Sony: PS4K Will Not Shorten the PS4's Lifecycle

Yeah I think MS haven't helped this situation with whatever Scorpio turns out to be...

With Sony insistently saying that both platforms will coexist until the end of this generation's cycle, I'm more and more convinced that PS4 Neo will in fact lengthen the eight generation lifecycle, which was bound to be shorter if these 4K updates hadn't come around.

I respect Shuhei but he's talking rubbish here. Of course it will shorten the ps4 lifespan because games will invetibly be more and more optimised for neo which will effectively render ps4 obsolete. In a couple of years most people, I imagine, will end up upgrading, and newcomers will buy neo.

It's possible that games will play on both but have different locked framerates. I think the difference will often just be that. In rare cases Neo owners might be able to download a patch that betters some textures or something. But don't expect it for most games. Just the really big AAA games.

What really determines the longevity of a console is the software that is available for it. If developers find themselves having to make more and more sacrifices to run games on the level of hardware at a 'certain' standard, then it is clearly time to either consider a new generation or actually bring out its next gen. Part of the reason that last generation lasted so long, is that games didn't drop in performance standards or need to make compromises to the 'quality' to run.
Looking at this gen, its clear that the PS4 is running at its maximum potential but developers still have to make sacrifices. Uncharted 4, as great as it looks etc, had to drop to 30fps for its campaign and 900p for its MP. Games like Doom use dynamic resolution to maintain its frame rate.
By bringing out the Neo though, it can actually help the PS4 last the expected generation life-cycle. It can continue to deliver the games at a standard expected and take the pressure of developers trying to hit this standard and sacrificing in other areas. For example trying to hit 1080p but sacrificing a locked frame rate or scaling visual effects right back. Instead they can release at 900p to improve these. MS are in different situarion because their XB1 is less powerful and has less margin to scale back. Take frostbite 3 games as an example, the XB1 is already running these at 720/60, if they get bigger/more complex etc, the only real option is to scale back the frame rate to 30fps where as the PS4, running at 900/60, at least could scale down the resolution to 720. We have seen how 'fog' affects games like the Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 for its frame rates and BF1 has 'dynamic weather' with fog and of course mustard gas too.
Obviously it could still depend on what the developers create and whether or not these games can 'run' adequately on the PS4. If they create a game/feature etc that looks like it won't, Sony will inevitably bring its PS5 out to ensure they don't miss out on delivering that to its user base. They certainly wouldn't want to be told they are not getting something because their hardware isn't powerful enough - even if it will run on Neo, Sony insist the Neo won't have anything the PS4 won't.

@Mergatro1d the two settings will be accessible on their respective console. Devs aren't going to suddenly ditch PS4.1 to concentrate on neo. Most games are created in 4k and downgraded to be playable on consoles. If they were bringing out a new console without the PS4 name attached then yeah, it can be classed as a new gen console. But this just isn't. Why risk 40Mil plus install Base by lying and deceiving customers, that's just bad for business for the next gen PS5

i guess what I dont get is how is this any different that making games for pc where a pc gamer can make tweaks ...that the developer programmed in for the gamer to access to mke said tweaks.. and the game looks better... why is it different for the neo?

For me this has reinforced the "PC Lite" moniker. You can play the same game just with different settings depending on your rig.

I still think eventually PS4Neo will become the standard.

@blakey78 for me it's more the consumer that will render ps4 obsolete. Not immediately, but within a pretty short time period; it's a fact of technology advancing. And I'm just being sore because I don't want to splash out to upgrade but know damn well I will!

Interesting what you say about games being developed in 4k and downgraded. Wasn't aware of this.

this will definitely make the ps4 1st gen a hard sell unless the price drops more. Than I could honestly see the PS4 and PS4K splitting this gen evenly.

Why? for the same reason PC gamers buy a cheaper gpu. because it gets the job done and it's less money. so pending the price drop on the ps4 1st gen, this could work!

I have believe in sony so far .Why doubt them now? Shuhei Yoshida is very respectable and i dont think he will lie to us.

This is actually a high-end ps4 while those impressive scorpio specs make me think of a stealthy Xbox next generation...I wonder what approach will be best, though this is more consumer friendly imho.

@Mergatro1d most movies are produced this way too

@Mergatro1d Games, certainly Multi-platform, are made to 4k standards. The way PC owners decide on how they want their game to run, basically to optimise for their PC Rig is a set of options. Things like the output resolution, quality of Shadows, lighting, particle effects, reflections etc.
The same game is ported to console except these settings are 'hidden' and the developer optimises because all systems are the same. They tweak these to get the game running at a level they believe to be the best for how they envisioned with the hardware available.
Doom (for example) has the same file size on PC as it does on Console yet can run at 4k with ultra setting.
What this means is that developers can 'patch' in a set of 'values' for these settings to improve the visuals on a game once the Neo releases (if they choose) without having a big patch to add new textures, lighting etc to output at higher level.
Going forward, games will have a set of values for the PS4 and a set of values for the Neo. It could be that the 'game' recognises which system you are on automatically or you could have a simple option in the game settings to enable standard or 'Neo' mode. What this will do is change the values of these settings to a different level - for example the PS4 could have output to 1080p, the Neo output to 1440p, Shadows 'Low' on the PS4, Medium on the Neo, reflections 'Low' on the PS4, Medium on the 'Neo', textures medium on PS4, High on Neo etc etc.
Whilst it does put a bit more work onto the developer - optimising for two different levels of hardware, its easier than porting to two different generations as the core system is running the same software. If I was them, I would optimise the lowest spec first as that would highlight 'problem' areas. Once you have done this, you can then focus primarily on these when optimising for the more powerful hardware - the areas that weren't so problematic on the PS4 are unlikely to be problematic on the Neo either.

He's spot on, it won't be the PS4k that shorten's the PS4's lifespan, it'll be Scorpio, and that effectively will end this gen. Sony will need to counter Scorpio with their own console surely.

hey Sammy, so has the actual neo specs been confirmed yet?

Sony won't be overly concerned by Scorpio. Its coming out a year after the Neo and 4yrs into this current generations life-cycle. I still think that the 5th gen Playstation will be released around Q4 2018 - 5yrs into the PS4's life. Not because the Scorpio arrived the year before but because the PS4 is 5yrs old and if you factor in a 'cross-over' phase too - a phase where both generations are receiving 'most' games, as every generation has had, then 5yrs seems about the right time for the PS5.

It might sound a 'bit' early for some but this generation didn't exactly have the same learning curve of previous generations. Within a year, Sony had to unlock its 7th core to developers who needed more performance. It was clear from relatively early on that this Gen would struggle to last as long as last gen.

Its obviously too early for Sony to consider its 5th gen now - as people's misguided attitude towards the Neo is proving. People expect a console to last 5yrs and Sony are releasing the Neo to help the PS4 get that far. Thats still over 2yrs away. Sony will know what games are in development, when they are likely to release and any potential problems developers may have bringing those games to PS4 long before we do. If they need to bring it out 'sooner' to ensure its fanbase get access to all the content/games etc or can hold out a bit longer to make a slightly more powerful or cheaper console than if it was sooner.

Ultimately its Software/Games that decide the life-cycle of a console. As soon as the quality (by that I refer to technical quality *resolution/frame rates etc rather than playability/story etc) starts to drop of because of hardware limitations, that is indicative of a console reaching its end. It has nothing to do with 'market life' (only 3yrs old) and release date. I know people wouldn't be happy to see their console 'replaced' so soon but I bet that wouldn't be happy to be told they can't play a game because their hardware can't cope. It was software that dictated the life cycle of basically every console to date and software that determined when manufacturers bring their next consoles out too!!

What he said ^^^^^^^

I think sony was surprised by escorpio.This will be a diferent kind of war now.

@Neolit The XB1s is just an Xbox One with 4k media (no extra power). The very slight performance differences could be attributed to faster Disc reading on the new 4K bluray or slight variation in more modern parts but it was built to exactly the same specs as the XB1 from a gaming perspective. Mirrors Edge for example will still be 720/60, Gears 4 will still be 1080/30. According to Rod Ferguson who made this claim about it being more powerful, it came about because Gears didn't drop a frame as frequently on the XB1s.
The Scorpio is being talked about as a 4K gaming XB1 but its also the only Xbox that 'VR' has ever been mentioned about. Therefore I can't see how it can be just an XB1 if the Scorpio will get its own Software/hardware (VR games and headset support).

Personally, I think its MS's 'next' gen console although they are being very coy over that to sell the XB1 in the interim. Would people buy an XB1 knowing the next gen is out in a year or so? Maybe with Xbox because of BC and all the talk about bringing your game library with you (pretty much like you can with PC's). Developers are being given time to develop for it too (which again says 'next' gen) and its hardly 'mid-cycle' considering the XB1 is struggling more than PS4 is this gen. All the talk about doing away with 'generations' too implies that this will be a new gen but MS are unwilling to admit that the XB1 is too underpowered to last a 'traditional' generation...

@Remito Sony was surprised by the timing only. I am sure Sony were well aware of the console or at the very least that it was in 'development'. Leaks have been around before the announcement - it was even leaked that it would release in 2017.
I still think it won't affect Sony's plans at all. I am convinced that the PS5 will launch around Q42018 but not as a reaction to Scorpio but as a need to continue bringing games to its fanbase. The launch of the Neo is to ensure that the 4th gen gets there. What it has done though is give Sony an idea as to what level the Scorpio is going to be - they know the GPU, can make an educated guess about the RAM (If that circuit board is accurate - it looks like 12GB of GDDR5x to get the 320MB/s bandwidth) and can now plan their PS5 to better that - not that I think they wouldn't do anyway but the 'guesswork' has gone. MS is only likely to have the most powerful console for a short time.

@BAMozzy i agree 😀.I got to say that it will be really interesting to see how all turns out.

I'm massively pissed off this is even a thing, I have a gaming PC and have to update it as and when. I buy a console for the opposite reason, whether or not you are one of those people who is affected by not being able to play the exclusives you bought the console for in the best possible way (like me) it's a nuisance that the investment I made has been belittled by this updates existence. I hope that not many upgrade so the idea of this kind of being okay doesn't happen ad-infinitum (cough dlc, cough unfinished games, cough day one patches, cough pay to win, cough we are idiots)

_{Watch the language -Tasuki-}

So how much more powerful is the PS4K to the PS4?! I still think the PS4 and Xbox One where no where near powerful enough for the new games!! So to me this seems more like a set of "next gen" consoles! And if there loads of money are people really going to pay all that money for a couple more frames etc?!

Won't it just be a case as with PC systems in that a more powerful computer will play the standard spec's game better? I doubt development teams will want to invest more time and money that will result in a smallish increase to us gamers.

Ive come to the conclusion I don't care about neo or shortening generations or any of that rubbish anymore. I'm keeping my ps4 until it breaks, I will buy a 4k tv with high dynamic range at an affordable price maybe Xmas 2017 - I will take a look at the neo or whatever is out there then. As a 1080p tv owner with no inclination to upgrade its not for me right now. Good luck to those who already have 4k for you the choice is not as obvious.

I think MS is very clever announcing Scorpio now. They lost this gen's war (although hardly a failure themselves), so the only way to get ahead is cut Sony's lead short - by introducing next gen sooner.
One way for Sony to gain the lead back is making PS5 a PSNow game streaming 'box' and never be bound by hardware limitations again (but by 'just' the internet speeds, so a huge impediment atm). It's going to be tough.

@Midzark The PS4 Neo hasn't released any official specs so working out exactly how much more powerful this could be is not accurate at all. Based on the leaked specs though, the GPU is double the size and also clocked a bit (15%) faster. The CPU is identical but again clocked about 30% faster and the memory bandwidth has been increased to so based on those specs, It would be about 2.5x as powerful - around 4.2tflops compared to 1.84tflops.
According to the leaked documentation, Sony are insisting that games must be at least 1080p minimum and the frame rate cannot be 'worse/lower' than the PS4's. What this 'additional power 'could' mean is that games running at 30fps 'could' run at 60fps - whether that happens or not, time will tell. Something like God of War, Days Gone for example would benefit by running at 60fps because of the combat and the hordes. Maybe something like Horizon though could benefit more by running at 1440p with better/higher visual effects (although I would be equally happy if they opted for 60fps.
What this is effectively doing though, is ensuring that games will be at least 1080p for the duration of the 4th generation. There are a number of games at 900p and the number of games releasing at 1080p could drop because of hardware limitations. Its too early to speculate exactly what developers will do with the extra power or exactly how much power it actually has. We don't know if they can boost frame rate to 60fps from 30fps although it shouldn't affect SP gaming. A game like Uncharted 4 for example could have both parts running at 1080/60 instead of the difference we see on the PS4 but whether we would see 60fps in a MP game that only runs at 30 on the PS4 or not, who knows. Based on the Power though, It shouldn't have an issue at running the majority of games consistently at 1080/60 but I wouldn't be surprised if we do see some running at 1440p.
Only you can decide IF you think the increase is worth it. It does depend on the games you play, your TV (on a 4k TV, it upscales the image so the more native pixels, the less it has to 'guess'), how important resolution and/or frame rate is and the way developers opt to use this extra. I think it will be worth it for my circumstances and would be happy if every game releases at 1080/60 with improvements to the visual effects - its better than playing at 900p or 30fps...

@blakey78 you live and learn. Cheers man

@BAMozzy awesome, thanks for this. Makes total sense!

Sounds like they want to start a regular update cycle. Original<update<next generation

The question is how long until we get a situation like Hyrule Legends and we know devs want more power and new tech to play with as i can't imagine sony or MS denying Rockstar to make GTA a Neo/Scorpio exclusive.

My concern is when sony do release the PS5 with a better VR unit and you just brought the Neo with VR, how upset people gonna to be?

@goonow I think it was a combination of events that necessitated a mid-season upgraded console. The fact that technology has jumped significantly would shorten the PS4's life cycle so the mid gen should help to see it out. Its not like we are going to see 8K TV's, A new power sapping peripheral, significant jumps in API and GPU technology all happening in such a short time again - not impossible but unlikely.

@N4LIFE I am sure Sony will tell developers they can't release a Neo only version and by which time I can realistically seeing the PS5 being available. I honestly believe the Neo is not going to affect next gen plans - just because its 2-3yrs old, it could very easily be 'replaced' by PS5 because the 4th gen is 5-6yrs old! The Neo is a MID-term console - therefore I FULLY expect it to be replaced in 2-3 years because it is a MID term console.

If/when Sony do release the PS5 and/or a better VR headset, then they will be doing so because the next 'wave' of software (that's games) will not 'run' adequately on the 4th gen system. I bet the PSVR will be usable on the PS5 anyway - just like Move. I doubt they would bring out PSVR2 that soon - it is just a screen essentially. PSVR2 may have a higher res screen but I expect games to be compatible. As I said if people buy the Neo, a mid term, slightly enhanced PS4 to last 5-6yrs (meaning the PS4 will be 8-9yrs) without being 'replaced' by the PS5, then more fool them - its NOT a new gen, Its not 'compulsory' and required for any games/features etc, Its still tied to the life cycle of the PS4. Would people be upset if they bought a PS4 in the next year or two and then the PS5 launched? I doubt it - they must have realised the generation is 'old' by now - the same applies to the Neo as its still a PS4!!!

@finalstan One way for Sony to gain the lead back is making PS5 a PSNow game streaming 'box' and never be bound by hardware limitations again.

Just bound by latency, plodding download speeds, world wide electricity shortages and hackers. Sounds terrible. I don't understand the rush to the apparently inevitable endgame of playing games on a smart tv or tiny box. What's wrong with playing stuff offline if said crap happens?

Of course games will all of sudden look terrible and perform poorly on PS4 as soon as Neo is released - just look at the game-play shown at E3. So bad that Spider-man looked like CGi and God of War was an assault on my eyeballs!! Days Gone was as bad as the indie games too - absolutely disgraceful how they managed to cram so many enemies on screen at once and you can bet the Neo one will have twice as many and running at 4k/60 too its so 'next' gen hardware...

Of course games like Mirrors Edge and Uncharted 4's MP are running at 900p because of Neo and games like Dark Souls 3, Bloodbourne, the Division etc are only running at 30fps because of it too. In the future, when games don't run at 1080/60, that will still be down to developers overlooking the 40m+ users to focus on the slightly more powerful and less common Neo.

Of course the 'Neo' is also next gen - just like my N64 was when I plugged in an Expansion pack to make 'Turok 2' look better. It also meant I had to hunt around trying to find the cartridge for the enhanced/next gen N64 version of Turok because I didn't want the N64 standard version - it might not run.

Even though Sony insist that no developer can release specific Neo content/features/games and insist it is still a 'PS4', its really just a PS5. Even though the jump from ps3 to Ps4 was over 8x as big, the measly 2.5x times of the Neo represents the next 'generation' of console gaming. Even though my entire library, game saves etc of PS4 games will run exactly the same (unless developers opt to patch in a 'neo' mode), we are entering the next generation of gaming! I better cancel my pre-orders for my limited/special editions of games releasing post-October - just in case Sony release a Neo only version.

Watch out PC owners, Sony's next gen console is coming out this year and its so powerful that its going to get its own games - even though its only powerful enough to run a game like Uncharted 4, God of War, Horizon, Days Gone at 1080/60 instead of 1080/30 and its Backwards Compatible with PS4 too - woohoo!!!

The Most powerful console is getting a slightly more powerful console to help the current most powerful console last a bit longer before needing to bring out the most powerful console to deliver the 'next' gen of games

What the Neo is in essence is a PS4 with an inbuilt expansion pack. It won't run PS5 games when that comes out just EXACTLY the same games/hardware etc that the PS4 can - some with a better resolution and/or frame-rate. Content will be the same - like watching BBC1 in SD or HD - one has a higher resolution. MP/co-op will still use exactly the same lobbies and you won't know if people have the Neo or PS4. It not multi-gen gaming at all - its like 1 friend has a medium spec PC and another has a high spec PC...

These updated consoles are awful. There should only be one system per lifecycle except for "slims". No one wants to pay $350 for a system that lasts 4 years (yeah upgrading isn't required but knowing the games play better would still annoy me in the back of my mind). Back in the day Sega, nintendo, etc would have add ons you could buy for upgrades that just go into a slot in your current hardware, they should do that instead if it wasn't about the $$$ for MS and Sony. Plus due to the Scorpio who knows what will happen now with Sony.

@Pamela
It's about the $$$ for all the companies. And it's not just Scorpio, which is going to destroy the competition in terms of raw power, but it is the NX as well. There's no way Nintendo is releasing a new console less powerful than the PS4. Sony can't just sit there and do nothing.

@Grawlog I for one welcome our PC gaming overlords!

PlayStation VR is what holding the announcement of Neo release date back. Don't want to loose Pre orders of PlayStation VR to opt for a more powerful console and go with that. Let them Buy the VR, then show them the NEO and show them how Neo will make VR a much better experience.

@Kidfried I am a 'parent' and started 'gaming' with pong (at least 1 version of it) as my first console. Around 1980 I had a Vic20 but by 83ish, the C64 had basically replaced that. I also had an Atari 2600 too. In the 80's, most people my age had 'computers' for gaming as consoles were seen more as young kids toys but it wasn't unusual for things to be 'dated' fairly quickly. Often parents were the ones buying these consoles and it was 'rare' to get them at launch - sometimes 2-3years into their life cycle so it was 'common' a new system would be released not that long after.
3years after the Sega master system launched though, the Mega Drive came out, a few years after that the Sega CD and a few years after that the 32x. A few years after that came the Saturn and then the Dreamcast. I don't think more than 4yrs separated any of these. The Add-ons to the Megadrive were not the most successful, but that was in part down to the software. The 32x especially sold poorly but it released a few months before the Saturn but the Saturn was known about before the 32x released. That would be like buying an add-on to your PS4 3months before the PS5 launched yet knowing the PS5 would be launching. The Saturn itself was replaced 3yrs later by the Dreamcast. This was also around the time we had the N64 and PS too. The N64 had an Expansion pack which cannot be considered a failure. Games like Perfect Dark, DK64 and Majoras Mask will testify to that. Majoras Mask wasn't so successful, primarily because it launched so late in the N64's life. Point is there almost always seemed to be the 'next' big thing - whether it was from Sega, Nintendo or even Sony when they joined the Console space. There were of course others that tried to join - like Neo-Geo for example. They didn't release within weeks of each other and last 5-7yrs, It seemed like every year there was something new from one company or the other...
During the 90's we also had the gameboy. A handheld but still a console. Admittedly this didn't evolve very quickly at first, but then we had colour, advance, sp etc etc. As a parent myself, I had kids growing up that wanted the latest gameboy variant which was better than the last. So while home consoles seemed to slow up, the handheld market was forever changing.
If you are 'young' and only really remember the last 5-10yrs of gaming, then of course this is an alien concept to you but old gamers/parents etc know fully well what this is.
The WiiU didn't 'fail' because people didn't understand it, It failed because of 'Software' or lack thereof. Why buy something that was 'underpowered', wasn't able to play the latest games and the 3rd party games it did get, people had played a few years earlier on their 360/ps3's. A few unique games that looked interesting but hasn't really had great software support.
Software ALWAYS determines the success of a console, not the console itself. The Wii had Wii sports which had mass appeal and thats why people bought that in their millions
Sorry to give you a History lesson, but as an older gamer and parent myself, I fully understand the principal behind the Neo. Its too early to say what the Scorpio or NX will be, but I think those are more likely 'next' gen rather than mid-gen 'boost'. Even non-gamers who buy their 'kids' games aren't going to be confused - just buy a game that says PS4 on the box - regardless of if they have a Neo or PS4. I didn't have to buy a different cartridge because I owned the expansion pack - its NOT as confusing as Sega's add-on with their own additional libraries. Its not as confusing as the whole gameboy, DS, 3DS situation....

So if Sony answers this question to websites from around the world we'll get over 100 identical entries on here.

So must u have a 4K tv to play better with ?

Yeah sure. I'll wait and see.