Nintendo Putting Pressure on Sony to Remove Dreams Creations on PS4

Shame. Just let it be. I hope others don’t get removed (but they will). It’s a shame Sony can’t just ignore them entirely.

ffs.

i hope fans will show their disappointent so that nintendo will reverse their stance.

But these creators arent making a profit from these levels so I don't see the problem.

Ah yes, Nintendo's cease tradition. Always disappointing to see this stuff happen from any big publisher. iirc Sony also did that to a PC edition of LBP.

What next, nintendo suing 5 year old for drawing a picture of Donkey Kong on xerox paper

Or, Sony could just grow a pair and revisit the City of Heroes ruling.

@TheNewButler That's BS. No part of a fan creation in dreams is going to cost Nintendo money.

Marvel tried this crap already with City of Heroes and rightly lost in court.

Let's remember that, even if the creators of these minigames aren't making any direct profit, Sony/Media Molecule still are. IIRC, a lot of the most popular creations in Dreams have Nintendo-related content. They could be a reason why some people might pick up Dreams to begin with (that's why Nintendo isn't targeting individuals but Sony instead). We also need to consider that some streamers are profiting from streaming these too. At the end of the day, they are entitled to protect their IP, we like it or not.

They really don’t care about their fans and seeing the swarm of defenders on NLife makes me think that the fans don’t understand that major corporations are money-making monsters, no matter how fun and kid-friendly their content is. If Dreams was on Switch, there’d be a lot less defenders.

Remember the great Flappy Bird controversy of 2014? lol

@TheNewButler the content doesn't ship on the disc. It is independently created by remote users and is not for sale.

There's no direct 'game' to compete with.

As I said before Marvel couldn't manage to convince a judge that City of Heroes was infringing IP when players were creating their own Hulks and Wolverines - this is no different.

@nessisonett If it was on Switch, Nintendo would have no problem, they have a couple games with user-created content. Big exception with 1 to 1 recreations of levels from existing Mario games in Mario Maker.

@KALofKRYPTON for some reason people always flip out when Microsoft and Sony do something like this but when Nintendo does it everyone shrugs it off as if it’s just the way things are.

@AhmadSumadi they do have a rep for always being so stuck up with thinking that nintendo never does something wrong compared to the other consoles.

wrong ofcourse since nintendo have a rep for being stuck up their own arse when it comes to even youtube walktroughs of their games. srsly sometimes they copyright claim a youtube vid about their games. unless you're a known nintendo product buyer than it's ok.

Apparently MM have a list of developers who have given the ok for fan reimaginings of their ip. I strongly suspect Sega are one of them as they seem happy to support fans remaking sonic.

Nintendo just being Nintendo here

@TheNewButler Marvel, winners at settling out of court? Not likely. They couldn't win the case based on individuals using content creation tools within a game environment to make obvious representations of Marvel characters. Couldn't win.

I absolutely hope Sony challenge it.

Lol someone is picking up Dreams for it's tools & MM Games, no ones buying Dreams for a fan made ( unprofessional ) Mario level. I am amazed Nintendo took this long. And Sony taking down LBP Restitched on PC is a lot different to not even a fan made level, and these so called fans making LBP are in a total different league to gamers that haven't got a clue about Game development.

Nintendo is easily the most anti consumer of the big 3. Got news for you. Astro dumps all over the latest Mario. I only have a Switch because i won it with a 30$ raffle ticket. The way they dumped on Wii U owners still leaves a bad taste.

@nessisonett nintendo rabid is the worst kind. They are bigger sheep than any Song or MS fan. I try to appreciate them all but Nintendo is a very frustrating company

@TheNewButler It was quite clearly settled as the majority of Marvel's case was thrown out and they didn't have enough for a convincing trial showing.

This is Nintendo making themselves look spiteful... again.

Out of interest, where do you stand on fan art?

I hope the creators get to keep their hard work and access it privately. Otherwise I'm glad this is happening. For Dreams to be worth purchasing, in my opinion, it should have original content made by community, not hundred of tasteless platformers all trying to copy existing IPs.

At first it sounds childish for Nintendo to go after amateur dreams users, but after thinking about it, this is not drawing mario on paper, this is potentially recreating an entire mario game (i saw a premature, but good attempt on mario 64) playable on a ps4. Nah, they're not liking that.

@kyleforrester87 exactly, all this non profit talk but Sony are making money from this and effectively having Mario advertising their game

@Pete_Stooge also if you drew on paper your friend wouldn't have to pay Sony £35 to look at your drawing

@TheNewButler
It isn't marketed with Mario, I only know there's Mario stuff within Dreams because of articles like this one. Drams levels aren't published far and wide, or sold, even for the most part, seen by anyone other than Drams players.

@carlos82 How? How is Mario advertising the game?

MatPat covered this in his fan-art video:

• The art you make is yours, not the content is not. The company can't claim it, because they didn't make the art and you can't publish it because the content is copyrighted.

Therefore, the best approach is to make it and not publish it. If you have a top of the line lawyer, or you can represent yourself in court (provided you have the license to do it), you'd win this case easy. It's a non-profit project and clearly for educational purposes (Fair Use).

I read the exact same comments quite often on Nintendo Life. Mario is probably the biggest and most iconic videogame IP of all time, and I am not sure Nintendo would still exist today without it.
Everyone knows there will be a lovely letter for from Nintendo for any IP infringement, and yet people keep doing it... It makes you wonder why people keep doing it.

@KALofKRYPTON I've seen countless articles across the internet and videos on YouTube called Mario in Dreams or Mario 64 in Dreams, I'd say that's pretty good advertising

@nessisonett fans aren't something to care for, fans are something to survive in spite of. As for "the swarm of defenders", there are also human voices which precisely remember that Nintendo is a corporation and it's about business - which warrants a simple customer/business relationship without EITHER side obliged to worship the other. But unsurprisingly, 99% of "Nintendo doesn't care" comments come bundled with fanminded implications that Nintendo SHOULD care. OR ELSE. There are few unpleasant truths fanship rejects more adamantly than the notion of its own complete dispensability.

@Callmegil "Therefore, the best approach is to make it and not publish it."

People are finally starting to embrace this seeming piece of rocket science?

They better not take down Wario gets in a car wreck...

Serious note though: "Nintendo despises it when its fans do cool, non-profit things with its intellectual property..."

As a Nintendo fan it hurts, but it's true. The most prominent example in my mind is AM2R. It's understandable what with Samus Returns having been in development, but AM2R was a seriously fantastic game, and I don't think the creator was making a penny off that. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Dang!!!! Sony is gonna be sued alot this year, you have angry ps fans that are gonna try and sue Sony for false advertising for Horizon Zero Dawn as an exclusive and now Nintendo is pressuring Sony..can't blame Nintendo for protecting their IP so I hope Sony makes the right choices.

Screw Nintendo.

Greedy move to stifle creativity.

This isn't hurting anyone, if anything it helps promote Nintendo.

The creators aren't profiting from this. How much money is enough? Nintendo is loaded. Ppl please boycott Nintendo and voice your anger.

@AhmadSumadi this seems more anti consumer than cross play and what ever else people complain at Sony about. I agree with you. Playing dreams isn't stopping me from buying Nintendo products.

Mario is older then many of those saying that a 37 years old Nintendo icon should be in a Sony game.
Internet makes people believe that everything is free and magically coming from nowhere, as if there is no work behind it.

Sony should let them use Kratos or Crash for Smash, that should keep them happy.

😉

Seriously though this is a bit sad really.

@Devlind do u actually play Dreams? Sony DOES NOT advertise ANY creations that use copyrighted material.

Nintendo related creations are but a tiny fraction of the content overall and ppl have been doing this since LBP. It hurts nobody and in actuality it helps promote Nintendo.

Creators don't profit off their creations and Sony doesn't advertise Nintendo related content. They actually discourage the use of copyrighted material and they promote original content within Dreams.

All this does is make Nintendo look like greedy pricks who want to stifle creativity. It wasn't hurting anyone, in fact, Dreams is what this industry needs. Nintendo should be supporting this creative revolution not tearing it down.

I have little influence, but the 636 followers I do have will be put on notice and encouraged to boycott Nintendo. They want a war, they got it. Dreams is about creativity and togetherness, they picked the wrong game and our community is passionate!

I’m always surprise for people wish to reproduce copyrighted images and produce fanart rather than doing their own thing. I noticed a lot of you use copyrighted images or fanart as your profile pictures.

Why do you do that instead of creating something yourself?

Do you have a permission of the content creators to use the images you’re using as profile pictures?

Most companies don’t care and they’re certainly not going to lose their copyright because others are using their work in a non-commercial way.

@andreoni79 If Sony created the content, I would agree, but they didn't. Nor do they advertise it.

This is dramatically different than if Sony just made a standard game and threw Mario in. Sony created a toolset for ppl to create art. I believe this is incredibly uncool of Nintendo as non of the creators are profiting off this and in reality the Nintendo creations in Dreams hardly impact sales of bottom line. There are hundreds of thousands of creations and eventually millions. Out of all that I saw four legitimately playable Mario creations and one Yoshi interactive scene. And Dreams isn't even some multi million big money seller with microtransactions. It's a $40 game with no MTs or DLC and ongoing support/free content. It's a game for the ppl and Nintendo looks awful by doing this.

@Ryall well why do ppl make fan art or fan fiction? It's virtually the same thing. And there are far more original creations in Dreams than those based on copyrights.

@iamtylerdurden1 Surely Nintendo's way of protecting their IPs may look retro and sad, but they have the right, literally, to act like that.
Fan creations are ok, but honestly this is too much, since a fan (or someone paid to create a fan-like creation) can rebuild entire games with Dreams, which could become (and earn money as) a publisher of any content.

Nintendo can go (you know what) themselves. They have great games but man they do not know how to be user friendly, youtube friendly and are certainly not good sports.

heh. did anyone NOT expect this? some of the best work on dreams is making use of infringed content so they will likely be pulled in time. this all depends on the ip holder and whether or not they are OK with it.

@playstation_king Because Nintendo arnt ether and they don't like that, they are doing what's rightfully there's and anything they own should be earning money for them that's been Nintendo's policy since they started

@iamtylerdurden1 I'd argue where is the creativity in just copying someone else's work? I fail to see how Nintendo are in the wrong for trying to protect their own creation

Christ, I can't get over these people who puts so much time and energy into fan creations when they know Nintendo's lawyers will just end up targeting them.

In general, I wish there were stronger protections for fan art and fan creations utilizing popular IP like this. Until that happens, though, just give yourself enough wiggle room so that your work isn't pulled down, or you're not sued.

@Nyne11Tyme Nintendo is the most anti consumer of the big 3 ? are you serious ?

Do you know the list of shady business practices Sony has done over the years to not only its consumers but also people who worked with them amongst all of their divisions .

To list a few Sony was the first company that soon led a trend of online passes on the playstation 3 era if you didnt buy the game new you were locked out of the online portion of the game.

Sony threatned Jeff Gerstmann who was working at gamespot at the time for not giving Ratchet and Clank tools of destruction a perfect score and pulled pulling ad money which led Jeff to lose his job

Playstaton Vita overly priced memory cards.

2011 PlayStation Network outage: when hackers claimed 2.2 million playstation users credit cards and sony said nothing for weeks and had to publicly apologise.

Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal: when they put mhalware and DRM into cd disks that broke peoples CD players .

Or about how they literally destroyed Michael Jackson Career and bankrupted the man for not handing over the rights to his music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0Un9K5dKQ

@get2sammyb please be less facetious in your article, if you were in their place you wouldn't be so snarky.

And no, the non-profit angle doesn't apply here, since Dreams is a commercial product you can buy, and being able to play games recreated there without having to buy them (and the necessary hardware to play it on) is certainly gonna have a financial effect.
And that's not even taking precedents into account. Do you really think Nintendo wants to set such a perilous precedent?
If people are free to recreate, for example, Super Mario 64 levels in Dreams, they have all the rights to not let that happen, since it's their game and they aim to make money off of it, like any other company with its products.
And it's not cause I like Nintendo, the same applies to all companies whose work might be reproduced in Dreams (and thus lead to Sony profiting and not them), such as Disney, as others commenters pointed out (which is a company I actively despise). But that won't stop people from calling me a Nintendrone, I guess, even though this article is pretty fanboyish in itself and amounts to "Nintendo bad cuz they don't let us use their things for free, boo-hoo". Yeah let's see if Sony (or any other company) is willing to give away their treasured IP's to everyone and anyone.

I'm a little confused here so if I make a chair can the guy that invented the first chair Sue me then and also easy fix just change the color scheme instead of red and blue and white make a different colors it's not Mario because it's not the Mario colors

Also, the game was made for people to make their own original creations (and the players are showing that they're very good at that), not to knock off other people's work, so why would you even want to make a Mario or Sonic game in Dreams? Make something original for Pete's sake. Yeah I know there's plenty of Sonic games, I chose him as an example for that reason.

Can't people just make their Mario's slightly taller and perhaps dressed in green instead to avoid copyright claims?
Oh wait...

this won't go to court but it would be interesting to see if it did, Sony would probably win, it's like sharing your own art, pictures or videos and in this case an interactive video (game). it would be great to see if Sony could dump this stuff externally and players could download it as you would a mod

the easiest way to get around this is simply just change the characters slightly, don't make mario look exactly like mario, then Nintendo can go swivel

@mini_piekarnik If its under fair use and you have permission from a publisher or creator then there is no problem . But the problem is for every copy of dreams that is sold , Sony is is gaining money and can indeed fall into legal troubles.

Regarding sharing your own art , lets say I drew fan art of Overwatch. There is no problem , but lets say I then sold it at conventions , if I get caught I can be sued by not only the artist without permission but also by activision and blizzard if they wanted to . Even if I drew a pose and used a models photo as a reference , if I dont give credit I can get into serious trouble .

its copyright for a reason

@get2sammyb care to explain what Im wrong about ?

Maybe try to unleash your own creativity, rather than copy pasting entire levels? It seems like a normal move for a company to defend their property.

@ArcadeHeroes whoa whoa. Im talking purely about games bud. Nintendo is pretty anti consumer and have been. BotW on Wii U is still 59.99 if you need a reference. And I never said Sony( Vita proprietary memory $$$) or MS (Willingly sent out consoles they KNEW had a 33% fail rate from jump) were squeaky clean. And Nintendo is only a game company. Sony And MS are much broader spectrum companies.

If SONY did this to Nintendo then there would be uproar on the internet but as usual other gaming companies are never the villain on the internet :-/

@Nyne11Tyme Oh sorry that was my fault XD .

Yeah Nintendo Prices being full price is quite annoying , but its understandable , they are ever green titles that always appear in the top 10 charts so they will always retain their value till the end of a console lifecycle .I remember GTA 5 was being sold for 60 euros for like 5 years . Nintendo do offer Nintendo Selects with a reduced prices but its usually at the end of a consoles lifespan . its frustrating I agree

@Carl-G yeah everyone gangs up on poor, poor Sony, I guess there's a conspiracy to being them down, boo-hoo. /s

I guess you've never visited any other gaming site if you think other companies never get flak. To be honest Sony gets little flak compared to other companies, and that's because they make pretty solid decisions the vast majority of the time.

@ArcadeHeroes I was wondering the same as I agree with your post, but I guess you'll never get a reply just like I didn't get one.
I really like PS as it tends to be way less unapologetic than NL with their respective gaming companies of reference, but when they do - oh boy are they unapologetic.
It got a lot better over the years, but I fondly (?) remember the time when saying anything contrary to Sammy's and Rob's opinions amounted to either not receiving a reply (best case scenario), or being downright mocked in front of everyone. I remember cause it happened to me, more than once even, though they've gotten way better over time.
And it's for this exact reason that I point it out every time they're being unreasonable, cause I know they've come a long way and they're better than that.

@AdamNovice 1. You are misformed like the majority of people as to what actually happened to Jeff Gerstmann , he stated before years ago on ign and other media outlets the moment that got him fired was the ratchet review that happened before the Kane and Lynch review

https://kotaku.com/yes-a-games-writer-was-fired-over-review-scores-5893785

2. You know before Sony had there press conference for the reveal of the Playstation 4 there was Loud leaks sony themselves were going to implement what Microsoft did , but then saw the negative feedback and made the console DRM free right and used it as a publicity tool to look like the good guys. You even said it yourself regards to Online Game Pass , it was for developers to stomp down on used copies so why would Sony Change that ?

Oh wait ! Cause they already implemented a pay wall that was once optional with Playstation plus offering free games across not only ps3 games but Psp and ps vita games . but now that is mandatory we have been paying more for less free games.

3. Yes the prices and size of the memory cards is what ultimately cost an amazing handheld its early doom , Sony had no interest supporting it after barely 2 years on the market didnt really help much either .

4. Im sorry but All Sony divisions work under the same roof and all operate from heads of multiple Ceos and executives on what business decisions are made and are told how to operate accordingly. Jim Ryan didnt suddenly become head of Playstation and soley make the decision to move PS headquarters to America and close all other headquarters in Europe and elsewhere without permission from the higher ups he works for .

the argument is still being made about artist such as Michael Jackson that it was planned to absoutely destroy a man just to get 100% control of his music .

I'm not defending this as its harmless fun but this was always going to happen and you can expect more and more from others as well to demand stuff removed. There's a Flash i like on there what's only fun to play for like 2 mins or so but the guy uses the music from the show on it, it only takes WB or Blake Neely to see that and take a dislike and bam its gone.

Really this is the problem with Dreams, its fantastic but most of its creators are recreating stuff either because they're learning and need a bases or because they haven't got the mind for something more original. The real worry is this could impact new Dreams being uploaded, right now there's far too many recreations to get rid of them now, i bet there's tons of Mario stuff on there still so it makes you wonder if they will make it that Sony/MM improves what gets put up.

Nintendo probably worried someone will make a better Mario game in Dreams than they have.

Seriously, **** NINTENDO. Most bs company in the universe, this is just fan art, people are not making money from these levels.

Next time my nephew's gonna make a Mario drawing and a bunch of ninja lawyers are going to break from the window SWAT style.

@Shepard93n7 yes because a child's drawing and an unendorsed piece of entertainment locked behind a 40€ payment is the exact same. Yep, totally sound logic there.

In the case of non-profit fangames I totally get the argument, I really do, but Dreams is a commercial product. Whether the creators or someone else profits, it doesn't matter. Someone is profiting off their IP. Is it really so hard to understand FFS?
I'd like to see what all the complainers in here would do if it was their work.
Again, not cause it's Nintendo; Disney and anyone else are entitled to do that, and it's perfectly fair.
Edit: also, IIRC, there was talks about potentially sell some Dreams creations on the store, but I could be wrong.

Also, I bet at least half of you who are whining don't even care one bit about not being able to play some knock-off Mario game in Dreams.
I mean, half the comment section is filled with hatred towards Nintendo, surely you don't care about their games.

Media Molecule had this software in early access for a significant amount of time. They (and Sony) should have seen this coming. I think Nintendo have every right to want their IP removed from this game.

Nintendo has to do what it can to protect it’s IP, period. No one should be surprised by this. It would have been cool to see Mario in Dreams, but I’m fine with Super Mario Odyssey. Make something fresh instead.

I've never known Ninty to be very pro consumer much so this isn't surprising. And I don't even find it much sad at all either, just change the fat plumber to something more appealing and be done with it

I want to see better things made like an early RPG that I saw on YouTube, I can't even remember the name tho lol. Spend the time perfecting original ideas rather than making yet another mario game. As if there weren't enough

The sad thing is there will be more companies doing the same thing, not only Nintendo. But even sadder thing is that after Sony puts Dreams on PC, people there won't just give a single f*** and they will mod the game (or many times just pirate it entirely) and get a wide range of exclusive content, which won't be allowed to appear on the console.

@KALofKRYPTON Nintendo is Nintendo in gaming, Marvel is not gaming focused only they have ton of stuff. But why do people defend Nintendo all the time but If Playstation or Xbox does something They are evil. But when Nintendo does the most atrocious things, third party support not up to par, etc. Copyright infringment claims like no other, etc. Nintendo could kill people and people like to make Nintendo seem like the poor victim, why defend Nintendo, WTF. EYAYPSIN.

Just port dreams to the switch. Sorted. Everyone's happy!

Oh look, it's that Mario fella from Dreams.

Just change the letter on the hat to a different letter, boom no longer copy right infringement, this is Lario he works as an Electrician.

@iamtylerdurden1 First of all, I never said that they do, so that's out of the question already.

We don't have any metrics released by Media Molecule to get the actual number of Nintendo related creations in Dreams AFAIK, so that is a shot in the dark at best, but correct me if I'm wrong.

About this causing any harm to somebody, I believe that is hardly relevant here since none of us really owns the IPs. What we see as harmful or helpful for an IP may be way different for the IP owner.

As I said, creators may not make any direct profit, but Sony/Media Molecule still are, that's why Nintendo is targeting Sony and not individuals. Dreams isn't free. Even if no one actually bought it to play Nintendo related rip offs, those are still available there. Take Youtube as an example. They also discourage the use of copyrighted material and they promote original content, but that doesn't stop people from doing it and IP owners from claiming it. The same can happen here.

At the end of the day, most corporations are "greedy pricks". I'm not on their side, but I understand they need to protect their IP, especially because, in the case of Nintendo, said IPs are their main source of income.

About Nintendo not supporting creativity (by letting others work with their IPs) is not true at all. You can see their recent collab with Brace Yourself Games. That's an indie development team and they still got the rights to work with one of Nintendo's biggest IP. Nintendo wants to work with developers to ensure the quality of the games so they don't dilute the value of their IP.

Finally, that's a weird flex, but ok. If you see this as the right way to express your discontent, please go ahead. I mean, that might do more than replying my comment.

Wow why are people so bitter they can’t use Nintendo IP? I mean it’s not like they’ve not got the entire rest of the universe to draw inspiration from or even to create something of their own. This is about creativity after all...

nintendo is dead anyway. been playing skyward sword but theyre never going to get back on core gaming market. This shows despair imo they fear dreams capabilities.

Interesting when Nintendo protect their IP they are wrong to do so, when Sony don’t keep their IP exclusive they are wrong

I jolly well dont blame them. Its their IP so protect it! I mean if theres a chance that being able to play Nintendo themed levels in Dreams stops the sale of a switch console and the existence of said levels possibly making sony money who can blame them. Also it was like a month ago when people were bashing sony for not protecting its exclusive IP and letting it go to PC.

@TheNewButler No it is not as simple as that. What you are saying is a commonly held misconception about copyright. You do not have to fight every infringement or lose copyright protection. Nintendo is just being Nintendo.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/stopping-internet-plagiarism/your-copyrights-online/3-copyright-myths/

@Robinsad That comment makes no sense.

@playstation_king Another myth of copyright is that you can use material if you aren't profiting from it. This is not true.

@playstation_king it's consumerism at its lowest. Just because they ain't making anything then they just whinge like the brats they are. Poor show from Nintendo. Not like its gonna cause a huge impact on switch sales. Also most people are selling there switches due to the same thing that happend with the psp and vita. Not enough storage and for the prices of a chip ur better just buying a console. Or go retro and get a Sega game gear just to annoy Nintendo even more 😂

Nintendo are worried that someone might put something new and original in a Mario game!

To be serious, I can sort of understand it. If someone produces something with Mario that's terrible or profane in Dreams and people see it, they'll think it's a Nintendo release and could damage the Nintendo's reputation.

Sony's ecosystem has enough cooler characters to feature than the fat plumber.

@Devlind thanks, finally someone who gets it! I mean, you're not the only one to write a reasonable comment instead of "hurr durr Nintendo bad", but hats off for being so precise (way more than my comments)!

There are so many entitled people in here b*tthurt for nothing who think as fans, but yeah corporations don't operate on the same logic. I mean, I doubt any of us in this comment section own any I.P. but everyone feels the need to teach Nintendo how to use theirs. And the YT example is perfect: "what do you mean I can't monetize a video that is just some movie I don't own the rights to?". If it weren't the case, what would stop me from downloading, let's say, the latest Star Wars movie, uploading it to YT, and even monetize the video? Would any of you here be okay with that? And we're not talking about fair use here, this is not fair use.

And don't even get me started on the fact that everyone cried salty tears when Sony announced it would put Horizon on PC (an official release that they reap monetary benefit from) cause it "dilutes the value of the PS brand" (translation: "makes me feel insecure cause I'm a fanboy and can't appreciate games for what they are but have to stick to one brand to feel special"), and at the same time expect, no, have the pretense that Nintendo just let 'em do whatever cause "dude, you don't wanna hog all the goodies that you created and own, would you? I mean, that's not playing nice.".
Yeah, corporates play nice, always have. They're not out to make money or something; no, you could equate them to charities.

But what irks me the most is the tone of the article, cause by adopting it it justifies the idiotic fanboy rage in the comments we've seen so far.
And I'm more than sure @get2sammyb is smart enough to understand every single point I'm making, so that leaves only the option that he did on purpose to stir this crapstorm, which is even worse than not getting it.
That's what really gets in my nerves, spinning stories to fit one's opinion and the misinformation it creates.
Call it the "Cinema Sins effect" if you will.
I'm sure half of the people insulting Nintendo right now wouldn't do the same if Sammy told them the things you and I are saying, I have no doubt.

That's not Mario anyway. That's Mashio. wink wink

But seriously, this level is probably no different than most of the 3D dreams levels that rip off an IP. This is no big loss.

EDIT: Also, this article doesn't handle the difference between news and opinion very well.

How Hypocritical of Nintendo to do this...just 2 years ago they were all for Cross play with Microsoft. This is really no different.

@get2sammyb we can agree to disagree as two users in a comment section, but out of the two of us you are the one who's in charge of informing your readers, so you should keep your opinion strictly in the comments, not the articles.

Being partial on a news outlet is never good, cause it ends up stirring the pot and making people harbor ill-will towards others (Nintendo in this case) for absolutely no reason. I mean, Robert covered the Horizon port in an impartial way, why shouldn't you do the same?
The XBox X vs. PS5 articles were also pretty impartial, so what gives?

That's the same reason why I don't take NintendoLife seriously anymore. The majority of time they're so busy praising everything Nintendo does that they forget to report actual news and review games in a professional manner.

@Xnx_gaming are you even aware of what cross-play is? Cause it's absolutely nothing like this.
It means we can play Minecraft together even if I'm on an XBox and you're on a Switch, that's what it means. Which is totally unrelated to the subject at hand.

@get2sammyb they have to be, if you don't protect your copyright then you lose it

I love-hate how everyone acts like Nintendo is so selfish for this.

You think Disney would be cool with people using Mickey Mouse? Would MS be okay with people using Master Chief?
Sony with Spider-man? (just look into the movie rights on that one!)
How about DC with their IP? Pixar? Marvel?

But no! How DARE evil Nintendo try to protect their IP? They are just SO selfish. lol

@clvr It boils down to "sharing" and they are obviously willing to do sharing for certain things, and piss and moan about others.

@get2sammyb @playstation_king unfortunately this corona virus thing is an excellent example. In case you guys didnt hear, the Corona beer company lost billions of dollars recently not because ppl caught the virus from the beer, but simply for no other reason than the name. thats it. Because the virus has the same name as the beer, the company lost profit. What you guys don't know about economics and business is that it's not all about popularity or how many units you sell. These companies have people that own shares of the company meaning like in this case those shareholders call the shots, not Nintendo. Lot of those shareholders are rich old men that have never played a videogame in their lives and some don't even know what a Mario is! BUT they know Wallstreet. And if they feel that anything could damage a company's image they will set up meetings to discuss what needs to be done, usually resulting in them demanding nintendo take action up to the point of potential litigation.

@Shepard93n7 I made an example earlier using the Corona beer company. Just the name alone has cost them billions of dollars thanks to this virus outbreak. Only the name. Nothing else. Nobody got sick its just the names are the same even though the beer company legally owns the name. So if something as simple as a name similarity can cost a company billions imagine what the physical use of someone else's product can cost. Unfortunately guys, thats the business world.

@Bobskie77 Like I told some other guys, a mere name can cost a company billions. Check out what happened to the Corona beer company because of the virus. No sicknesses occurred because of the beer, it was just the name that cost them profit. Companies have to protect so so much when it comes to their properties because absolutely anything stupid at all can ruin them.

@3MonthBeef Either a lot of ppl forget or never knew, but Sony, Apple, Phillips, EA and just about every other consumer electronics entertainment company out there and ESPECIALLY MICROSOFT have been trying to find ways to legally steal Nintendo's properties since the 90s! The short version is that Nintendo owned stock in Rareware which is why Microsoft ran a bid against them to purchase Rare by buying up more stock than Nintendo. It was an attempt at a hostile takeover of Nintendo IP. Microsoft thought that because Rare made Donkey Kong Country and dev'd some of the other games that Rare owned the licensing to these games so by acquiring Rare they would acquire the games from Nintendo. Truth is MS was actually after the Mario IP and they thought that because Mario was originally a Donkey Kong trademark that they could simply get Rare, have DK, and by default own Mario. Needless to say that plan didn't work out so I bet whoever hatched it got fired by Bill Gates!! HAHA!!

@Xnx_gaming lol okay, you don't have a clue.

1) Cross-play: letting people who bought the same multiplatform game on different platforms play online together.

2) This Mario thing: people making fan creations using copyrighted material from another company in a commercial product made and sold by Sony.

How are these two things even remotely similar? We're talking apples and oranges here.

@Giygas_95 Fantastic game to who? Metroid fans? I liked it too and it's true the guy wasn't making money off it but that wasn't the problem. Imagine someone who has never in their lives played a Metroid game before just happened to get turned to AM2R and thought it was the greatest thing ever. Then Samus Returns comes out and they are like well it's not as good as AM2R. or Perhaps they dont like AM2R at all and when they see Samus Returns they are immediately turned off by it for whatever reason they didn't like AM2R. Maybe they'll like both? Who knows but it's a HUGE risk. Basically you are taking someone else's product, recreating it for fun and exposing it to a whole world of potential customers out there and in doing so are making the original creator compete with its own creation at your hands. So not only does Nintendo already have to compete with other brands like Sony and MS, now they have to compete with one of their own properties? What's worse is if a fan manages to do it better. Because now they have to outperform one of their own customers who's putting out their product for free. How many ppl besides loyal fans would bother buying the Nintendo version if they get an equal or better version for free?

Lastly, I have been making this point a bit now, but the Corona beer company just lost billions of dollars simply because of the name of their beer being similar to the name of the virus, and the beer company legally owns the name and had it for decades, long before this virus even became a factor. So any little, silly, insignificant factor as simple as a totally harmless name can cost a well established company billions of dollars.

Has anyone heard the rumour that drinking Corona beer makes you repeat the same comment numerous times?

@Devlind the law doesn't work on mights and maybes dude. They would have to prove that dreams is only selling because their ip has inspired some of its user creations and be able to put a number to how much profit has been made because of it IE prove damages, which they can't. Fair use also says you can use ips like Mario and video games or movies on your own work if that work is transformative in nature and not sold for profit. IE a twitch steam or YouTube video isn't sold its free and thus fair use applies as long as you aren't copy and pasting the content but using it in a creation of your own. This is set by the lawsuit against h3h3 and why Nintendo changed its stance on its creators club, they had to legally. You can protect your ip from theft but you can't stop people from being fans of it, you can't sue fan fiction, or robot chicken for playing with toys from your ip in an original way and this is no different. Nintendo can be salty but legally speaking they have no right to the content in dreams even if that content contains Mario. Long as it's not a recreation of their work exactly, or being sold as dlc for profit, it's fair use. Thank you h3h3 for setting the precedent, papa bless

@TheNewButler if precedent is what you need then that was set by the lawsuit against h3h3 for using copy righted content in his YouTube videos. User created content that is transformative in nature is now by law. Fair use, this includes things like videos, twitch streams, animations (like robot chicken which by your logic shouldn't even exists as everything in it is someone else's ip, including both marvel and Nintendo), fan fictions, satire, cosplay, and yes even digital content like game levels. This was NOT settled out of court and is now the precedent when it comes to copy righted material online. Which is where these exist, not as part of the game being sold. None of Nintendo's actual assets where used, or the code from their games. The levels are all entirely original and contain the likeness of an ip, which is fair use. If Sony challenged it and cited fair use they could win. They should win. They should challenge this to protect fair use and their users, But this isn't a question of rather or not it's legal it's a question of if it's worth the time and money from Sony to contest it. FYI companies don't settle out of court if they know they are about to win anyway, it's a silence traffic used to bury the case and avoid percent being set, just like Nintendo knows this is fair use but is using this strong arm tactic and the playing the victim role in hopes that will harbor bad press for Sony and they will comply to save face or just settle out of court to avoid a long drawn out legal battle and get the headline "we reached an agreement" so they look like they are working together and friendly competition now. But hey you already knew all this right, after all you are in school for this soooo that makes you an expert lol papa bless

@TeddySwolesevelt I see your point, but just one thing: if a fan can do it better, the company owning the franchise needs to up their game. Though I thought Samus Returns was the better game overall.

That or take a page from Sega's book and let the fan actually develop an official game if they're that much better at it than the company itself. Though most companies aren't that open about their IP.

@Giygas_95 you'd think, because that's the logical direction seeing that they are the company after all, but we are already demanding they put their best foot forward as it is right? So how is it fair that not only do we demand top notch quality, but then hold their own product as a sort of "Sword of Damacles" over their heads? It would be like you want me to buy a product from you, I take your product and make it better, while still demanding you to make it better than me or else! Lol Why even bother making it in the first place? It's like constantly upping the demand with no end and worse using their own invention so like before you're forcing them to compete with their own design for your benefit, kinda like the Romans throwing people in the coliseum to either survive or die for our entertainment! 😂

In the case of Metroid, the reason it's so scarce today is because it's not nearly as popular overseas as it is Stateside. It's impossible to please absolutely everyone, especially when you have 2+ totally different cultures to appeal to. So ultimately it's forcing them between a rock and a hard place. Give me what I expect or else, but at the same time give the other person what they want too or else, and it's just never ending. Games are hard af to make so you have to be seriously passionate about making them, even more passionate than gamers are about playing them...

@Giygas_95 now far as letting the fan do it, the problem isn't quality, it's mass appeal. There's billions put into marketing and R&D to come up with top quality product and you see what happened to Metroid: Other M. The quality was great! But not the mass appeal because gamers wanted another Prime. True Other M had it's shortcomings but it was still a fun play nonetheless. It's a huge risk, even to let a well known, fully established and successful company handle your properties so imagine someone with little experience. TecmoKoei dev'd Other M, Sega dev'd F-Zero GX, and BandaiNam dev'd StarFox Assault and we see their current fates. If PlatGames hadn't stepped in and picked up Star Fox Zero we probably wouldn't have that either. That's why Nintendo is so cautious with their products.

Sega was it's own story however because it's struggling badly just to stay alive so any sales they get at all are good! 😂😢

@TeddySwolesevelt They're well within their rights to copyright strike this stuff, but I still hold that if a fan can do something better than the studio, it's a bad look, and they need to make sure that they give everyone a reason to want their game over the fan made one.

I liked Other M too. I wonder if people have grown kinder to it with time like they seem to have with the, say, Star Wars Prequels...

@Giygas_95 Can't please everyone though. What's good for one may not be good for the next. That's precisely why we have that Other M situation. And interesting you pose that question because people actually have indeed warmed up to it a bit. BUT only because Prime 4 was confirmed! 😂 Even Federation Force got a LOT of hate! Not because it was a bad game, but because it wasn't Prime. So imagine for example had it been AM2R vs Federation Force? Or AM2R vs Other M for that matter. Now ya got a huge problem, not because quality but again because mass appeal.

Ninty elitist gamers wanted only 2 things: Samus, and a Halo Killer. In all actuality that's what the hate was all about. Metroid Prime was a hardcore Nintendo fan's answer to Halo. (even though Metroid did it first if course) The truth behind the whole issue is that those guys wanted their own FPS to fuel their schoolyard Ninty vs Xbox arguments. And without a Prime game they can't win their petty "who's the better company console war" fights. That's literally what all the Other M and especially Federation Force hate was all about. To them:

No Samus + no 3D FPS = No Halo Killer.

@playstation_king Sony is making a profit though.