of it this won't affect me.

Where it will affect me is that I sell my used games, either through Play.com or eBay. I don't trade them in at retail because, frankly, their offers are usually insulting.

I have no problem at all with developers wanting a slice of the pre-owned pie; in fact, I'm in favour of it. But you've got to allow fair use - gamers must be able to take a physical game to a friend's house to play for no extra charge.

If Sony can implement such a scheme on PS4, they could win yet more favour from gamers.

Even if they follow Microsoft's scheme to the letter, it won't stop me buying a PS4. To be honest, the DRM issue wouldn't stop me buying an XBone either... I'm just not interested in it for several other reasons. 

You choose who wins Sony.
Publishers or Gamers which one willl you choose?
Without publishers it will be hard to get the games.
Without gamers its going to be hard to sell those games.
Your turn, your move.

@get2sammyb According to the people on neogaf, it may come down to choice. Will third parties want to block their games or will they allow you to buy and sell them as you please? If that's what it comes down to, then that still puts them in a better position than Microsoft - who seems to blocking all used games.

You're right, a lot of the people who are complaining will still buy an XO. Even with all it's restrictions there are/will be people who get behind it anyway. Brand loyalty is a scary thing sometimes.

I won't be completely mad if they blocked used games. To me there was a boatload of other factors that sunk XO. The unjustified use of backwards compatibility, windows 8 integration, and unflattering use of TV

Help me Sammy-wan, you're my only hope

Why doesn't anybody ever ever never mention rentals when talking about this stuff? Gamefly exists as primarily a game rental company. Redbox rents games all over the US. Right now I don't see any way possible - even if MS and Gamestop split used game sales so technically allowing that system to work - for rentals to work. But no matter how many of these DRM articles I read nobody ever mentions game rentals or the companies that supply them.

As for Sony, they already did away w/ used games - and rentals - once w/ their PSPgo system. Unless somebody on here can tell me they sold or purchased a used PSPgo DL. Any game bought as a DL isn't an issue. Another 5 or 6 years from now, when everything is DL only, none of this will matter. In the meantime, even if Sony doesn't want to lock games to systems, what if EA makes them? Can Sony win a battle w/ EA?

Whose decision was it to lock PC games and kill that used trade market, hardware makers or game makers? I think the answer to that question dictates the consoles future. Also why EA won't ever make a game for WiiU.

I'm not sure people even thought about a fee when they said the PS4 won't block used games, there would be a backlash for a a deceiving appearance if Sony did this. Microsoft had didn't have the appearance of not doing this, Sony has given the appearance with what they've said. They have consoles sales to take away from Mirosoft by being consumer freindly here too.

@LDXD Me too. It's one of the major reasons why PC and console gaming are finished chapters to me as a collector. Shame really.

I tend to buy my games new the vast majority of the time, but if this system prevents me from sharing my games with say, my brother, then it's a real pain in the booty.

If I remember correctly didn't Sony say that they are supporting used games but the ultimate decision comes down to the publisher? If that's the case then Sony's stance is the same as it's always been. Publishers like EA have been doing this for a while but it's not necessarily Sony's call. The difference this time with XBox One is MS is actually supporting and promoting it. So it really doesn't fall on Sony the decision is left to the Publisher.

As long as they don't do something SO RESTRICTIVE that I can't even share games with my own brother, I think I'll be okay. Still, it would definitely be for the best if Sony DIDN'T pull this BS. Publishers might think that getting a cut on used sales is a great idea for Xbox One, but they might sing a different tune when they realize NOBODY'S BUYING.

@Stuffgamer1 Thank you! Oohw this is why i hope the xbox one will fail.

I usually don't buy used unless its an old game, which is one of my main concerns here. What if the only way to get a reasonably priced copy of a game is to buy it used?

The sticky part of this whole thing is that you can't just say "well people will just go to the console thats more consumer-friendly" because if both Sony and Microsoft does it that just leaves Wii U, and for a lot of people it will just become a matter of how many exclusive will it take.

The way I see it the better route for Sony to take is either provide the option and just leave it up the the publisher, or keep pushing digital that way there won't be a used market to worry about and companies like Gamestop can at least sell vouchers.

I can see both sides of the coin, but it all depends on how Sony handles it. Basically, they need to make sensible rules around the whole process, respecting both gamers and publishers. We're not obligated to get anything for free that someone worked hard to make... nor do we buy it with our hard earned money deserve to pay twice, with restrictions.

Charge a "small" fee if you must, to unlock the used game so publishers get something, where they are getting nothing now, and gamers don't feel like we're being way over charged and controlled. Would help if that unlock fee was built into what you pay, when you buy the game at the register. One payment, for game and full unlock, flat fee, no hidden fees crap, you own it... and they have to explain in clear detail what it is, and how it will work at E3.

So stupid...gaming will get ruined because of this....Microsoft were doomed when they had said they were adopting it...no-one will buy "other games" now...as to sell it on you won't get much for it...I wanna go out buy 2nd hand games and play...that's it...I won't be paying twice for a used game...so many games won't sell as much due to this...I don't understand them....don't these guys make enough money from every game sold

This is a Gamestop smothering direction. Also a console industry death rattle. Kill used games, then Gamestop/Eb games becomes basically useless. A used game fee basically takes the profit out of selling used because to have a competitive advantage you'll need to sell too low. We see this already with online passes to some extent. They have to sell battlefield 3 for $25 because
of the cost of the online pass that must be tacked on and factored in.

Developers can hoot and holler all they want, but for now, protect retail at all costs.

So complex to summarize in a comment, but there are countless reasons.

The wiiU is not an option for me. If this is implemented on the playstation I will still get one. The exclusives are just that good and I rarely pay full price for a game.

@get2sammyb @TheRealBatman

Won't Sony benefit either way even more if they decide to go the anti consumer route. I mean if they don't decide to DRM used games than they have a marketing advantage against Microsoft but I haven't heard much complaining from the non hardcore about this. I'm would guess most consumers wouldn't care as long as it isn't blocking used games.

As described by Eurogamer this would mean that Sony would own their segment of the used game Market and would profit off of both used and new games.

As a company wouldn't that make more sense than to listen to people complaining who will buy the system either way. I mean the only oter alternatives are a system with no support and another console who would be doing the exact same thing

Sony and Microsoft faced heavy losses most off this generation so I would assume they would do everything they could to gain money before the consoles themselves reach profit per unit sold. Owning the used game Market would do this in spades later next year as more than early adopters go to purchase the systems.

I really hope Sony doesn't adopt an anti-consumer stance, and leaving the decision to the publisher is the same freaking thing MS is doing Sony is just going 'it's not us, it's them' stance to try and save face. I'm already disgusted with MS for caving to the likes of the scum at EA, if Sony goes the same route I guess I'll just skip this gen and wait for a crash of the industry since apparently that's the only thing that will wake these idiots up. I may have no interest in the Wii U but I applaud the Nintendo execs for their pro-consumer stance and telling the likes of EA (a company that only produces trash these days anyway) to piss off. I know M$ can't be counted on, not with pieces of human feces like Phil Spencer and Don Mattrick calling the shots, but I would expect better from Sony.

Yes I am against it. Why on earth should Microsoft profit from on-sold games?? It's like the example of a car manufacturer, say, Toyota demanding payment for owners of 2nd hand Toyota's, after they've bought a car from a generic car dealership saying..."Sorry, you have to pay us a cut if you want to drive that thing!" It's absurd and extremely greedy. This whole thing has mainly been driven by EA though it seems. The shady lurker in the background..

Unfortunately, I get the impression Sony are going to try and weasel their way out of this by saying "WE won't impose any DRM, but if publishers want to that's there choice..." So of course EA, Ubisoft and Activision will, then the others will get on board. So that stance doesn't cut it. Sony need to definatively come out and say, "we will not allow any DRM restricting used game sales on our platform...we will not allow publishers to impose fees for used games".

@doctor_doak
The problem with that analogy is that a Toyota is unlikely to go throught more than a few transactions, while one particular copy of a game could trade hands dozens of times.

What really bugs me about these sort of situations is its the consumers that get the short end of the stick. They're afraid to go after big retailers like Gamestop despite their claims against them so they direct their efforts towards us.

@Zombie_Barioth

I don't know about you, but one of the main reasons I got into gaming in the first place was through shareware games on pc....and also through 'trading' amongst buddies with what few games I owned. Most kids don't come from wealthy families that have parents who buy them whatever they want, so getting into gaming as a kid can often be prohibitively expensive...to the point I don't know whether i'd even be a gamer if I didn't get the opportunity to play a variety of different games through trading with friends at school. The ability to purchase adiscounted 'used copy' performs much the same function as 'trading' games did, in that it provides an entry point for kids getting into gaming, as well as people who don't have much disposable income. They're not thinking of the big picture...

At the end of the day, studios and publishers are going bust due to mismanagement, unrealistic expectations and reckless risk taking. Take Tomb Raider for instance... it sold 3.5 million copies and is considered by Square Enix to be a commercial failure. That just does my head in. I mean, they spent $100 million on a game that wasn't a commercially successful franchise in the 1st place, and SE are disappointed they didn't balance the books. This way of doing things just isn't sustainable. Publishers need to start 'spreading the risk' of their investments instead of betting the house on a longshot everytime.. The Witcher 2 is just about the best and most visually impressive game i've played this gen and it cost $12 million to make. That's 8 games of Witcher 2 quality SE could've funded instead of Tomb Raider. These people are just shifting the burden of their own ineptitude onto retailers and consumers when they get up on their soapboxes and complain about used games...

What Microsoft, EA and other big publishers are effectively doing is shutting out future generations from the hobby of gaming by erecting ever steeper barriers to entry. I don't know how much i've spent on gaming to date, but it'd would be in the thousands of dollars region.

The thing is, Microsoft and EA 'are' going after Gamestop and the retail industry. That's the whole point... This fee on used sales will kill them off. Their bread and butter is used games, but if Microsoft are demanding a sizeable cut of whatever Gamestop charges I have no idea how it would be even feasible for Gamestop to sell used games.

@doctor_doak
Don't get me worng, I'm not against used games. Actually, I completely agree with you. I only meant the car analogy was a bit off, something like clothes or movies would have been a better fit.

What I meant by "going after" Gamestop was rather than try to come to an agreement with them, they turn their attention to us. However, I don't think the used game fee will kill off Gamestop, it seems to me that its an attempt to just force them out of the used game business by forcing us to buy new (or just wait until the price drops enough).

@doctor_doak

I think the real problem is consumers, in particular, dipsh*t North American consumers. If people in this moronic country could be counted on to do the right thing, Sony could take the hardline stance, and when developers see Xbox One sales going nowhere they'd have no choice but to go back to PlayStation and they'd have to come back doing whatever possible to get in the good graces of gamers again. Unfortunately people over here would see Xbox One getting GTA, Xbox One getting Madden, Assassin's Creed, etc and just cave and buy the piece of garbage eventhough it benefits nobody. The thinking over here is always what's hot right now, short term, nobody ever looks at the big picture. And while North America doesn't equal the world, it's unfortunately too large a market to ignore. I wish Sony would do the right thing and take a risk on consumers doing the right thing, but history has unfortunately proven the latter almost never happens and Sony knows it. People were wondering a few days ago in the forum what Sony's big mistake with PS4 would be. Well, this is it, just like MS, this company has sold its soul to the devil itself, EA, the company which I absolutely believe is the driving force behind this. I hate to think it, but it's very possibly the only thing that can save gaming now is if the industry crashes and crashes hard and in the process hopefully it clears out the scum that is EA with it. No gaming company is perfect but the one constant with bad story after bad story is EA, it needs to f'ing go already and if a crash is the only way for it to happen, so be it.

@Zombie_Barioth

Whether it's intentional or not, I think the strategy has the potential to cripple retailers like Gamestop, because they don't make any money from new games and consoles..it's mostly from used sales.

@Gamer83

I think it will sell very well in North America. It's not being pitched to a particularly savvy segment of the US population for sure. I'm Australian and it was kind of bewildering watching the presentation, and how utterly focused it was on the US market...but not even American gamers. It was 30-something male sports fans??! It was as if Microsoft believed that no-one from outside the US actually bought an XBox360 this gen.

I'm definately pretty pessimistic as to where the AAA gaming industry's headed in general, and it will be interesting to see what Sony have to say on these things. At the moment, I really feel like just sticking to pc gaming and supporting publishers who release DRM free games, and who actually listen to what their supporters want. There's tons of great DRM free games on PC and more coming with the whole kickstarter thing. The best way to get the message through to publishers like EA is to just stop buying their games. It's that simple. For me it's not hard, because I don't want any of their games...except maybe Mirror's Edge 2. Hopefully, Sony give us a more palatable alternative to Microsoft's Orwellian walled garden. I think it will be better, but by how much is another issue.

This is a MASSIVE opportunity for Sony. People will dump their Xboxes over this without hesitation.

You really think developers are going to black ball the highest selling system? You don't cut off your own nose to spite your face.

@doctor_doak
They make money off of game sales, just not nearly as much as they'd make off of used games. Granted its probably not a lot but they wouldn't stock something that wasn't profitable and what little they do make adds up.

The issue with taking a "don't buy it" approach is that the publishers might not see it for what it is, they might assume their game just doesn't sell anymore and give it the axe. Just look at whats happening with Capcom and Ace Attorney 5. What @Gamer83 said also holds true here.Your better off just avoiding the games with shady practices until the sales don't matter to them anymore, which is usually a few weeks after launch.

Really though, I don't blame you for being pessimistic one bit. I actually feel the same way myself.

companies are idiotic if they think DRM will help there sales.........it won't in fact they will lose even MORE money. People won't want to buy a game because they won't be able to try it from a friend, customers will restrict to purchases to products they know are going to deliver, so all those games that you may have loved that have cult followings.....say goodbye no one would take a risk to buy a game they are going to get screwed over on.

Sales are going to go down as a whole forget the whole used part alone, new game sales would drop because consumers won't risk buying a product they possibly could end up being stuck with.

At the most I would not have an issue with say a Ten dollar fee to unlock a multiplayer features of a used game but ten at the absolute most because with the cost of the used game still being pretty high plus a fee it would still be cheaper to buy used but only by five or ten dollars and for some people that is enough but for me I would rather buy new and support the Devs.

Sony SHOULD allow third parties to charge. Lets be honest, like it or not there's a 99.9% chance it's happening. The silence from Sony about this is deafening. It's more than likely the third party companies who are forcing this than Microsoft (the reason EA fell out with Nintendo, perhaps?) so let them do it. And then let them realise what a stupid idea it is the hard way when their sales take a hit. Sony should NOT charge for their own games though. They have better first party games than Microsoft which should swing in their favour. If Sony charge for all games though I can see a bloodbath and will be putting a cheeky fiver on Nintendo to win the next gen war.

@rastamadeus

It's just mind boggling to me how these companies (mainly EA) can be forcing both MS and Sony to do anything. If both took the same stance as Nintendo where else do the third parties turn? There isn't another console, Sega isn't coming back, the only other viable option right now is PC and sales on that system alone while maybe decent just wouldn't cut it in the end. The shareholders would see stuff like Madden not selling close to what it did on just PS3 alone and the company would have to change course. EA was the driving force, but M$ and $ony carried the plan out, so in a way they're worse. I'd hope Nintendo would benefit in the end but the problem is the dumba$$ North American market is still pretty important and it's possible that while we're seeing outrage right now that could all change when Halo 5, Gears 4 and the first true next-gen CoD hit.

Therein lies the main problem. If all this * IS * true (and we don't know it 100% yet) then the majority of people who are "outraged" and promise not to buy the systems will go and buy them anyway

@rastamadeus

Well, I mean lets be honest, it's 100% true, we're just waiting for E3 to see if one of these dumb companies can layout some kind of plan for this idea that makes some bit of sense. I don't think they can but I hope Sony proves me wrong because I would like to buy PS4. In the mean time I'm wondering if it's not best if I just avoid articles like these until we get to E3 because all this talk is killing my anticipation not just for the new consoles but my passion for gaming as a whole.

@get2sammyb If Sony does go down the route of DRM here is what I propose they do:

1.) The "new" game should be tethered to your account and your console. This allows you to play it on any console and permits other accounts on that console access to play it on the tethered console.

2.) Should you bring your game disc to a friends house odds are that they are on friends lists on your PSN account, meaning any friend you have on your friend's list can play the game, like if you lend it to them etc. ( this is only for physical copies of the games, game discs, not digital downloads) Optional For digital downloads you allow access to 3~5 people on your friends access to your game if you are to download it on their console( this could also can also be timed like 1~2 hours of playing time)

3.) The fee for a used game pass( unlimited access to the game for however long you own, only if purchased before you own it and rules 1, 2, and 4 don't apply to you) should be at 5 bucks (yup microtransactions). This gives people the idea, "...ehhh it only 5 bucks it won't hurt....", the thought process that it is inexpensive to buy games used still because of a 5 dollar increase (the jump from 20 dollars to 25 isn't gonna break the bank in the minds of the parents and gamers alike) Optional Ten dollars is the maximum this can go to, anymore and it is looked at like money grubbing.

4.) If you are a PS Plus Member, you are completely exempted from the used game pass fee. PS Plus are already paying a monthly subscription to Sony for a premium service add this to the service. It will increase the number of PS Plus memberships while showing off the increased benefits of being a PS Plus member, 10%~75% off games free timed trials of first-party games, and free game downloads. In the long run this would be something people look forward to getting to get rid of used passes and get extra bonuses on the side ( aka tight waded parents and gamers). Optional When PS plus service runs out on an account the used game fee could be brought up for the last used game bought.

These are my original suggestions, please comment if you have anything you like or dislike about it (other than the length of it).