Poll: How Often Will You Use PS5 Backwards Compatibility?

Rarely, if ever, as I'll be keeping my Pro.

All the time! I still need to buy GoT and LoU 2. Bloodborne was just unplayable for me on Ps4. Also God of war sent my ps4 in Jet engine mode. So a lot of games

I'm absolutely using the hell out of backwards compatibility. There are lots of PS4 games I'd love to still get the chance to play or replay like Persona 5 Royal, FFVII Remake, the Yakuza remasters, FFX and XII, Bloodborne, Spider-Man and God of War. BC is basically what's saving this launch from being only okay, and it's a similar story with Series X. Demon's Souls and Spider-Man are great launch titles, but at the end of the day it's just two games, so instant access to all PS4 legacy content minus the critically acclaimed Joe Diner will definitely make up for the shortcomings in terms of library.

I have 100+ games backlog on my ps4, my ps5 will be filled with games from day one lol.

I hope sony update most of their 1st party games to 60 fps, I want to play horizon zd, days gone, death stranding, and others with smooth framerate

Very rarely after a few months. I have played and beaten almost every game that I’m interested in.

Bring on the PS5 exclusives, I’m ready to move on.

I tend to play the same games with my mates online, BF5, GT sport, dirt 2.0, grid, bit of red dead every now and then. Therefore I'll probably use it a fair bit until newer versions are launched. I don't normally look for backwards compatibility on a console, but in this instance it'll be a bonus.

Well, I'm only buying Miles Morales at launch, so pretty often I'd say! Excited for the Hot Pursuit Remaster, and there are a few titles on the Plus Collection haven't played.

I have a mountain of backlog games so yeah for the first year or two at least i will use it a lot. Hell providing i can net a PS5 at launch one of the games what will get most time from it within its first month or two will be a PS4 game in Cyberpunk.

In the first year, pretty often as I catch up on anything good I missed on PS4. After that, likely 10% of the time. B/C is super important to me early on in the gen only.

Think there should be an option "will use it a lot at first but once more next gen games come out will never use it"

Ill be playing PS4 games on it for the most part only game I'm buying out right is GTA 6.
none of the new ps5 games interest me, I have demon souls on PS3 the ps5 is the exact same only shinier if they put in save state function IL be interested.

I'll be using it day 1 for Cyberpunk but beyond that except out of curiosity for games like Ghost of Tsushima at 60fps, I doubt I'll use it much at all. PS1 and PS2 games I would have used it for a lot but as much as I enjoyed PS4 games I don't really have time to return to them

I'm sure we'll use it plenty. With hundreds of digital games, about 100 plus games, evergreen titles my kids still play like PVZGW2, Destiny, Division, Minecraft etc it'll get a good amount of use in my house, at least for the first few years I imagine

I’ll use it to try ps now games I haven’t played before, but I never replay old games.

Put me down to I’m keeping my PS4 so unless there are any new additions to the experience (Ghost of Tsushima) I’m not using backwards compatibility

If the PS5 is quieter than my PS4 Pro I'll use it a lot to play games that were not so fun on my pro. I'll replay God of War and Death Stranding for starters.

Since I never owned a PS4 Pro I'm really looking forward to play games like God of War or FFXV with 60fps (well they never really hit 60fps on the Pro anyway)

Also haven't played Ghost of Tsushima yet, definitely will play that on the PS5 with the new 60fps mode
I really hope more games get a 60fps mode, it's just so much smoother

After the first year PS5 will have enough games most people wont have the spare time to play BC PS4 games. Of course there are people that do not buy many games. The BC feature will be more used by them.

I held off buying a PS4 last year because the PS5 was just doing the corner, so I'll be using this for the whole PS+ collection as well as everything that wasn't released on Steam last gen

@deathaxe to be fair getting the Kotor games to run on Windows 7 was a ball ache, they were not the best coded games in all history…

I’m sure I’ll use it early on whilst there aren’t as many next gen games, it’ll be nice to see some updates for more first party games. But I’m not sure I’ll be using it much 12+ Months in.

I play Final Fantasy XIV everyday, so I will be constantly using it. I have 190 digital games purchased in my library.

I’ll rarely use it. I’ve got a huge backlog, but I think 90% will be stuck there forever. Always new stuff stuff coming out that interests me more. However, it’s nice the option is there.

I use it a few times a year on the Xbox.

I'm more likely to play PS4 games on it than PS5 games.

If they add a slot for Betamax tapes, I’m all in!

I’m planning on keeping my PS4 hooked up and will play games at least towards the start of the generation. I’ll probably only play any with upgrades on the PS5.

I always use my Xbox One X for b/c. Completed Portal 2 yesterday. Currently playing RDR on it.

I expect it will become my main system and I'll be moving my pro to another room. I have a large back catalog of ps4 games I'm still working through.

I'll use it all the time because I didn't have a PS4. I've got a lot of games to catch up on.

You’d have included an answer about VR as for sure I’ll try VR games and the PS5 improves them I will replay blood and truth, Astro bots, Worlds and another couple.
Non VR games? Maybe some that I missed

Just a couple of games at the beginning then I'll move on.

@Lorben
Nice. The PS+ collection is just ideal for you to get going:)

not that often i'd guess - want to go back to days gone - was making my ps4 pro sounds unhealthily loud other than that..... well might play cyberpunk but sure a native ps5 version will arrive pretty quickly for it

I constantly play games from prior to the current gen. I have loads of great PS3 and 360 games I’ve never touched, and this year alone I’ve played plenty of games from the previous gen for the first time like Thousand Year Door and Viewtiful Joe. I wish everything was fully backwards compatible.

I'll be playing Cyberpunk 2077 for a good couple of months using BC. After that I will mainly be using it inbetween PS5 games, if that ever happens. I have quite a meaty backlog so will have no shortage of games to play.

I think almost every player will use backwards compatibility at least in the PS5's first year.

My backlog is HUGE. So after the initial month of PS5 games and the subsequent dry of new PS5 releases I'll be back playing and trying to end as many PS4 games I can!

So none of these answers apply to me, I will be getting one to replace my PS4 and will continue chipping at the backlog (with the occasional new games played on day one).

There are so many games i want to try out again..some people seem to think that there is little to no difference between ps4 and ps4 pro enhanced versions..i cant wait to find out for myself..

The number of people that will use BC based on the survey seems so high, it might had been suicidal of Sony to actually listen to the "I only buy new consoles for new games" crowd.

I still have to play Ghost of Tsushima, Days Gone and FF VII remake and I'm happy I'll do that with a PS5.
And I'd like to play again games like Deus Ex MD, Nier Automata and Kingdom Come Deliverance since they struggled on my old PS4.
And I'll do another run with Bloodborne, the three Dark Souls, Alien Isolation andTLOU2: perfect games that will be even more perfect with some extra power.
But I'll play Demon Souls first!

Constantly as I binge Yakuza 2-6 (got rid of the Pro after 0 and Kiwami).

I will only use it at the start of the gen clearing my back log of ps4 games but its great to have I suppose

Considering my immense backlog across all platforms, I'll probably be playing more BC games at max performance on all systems than new games!

@JJ2 Yep yep.

Getting Spider-Man: Miles Morales Ultimate and PS+ at launch. Should keep me busy for quite a while.

I also added The Nathan Drake Collection to my account when it was free earlier this year, so with Uncharted 4 in the PS+ Collection I'll have all 4 games on hand. I didn't have a PS3 either, so any re-releases or remasters are going to be new to me as well. Been out of the Playstation ecosystem since the PS2PSP.

Wont be getting a ps5 until the slim releases, and by then they'll probably have done away with BC anyway.

@Sanquine
I’m replaying Bloodborne right now, and while 30fps isn’t ideal, it’s nowhere near ‘unplayable’, like not even remotely close.

@get2sammyb a big chunk of the entire market revolves around old games. Just because it was released long ago does not mean it's not new for a lot of people.

Back catalog is a non-insignificant chunk of any publishers revenue, especially in the digital age where they don't have to justify a store to keep them on stock.

The fact that many chains, like Best Buy, dedicate a lot of their gaming floor space exclusively to $20 Greatest Hits line of games (that been in the market for years) says a lot. It tends to suck that, for consoles, all that market segment gets demolished because the new consoles usually have no BC.

Even then, at least up to last year, Gamestop had a big chunk of floor space dedicated to PS3/360 used games.

A lot my backlog is huge so.definetly will use it.word up son

I'll use it sometimes like maybe at launch, I have maneater digital so why not get the ps5 version, I have the witcher 3 so I will play those again. I was debating on control ultimate edition as its not to expensive but not sure. Anyway plenty to play on backwards compat

All the Time!

I'm getting the console on launch day but not getting games till Christmas. Day one on ps5 for me will be astrobot and God of war!

@Paranoimia The ps5 is my pro.

I gave my pre-order away to my friends for their boy due to the lack of games at launch that appeal to me.

I couldn't justify shelling out £450 just to play games that I can play on the Pro I already own.

And if there isn't more games available by February (when I'll be getting the PS5 as a gift) that appeal to me, I may only be playing backwards compatible games then.

All the time. I will probably hold it off for a while to see if any games would receive a PS5 patch / version, then start with it, as I have a large number of unplayed PS4 games, both physical and digital, plus, I tend to re-play games all the time (across all generations). I also plan to get rid off of my PS4.

@Maxtremors Its not unplayable but of you die a lot which i did i saw loading screen far more than i want to.. This was before all the patches though. Bloof starved beast took me 20 times..

I'll never use it, because I'm not getting a PS5 since it continues the trend of not supporting PS1, PS2 and PS3 back-compat. I'm sticking with my Vita and PS3 as my primary PlayStation systems, getting the eventual Switch revision and upgrading my PC. Past month or two I've been collecting Vita games like mad, now that I've realized they aren't doing any more sales and prices are going up.

I'll upgrade my Ryzen 2700 once 5nm, PCIE 5.0 and DDR5 hit the market, and I'll either get Big Navi or wait until next gen to upgrade my 1080 Ti. Hopefully the rumored Super Switch has DLSS upscaling to 4K, but I'd be content with image sharpening. My PS4's collecting dust while my PS3 and Vita are used every single week, and I'm not getting a PS5 unless they add PS1/PS2 back-compat, WITH my old library playable, or when I can get a PS5 Pro out of the bargain bin. I'm patient.

Once, Tsushima for that sweet NG+ at 60fps. That’s it

That damn backlog...I still need to finish God of War, Days Gone and Persona 5. I won't even pretend that I'll ever finish Bloodborne. Then I need to start Horizon, The Last Guardian and both Gravity Rushes. And that doesn't cover multiplat games like Dying Light, Wolfenstein, Assassin's Creed, Doom, etc.

At least first year, there is no need to buy overpriced ps5 games. Until FFXVI...

@get2sammyb I think we're at a point where "new games" simply means it's a newly made game on the market and may have some additional visual or design trend features, but with the end of massive computing leaps per generation and the effect of diminishing returns really throwing its weight now, "new game" vs "old game" isn't the fundamental difference it once meant, and a gen 8 game isn't going to feel out of place on a gen 9, or even 10 console. Heck, gen 7 games wouldn't really feel out of date at this point, though Now remains the only way to play them on PS. Sure the hardware is "so much better" the storage of the PS5 really changes things, etc. But fundamentally the difference between a PS3, PS4, and PS5 is each one has more power...nothing fundamental. If we go back to PS2 or PS1 things are very very different for each generation. I doubt most people have played even half of the PS4 games they want to play yet. Even if we already bought them.

@Paranoimia
What if you could play your ps4 games at 4k/60fps on ps5?

@get2sammyb Having not upgraded my PS4, I will surely notice a bigger difference between my actual gaming experience and the one offered by a PS5 so I'm very attracted by BC and what it can offer.
Those with a Pro maybe are less curious...

Other than godfall I do not plan on purchasing any new PS5 games within two or three months of its release. I mainly just want the console so that all of my old PS4 games can run better and load faster. I will be playing Marvel Avengers, Red Dead Redemption 2 online, PUBG, OverWatch, and Ghost of Tsushima.

I am also playing on an original PlayStation 4, and will notice a 7 years technological change.

@Omnistalgic this should have been an option. I'll use it loads at first too, then I'm sure it will tail of in 6 to 12 months

@get2sammyb I don't know others but I always been adamant about BC, preferably as far back as possible, but at least prev gen.

Last gen, I didn't voice it much because neither party other than Nintendo did BC. Interestingly, before the switch, Nintendo did its best to keep BC with at least one generation when possible.

All the mobile lines supported one Gen back, and they also did it in GC > Wii and then Wii > Wii U.

I was honestly shocked the Switch didn't offer 3DS sized carts, if only so they could keep that one Gen thing going.

Anyways, one thing I recall hearing a lot early in this Gen was how both, the PS4 and XB1 were so PC like, that it would be nearly certain for them to offer near perpetual BC, just like we have on PC. It might had been taken way for granted, but it lead me to buy more PS4 games than I have ever bought for any generation. 160 PS4 game disks, and that's only the physycal games. I don't regret getting these games since many are out of print and out of sale (don't take away my Transformers Devastation or my Deadpool!) Plus, there are games I replay every couple of years (like Assassins Creed Ezio games, 3 and 4.)

@Chryssy75 It's not something which bothers me. If the frame rate is smooth and consistent, I'm quite happy with 1080p and 30fps. If I was bothered by that stuff, do all my gaming on my PC.

I still have a big backlog and stuff I'd love to revisit on ps5 bc

If it were PS1, 2 and 3, I would use it all the time. But ever since PlayStation stopped caring about their archive and allowed Xbox to take all the shine, it's been pretty sad to watch. I would have thought they would be more eager to support their legacy, especially with how much chest thumping their competition made about this generation. PS4 is still recent, so if it's a game that gets improved, I might play it.

My ps 4 pro is on its way out so this will be replacing it.

"Nobody ever uses BC"

Half of people vote that they'd use it all the time, with less than 5% saying they'd never use it

A lot, I have a ton of PS4 games I want to revisit and start.

Those voting never - you are gonna have a quiet few months of gaming on launch 😂😂

All the time for the first year or two. Please repeat this question two years from now, hehe. =)

I have a feeling that BC is going to be a huge thing this gen. The fact is that even with PS5 games releasing there's still going to be some really cool (and cheap) PS4 games to buy and play as time goes on. Instead of PS4/PS5, it will be kind of PlayStation games as a whole.

I don't understand why some people are talking about keeping their PS4 hooked up to play older games, and just playing PS5 games on the new console. Seems easier and with less clutter to just use the PS5, plus you can give or sell your PS4 to someone. #Hoarders

I gave my PS4 to my brother in 2016 when I built my PC. Missed out on every major title that released after that and I want to replay a few that came before that! So i'll be using it often lol.

For a while quite a lot. I have 400 games in my library and obviously a huge amount of them i haven't finished (or in some cases played - a lot of ps+ games) my brain gets distracted very easily!

But as my ps5 library builds probably less and less. Will be playing Cyberpunk if that counts but ps5 versions of AC, Watchdogs and Hitman etc and Destiny 2 is my ongoing game of choice..

For me this gen has so much closer cross over than previous ones, i still want to finish so many ps4 games but ps3 i just left behind..

With so much talk about BC, from both sides, this feels like ps4pro 2.0 and xb one x 2.0. And we'll get a "patch" later on when cross-gen gaming is fully done.

I will absolutely use it. Sony consoles being even somewhat BC are pretty rare!
I will continue to play:
Hatsune Miku Future Tone
Dark Souls 1,2,3
Bloodborne
All the RE games.
Meat boy

I never stop playing these games so I’m super happy they will all work!!!!

@Sanquine BB ran slightly better with boost mode on the Pro. Did you really find it unplayable at 30fps? You do you of course but that statement seems a bit hyperbolic.

@ScottyG you’ve got a LOAD of catching up to do so I’m not surprised! You’re in for a treat with all the brilliant exclusives that came out after 2016!
Wish I could experience those games fresh! Sometimes I play on a different account so I can replay games with the trophies reset.

@JoshuaTChandler it might be an issue of HD space. I have a 3tb HD connected to my Pro but I have about 130 games so they don’t all fit.
Personally I’ll be buying an external drive to house the PS4 games I want to play on PS5 so I can use them all on the new system.

Important to remember that PS4 games can only be played with PS4 controllers so if you’re like me and thrash your controllers it might be a good idea to buy a couple of reserve controllers because they will stop producing them.

@Richnj agreed that’s a weird thing to say. Sony users haven’t had much of a choice. If I was able to play my ps3 games on PS4 I would have done exactly that. But I couldn’t.

Assuming they are actually available for purchase, I will use it occasionally once I can actually find one.

Since only certain HDDs can be used, I might just keep my OG PS4 for PS4 games. I have a 4 TB hard drive for it and I'm not giving up all that space.

I have a large backlog of ps4 games and I’ve been holding off playing some games to take advantage of ps4 pro and game boost modes on ps5 so I plan on using backwards compatibility a lot.
Then again I have a large backlog of ps3 games that I barely made any progress on in 7 years, so who knows.

Sometimes at the start of the gen, probably rarely towards the end of it but it's better to have this feature than not have it.

This question really depends on if and for how long the £70 price tag floats around before being flushed. It could be a good year or so before I start playing ps5 regularly.

yup, l shall use it pretty much exclusively to begin with. in fact, it's the only reason I'm adopting ps5 on day one!

l have a HUGE backlog, but l am really looking forward to playing everything on ps5 with extra benefits (ghosts of tsushima l haven't even bought yet! 😁) and I'm also very interested to see what ps5 can do for psvr, whether tracking will be improved with the new camera for ps aim controller.... most games seem to be cross gen to begin with anyways.

I'd be tempted to buy GT7 if there's a surprise early release date, but l doubt that, it would have been confirmed by now as it would sell consoles. one thing I'm secretly hoping for is a patch to enable full psvr support for GTsport, which should be possible.... 🤔

I'll have a huge backlog of PS4 games. So i'll use it often in the first year or so. However, i plan to finish the campaign of each game only once and will not revisit already completed PS4 games on the PS5.
But i also have a PSVR. And i will continue to play those games (like Beat Saber) regularly during mij PS5 life cycle.
These count as backwards compatibility games too, right?

Once I have finished Cyberpunk I don't think I will play any PS4 games on the PS5, my pro will still be setup as my VR machine so if I want to play a PS4 game then I would use that but probably only for VR games. Look forwards not backwards 😜

I expect I'll be using it a lot at first, as I've got a fairly big backlog of games to get through, and will be selling my PS4 to help fund my PS5. I'd rather play them on PS5 since I only have a base PS4 so I'm quite keen to have them running at higher specs where supported. Probably after a year or two it'll be less important to me though.

Need change your poll
Upgrade and backward compatibility are not always same thing.
Upgrade reference to ps5 version of the game

Something I'd be using quite a bit. I've got a good lot of games in my backlog.

@dbunny
Unfortunately the new ps5 camera doesn’t work with PSVR. They are meant to be letting us apply for a free adapter for the PS4 camera to plug in to the ps5. I’m still hoping the pS5 will improve things in games like Skyrim VR though.

@thefourfoldroot thanks for letting me know buddy, l had not heard that! that's a shame!

are you playing on a base ps4 or ps4pro? I've only played VR on ps4pro but I've found everything running well on it, l spent 290hours in skyrimVR!

l literally got the pro solely for VR, l have no 4ktv, it has a boost mode and does its supersampling trick which can be used with VR games, but l have no comparison to what it's like on a base system. I'm hoping to see further improvements on ps5, but tbh they've haven't really said much about VR on ps5 so l hope that doesn't end up with a disappointment....

I’ll be playing Spider-Man remastered and Miles to start with, then when it dries up, yeah I’ll be back logging games like the Witcher, persona royal, death stranding etc.

@dbunny
I don’t do mid gen refreshes, just get the base consoles. Skyrim ran perfectly for me, but the internal resolution it ran at combined with the (admittedly small on PSVR) screen door effect just made it too blurry for me. I heard on pro it’s better but not great, hence hoping that the ps5 can improve things further. Although now MS has bought Bethesda any hope of an actual PSVR upgrade patch it out the window.

@Arnna I had a Phat BC PS3 and I loved it. I was gutted the day it died.

When there were those rumours about the PS5 being BC with all gens I was really leaning towards getting a PS5 at launch. As it stands, now we know the details, I'm OK to just stick with my base PS4, Xbone S and Switch for a few more years.

@thefourfoldroot the mid gen refresh was only possible for me because GAME (uk shop) had an offer of trading in your old ps4 and a few games to get the pro half price, my ps4 was knackered and the controller was a bit broken! so l thought sod it! I'll go for it. tbh I've been really pleased with it

well, l was surprised that minecraft got a free psvr update recently so who knows? but you're probably right 😉

@dbunny
I’ve never sold or exchanged any console ever (right back to my c64, they are all in storage) but I might well just do it with the PS4. With the ps5 being back compat and so large. But then I think I might just keep the PS4 as a media device fir Netflix, Amazon etc. And for playing blu rays and avoid wearing out the ps5 in some way...depends how much CEX will give me for a launch model 500gb I guess.

Edit: looks like £123

I'll be playing Yakuza Like a Dragon (standard PS4 backwards compatability obviously), Kingdom Hearts Melody of Memory, Dragon Quest XIS, Cyberpunk 2077 and I'll finish my playthrough of Mafia 2 DE then I ain't got any PS4 games I'll be needing to play, but I'm still open to finding some last gen hidden gems just to beat the drought

@thefourfoldroot if you've got them all from the c64 then l think you should keep it! that sounds like an amazing collection! l have none of my old systems (apart from ps3) and I've had all playstations and xbox's, few Nintendos and some segas! l started on the zx spectrum lol 😆 oh yes and an atari ste too 😁

One game: Monster Hunter World. Maybe Final Fantasy VII Remake, but that's really it. I'm starting to feel the "One-N-Done" that Xbox fans talk about. Value over quantity, lads.

@dbunny
Perhaps, but from last gen I started trading my games in. I saw the thousands of pounds worth of games collecting dust and knew I’d never play them again, so...

PS Now for PS5 will be 100% PS4 games, so anyone who has this will have to use backwards compatibility... :/

@Sanquine yeah probably explains why the PS5 is so big probably to help cooling so it won't sound like a jet engine and better cooling means better performance

Although affording a PS5 at present is a if/when scenario,sadly, will definitely take advantage of b/c regarding the backlog or possibly if there's titles to take advantage of extra modes. Not to mention in the shorter term ps4 games,(esp. indies),will tend to be cheaper anyway. With any luck either via competition or time, the launch gen ps5 titles will gradually start coming down via sales etc.,so look at additional next gen options then.

@thefourfoldroot true, but l really wish I'd kept everything I've had so far. it would be great to look back at it all 20-30 years from now!

With those prices for PS5 games, it'll be a long time before I buy new games. 80€ plus tax plus shipping? My ass. 400+ Backlog, thank you.

@Arnna
That is part of my point, instead of just leaving your PS4 hooked up, you can sell it and use an external drive.

I understand saving your old PlayStation for a younger person in the household to use, but keeping it to save space on your PS5 is more trouble then just getting a cheap external drive for storage and or transfer.

I should have mentioned the alternative to saving your PS4 for the space, and using an external drive instead.

I have my pro to play all my old games, i may try 1 or 2 on the ps5, but the ps5 is for current gen games

So when I got my first PS4 pro in 2016 from that time forward I stopped buying physical copies of my PS4 games, mostly because my wife started playing with me so I didn't want to purchase games twice. In those 4 years I've amassed a massive digital library of PS4 games, I'd say 70% of my library has been played to 💯 percent completion but I still have games I've yet to dive into. I'm genuinely happy Sony has made the PlayStation 5 fully backwards compatible with the PS4 as it allows for a massive library to always be available for play. I will continue buying digital copies of games as my wife and I plan on getting the PS5 within the first year of it's release, it will be the first PlayStation console since the PS2 that I will NOT be buying on day one. The reason for this logic is I still have games to finish on my PS4 pro but mainly because I know for a fact that by waiting I will be able to get the PS5 with an actual library of PS5 games that I want to play. Right now spiderman: miles morales, DMC5, Sack boy big adventure and Assassin's Creed Valhalla are the ONLY PS5 titles I'm interested in at the moment and most of them can be played on my PS4 pro. I want to get the PS5 when God of War Ragnarok is released because I know deep down they'll release a badass PS5 bundle with it and that's probably the biggest reason I'm waiting. I loved reading all these comments, happy gaming!

Not as often as I would if I could play my PS1 to PS3 games on it too.

Even if we were getting rid of our PS4 Pro, we wouldn't use the backwards compatibility much.

There's really only one reason it exists - to ease the transition from previous gen to current gen.

Not very often because it doesn't include PS2 and PS3 games. Those are the two systems' games I wanted included the most in any BC program. IDGAF about PS4 bc, tbh.

if you did not finish playing ps4 games, you will not finish ps5 games neither, especially if you keep playing ps4 games.

Surprised 50 percent will use it all the time. Casuals will certainly will not use it.