Ever since PlayStation Europe chief Jim Ryan’s unfortunate choice of words on indie games, there’s been a spate of hot takes about how Sony’s abandoned the scene. It’s taken us at Push Square Towers by surprise, seeing as only a few months ago we were writing articles arguing against PlayStation Store curation. Y’see, a string of sub-par digital downloads prompted an alternative hot take from the very same gaming press earlier this year: why are so many games allowed on the PlayStation 4? If you’re feeling dizzy, then so are we.
If you missed the original quotes, Ryan essentially explained that the reason there were no indie games in the company’s E3 2017 press conference last week is because it feels it’s already legitimised the indie scene and it’s now trying to do the same with PlayStation VR. It’s fair to argue that it could do both (though we’re sure commenters on websites just like this one would be the first to complain) but the executive also pointed out that it has other venues for indie titles, like the PlayStation Blog or its own PlayStation Experience event – which played host to almost 100 playable indie games just six months ago.
Running a website always gives you a greater appreciation for a console’s catalogue, and honestly, the assertion that Sony’s no longer coveting indie games is absurd to us. There are so many titles releasing on the PlayStation Store these days that we’ve long had to scrap our ambition to review everything: we pick and choose the things that we think you’ll find most interesting – and that even means (sadly) declining passionate requests for coverage from some teams. Across the months of March, April, and June, our review docket consisted of almost 100 games – many of them indie.
In fact, how many high-profile indie games (not in Early Access) can you name that aren’t already available for or planned to release on the PS4? Aside from titles tied up in Xbox exclusivity like Cuphead, we’re really struggling. No doubt such titles exist – the indie scene is very big – but the two highest profile ones we would have mentioned, Undertale and Superhot, were both announced for Sony’s console at E3 2017. Go figure.
To be fair, there are questions to be raised. Sony has clearly pulled funding from some of its external development endeavours – God of War developer Santa Monica no longer appears to be in the publishing business, with many of its key personnel moving to Annapurna Interactive – and the drama involving RiME remains a high-profile example of that. We’d love to ask first-party chief Shuhei Yoshida what's going on, but we’re pretty sure that his response would involve a reallocation of resources to new initiatives like PlayStation VR and PlayLink.
So, if the release schedule suggests Sony still loves indie games and its actions at events like PlayStation Experience and E3 2017 (albeit not on the press conference stage) suggest otherwise, then what effectively has changed? The only conclusion we can come to is that the platform holder doesn’t have an evangelist for the space anymore – in fact, it’s lost a lot of public facing names in the last few years. Adam Boyes is probably the biggest loss (he’s returned to development with Iron Galaxy), but Nick Suttner (now at Oculus) and Shahid Ahmad (currently rekindling his bedroom development roots) also spring to mind.
And perhaps this is the lesson that Sony needs to take from E3 2017: it’s lost a lot of speakers who connected strongly with the core gaming community, and no one’s really filled those shoes yet. It’s a shame because it’s clear that business behind-the-scenes is still the same as it’s always been – in fact, we daresay there will be some PlayStation employees that will be deeply hurt by suggestions that it’s fallen out of love with indies especially.
But what people like Adam Boyes did is reflect that internal passion externally, and there’s no one really evangelising the indie space – and PlayStation as a whole – right now. It’s something that (from an optics perspective) the platform holder needs to fix, because while we’re sure big-wigs like Shawn Layden and Jim Ryan are wonderful at their day-to-day jobs, it’s important for PlayStation to have amiable figureheads who not only feel comfortable connecting with core fans, but also serve to effectively reflect the company’s mantra for everyone on the outside to see.
Do you think Sony's fallen out of love with indie games, or is this just a big storm in a teacup that doesn't really reflect reality? Bring back that IndieStation misnomer in the comments section below.
Comments 37
PlayStation will always be a wonderful solace for Independent developers. While they didn't have much attention this year at the E3 press conference, I think it's safe to say we'll see much more support each month with PlayStation Plus and at PSX later in December.
Sony seem to be showing a new indie trailer almost everyday on their youtube channel and as we all know, they are given them away every month on IGC too. Its damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to E3 or other big shows. Maybe they feel PAX is a better place for these.
Its no secret I prefer AAA games overall, but I do think there is a place for 'indies' and whilst I do think some are not great or at least not games that appeal to me, maybe more would find games that appeal to them if they were given more coverage.
As I have said before, I would rather see everything (or at least most) of what games I can expect to come in the next year - and that includes indie games. Whilst the big AAA games may grab the headlines, I would rather see the indies that are due out in the next year rather than see games at least 12months away let alone 2-3yrs away.
One thing people need to realise is that jim Ryan =/= Sony, he's a rep but everywhere there's an article about things he had said always painted it as Sony as a whole but Yoshida and layden have been doing equal amount of interviews lately without saying any such nonsense. Heck in this specific case he was taken out of context anyway!
At least we still have Gio Corsi! He manages to be an evangelist for Indies AND the Vita!
TBH, @ShogunRok and I have been very surprised Asad Qizilbash hasn't been getting more stage time:
He is Sony's best public speaker by a country mile, and he comes across wonderfully in interviews. It's shocking they're not putting him up more.
A fine article @get2sammyb. But I think Gio Corsi is taking that helm of showing off that passion, with Vita at least at PSX. I mentioned this before, but PlayStation is clearly shifting their focus to their AAA games now, I can't blame them. Really interested to see how PSX 2017 will turn out.
Thank god 🙏🏽🙏🏽....maybe we'll actually get games that don't suck 😐😐
More hard boiled chicken!!!
I think Sony wanted to showcase more gameplay of its 1st party games and show more of psvr titles. Sony will always love indie games and always received them with open arms. I think on psx we will see a lot of indie games and exclusive game surprises.
I don't think they've stopped caring necessarily, but perhaps there was a greater focus in previous years because they filled a very obvious gap in Sony's release schedule. Now Sony has more of their own games coming out and ready to show. In terms of shifting funding and resources, it is a shame, but given the expense of making modern AAA games perhaps it enables them to continue making the very narrative driven single player games they're known for. The number of indie games releasing these days is enormous, but they are always showcasing some on their blog or youtube channel - it's actually how I find out about a lot of them and get interested in buying them.
In any case, E3 isn't the be all and end all - many sites have noted its waning importance. Sony always show loads of indie games at PSX and I think it's actually a better environment. They also have their long running digital deals promotion on PSN (in Europe at least) and indie games are offered as part of PS Plus which gives enormous exposure. They're also well highlighted on the store itself. I actually wonder if giving it away with PS+ partly contributed to Rocket League's success.
@Slime_Rothstein What a massive bull there are more then enough great games. And tons of great Indies that you are to closeminded to see a gem that is your problem. Getting kinda sick and tired when people react stupid and act like Indies are all terrible. I cant wait to play Housemarqe plus Devolver make great games and Hellblade and many great games released.
@Flaming_kaiser No...😐...I actually prefer games that don't look like nolan bushnell made them on Microsoft paint...if that makes me closed minded so be it....I get the whole retro vibe...considering I've had consoles since consoles have been a thing...but it's 2017...devs should be moving forward...not backward....I've spent...and will spend good money to maintain that modern look that next gen offers....you one of those people that'll lose their mind because ms.pac-man got a reboot 😐
Nintendo needs to drop indies too!
Most are crap!
More often than not they are justt side-scrolliing platformers. So damned boring!
For every one good game, there are 1000 bad ones.
I don't care. I want to see AAA games at E3. They are right, indie games are for PSX and other conventions. Not that they are bad, but I want to see the big games.
Maybe they didn't really showcase them at E3 because really, once you've seen one 8 bit "retro" nostalgia game, you've seen them all. I don't think it's good business strategy to showcase games that could have been made 20 years ago.
If they do an MS and show us 42 games then it becomes a mess, it's a non issue. Sony isn't at E3 to offer free advertising to a few random third party indie games, how's that fair on the rest.
Digital sales are huge now and bigger everyday, a curated store page for indie titles and special offers is more useful and we already get this kind of now, we can also pre order a lot of indie titles on the store now too. There's no need for Sony to put on a big E3 show and in the middle shove in a puzzle platform 2d side scroller a walking sim and a 16 bit roguelike, they can be advertised somewhere more appropriate.
Something a lot more helpful for indie games is if Sony finally put on the PS4 PSN store the 'wanted list' I believe it's on the desktop website.
Sony still get indies, they don't promote it in e3 anymore though. Stil, some big name indies like undertale and pyre is console exclusive to ps4.
I still see the store flooded with them each week. I don't think indie fans need to worry.... Unless their PS+ is running out =O
@get2sammyb he's also got the coolest name in the business
@Gold_Ranger @Slime_Rothstein If you really think that most indie games are "crap", then you should probably pay more attention to the indie scene. Games such as Shovel Knight, Undertale, Superhot, Stardrew Valley, Limbo, Inside, Hyper Light Drifter, Gone Home, Axiom Verge, Rime, Super Meat Boy, and the Binding of Isaac are all games that many would consider as some of the best and most innovative games over the past few years. Yes, there are some bad indie games, as there are some bad games made by other companies, but to call all indie games "crap" is really doing injustice to some of the best games around, since whilst they might not have realistic graphics, many do still look very good with interesting art styles, and the gameplay, story and music is some of the best you'll find.
Indie games are there and are awesome (or dross, there are plenty of both). The issue is promotion. I don't see Sony funding games as much. I loved Bound as well as EGTTR but I can't see Sony funding these any more and then promoting. As someone who doesn't have time to follow indie games I need promotion from Sony and the media to show off the big developments.
Sony's E3 stage was a baffling, odd, odd, odd middle finger to indies. No amount of corporate media trained talk from them can quite cover that fact up.
i think it was because Microsoft had a focus on Indies at this years E3 so Sony decided to focus on something else, that way it wouldn't look like they were just following MS (who for some reason ALWAYS gets first showing of the big 3, hmm the American companies getting top billing at an American event, who would have guessed)
i reckon we might see more Indies at the PlayStation Experience or one of the other events, just because they didn't focus on it at E3 doesn't mean they abandoned them and besides i think E3 should be for the big hitters anyway
Seems they still support plenty of indie devs to me. I think they wanted to make money off of indie exclusivity with Rime (and others we don't know about), then figured they have to pump that exclusivity money into PSVR.
They're spreading themselves thin and have to perform a balancing act.
Good to see Sony pushing the AAA games as there are so many awesome AAAs coming out and they need attention nd coverage too..
Here's some content for thought that Sony has and will continue to support Indies...
http://sirusgaming.info/2017/06/indie-dev-sony-has-been-so-supportive-microsoft-didnt-show-interest/
I think an understanding needs to be they have been using major event formats like E3 etc to highlight their first party offerings that have been baking for a while as those events are geared towards those formats but places like PAX, Gamescom, and PSX will continue to showcase Indies, and as I mentioned before they have their southeast Asia developer initiative that is still ongoing that will support games like Lost Souls Aside etc..
@BranJ0
Never once did I say all.
I said most!
@FullbringIchigo I still think that Sony should show Indies - just because MS did, doesn't mean that Sony is 'copying'. I think Sony should show at least the majority of titles - AAA blockbusters and/or 'Niche', VR games and Indies. It shows a more diverse collection and something for everyone.
Keeping to just the 'year' ahead would also give Sony a reason to show these rather than replace it with some game(s) that may be 18months or more away.
Some of the games that impressed at MS's briefing were 'indies' - games like Ori, The Last Night, The Artful Escape, Tacoma, Cuphead, Ashen etc as well as some of the ID@Xbox games shown in a montage.
One of the things that Sony's briefing was criticised over was 'diversity' - how a lot of the games had a certain 'similarity' and/or theme - quite dark with a 'Naughty Dog' aesthetic.
Its not as if Sony haven't got a more diverse line-up. Apart from the 3rd Party games, only the Last Guardian and Horizon:ZD launched from last years E3 but we have had a lot of other 'big' games, indies etc. Its not as if Sony had to 'limit' their show just to an hour so they could have extended it to include Indies as well as games like Knack 2 and GTSport.
I know some may not enjoy all the indies but more people own a PS4 to play these on than a VR headset for VR games. Both categories can be shown - even if its just a 10min or so pre-recorded video section with the trailers just 1 after the other.
@BAMozzy oh i'm not saying some of the games at the XB E3 didn't look good, they did i was just saying maybe Sony wanted to make their conference as different to MS as they could to show what was unique about the PS4, in comparison to the XB1
plus there was also the devolver digital showcase so they may also have thought there was enough Indie games on show already
However much V.R. does nothing for me I would rather Sony showcase it more and if that means pushing indie games out then so be it for the good of the players.
PS4 is the indie console. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling themselves.
I am happy that Undertale will be released on PS4. I obviously don't like all indies but there are some gems in there, while I haven't enjoyed some of the critical darlings.
A couple of minutes of footage won't break the bank, though.
bring on the VR games!
Found this article on PlayStationLifeStyle about an indie developer that ties in with this topic http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/06/25/dev-talks-ps4-indie-games-support/
I agree with him as far as showing a lot of different games in such a short space, and it absoultely doesnt mean, in my eyes, they are dropping support or "falling out of love" with Indies.
As far as them all being "crap", thats absurd.
They often seem to be exempt from criticism but there are most definitely a good few exceptional Indies out there.
But lets not pretend they are all good, the marketplace on Steam is saturated wity absolute garbage 😂
@get2sammyb - i agree that azad qizilbash would be the natural choice to be that adam boyes type figure.
PS4 is almost 4 years old, by now i would guess that indie devs don't require as much input/assistance from the sony xdev team (or other studios) as they might have done early in the PS4's life when they were less familiar with the devkit. given the number of indie games released every month on the PSN store, i'd say sony have more than met the remit to get more indie games and more indie devs exposed to the PS4 marketplace. it's now trying to do the same for VR.. and a lot of independent developers are experimenting with VR experiences. much like early in the PS4 when indies filled in lulls in the AAA release schedules, i'd say sony is pursuing a similar strategy with VR, and they see the indie developers as important as they have been for PS4 til now.
99% of the time Indie Games are a waste of both time and money. I have over 100 indie games on my PS4 and there was maybe only 1 or 2 that I generally liked and played more than a half hour. I finally said enough is enough, now the only Indie games I get are the trash bin games they pile on you as part of PS+. Avoid the Noid!
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