Soapbox: Why I Don't Think PS4K Is Okay

Well I won't be buying one lol.. Even if I did have a 4K Tv.. I wouldn't buy a 4K Tv either actually so none of this bothers me, but I do find it funny that people will always buy the newest even when it is absolutely pointless..

Completely agree. A new model of PS4 for the people who have the kit for 4k is fine, because I just won't buy it (yet). My worry is eventually playing games on my old ps4, and having to settle for reduced performance, or games developed specifically for the upgraded console, that would be a slap in the face.

I can see why some people don't like the idea, but I personally don't mind. As long as they have the same games on both it should be okay. I would probably buy one if the performance of games was improved. I buy console purely for ease of use so don't mind refreshing every few years for something more powerful

I think it's a shocking decision based on profit over customers. Although both machines will play the same games, it sounds like those on the original system will suffer in performance as developers focus on making the most of the new machine.
It's a nonsense decision and could be a big mistake. I also don't think VR will be that big a thing. Like 3D tv's it will sell well and then fade.
At the end of the day we want games with playability.

For 4k only? Never.
Better graphics, maybe, but a new PS4 isn't a New 3ds (which is way cheaper), so I don't know.

@Anchorsam_9 I totally agree with you, Sam! And you are very brave to express all that on Push Square, where there's an excessive tendency to honour every step that Sony makes.

I bought the PlayStation 4 six months after it launched and I can tell you I'm quite disappointed as a new PlayStation player, not only for Plus service but mostly for the lacklustre catalogue of old PlayStation games. I expected something like PlayStation 3 store, where you could find lots of PS and PS2 games, but on PS4 there are just a dozen of PS2 games, and none of them are what I was looking for. I really hoped for PS4 to be at least as appealing as PS3, that had not only brilliant new games but an impressive retro library.

I don't see the issue as long as future games work on both with and the benefits for VR are probably the main reason for this upgrade. PSVR as it stands is in a situation where it could be quickly left behind due to the limitations of the PS4 so it makes sense to protect themselves from that. The only concern is future games not been optimised for the standard PS4 but as it's moved closer to pc architecture and many games now are made for consoles and PC's and thus already scalable this may not become that big an issue. For those that have the standard PS4 they will still have the same experience that they bought into and those that wish to upgrade get better graphics and frame rate. Perhaps it's time to look at what benefits it could have instead of all the unnecessary negativity, it may even help to prolong the shelf life of the PS4 so not everyone has to move onto another console in a couple of years

The fact that the consoles update every 5 years is frustrating by the end of the cycle they are really far behind in terms of graphics and processing power. I would prefer a new console every 3 years with backward compatibity.

I'm way against it, I think it woukd be a lovely move for Sony which is doing so well at the mo, and too much of a gamble with vr around the corner. I also think (and hope) that this is one if those crazy rumours and really hope sony puts at stop to it and comes clean with whatever they are doing!

Rant over

_{@sham8nix Watch the language -Tasuki-}

Need hard facts before passing judgement.

I honestly still have a hard time getting the hubbub over the "PS4K", but I feel like there's only an issue if this thing is mandatory to have going forward. Then I can see stuff like, "PS4K Exclusive" being branded on games, which would leave others in the dust. That I kinda do have a problem with.

From what I can tell and have been told right now, 4K is just for shinier stuff. I'm sure it's more than just improved picture quality, but that alone is not worthy of an upgrade for me. I'm not a techwiz, so it doesn't really matter to me how great it looks and whatnot as long as it doesn't slowdown like crazy.

Besides, with all the delays these days, with the current systems being supposedly harder to work with (or devs having a harder time, whichever one), how's a 4K PS4 gonna make that easier?

@Jaxx2507 Exactly. 4K is such a new and expensive technology that it's doubtful many people would buy a PS4K for its actual purpose

@kyleforrester87 That's a good point - there are a definite few games that haven't run well on PS4. Still, the final two cores of the PS4's CPU haven't been unlocked for developers yet, so we could see improved performance in the future.

@Thebenman That's what I'm worried about. This may be paranoid, but if this new PS4 is as powerful as the rumours claim, then it would definitely give improved performance over the original model.

@mrobinson91 Fair enough - I guess the benefits of console gaming is that we save money because we don't have to upgrade as often.

@superspur1978 If developers use this rumoured PS4.5 as a model for developing their games, then the version on the less powerful original model will probably take a hit in terms of performance. Two models means twice as much work for developers, interestingly.

@VanillaLake Thanks! Still, I wouldn't say that everyone at Push Square relentlessly stands by Sony - we are a group of PlayStation fans, so therefore we do have a slight bias towards Sony, but I can safely say that all of the writers here would always call out Sony on doing something wrong, and have done in the past. Still it's a matter of opinion. I agree with your comments about the retro lineup, though. PS2 releases on the PS4 have slowed down too much, and Sony should do more to bring PS1 and extra PS2 games more frequently to the PS Store.

@carlos82 That's not a bad idea, actually. Selling the PS4K as a way to prolong PSVR would probably be a way to get fans on board, I just think that Song shouldn't be exploring that option after 2 years of the console releasing.

@dryrain Backwards compatibility would probably be more of a problem if consoles were upgraded more often, but at least Sony are using PS Now to attempt Backwards compatibility. Still, ID prefer to download older games instead of streaming them.

@sham8nix @LieutenantFatman Imagine if all of these rumours were completely false! It's happened before, but I think that it's gone on for too long for it to be a hoax. It always helps to be skeptical though.

@DerMeister Two PS4s means more work for developers, which would probably mean Sony would have to help devs port games to their systems more. I'm not bothered about 4K, and while it's a nice extra for those who care about it, designing a new console seems a little excessive.

I'll be visiting the comments periodically tonight, so I'm around to answer any questions.

Give it a redesign, make it smaller, add bluray/streaming on 4k, bundle it with psvr, I don't care. Just don't make it more powerful for games, because that will upset existing userbase and leave them with lacklustre versions of ps4k games, if they work at all on regular ps4.

This upgraded PS4 is a terrible idea just like the New 3DS was for Nintendo. It's one thing to add minor improvements - adding an ethernet port to the Xbox 360 or making it smaller and more reliable. Adding significant horsepower that will (most likely) lead to games playing like rubbish on the original PS4 and only decently on the "PS4K" (Hyrule Warriors Legends, for example) is completely wrong, though.

That sub-heading is quality @anchorsam_9

Or just wait 2/3 years and release it as ps5 with MUCH more horsepower and fully backward compatible. That should be better.

@carlos82 As someone who just preordered a PSVR, I'm going to be pretty unhappy if I find out that I need a new PS4 for an "optimal" VR experience. That would raise the cost to somewhere in the $800 USD range, and I'm unwilling to pay that much since (1) I've already bought a PS4, and (2) No mention was made by Sony of the need for another, better PS4 for an optimal VR experience. That would be enough for me to cancel my order, in fact.

Regardless, this gen consoles are significantly underpowered. Not just in terms of resolution but also the frame rates. Games last gen were 720/60 or 720/30 and yet this gen, a lot of games can't hit 1080/60 that PC's were doing before this gen launched. Uncharted 4's MP is 900/60 - its campaign is 1080/30. Hows it going to cope with fast paced VR games?

They rushed the PS4 out and its CPU in particular is SLOW which is causing a lot of bottlenecking and problems for developers - its something they have mentioned since it launched.

Since the PS4 launched, there has been a lot of development in both CPU and GPU technology - both of which can be put to good use in the PS4k and for a reasonable cost. Releasing a PS4k now makes more sense than releasing a PS5.

Maybe I am fortunate to own a 4K TV but I am still very much interested in PS4k. I can already see games dropping to 900p or even 720p before very much longer. If the rumours are true - and I have little reason to doubt them - its something they need to do!

I totally agree, I dont think developers have got the best out of the PS4 yet. It wasn't really until around 3 or so years in last gen that the games started to excel. Just look at Perfect Dark Zero compared to COD 4 as an example.

Also with the uncertain economy, downturn in the £ and the Brexit looming, does the general public really want 4k TV? Mainstream TV channels have only recently moved to HD. Without the usp of widescreen support (as everyone now has it), there is actually no reason to own a new 4k tv than the clarity of the image. I cant see for the short term wide support from TV companies for this either. Also our broadband will need to improve for streaming, if its 4x the image - its 4x the data.

To be fair there is now widespread support for the 4k standard at the electronics meeting a few weeks ago - I read somewhere 35 companies both electronics makers and media producers have agreed in principal. But that doesn't mean we will start to see the benefits of that ourselves for years yet.

I have considered both sides of the arguement. Do I want a better experience and Driveclub at 60fps, the Witcher at a higher resolution and Nathan Drakes jaw slapping antics in ultra HD colour. YES! But actually cant we try to get better at programming and compressing for the PS4 first.

@jmbenetti I'd prefer them to wait until the PS5 to bolster game performance and hardware, just like you said. If they want to create a better entertainment box then they should focus on Blu-Ray players and set-top boxes

@ElkinFencer I'm fine with Sony making a PS4 slim, just like they have in previous generations, but bolstering gameplay performance is just wrong

@Hego Cheers! I had a long list of rejects for this one, I always seem to put way too much time into doing the sub headings.

@Bliquid Thanks! Tobey Maguire will always be the only Spider Man in our hearts

@BAMozzy While the PS4 could be seen as technically underwhelming, it's still early days for the console - compare the early PS3 games to The Last of Us or GTA V and you'll see a huge technical difference. Like I've said before, adding a PS4 with 4K support is fine by me, but tampering with the hardware significantly will cause problems in the long term. Also, just curious: would you say that 4K is a big enough improvement over HD to warrant the prices, or is it a technology that most people should wait a little longer before they buy?

@themcnoisy I feel like 4K is too new and niche a technology to warrant making a new console over, considering the lack of support for 4K. There are only a few channels in the UK that I can think of that have 4K support, and I doubt that anyone would buy a 4K TV just to play their PS4 on considering the current price. I feel like 4K should only be a focus for Sony once it become a mainstream technology, as it doesn't make much sense for them to build one otherwise. Outputting a 4K resolution is one thing, but running a game at 4K is a whole nother level.

@BAMozzy

I've searched for some examples of framerates on previous gen. I'm sure we didn't have an always locked framerate then. I guess developers prefer more refined visuals over framerate, maybe becuase they sell more than the later. This gen isn't different. We'd need a lot more power to have richer visuals AND best framerates, so they have to chose.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-mass-effect-PS3-face-off
Alas, there are still familiar weak points; drops to 15FPS are commonplace during sequences filled with transparent alpha effects, plus major hiccups down to 10FPS are possible when entering the Mako buggy. There also seems to be an issue with simply starting idle dialogue with squad members, which often causes a sharp stutter on each platform.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-assassins-creed-rogue-face-off

Less demanding moments see the Xbox 360 game frequently operate between 35-40fps, while PS3 frame-rates often fall between 28-32fps in similar situations.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-off-prototype-2

The target frame rate is 30FPS - although jumping from a high point and gliding across the more central, heavily populated roads of New York City is a very easy way to drag that down to 25FPS on both HD consoles.

Thank you. I may not me a technical genius but not even I'm dumb enough to think that thing, if it exists will play your PS4 games in 4K like it was meant to be. And don't pretend buying it would be a choice. Everyone know dang well we're gonna want that thing even if we can't get it. It's just too expensive of an upgrade atm. But we'll definitely see cheaper GOOD 4K TVs in the future. But that's gonna take another 3-4 years. Trust me.

Finally a critical piece in regards to Sony but one I couldn't disagree more with. Still waiting to see how a better piece of hardware divides the userbase. Unless God of War 4 can only be played on PS4K, this new console isn't a bad thing at all. If this is such a bad idea then everybody should be up in arms over PSVR which does in fact divide the userbase.

Why would the next PlayStation be any more then a SLIM with 4K BLU_RAY!
No added power nothing other than a slim with upgraded Blu-ray player. It been said this will be $399. I don't see any room here to add in anything at all. All this 4K gaming (cost 1,000s to do on PC) double GPU speed (has to be at least $100) even adding in a native 4K Blu-ray player would add at least double the cost of a standard HD player.

Lauching 1st quarter 2017 That would TANK Holliday sales for the PS4!!

I have PlayStation VR pre-ordered and I'm waiting on E3 to learn more about this new console. Then I will decide what to do. But if this goes like the rumors I will cancel my game and VR pre-orders and start playing on my PC with a Oculus Rift. My R9/390 can run circles around a PS4. I have really enjoyed my PS4 up to this point.

@kyleforrester87
But if they push the graphical envelope so far now that games can't run with a solid frame rate, what makes you so confident that will change with a stronger system? They'll just push the envelope even farther and the games will run with the same 30fps you're dealing with now.

Back catalog games won't be optimized for a performance boost, and future games will continue to push whatever hardware they run on, squeaking by with that same old "30 but really 25" frames per second.

I highly doubt if this is true, it would mean separating playerbases. I imagine the ps4k will be for those of us who want that added oompf, but it would not mean separate titles, games etc. Until the ps5 comes around, which I imagine would relegate the ps4k to what ps4 status would be. Because of the architecture, I believe they will be backwards/forwards compatible, and would simply have pc style graphics settings depending on which console you put the disc in. If they did split the playerbase, it would be an epic failure unless ps4k is releasing 2018 at the earliest (5yr mark)

@VanillaLake We all hate on Sony even when we are talking about rumours still no word from Sony. Brave to hate they do that a lot here so nothing new. It would be a great laugh if its nothing but i hope its real a upgrade would be welcome. And to help you out of your misery the PS4 wont play 4k games maybe upscale them.

@JohnKarnes So you sell your console you like for a option to upgrade...... Strange logic well we will see what's gonna happen.

@Riririn You can buy one for 800 Euro now. For a 1000 you get a better one.

@adf86 agree with that, and i also thought it could be out of response to Xbox Live integration (the rumor could be the response)

maybe sony started the rumor to test the waters.

Mee-wow! I can't believe Sony would do something as daft as split their user base so soon into this console generation.

Playstation VR is already a huge, expensive gamble for them. I hope it's a roaring success, but the high cost, lack of top tier developers working on launch titles (seriously, I don't want to drop the guts of £500 to play indie games), and potential for confusion over the peripherals (do devs target games at Dualshock, or 1 x Move stick, or 2 x sticks?) means it could fail harder than Move or Vita.

A PS4 Slim? That runs cooler and quieter? Shut up and take my money!
A PS4 Slim with 4K? I can live with that.
A PS4 Slim with 4K and a built-in GPU/memory upgrade that destroys the consistency of user experience you expect within a console's lifetime? That forces devs to either ignore the extra power or treat launch model PS4 owners like poor relations? No hissing way!

Cynical old me suspects this 4K tomfoolery is bad old Sony thinking, hoping to shore up their telly business. I bought a Playstation for the gaming lolz, not to watch Pet Rescue in super high definition.

@Anchorsam_9 I dont think they can make a console run 4k games not yet and not for 499 thats for sure. I would be happy if all runs on 1080p 60FPS with all the nice graphics.

@Flaming_Kaiser No I can't I don't even make 700 in a month.

This could be just Sony's way to sell more 4K TVs and Blu-rays… Don't think we'll ever see games with 4k resolution anytime soon, games nowadays are already expensive to develop even without fully utilizing the current PS4's potential.

It won't be for me. To me, it's just Sony trying to sell more of the consoles. I already bought a PS4 on launch, and there's no way I'm going to upgrade...until the PS5 comes out. I'm still waiting for some of the PS3 additions for the PS4...being able to put the games in folders, downloading your bought tv show episodes and movies (it would be nice for people that don't have the best internet). It would also be nice to store photos and music on it, without the use of a USB Media Card. That's my only gripes about the PS4 (Unless you're including the constant updates on games and the small HDD). Other than that, love the system and loved the PS3!

I still doubt a PS4K is even going to happen, though the name is admittedly fantastic. I think all this stuff will end up going into the PS5 which I assume to come out in 2018/2019. One only needs to look at the New 3DS to see this is a bad idea. While I live mine, Nintendo really hasn't been pushing the system as hard as they could. And the 3DS is half as expensive as a new PS4 would be and people still aren't buying it. It would be silly for Sony to not just work on the PS5 and I can't see this happening.

@Flaming_Kaiser There will be so many on sale from others doing the same you will be lucky to get $150 and will still be out $150 for the new one that you didnt need in the first place! Look at Uncharted 4 graphics are fine now.

I do not agree that people are buying consoles to last 5 years. Its not the 80's. Its clear that console owners do want power. Branding and ease of use are something PC does not have. My PS4 will never get a virus and will rarely crash. That is worth something.

I wanted to preorder PS vr. But now Im confused. I bought ps4 few months ago for Gran turismo, which should release this year. Beta should take place this spring. But gt is in list of games for ps4k. What that means? That vr in this game will be only for ps4k? It starts to stink a bit. Maybe vr wont be So much cheap. Vr for 400$ , maybe controllers and camera for 100$, new PS for 400-500$. Viola ! We have 1000$ ! Yes still cheaper than pc + oculus or vibe. But I think now lot of people will be confused. And lot of people wont buy anything. So for me no preorder for vr. Im waiting Sony...

And for underpowered ps4... I think its nonsense. Of course multiplats which are not optimized are slower than on top notch Pcs. But gpu is much more stronger and CPU is stronger too than on ps3. And if I look on gt5 or 6 what was possible on ps3 with 256MB RAM....in fhd. Wow!

Confused and waiting....

@Grawlog the problem is that there are different measures of playing... just look at what happen with Hyrule Warriors on the older version of 3ds

I personally think it's got the potential to be horribly mishandled by Sony. If this isn't the generation where native 4k gaming is doable and affordable, then work on the tech, but use it for the next generation, don't split the fanbase up

I see this rumoured PS4K as something Sony needs to do, if they want to be successful with their whole Virtual Reality gamble, and also for them to be able to have other 4K apps/services + 4K Blu Ray.

I think it's not for better gaming and graphics, but purely because when they developed the PS4, they didn't expect the VR craze to get serious so fast, so now they're scrambling to be able to be in the race.

I wonder if the difference in opinion is down to age, I'm older than most gamers these days having been playing games since the 80s and think this is a really bad idea if it is true. Is people's acceptance of this down to youth and the fact they have grown up in a world where we now change are phones, tvs, cars and most other things in the span of a few years?

I also wonder what effect these news stories are having on the PS4s sales? If I was in the market to buy one I would hold out on confirmation or denial of this system and the specs of it if it was real. For me Sony's silence tells me they are making this system as they'd want to squash these rumours otherwise. With 40 million PS4s in the wild I would also suspect that most developers are going to develop games with that in mind making an upgraded console possibly an idea that backfires as happened with the New 3DS.

Sony needs to step carefully as I can see this leading to a lot of people going to PC if handled poorly. I already game on the PC too and, should this become the path consoles take, I would drop console gaming completely in favour of the cheaper option.

I'd buy one if:
1) I happened to somehow acquire a 4K tv (lol)
2) it had full b/c with PS brand discs
3) it could play blurays on repeat (still not a feature!!!)
4) I could somehow save the PT demo on my day-one's 1TB hdd
5) Sony offered a trade-in bundle to reduce costs
...so I don't think I'll be getting one lol

You're so right about the slogan. "for the players" Ps3 was billed as an entertainment unit like the xbone are doing right now. This time they said they were gonna concentrate on making games yet i see this as being a way to make money from streaming films. It looks to me like sony are going the way of Nintendo. They have done everything they can to get a large fan base, tapping untouched markets, free online. Now they have it, they are gonna milk that fanbase for all its worth.

I can see if its ps4 4k just for bluray 4k.
Or ps4 VR special were it helps the VR.
But if its ps4 1.5 that will just cause confusion. Just look at wii u release and What a disaster that was.

@Anchorsam_9 Difference between last gen and this, is that the architecture is a lot more simplistic and straight forward this gen. Last gen it took a while for developers to utilise the split RAM effectively on the PS3 for example and Xbox's DRAM set up - both quite different from the standard PC set-up. It took developers a while to get to grips with how to programme games the most effective way for both last gen consoles. A reason a lot of multi-platform games were considered 'poorer' on the PS3 was because of the Split RAM that couldn't work 'together' - by that I mean the most any process (like Graphics) could be allocated to was 256MB compared to Xbox's upto 512MB (theoretical - but obviously other processes had to be used).

This generation though, the architecture is more simplistic in its design and similar to PC's. The PS4's CPU is an 8core AMD 'Jaguar' running at 1.6ghz (it has a maximum clock speed of 2.0ghz) compared to the PS3's Cell processor running at 3.2Ghz. A lot of games on PC require a multi-core CPU running at 2.4ghz. Sony has already released the 7th core to developers to try and get better performance (similar to Xbox letting developers use the core for Kinect) but its still a very slow processor. This is what's causing bottlenecks in games.
The GPU is a modified Radeon 7 series and whilst it may be capable of 1.84TFLOPS, PCs were doing this in 2011 - they are now pushing 5+. Coupled with the 'slow' processor, its struggling to deliver a certain level of performance. Games like Dark Souls3, the Division, the Witcher 3, Uncharted 4 etc all run at 1080/30 - an acceptable performance - but could run on a PC at 1080/60 - Dark Souls 3 for example requires a 3.1ghz i3, Radeon 7950 and 4GB (DDR5) RAM to run at 60fps - theoretically less (apart from the CPU) or equivalent to the PS4.

I know it is disappointing that after 2-3 years, the PS4 is (potentially) getting an upgrade. When it launched though, its specs were already 2-3 years behind current PC's (meaning its technically 5-6yrs old now) and I can't see it lasting another 3+years - particularly as it wants to add VR into the mix. The external processor of this isn't handling the games but processes the 3D audio and 'image' (I understand this un-warps the image for TV's so that 'others' can get an idea of what you are seeing) but the game is utilising the PS4's processing to run the game.

I think it makes more sense to release a new PS4 rather than opt for the PS5 at this point in time. 4K TV's are outsellling 1080p TV's too. If Sony released the PS5, I think that would cause more outcry and split the user base more. The PS4k (by all accounts) will run all existing PS4 games and the PS4 will run all future PS4 games too. I can see that in future games, the PS4 may be limited to 900 or 720p resolution - maybe even 30fps too. Whilst I doubt the PS4k will run native 4k and at a playable frame-rate, I can see it running games at 1440p (nearly double 1080p in terms of pixels) meaning that 'upscaling' only has to add 1 pixel for every 1 native compared to 3 for every 1 in 1080 giving a better picture overall. 900p is approx 2/3s of the pixel count (Uncharted 4's MP) and on a 4k TV, this means that 6pixels for every 1 is being 'guessed - on a 1080p TV this 1 for every 2 pixels.

Its only a matter of time before 900p becomes the standard that PS4 can deliver. If you have a 1080p TV this isn't so 'bad' but for those with 4K TV's that starts to look like SD on an HD TV or worse. The PS4 already has had its full potential unlocked to developers - they can't use the 8th core as that is essential for the OS. Its conceivable Sony could overclock the CPU to 1.75 (same as XB1) but that also increases the heat. XB1 is a lot bigger to dissipate the heat better.

Looking ahead to Sony's big 'gamble' - PSVR. Its essential to have a high frame rate to counteract motion sickness. In slower paced, low action games, the PS4 can 'cope' but what happens in high paced, high action (lot of enemies) games? The CPU will bottleneck causing frame rate drops or you get a 'mismatch' between movement and visual perception a slight delay between these - causing 'motion sickness'.

I am not a 'young' person. With 40years of gaming behind me, I am not of the generation that 'changes' their 'phone' every year. I am someone though who likes to keep up with technology where possible. I don't have a gaming PC so don't go that route of upgrading either. I have bought 'upgrades' for consoles in the past though - things like the N64's expansion pack. Its really in recent times that consoles have become far more 'static'.

The PS3 seemed quite static but the reality is the CPU was upgraded over time. It went from being a 90nm chip and 380W power supply down to a 45nm chip and 190W power. HDD space went from 20/60GB to 250/500GB. Whilst this didn't affect 'games' directly, it made the PS3 more efficient, quieter and smaller. XB360 also went through a number of changes - including its CPU (partly because of the RROD issue - although that didn't happen to mine - but I did suffer YLOD with my original 60GB PS3). During the course of last gen, I had 3 XB360's (Original, replaced by the Elite, then replaced that with the Slim/Kinect bundle - not because any were broken) and 2 PS3's (Original 60gb and Slim 320gb - because I had YLOD). Depending on the model you bought, some models had a very small HDD, 12gb, Some games required a lot of 'space' and a sizeable install to run. Add in DLC, it became very difficult for some people to play games together without having to delete content, install games (some had partial installs), download patches and/or DLC content etc so switching games when playing together was a nightmare.

In that time though, there wasn't a big jump in TV's. I admit that most had CRT screens but these consoles were designed to work on the flat-screens too. Games were 600-720p which is still less than the capability of flat-screens. But with 4K TV's dominating sales (in terms of 'new' TV's bought) and the fact that at CES 2016, TV's were a minimum of 4K (some even 8K), its only a matter of time before 4K is the 'standard'. 4K TV's are cheaper now than my first 1080p TV - I paid less for a slimmer, lighter, smart 55" 3D 4K TV than I did for my 46" 1080p TV without smart or 3D - you can buy a 55" 4K Philips TV for less than £450 or a 49" smart LG for £500 - not 'cheap' but still not that 'expensive' either. Like I said images at 1080 still have to put 3 pixels in for every one though for these. Sky and BT both have 4K TV services out or due out this year and Netflix, Amazon etc also have an increasing 4k content.

As I said, I think that the PS4 is already at its limit and games are only likely to get lower in resolution - they can't get lower in frame-rate. I know we will see games at 1080/60 and games like Uncharted 4 look incredible and no doubt will play beautifully at 30fps. I do think though that is the 'best' the PS4 can manage. Its at its peak, its limit. Those with a PS4 can expect that 'standard' for the duration. If games get more complex, more enemies, more destruction etc, I can see the PS4 having to drop to 900p to deliver the same playability/frame rate. All the PS4k will do (by my understanding) is give the game a higher resolution and maybe a better frame rate. Maybe the game 'could' be played at 1440 and 30fps or 1080/60. Its still not stopping those with a PS4 from playing the game and IF it has an online component, playing that game together.

I get the impression, that Sony need to upgrade the PS4 to keep up with the times and its VR. It could very easily just make PS5 but that would divide the community far more. For those with 1080p TV's and no interest in PSVR, the PS4 is likely to be adequate but I don't see it maintaining a 1080/30 standard.for the next few years.

Sorry this is yet another long winded bit of text to read through. I don't think Sony are the only ones though that need to have an 'upgraded' console. The XB1 just can't compete. If it doesn't - particularly with Nintendo expected to release its NX, the XB1 is going to be the 'Wii' of this gen. Developers are seriously struggling to optimise games to run on current gen to the same standard as a 'minimum' spec PC - a PC with a similar GPU and less RAM. I don't see developers opting to not release on console - it is after all their biggest market. I see the divide getting very big, very quickly - especially with the leap in CPU, GPU and API's in the last year.

I don't know how many years apart it was from initial release to its second iteration (for me, I bought my first PS1 at the end of 1997 so it wasn't that long), but remember when they came out with the PS1.5 (my name)? Big difference being the addition of the two sticks on the controller, & Ape Escape being the first game to require it.

I think that's where Sony gets the idea it'll work out ok this time around. I never bought the 1.5, but my tv died a couple of months ago, & I ended up with a 4k set (was only $700) so I'd consider buying the new console down the road. Not when it first comes out - I always wait at least 6 months to see if there are any new hardware issues before purchase.

@BAMozzy Long post, but I have a short answer. Sales are good, there's no reason to bring a new system. As long as people buys ps4s, nobody cares if their games look equal or better than high end pcs (they sure don't look like on low end pcs, just check Digital Foundry, basically the games look a little less good than on high end pcs, and at less framerate). Just look the original wii,it selled a lot being the less powerful system. Ps4 is the most powerful console now, and the best selling one too. Most people can't count pixels or fps, they just want a game that looks and play good.

@jmbenetti Sales are good but have slowed a lot. For many, they maybe content their games don't perform as well (I am not referring to just resolution but frame rate too) and 30fps is acceptable. PS4 is currently the most powerful console but for how much longer? NX is expected to be more powerful.

One way for Sony to generate 'sales' is to release the PS4k - not only those with a PS4 may consider upgrading but those who maybe sat on the fence might consider it too. The PS4 would certainly see a 'price' reduction which may tempt others who are not interested or need 4K.

As I said, this is a bit more than just the visual, but the frame rate and whilst most aren't bothered about whether their game is 30 or 60fps, a number of people are. I am sure some people will be happy to have lower resolution as long as the frame rate stays stable. Its the frame rate though that determines if a game 'plays' well. If game development continues at the pace it is, its inevitable that the resolution is going to drop to maintain a stable frame rate - whether that's 30 or 60. Uncharted 4 (for example) can't deliver 1080/60 across both its campaign and MP. Its 1080/30 for campaign, 900/60 for MP. I know a lot are happy with this and the game looks incredible too but I wonder how many would prefer 1080/60 across both if they could - especially after the Nathan Drake collection.

Sony are hoping that VR becomes a success. It relies heavily on a high frame rate as well as a certain level of visual presentation. It requires a lot more 'horse-power' than standard TV based gaming. I can see the PS4k being essential for certain titles - although I expect them to play on PS4 but at lower frame rate/resolution - maybe even with shorter draw distance too.

For those with 4K TV's, a 4k blu-ray player, 4k options in Netflix (or equivalent - Its something Sony promised it would deliver to these services) and an increase in the 'resolution and/or frame rate' is more than enough reason to be excited by PS4k. Having a native 1080p (or less) means that every frame has to add at least 3 pixels for every 1 - otherwise 3/4's of the screen would be black. It doesn't make 4 pixels become 1. Games that are less than 1080p certainly are more noticeable on a 4k set - because of the need to add more 'pixels'. The way it works is it adds a pixel that's between the 'two' native pixels. For example if one is Black and one is white - the added pixel is grey. Having a higher native pixel count leads to less guess work and a better, sharper image.

As 4k TV's are outselling 1080p TV's significantly, this makes sense. It fulfils Sony's promise regarding 4K media too. It makes a LOT more sense than releasing a PS5.

people are looking into this way to much. 4k movies, that's all I believe it will be, it's an upgrade to 4k for videos. I honestly don't see anything bad for that, but I would think if it has to be upgraded to play 4k videos or whatever, the gpu would clearly be upgraded.

The part that people are looking to much into it, is the fact rumors and stupid rumors going around saying there will be only games for PS4k or that specific system. Those games will come out for the regular PS4, the difference is the resolution you can change to 4k in those games, that's all I believe.

@Kamikaze_Krunch Uhhh The PS4 already supports 4K video....This is something we really don't need 10,0000000 articles about, its a rumor that sites keep taking as a fact....

@__marc you don't need it, others that have a PS4 already don't need it, but if some decide to buy a second one or new adopters of the PS4 still haven't got it, so this doesn't matter anyway. You can say "we" as in early adopters of the PS4, but if this is true, you can't speak for everyone as it still doesn't matter. "we don't need this" correction is, "you don't need this", I don't need this, etc etc. either way, don't worry.

@BAMozzy The rumors are that NX will run games at 900p. I highly doubt any console on the near future will be able to run games at native 4k. Nx will also be able to stream 4k video. I guess, with some other people, that's the way that Sony will/should take with ps4k. 4k video, same games will be a a new offer and don't upset existing fanbase. Just look how much hate this rumour created here, where we already love our Ps4. Why upset fanbase who knows about fps and resolution to give the rest something they don't know they're getting?

@BAMozzy Also, as someone stated before, incremented horsepower will make developers force the system again, reducing fps again to bring richer visuals. You will be playing low fps games with great visuals on ps4k and unplayable, ugly games on ps4.

@jmbenetti This will be a N3DS situation all over again. The N3DS has sold remsrkably well yet bar 1-2 games, you dont see developers bring exclusive games to the system, at least not any time soon.

The thing is, just like the 3DS, it feels Sony has unfinished business with the console, they will put more power on the PS4k but i dont really think developers would use that.

Its like.. "Hmmm do i want to develop a game that 50m+ (ps4 + xb1 owners) people might buy or just 1-2m" ? Not to mention, adding a new options for ps4k owners takes money, time and potentially reduced benefits as the player base its 0 right now and nobody knows how it will really be.

I kinda like the idea, i have a 4k tv and want 4k content (i dont really play on my ps4, pc + steam link beats the idea of having a console for me), but depends on the price and if theres an actual incentive to do an upgrade, then3ds had one, the user experience of the console its million times better (loading times, smoothnes of the UI, etc...) but will the ps4k bring something like that ?

And by the way, i remember when console players said that you needed to upgrade every year to play games (by the way, thats wrong) how is it going now huh ?

@Faruko IF it works as I see it, developers would make games in exactly the same way they do now. When it comes to the PS4 port, they can just leave in the graphic settings found in the PC version that gets taken out normally for console versions. The extra 'power' of the PS4k just allows a better visual presentation or maybe frame rate. For example if the game runs 1080/30 on the PS4 (like Division, Dark Souls 3, Witcher 3 etc), The PS4k version may run at 1440/30 or 1080/60. The extra power just allows that choice - a choice that's already built into the game on PC.

Developers don't make 3 or 4 different versions of the same game. they make 1. If a game can run at 4k/60fps on a very high spec rig, that game is exactly the same as the one that console owners get at 1080/30. PC owners on a min spec Rig can see the game at 4k but because the information is very intensive, the frame rate would be terrible but the information is there.

What I expect will happen is that developers will continue to make games in the same way and port to PS4. instead of removing features and therefore locking the resolution/frame rate, the game will have the option to switch up the graphic settings - similar to how it worked on the N64. Turok 2 for example, in the menu you could enable 'ultra' settings but only if you had the expansion pak - if not this was greyed out. I see the PS4/k doing the same thing.

Its no different from PC gamers and development for these. A developer doesn't make multiple versions for all the combinations of CPU's and GPU's. It doesn't stop low end PC gamers from playing alongside high end gamers online. If this does come to fruition, you can still play Rocket league together, you can still play Battlefield (or what ever online game you prefer) even if one person has a 1440p and another has 900 or 1080p resolutions. Regardless of what console you own, you will still get the same games. At most I expect a sticker on the box saying PS4k enabled (or something like that) to indicate that the game will have some graphical enhancement features. I doubt that you would be able to tell whether others in an online lobby have the 4k or 4. - in the same way you never know what other rigs PC gamers are running and therefore their resolution/frame rate.

Games like Uncharted 4 show that the PS4 can deliver incredible looking games at an acceptable 30fps. All I see is that PS4k could either boost the resolution to 1440p which obviously would look better on a 4K TV ot maybe boost the frame rate to 60fps. Most of the other benefits will be around media - 4K bluray player, netflix in 4k.

Maybe I am giving Sony the benefit of doubt - thinking they wouldn't be stupid enough to split the user base by releasing what is essentially PS5. It certainly sounds as though (if the rumours are true) that the PS4k is the PS4 with the ability to enhance the graphics.

Until its officially announced though, its pure speculation. I honestly think that this generation is likely to be a lot shorter than last - mainly because of the development of CPU, GPU technology and the increase in 4k in homes.

I wonder if people would be more opposed if Sony launched PS5 in 12/18 months or prolonged the generation a bit longer by offering PS4k?

@BAMozzy Console games are not that flexible for a reason. Developers work on a locked specshardware to get the most out of it. Naughty Dog games are an example of excellent optimization. 3rd party games often lack that grade of optimization, but we always see developers working hard on what to leave and what to sacfrifice to bring the best optimized version of the game posible. It's not as easy as "compile again, leave graphics settings available". If you see Arkham Knight, or even The Order 1886, you'll see they are strugling to being the best visuals for an specific hardware. That would be an extra job with two PS4s with different specs.

How many people out there have a 4k tv? I don't know of anyone who owns or has expressed interest in owning one.

@goonow My PC has never crashed and doesn't get viruses. Plus if you use a Linux distribution viruses are null and even with Windows a bit of caution means no viruses as well. Also a PC is pretty easy to use in terms of the OS. Ps4's are like all electronics susceptible to failure. Ps3 had the ylod for example.

I keep thinking about the GAF leak that said the God of War 4 is being developed to take full advantage of PlayStation 4K. Resolutiongaters will have a new hobby of comparing games on PS4K and PS4 with clickbait articles, which will whip up the 20m plus vanilla PS4 owners into a frezzy. Sony just think of that headache inducing Pandora’s box you're opening with such a move.

Here is my problem with this. Let's say I go buy a 4k tv that will allow me to utilize this supposed ps4k, other than a few Netflix options and some 4k blurays, NONE of the regular broadcasting companies have started to broadcast in 4k, and they are unlikely to for a while yet. Now there may be some ultra package, which costs more, but I'm not interested in that. For me this will be more feasible when television, cable, streaming services etc all broadcast in 4k to make the purchase of a 4k tv truly worth it. Yea it will be awesome to have minor graphical advancements in my games, but honestly they are already so good I rarely have complaints of the graphical nature. I am MUCH MORE interested in psvr than ps4k.

If its only 4K video I don't care...I am not even planning to buy a 4K TV for another 2-4 years. I am way more interested in a VR headset with Virtual Desktop so I can make my own make-believe cinema screen

@Gamer83 Exactly

I have no interest in 4k the TVs are way too expensive if this new PS4k was somehow backwards compatible with PS3 I'd buy it but as it stands i have no use, no need or want for PS4K

@get2sammyb LOL I didn't mean to be rude, it's just an impression I get sometimes. Let's make an article about why PS4 has just a few PS2 games and PS3 had a massive retro library.

@Flaming_Kaiser I don't hate.

My guess? The 'PS4K' is going to be a regular PS4 that includes 4K streaming and Blu-Ray playback. It might(!) upscale games to 4K, but I'm not even sure about that one.

Another guess is that they might incorporate the extra PSVR box, so that you only have to hook up the headset itself.

Finally, they might throw in a nifty remote to emphasize the 4K media playback. That's it though: a slimmer, more complete PS4 that doesn't divide the fanbase in any way whatsoever.

@VanillaLake : personally , i've never known pushSquare to be afraid of "ruffling Sony's feathers" , they always tell it like it is .

@jmbenetti actually, they are that flexible if given the option. Consoles have always evolved in flexibility over-time if given the chance.

All spot on. The fact this new wave of consoles (ps4 Xbone) can't even achieve consistent 1080p with rock solid 60fps surely means the price of a 4K console at this time would be astronomical . Sony are getting close to releasing their VR headset and would be mad to add something else they have to sell into the mix. They've done so much right with the ps4 and although you point out the really frustrating things that persist with this console I do feel like they truly learnt a lot from the PS3, trying to push 4K on us now instead of continuing to improve what we've got would be potentially suicidal.

I couldn't agree more. If the upgrade was to slim down the form factor or improve 4k media compatibility (UHD Bluray/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2) I wouldn't be too bothered. The rumoured CPU & GPU upgrade bothers me enormously though. I'm irritated by the idea that I will have to pay the same price for games as PS4K users only to have various quality settings turned down or off.

Also though: PS4 game prices were already a bit high for my liking, and the degradation of PlayStation Plus has seen me start buying day one AAA releases on PC instead. (I'm concerned I'll unsubscribe in the near future resulting in my losing access to multiplayer in games for which I paid £50+; whereas on the PC games are cheaper and multiplayer is free).

All of the above concerns are coming together and making me question why I even need a PS4 any more.

it would be ok if it was an addon peripheral to ps4 more aimed at people who like their 4k tvs rather than a standalone (it still wouldn't be able to play 4k games) that would annoy me but nothings been announced officially so im hoping there leaking this to gauge public opinion, and then have a rethink.

@Owenstoodstill well said ! youd think they would want all eyes on the psvr i also heard a rumor this 4k thing is about netflix and promises made from sony about 4k streaming of.