This saga regarding cross-play on the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One is really frustrating, isn't it? As gamers, we obviously want it to happen – but as "industry pundits" (if we can call ourselves that), the way it's being discussed is infuriating. Obviously, Sony has supported cross-platform play with the PC since the early PlayStation 2 days, and it's maintained that stance through until the current generation. Microsoft, barring one or two exceptions, has always been against the feature – until it dramatically changed its stance at GDC earlier this year, putting the ball in the Japanese giant's court regarding cross-console play.
But the way it did it was… A little crafty. In order to engineer a PR win, it didn't give Sony any forewarning, and has left the platform holder publicly scrambling to sort through the Redmond firm's policies, analyse any security issues, and determine whether it wants to support the feature in the first place. For a company supposedly "for the players", it seemingly has no choice but to get behind the initiative – but given that Microsoft's only changed its stance now that it has a significantly depleted player base, it's understandable why the upper-management at PlayStation would be reluctant to go along with it.
The problem for Sony, of course, is that developers are putting the ball in the company's court – and it needs to make a decision one way or the other. A Tekken 7 developer's the latest to drop an "ask Sony" comment regarding the prospect of cross-console play, with Rocket League's Psyonix and Gwent's CD Projekt Red both putting out similar statements. When you consider that the vast majority of Tekken 7's players will be on the PS4, there's no real corporate advantage to Sony supporting this. But it has a real headache here, because you can't bill yourself as the "gamer's choice" by thwarting initiatives like this.
[source twitter.com]
Comments 45
This has ramifications extending farther than people may realize.
If people no longer need to buy the same console as their friends to play with them online, this could put a dent in Sony's sales as people who owned a 360 last gen won't need to switch platforms when upgrading their system.
On the other hand, tables turn quickly. And next gen Sony may not be the one on top. This could work to theur benefit as people wouldn't need to buy an Xbox to play with their friends either.
It's not quite as simple as gamers' wish to play with one another. At the end of the day, there are business involved. It's to my advantage if both companies as healthy as possible--so if Sony would put themselves in a less desirable position by going with cross-console play, I hope they quickly walk away from the table--if they are even at the table. From my point of view, this generation Sony has more to lose by helping Microsoft--and they are competitors after all.
Sony is "for the players" and "gamer's choice", but only for ps4 players and ps4 gamers, not xbox players and gamers. Why the hell sony want to help microsoft with cross-play when microsoft is losing the console war, besides if xb scorpio sold way better than ps4 I'm sure as heck microsoft will be ending the cross-play support. I don't think most ps4 player care they can play with xbox user, the only one that's care is news site and xbox player.
Also if sony doesn't want cross-play support with xbox I don't think playstation user will change side to xbox, where's the multiplayer's lobby is less than populated and there's no exclusives. Hah.
I don't get the "we as gamers want it to happen" stance. Because I certainly don't want it to happen, why should Sony throw a bone to Microsoft just because they all of sudden they are they supposed market leaders they thought they were. If people wanted to play with their friends that badly then they should have got a PlayStation. So no I don't think Sony have to address anything, it's a handful of developers who are mentioning it.
Well it seems like we are all in agreement that Sony has nothing to gain from this this gen, so how do they address it?
My intial reaction was they don't, they just ignore it, but I think I've come up with a better solution.
MS seems to be going all in on PC and Xbox playing the same games, so all Sony has to say is:
"Well its easy for MS to offer X-Play with us, all they need to do is hook up with PS4. But these days MS doesn't seem to know whether they are making hardware to play PC games or console games that play on PC. Once they figure out if they are a PC company or a console company then they can come talk to us."
Maybe not so rude, but the dig should be there. And it is truthful as well. If Sony tries to offer X-play with Xbox 1 it would in effect be opening itself up to PC play as well, and I don't think it's worth the hassle, b/c that can't be as easy.
Some gamers may complain, some always will, but I think most people would understand if Sony said no to cross play while MS tries to figure out Xbox 1 = PC.
Most people don't care.
Why is this the gamers choice? A bit presumptuous isn't? You want Sony to start addressing all the issues in gaming or provide all the features gamers want because it's 'For The Gamers'? All they have to do is offer the best service they can to gamers on PlayStation. Who's actually asking for this? When they really should be addressing payed online, season passes & paywalls because that's what would be best 'for the gamers'. But they won't, because this is a business & from a business standpoint this makes no sense whatsoever. Why the hell would Sony play into Microsofts' 'play anywhere' initiative?
If the Xbox One was outselling the PS4 2.5:1, there would be no chance whatsoever that MS would even consider this.
@rjejr I think what you're missing is that MS isn't confused about being a PC or Xbox company; they're transitioning to a service based company. This strategy for them is bigger than Xbox and PC. It's the same reason why fully blown Office Suite is available on iOS and Android for phones and tablets. With XBONE transitioning to run on Windows 10 based OS they are truly becoming one platform with PC and Xbox. It's simply a matter of which platform the gamer wants to play on. MS is getting to the point where they don't care what hardware you're using as long as you're playing in the Windows environment. So Sony's problem--if you think this is a problem for them--is they are supporting cross platform on PC but not Xbox, but those two are running the same software. So if they continue to not allow cross play with Xbox then there isn't any way to put a positive PR spin on it. They just don't want to allow PS4s to play with XBONEs. And if they don't then they do legitimately lose the ability to say they are for the gamer the way they positioned themselves brilliantly at the PS4 launch at E3 when they attacked the MS used game policy. The question is does that even matter to gamers at this point in the generation cycle?
@rjejr
"But these days MS doesn't seem to know whether they are making hardware to play PC games or console games that play on PC"
They know exactly what they're doing. It's not a mutually exclusive situation. Their bread-and-butter is their software. Platforms are just platforms to play software in a software environment. They don't care if you buy a game for their console or for your PC, the fact remains you're playing it on their software.
They don't have to do one or the other. They dominate PC market with Windows, and own a slice of the console market on the side. And when they make games they use those games to help sell both of those platforms, either/or or both.
Why segregate PC from Xbox when you can integrate them in a way which promotes both. And why wouldn't they? A game sold on X1 is no less a sale than a game sold on Windows PC, and visa versa.
@KratosMD It can happen both ways too, yeah PS4 could lose sales but then again so can Xbox One. How many people bought an Xbox One to be able to play with their friends?
Right now that would be the main reason I get an Xbox One is so I can play games like Neverwinter, BO3, Rocket League etc. with some friends who got Xbox Ones this gen instead of PS4.
Never really wanted or needed crossplay. It would be different if the console did not have a big player base. But it already has that so you never worry about finding games for online play.
Surely it won't take sales from either company? Both have their exclusives and that is what you get the consoles for?
Wow, such gracious "winners" these commenters are, willing to cut off their nose just to kick a dead horse while it's down.
Cross-platform play can be nothing but healthy for gamers and the industry as a whole.
Many of my friends chose to purchase an Xbox One rather than a PS4 because they owned 360s in the previous console generation, and Microsoft has many exclusive franchises they enjoy. I didn't have either a PS3 or Xbox 360 last generation, but felt Sony's console would have more games I was interested in, so I purchased a PS4. When you say, "No one cares about cross platform," you're not speaking for everyone. I'm sure plenty of people would love to be able to play games online with their friends who own both platforms.
It would be great if Sony and Microsoft decided to implement crossplay moving forward. Helps the gamers and the developers, seeing as we'll get to play with more friends and they'll have bigger pools of online players for their games.
I doubt Sony will ever play ball though.
@Fath What do you mean "winners" we're not talking about some race.
@crippyd The only console that I got exclusives is a Nintendo console. Sony and MS I get for 3rd party mainly.
During the PS3 era, I remember reading that Sony were open to cross-platform play with Xbox 360. Can't find the article now, because of course if you search, you get all the talk of the current situation.
Still, at the time, Microsoft of course weren't interested because they had the biggest market share (it was early PS3 days) and had no interest in cooperating with Sony.
And that's exactly why I don't feel Sony have any need to rush and jump through hoops to make this happen.
@adf86 The console war. Sony's squarely won it this generation, but the foundation of the argument against cross-platform play is that the enemy must still be shown no quarter, that no peace can be found until every last filthy MS-lover has been scoured from the Earth.
As with any war, it's prejudice and hatred that are the true enemies, keeping both sides from seeing that they're ultimately the same - all of us gamers, who just want to have fun and play with our friends. Removing roadblocks to that end, that only exist to fan the flames of partisan platform divides, can only be a good thing.
Sony don't have to address this at all. Whether they want it to happen or not is purely up to them. They could allow it on a per game basis rather than make a snap decision and end up with every game suddenly having cross-play or just decide its not in their or their customers interest.
The internet can be a very toxic environment - even between a group that should be united in a common interest - gaming! However opening up the two consoles to play together could be a bad move - How can Sony or MS deal with gamers on the opposing platform if they are abusive etc. MS can't exactly ban or send warnings to PS gamers and vice versa
I don't know if 'chat' and 'mixed platform' parties would be possible and how could you add or search for friends on a different system? Naming could be an issue too as there could be a number of people with the same name but different platforms.
@adf86 Thank you i totally agree. Pushsquare dont say what i want because thats up to me.
@Fath On IGN and Reddit, most probably your right but I think on here most of us are looking at it from the POV that it doesn't make sense for Sony from a business perspective in more ways then one.
Why do anything regarding BC when they could charge full price for a remaster? Get PS3 out of anyone's lexicon by re-releasing its software on PS4. I'd rather they flat out say "It's about the games, not the gen/consoles, so just pony up and get the version for the current platform. You love us because we offer what you want: an uncompromised state-of-the-art gaming experience."
@Bbp55 @JaxonH " MS isn't confused about being a PC or Xbox company"
OK, so MS knows exactly what they are doing. Just like Ntinedo knows what they are doing by not lowering the price of the Wii U for 3 years and keeping the NX a top secret while the world drowns in a variety of rumours.
.
Just b/c MS knwos what they are doing doens't mean that translates well to gamers. All I kept reading during and after E3 were people saying - why should I buy an Xbox if I can play all of the same games on my PC?
So MS might know exactly what they are doing. Just like they did w/ the Zune and their mobile phone biz, everybody plans on having a a $10 billion write down, don't they?
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2956320/smartphones/ballmers-phone-blunder-cost-microsoft-10b.html
No reason for Sony to let MS get a win.
Speak for yourself.
I do not want this (console cross-play) to happen.
Not to mention such a move at this time would benefit the competition more than it would Sony.
I say, no thanks.
I feel like a lot of people here are getting Cross play mixed up with Backwards compatibility.
Sony doesn't have to address the cross play issue because when they were looking for it last gen Xbox said no. "Now look at my eyes Microsoft.Look at me... I am the Captain Now!
@adf86 Yeah, it usually doesn't make business sense to be pro-consumer, but Sony claims to be "For the Players," so they should, y'know, actually be putting their money where their mouth is.
Being such a devoted fan that you're cheering for your corporation to be anti-consumer in order to maximize profit and market share... it's weird, to say the least.
@rjejr Ballmer was an idiot. He is also no longer in charge. Nadalla has changed the focus of MS to become a software and services company (again) because that's where the true money is. Every generation of Xbox and PlayStation console lost money on the hardware for the first few years. They needed an installed base of users and the software made up the losses. That's what MS is doing now. You're staying too focused on the console hardware. In enabling Play Anywhere across Windows devices MS has effectively made every Windows 10 device an Xbox. They don't care if you play on Xbox, PC, Surface tablet, laptops running Windows 10--it's all software sales. Not only that, but to enable Play Anywhere you have to buy a digital copy on the Xbox marketplace--you know, the thing they wanted at launch and Sony capitalized on to get the "For The Gamer" moniker to begin with. So they really don't care if people are now saying "I won't buy an Xbox, I'll play on PC" because at the end of the day you're still buying the high margin digital software from them.
@rjejr And by the way, MS dominated the mobile phone OS market until the iPhone. They reacted too slowly and didn't recognize the seismic shift happening in the mobile market. The Nokia purchase was the last blunder Ballmer would make in attempting to buy their way into relevance again in mobile. Sometimes leaders don't see the future coming and they pay for it. If you want a relevant example, just look at Xbox Live, implemented with the first Xbox. Sony didn't recognize how broadband console gaming would change the way games are played, and it cost them a generation with the PS3.
@rjejr
Just because a product fails doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. Zune was a good product, but markets are harsh and competition is fierce. Should learn that just because a company has a product that fails does not mean they are incompetent.
"Why should I buy an Xbox"
And that's a fair question and people should ask that. And I'm sure Microsoft is smiling because guess what, PC means Windows. Why should they care if a person buys Xbox or PC to play games? Just because you make it a big deal doesn't mean it is to them.
Hence why you think they don't know what they're doing because he you have a certain way of thinking, and you're thinking tells you that the Xbox must sell and the PC is dragging it down therefore they don't know what they're doing, yet Microsoft is probably behind closed doors with the master strategy of pushing their platform and couldn't care less.
Uniting Xbox and PC is good. Good for gamers, good for MS. Let MS worry about the ramifications for Xbox brand, but I can tell you now they are doing it for a reason. You think they devised this master plan of cross play games and not one person stopped to think "hey this might impact Xbox". They know.
Doesn't matter though. 6 in one, half a dozen the other. Total sales between Xbox and PC will not change. If anything it will increase due to the appeal of crossbuy value. Like my brother tonight who told me he's now gonna buy an Xbox One because of the BC and cross play. Again I say, they know what they're doing.
Even with Nintendo I can promise you they have reasons that you and I are not aware of. We sit here in recliners and judge the actions of multibillion-dollar corporation based on information from fansites and tweets. Judge the actions of multibillion-dollar corporation's based on information from fansites and tweets. I don't know their reasoning nor do I understand it but I can assure you they have their reasoning. Just because you're not aware of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Nice and all, but how exactly would this be going?
Where would the party be? On PS4 or Xbone? How would that work I wonder....?
Or is party chat not supported? I assume it must be, otherwise what's the point if you can't chat with your friends on the other console....
I personally don't care....Most of my friends have a PS4.
@BlaBlaBla Yea. majority of console gamers are on PS4 anyway. The problem with Xbox is, games that is not COD like tekken, dark soul, etc will not have enough active players.
Not too fussed either way. I can see an advantage for less popular online games where a larger pool of players is definitely a good thing. So that would be good. But I leave it to Sony to decide what is best.
Cross-buy and the fact that 'exclusives' are available on Xbox and PC (Win 10 only) is NOT a bad thing. So Xbox doesn't have the traditional 1 platform 'exclusive' that Sony has but that doesn't make it bad. Sony has 40-45m PS4 owners, XB1 around half of that but MS also has a higher number of gamers in its ecosystem than Sony does to cater for. Having a much higher user base has its benefits, more potential sales for developers (both first and 3rd Party) - more revenue, more money to invest. If you look at it from a purely 'sales' perspective, Sony's first party exclusives are reliant on its PS4 user base only. MS has Xbox and PC owners. It will be interesting to see if games like Forza Horizon 3, Gears 4 etc sell more than Uncharted 4 overall. Of course that doesn't mean these are 'better' of course. MS have an obligation to PC gamers - in particular those on Win 10. They cannot be seen to be favouring one of the other. Whilst it may seem bad for those brought up with the traditional concept of the 'exclusive' for those of us who also own an Xbox, PC or both, its a positive thing. Whilst it may seem that Xbox is 'losing' its exclusives to PC, its possible that it could gain games that were originally planned for PC only too. Combining the two has instantly increased the user base significantly! The PC user base isn't 'every' PC owner, its Win10 only users. Its more like an Xbox on PC, same gamertags, same Achievements etc. So whilst it seems like its on 2 platforms - its more like just 1 - but the 'hardware' is 'different'.
It looks like MS are also bringing aspects of PC gaming to Console. Games don't become obsolete when you buy a new PC, new upgrade etc - this is what MS want to bring to Console. It won't be seen as Backwards Compatibility but just the opportunity to keep playing your 'Xbox' library. Some games could 'benefit' from the 'upgrade' - depending on the way they were developed/optimised etc, but in the future, games will just be 'Xbox' branded. On the back it may say minimum required 'Scorpio' - like PC games - but you won't have to start again with each new generation and abandon your old games.
As for cross platform play, I thought a lot of the reason it was not possible was down to the OS, the difference in architecture and the different servers used. Xbox has always been DirectX based and PS use OpenGL. PC's can use either and so its much easier to have cross platform play but the Consoles only use one or the other.
Didn't Sony want cross play with the 360 last gen when they were trailing and MS walked away from it? It's a popular tactic it seems. MS was lambasted then for not going through with it and now they're being made fun of for requesting it. Come on guys.
As long as there are games offering online multiplayer this SHOULD matter to gamers. Whether you are a fan of CoD, Battlefield, World of Tanks, or Neverwinter the games are more fun when the ques are full of other people who want to play. This means match making time is shorter and the MMO population is healthier for everyone. That is how you see this beyond a fanboy discussion.
@shosbu Sigh, that would be great, but fanboys are just so dang noisy. They'd rather one of these companies fold eliminating competition and innovation.
If people have notice PS4 & PC cross-play is only done with a few select games, not every game is cross-play and there is a reason for that.
@JaxonH "Just because a product fails doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. "
I'm pretty sure having your product fail is the standard definition of not knowing what you are doing.
" Why should they care if a person buys Xbox or PC to play games?"
B/c MS spends millions of $ on R&D for creating their Xbox, it's their hardware, if it fails, they fail. MS does not make a single PC. If a PC company goes out of business, fine, they don't lose any money, they just sell their OS to a different PC manufacturer. When XBox fails, they lose money on the hardware. Simple as that.
@Bbp55 "because at the end of the day you're still buying the high margin digital software from them"
Then why make Xbox? Why not make PCs? M Smakes Surface tbalets, but they don't make PCs. So why make an Xbox if they just want people to buy software that runs on PCs?
And really, how many games does MS even make that they are making money on sales? Sales on 3rd party games, yes, but not from them. And I won 'tlook it up right now, but I'll bet you that MS makes MORE money on every copy f a gme sold on XBox than they do on PC. How much money does MS get when a 3rd party title is sold on Steam anyway? But every game sold on Xbox they probably get a cut. Even all those indie games.
I'm sorry, but you'll never convince me they make more money from games on PC than on XBox. They do make more money from Windows, which runs on a lot of those PCs, but that has nothing to do w/ gaming. Everybody has a PC these days, whether they game or not. And businesses have PCs which are probably not making MS a lot of money for it's gaming dept.
"and it cost them a generation with the PS3."
I think trying to charge $500-$600 for a videogame console cost them more than any online issues. And it didn't cost them a generation, Wii sold 100mil, Xbox 360 80mil, PS3 80 mil, thats' fairly close. What isn't close is Wii U, that did cost Ntinedo a generation, 100mil Wii, 13mil Wii U. That's almost as bad as MS and smartphones, only Ninteod didn't blow $10B on Nokia.
@rjejr In order to get the Play Anywhere benefit you have to buy from the Windows marketplace, not Steam. This is allabout growing that marketplace as well so it can compete with Steam as a software provider. They are still making an Xbox because they want to appeal to console gamers. They don't manufacture PCs because they don't have to. There are plenty of 3rd party manufacturers to assume that cost. Besides most PC gamers make their own custom rigs so it doesn't make sense for MS to try and sell hardware to them. They absolutely get a cut of every game sold on Xbox marketplace--I believe it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 30%--and I would assume they get nothing from Steam sales on 3rd party titles. And I wasn't saying they'll make more money on games for PC. It will all be the same coming from the Xbox marketplace. They're just expanding who they can sell to by roping in PC gamers.
The fact that you point out that everyone has a PC is the exact reason they are doing this. They're unifying gaming on all devices running Windows 10. They're broadening where Xbox games can be played. Another commenter pointed out that this will allow them to incrementally upgrade hardware and not making the games in your library obsolete. This is the current backward compatibility on the XBOne.
Look, I understand what points you're making, and if we were talking about only consoles I'd agree with you 100%. But you're missing the bigger picture from MS as a whole. It's part of the same plan that made MS shift gears and release mobile Office on iOS and Android. If people are using your software and paying to do so let them do it on whatever device they choose. It's why Windows Mobile failed recently, because people were invested in the apps and ecosystem of iOS and Android so they weren't changing hardware. App developers weren't developing for Windows Phone because of the small install base. Ballmer tried to buy their way into relevance and as you have pointed out that failed. Nadalla is taking the opposite approach. Meeting the customer base where they are. Giving them the software for whatever device they are using. This move with Unified Windows is pulling gaming into that bigger picture.
Sony is fighting tooth and nail to keep their dominance in the console gaming market that they have enjoyed for going on two decades now. MS is trying to change how the game is played. We will see how it plays out.
@Bbp55 Did Microsoft really dominate the mobile market? And if so, where? I can't recall ever owning a MS phone in 17 years and the number of people I've known with one is low.
@stevejcrow I should have qualified that to say they dominated with enterprise consumers with Windows mobile prior to 7. Basically before the iPhone the mobile smartphone market was used primarily by business users and Windows CE had 56% of the market. Blackberry OS was second with 19%. At that time you were probably still using a sidekick or Motorola Razr at the time. The iPhone, as well as 3G technology, is what brought smartphones to the masses.
I read something else you to use Xbox live for Minecraft what a joke. This shows that MS are rats and everyone buys into this. 🤣🤔😟
@Fath I loved the last filthy MS part so funny.
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