God of War Ragnarok, Gran Turismo 7 PS4 Versions Confirmed

"We believe in generations."

Ok Jimmy

Gotta wait for that slim ps5 before it's true next generation! 😱

Welp, considering I STILL csnt get a PS5 I guess I should be happy about this.

For GT7 this is no real issue, but it certainly limits what might be done in GoW. Not that I care much as I don’t like the new GoW reboot, but it is sad that games are being limited by last gen CPU and throughput and hard drive limitations.

I know this is coming from someone lucky enough to get a PS5, and so my opinion is as selfish as a PS4 owner being happy with these limitation on a cross gen game.

Not terribly surprised by this. Last gen took two years to get going and as games take longer to make, it's inevitable the crossover period will be longer this time. Big games take 4-5 years, and anything coming out before the end of next year probably started life on PS4 dev kits.

You will kill my excitement for the new God of War if it's on PS4. It's a game that could easily benefit from the PS5 in it's basic game design. If you don't want to do that over a year after the PS5 is out, I'm not getting it, and certainly not for $70. I did not buy a PS5 so they could toss out another GoW: Ascension type game that lacks real ambition drive the series forward.

Great for those still struggling to get one, I'm sure people are already griping about it but Idon't think this is a bad thing at all!

@Peach64 After they finished the first GoW there is no reason they should not have targeted the PS5 from the start. They work at Sony and well enough can make that the target. Just like Sucker Punch made PS4 the target for PS4 after finishing inFamous 2 on PS3, and they didn't have a PS5 devkit.

Makes sense, I'm aware my PS4 version wont run the best, but when I get hopefully a PS5 (which I can't for the moment) I can play the better version.

@redd214 How long do you want to wait for a more ambitious God of War game that have overhauled game design that's more creative and free with the PS5's power? Do you want to wait another 2-3 years after the this one comes out? A year or two after you've gotten a PS5. Even if I didn't have one I'd rather wait until I have a PS5 and play the better game.

Urgh. I get it, but I also was kinda hoping they would be proper next-gen experiences.

Pandemic's messed up a whole lot. Hard to come "buy" PS5s. They just can't abandon the 110M PS4s. GOW is amazingly beautiful but if HFW with its equal beauty and OPENWORLDness is coming to PS4, widelinear GOW should be able.

@Jaz007 I'm sure the game will be spectacular just as GOW PS4 was, hope you enjoy it whenever it releases

What PS5? I've never seen one of these mythical consoles. Ragnarok should be fine on PS4. It's not like the last gen is really all that primitive by comparison. There's still plenty life left in that thing. Heck I still rock my PS3. Wake me up when next gen actually starts. When everyone can buy a PS5.

With the slow sales of PS5 I’d think this would be a no brainer. Imagine releasing such a huge game to a console with around 20 million (future projection) sold. Many of those scalpers with consoles on eBay. Not saying I like it. Just saying it’s a business and they’re probably thinking like businesspeople.

PS: As a PS5 owner... 🤷🏾‍♂️

Never much of a fan of GoW anyhow so looking forward to whatever new IP or unannounced sequel is coming up specifically for PS5!

As others have said, the scarcity of PS5's or at least increased challenge of obtaining one means that as quick as the PS5 sells, they'd always have sold even more if it wasn't for the scalping, parts shortages.
Will be interesting to know if they were always intended for PS4 a la Miles Morales, or whether this is a mid development decision due to the PS5 situation.

Uh oh. grabs popcorn

When GREED trumps INNOVATION

Never thought I’d regret buying a next gen console day 1 instead of day 1,000

This is my last time visiting Push for a while, guess my “fanboy” comments and sense of humor are better served elsewhere, gonna miss you lads! not really

Let's not forget: "PlayStation will remain the best place to play our PlayStation Studios titles at launch." It's over. No more exclusives. Ever.

It may be wishful thinking, but he may be alluding to the possibility of a PS4 port, that is simply downgraded. Perhaps we're still getting a fully PS5 version that utilizes the full potential of the hardware.

Last gen really is holding back this gen. Sony are asking £500 for faster load times and some shiny lighting. I was really hoping that GoW would be a turning point and actually highlight the power of PS5. Never mind.

PS5 only titles coming in 2025 (maybe)

Jim Generations Ryan

@AhmadSumadi The PS5 doesn't have slow sales. It's selling more than the PS4 did in the same time period after launch.

https://hypebeast.com/2021/5/playstation-5-sales-still-outperform-playstation-4s-despite-slowed-production

It's also the fastest selling console in US history.

https://hypebeast.com/2021/4/sony-playstation-5-new-record-for-fastest-selling-console-us-info

Yes, there are scalpers but there have been scalpers for popular products for far longer than either of us have been alive. They're bought by scalpers then sold on quickly to actual customers very quickly due to the demand. It's effectively just another step in the supply line; it's not like we buy consoles direct from the factory, they go to a store then we buy it from there. A scalper is just one more step in that chain.

I'm glad to see so much cross-gen support despite mocking the "we believe in generations" nonsense, which never should have been said. Jack Tretton years ago talked about maybe a mobile model and ending generations, when the Pro was coming up, and that along with the X1X vs X1 made me start thinking that was the way of the future with x86 consoles. I liked that idea generally. You could get more out of your hardware if you're budget conscious, or get more out of your games if you'd rather have the latest and greatest. I was disappointed by the new gen shifting back to the same old VCR generations instead of that idea.

But... I also have to wonder if the gen 9 consoles because of how they launched will end up an interim console between the "real" generations of 8 and 10, and end up never really becoming its own generation at all. Many of the big games end up cross gen and supported on the ever dominant PS4 (and by extension X1), and with hardware scarcity, by the time we actually settle into the generation it'll be half over, a mid-gen bump won't make much sense with a lot of customers only recently getting the machines, and eyes will start shifting into the next gen. This whole generation (for everyone) might become the next WiiU, all the way around.

called it the moment we learned about horizon. this should not surprise anyone other than the most blind fanboys. this generation is off to a rocky start to say the least in terms of supply constraints and lack of software taking full advantage of the ps5 hardware. there are a few exceptions as we know, but horizon and god of war are tentpole releases that will be held back by ps4 design mentality. that said, it is great for me since i had no intendion on getting a ps5 for at least 2 years. this affords me another 24 months of bliss.

There's no reason to think a game like GoW is being "held back" by also having a PS4 version. Like Horizon, it's probably a PS4 project that has been reworked to take advantage of some of the extra features offered by the newer hardware.

Hell, even if it was a PS5 game to start with, without SSD shenanigans, there's no reason to think it couldn't be downgraded to run on the older hardware.

PC games target different quality presets so that they're able to run on a variety of hardware. Why can't the same be true for Playstation games?

@Porkman85 well we do get returnal, demons' souls and ratchet and clank. there are SOME ps5 only games taking full advantage of the hardware, but you are right, it will be 2 years before sony let's go of the ps4 which is a blessing and curse at the same time. jim ryan is a liar plain and simple!

It doesn't really bother me. And considering Spider-man Miles Morales is still selling so well, it doesn't bother anyone else either.

@NEStalgia The WiiU's problem was an almost total lack of interest. The PS5 has already outsold its total lifetime sales in Europe, which really highlights the unpopularity of the WiiU. The Switch's library is largely made up of WiiU ports, even major titles like BotW, yet that's actually doing really well. So far the PS5 has more in common with the Switch's situation (lots of previous gen games) than the WiiU's (no one wants one) and that worked out well for the Switch.

@Porkman85 PS5 only? Nah mate Sony don't believe in exclusives anymore. Everything will eventually come to PC some day.

"We Believe in Generations"

it's clear Jim Ryan was just lying and trying to score points against Microsoft at a time when they said they were still supporting the Xbox One.

I'm glad they are still supporting the PS4 as I'll continue to keep playing that for quite some time now

@__jamiie Do not forget the haptic feedback.....anyway back to my PS3 .

Not even surprised, he refused to commit to either way on whether it was going to be PS5 only or not. I knew then that this was going to happen. That's the way Jim works. Anyway I didn't expect the game this year anyway so i'm not disappointed with that.

@Matroska I don't mean in a sense of being a commercial failure, obviously, but in terms of becoming a short-lived stop-gap product. Not just PS5, but PS5 & XSeries together. It just seems like we're on a track due to the supply issues, delays, etc, that it'll be until mid-gen before we actually move on from the prior gen, and without as much reason to keep it going with mid-gen consoles, the industry might just cut its losses and start moving toward the next generation sooner, leaving this gen kind of an awkward, hanging misstep, not necessarily of their own fault. I really lump Switch in with that risk of PS5/XSXS - a weird bridge generation that never becomes a true generation. WiiU because it failed, Switch because it's a bridge between WiiU and what comes after, and PS5/XSXS because it got trapped in a half-launch by pure fate.

I guess we need to wait till around 2027 to get an actual next gen GOW game which is really disappointing.

"We believe in generations"

I love that quote, Is one of my favorites of all time. I'm thinking of getting it tattooed above my butt, are those still a thing? 🙂

Be funny If true when GT7 had PS5 Exclusive slapped all over it's trailer...

@Ralizah The benefit is that they can design the games with an SSD in mind, instead of having also to develop for HDDs. Not only load times, but the entire level design is affected by it.

When Horizon came out on the PS4, there were also a bunch of things they wanted to implement, like riding flying creatures, but couldn't because the PS4 couldn't handle it.

It really depends on the game I guess, but at least they're not doing it for every game, like R&C, which straight up wouldn't be possible on the 4.

It’s funny Microsoft got demolished by fanboys and the media for announcing cross generation games but now since Sony is doing it no one bats a eye and everyone is happy for it. Typical hypocrites when it involves Sony. The goal posts moves yet again for Sony when they do the same thing that Microsoft gets hammered for doing! Amazing

On the bright side it almost certainly means that we'll get at least two GOW and Horizon Game on the PS5 (and retroactively in the ps4 !). Yes a ''proper'' Next gen GOW won't come until further down the line but making it a PS5 exclusive would have certainly delayes that release to 2022 or even 2024. So now you're 3 years into the cycle of the new console, you spend 4 years making another one and you either release it at the end of the generation or you hold back, wait for new hardware and release it two years inti the new cycle, etc, etc...
Instead of getting rushed tech demos (heavenly sword, lair, knack, killzone 4) we're getting great games that have had the time to mature and in turn run incredibly well on the new hardware setting the bar higher than ever for the rest of the generation, that's great !

@Malmall20 look around, there's a lot of people that aren't exactly fond of the idea on this comment section alone. It's as if the people attacking Microsofr about it might not be the one praising it when Sony does it...

Gotta be honest I'm not overly happy if this turns out to be true. I bought my ps5 mainly for Gran Turismo 7 (despite knowing the game would be delayed because GT games always are)

It's great that it's backwards compatible but I didn't buy it to play PS4 games

Are there any other ps5 owners that are feeling like they've been mugged off by Sony's marketing? I don't mind cross gen games as they (should) keep the prices down, but all of the talk of "belief in generations" is looking less and less sincere. Let's hope Sony reveal some ps5 only games in june as its looking pretty slim on the exclusive front after R&C.

As a PC gamer along with console gaming, cross gen doesn't bother me as PC games have never been held back.
What does bother me is when Jim Ryan lies about next gen games.
Yes, we've had Demon's Souls, Returnal and soon R&C: Rift Apart, but all the big system selling IPs like Spiderman, God of War, GT7, Horizon FW etc are all cross gen.
Why not just be honest from the get go unless these have been last minute decisions due to the pandemic limiting PS5 supply?

You guys miss Shawn Layden yet?

God of of war best game ever made and series.no problem of it going to ps4 also word up son

How nice of Sony to inform us some 7 months after launch that all of their upcoming first party titles that they used to showcase the power of PS5 are now cross-gen. It's not like people were deceived into thinking owning a PS5 was the only way to play them or anything... /s

Also, nice of Hulst "to emphasise that PlayStation will remain the best place to play our PlayStation Studios titles at launch". So PlayStation consoles are pretty much early access machines now where we have the privilege of paying £70 for games; he didn't even confirm that some games will remain exclusive anymore, just that they'll "look at the right times to launch each game" on PC and reiterated the 2 year gap between Days Gone PS4 to PC like it's some kind of hardship to strive off 2 years to receive a far superior version.

I've never seen the desirability of a console fall so quickly. They had everything going for them going into this gen and they've thrown it all away to chase other markets and continue exploiting their die hard fanbase for greater profit. I have completely lost interest in PS5 now, which saddens me because I loved all previous PS consoles and had been an ardent supporter since 1996 but it's no longer rational to buy a PS5 knowing its games aren't going to remain exclusive or even the best way to play and will miss out on whatever other studios Microsoft chooses to acquire.

@Ralizah Did you watch Mark Cernie’s tech presentation? Basic level design and layout is driven on a fundamental level by the constraints the PS4 has. All the rubble you pass through and elevators you use are a basic representation, but from from the only design choice dictated by it.

@Malmall20 Please read the other comments first and then write your comment.

It blows my mind how that Jim Ryan quote is still being misquoted and misinterpreted. We seem to live in an age now where people take the words of another and create their own narratives as to what they mean, and worse, lose their minds and have a meltdown when that interpretation doesn't come to fruition.

Here is Jim Ryan's speech from the Sony games presentation event - "We hope you've enjoyed our first glimpse of our future today. You've seen our most striking console design yet, and you've seen games that can only be enjoyed with the full range of playstation five's features and power. At PlayStation we believe in generational transitions, and we've put years of work in to making them happen. We want you to enjoy the unique benefits of moving from one generation to the next. Thank you for joining us, we're launching later this year and we have tons more to share. Welcome to PlayStation 5."

Does anyone here want to explain what he lied about, or are you too dense to understand the simplicity of what he was talking about?

At no point did he mention abandoning a console with a 100 million plus user base. He mentioned games that can only be enjoyed on the PS5, which were the remastered version of Demon Souls, Returnal and Ratchet and Clank, which were all showcased at the event. He said "we believe in generational transitions", and that he wants us to enjoy the unique benefits of moving to the PS5. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't remember my games loading in a couple of seconds on the PS4, I don't remember my dualshock having haptic feedback, or any of the games I played sounding as phenomenal as Returnal did when I was playing it.

So I'll ask again, does anyone here want to explain to me what he lied about?

Can’t really say I care 🤷‍♂️

@Loftimus TBH with a huge backlog, I bought my PS5 largely as a PS4 Pro Plus, and it was clear "generations" weren't a thing within about a week of Jim "Matrick" Ryan saying that infamous line. I'm actually glad about that. I was happy to see MS supporting cross-gen, expected the same from Sony, was annoyed when Jim pompously shot that down, was more annoyed when MS revised their cross-gen plans as a result of it, and then gobsmacked when PS finally revealed they planned to do what MS planned to do all along, lied about it, and as a result, MS abandoned those plans. I like the direction Sony's taking, it's the one I wanted them to take. But I don't like that they bald-faced lied about it a year ago to con people into leaping into hardware they might not have wanted yet if they knew the plan (and nobody benefited from it anyway, all it did was create artificial demand for a product that can't be produced fast enough.)

I like the idea of making console a little more PC-like - buy the better hardware if you want better performance, or play on older hardware with reduced everything if that's what you can budget for. I'd said on the NL Xbox thread that "forward compatibility" of X1X would make me MORE likely to buy an XSX despite owning an X1X, because I like to know I'm buying into good future value when I buy in. I always like to think ahead "what if I can't afford the upgrade when next gen comes around" and invest wisely now while I can.

BUT I think a lot of people did get suckered in by marketing something that was never intended to be with PS5. I don't feel slighted by my 5 because I got exactly what I expected to get, but I do feel bad for people that expected something different. Though, honestly, I did expect better improvement on the BC front, so it's not the best BC box around, either. but I'm still glad to be getting Intergrade, etc.

@truerbluer said it well above. They spent last Summer highlighting all the reasons to buy a PS5, and then almost a year later tell us "guess what, you can do all this on your PS4 with less shiny graphics, too." Some of us assumed that from the get go, but it really doesn't sit well, even as someone that expected this. They talked a lot about all the design that wasn't possible on PS4 only to then say that they're still going to limit the PS5 to that standard for the foreseeable future. As both a PS and XB fan, it's annoying that so many complained about MS having only old games and no next gen games for years, when both companies are really in the same place.

I seem to be in the minority here but I’m not really bothered, I believe games should be accessible to as wide an audience as possible so if more people have the opportunity to play these titles next year then that’s good IMO. Just because they aren't designed 100% with PS5 in mind doesn’t mean it’ll be worse.

I do agree Sony could’ve done a better job with their marketing/messaging up to now, but I’ve been satisfied with my PS5 so far and the QoL things it brings like faster loading, quieter fans, new UI and can see the potential for the future with games like Astros, Demons Souls & Returnal. With the current supply shortage i’m actually glad my PS4 friends have access to titles like Miles Morales and it’s easy to still voice chat & share play with them

@truerbluer Took the words right out of my mouth.

Also...
"But we do value PC gamers, and we’ll continue to look at the right times to launch each game."

Effing wow. Cannot let that one go without comment. First off, why the actual hell do you "value" PC gamers? The ones who are distinctly not part of the PlayStation ecosystem? And why do you value them so much that you're willing to give your actual customers that shaft by saddling them with the inferior versions of your games? That you're willing to mislead them with branding of "PlayStation Exclusive" which you know won't be true in the future? Explain to me why PC gamers deserve ANYTHING from you. And if I recall correctly, the last time Hulst spoke to the press about PS4 games going to PC, he said it was all about showing PC gamers what they're missing out on. Apparently, they're not going to be missing out on anything, then, are they? If they had no reason to buy a PlayStation before, then they'll still have no reason to buy one.

Also, "each" game? As in, each game that you decide to port over, or literally each game that comes from PlayStation Studios so it won't have ANY permanent exclusives from here on out? Because if you're outright admitting here that the latter is what's going to happen, THEN YOU NEED TO ADMIT THAT STRAIGHT UP. STOP MISLEADING US. STOP LYING TO US. STOP USING "PLAYSTATION EXCLUSIVE." STOP USING "ONLY ON PLAYSTATION."

@truerbluer i'll drink to that!

This sucks. It absolutely will hold God of War back, even if it's as simple as 'Can we put 12 enemies in this arena? No the PS4 CPU can't handle it, let's do 10'

And it's not because people can't buy a PS5. The PS5 has sold more than any Sony console. More people have a PS5 than any past launch console of theirs and it never stopped them before.

Sony seem to be transitioning into not selling their consoles based on exclusives, and that's going to backfire for them. Especially as Microsoft are going to have a deluge of exclusives in a couple of years

@Craigthulu "So he didn't outright say they would only support PS5, but that's really the impression most people were under and no one really took the time to say otherwise."

And here in lies the problem. He never said it, people assumed, and now they're angry their assumptions were wrong. More importantly, in the quote you posted he says a next gen console should include features and benefits that the previous one doesn't, which it does, and that developers should make games that make the most of that, which they have.

We're 7 months in to a new console release that due to unforseen circumstances is extremely difficult to purchase. If everything they released was PS5 exclusive there would be no end to the tears from the PS4 player base. This site would be filled with people crying about how they've been abandoned, about how they can't buy a PS5, about how their support for the PS4 means nothing and f**k Sony. You can't win these days no matter what you do.

@Intr1n5ic It's actually this interview that people are quoting. Not the PS5 unveiling.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2020-05-29-sonys-jim-ryan-its-time-to-give-fans-something-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

@Octane @The_New_Butler @Jaz007 I'm not saying it's possible for any PS5 game to run on PS4. What I am saying, and this lines up with the wording of Hulst's statement, is that it was likely very much possible for games like Horizon II and GoW Ragnarok to run on both platforms without their design being compromised at all.

Does that mean every possible next-gen game could run on older platforms without design compromises? Obviously not. But it's equally silly to suppose that literally every possible next-gen exclusive will be designed in such a way that it can't be made to work on older hardware without compromising the design of the game overall.

@redd214 By that logic you'd be happy for GoW to be available on GamePass and Switch online???

PS5 owners want games that push the console and show what the system can do. Not be hampered by the limitations of having design choices influenced by ageing PS4 hardware.

Is it really such a big deal? I dunno, it is a little disappointing, but a game like GT7 is pretty easy to downgrade by reducing the quality and frame rate. Heck, pretty much any game can so long as the core gameplay doesn't completely rely on the new hardware.

This will probably keep the prices of new releases down too, which is only a good thing in my eyes. I've really enjoyed my time with the PS5 so far and that's all that matters at the end of the day really.

@Craigthulu His response when asked about the 100 million plus PS4 install base is pretty clear to me - "We have always felt that we had a responsibility to serve that [PS4] community for several years after the launch of PS5 and that it represented a huge business opportunity for us," Ryan says.

@__jamiie Yes I would! I also hope it comes to Android and iOS, billions of players!!!

The fact that people get so worked up about video games will never cease to be hilarious to me.

@__jamiie I see that now, and having just read the full article I'm even more confused by people's misunderstanding of what he's talking about. He literally hasn't lied about a single thing, he's completely transparent about the direction the company is going in and their intentions for the first two years of the PS5. This is nothing but outrage culture at it's finest.

@Ralizah Oh yeah, like I said R&C obviously can't run, I just hope the game design won't be compromised too much.

I paid 500 for this Eye of Sauron monstrosity, I'd like to use its full potential

@redd214 I think that people do deserve to have their £500 investment justified.

By next Mar Sony may have sold close to 30M PS5, depending on supply, does that leave 80M with a PS4 - still a big market and possibly if these 3 games - Horizon, GOW and GT can be upgraded for free another reason to purchase the PS5.

Thinking of GT it is possible to have 2 versions of the same game, the PS4 version uses the existing game engine GT Sport and PS5 runs on the new engine with updated physics - cars, track details can be scaled to fit the PS4.

As for the other 2, that's going to be interesting as we've only seen horizon shown for the PS5 and that doesn't look possible on PS4 - could you have the same open world, same story but different set pieces. Flying could be excusive to PS5 and not part of a story line, just another way of travelling around the world

@__jamiie you're absolutely right they do. My $1000+ PS5 investment has been totally worth it thus far! If you don't feel the same perhaps see if ya can sell it, I hear the demand is quite high so shouldn't be a prob

@Intr1n5ic It's nothing to do with outrage culture at all. He stated that Sony would be taking a different approach to MS and clearly implied that PS5 would have all of these wonderful exclusives to show off the system. Then, 1 by 1, virtually all of the big first party exclusives become PS4 games meaning that none of them will truly take advantage of the system.

Only 3 years ago when God of War 2018 came out, we were all shouting out the top of our lungs how truly amazing the game was, only 3 years later and somehow the sequel will suddenly be mediocre because it's held back by the PS4. Good games don't require incredible top of the line hardware. For my money the Switch has better exclusives than Microsoft and it's a 10W mobile SoC !

And I might add that Playstation was very, VERY clear that they intended to support the PS4 for at least the next three years. That was in 2019.

@redd214 I don't own a PS5 because there's nothing to justify the purchase for me yet. I'll stick with my Pro until there's something truly worth buying one for.

@art_of_the_kill The writing was on the wall as soon as they dropped the "Only on PlayStation" label and the publishing arm changed name to "PlayStation Studios". That name reeks of branching out of PlayStation hardware to stamp the name across other devices and it was proven correct.

Even the DualSense can't be used as an exclusive PS5 feature anymore, the Metro devs have already implemented it on their enhanced PC version. You would think that Sony would lock that down and force devs making games on PlayStation to sign an agreement that DualSense features are exclusive to PS5, but no! All the PS5 has now is the custom SSD, which won't even be utilised for game design thanks to their cross-gen initiative and will soon be caught up and overtaken by PC SSDs by the time it does.

That just leaves a console that appeals to casuals and uninformed tech-illiterates who still think PCs are as complicated to use as they were in the 90s and 2000s and that you somehow can't use a controller or play on a TV. It's a shame that a lot of PS owners and fans don't even care about this with some even encouraging putting exclusives out of PlayStation because "it's good more people can play" or "it makes them money for more exclusives" ignoring the fact that they've opened Pandora's box and PCs will now continue getting every exclusive with significantly better visuals and performance while they remain stuck with worse versions of games like Days Gone, HZD and Death Stranding, the sales of which aid to fund the next PC ports, good job!

@__jamiie awesome, hope you enjoy Ragnarok in 2022!

@Craigthulu "So you're entitled to your interpretation, but I simply just don't see it".

Cool 👍.

Good. I look forward to both releases.

@__jamiie It has everything to do with outrage culture. If this is something that people are genuinely angry or upset about, there's a good chance they have emotional stability issues.

As for wonderful exclusives, Returnal is my current goty, Demon Souls remastered ran and played a million times better than it did on the PS3, and I'm looking forward to Ratchet and Clank arriving in 9 days. As a PS4 user you should be happy that they're still supporting you instead of looking for things to complain about.

@Intr1n5ic Yeah I agree, I do not remember the firsr year of a new console being this full of great exclusives. We got Miles Morales, Sackboy, Demon's Soul, Returnal, Ratchet & Clank, Horizon FW, Kena Bridges of Spirits, without Covid we might have got God of War and GT7 aswell ? It is insane. What did the Ps4 or Ps3 had for their first year ?
I remember the memes about ps3 and ps4 having ''no games''. Plus the backward compatibility between both consoles makes it easier than ever to develop for both, they could have just easily cut the ps4 version of those games and we would all be saying how amazing these are and how they surely could not run on the puny PS4.

I didn't mind the first few games being cross-gen but more cross-gen games in 2022 to SONY?!?!?!?!?!? :-/ Hmm disappointing news (just like PlayStation Exclusives going to PC to. I hate it) Oh well.

@Intr1n5ic Did Jim Ryan say that their biggest AAA games for the next few years will be on PS4 too? If yes, then you are right. But if no, he was not clear enough because it is not common at all for PS to have cross gen AAA games after two or three years of new generation specially a game like GOW.

@Ralizah God of Ward’s level design staples were used as examples of how level design was restricted on PS4. They didn’t say GoW, but they sure described it. I very much doubt nothing was compromised because of that.
You’re right about every game being silly, but this one in particular has every reason given by Sony, including the lead architect of the PS5’s hardware, to have it’s ambition be comprised.
Like I said, GoW was a game in particular I wanted to see shed the PS4 restrictions.

@Ah-Void Is Rachet and Clank not one of their biggest AAA's?

If you're not happy and have a PS5, sell it. Simple. Plenty of people want one. Too much drama over something so inconsequential, there's plenty else going on in the world.

I've got a PS5 and I'm happy with what's out so far. Am I stunned by what I've seen? No. Do I particularly care? No. Do I feel lied to? No. I've got a boat load of PS4 titles to catch up on that look and run better than they did on my PS4.

For those of us old enough to have had every PS from launch, this really is nothing new. There's plenty yet to come, just be patient or go do something else.

If I had a PS4 Pro that I traded in when I got the PS5 this would probably upset me. However considering I gave away my PS4 in 2016 when I built my PC I don’t have a problem with this.

God of War was obvious. I thought GT was confirmed exclusive. I'm not surprised it's coming to PS4 though. I always thought it looked like a PS4 game

@Intr1n5ic If Ratchet and Clank was cross-gen, I think people would be ok with it and even for Horizon, most people were ok with it. However, GOW is on another level and it is one of the biggest PS game series. Jim Ryan could easily say that even next projects from, for example, Santa Monica and Naughty Dog will be cross-gen and end all these discussions. But he didn't do it because he knows that this kills the hype for PS5.

Man that's disappointing, it seems "we believe in generations" talk is just marketing. And I don't understand this "there's no ps5 so it's okay for sony to make cross-gen games", when ps4 isn't widely available at launch, do people want all ps4 games to be cross-gen with ps3?

@b1ackjack That's false, ps5 is selling more than ps4 launch aligned.

The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am about the fact that Horizon, God of War and Gran Turismo 7 is now coming to PS4. I realize that opinion is much easier to have when you're a PS5 owner but at this point it seems likely we'll barely see any fully realized next-gen games before 2023 at the earliest.

Nice! Great for the Ps4 campers like myself, if true.

I would love that these mega titles like God of War, Gran Turismo, Horizon etc. to take full advantage of PS5, but PS4 players are still many, due to current situation and they cannot be left out just like this. If someone with a PS5 would have been unlucky to get the console, he will be very happy to play these games even on PS4, I am quite sure. I am trying to think objective on this, because this is the right way, everybody has the right to play those amazing games on last gen console. In 2-3 years I am totally agree to full transition on PS5. Enjoy and hope that PS5 crisis to be over soon enough.

I'm just disappointed that they're leaving the 150 million PS2 owners behind. Why leave that install base sitting there when you could make a PS2 version of the next God of War? Frankly, that's bad business!

@KippDynamite Absolutely this. I still have a ps3 in my basement, why the hell am i not getting these games as well.

People are looking at this with a Pollyanna's eyes but these news mean that we will get big playstation exclusives around 2023-2024. Why the hell we bought this machine in 2020 if we were going to play flag carriers around 2024.

Feels like a pro-pro ps4 than ps5.

Why is it difficult for people to understand that these games have been in development for 2 to 3 YEARS? Of course they were targeting the PS4 as the PS5 specs weren't even finalised by then?

What unique game do those cutting edge PCs have that is sooo above? NONE! Same goes for PS5.PS5 improvements over PS4 are already here and further advancement is actually fueled by mass which still includes PS4.

@ShogunRok It's officially on PS4 but is it officially Ragnarok? With all the talk about God of War the past 2 days surely you can link to 1 official Sony or Santa Monica comment calling it Ragnarok? 🤷

@Octane "I paid 500 for this Eye of Sauron monstrosity, I'd like to use its full potential."

Should have waited for Knack 3. 😉

Said this on another article but:

I dont care about cross-gen, but the price of the games should reflect the fact they are cross-gen releases - like RE Village, Sackboy etc.

I dont think its right to charge £70 if the game has been developed for last gen hardware, whereas i have more sympathy for stuff like Demons Souls, Ratchet and Returnal which need to take account of the fact there is a smaller install base

Will Sony drop the price for 2/3 of their biggest ip? Not going to happen is it.

@sanderson72 I think this is a silly non-point. We've already had PS5 exclusives and Ratchet is around the corner. Those games have been in development for years as well.

God job Sony believe in generations

You offer the game to 15-20 million people or over 100 million people. If it was my money I had spent on something I know I would want to offer it to as many people as possible to make as much money as possible.

@Samba3 “What unique game do those cutting edge PCs have that is sooo above? NONE!“

you actually make an excellent point here. All this talk of crossgen releases holding us back from achieving amazing never before seen gaming experiences sounds a little silly when PC is sitting over there with limitless uncapped potential and...where are these experiences?

No problem just as long they don't have the nerve to charge 70 for basically a upres PS4 game. I will say I'm way more excited for Rift Apart than Horizon II or any of the other upcoming PS4 games.

As a ps4 owner, I yell HELLS YEAH!!
And as a future ps5 owner, I yell C'MON, MAN! WTF!!
Can't please them all

Great news for me, not that great for others, but let’s be honest the jump from a PS4 to PS5 it’s not that great to begin with, and not many people has tons of money to spend during this times specially with the increased price of games, so this should be great news for a lot of people

Good news for me I don't need to fork out money for a ps5 anytime soon (:

I think it's great everyone can play these, even though I'm a "Next gen should be next gen type of guy" but Christ, I'm much happier knowing I can play this on something that isn't a jet engine. GOW was loud, imagine what this will be like...

Considering PS4 God of War on PS5 looks better then anything else on PS5 I don't see this limiting them. PS5 has faster frame rates and higher resolution but there isn't much gameplay wise it does that the PS4 can't. At least not yet Ratchet and Clank is the only upcoming game I am aware if that needs to be on PS5. Returnal and Demon Souls could have been in the PS4. Heck Demon Souls is a PS3 game.

New gen exclusive is better but people looking for drama are just silly.
Other new gen only games are coming.

people really thought sony was just gonna ditch the millions of ps4 owners out there. The thousands who cant get a ps5 because of the pandemic and shortages that everyone seems to have forgotten about. That horizon footage didnt look held back in any way to me

@Slippship Well obviously there’s a jump but it’s not like PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3 where the difference was day and night, and it’s not like PS4 just suddenly start looking bad and I can’t really say anything for the controller but that still doesn’t make the upgrade amazing

The popular Jim Ryan hatred is very bizarre. I believe it's been stirred by the press. If there is any one they should criticise its Hermen Hulst. He is the PS Studios boss.

@Jaz007 i like how you are judging a game no ones even seen yet lol

I'm honestly glad most people here are disappointed with the confirmation!

I'm guessing when they announced GT7 delay to 2022 is when decision for PS4 version made. Ready to give up on consoles and gaming entirely. Too long to make, too big - code-wise - and they are just PC's now with continual updates. And as for Polyphony Digital don't expect PS4 GT7 until mid 2022 and PS5 GT7 until late 2023 with 2 years of updates to get it to an acceptable state. Sony is running the PS5 like the webstore. Next-gen my a**. You'll all be playing remastered PS2 games sooner than you think.

@Solidocelot have you played Returnal? There is no way it could of been done on the ps4. The instant travel and particle effects as well as the smooth fps with all the action, not possible.

Lol at the meltdowns. Seriously, people. That's beyond silly.

Well that lowers my hype.

Sell to 10-15 million ps5 users
Or
Sell to 10-15 million ps5 users and over 80 million ps4 users

Makes sense to me and I'm glad even more players will get to play these amazing games

@Jaz007 then you should just skip franchises till about a decade apart then. Taking full advantage of PS5 hardware and coming up with new game designs takes YEARS. Hint, every single game released in 2021 and 2022 will have last-gen versions prototyped, and will still be just scratching the surface of what new hardware can do. Yeah, Sony leaned into the marketing of generations, but we do have exclusive stuff only a PS5. Ya'll want botw moments too early.

@RubyCarbuncle The fact that PS5 consoles are hard to find make this argument even more redundant. Not only is it self-entitled, but it doesn't actually make sense. The games and design Sony is hyping aren't here yet, period. Look at the break-through games of last-gen did they happen in 2013/2014 when PS4 released or was it tailored towards the mid/end of gen? God of War or Horizon wouldn't have been any different only on PS5 lol...you guys are crazy. And GT7 port started after PS5 version, it was just recently decided to do a port lol. I really hope one of the staff members do a soap box about this issue, because it's making the enthusiast circle (us) look extremely dimwitted and uninformed. The break-through games were never going to be ready this early.

@zimbogamer I have played it. There is no doubt that the game runs a lot better on the PS5 then it could ever run on the 4. I do think the gameplay is possible, just lower rez and longer load times.

PS4 units sold: 115 million
PS5 units sold: 7.8 million

Sony is a business. This makes business sense.

I’m glad Microsoft got it right day one, and just stated what Sony are now doing. Because it gains them trust, and loses it for Sony.

This is nice news. I don’t know when I’ll ever get a PS5 at this point with my current backlog, financial situation, and chip shortage. If I can play the new games at reasonable resolutions and frame rates on my PS4 Pro then I’ll be a happy camper. Returnal and Ratchet and Clank are the two big games that I’ll have to wait on, though.

When Microsoft mentioned that all their games would be cross-gen for the first couple of years, I scoffed. What’s the point then of buying the new system? PlayStation was offering a showcase of games that were only going to be playable on the PS5.

I’m not a fanboy of either company. I’ve gone back forth from generation to generation. This dedication to taking generational leaps in game design was the primary reason I chose the PS5 over the XBox.

I’m happy that those who haven’t been able to get their hands on the new system will still have access to these new titles. But a part of me definitely regrets putting my money down on a system under this misleading context.

Of course Sony is going to keep supporting the PS4. PS5 elitists can choose to get over it or not, but at least I’ll be able to play the new GoW if I don’t have a PS5 by then, they ain’t exactly easy to get.

@RBMango exactly what I thought too man... Jimmy needs to go.! Dude looks and sounds too Microsoft

@Sakisa by the time Ragnarok comes, which is next year, I'm sure you would have been able to secure your PS5 somewhere

@RubyCarbuncle retract a statement when all you're argument amounted to is "I'm not wrong, you are"...lol are you 12? Report my post if you're offended, there's nothing wrong with it. Good day

@RubyCarbuncle ok...I think you misinterpreted my posts though. I wasn't calling you anything, I was talking about overall (the forums/enthusiast) outrage of cross-gen games is pretty self-entitled and regardless, no amazing design choices would be ready this early so these games wouldn't even be drastically different if they were only on PS5. You brought out PS5 not being available and I was piggy-backing on it, as another reason to not care about cross gen. I wasn't referring to you at all lol...

@Shepherd_Tallon This says it perfectly. The games industry is adapting to new realities and this business model makes sense in context.

PS5 will be in the 15 million units sold through range when these release. PS4 will be in the 110+ million range.

Math.

Well no ***** they were going to be released on PS4 but the real question is the PS5 version going to suffer from that?

So last gen game engines for both, I knew when I saw the GT7 trailer that it looked like the GT sport engine with better reflections. This is disappointing GT is normally a show piece for the console when it eventually comes out each gen, this time we will look at it and be, meh.
They haven't released a full game since GT6 on PS3 and this is the best they could do?. Gt sport eventually got there with content after a couple years but it's not a full game still in my mind. The single player side was worse than asetto corsa ( a game that gets shunned for how shallow the single player experience is) .
Sony really give Yamauchi way too much freedom to do whatever he wants, no other studio would be allowed to take up to 6 years in some iterations between game releases of a pre-existing franchise. For instance if codemasters were making this game to the same level of detail and quality it would be out every 2 years.

Might sell my PS5. Horrible coil whine and Sony obviously aren’t behind the system.

Xbox series X seems a much better console overall. The only reason to go PS is the games and if they’re all coming out on PS4 there’s no reason for anyone to upgrade.

I’d honestly probably rather play on the PS4 and not have to put up with the horrible noise PS5 makes to be honest.

@Sakisa and the new god of war will be a really limited game no better than the last few top PS4 games and when you finally get a PS5 you’ll be disappointed that they didn’t just make it for PS5. Then you’ll have to wait forever for one that is actually current. But you do you, enjoy holding back gaming for the rest of us.

@Justin113 mine is fine, the most quiet console since PS2. I think you just have a dud.

And the PS4 lives on - what an incredible generation the PS4 will end up being

@Justin113 'holding back gaming' so dramatic as if games are inherently inferior on older hardware, and not even that much older mind you.

Yeah, that PS5 elitist comment is on point.

@Oz_Momotaro imma be happy anyway, thanks 😊

@NEStalgia I honestly think you may be on to something. Although it wasn’t the intent, this may be a short generation due to the disastrous launch and availability of both major consoles. I didn’t see it that way, but you have a solid point. It feels like very little for the current Gen (now technically no longer next gen) is coming soon and by the time we see big exclusives we’ll be halfway through a 6-7 year life cycle. It’s all kind of a mess really. This pandemic really turned a lot of things crazy.
At the same time, this scalping culture is here to stay and will only get worse in coming years. So I’m not sure anything is going to change unless Microsoft and Sony literally flood the market with product.

@Oz_Momotaro I have a PS5 myself (very lucky), but honestly there are no current system-sellers, mainly because a large chunk of customers can’t get systems anyway. Secondarily, there simply aren’t many true current gen games out there. As a fan of both consoles, both are lacking in superb quality titles that showcase the new hardware. I found it laughable that Jim Ryan said this was the best launch lineup in history. Sure, Miles Morales is nice but not a true killer app, and cross-gen. It sells great because it’s a Marvel IP and appeals to all ages . Souls looks great but not everyone’s type of game. Returnal is already a back burner and wasn’t even really a launch title. Ratchet and Clank will be the first title of any note since November.

Yes the pandemic affected things heavily but this has been a poor start other than raw console “sales” (a good bit of which aren’t even in player’s hands.)

Well this sucks!

gimme that Gran Turismo release date

...so what I really spent my money on was a PS4 Pro Pro

I can see why they want to milk the PS4 base but at the same time there’s no real next designed gen games aside from Ratchet & Clank which still hasn’t come out yet.

The new system needs some system sellers. The fact that all these games are coming out on both consoles means the development & testing takes even longer.

They’ve already shown how level design is restricted by the hard drive speeds on older consoles, *****, GT Sport in PSVR on the PS4 Pro was held back because the OG PS4 couldn’t handle more than 2 cars on the screen. The entire VR version suffered.

Herman also said that all PlayStation Studios games will come to PC sometime after launch. They are just copying Microsoft's business model at this point.

Honestly, why in God's name would they copy their competitor that has always come in 2nd place? Sony has "beaten" Microsoft each console generation for almost 20 years. So they decide to shift away from the successful strategy of exclusives to chase a few million sales on PC?

@Sakisa it’s not elitism at all.

There is no need to continue to support PS4 as it has a huge library and has reached the peak of what it can do.

Any game that has to accommodate 8 year old hardware is inferior to what it could be. Yes, PS4 games can still be good, but it’s absolutely holding gaming back from progressing further.

The selfish attitude here is yours. Either buy a new console or don’t get the latest games, this is the way it has always been.

@Denni5m sit next to it and play a PS5 game. Makes weird noises when you move the camera etc. The console is super quiet so you can hear it louder than you otherwise would. It’s also a frequency noise like a hearing aid so not everyone can hear it. But they all have it to some degree.

@Marquez I just feel that the PS5 should be developed for now. And if they’re able to make a PS4 game from it, great. Like a port or something that lacks features.

But what’s happening is they’re making PS4 games, that you can upgrade the graphics on a bit. So all the PS5 games are being limited to 8 year old hardware.

And the PlayStation 4 was never a technically great console to begin with. It’s really pushed the limits of what it can do. Cyberpunk 2077 completely exposed it, it just can’t run the best games so games have to be scaled down to accommodate it.

I also don’t see why the responsibility to PS4 users requires them to have these particular games. The thing has a huge library. They simply need to maintain ps plus and support for the existing games at this point while putting out Indy games and the occasional title that doesn’t require more power. No PS4 user is claiming they don’t have their money’s worth for the console.

If you make god of war for PS4 it’s not as good as it would be if you made it for PS5. And when those PS4 users upgrade, they’re going to be disappointed that they’re playing the exact same thing just a bit shinier. I don’t really see the incentive for them to upgrade at all at this point. Gran Tourismo for example was always a showcase for new hardware. It sold systems. A PS4 game isn’t going to sell the PS5, and it’s not going to be able to match a next gen Forza. PS4 is holding gaming back now.

@b1ackjack yeah exactly. Such a surreal and ridiculous “launch”.....

As a proud PS4 owner with no intention to upgrade for years i am so damn loving this

Good to know that the supposed next-gen console I spent over half a grand on is only gonna get properly utilized in a couple of years when new (and potentially better) iterations of the console hit the market.

I don't expect Sony to all of a sudden make every game PS5 exclusive, but some of the bigger titles could be considering that we've only got Returnal and Ratchet & Clank as new exclusive titles, the rest being ports, remasters and/or cross-platform titles.

Guess it's my fault for being too eager this generation...Should've skipped it like I did with PS4.

RE Village being on PS4 didn’t take away from the PS5 port’s next gen experience. At every moment of the game it’s clearly next gen. That will be even more true for 1st party games.

@truerbluer Microsoft has been very smart, they know there markets and it includes PC, so they have embraced all markets and new ones, mobile, with innovative services like Game Pass and Remote Play. Sony are visibly unable to compete with that, they are going to bring their games to PC, but try and keep the console exclusivity for a year or two first? And as you said that won't work and will annoy many console gamers, especially at £70 a game!
In essence with Microsoft you know exactly where you stand, with Sony you haven't a clue as they will lie and deceive you, and later admit they are doing the same thing as Microsoft.
To me that's the issue, Sony REALLY need to be up front and straight with people. Many love their games and console, but they'll be turned away if you lie and deceive them for profit.

Oh and GT7 is a system seller, they aren't exactly in the habit of making several games in the series every gen... so it really should have been a PS5 exclusive, but now I won't be at all surprised to see it on PC also in 2 or 3 years.

You can praise Sony for their business decision, but anyone saying making these games cross gen won't limit them, is straight up lying.

It makes me question whether I'll ever get a ps5. Apart from ratchet and clank, everything I want to play is also on ps4.

@Justin113 Except that abandoning a user base as soon as the new hardware is out, for not even a year is a ***** and selfish thing to advocate for which is exactly what you’re doing.

I fully plan to get a PS5, as do many people, but the reality is that isn’t easy and Sony isn’t going to just stop supporting the PS4 until a few years after the PS5 is out, and wanting them to do that is unrealistic to how console cycles have basically always gone. You can keep lamenting these games being held back all you want, but I somehow doubt they’ll be affected quality wise by this considering how good their PS4 counterparts were.

@DrJames Best. Generation. Ever.

😉

When I and others complained about PS games going to PC we were told that we were self-entitled and how could we be against others enjoying these games?

Now it's clear that some big PS titles are also coming to PS4 and the PS5 snobs are whining about it. I thought they'd be happy that more people have the opportunity to play these games?

🤔

I'm sure these titles will look and play great on the PS5. Not sure what people were expecting, a complete revolution in consoles gaming? Wasn't going to happen at least not within the first few years of this gen.

If anyone is experiencing buyer's remorse let me know, I'll be happy to take a PS5 off your hands.

With all these exclusives going cross gen, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jim Ryan goes back on his infamous “We believe in generations” quote and blames it on semiconductor shortages. It makes sense from a business point of view to release them on a console that millions of people already have but at the same time it’s contradicting Jim Ryan’s statements which is making him look a bit of a prat.

In regard to the US.

PS4 for 59.99
PS4 enhanced 69.99 (Labeled PS5)

It’s time to cancel PS4… besides Returnal and Demons Souls PS5 has just been the PS4 Pro 2.0

@Marquez True - many successful businesses are just copycats. But there is also a mountain of dead business that try that strategy.

For years Microsoft has had limited or no exclusive games, putting them on PC as well. This time around they're saying there will be no Xbox One X exclusives for at least a year. Contrary to that, Sony has focused on true exclusives, including making them available only on the newest machines.

It now seems that they are copying each other - Sony releasing first party big hitters on old consoles and also releasing all their games on PC, and Microsoft buying studios and purportedly focusing on exclusives.

My question is: why copy the business model that has failed to surpass your own more successful business model? It would be like Apple suddenly copying the Windows phone.

There might be 110 million PS4s out in the wild compared to, say, 10 million PS5s.

But most of the 8 million people who will buy God of War will be from that pool of 10 million PS5 owners. We've already seen that with Miles Morales.

Gran Turismo 7 on PS4? It should be released on PC.

@Bluetrain7 I don't remember many of my PS3 launch titles being constrained by PS2 hardware. In fact, Sony made a point of displaying why PS3 games would never be possible on PS2.

@Justin113 Thank you!!! This generation is being held back by PS4. Anyone saying otherwise is living in an oblivious cloud.

@Justin113 yeah that's coil whine, you just got unlucky. Sometimes you get it on PC video cards as well. Not much you can do there it's luck of the draw sometimes. My ps5 has no coil whine at all.

I don't care whether games are only being developed for current generation, or both current and past ones. As far as this issue is concerned, I am neutral.

Before any one tries to give me education on how business model works and how corporations make money, I have spent 10 years studying accounting and finance. I am a cpa. I understand how business works just fine.

My issue is not whether a game is being made for multiple generations. I also don't care if current generation is being held back by previous generation or not. I am simple a gamer who enjoys gaming.

I understand that this can be a cause for concern and they can certainly have an impact on lost opportunity when developing solely for newer machines.

With that said, my entire issue is about being misled.

Whether Sony "lied" or simply made you to "think" without correcting your assumptions, is what I have always found to be a cause for concern.

I was here last year when there was a drought of news regarding ps5. Quite a few people (including ones I see here in comments on this very article) were well convinced that Ps4 success was sufficient enough for them to make them want to invest into ps5.

I do not really think that it is a bad idea to follow a brand, generation after generation though. I also think it's quite al right to have consoles be good at backward compatible. It allows people like me with less lounge space to not want to keep multiple consoles [from same company] connected.

My concern is when a company leads its people by their nose hair and make them think that their console will be all about new experiences, and games will be targeted for new generations mostly, because they wouldn't be possible on prior generations.

As far as ps5 is concerned, I have seen enough trolling and enough egotistical arguments in past that supported Sony through thick and thin with their generational approach.

My honest question to those who blindly support Sony, is why do you allow your self to be in a situation where you constantly defend Sony? Why do you keep moving the goal posts to keep sony from being seen as the company that has misled you for last entire year?

Why not simply love the games and experiences of your preferred ecosystem, and hold them responsible for when they mislead you? Why bleed brand loyalty when it gains you nothing?

It is mind boggling.

@TrolleyProblems
Often the info you find in the media is misleading. I appreciate it can be confusing at times but people are all different and have different opinions and some form of bias is present in everyone.
Everyone is human and have flaws but should be respected as real people though.
Nobody 'blindly supports Sony' here. Its possible to have different opinions without belittle of others.

long may it last!

@JJ2 let's not take the high road and check articles and comments from last year this time around instead.

I don't need to do that research for you, look it up.

If you are going to pretend like it doesn't happen here then I will pretend like you.

Often people mislead themselves just fine without requiring media to support.

As far as "blind support" goes, there is plenty of that around here. Again, check articles from this time around, last year.

If you want me to point blind support in future though, I can tag you the next time I see it just to prove a point?

@TrolleyProblems
Nobody owns the truth. The point is every one is free to have their own opinion and feeling (and stick to it), and everyone can be wrong at times. It's easy for the public to be mislead when they don't have time to research the source and only rely on some media.. That is why the press has a responsibility to do it for the public and report accurate facts.
Discussion is possible in a friendly manner and different points of views can co-exist.
Agree to disagree when there is such a case and move on.
There s no need for drama in any case.
Happy gaming.

@JJ2

My opinion is very simple. I know there are people who firmly believe that Sony can do no wrong here. You cannot claim against it because there is more than evidence to suggest it. Whether you chose to ignore while wearing your tin foil hat, and calling Xbox an "eggsbox" and comparing "rental service" to game pass ultimate, is your choice. Your opinion.

My opinion stands, just like yours.

I understand that "media" can bend and twist truth, just like people who call Xbox an "eggsbox" while comparing a service they don't fully understand to a rental service.

You don't want drama? Understand that you prefer a plastic box with a logo that looks like "PS". It has nothing to do with liking single player action adventure games either. If it was simply about the games, you wouldn't talk about Phil good Spencer while telling every one that it ain't JR but Hurst instead.

You do not focus on games. You focus on every thing Sony.

You make fun of opposite side while constantly spouting nonsense. I am not making this up.

Look at your history.

I did.

You want to keep this ***** drama free jj? Then stop telling me to not give my opinions while your history with filled with yours.

You enjoy games like I do bro? Own multiple console or simply don't if it may not be in your budget. Which I can completely respect because people can't always have enough disposible income to do so.

I buy ps consoles regardless of how much I dislike the customer service, the return policies, the stupid warranty management and the constant lies.

I still buy playstation games. I am still waiting to get a ps5 when it can be easily available.
I will be buying ratchet and clank.

I have a switch. I have an Xbox series x. I play games. I don't dump on consoles. I simply dislike people bleeding green or blue and calling names to consoles when their name calling is completely unjustified. Take your "eggsbox" for example.

People constantly say that "oh Sony never exactly said that the games will be cross Gen!".

Agreed. But they did let you think of it long enough without correcting your misunderstanding. To me, that is worse.

You have clearly stated enough times that you are a playstation gamer through and through.

I am a gamer, through and through.

Please do not lug me into same boat as those fanboys you come across twitter. I enjoy games. But I will call out a company being an ass, when that company is being an ass.

I got a ps4 and Xbox one both on launch. Didn't mean I liked what stupid executives did at Microsoft back in 2013. But I got consoles because they had games I wanted to play.

The day you understand the difference between liking playstation games VS liking Sony, come and have a reasonable discussion with me.

Thank you kindly.

@TrolleyProblems
OK
You win!
Have a nice day man haha
🙄

Edit
I do like the 'eggsbox' thingy 😁

@JJ2 thank you for understanding.

@Oz_Momotaro I’m not an Xbox fan at all. I’ve only ever owned a 360 which was great, but otherwise I’ve had all the ps generations.

PS5 is just hugely disappointing. The main reason to go with Sony is the exclusive games and if I can play them all on my PS4 then that totally negates that advantage.

And as I say terrible coil whine, need tv on more than medium to not hear it from 4-5 feet away. Sounds like a broken old fridge. Hugely obvious in menus and stealth sections such as Hitman 3. Trying to sneak around and just have a constant buzz from the console. And you may have it and not know - it only comes on PS5 version of games when the console is really being pushed and some people just can’t hear coil whine as it’s a frequency noise. But the majority of units seem to have some and Sony are saying it’s normal and they’re supposed to do that.

With Xbox Series X and a PS4 pro you have the best of both worlds. Sony’s latest exclusives (bar ratchet and clank) and a next gen machine which is built better and technically superior to the PS5.

It’s you who has the ‘fanboy’ problem here it seems. I’m simply looking at the pros and cons of each. The Xbox series X is undeniably better if Sony aren’t using their exclusives on PS5. Not only does it not have coil whine but they’ve actively put a liquid substance on their parts to prevent it. While Sony are using the same cheap capacitors they used in the PS4 pro.

I’m not sure what we’re debating here. It’s a well known fact that the Microsoft hardware is better - they make PCs in the main. But it was the Sony exclusives that sold the consoles, not haptic feedback that never gets used because the game is made for PS4 first and foremost and is little more than a gimmick to begin with. Until they ditch the PS4, most people are better off saving their money and I wish I had.

@Sakisa it’s happened every single generation. Tell me one generation where Sony have continued developing first party exclusives for the previous generation beyond the first couple of games.

Usually you get a few years of fifa, assassins creed ports etc, but you’re essentially saying Mario 64 should have been made for the SNES.

Gran Tourismo has always been a launch title for a brand new console. Perhaps the previous generation got a port of it at some point, but developing specifically for out of date hardware isn’t something that has been done before outside of a small initial transition.

Sony literally said GOT and TLOU2 were their last big PS4 titles. It makes no sense to keep developing big games for a console that reached its limit, its holding everyone else back.

When can I have my PS5 games? 2026? Very selfish. You say yourself you’re intending to upgrade to PS5. So you can play crappy PS4 games on it? No, you will want next gen. So just wait like everyone did every other gen is the better solution for you as well as me but ‘wahhhh I want god of war now’ is all I hear from PS4 users. So we’ll all get a gimped god of war. Congratulations.

@Oz_Momotaro

That is perfectly alright mate. You do not have to understand me for what I have said to be any less real.

I absolutely do not disagree with you there. But I have Yet to see xbox “fanboys” hoping that Sony goes out of business. I have seen that on flip side tonnes! Issue has never been whether fanboys exist or not. Issue is the blatant fanboyism resulting in hoping for other company to stop being a competition, period.

I cannot disagree with about your feelings on JR and mixed messaging. It is not just about games. It is about my entire experience as a consumer. My experience, my frustrations. My enjoyment. It is not about games alone. It is about not being treated like an idiot who will buy into what ever misleading remark I am sold.

I am “only” going to be buying, like “every” previous PS console, new ps5. But not because I enjoy company, or because I enjoy console. As you said, it is because I also enjoy “games”.

However, me liking games is not going to change the fact that I dislike the approach of how I am fed the information or kept from it. It is not going to make me want to make it my base eco system to thrive on. This did not change when xbox one was released with Don Mattic being in charge of the messaging. It was absolutely horrible, but yet I got Xbox one just fine!. PS4 released with crappy software, but I got that as well!

I can assure you that I fully understand the ps5 having its significant advantages in areas that XSX cannot compete. It is simply not going to change.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about the corporate brand that meets our needs comment.

But when that corporate brand is not forcing you to want the competition to die, and you create that notion in your head your self, it becomes an issue. Unless, you wish to tell me that the corporate brand known as Sony is indeed making people want to see the competition dead?

I personally love the Game Pass for what it is. It allows me to test my games and gives me things without an addon, that I can then chose to buy while buying the base game, if it is something I enjoy!

I also like the fact that Xbox Game Pass model is not looking like crap based on today’s E3 presentation!

I absolutely have zero issues with buy what you do not have philosophy because competition has zero issues forcing the games and content to not appear on rival product. Time exclusivity is a nasty thing.

I have experienced it first hand, being second class citizen in Destiny 2, where a gun and a map is kept from you for an entire year, so you can “think” about going for Sony? Are you kidding me? Sony thought I would prefer their brand just because I do not have a gun or a map?

But I did pay for full game though? Why did I not get same game on xbox as I would on PS?

I am more than happy with Microsoft buying Zenimax, because from what I heard, Sony was on the table for it as well. So Sony DID intend to buy Zenimax then? Does that mean that they would have gone too far too had the talks been successful? Point I am making here for you is, Sony had same idea that Microsoft had. One company simply ended up buying it over the other.

There is no “buyer’s code” in this. There are no rules here. These are your philosophies. Acquisitions happen. But I do not start contemplating life and philosophies over this. I play games while looking at who treats me how.

I am the sort of person that hates sony’s form of communication. I am also the person who has owned every ps console since PS brand was ever created.
What makes you think that I do not appreciate gaming?

And before you go on trying to educate me on giving up gaming for golf, back the hell off.

I have been playing games since I was 3 years old. I have played games on giant floppy discs. I have played games on Atari. I have gaves on Nes, I have gamed on Sega. I am a 37 years old guy with 34 years of gaming passion.

If you think you can come in here and make me question my gaming hobbies, then you are sorely mistaken.

It is YOU who must understand what being a customer means and what it is to be treated better. Exclusive games do not make me feel like I am treated better.

My entire experience is what that allows me to decide on when I am treated better.

@Oz_Momotaro I’m not trolling! Do have bad coil whine it’s a shame.

If you read what I said, it’s that the PS4 Pro for exclusive games, and Xbox Series X for the better hardware, which is kinda factual at this point just by looking at specs, is the best combination.

Why? Because how many PS5 exclusive games do you like?

This is easily solved by ditching PS4 support and moving on with the next generation as they promised they would do. But as it is I paid $500 for slightly better looking PS4 games and a broken fridge noise. There is no reason to own a PS5 right now unless you really like Ratchet.

@Oz_Momotaro also regarding reading the comments, when did I ever mention liquid cooling?

Coil whine comes when the capacitors vibrate. It’s the sound of the parts touching. Sony use cheap parts, the same as in the PS4 pro that also have the problem, and make no effort to limit the noise (Microsoft cover the parts with a substance - not to cool but to stop them vibrating against each other). Then they say ‘electronics make noise’ and refuse to accept it as a defect even though you yourself say that yours doesn’t make this noise.

@Oz_Momotaro I said they put a liquid substance on their parts to prevent coil whine. Which they do. You are talking about liquid cooling. These are two separate things. The substance they use it to keep the parts from vibrating against each other, it has nothing to do with cooling. Perhaps learn about the console before you start lecturing. Or just drop it, it’s really old now.

@Oz_Momotaro If you truly had such a degree you’d be aware that companies such as these innovate beyond what you learnt in class and you’d also be capable of doing your own research. A quick google search of ps4 coil whine will show you the capacitors and explain the problem. And there are many videos online of people taking the Xbox apart. Again you took a lot out of context, I never said anything was done specifically to eliminate coil whine or that they completely succeed. Just that they add a liquid substance and it’s better. If you are determined not to accept weird noises that clearly weren’t intended as a defect to justify your purchase then there’s not much more I can say.

At this point I’m just going to be the bigger man because you keep bumping a really old thread needing to have the last word and there’s no prizes for arguing on the internet my man. I won’t be coming back and I suggest you don’t either. Have a nice day.