What Would the Super League Mean for FIFA 22?

With any luck they'll take VAR with them.

Hopefully the backlash continues and these billionaires see sense. Absolutely everyone has to band together to push this nonsense away as quickly as possible, or football as we know it (even if it's not perfect!) is doomed.

Oh. So that's what my soccer fan friends were talking about yesterday.

Red Devils Vs Unreal Madrid

I have a new found admiration for Levy . He's managed to convince people Spurs are an ' Elite ' club.

Can someone explain this proposed super league to me? Is it just an invitational tournament and the FA and UEFA are spitting their dummies out as it challenges their monopoly? Or will it actually impact other competitions? Like will these teams leave their domestic leagues by choice? (Not be forced out). How will it impact competition other than these teams having more money than others in the league (which, let’s face it, has been the case for ages due to sponsorship deals and rich owners).
I’m just not seeing the big deal, which makes me think I’m missing something significant as the reaction has been overwhelmingly negative.

It’s absolutely dreadful. Sheer unbridled greed. Nobody wants real life to turn out like PES just because billionaires want more billions. I vote we just replace every Super League team with East London.

@thefourfoldroot It’s a replacement for the Champions League where the rich teams don’t have to qualify, like Eurovision. It’s utterly terrible considering that West Ham are about to qualify for the Champions League by playing well, whereas they wouldn’t qualify for this new tournament because they aren’t as rich as Liverpool or Arsenal, who are below them in the league. It’s a closed shop, which stifles competition. The money also wouldn’t filter down to lower league teams who depend on it to survive. Plus since this is unauthorised, any player from these teams won’t be able to play in the World Cup or Euros.

@thefourfoldroot as it is, the top 4 teams in each league in Europe get into the European Champions League, which is worth a huge amount of money, based on merit. What these 12 teams have decided is that they will participate in their own version of a European competition midweek every year no matter how well or badly they perform the previous season, with only 5 teams being able to join them on merit. They basically want to fix it so they are guaranteed billions each season no matter what just because they say so.

No only that, they expect to stay in their own respective leagues whilst also taking away any incentive to compete for the other teams with no hope of aiming for European qualification. It's pretty rotten.

@hypnotoad One of the best comments I have seen in all this

I can't see it actually happening but if it does those teams need kicking out of every other competition! The fans and players will soon get sick of watching/playing the same games over and over again. In the meantime the Premier league without them may well be much more competitive, exciting and unpredictable.

I hate FIFA and I hate UEFA but damn now I hate these 12 clubs even more! This is ridiculous and I hope they ban them from every other competition and even taking their champions league titles away!

I'm a Spurs fan and am disgusted they would consider this and, considering how bad we are, embarrassed. It's one thing wanting to play the same 12 teams over and over again until monotony, it's another LOSING every one of those games as well!!

@AFCC Absolutely yeah, FIFA and UEFA are corrupt but these teams are really going for a ‘hold my beer’ scenario.

Its funny that Europeans absolutely hate a new league forming, meanwhile in America, fans of leagues like the NFL constantly wish a new league would form to give competition.

@nessisonett
So the champions league is being removed as a competition? Or would it still go ahead? If the former then I can see how terrible it is.

@Old-Red
So the champions league will be stopped? Or will these clubs just not compete leaving their space for others? If that’s the case it will help other clubs, and it’s only corrupt UEFA losing their monopoly we need feel sorry for.

@hypnotoad Well, based on finances we are.

We did reach a CL final only two years ago and aren't financially doped unlike City and Chelsea.

Not sure why we are the subject of such ire, We're merely following the mega rich not the instigators.

I hope it doesn't happen, I don't actually think it's in our interests. We'd likely become the Detroit Lions or Cincinnati Bengals of the League anyway.

@Col_McCafferty Aren't Spurs reportedly £400m in debt ?

@hypnotoad More than that I believe but its due to the Stadium so it can be paid over time just like any loan or mortgage. I can't stand Levy or ENIC but they have abided by FFP and saw the new Stadium as essential to the future progress of the club.

They deserve all the criticism in the world but Spurs as a club certainly don't. They haven't always owned us, we have a long history without them and likely a future as well.

@JON22 fascinating comment, thanks for your contribution.

😒

@thefourfoldroot basically remove the top teams that want to go into the super league and whoever is in top 5 of each of the league will be in the champions league next season if it went ahead.

EA might have to code something different rather than peddling the same stuff every year?

@hypnotoad barca 1 billion in debt and Madrid got tonnes of debt to, obviously that's without utds over 400 million in debt to obviously then the other clubs if and what debt they have.

@hoffa007
Oh, ok, well, what’s bad about that then? I’m struggling to understand the ire. I’m currently just thinking all the insults and fuss, including threatening employees of these clubs with restrictions on their work, is simply the result of the FA and UEFA not wanting to have their monopolies challenged. Why should clubs, hundreds of years old, not be able to join a competition if they want 🤷‍♂️ As long as they are not expecting to also be in the champions league.

@thefourfoldroot whether they reamin in the domestic league or league, either way the domestic league dies.

It would be an INCREDIBLE opportunity for PES to step in and stake a next-gen claim. If proper licenses aren't the be all end all and they missed a year out to create a new game then good luck to them.

Can we get a new FIFA Street?

@BowTiesAreCool
Can you explain that to me? Like, what is the fear with some clubs being in a completely separate competition as well as the domestic league?

I would like the new UE4-powered PES to hold more licensed stuffs and again pose as a serious threat to FIFA 20$$.

EA will simply buy the rights also.

@thefourfoldroot UEFA has proposed a new version of the Champions League with 35 teams, but obviously this Super League has ruined that. Honestly, I think the 12 clubs going for the European Super League never really thought it would happen, I think they are trying to push for a higher share of the money from the new CL format.

It has spectacularly backfired though. There is going to be many large portions of humble pie guzzled up in the coming weeks.

@Old-Red
Maybe. But I’m more inclined to believe they want to guarantee funds rather than risk falling out of the champions league.
Honestly, I’d be excited to watch this new league, most football fans would. The richest clubs in the league would still be so and smaller clubs would, apparently, get to enter the champions league.
It seems the FA and UEFA have just had better PR people in this debate because, honestly, I see nothing bad here. Except for the FA and UEFA, as they lose the lustre of having the biggest competition.

I might have more time for the FA’s position if they hadn’t allowed rich owners to pump money from outside of football into clubs. At least money here will be from the game.

As a fan of one of these clubs I find it disgusting and an insult to the clubs history. No matter what happens I won’t forgive them for this act of pure greed.

As for FIFA I don’t care what happens to it I don’t play it anymore.

@Fenbops
Why? Why would taking part in a separate invitational competition be a bad thing? I keep asking people but nobody can give me a straight answer. I’m sure you have your reasons, and I respect your passion, but I can’t understand. Who is hurt by it?

“ That means the Premier League is a "less valuable product", which reduces its value [...] they'll be saving their biggest and best players for the Super League”

This is a big supposition. Especially as, as you say, these teams will not be in the champions / Europa league, so it’s not like there will be a huge number of extra games.

Even if there is though, will this not allow those smaller teams you mention to compete better in the Premiership? Especially as smaller clubs will move up to Europa / Champions a league positions.

All we are talking about is some clubs competing in another competition. Fans will get to see their clubs compete in extra competition, clubs get more money from the media, nobody loses. Apart from the FA and UEFA who I don’t respect at all.

As to no promotion of relegation - that’s true of any cup competition. Is it bad some founding clubs are guaranteed entry for a time - maybe, but they are the organisers. They are losing European places to enter. And you could argue they have earned there place over many many seasons of success (apart from those the FA let be funded by rich owners)

As much as I love Manchester United I’m against them supporting and being one of the founding members of this new league. It just goes against the traditional football that we know and love, there’s just no need for this new league. We have domestic leagues, champions league and the World Cup that’s enough football all year round.

I really hope FIFA and UEFA follow through with their threats if all this goes ahead because if they do then I think all the big clubs will realise that the European Super League would not be worth it without the Premier League, FA Cup, La Liga, etc.

As for the big teams not being in the FIFA games (if it ever came to that) I’d still be playing them even if my favourite team isn’t in it anymore because I just don’t like PES, I’ve always preferred FIFA since the 90’s.

Yeah cause FIFA and UEFA really have fans thoughts in their hearts, they aren't greedy at all

@thefourfoldroot The problem is simple. It removes competition and offers no chance to others.

Other folks have highlighted in these comments how money from clubs at the top of the pyramid feed those at the bottom so, while that is all very valid information, i will look at it a different way.

The idea of the champions league is that entry is a reward for teams who play well, regardless of how much money they have. This new league set up by a small group of billionaires (lets be clear there, it isnt the clubs, players, managers, etc... its a decision taken by the owners and directors) removes the need for competition and the teams in it are their pureley on 'merit', i.e. monetary value.

The idea is that these teams can never be removed from that league and will play each other over and over making that small group of billionaires more money. Team plays badly, no problem. Five additional teams each year will be rotated on 'merit'. Your club earns money, then youre in. All of this lines the pockets of a small few individuals and because its a closed league (5 spaces rotated on merit for all of the participating leagues from different countries), they cant compete. The money fed down dries up, hard working clubs go under through the greed of that small group of people who already own more than most will ever see.

Up until the weekend liverpool were fighting tooth and nail to finish top four and get a champions league spot. Last night they drew with leeds and missed a chance close the gap. Im a Man U fan but the tension in a game when you need those points is undescribable. As a rival fan I would normally be jumping around when leeds scored because it made liverpools job harder. Now though, theres no point to the match because they are guaranteed to play in europe and get paid anyway. Now youd think liverpool fans would be made up about that but they arent. Because they want their team to fight and earn that right.

Man u fans do not want that guarantee for our club. Liverpool fans do not want that guarantee and its safe to say neither do the other fans. We want to play against the best of the best and that means playing against those clubs that earned it, regardless of whether a small bunch of money grabbing peckers think they bring enough money to the table to play.

That’s Chelsea walking away! Good.

@Weebleman
That would be a valid argument if 1) the other European competitions changed in any way or 2) this new league wasn’t funnelling money down in exactly the same way as the current European competitions.

“ We are talking about €400m, which is huge.” Laghari said that payment compares with just €130m that Uefa currently distributes.”

I am so happy that finally, someone is standing against Fifa and UEFA. For the people that say the league is boring or not fair, they will definitely change the rules if they see that people are not watching their matches, so don't worry about that. Also, please don't talk about greed because the most greedy organization in Europe is Fifa, not these teams.

@thefourfoldroot

1) there was changes coming to the champions league. They were actually due to be announced yesterday but this has taken over all other news.

2)the money from the new league can only be used for infrastructure improvements, covid deficit, etc... at participating clubs, not transfers.

Look, Fifa and Uefa are all about money lets not kid ourselves. The difference is any club out there can earn the right to that cash boost. Leicester were fighting relegation one season then the very next they won the league, got into the champions league and were awarded financially. This eliminates that because without these teams the champions league loses value. It just takes the sport out of sport.

It all boils down to money. The lesser of two evils if you will as the devil we know lets anyone have a shot at the cash and takes its cut. This new one already picked its winners and is going to let them win year in year out without challenge while it rakes it in.

@nessisonett City as well now. Talksport saying all 12 clubs meeting tonight to disband it.

From a selfish point of view, if this debacle means Ed Woodward gets kicked out of my club then its been worth it.

@Weebleman
I don’t buy the whole “this devalues other competitions” argument. To fans, winning cups and competitions is what matters, not how much money each brings.

@thefourfoldroot well your are entitled to your opinion pal but judging from whats going on I disagree. Its quite clear that other things matter to fans a lot more.

@thefourfoldroot We’ve seen plenty of examples of sports league where it’s a show with nothing at steak. It tends to result in lower player wages less investment in grassroots and more profit for owners.

I can certainly see why fans of clubs going down that route would be upset.

FIFA is the last of my concerns about the whole situation.

Haven't been following the ESL story as I don't really bother with the news, but a friend told me about it a couple of days ago. I've no interest in it. From what that friend has told me, it'll start with 6 teams from England, 3 each from Spain and Italy? Hardly "European".

I think football needs to move back towards the fans, not further towards making the rich even more billions. And I say that as a fan of one of the proposed 'founding teams', Arsenal, who - given recent history - has no business being in it anyway.

@Weebleman Congrats, that’s Woodward resigned. Never been a Man U fan but as a Celtic fan, I know just how frustrating it can be with a board that the fans hate and consistently make the wrong decisions.

@nessisonett They want the money purely for themselves and Florentino has the guts to say this isn't about money LOL

@Ryall
But things are at stake - not for investors, that’s more of a certainty - but for fans every game is important, ever win and loss significant, whether in a league in which you earn entry, or a cup where you are in the bag from the start, or invitationals like this...my view anyway. The money or lack of money is not as important as the match day. I don’t see how fans wouldn’t like to see more high profile match up of Europe’s best.

@nessisonett a silver lining in this absolutely debacle. Rumblings that the glazers will be putting a for sale up at the end of the week also. We can but hope.

FIFA and UEFA are two of the most corrupt sport institutions out there. So I'm not siding with them either. If you are, then you are being an hypocrite.

Also, all these teams (the ones in and the ones out of this Super League) are greedy as heck. And please don't say it is just the owners, players are to blame too.

Honestly, nothing of this would have happened if FIFA and UEFA were doing a better job managing all these competitions (some more redundant than others) and paying these teams better for winning them. Again corruption at the highest level.

Also, that new format presented by UEFA (for 2024) is a joke too... 32 to 36 teams now, you got to be kidding me.

That’s all 6 English teams now pulled out. It’s dead.

@thefourfoldroot I mean all clubs want money but that also means that restricts the fact only 20 teams will receive any monies in the league where as all teams in the Premier league will benefit as all teams receive some form of money depending on where they finish after their 38 games, if those 6 teams were to leave it leaves the league feeling undervalued and why should teams that aren't as money orientated miss out on the European league just because of being a smaller club in Presidents Perez eyes of the super league leader. No promotion or relegation so no one else has the chance to play and win some form of money from it, alot of teams depend on the money from the big clubs also.

I personally feel teams that have years of history don't deserve it, the champions league for example is earned and you don't expect the right to be in it if you can't even get into it in the first place let alone win the cup.

It's ironic but in 1992 their were 5 big teams who wanted to breakaway from the Division 1 league which later formed the Premier league funnily enough Everton being one of them but now speaking up saying they don't want this super league to happen.

Just leave the leagues as they are and let fair play take its course.

Glad thats gone. Now, lets see if uefa, fifa, the premier league, boris johnson, the entire uk government and opposition act the same way when a player is racially abused. I mean, we now know they can ban players from tournaments with very little notice, so....

@Weebleman True. I might be a Celtic fan but even I was rooting for Rangers against Slavia Prague after the horrific racist abuse.

@Weebleman I sure hope the Glazers decide to sell, figures though 2 or 3 billion they are saying.

@hoffa007
But the league is staying as it is if this happens. No clubs are leaving the premiership, the champions league and europa league are still going. Clubs will still earn their place in them...literally the only difference should be these clubs are exempt from those European competitions as they have their own, giving smaller clubs the chance to play in Europe.

Shame it won’t be happening. The corrupt monopolies of British and European/world football have maintained their power and money.

@ShogunRok Its already a mess smaller clubs train them and a big club poaches them for free or next to nothing. There is to much money in soccer /football its not sustainable.

@hoffa007 If you cant keep it up with the biggest soccer franchise the Premier League then it might be worth thinking that its just not sustainable in this form. Clubs with 70 players with massive salaris. Contracts with 1,2 million a month players going for 100 million plus to a new club. Barcelona with a debt of 500 million and they still buy players for 100 million plus.

@rpg2000 You believe the new League is something then i can tell you there is no difference between FIFA/UEFA or the next one. The Super League is that much of something anyway you cant even get demoted. 🤪

@thefourfoldroot They almost cant even get through the Premier League with all their matches how with you that with even more matches?

@Flaming_Kaiser
There wouldn’t necessarily have been. Presuming a club would progress in Europe they’d just be switching these games for those. True it’s likely some more games would be played but. Oh a huge amount, and the additional money would have paid for a square with better strength in depth...moot now, but I’m disappointed personally. After learning about it, I saw zero downside.

One of the worst cases of pure institutional greed I've ever witnessed. I hope Perez gets the firing squad for this.

@Deanster101
Are you talking about FIFA/FA/UEFA here? Those corrupt monopolistic organisations who want complete control over what clubs hundreds of years old can and cannot do?

Or just some clubs that wanted to set up their own invitational tournament whilst giving back more than the aforementioned do to grassroots football?

There are no “good guys” here, but history has shown me that organisations that seek monopolistic positions and control over all money are not to be supported, especially those with histories of massive corruption.

@thefourfoldroot I think the point is, every game WOULDN'T have been important in such a league. Because it's closed. You can't get relegated. So once someone has won the league, the rest of the games in the season just become meaningless. Almost exibition matches in effect. No one wants that. People love football because it offers you hope and dreams. It makes you happy when you win and sad when you lose. Even more so if you are near the top or bottom of the league, or get knocked out of a cup or win a final.

@thefourfoldroot the FA and government came out and said they would kick out any teams from the doemstic league who are taking part in the ESL. That's why fans are annoyed. These are clubs that have been in their communities for well over a hundred years. People LIKE to watch their Liverpool team play Southampton, or Leeds. If that was all taken away just to please some billionaires and 'fans' in other countries who have no ties to these clubs other than social media and playing FIFA, then football is dead. Their team as they know it is dead. Hundreds of years of history, dead.

And even if they were allowed to stay in the Premier League, the revenue they would have got from the ESL means the other teams would have had even less chance to compete than they do now.

So, yes, it's brilliant news it's collapsed. BUT football is in a helluva state anyway and needs urgent reform from the ground up. Like in Germany, all clubs should be 51% or more owned/governed by their fans, thus preventing foreign billionaires with no interest in fans or history, to make decisions like this.

@tomassi
As someone who just loves football but doesn’t really have a “team” as such, I just don’t have that experience. I love watching all games, especially games with the best players, whether a game is first round, second round, a third place play off or a mid table battle doesn’t matter to me. I mean, by your logic, near the end of the premiership season, all mid table games are meaningless. But I’m sure supporters of those clubs would disagree and still love to watch their clubs play. For many clubs, they have no danger of relegation and no real hope of winning a league, but their fans still love to watch.

@tomassi
They had no intention of leaving there leagues, that’s a ludicrous suggestion. Now, if the FA said they would kick said clubs out the league for daring to play in a competition the FA monopoly themselves wouldn’t profit from, then the fans were directing their anger in the wrong direction and it should have been towards the FA and UEFA (who said they would ban employees from being able to work internationally)

Despite the disappointment of us joining the ESL in the first place, I am beyond relieved and proud of Roman for deciding to go against this unethical sport (to be fair we were given mere hours to make a decision to join this with no consultation and did it out of fear of being left behind.), by being the first to pull out he started the domino effect which has helped save Football as we know it.

THE BEST OWNER IN FOOTBALL

@thefourfoldroot you don't support a team, so you're argument is fairly invalid to be honest. You are part of the problem that these billionaires are trying to aim at. The desire for people with no vested interest in the history or community of a team, to just watch Mbappe and Neymar because they're the only players they know.

I mean, why would some 'fan' from Africa or Asia care about Wrexham beating Arsenal in the FA Cup in 1992, or Leicester (who the hell are THEY?!?!?!!?!) winning the league in 2016, or small clubs like Atalanta qualifying and getting to QF of Champions League. Honestly, it's embarrassing. The default setting for any of these people is "I know Messi, Ronaldo (sorry, R9), Mbappe and Neymar. Do I need to know anyone else"?? I've no problem with this product being global but don't try and ruin it for everyone else. Don't try and wash away hundreds of years of history and community because team A doesn't have Messi in their lineup, therefore you can't be bothered to watch them.

The point about mid-table Premier League games being meaningless also doesn't carry weight BECAUSE of the history of the teams competing. There are rivalries, local derbies etc. What history does Spurs v Atletico Madrid have at the end of another boring repetitive ESL season, when Spurs have lost all their games AGAIN because they are worse than all the others. Nothing. It means nothing. There is no history there. There's probably no fans there either. Because, apart from you it seems, no one wanted it in the first place.

And, yes the teams had no intention of leaving their leagues, of course they didn't. They wanted their cake and they wanted to eat it. They would rightly have been kicked out anyway though. The Champions League has ruined football enough as it is, let alone this new league if it happened.

I'm old enough to remember when there was a European Cup (for, y'know, the clubs who actually win their leagues, not finish 4th), the UEFA Cup (for the runners up) and the Cup Winners Cup (doesn't need explanation)! It was perfect. Then the CL came along and we have huge disparities at the top of the game. Clubs who were giants of world football are barely heard of anymore. I could pretty much dictate to you the QF lineups of most CL seasons, in advance (Real, PSG, Bayern, Barca, Liverpool, City etc). It's boring enough as it is, we don't need to make it more boring.

@DonJorginho haha, give me a break. 3 days ago he was about to sell your club down the river. Then because everyone goes mad about it he has to change his mind. Now he's a hero?!

People like Abramovich are why football is in such a state in the first place.

@tomassi
“ Don't try and wash away hundreds of years of history and community because team A doesn't have Messi in their lineup”

Adding what would become historic leagues and matches in no way invalidates any other competition. The idea is simply another invitational tournament. What is wrong with that for those who don’t profit from the current status quo?

“ There are rivalries, local derbies etc. What history does Spurs v Atletico Madrid have at the end of another boring repetitive ESL season”

New international rivalries would emerge and history be created.

“ It's boring enough as it is, we don't need to make it more boring.”

No idea how having a new competition with top teams would make things more boring. Unless you mean the income disparity would increase. But I fail to see how it could worsen the current situation where sponsorship is massively lopsided and billionaire owners are allowed to build teams with money from outside the game.
I find the FA position extremely hypocritical, when they vilify clubs for making money through matches and TV rights, but allow rich men to treat clubs as their personal toys.

“ you don't support a team, so you're argument is fairly invalid to be honest”

That’s rather insulting. I love football and watch far more than some of my peers who only ever watch their own team play (some dont even watch unless they win). I’m a true fan of the game, rather than a tribal follower, which is perhaps why I’m able to be more objective in this matter.

@tomassi Do your research buddy, it is wrong that we signed up but we were pressured to out of fear of being left behind as we literally had mere hours to either sign on with the Elite or be left behind with imminent revenue losses, I get why they did it despite not being happy with it.

Roman is one of the greatest owners for his passion for the game, yes he bought his success but what clubs don't these days? He has a passion for the game which you can see in how he runs the club, he isn't a hero for this, not at all, but he was the driving force behind the other clubs withdrawing, so I will commend him for that.

I wonder what team you support? Probably I can guess which would lead to such a butthurt response.

@thefourfoldroot If you are the big one that are complaining about money you probably will and lets be honest here the Champions League is mostly England and Spain.

If you cant keep up the insane money then the industry needs to think if they want to keep going this way.

Its just a toy for the rich now anyway. The new League is stupid its nothing more then a add campaing it holds no value because its only for a select few without the chance demotion.

For this League would show the true colors of clubs they dont care about fans its only about the money. The only see the fans as a walking wallet if you greenlight this.

The dude from Madrid even said people dont want to see smaller clubs so thats one reason to tell him to go #### himself.

@Col_McCafferty It's nowt to do with the history of a club cos if it was, Villa and Forest would've been invited as they've won The European cup more times than Spurs or The Arse combined.
Still, it's all academic now.
Good.

@DonJorginho oh diddums, you were pressured to sign up because everyone else was. Who told you that? Roman?! What a load of rubbish. They're just trying to save face. Abramovich was one of the first billionaire owners to come into the EPL, which prompted loads of others because everyone had to try and compete with what he was spending at the time. So, yeah, he IS one of the main reasons the top division is in this mess. Clubs need, like Germany, to be owned majority by the fans, 51% or more. End of story. These clubs mean more to generations of fans in communities than they ever will to billionaire owners and that includes Abramovich I'm afraid.

Oh, and I support Southampton.

@thefourfoldroot The current setup is not perfect by any stretch but are you telling me that a system which doesn’t allow relegation for its “founding members”, is self-regulated by the clubs themselves, setup so they take all the spoils and also does not allow money to filter down to the smaller clubs in their respective leagues is more of the same? I don’t think so mate. You believe what you want

@tomassi I completely get where you're coming from, I want the 50+1 rule, I want tougher restrictions on ownership laws here, all I'm saying is football would have went this way with or without Roman as someone else would have tried what he did and succeeded like he did. I just feel protective as a Chelsea fan is all mate!

And great club! Really sad that you lot couldn't carry on the great form for the first half of the season, Ralph is a top top manager.

@thefourfoldroot but it's not an 'invitational' tournament. It's a tournament set up by 12 teams that they can compete in amongst themselves. Sure they may invite some special guests every season (a whole five teams across the WHOLE of Europe) but it's essentially for themselves.

The history of football is woven into those local rivalries (in my case Southampton v Portsmouth) or the David v Goliath FA Cup slayings, or the drama filled Champions League evenings (Lucas Moura's hat trick against Ajax in the SF being prime drama, or Liverpool's comeback in Istanbul against AC Milan). What it isn't is a league table amongst clubs who aren't even from the same country therefore have no historic meaning to their matches.

And all of the big clubs pretty much 90% of the time end up playing in the QF of the CL anyway, so surely the idea of this league is moot? What's the point when the CL latter stages are largely predictable affairs anyway? Seriously, the only time they are interesting is when you get a Spurs, Ajax or Atalanta or someone making a surprise run. It gives you someone to root for against the perennial big boys.

And, I don't mean to insult you, but if you really love football that much you surely understand the meaning behind all this history etc that we have? And surely you can see that it MEANS something more than just binning it off so we can watch Neymar and Mbappe v Messi every other week?

@Deanster101
I think you’ve been misinformed. 400 million was allocated to filter down the leagues, which is a lot more than the current system.

I just don’t see the difference between this and something like the Emirates Cup at Arsenal, a self styled competition with invited clubs. The only difference is this is during league time rather than pre season 🤷‍♂️ Why should clubs not be able to enter such competitions if invited? Why does FIFA/FA/UEFA have a monopoly on what competitions our clubs are allowed to play in. Why should those corrupt organisations make such profit instead of clubs involved?

@tomassi
Of course, but as nothing is being “binned off” and history and rivalries between different teams constantly written, those points are moot.

And yes, the clubs invited themselves. They set up the tournament. Although I suspect there was a front company technically doing the inviting.

@thefourfoldroot the Emirates cup is just a nonsense pre-season friendly tournament. Surely you're not trying to compare the two??

@tomassi
There are many other examples, Such competitions are actually money spinners, such as when Man U organise an Asian tour and set up a tournament.

Any such self organised tournament is comparable. Can you tell me the difference between the two other than scale and timing?

@DonJorginho fair do's mate. We all love our teams. Hence why most of us are opposed to this ESL! Glad it's collapsed.

Now we need the 51% thing, and, if I had my way a return to the days of the European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup!!

Means more ways for EA to con money out of customers

@thefourfoldroot ESL is dead. ESL was created to benefit the founding members that is it.

@tomassi This is why I love Bundesliga. The clubs are owned by the fans. No rich guy owning the clubs.

@kingv84
Heaven forbid a competition benefits its participants!

I do wonder whether the same outcry would have been evident if the lower half of European leagues had set up such a spectacle in order to catch up with the financial clout the larger clubs have through sponsorship and rich owners. I suspect not.
It is, after all, just a competition like many others set up outside of season time.

Nothing really new here other than the timing.

The irony is, this competition would have filtered more money down to grassroots than the current system, and lifted 6 new English clubs up to competing in the current European competitions. Nobody lost other than the FA and UEFA, but they clearly had some very expensive PR advisors letting them know how to maintain their monopolistic power.

@kingv84 The German clubs have got this right.
Shame our ruling body hasn't followed suit.

@QueenKittenWrite.... That is precisely why everybody is up in arms.... They are trying to turn football into NBA or NFL, no competition just novelty.......
If want sports entertainment I don't watch NBA or NFL, I watch WWE.....

@thefourfoldroot lol you must be the only person in the world who wanted this crap ESL. Tough luck. Its gone.

@kingv84
I wouldn’t say want. I had no problem with the current system other than rich owners putting outside money in, and do have no problem with it staying as is.

I just don’t see the problem with keeping everything identical, but just adding a new competition to watch what would be some undoubtedly great games 🤷‍♂️

The negative reaction was irrational, not properly thought out, and served the interests only of an organisation I do not respect or wish to support.

Bet there are a fair few West Ham, Everton supporters etc, who now regret that they won’t be in champions league competition next season.

@thefourfoldroot....... Please stop talking about football/soccer as clearly it is not your sport and you are not a fan...... Everybody has explained the situation to you yet you keep on moving the goal post.

No soccer fan takes any competition seriously which their supported team does not work hard for or gets invited........ Those are friendlies and not competitions.......

There is a reason why nations have to qualify for a world cup and not participate on invitation.

So just rather talk about games as clearly soccer is not your passion and following.

This is bad for soccer not matter how you or anyone spins it.

@GREGORIAN
Well, aren’t you a rude boy / girl!?
I’ll leave you be as clearly you are passionate, which does tend to block reason somewhat. Not that I’m criticising anyone being passionate about their sport and team, but it is what it is.
Let’s not allow clubs to enter competitions that the FA and UEFA don’t have their grubby little hands in!

@thefourfoldroot...... You sound like you have financial interest at JP Morgan hence why you are sad this did not go through.

The only way that this can be viewed as even slighty okay is if you have financial interest in the ESL, other than that, no other reason or excuse justifies it, even the corruption of FIFA and the different FA's around the world.

PS: You cannot watch WWE wrestling and not have a favorite wrestler and claim that you are a fan of the sport, you must have a favorite. Which is the same with soccer if you don't support a team then you not a Soccer fan but a Casual (i.e you like cause everyone likes it or you like cause it's in vogue) just like in video games. Which means you don't watch much soccer or are not a soccer fan cause you would have already come across a team that clicks with you. It's just same also in video game you play game yearly for 5 to 10 years and not come across a game you like a lot more than the others you have played cause then you are not a gamer, you adjust a causal going through fads......

@GREGORIAN
Look, I’m getting a bit bored now, so you’ll be pleased to know I’m leaving this topic soon given the subject is moot anyway. But..

To say you need to support a team to love football as a sport is ridiculous. It’s like saying I can’t enjoy tennis without having a favourite player, or formula 1 without a favourite driver (and I did watch wrestling as a kid without a favourite, but it was a little bit less of a soap opera back then)..I know there is a large tribal element to sports, but there is also just an appreciate and love for the game of football. I watch pretty much every game I get the chance to, irrespective of whether that game “matters” or includes particular teams or players.

And I don’t see how liking the idea of a competition of some of the worlds best teams, that rarely get to play each other otherwise, means I own shares in JP Morgan. You are just moving into the realm of the ridiculous there.

I get that you want to ban clubs from playing each other unless the FA or UEFA are in control. That doesn’t mean I am going to accuse you of having some type of connection with them or that you financially gain from their monopolies.

@thefourfoldroot yeah only teams would earn their places to champions league and europa in the first 7 places of the premiership but not the super league even though that isn't going ahead anymore. Shocking really teams that actually won the european cup in the past we're not even invited to join.

I seen a comment someone made on Twitter recently saying Daniel Levy had convinced people Tottenham we're an elite club, its just silly really the choices that we're made to leave out teams that deserve to be in it anyway.

I am surprised though you would want it to happen, eventually it would just become boring watching the same teams week in, week out compared to maybe once in so many years that Liverpool will play Real Madrid for example and its not all the time as for how the Champions League works.

It's a good thing it is happening as its not about the money its about the fans if it wasn't for the fans those teams would be pointless really, then fans will just go watch someone else play.

Liverpool just lost a sponsor due to the plans of joining just imagine what everyone loses if they join it won't only be just fans or sponsors it will be players to and then end up being a crap league with no one to play for them because they would have lost the respect of most people and end up either going into liquidation or further debt over so long its not worth it that is why the form of the leagues is better where it stands.

@hoffa007
I really don’t understand what you think the fans or clubs would lose by having another competition, completely seperate from those running currently, which would keep running, but fine, I’m resigned to the fact we’ll never understand each other.
And yes, the choice of teams was a bit strange, but I’m sure Spurs wouldn’t have been there if PSG or BM wanted to join.

@Flaming_Kaiser winning the premier league is a big amount of money with the same as the Champions league its a no brainer sticking to those terms its more about the fact if they join this super league then they will sell rights to China for games to watch just think charge $1 a game for example 150 million people subscribe that's $150 million for each club extra that's all they care about its not about the fans or the football which is what the football is exactly about the managers, players and fans, the owners just own the club they do nothing apart from sit in a board room where it doesn't get you the results its everyone else like I say the managers, players and the fans taking part its just money driven what will you do when your club has no more fans or the players want to leave then what will the club be able to play with if everyone goes then what happens to that league all the clubs will disappear eventually.

Well Barcelona's debt is over 1 Billion as it stands, as money and costs of players these days you have to spend over 100 Million to get a top class player but remember you will make that money back in shirt sales and revenue and turnover in profit by gate receipts or other forms of income which also helps balance.

Teams can spend 200 or 300 million in a transfer window and still make profits in the millions to come by the end of the season. Messi for Barcelona is on a 500k a week contract which is I agree to much money in football as it is ridiculous now anyway but then again in America they pay big money in American Football and other sports.

Man Utd for example are around 400 million in debt still with their owners but that money is still coming down because the profit they make from sponsors and everything else they have a massive contract with Adidas biggest in the Premier League for a shirt sponsor which will also help to bring funds in.

if it was fairer on the smaller teams then it would make sense to form a super league but when it doesn't involve many people or teams at all then their is no advantage whatsoever so it becomes unrealistic and just a pipe dream. When I was growing up I always would love to see a league with just the best teams playing to win but that's just being a kid and having fun.

@thefourfoldroot because the respect of the people including sponsors, fans, players and even managers, who will want to sponsor your team if everyone would boycott wanting to sell a shirt if everyone isn't going to buy it or no fans to even purchase that shirt they would lose even more money and dont forget the backlash of the length people go to, when not wanting to buy a brand for a certain reason and not only that they have said they will ban English players playing for England so then the players will leave their parent club to be able to play for their country again in a club outside of the super league and then who will want to join a super league if it just restricts them from any other competition, its just not viable its a much bigger picture than just playing in an additional league and also the games are packed as they are I don't know how you expect to play Champions League or Europa games in the week if they have a super league as well? Also they do league games in the week if their was a problem they couldn't play a match earlier in the season due to some formality it is just to crowded its not that simple.

it not that I don't understand you it is knowing that there is a bigger picture than just playing an extra league its about everything else included and how its it is also disrespectful to clubs that would want to play in it but cannot due to their rules to be able to join, its all big teams because that is where the money is not the smaller teams sad to say it but its true you don't see the likes of Southampton or West Ham for example being in it do you its just about money.

You earn the right to play in the Champions League so what what about Leicester who won the league recently is it just because they don't have money they don't deserve to be in it, it just isn't right at all, these big teams have history but so do some of the other clubs and clubs that could make history or being thrown into darkness just because they are not some fancy big club even though some smaller clubs have a better fanbase than the bigger clubs too with the passion and loyalty those are the ones who make football not the money or the owners.

@hoffa007
You can’t say the reason for not having it is because a club loses respect of the fans without justifying why it is disrespectful/ disrespectable to be in it. That’s a circular argument. If there is no problem then there is no loss of respect so that is no problem.

And, obviously, these clubs would not play in this European competition AND the champions league/Europa. They choose this over those other competitions (which means teams that wouldn’t ordinarily get to compete in Europe now would)

And other clubs can join, it’s about money, become a big successful club in your own league and you’d be invited because you’d bring in the tv views. But, even if they didn’t, there would still be the champions league, Europa league and premier league exactly as now. They would literally lose nothing, but gain more cash from the top and have a better chance to play in Europe.

It’s not relevant now though. The monopolies kept their power and online rabble shots themselves in the foot lol.

@hoffa007 Then do that and be done with it i dont care about soccer how it is anyway. It has nothing to do with being the best its all about the biggest pockets.

@thefourfoldroot you’re clearly a troll and an idiot so I’ll leave you to argue with yourself 😂

@Deanster101
Resorting to insults when reasoned arguments fail you, lol. I guess we should add football to topics that shouldn’t be debated here, along with religion and politics. Bye.

@thefourfoldroot well that's how it's working its way atm with the fans, if you haven't seen the protests outside or Chelsea FC, banners being displayed saying RIP Liverpool, Chelsea etc because of these decisions by the owners. Players wearing t-shirts about the fact its wrong it's a massive impact on the game. It is disrespectful in regard to the smaller clubs which I said in my previous comment because you impede a club that should have ago at going into that league but don't have the chance to.

That is for sure that the other clubs would be able to join but then the big clubs wouldn't be in it either when they wanted to be in the super league plus the Champions League/Europe as well.

Tbf I don't disagree with your views on the super league I just don't think it's viable there is only a small group of people who think it's any good where as the majority think the super league is wrong.

Either way it's brought everyone together to stand against something most people didn't want.

@hoffa007
Oh, sure, I agree with that. Mob rule.
Unfortunately the FA and UEFA plus some public figures got people riled about it before they even knew the facts. We are still seeing untruths like people saying these clubs also were going to retain their champions league places and it would result in less money to lower leagues, when the opposite is the case.