Soapbox: Why PS4's Indie Influx Isn't as Bad as You Think

Picked up bastion in the last sale and I'm enjoying it so far! Indies can definitely be fun sometimes. I just think at this point in plus' lifespan, there should be a better variety of aaa and indies. Even one aaa game on ps4 every other month.

There are some excellent indies about, but there's some utter pony as well.
I've been meaning to mop up the side missions on Witcher 3 and Batman, but can't tear myself off Binding of Issac. Same with Velocity 2x. I need to go finish that, but I can't stop once I start.
That and they take up about one 10th the space of the likes of Wolfenstein (which is still miles ahead of most shooters).

Am I the only one who finds Jonathan Blow really creepy though?

@adf86 I'm sort of avoiding anything about the Witness. I had no idea what Braid was until I played it, and it was much more enjoyable as a result.

To be honest, I typically find it to be the other way around. There are some exceptions, but generally indie games coast by on lazily using 2D graphics to appeal to nostalgia amongst an audience who weren't even born when the SNES came out. In Limbo you're doing exactly the same thing you've done in hundreds of other games, Rogue Legacy is completely generic other than its roguelite mechanics but those mechanics themselves have been done in literally hundreds of roguelike/roguelites and the general gameplay still boils down to the uber-generic "hit enemies until they die".

By contrast, I've never quite had an experience like I did in Black Flag where I could sail the open seas in my customised ship and dock in any of dozens and dozens of island, getting immersed in the larger ones as if they were the game in its entirety. Wind Waker is the closest, but there were actually very few islands and only about three of them had any towns on. Both are very much not indie games. Or I could go and play another 2D platformer with retro graphics made by someone whose first console was an Xbox.

Even when the gameplay is actually pretty unique, like Braid, the experience is ruined by the sophomoric, morose ramblings of a bland person about how he can't get laid, like I'm reading an 15-year-old art student's diary. And even then, while the gameplay is unique in its time manipulation, you're still a little cartoon character jumping on little cartoon heads. The same thing you've done 1000 times since you were a kid. Maybe "unique" is too strong a word; isn't it basically just Blinx but with awful, maudlin journal entries?

No Mans Sky, The vanishing of Ethan Carter, Everybodys gone to the rapture, The Talos Principle, Rime, Wild, Tomorrow Children, Submerged, The Witness, the list goes on and on and on of fantastic indie/digital games to play now/soon on PS4. I already own most of Augusts lineup, which tells you how good I think it is! I love these "smaller" titles. Alongside AAA games. I wouldnt want just AAA anymore than I would want just indie/digital. The blend is perfect for me and the ps plus offerings are just fine. Although I would like to see hand of fate added.

But lets not forget they have added Driveclub, which as it now stands is the best racer on any console. Not best sim you'll notice, but best racer. Most fun driving game. And joint winner of the "Best photo mode" competition (with Infamous) that Imliterally just ran in my head.

Great Article.

To me, games are games. Just like music is music and film is film. If a game has some enjoyment value it shouldn't matter if it's indie or not. I'm pretty sure the point of a game is to enjoy and experience it. So what if it was made by an esteemed developer or a team or 5 buddies? If it turns out to be a good and fun game. That's what matters.

And I'm ok with the influx of indies. There's some good titles that are satisfying to play and are different enough from AAA games to be somewhat fresh. I understand wanting more bang for your buck, but sometimes it's not worth missing out on something you could enjoy.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the chances of an "Indie" being more original.
Many, MANY Indie games have taken a tried and tested forumla done many times over.
And that should absolutely be criticised as it does routinely in the bigger budget titles.
Being small doesnt exempt you from that.

I have found seeing the exact same gametype or art style time and again is what puts me off.
And if theres nothing in a trailer or short gameplay video to capture me then Im not trying it.
Im exactly the same with films, books, tv shows etc.

Indies are certainly not the best, or worst, place for innovation, but you can bet your bottom dollar if an Indie tries something crazy that fails, itll just be written off as a bit of bad luck but ambitious.
The monent a big triple a dev does that exact same thing, its suddenly a travesty, the company a joke, terrible and so on.
And that double standard has no place in gaming.

Every single Indie game Ive tried without any prior interest Ive flat out not enjoyed.

Interesting article @Anchorsam_9, enjoyed the read. I think indies provide a nice alternative to bigger budget titles sometimes, and it's always nice to have variety.

As much as i enjoy games from the indie as well as AAA sides of the coin, I have to concede that the idea that Indies take risks coz they have to, is a little blinkered.

I enjoyed the likes of Valiant Hearts and Unfinished Swan, and they had some innovation in them, but ultimately, you cannot re-invent the wheel, expecting it to be better.

Games have hit a bit of a plateau in terms of what you can do, but the way these are presented to us, is more key to the gaming public's reaction, which explains why the likes of Project Morpheus and even the godawful Hololense get people's attention.

It also explains why a lot of gamers hate this 8-bit style that precedes a lot of indie devved games

I enjoy playing Rogue Legacy (which reminds me of Wonderboy/Ghouls n Ghosts) and The Binding Of Isaac (which reminds me of an old old game called Berserk).

But its not the innovation or risk laden development that attracts me to them, its simply because they are fun and enjoyable to play. No matter if a £1 or £10 million has been spent...

Most of the big games on the PS4 hold no interest for me. I only got the PS4 for Batman Arkham Knight really. I do like the indie scene though. There are some really fun games out there if you don't just focus on the big budget games. Some of them are even made better too.

@Anchorsam_9
Nice read! I agree on most of what you said, but I would also like to see an article written bout how the "Indie scene" is destroying their own product, because too much of the same games are getting made and lots of them are really bad. Indie games in general start to feel like the developing equivalent of IKEA: all of the same ideas, artwork and engines are used to follow the "indie template" and this makes it even harder to stand out.

And focussing on Sony and their relationship with indies alone I think the free games with Plus are not just an incredible way to play games you normally wouldn't, I'm getting the feeling more and more often lately that Plus is actually harming Indies in a way. The perceived value of Plus is way less than it was 2 years ago and back then it was our own choice whether we subscribed. Now they're more or less forcing us, people start to expect more out of it but they feel they are getting less by giving them 2 indie games each month. And because of this. people just refuse to give some perfectly solid games a try that they otherwise might have picked up if marketed right by Sony by putting the best Indies in the spotlight and giving some discounts.

And then there is that bit where people tend to appreciate games more when they bought it themselves, than if it was giving to them for free. I believe this has moved Sony to consider letting us vote for our freebies, so we are invested in a way. If you'd make a list of all free downloaded Plus games with their respective "minutes played per user" (total time played / total times downloaded) I think you're in for a really unpleasant surprise!

@ztpayne7 I agree with you totally, PS plus can give me all the indies I want but it's gotta please everyone. The new voting system will definitely improve it

@Johnnycide I know what you mean, there's something about him, probably that he seems too quiet and reserved

There's enough good AAA's now that this big budget vs. indie shouldn't even be a discussion anymore. The only problem I've seen from talking to friends in the real is that people want the AAA games in the IGC as well, and if not as soon as they release, at least within a month or two, which is simply not realistic. I wish more AAAs would hit the IGC also but it's not going to happen until PS4 has been on the market at least 3 full years and they can start going back to older games.

@Matroska First of all, I agree with you completely about how good Black Flag is: by far the best Assassin's Creed game, even the best pirate game.

I can see where you're coming from with the whole "2d graphics slapped on a platformer" argument: I remember there was one game called Woah Dave! that was literally the most basic platformer with extremely basic graphics. The indie market is full of these 2D platformers that are the reason there's a little stigma whenever Indies appear on the PS plus lineup

@Barrybarfly When it comes to games, variety is always key, so it's nice to have mix of both

@get2sammyb Yeah, I have plenty of PS2 games lying around that would undoubtedly by classed as indies if they released today!

About the 2d platformer thing: I totally agree - the PS Plus IGC has only really given out indie platformers such as Rogue Legacy, Apotheon, Towerfall etc. All games that I love, but can get stale if you play them all in a row, which is the main reason really why people are asking for AAAs in the lineup more. Rocket League has sort of helped fight this, and if games such as Nidhogg and other indie games of different genres were put on the IGC, more people would probably be on board with it. Still, everyone has an opinion

Personally I find Indie/Arcade games to be very retro rather than pushing boundaries or being creative. Granted its difficult to come up with something truly original - after all movies struggle here too however the story, action etc carries them through. AAA game may not necessarily be that innovative either but again have story, action or gameplay wrapped up in some glorious visual presentation. I know there are a lot of franchises too but even here they take what came before and add 'something' new - be it a new story or game play mechanic.
Most of the indies don't have a story and those that do are quite weak - a basic premise at most.I can't deny that some appear to have made an effort on the visual presentation but a lot look very dated and the game play itself does too. I think Facebook and game sites on the internet has better games than the majority of Indie releases and I can play those for free!
In all honesty I have seen more creative games in Project Spark!
In terms of costs, I wouldn't pay for them myself and wouldn't download most when they are free. I can't afford to buy all the releases I want but I would rather have 1 AAA game than 10+ Indie/Arcade releases as I get a lot more value, fun and hours of entertainment.
Personally I wouldn't care if they stopped releasing 'indie' games - its definitely a case of quantity of quality where they are concerned. However I know there are people that may have missed the 80's and others who enjoy the retro nature of these and I know I don't have to buy but don't try to tell me they innovative or pushing boundaries when their were games like these out 20+ years ago!

@DerMeister I agree: while there are many AAA games that give you tons of gameplay, such as The Witcher 3, since quite a lot of indies are on the cheap, they can be good value too. Roguelikes can be played through many times, and, more recently, N++ is £15 and gives you hundreds of levels, as well as a level editor and a whole community of people making their own

some of my favorite games are indie, keep em coming sony!

"It's even got to the point where some have started hoping for titles like – choke – Knack to be included, purely for the sake of a boxed game being part of the roster"

Well no you have read the crowd wrong - we have, and I have this on good authority reading the comments on this website for the last 9 months, wanted knack free as it was expected as a launch game that I presume doesn't sell anymore. As for the free games I used to look enviously as the supply of top tier games when ps plus launched and in current times the service has metamorphosed into a good service with cheaper games slapped in most (but not every) months. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as you find hidden gems, but its ultimately a worse offering from what was initially envisaged.

If we ever get another month with tower of guns and never alone again I reckon there could be riots. That was horrendous and no amount of good will can get over the fact tower of guns was an abortion of a game made by a solitary dude using unreal engine 2. And never alone was thought provoking but ultimately a poor platformer.

@Anchorsam_9 whoa Dave is free for everyone all of the time its not an actual part if the lineup games. I think using this game as an example is a poor choice as I have no idea what other games have used the woah Dave template this gen. Rainbow Islands, Mario Bros (the 1v1 battle arena) and bubble bobble back in the 1980s but nothing else springs to mind at all for me. Whoa Dave is also easy to play and hard to master which is the holy grail of gaming.

@Anchorsam_9 Thanks for reading my comment and not just writing it off at first glance. Don't get me wrong, there are indie games I like a lot as well. I've played a hell of a lot of Rocket League since it came out, and I don't like football OR cars. It's gotta be something special if that can win me over instantly.

You also get this odd grey area where something's made by a small studio that are free to do what they want, they're not AAA guys making another FIFA or another Mario or Zelda, just coasting along with momentum that was established decades ago, BUT the game is published by a large company and so it's technically not really indie. For example, Life Is Strange or Bastion.

Telltale games also feel like that, their games are somewhat cheap and clearly made on a relatively low budget (perhaps apart from the voice acting) and they seem to just do whatever they feel like. It's not like we've got 30 seasons of The Walking Dead as we would have if it was Nintendo at the helm and Mario starring. Yet at the same time, they're tied up with enormously popular franchises like Borderlands, The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. Hardly some obscure little thing that politely hopes you might notice it.

I don't care if they're Indies, I just want one decent game on Vita and ps4, Osiris is a slap in the face from Sony and SE, where is Tom Raider? Instead we get Limbo for the second time. Stealth Inc is perfectly reasonable game but its never going to get the majority vaguely excited. There are a lot of decent games out there, I'd just wish they'd give us more like transistor, rogue legacy and apotheon. Limbo was probably already part of a prior cruddy deal, GoW cost them nothing, SE probably begged to get Osiris on PS plus. Throw in a couple more mobile games, done.

I dunno way too many of these indie titles have been buggy and or overwhelmingly simplistic crapfests and I play them for like 20 minutes and just want my time and bandwidth back.

I mean did you guys place entwined or ether one? My nards started aching in boredom.

I think getting any games for free is good deal, I think some ppl have just gotten really spoiled in the past with the big ps3 titles for free when ps+ first came around A lot of the times indie games are really fun and I usually end up enjoying them more then alot of AAA titles anyways.

On another note...@Anchorsam_9 I really want more Crash Bandicoot too

@dellyrascal This is exactly another main reason why I like indies: they aim to be fun. I'm not saying that AAA's don't aim to be fun - many of them are - but indie titles don't aim for realism as much as a AAA would

@ToOGoodOfAPlaya This double standard is a pretty big problem, I have to concede - this is probably because of the fact that indies often have much smaller budgets and smaller prices than AAAs, so people are a little less critical of some indies because of this. This shouldn't be a thing though, I agree

@Boerewors The whole 2d 8-bit plaformer stereotype is sadly true a lot of the time, which puts a lot of people off. Retro graphics and chiptunes only go so far

@Gamer83 I expect at some point this year a launch game will be included - my bet's on either Killzone: Shadow Fall or Need for Speed: Rivals - still, Games with Gold on Xbox got F1 2013 a couple of months ago, so that makes the IGC look much better in comparison

@themcnoisy The main reason I used the Knack example was because, I'm not sure if this still applies, but I'm pretty sure a PS Plus game has to be rated 8 or higher on the store - this could've changed, though. Knack is a pretty bland, mediocre game in my opinion, and there were plenty more launch games that would be better options.
I admit that month was pretty bad, I didn't like either game and Never Alone, while interesting, didn't have enough gameplay to justify the subscription price.
I used Woah Dave! as an example because, though I can see the Mario Bros style, I just thought it was a bit simplistic and repetitive, more of a mobile game (Which is why it was released on VITA) rather than a PS4 game. Still, we all have opinions, so I can see where you're coming from if you liked the game and I didn't

@Matroska Rocket League is something special - it's currently the most downloaded PS Plus game on PS4!
Games such as Life is Strange, which I love, are fun because they're a smaller, more refined focus than Square Enix's other games. Also, developers such as Telltale are pretty much the closest we have to AA developers now, so I'm glad they exist

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi Osiris is a pretty standard game to be honest - almost no difference from Guardian of Light. While I'm not the biggest fan of the Tomb Raider reboot, Sony should've probably chosen that in order to please the subscribers. August doesn't look to be that good of a month - while Limbo is quite good, I can't think of a single person I know who hasn't played it, so it's a bit of a dud in the lineup. Here's hoping for something better in September

@sonicmeerkat I didn't like ETHER (Get it?) of those games, so I agree with you here. Still, was there not one indie game you liked? I admit that they've given us a lot of sidescrollers, but did other indies in different genres appeal to you? Did you try Rocket League, Transistor, OlliOlli2 or The Unfinished Swan?

@hYdeks PS3 often has the better lineup when it comes to AAAs - the only real AAAs PS4 has got are Injustice: Gods Among Us (Yay!) Infamous First Light (Ehhh) and MGS V: Ground Zeroes (Bleh)

And yeah, don't we all want Crash back. #bringbandicootback

GET THAT TRENDING

Great Article. I make it a habit to always try the indie games offered on Plus. They are generally great games. Never judge a book by its cover.

@Anchorsam_9 " but I'm pretty sure a PS Plus game has to be rated 8 or higher on the store" - the condition, for the EU lineup anyway, was that the game had to have a metacritic rating of 70 or higher to be included. I don't know if that's still the case, but it's made kind of moot by games debuting on plus - particularly more divisive ones like last year's Metrico for PS Vita - which may or may not meet the Metacritic 70 requirement when reviews do finally hit.

Overall, really enjoyable article. I do feel like there's a stigma attached to an independent title launching on Plus that isn't always fair; and I'm glad that the service has introduced me to games like Resogun, Don't Starve, Woah Dave!, Mercenary Kings and a list of others about as long as my arm. I understand that they're not to everybody's tastes, sure, but when a title like Rocket League is one of the most well-received Plus titles in the history of the service, I'm obviously not alone in thinking that merely having the option there is a major incentive to at least give them a proper try.

@ToOGoodOfAPlaya. I agree

I guess it all depends on the buyer!
Why did you buy a Ps4? Was it the game line up or the promise of a higher standard. So far the resolution gate debacle has died down but if you weigh this generation indies with last generation with the exception of a few they all look the same minus or plus a few mechanics. This doesn't mean you can't have fun with them but once you play a few you get that [i played them all] feeling.

@Anchorsam_9 Eh Rocket league and olli olli were okay, I've only really liked Apotheon and I guess the HD remakes of odd world. Sometimes I feel like we're being flooded with garbage.

@sonicmeerkat I feel exactly the same.
Since launch, the only games Ive actually enjoyed are Strider and Apotheon.
Dont Starve was ok.
That is ALOT of games that are just not enjoyable for me.
There hasnt been a single action hack and slasher, like Heavenly Sword or DmC (not those specifically just the play style) on the IGC, and a good 50% have been side scrolling retro types, which is the go to play style at the moment.
Bearing in mind I only have one platform, I am not able to benefit from ANY of the other games.
And as Ive said, if it doesnt interest me in a trailer or game footage, it will not interest me by playing it either.

@Matroska What about, instead of sailing the open seas in Assassin's Creed BF, you were flying through a whole galaxy filled with countless planets. Ala No Man's Sky, which too, is an indie game.

@kyleforrester87 @ToOGoodOfAPlaya I just want indie games to be of a better quality than I feel like we're getting, if it's just about settling for what's okay we might as well just play with rocks.

I dont know what people are complaining about I pay $50 a year and get 2-4 games a month that I can play on my PS4 ( 24- 48 games a year for less than the price of a new AAA game). Thats just the PS4!

I dont want Knack I already own it (my kids love it). I dont want Assasins Creed black flag...I own it. I want towerfall, spulunky, and rocket league... Games I probably would never have bought on my own but are excellent and I have sunk countless hours playing.

Why give away a game that if people were interested they probably already own? Most of all stop complaining because each game you get to download cost you $1.05 and thats if you only own a PS4. Plus has paid for itself on my vita alone every year let alone PS3 and PS4.

I've been to many stores that sell products. I have yet to complain if they have something for sale and on the shelf "I DON'T LIKE" I do like Indie games many you can get at a very low cost, play 10 min. or hours! At this point we have plenty of AAA games more than most can even buy. With more every month. I understand some don't like them ok fine just go buy all the AAA games you do want. Leave the Indies to the people that enjoy them.

@JohnKarnes The price of games is also a pretty important factor of me playing more indie games - I live in the UK, and like many other UK and European players, we are massively overcharged for AAA games, so it's nice to be able to buy cheaper games that have more replay value

Oops, remember kids, the games are free so you are not allowed to have a negative opinion about the games or plus.
Remember, you MUST like them!

The point, yet again, has been missed by some.
The issue isnt that the games are Indies, but that they are commonly of a very specific style and gameplay.
Month after month with a few exceptions.
A game being free absolutely does NOT make it worth playibg at all.
Im waiting fir a very specific gametype on plus, a stylish action slasher like Devil May Cry, which absolutely could be done, but as yet hasnt.
I dont enjoy rogue likes, or side scrolling platformers.
I also dont enjoy dance movies, so I dont watch them, not even if they are on TV or given to me free.

Where do some of you c**ts get off, with the high horse attitude of "its free, stop complaining"?

How about this, the IGC has a more diverse selection and alot of Indie devs try something a bit more adventurous?
After all, if a triple a series gets crap for repeating the same process, why do Indies get a free ride?

Totally agree with every word of this article. Who in their right mind would want knack over let's say rocket league? Makes no sense.

@ryanorly While some AAA games do innovate, I would say that there are more innovative indies than innovative AAAs though. Still, like you, I mainly look for fun games, and indie games are a bit more, mainly because they don't aim for realism as much as AAAs do - I detest many modern shooters for this reason.

Still, there's no reason that either type of game can't be fun!

@john81 Amen. Indie games helped me get through the bad launch lineup for PS4 - the only "big" launch game I liked was Killzone: Shadow Fall

@ToOGoodOfAPlaya Admittedly indies do have some genres they've yet to crack, but there are quite a lot of hack n slashers that I love - DmC is great, as well as the Warriors games (Not sure if they count as hack n slashers though)

@Anchorsam_9 Absolutely.
Which just serves to iterate my point.
I apologise for the wording in my last post, I get very annoyed when its assumed those that ask for something else are just complaining and arent allowed an opinion.

I dont like Rocket League.
BUT what is great about that game is that it was completely different, and that is why I tried it, even though I knew I wouldnt like it.

@ToOGoodOfAPlaya It's fine, whenever I get into a debate I get very into it too!

And yeah, everyone has an opinion on a game, and as long as you've tried it, it's valid!

It's not the influx of indies people are mad about, it's the lack of quality first party titles people are mad about. Only good PS4 exclusives are BloodBorne and Infamous.

More indies will always be good because more games is more games.

@SecondServing Good closer

When it comes to games, I always look at everything under one banner: games. With reviews or features I've written in the past, I've always tried to make the case for the game on its own merits.

There are of course, patterns in certain terms of development. I largely prefer the attitude of indie developers, but it's not always the case. And the same is with quality. Triple A titles vary greatly in quality, as do indie games. Although there are issues to consider in certain areas of development, seeing everything on a level playing field is always good.

I will say though that part of the reason I bought a PS4 is because Sony's outlook seemed to be more open to different types of developers and gaming styles, and for me, it's panning out well.