Speaking as part of a live episode of Geoff Keighley's Bonus Round this week, Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter suggested that Microsoft may undercut the price of the PlayStation 5 this holiday. According to the industry analyst, he thinks Sony will charge $500 for its next-gen console, giving its Redmond competitor the opportunity to take a big loss – and charge consumers less for the Xbox Series X.
“Microsoft has a big balance sheet,” he pointed out. “If they want to cut the price by $100 and subsidise the first 10 million, they will. So, I think they’re waiting to have Sony blink first, and then they’ll reveal the price and launch date. It’s going to be Holiday 2020, so very likely in November and very likely $400.”
Peter Moore, who’s a former Xbox and EA executive but the current boss of Liverpool FC, agreed: “Both companies are considering how much we can afford to lose in the first 12 to 18 months, [and how that is offset by] software attach rate and services revenue. From the perspective of each company, Microsoft right now… the stock price and market cap is flying for them. Does [boss] Satya Nadella say, ‘This is our opportunity’? Let’s dare Sony to come in at $500.”
With its Game Pass service, there’s a good chance that Xbox will already have a big plus over PlayStation, as all of the system’s first-party launch titles – including the upcoming Halo: Infinite – will be available as part of its subscription. It also technically has the more powerful hardware in terms of teraflops, although there are advantages to the PS5 in other areas, such as the speed of its SSD.
Nevertheless, this could prove a real headache for Sony – especially if rumours of a cheaper, alternative Xbox Series X model also turn out to be true. The Japanese giant has insinuated that it’s undecided on the PS5’s price right now, although reports have indicated that it’s an expensive platform to manufacture. It’ll be interesting to see how things shake out this holiday.
[source youtube.com]
Comments 114
I think they'll end up the same price, but that's still a headache for Sony. Microsoft will include a three month sub to Game Pass and advertise the fact you get the most powerful console* with Halo Infinite and Forza for free**.
Huge challenge for Sony.
Microsoft have to go aggressive and early so it wouldn't surprise me, it would also be a great proposition for gamers given Gamepass as well and could lead to huge savings at launch. I'll be getting both anyway so at launch, price and lineup will be the deciding factors
I think it would be worth it for Sony to subsidise the price of the system, as they'd make that money back through PS Store and PS Plus subscriptions.
However, $500 could already be a subsidised price point.
@get2sammyb I do wonder how much that bespoke SSD might cost them to manufacture and if that could be a factor. I'd be surprised if Sony doesn't go ahead and give a PS Now subscription with the PS5, maybe even put one of their launch games on the service for a limited time too
like a copy & paste of last-gen none of it will be true just wait for the real info.
@carlos82 I just can't see it. Then again, every single generation people talk about how Microsoft is just going to use its "war chest" to blow an insane amount of cash on selling more units than Sony, and it never really pans out like that.
@get2sammyb I don't either, I just want to save some money 😄
At this point Playstation's brand recognition and loyalty are going to make it very difficult for Xbox to change that. To be honest I think a lot of their early success hinges on not just price but mainly on Halo Infinite, as they need to turn around the perception of their exclusives not being worthwhile.
I mean how many millions are already looking for to the next God of War, Spiderman, Uncharted and Horizon Zero Dawn
It makes sense to me that if analysts are telling Sony these kinds of things that one viable strategy would be to overhaul PS Plus to be more in line with GamePass. If the service is prone to be a console seller for MS, then let’s fold together some kind of option to combine PS Now with PS Plus and sprinkle in a little Sony magic like free movies also, or something. Then you’re on a more level playing field with XBox.
@Th3solution That’s not a bad idea at all with the movies. They could run it like PS Plus at the minute, with a couple of free movies every month, both different genres to appeal to different people. And then one month we end up with a farming documentary and a city planning documentary
That's interesting, do microsoft as a whole want to greatly subsidize xbox since it seems it's their worse performing divisions? It's the equivalent of sony heavilty subsidize their failed smartphone divisions. In the other hands, playstation divisions profit is about total 25% of all sony income, I'm sure sony will fight tooth and nails for the playstation dominance on market.
Well it's good if xbox want to compete on price since playstation will be forced to compete on price too, I don't think playstation owners want that famous $599 price again 😃
The power of the could is strong. No doubt.
No reason for Microsoft to undercut them, really. Just selling the XSeX at the same price as the PS5 with a bundled GamePass sub will be an incredibly aggressive move.
I think Sony will still have the upper hand early on because of how different their respective install bases are, and BC will probably be bigger than ever for a while, but we all know how easily the tides can shift in favor of another player. Especially one with pockets as deep as Microsoft's.
Sony needs a big exclusive early on to push units. They can't rely on their opponents tripping on their own feet again.
Until they actually announce prices it's all pure speculation.
Having said that if the series X did turn out to be considerably cheaper I can see it putting alot of peoples loyalty to the test.
I've generally always preferred PlayStation over Xbox but if I'm honest the vast majority of my ps games collection are multiplatform games that could have been bought for either console in theory.
I tend to use my Switch for Nintendo exclusive games but anything else will be on Ps4
Contract phones are usually "sold" at a laughable price point because you're tied with a company for the service... Here we are locked to a vendor and yet we must pay some cash and then buy games that aren't cheap either... games over Steam are way cheaper, even at launch, isn't? I think consoles should be almost given away 🤣
I would like to own both and then play games (pay for) on whatever platform is better suited for it.
I personally think around the same price if not slightly cheaper than the xbox or xbox will sell at a loss with the specs it will have.
Well here in the UK, I plan to cop the PS5 day one. £400 would be the ideal price. Above that and Sony will be in trouble since the Xbox console is slightly more powerful. Next gen will be closer than last that's for sure
In all honesty, it's the exclusive games by the companies that sell the consoles. Nintendo has been under power to the others for generations past, and they still sell their consoles...why...their IP's. Sony has amazing IP's too, which makes the consoles sell. The PS3 struggled for the first years due to the price being too high...the price lowered, the exclusives arrived...the console sold better (not sure if it beat the 360 though). Microsoft has struggled this generation, so it's going to take a lot of power for them to regain it back, and let's face it (as I own Microsoft's systems too), they don't seem to keep their IP's around for long with the exclusion of a few that have lasted through all their consoles. Price will only matter with us parents that go out and see the difference in price at retailers, but in all honesty, with what has happened in the world and the fact that a recession may happen, I think both companies would be crazy to ask for a large price. The high price on either system would give nintendo a better advantage during the holiday season. I know this won't happen, but Sony and Microsoft should possibly do a $300 launch system, cut the losses of the consoles, because they're make it back on their online stores, through games, accessories and of course their other perks. This price also keeps them at bay with Nintendo's (which I'm sure they're lower prices too for the holiday) but it's what Sony and Microsoft may have to do with the current state we're in...let's face it, it's not going to be better by the holiday with so many out of work and will be struggling to get better throughout the next many months.
I don't know if I'll buy the PS5 at launch, but I know I'm definitely not buying an XSX. I'm leaning more towards waiting for a nice bundle down the line or waiting for a mid life cycle refresh. My PC is a much better value than a console is, if I'm being honest.
So if the rumoured weaker model is true, then it'll be like 200? It is hard for me to belive this.
@Mince 'Ooooh the speed of its SSD haha, sorry but I'm continuously reading this and it just makes me laugh...'
I agree. It too brings a smile to my face when I see this 'feature' continuously mentioned. However, if it also 'currently' provides a reason to keep the PS fans happy, then I guess that everyone is smiling... Which is nice.
I'm wondering if people are less likely to make the switch to the competitor's console since the next gen consoles will support backward compatibility.
You'de be locking yourself out of your current gen library and PSVR (assuming you don't want another extra console connected to your TV).
Seems not worth it if saving a few bucks at launch is your only motivation.
Dont forget Patcher is a moron and is wrong more than he is right regarding game systems
Could. Maybe. We don't know yet.
Really I understand the need and demand for next gen articles but this one rubs me the wrong way.
There is seriously no news here. Everybody knew this.
Gonna buy PS5 because I want to stay in the ecosystem
Michael Pachter!!
Is he still going??
That guy is so full of sh1t he makes Phil Spencer look like Nostradamus.
He famously 'predicted' that PS3 was going to be the last generation of consoles.
He also suggests continuously that people should not buy stock in Netflix, a position he has maintained ever since it went on the stock market in USA and has risen since.
Please Pushsquare, as one of the last bastions of reasonable console news, and I know news is difficult to come by at the moment with covid19 being out there, please don't publish any more drivel associated from this plonker.
A good reason for me to switch to Xbox would be their backwards compatibility. I can play all the Xbox One games I've missed, plus my older 360 and original xbox games.
Price won't matter for me. I will definitely get one launch ps5, maybe get two if possible. I will wait to see if there will be a ps5 pro or a really nice God of War version or something similar and get one of those too. I have way too much invested in Playstation to even think of switch to Xbox. It's Nintendo Switch and Ps5 for me.
The only way for MS to compete with sony next gen given ps4s success would be sell cheaper at a loss and do some other big customer focused policy change like end the need for xbox live gold for multiplayer or maybe intergrate a PC/Steam mode. Otherwise crossplay + our massive libraries will keep us in the sony ecosystem for the forseeable future
@get2sammyb and I'll still by a ps5. But a decent amount of people won't.
Pachter is usually wrong.
Im Playstation 5 regardless. The games are what sell systems for me, and i have always been happy with the offering i get from Sony. But i wont be buying for some time. Who knows what the long term impact of the virus will be, but if the recession is as bad as is being touted online, i cant justify buying a new games console when my existing one is more than good enough.
If Pachter is right (big if given his record), i cant see it being the series x anyway. More likely xbox lockhart.
Who has told us, the most power console ever made, is cheaper to make than the ps5? This is pure speculation.
Thing is PS5 will sell out of stock till what Feb or so if rumors true that sony cant make enough. Sony should take that into account .
Price is honestly irrelevant. There's simply no reason to upgrade to a Series X within the first two years, if ever at all, because it won't have a unique library to warrant its existence. PS5 on the other hand, even if it comes out more expensive and slower to take off, will be a solid investment because you will end up with a huge library of quality games that you cannot play anywhere else.
People seem to forget the ONLY reason to purchase a console is for exclusive games; not the controller which is irrelevant, not friends because this hobby is YOURS, not an extensive back catalog because you're absolutely able to maintain your old boxes(s)...
Pachter....not exactly a track record of reliability with this guy.
We know they are both going to cost a pretty penny to begin with. It will be interesting to see if xbox can pull fans across from ps. I would love to buy a ps5 at launch as I think long term they will have the stronger package. God of war 2, and horizon zero dawn 2 will be amazing.
@Mince @Hengist PS5’s SSD is more than twice as fast as that of the Xbox series X. If we speculating about cost it’s likely to be the only component for PS5 but significantly more expensive than the Xbox Series X’s equivalent. On the flipside the Series X has more computer units has in its GPU so that is likely to be more expensive to produce them the one in the PlayStation five. I’m not expecting the build cost to be significantly different enough for the recommended retail price is to be different. The economics of subsidising the initial purchase likely to be the same for both companies.
Horizon 2 at launch, and a reveal trailer of God of War 2 and Spider-Man 2. If they use that for marketing they're in a good position. And Knack 3 of course, otherwise it's DOA.
An undercut XSX price will be end of PS5. PS3-era all over again.
But considering MS is planning to release a second Xbox Series S with a lower price and Specs, i doubt they will put a less-then-500 USD price to the XSX
Doesnt really matter what the price is if you dont have games. Xbox has like 2 popular exclusives that matter and they are almost worn out. You will not do well with no games its been 10 years and they still dont learn
Michael Pachter is a living joke. The real news is that game magazines and websites are still listening to this clown in 2020.
@nessisonett They dont have the movieservice every where how do they fix that?
@No_Cartridge Its a miss and hit with the guy of you gamble enough you will always have something right. 😆
@ShaiHulud Never had a Xbox so i wont gain anything. 😆
@Flaming_Kaiser Sony are a movie company just as much as a games company. Just release their own movies if they can’t license other companies’ ones.
Sony need to launch with Horizon 2 and maybe gran turismo, and upgrade options for a number of current games like ghost of tsushima, cyberpunk and last of us - maybe final fantasy 7 remake, and they are solid
@No_Cartridge You're right who knows maybe he is right but i already knew what console i was getting next when i bought my PS4. 😆
@Grimwood that's not how streaming services work.
Having first party, major releases on the service at launch is a huge bonus for the service. It gives it much more value. That's how services like Netflix and Disney+ are staying relevant. They aren't losing bluray sales, they are gaining subscribers.
@get2sammyb well, actually it did happen at the beginning of the x360 generation, specially because of ps3 600$ price tag. So Sony better price PS5 accordingly.
Doesnt matter what the price is. Microsoft doesn’t have the big exclusives. Even if they come out winning like the previous gen, Sony will catch up
It makes sense for MS to take advantage of the ridiculous amount of money it has and undercut Sony out of the gate. Just because it makes sense, doesn't mean it'll happen but even as somebody who prefers PlayStation much more if the Xbox is the more powerful console for $100 less then that's the way I'm going. I'll just get PS5 later on down the line when the price is more reasonable and exclusives worth a damn are out for it.
I don't really think either will reveal the price until like late August and the decision being made based on the state of the pandemic at the time.
@No_Cartridge
Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I think if you read some of the other comments in this thread you might also notice some of the general contempt towards Michael Patcher and his opinions, and that's just on this site.
Still interesting to hear from a Patcher fan, very rare too.
Analysts seem to get more 'predictions' wrong than right...
We will have to see what both are prepared to do as far as pricing goes....
Michael Pachter......him again......doubt
Remember, never buy a console on launch. They will be the most inferior and overpriced version of the console generation. Also there will be lack off games in the first years, so don't hesitate.
I'm struggling to see MS selling the XSX at a loss to undercut PS5, while also launching the Lockhart XSS to, hmm, undercut PS5?
The XSX has a bigger APU, bigger SSD, so you'd think that the BOM would be higher, right? Or are they going to dig into their Office and Azure profits to secure bragging rights?
Microsoft might have a huge balance sheet, but I can’t see them taking a massive loss on the Series X. Shareholders generally don’t like companies pouring a bunch of cash into loss-making enterprises. Also, Microsoft’s balance sheet did not become so strong in the first place by frittering its resources away! I think they will price aggressively, but only up to the point where they think they will turn a profit when taking game sales, Xbox Live and Game Pass into account. My guess is $450.
Also, when has Michael Pachter ever been right?!
One thing about selling below cost price is how long it takes for the cost of production to drop below the chosen retail price. The thing is with these consoles is that they're all made from the same components: if the price of the chips used in SSDs or the fabrication costs of the APUs falls, then it falls for your competitor, too. Maybe you can make a loss for 6 months or a year while you wait for the BOM to drop, but your competitors costs drop as well.
Can't see a company selling at below cost these days, tough sell with the shareholders, I would have thought.
I finally got the courage to start Dark Souls this week, but it's on PS3. I need to get a new PS4 to play DS3 and Sekiro (and get remaining Bloodborne trophies).
I believe Ps5 will out sell XBSX like Ps4 did with XBO
I dont really get it. Im not loaded by no means but would still pay the extra to have a ps5 over an Xbox. For me its all about the games. Ive had an xbox one and also got the X and the console just sat there until i decided to sell it. Power isnt a deal breaker for me if the exclusive, good games arnt there. Forza (2,3,4,6) was always a great racing game until they "bro'd" it up with the last edition and Halo and gears (1 and 2 were phenomenal) are just stale now. For me there just isnt anything exclusive that makes me want an xbox. When i think of great games i think of GOW, Horizon, TLOU, Spiderman,Ghosts of T, Ratchet, SOTC etc. I do however think incorporating PS now and PS+ in to one subscription is defenately the way to go and would help Sony no end.
People will always follow the games they want. Nothing is wrong with wanting Halo and buying a Xbox. Microsoft failed to show they could best Sony in games on Xbox One. I have seen zero reason for a PlayStation owner to switch and buy a Xbox SX. After they show some Game of the year exclusives there is a good chance i will buy a Xbox also.
Just lower the price now.
I don't care if Microsoft prices it at half price, I haven't seen an exclusive I liked on Xbox in over a decade. It's PC, switch / vita for handheld, and PlayStation as my primary console.
@Neolit I don't think people understand how much of a game changer this SSD sounds like it will be. Teraflops isn't an accurate measurement of performance.
Funny that most people take this type of article literally as if word came from Sony and Ms. You see it on twitter. Mob reacting like a school of fish never stop to amaze me. Its gold for war of influence.
@Neolit ' but if you spend an afternoon reading about PC architecture and understand what it means to have data storage that doesn't lag behind your RAM and CPU, you will see what I mean.'
Thanks for the reply. I have two degrees in Software Engineering and have been involved in the video game industry (my name can even be seen in certain end-game credits), so I think that I do understand what you mean. However, if people think that the SSD on the new PS5 is going to make cross-platform games perform better (actual, not technical) on that system, when compared to the new Xbox's SSD, then I still remain smiling.
@Neolit you know when Mark Cerny said we could put our PS4 games on an external HDD, do you recon that if you use an old sata3 SSD in an external drive enclosure we might get a massive improvement to load times with there being no bottlenecks in the architecture?
@Hengist all cross platform games will have to be coded to the slowest part of both next gen consoles but first party games on both should shine on each respective strength
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk 'all cross platform games will have to be coded to the slowest part of both next gen consoles'
They will be coded, initially on PC architecture, with all inherent data transfer timings originating from that benchmark. Then they will be adjusted to fit the architecture of the console platforms.
___________
'but first party games on both should shine on each respective strength'
I totally agree with you on this. First party games is where any opportunity to use the new PS5's SSD will shine.
@Hengist 👍🏻
I am expecting a launch deal for both consoles, trade either in for a discount on the new consoles....
Sounds like they learnt from Sony. the PS4 was cheaper and more powerful than the XB1 at launch, might be the other way around this time.
@Mince @Hengist @Neolit
Hangist, as a software developer you should know full well that what @Neolit is saying is 100% accurate. We are not talking about SATA III or NVMe speeds here, we are talking PCIE 4.0 and beyond, something that even the PC scene is just seeing now.
As a developer you obviously know In terms of gaming, when you stream assets from storage to memory 99% of the time it needs to be decompressed first, which in turn takes up valuable CPU cycles. At these SSD speeds, no decompression will technically be needed, although in the future it may become a factor, it all depends on where the industry goes. We are talking open worlds that are not limited by texture size, asset size and more importantly available memory. Assuming of course that LOD is implemented correctly, the only limit i can see in this case would be hard drive space to store said assets. To be able to stream and drop assets in realtime, the possibilities are almost endless.
Infact i would argue that while on paper the xbsx may be the more powerful machine in terms of raw performance, the ps5 will be capable of producing visuals far surpassing that of the xbox, all thanks to that little SSD. What good is a slightly faster CPU when half of its performance is taken up by decompressing and moving assets around?
Raw performance alone doesnt make a console good, if it did then the one x would have outsold both the PS4 Pro and the Swich. As it stands, its the complete opposit, both sony and nintendo are thrashing microsoft at the moment. Why? Because they are making 100% use of what they have avilable to them. Im not trying to bash MS, but there does seem to be a serious lack of imagination in thier upcoming design.
Sadly they have made this fatal mistake yet again, raw performance over innovation. Yes MS may have an SSD as well, but it is 100% proprietary and that is their second mistake that will cost them dearly. Any system that has used this type of external proprietary storage system in the past has done very poorly.(memory stick duo anyone?).
While the PS5 does have a proprietary internal SSD (and and insainly fast one at that) you at lease have the option to expand with custom storage from 3rd parties when PCI 4 is more widely available. You will have no such option with xbsx, its microsofts way or the highway, and that will annoy alot of people in the long term.
As for crossgen games, yes the loading times will be faster, and texture pop in will be improved, but it really isnt a farcry to patch a game to use uncompressed assets. Ofcourse, this does vary from title to title but in general its not the hardest thing to do.
As a developer im sure you know most of this anyway, i just think that the importance and ingenuity of that SSD is seriously overlooked at times. There is a reason why Mark Cerney spent so much time on it in the deep dive
My bet is £599 and $599 for the PS5
Xbox will be severely subsidised coming in at least £100/$100 cheaper.
Word.. just IMHO
@Belekai ' There is a reason why Mark Cerney spent so much time on it in the deep dive'
Yup, and that reason was because there wasn't really anything else good to say about the system. I imagine that his reveal script was written/edited, in-conjunction with the marketing department before he went on stage.
My favourite was the subject of overheating. Instead of a utilising a robust cooling solution (which would raise the price), they instead decided to just slow the system down when it gets too hot. The marketing department must have loved that one.
It doesn't matter how much one cost over the other, I am buying a ps5. Not an Xbox... i am committed and I do t even know or care what it looks like... Sony doesn't even need to bolster the ps5 with marketing. It seems they are confident in their ability and product. Plus they have been gobbling up IPs for exclusives. Clearly studios have been silent working on next gen and then the state of things did not help but still, the counsel is going to be really good.
@Neolit I’m guessing it all depends what ports PS5 will have if it has USB 2, 3 or 3.1 but we are not talking M.2 speeds. HDD read speeds at around 120-160MB/s where as SSD sata 3 is up to 550MB/s USB 3 has a rating of 5GB/s
@Neolit 'don't go changing the subject with cross-platform games then'
I didn't change the subject? I was referring to cross-platform titles and I acknowledged in a reply, to Fuzzymonkeyfunk, that first party titles would see the benefits of the PS5's SSD.
There was no changing of my subject.
If you care about Sony exclusives (which I do) then power difference will not make a difference. Ultimately it’s software that sells, and so far over several generations MS have failed to provide an exclusive IP I care about (couple of third party exclusives, on original XBOX (like Panzer Dragoon Orta) and XBLA stuff in 360 days. This is the first generation I have not bought an MS console - the usually small differences between multi plays is only really for fan boys to argue over).
@Hengist
I love a good discussion as much as the next person but you are commenting on speculation, not fact. We know what the SSD is, and its capability, that information was provided to us, as such it is open for in depth analysis. The result of which is, its vastly superior to anything else on the market right now, including pc's, and shows clearly what the potential is for the system. Ultimately it is upto developers to make use of said tech. If you wanted to cut down a tree and all you had was a pocket knife, you would be limited by time and energy constraints, sony havent just handed you a chainsaw for the job, they have give you a bulldozer.
What we don't have is solid information on the cooling system, Sony has yet to reveal the full information. I agree that if the cooling system is subpar then they very well may have an issue, but if we are speculating here, i sincerely doubt that it inst effective. Again it was addressed in the deep dive that the current cooling system is noisy, and it was a main concern going forward. You cannot possibly say that it isnt a "robust cooling system" without even knowing how it works, or indeed some performance stats. Speculation is one thing, but dont try to discredit something we know very little about. Xbox is different, they literally took the case off and showed us the components, reserve judgment until sony do the same thing
Variable cpu frequencies are considered standard in the pc world, boost clocks and over/under volts have been tried tested and almost perfected in recent years. Take at look at AMD's precision overdrive for example, it turns ryzen users into pro overclockers without event having to touch a single setting. It really isnt surprising that this is included in the PS5 being a Ryzen based system. If sony and amd have found a way to include this in the PS5 APU and managed to cool it effectivly, then i would say that gives developers ever more freedom. Why have a CPU running at max speed when you only want 60% of it for the scene you are rendering? Its a waste of energy and cpu cycles.
It makes perfect sense that microsoft have over engineered thier cooling system, its running at max frequency 100% of the time. The real question is why, if the new xbox is also ryzen based, didnt microsoft opt for ajustable frequencies like sony? Again my point stands, its lack of foresight and innovation in the architecture.
I have no doubt that you will disagree with me, and of course thats your right, but please don't present speculation as fact, and the fact is, a variable frequency system doesn't require NASA grade engineers to cool it
But bringing the discussion back to the core, iv never know Microsoft to sell anything at a loss, maby at cost to be competitive, but never at a loss. Sony on the otherhand have been known to do it, the PS3 was a great example, they lost so much money on those machines selling them at less that cost, but they made it all back and more in software/games.
Given the sheer amount of people who own a ps4, and a reasonable sized game library, id say sony already has a headstart via loyalty alone. My personal collection is topping a little over 110 physical games. It would be a tough to ask anyone in a similar situation to abandon back comparability and swap from sony to microsoft, thats a really hard sell.
analysis suggests the analysts are making a wild guess and fudging some guessed numbers to create two magic numbers that aren't identical
@Belekai
That's a well written response, which I appreciate. I acknowledge that I cannot present 'speculation as fact' (i.e. the cooling system), and it wasn't my intention to do so. I was basing my observations purely on what Mr Cerney had said. The only reason, at this stage, for this unique approach to cooling that I can think of (and this is just my opinion), must be related to financial considerations and keeping the target price of the unit competitive.
Again, on a personal level, I'd much sooner have those extra CPU cycles available (for just in-case scenarios), than artificially capped at a lower rate. As for energy consumption. I know that it's not politically correct, but to be honest that's never been a factor for me to consider (I even leave the tap running when brushing my teeth).
@Neolit Thanks for the reply, it's appreciated. It's been nice to have had this sensible discussion. Lots of differing views, without anyone getting bent out of shape with others.
@Hengist
No worries bud, im all for being put straight when sony does the big reveal, for all i know the cooling system could be coal powered :S
Cost is always a factor when designing a system, even more so for mass production, there has to be a concession somewhere. For xbox, clearly they have traded size, cooling and heat production for performance, hence the need for the elaborate cooling system. Sony on the other hand, will certainly not need such powerfull cooling purely on the basis of how the soc functions. Its very nature, lower power = lower thermals, hence a less elaborate cooling system is needed.
Its the ultimate question though isnt it? How cheaply can you make an effective cooling system for a variable frequency chip, and is it enough to offset the price of that (i suspect expensive) SSD. Will it be enough to remain competitive? Or are they going to need to take that financial hit just to get the machines out there.
Xbox has its cards on the table, heres our chip, heres how it runs, heres how its cooled. Sony, either call or fold, the clocks ticking
It won't really matter if its to expensive I just keep playing on my ps4 Pro till the price comes down, I definitely won't be buying an xbox.
Oh good God,.. Parcher the guy who never gets anything right and throws everything at the wall to see what sticks.. don’t believe a single word he says.
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading you two guys debate in a very respectable manner. I dont pretend to understand everything you guys were discussing but I enjoyed it nonetheless 😊👍
interesting
@Mince I'm going by what the devs have came out and said, and digital foundry said a few things on it. Nothing in depth until they get the tech themselves.
I don't even remember replying to you anyway lol. My comment wasn't aimed at you, or anyone in particular
Until Xbox shows actual exclusives worth playing.... I could care less about that brand (like pretty much the rest of Europe and Asia; Xbox what?). The way MS have treat this current-gen is just pathetic; they know it, you know it, everyone knows it...
While PS is ending this current-gen by releasing 2 major exclusives games, MS is doing basically nothing... so why should I expect they won't do the same thing this coming new-gen... PS and Nintendo is all I need...
after what we have seen happen to tlou2 that ended up as sjw trash fire, the sony exlusive is not that important anymore. so if xbox can announce a 400 dollar console with gamepass and no more gold live but free online gameplay for all. that will punch sony hard under the belt. if that happen i will buy my first xbox.
You guys say sell the systems cheap make up for it on sales........aren't you the same lot who say I haven't bought a current gen game for full price???????? Microsoft giving gamepass away that is there hook you may get a month I don't see three. I still don't see it as viable unless Microsofts goal is to kill off most developers so they can buy them. Let's look at the hospital game that made too 10 in UK but was on gamepass how much do you think those cats lost?
@Mince no worries ☺
@TheBuzz
You make a great point about the gamepass/gold live issue. If im being 100% honest, its the one thing i would strongly urge sony to change. Basic network access to play with friends should always be free.
I have seen arguments saying that it costs money to run those servers, but with all due respect its absolute rubbish. Basic network access is incredibly cheap. So cheap infact that on PC i cant think of a single digital platform that charges for this, not a single one. Uplay, Origin, Steam and Epic Games Store to name but a few, all free to play online. Why? because it so cheap you cannot possibly justify adding it as a cost.
You use more bandwidth downloading game patches (which are free no less) than you ever would in a lifetime of online gameplay.
The main issue i have with PS Plus is that i am forced to buy games i dont nessesarly want (you dont get free games each month, think about it, you really are paying for them), on a digital format that i dont use (i buy all my games physical, why would i want digital as a collector?).
So, if i want to play with my friends, i have to pay for all these extras that i dont want or need. It almost feels as though network play is being held for ransom unless you are willing to buy things you dont want.
It would be the easiest thing in the world to call myself a stingy person, but its certainly far from the truth. In my above comment i mentioned that i own a little over 110 physical games, for the ps4 alone, as well as both a PS4 and a PS4 Pro. But not once, since the console has released have i paid for PS Plus, and nor will i. Its the only way i can protest it.
If sony want a re-occuring monthly subscription service, thats fine, but it should be catered to those who use the platform in that way, and not penalize every single customer.
RDR2 is the perfect example of this, on rockstar PC games app, its 100% free to play online, but if you bought it on PS4, the entire online experience is locked behind a monthly paywall. I paid £60 for a pre-order on that game, only to find that half the content was going to be locked behind a subscription. Rockstar use thier own servers, it litrilly costs sony nothing to allow passthough traffic, yet it still remains a chargable service.
Game streaming (aka PS Now) is completly different, it uses a stupid amount of bandwith and is costly in terms of processing power, that i fully understand. But basic online gameplay should always be free.
Everyone acts like Sony will lose at some point but everyone forgets that they still have games that alot of people want to play and the only way to play them is on PlayStation unlike Xbox where you can just get a PC and keep it better than consoles no matter what. Just about everyone who has an Xbox has a PlayStation anyway just because of the exclusives. Gamers shouldn't worry to much about anything except for the games. If you build a good game, the gamers will come.
Sony would rather eat the cost & launch the PS5 cheaper than the series X, I highly doubt Microsoft will be the cheaper of the 2 consoles especially considering it's got the 'superior' graphics card LMAO but seriously Sony is wise to what Microsoft is trying to do, they're going to do their BEST to make the console sub $500 (maybe $399/$449) while I think the series X will be $499. Sony has done well this last decade with the launch & subsequent lifecycle of the PS4, they are going to do everything in their power to replicate that winning formula! Happy gaming!
Unless it's a massive price difference, I doubt that is gonna be a big deal. If PS5 is 500 dollars and XboxX is 450 I don't think that 50 dollars is gonna be a deciding factor for most gamers. Not really. Sure some people will be turned off but not that big of a group. But if it's a sizable price difference, 100 dollars of more, there's gonna be issues. Like, if one console is 350 and the other is 500+? That's gonna hurt.
On the other hand if PS5 or XboxX has some killer new feature that the other one does not, that's more likely to be a deciding factor.
Personally, if it is true that XboxX supports every Xbox title from the OG system to the new system, and PS5 only plays PS4 and PS5, that's gonna pull me in MS's direction.
@get2sammyb Most people don't care about Forza or Halo. That's why most people have a PS4.
Every reveal from both companies makes me less enthused. Rumours of high prices, vanilla launch games and tech issues, coupled with a feeling this generation end is a comma, not a full stop have pretty much convinced me not to get either box, at least at launch.
@Belekai
you are absolutley right...
"You make a great a great point about the gamepass/gold live issue. If im being 100% honest, its the one thing i would strongly urge sony to change. Basic network access to play with friends should always be free.
I have seen arguments saying that it costs money to run those servers, but with all due respect its absolute rubbish. Basic network access is incredibly cheap. So cheap infact that on PC i cant think of a single digital platform that charges for this, not a single one. Uplay, Origin, Steam and Epic Games Store to name but a few, all free to play online. Why? because it so cheap you cannot possibly justify adding it as a cost.
You use more bandwidth downloading game patches (which are free no less) than you ever would in a lifetime of online gameplay.
The main issue i have with PS Plus is that i am forced to buy games i dont nessesarly want (you dont get free games each month, think about it, you really are paying for them), on a digital format that i dont use (i buy all my games physical, why would i want digital as a collector?).
So, if i want to play with my friends, i have to pay for all these extras that i dont want or need. It almost feels as though network play is being held for ransom unless you are willing to buy things you dont want.
It would be the easiest thing in the world to call myself a stingy person, but its certainly far from the truth. In my above comment i mentioned that i own a little over 110 physical games, for the ps4 alone, as well as both a PS4 and a PS4 Pro. But not once, since the console has released have i paid for PS Plus, and nor will i. Its the only way i can protest it.
If sony want a re-occuring monthly subscription service, thats fine, but it should be catered to those who use the platform in that way, and not penalize every single customer.
RDR2 is the perfect example of this, on rockstar PC games app, its 100% free to play online, but if you bought it on PS4, the entire online experience is locked behind a monthly paywall. I paid £60 for a pre-order on that game, only to find that half the content was going to be locked behind a subscription. Rockstar use thier own servers, it litrilly costs sony nothing to allow passthough traffic, yet it still remains a chargable service.
Game streaming (aka PS Now) is completly different, it uses a stupid amount of bandwith and is costly in terms of processing power, that i fully understand. But basic online gameplay should always be free."
@Belekai
i did hold out until 2016 as a demostration against psplus. but i was over run by all the dimwits (most likely the enrichment from xbox360 refugees that had been indoctrinated since the og xbox) that did drow money at it and claimed psn need it and its much better now that you pay for it (what a lot of bs that was). so in the end i was forced to get psplus, or else i would not experience half of the games i bough, since they had online components. at the time a year cost $48 but i did see sony had cut down the price to $27, so i bought a year, and then i bought for another year. i found out it stacked so i ended up with 5 years of psplus, and now sony have raised the price to $60 (for something that dont cost them nothing). i was lucky and got it for $27 a year. will i buy psplus in 5 years when sony ask for $100 (only gullible dont think the price will go up to this absurdity) a year for their psplus, i will definitive not. when the ps6 arrive i am pretty much done with gaming as a hobby, its gonna be all digital when the ps6 arrive and the price for a game will be over $100 (we are nearly there right now) and its all digital, no thanks, i am done.
@TheBuzz @Belekai 'Basic network access to play with friends should always be free.'
I 100% agree with both of you. Sony & MS are just screwing people with this.
@TheBuzz @Hengist
Its true. At least MS are moving in the right direction, getting rid of gold etc, but we are still a long way away from it being anything resembling value.
It certainly appears that its going to go all digital in the future, but i can honestly say i dont think it will ever truly be 100% digital, they would loose too much money. Dont get me wrong, they will try, and in most cases will succeed, but not without pitfalls.
1) Its 100% internet enabled, unless someone is willing to cough up the cash to give every 3rd world country full fiber access, physical discs will always be needed or you loose those sales.
2) By going all digital, you are effectively killing off any competition, retailers wont be able to compete, pre order bonuses from different outlets will be a thing of the past, and technically you would have a Monopoly on the market. Not only is that anti-competitive, im pretty sure its illegal to deliberately create a monopoly (your country may vary).
3) Finally, all those £200/$200+ collectors editions? Gone. No steel book or figurine for you, just a promise that you can always access a game that you have never actually seen or held.
I think the best solution is already being implemented right now, a form of subscription service whilst retaining physical media. But it has to remain affordable and give value to the customer, somthing that its currently lacking.
Take movies for example, the vast majority of people consume thier media online (e.g Netflix, Hulu, Disney+), but there is always a market for personal copies, a sense of ownership, hence Bluray Discs.
If the games industry went all digital, and the sole marketplace for buying games was through the console manufacturer (PSStore, MSStore), that would be like taking away all blurays, and saying the only place you can get a movie is from netflix. You would be at the mercy of netflix and have no option but to pay what thier asking.
I could be wrong, the future is always full of suprises, i just sinceerly doubt people would accept such a system, if it was even legal in the first place
Seems to be an awful lot of Xbox fanatics on a supposed Playstation enthusiasts news site.
Sony know what they are doing, they've seen this kind of thing before and still prospered. Microsoft may well have dispensable cash to blow, but this is a business still at the end of the day, and Sony have the confidence, Microsoft do not going into this battle.
All Sony have to do is hold their nerve, and wait out this storm of conjecture, and come out the otherside smiling. As is with all human nature, people can't help but get caught up in BS, and then hang all their hats on it like it's some sort of godly halo showcasing what's to come.
If that were the case, the battle would already be won, just calm down, and you'll see it's not at all a close case at all. Xbox will try their damndest to try and capture the market from Sony, but they'll fail, and you know why? Because Microsoft always think they know best, until they don't....Which is 90% of time. Sony have trounced them time, and time again throughout the current generation, it would not be surprising to see this happen again, providing Sony don't get jittery, or overconfident.
@Grindagger
i am a Playstation enthusiasts and have been since 1995, but i am not afraid to give my honest opinion. and i will give the competitor a pat on the shoulder when they do things right. after all i am not a blind fanboy.
@Grindagger
Agreed, i believe sonys console will speak for itself, the proof as they say is in the pudding. Its no longer about which is the more powerful console, but who has the best experience. Cross platform games give the same exprience on the PS4 Pro as they do on the Xbox One X, give or take a minor resolution bump, but they play the same. Its 1st party titles that will decide this one, and sony have got that in spades.
In terms of pricing, im still on the fence on that. While sony did sell the PS3 at considerable loss, they still lost that generation to xbox 360, it was very much a MS dominated time. 360 was much easier to program for, and as such had a bigger library of games initially. By the time PS3 caught up, it was too late, people were already invested in another system. Clearly they pulled that back for current gen with the ps4. And one could argue that it wasnt the most powerfull consoles that won it, but rather the quality of the games, something that MS clearly overlooked this time round.
Im sure MS have realised thier mistake, and will take a great deal of care when producing software/IP for the next generation, which can only be a good thing for people who decided to buy xbox. But ultimately they are still playing catch up in innovation, that sony SSD is really going to hurt them in terms of game quality and experience.
This is pure speculation, but if i had to make a prediction based on all available information as of today, i would say sony will continue to do what they do best, produce high quality games on an affordable, albeit a less powerful machine. While microsoft will do what they do best, provide a service and start edging towards an "alternative" experience rather than trying to beat them outright.
I predict they will make a push to become the dominant digital platform. We have seen them take the first step with the "all digital" xbox one s, they were testing the water. With the changes to xbox gold, and the subscription services they now provide. Its easy to see that they are heading for a different direction rather than direct like for like competition. Coulple that with what microsoft said recently, namley that they dont see sony as competition, would suggest that they are planning to seperate the experience.
As always i could be wrong, but im calling this the Console Cold War
@TheBuzz So would I. But we are not at that point and peoples trust in Sony is already wavering at the first post.
This isnt about being a blind fanboy, it's about putting faith in a company you believe in. There is a difference.
None of this matters if Xbox has the lame selection of exclusives they did this generation.
Sony’s excellent exclusives are reason enough to pay a bit more for their console if this price war happens.
Microsoft may have more money but Sony are leagues ahead with software.
@Constable_What that is a weird thing to do considering all the Xbox games will be available on PC anyway. You’ll miss out on the Sony exclusives. Y’know, the thing that allowed them to thrash the competition this generation.
@Arnna Huh? Yeah, all Xbox games are available on PC, which is why I said my PC is a better value. I already said I'm not getting an Xbox.
@Constable_What I must have misread what you said. My bad
@Arnna No worries. It do be like that sometimes. :3
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