“We believe in generations.” It’s another quote from PlayStation boss Jim Ryan that will likely haunt him for the rest of his career, similar to the comments he made about some classic Gran Turismo games a half-decade ago. The executive’s generational declaration must be considered in context: it was publicised at a time when Microsoft announced that it would continue to support the Xbox One with its first-party titles for the foreseeable future. PlayStation 5, according to Ryan and his suited subordinates, would be different.
And, to cut the corporate figures some slack, it has been. The platform holder has published titles like Demon’s Souls, Destruction AllStars, and Returnal in this generation already, with Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart due out in a couple of weeks – all four are playable only on a PS5, taking full advantage of all its features. The problem is that, once Insomniac Games’ dimension-shifting Lombax leaps onto the next-gen console later this month, it’s unclear when Sony will publish a true PS5 game again. Comments from PlayStation Studios boss Hermen Hulst suggest that, like Horizon Forbidden West, key titles such as God of War Ragnarok and Gran Turismo 7 will release on PS4 next year. We’ve requested comment from the company.
For many, this has come as a startling revelation, who feel that Sony has lied to them. The messaging, even if we’re extraordinarily kind to the company, has been poor: “We have always said that we believe in generations,” Ryan told GamesIndustry.biz in an interview approximately a year ago. “We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features. We are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5.”
Of course, confirmation that titles like Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, and Sackboy: A Big Adventure would also be playable on PS4 drew a thick red line through that statement many months ago. But it’s important to remember what else Ryan was saying at the time: “We have always felt that we had a responsibility to serve that [PS4] community for several years after the launch of PS5 and that it represented a huge business opportunity for us,” he said in the exact same interview. “The numbers are quite straightforward. If you say in broad brush figures that we have a community of 100 million PS4 owners right now, and in the first couple of years […] I don't know, somewhere between 15 and 25 million might migrate to PS5, that still leaves a huge number of people with PS4s.”
The reality is that, due to a chip shortage caused by the ongoing pandemic, the transition from the PS4 to the PS5 has been slower than perhaps Sony intended. The Japanese giant had sold 7.8 million next-gen consoles as of 31st March, beating the PS4’s record across the same timeframe. However, there are still millions upon millions of PS4 owners who have been unable to get the new system. That, according to Hulst, is one of the justifications for continuing to support its previous console: “You can’t build a community of over 110 million PS4 owners and then just walk away from it, right? I think that’d be bad news for fans of PS4, and frankly not very good business.”
But while this is good news for the millions of people still playing on the PS4, those who have paid a premium to purchase the PS5 early in the generation may feel misled. Games like Gran Turismo 7 were advertised as exclusives; that’s no longer the case. Horizon Forbidden West enjoyed an exceptional showcase on PS5 during a State of Play last week, but there are still questions over what developer Guerrilla Games could have achieved if it wasn’t forced to target ageing hardware. Unfortunately, it’s the kind of question we’ll never know the answer to.
One thing that’s important to remember is that games do take a long time to make, and it’s likely when God of War Ragnarok, Gran Turismo 7, and Horizon Forbidden West were given the go-ahead, they were all pitched with the PS4 in mind. Had those last-gen versions been quietly cancelled behind-the-scenes, without their existence ever being publicised, the final products would likely be identical – it’s just, for disgruntled PS5 owners, the ignorance would be bliss. Yet, Sony has been all-too eager to promote the advantages of Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart’s exclusivity, so it’s entirely natural to ponder what could have been – that’s a question of the organisation’s own making.
It’s worth mentioning that, if we remove Sony’s own misleading statements from the equation, this transition hasn’t been all that different to what the company’s done before: God of War 2, one of the company’s biggest productions at the time, launched exclusively on PS2 some six months after the PS3 had released; Gran Turismo 6 launched exclusively on the PS3 shortly after the PS4 had deployed. There is, also, a history of cross-gen content from the company – the likes of LittleBigPlanet 3, for example, spring to mind. PlayStation has always promised ten year lifespans for its systems, and some of that has meant ongoing first-party support.
So, clearly the existence of Demon’s Souls, Destruction AllStars, Returnal, and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart illustrate that Sony does believe in generations – but the company knew what it was doing when it made that statement, and now it’s paying the price with poor publicity. The pandemic may have pushed God of War Ragnarok out of its intended release window, and semi-conductor shortages may mean that the transition to its next-gen console hasn’t quite gone according to plan. But all disclaimers aside, it’s fair for fans to question: when is the next true PS5 exclusive coming after Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart? And exactly when can we expect all of the company’s titles to take full advantage of its next-gen hardware?
Do you think Sony lied about the transition to PS5? Do you still think it believes in generations? Was the company simply misleading with its marketing? Don’t release on PS4 in the comments section below.
Comments 258
Lied is kind of a strong word, in my opinion. It's been a very strange start to this new gen. Most people that want a PS5 still can't get one, there's a worldwide silicon shortage, the pandemic is still going, and millions of people still have and regularly use their PS4 because they can't get a PS5 (myself included). Sony would lose millions if they didn't still focus on PS4 due to reason completely out of their control.
Yes they did. There is a screen grab from GT7 in the upper left saying Playstation 5 exclusive and suddenly it’s on PS4 too. If that isn’t lying and misleading I don’t know what is
@Jackpaza0508 Just edited to add that in, but you beat me! Thanks for pointing it out, though!
inFamous: Second Son was made to be on the PS4 despite having the same timeframe, if not more time between the PS4's release and when inFamous 2 was released on PS3. They quickly transitioned to the PS4 and There is no reason GoW and such should not have done the same thing. They knew it would take at least this long, and we all knew before the game was announced it would be on PS5.
So much of what excited me about the new GoW was it being released from the game design shackles of the PS4, and I will go from being very excited for a follow up to a fantastic game, to not that excited for a cross-gen inbetween that severely toned down it's ambition to be on old hardware. Sony said the new features would be used, and I expect that.
PS5's will sell, and anyone who has a PS4 but wants a PS5 in 2022 will be better served by waiting a little longer for the better game.
@KIERONOO I'm not defending this, because I agree it looks bad, but they've been terrible with these disclaimers for ages now. Recently they marketed Ratchet & Clank as a 'console exclusive', and they also messed up with Demon's Souls before.
TL;DR: Not excusing it, but they always mess the smallprint stuff.
They misled a little but I don't think they lied. I always expected the next Horizon and God of War to be on both. The previous games released in 2017 and 2018. Did people really think they started making the next games during those same years on PS5? No that's foolish. They were always going to be on PS4. Now if Naughty Dog or Sucker Punch started making their next games on PS4 that would be madness as they just put out games last year. They should only be PS5 games and I'm sure they will be. We've still gotten some quality PS5 only games including Astro, Ratchet, Returnal, Demon's Souls, and the upcoming Deathloop, Ghostwire, and Forspoken.
Basically yes, I mean this talk came out at a time when fans were criticising Xbox for making cross gen games for the next few years, so its clear to me it's intention. Miles Morales was a long time announced before any mention of the PS4 version was forthcoming, even now we have to dig through a blog to find out that GT7 and God of War are cross gen as well.
I have no issue them supporting PS4 as well, in fact I welcome it as I can wait even longer to jump back on next gen but they did make it sound very much like The Last of Us 2 and GOT were the last big games coming to PS4.
They were just very misleading at the time
Every since Shawn left PlayStation hasn't felt the same.
It’s usual for games to be on the last generation as well as the current for about three years after the new gen’s launch. Nothing new here
Not necessarily lying as pushing the truth. I was lucky enough to get a PS5 back in March and honestly I’m a bit disappointed. I skipped the PS4 and getting a 5 seemed more logic than getting a 4 at this point. My view is that I would pay more than further down the line and deal with some oddities but I would be able to enjoy the new generation from the start. We’re now 3 months later and I have yet to play something else than PS4 games, ratchet will be my fist real ps5 game. The way I see it I get all the downside of an early adapter (potential hardware problem, higher price, bugs and inconvenience of the OS) but not the upside of enjoying anything really from the start as pretty much every game I care for the foreseeable future will be on PS4 too.
Diplomatic: They weren't completely honest
Truth: Yes, they lied
But: Please understand...
The system is barely six months old and people are acting like every single PS5 game for the entire lifespan will be on PS4 as well. I see nothing different during this transition. Typical gaming writers across the industry being hyperbolic over very little. Besides, it's a smarter business move to make these earlier titles cross gen.
Yeah, they lied. It's really that simple for me.
Let's be real: Sony technically did mislead only a few gamers who actually care about next gen and other gizmos. The casual audience is still gonna slowly transition from the ps4 to ps5, so them hearing that these AAA games are coming to PS4 will be a relief to some.
We all want to claim that the chip shortages plays a part, but let's be real: If it was really the chip shortages, then these games which were in development before the announcement of the ps5, would've been delayed in order to work on a ps4 version.
Just my two cents, but at the end of the day it's just business.
Ryan’s statement, “we believe in generations” etc. is without sure or precise meaning, so it’s hard to consider it misleading exactly. It’s a far cry from “our promise to PS5 purchasers is that all PS5 games will be developed from the ground up for that system.” This is all academic for me until I can purchase a PS5 of course.
Who cares, it's a continuation of what Sony has been doing and some games overlapping console generations is to be expected. Personally I'm over the moon that GT7 is coming to PS4. PS5 ownership is a minority market at the moment compared to the PS4. That will change over the years, I'm not getting a PS5 for at least 3 years. I'm really pleased.
Yes!
GT7 was PS5 exclusive until today the others where hinted as such "because here at Sony we believe in generations".
@tinCAT-zero This comment right here.
If I could play Demon's Souls remake at 30 fps at a lower resolution on my PS4, I'd probably buy it to be honest. Can't play it at all at the moment as can't get a PS5.
It’s not really ‘lying’ per se, just Jim Ryan being Jim Ryan. If Sony don’t want game journalists being hyperbolic then Sony themselves shouldn’t be hyperbolic. They can’t make these big statements and not expect people to be a bit pissy when it turns out not to be the case.
No because they never said every game would be exclusive to PS5. So far we've had Demon's Souls, Astro's Playroom, Destruction AllStars, Returnal and soon Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. It's more then what Xbox has delivered so far...just saying.
People think a game being exclusive to PS5 will bring about some great innovation. GoW will be just like the game but with more refined combat, and new locations and enemies. Some wanted flying mounts for Horizon (myself included) but having might actually break the game's flow. Where the game is about exploring and often stealth based combat, just flying about anywhere you want just kinda makes that redundant. And Gran Turismo 7 will draw from a bigger player base from PS4 players.
No they didn't lie. They said this before a massive component shortage. Not to mention they're still releasing Ps5 only games. How does "we believe in generations" = every new game from this day forward needs to be Ps5 only. No console maker has ever done that because its incredibly stupid. If they did do that you'd just be writing articles complaining that Sony abandoned Ps4.
I totally don't see the Issue with Sony changing their minds with putting some games on both the PS5 and the PS4. With how many PS4 Owners their are all across the world it would be stupid to hold them back from getting Horizon or GT or any other game that's both PS4 and PS5 until the PS5 can meet demand.
If Covid didn't happen(and other issues) and Sony could make enough PS5's for everyone to have one then that would be a different discussion.
In the meantime Horizon will make way more money being on PS5 and PS4, it will look amazing because Guerilla will definitely push the PS4 to the limit and the PS5 version will be awesome.
I trust Polyphony Digital with GT on both systems because this is the first big GT game in years.
I don't see a issue at all with games being cross generation for a while until the pandemic calms down and we get more PS5's out their. If you can't get a PS5 you can play the game on PS4 and probably get the free upgrade depending on the game.
Good job on Sony for keeping the whole Playstation community involved with their games and making sure a PS4 owner can play the game if they don't have a PS5 and whenever they get one they can upgrade to it too.
I own a PS5 and a PS4 Pro, PS4 and still play games on my Pro. I don't think Sony lied at all. The Pandemic changed a lot.
Sony didn’t lie but misled us that Generations mattered, when all that mattered was 95% of PSN revenue comes from PS4
Yes.
Yes they did.
The dirty, filthy liars.
What was the kweshchun again ?
As long as the games are still good, I’m not bothered by the inconsistent messaging.
I imagine the the process of determining if a game will be cross-generation is something like:
Sony to dev: “does your game do anything that can’t be turned off or scaled down to run on PS4?”
Dev to Sony: “nope”
Sony to dev: “make a PS5 and PS4 version.
Misleading, definitely. Because it certainly seems that misleading their customers, or even just failing to share information, is something Sony has become comfortable with ever since Jim Ryan took the helm.
Also, where's the PushSquare article about Hulst possibly admitting that all PlayStation exclusives will eventually be on PC? That's a part of the interview that definitely deserves to be highlighted.
Yes, they lied
https://res.feednews.com/assets/v2/428bdc4d185fd48fecac949c72ed8e64?width=1280&height=720&quality=hq&category=us_Gaming
For a provocative article, this was exceptionally well written and well considered. 👍
Jim Ryan could have easily had only the features of the DualSense in the back of his mind when delivering this infamous speech and it would be no less true. Improved resolution, frame rates, loading, performance options, exclusive PlayStation 5 DualSense features, 3D audio, and a better performing system firmware are benefits just off the top of my head that PS5 adopters are receiving right out the gate. How can all of that be discounted as a meaningless upgrade?
I think they meant it at first until the pandemic hit and production problems meant less playstation 5 units in people's homes
They only seem to care when they’re failing.
This Jim chap is bad news. We don’t likey.
I don't care. Have a ps5, played less on it than on my XBsX. I just had to get the ps5, being such a PS segz worker that I am, but I'm telling all my dudes and relatives to relax and wait for xmas 2022 before buying it.
What happened in my opinion is that they didn't think they will have so much trouble making consoles and therefore their sales will be so much shortened.
If they would have sold console for everyone who wants one, they would probably have made those games PS5 only. But since we know how it is with their sales right now, they don't want to release a game that won't reach its full potential audience, therefore only way for it to do so if they release it on PS4 as well. PS4 users can rejoy while next gen adopters left with empty words.
They already delaying their games from being on sale for whooping 6 months or so, just because current gen market isn't big enough for AAA titles as it is, so they hope that people who will be getting ps5s soon will be buying them at full price.
They saw that some consumers were criticizing Series X over it's cross-generational plans and wanted to keep them being criticized longer.
It backfired, because now we have articles like these.
Sony believes in one thing: money. And there is money on selling games to PS4 owners that cant or wont get a PS5 for years to come.
Typical generation transition. Stop moaning.
I have to be honest, I'm disappointed. I was hoping for god of war to be ps5 exclusive not to be elitist but because I want to see someone like Santa Monica or naughty dog push what the ps5 can really do. I want to see features that you simply couldn't do without an ssd.
@EVIL-C The problem is many of us bought a PS5 for many reasons and one of the biggest is the super duper fast ssd. Not just for loading games faster but to get rid of elevators, crawling through cracks in walls, etc.
I def feel a bit deceived.
@Ristar24 it's not just the performance issues it's the forced PS5 & PS4 bundles for games which marks the price up for software at this time which is completely useless as there is no hardware to use it, it's excessive imo
Guess you already know my answer to this😂.
@UltimateOtaku91 But PS5 is selling more than the PS4 comparing launches.
@art_of_the_kill that would blur all the dividing lines between Xbox and Sony.
For now we would always say between my friends " why would you need Xbox if all of its games can be played on pc. Just get playstation and pc and you are good ".
Once they start releasing all their games on pc there is literally no difference between owning playstation or Xbox. In fact, Xbox is even a better option if you planning on playing games from all generations.
God of War Ragnarok is coming in 2022, I presume several months into it. That is another year for PS5 units to sell. Is Sony still expecting to have PS5 shortages in 2022? If, yes, what the heck. By 2022, there should be less folks who choose not to have a PS5 and only have a PS4. I understand this year (2021), but Sony should be concentrating on PS5 games. PS5 games should not be limited by PS4 limitations.
So we are now back to the angst filled news cycle then.
I think they misled the community, but not intentionally. Incompetence, rather than malice.
I believe that Horizon and GOWR were always going to be PS4 titles. In fact, I think they were being designed with the same mind as Miles; push the PS4 to its absolute limits and add a litany of enhancements for the PS5. Their development times line up with a cross gen title and they are reusing their engines from the previous installments.
GT7 surprises me a bit. Development time lines up, but just the nature of the game led me to believe it was always intended for PS5. PD typically receives alpha development kits before anyone else, so I figure they knew about the PS5 specs before any of the other first parties did.
@Jarobusa hunger grows while eating.
Did you see their expectations of the market? 50% dominance? That alone tell you how hungry they are.
Sony could say the sky is green and the grass is blue. But they keep pumping those must have exclusive titles out.
Yes they did mislead, but the reason to go cross generation makes business sense for game sales and return on investment.
If you think Sony have some fun with the console market, you should get involved with their TV market with HDMI 2.1 and Dolby Vision and VRR etc. Along with tv updates that don’t happen.
Then again in the tv market they got what they deserved, from 1st place to now behind Samsung and LG. That must hurt, but they are still silly and stubborn with their 2021 top end TVs.
I think it is only their Gaming market where they are not stubborn or silly.
@R1spam Sony is proving that they are not holding back game design to support PS4, but instead, they are supporting PS4 where game design permits it.
Ratchet is the kind of IP you want to sell to as many users as possible, but they are holding it as a PS5 exclusive because they need the SSD for the dimension hopping mechanics.
I am sure, had the GoW decided they had a feature that required the SSD, they would had not hold the game back for it.
Just like Miles Morales, the game will simply likely have seamless transitions with zero load times, even if quick travel is available, while having some sort of transitional scenes or screens on PS4. Again, just look at Miles and how that game handles exiting mission maps seamlessly on PS5, but has load screens on PS4.
People feel like thats a lie? I mean, I guess for me, I've just perceived it as video games take time to develop. So I'm sure a ton of these have been in the works for the PS4 years and we'll start seeing more PS5 exclusive games next year
@ApostateMage
Yeah, please understand...
Poor Cerny, had him go out there talking about how the PS5 was going to revolutionize game design. But they're out here designing games with the PS4 in mind indefinitely. Maybe Cerny should have said "at least halfway into next generation". I feel bad for him😟😂
Lied is way too strong a word, and i don't feel misled either. I bought into PS5 in the midst of a global pandemic knowing that i could expect faster load times and better performance.
The PS5 exclusive games will come in time, and i don't blame Sony one bit for continuing to support their player base on PS4. They have always been good at supporting previous gen for 2 or 3 years after the new machine has launched.
Honestly, bravo to Sony AND Microsoft for launching new hardware (and soon Nintendo) into a world no-one expected when R and D started all those years ago. Both have done a great job. And well done to all those developers getting games into the hands of consumers to keep us entertained.
Jim Ryan - “We believe in generations i.e PS5 and PS4 and PC as one generation” As a PlayStation owner from the PS1 days to now I am disappointed the way SONY are bringing next-gen games to last gen consoles and PC :-/ Oh well.
Tomorrow we'll get a confirmation message from Sony Santa Monica and Polyphony, GoW2 & GT7 PS5 only.
Hulst to have 'miss-spoken'.
Still great way to get the internet talking about Playstation and the upcoming games isn't it.
There's no distinction between lying and misleading. Misleading is merely lying with enough cover and wordplay to claim plausible deniability. The intent and purpose is the same, the latter simply involves greater levels of clever deception for ones one protection while lying.
Supporting PS4 into the years is not bad. It's good. That's what Sony should be doing. Their current trajectory is the best one regarding platform support, and providing the best value to all their customers is something they should be praised for now. But they lied early on and that must be called out. In addition to their own "misleading statements" (lies with cover), they prodded the community to invent their own narrative based on very leading statements, then encouraged that reality to be spread, because it was a narrative that made Xbox's position look worse next to Sony's. Eventually the reality of that narrative's inaccuracy had to be faced, and here we are.
It looks all the worse when one side of their mouth praises and promotes what limitations the PS5 frees game design from, while the other pretends there's no difference until their flagships all launch.
@Rob_230
After years of planning they had to release new hardware, or they would be left behind the PC master race.
People say returnal dont look next gen but its a ps5 exclusive only.it looks great to me.i couldn't care less if a lot of games are coming to ps4 also.its been happening.no surprise there.word up son
Yes they lied and I am outraged!!! The fact that 100+ million other people will have an opportunity to play a game will absolutely make my experience less fun!! Putting my ps5's on facebook marketplace now!!!!
I think people are being shortsighted on just how significant making these games (still a year away from release) for both ps4 and 5 is.
By choosing to let last gen hold the new consoles back from a true transition to next gen, we won't see true ps5 games from these studios until nearly the end of the ps5s lifespan, and surely after sony cashes in again with a mid generation ps5 upgrade. This puts this trend continuing indefinitely between generations going forward.
Game development cycles have become nearly half decade affairs costing millions which puts games beyond the cross platform ones still being finished, out to 2026 or later. We were absolutely sold a console that basically improved loading times and added a graphically nerfed frame rate mode for cross generational games; Oh and offered us 3 ps5 only games.
They should have waited on the ps5, and my dumba$$ should have waited on buying it
Yup the company lied, I don't have problems if sony still want to make games for ps4, but just be honest and don't lie.
I don't think it's worth it to make 1st party games for ps4 anymore next year, most of hardcore ps users that buy sony games day one already move on to ps5, or don't want to play their exclusive games on lesser system, just looks at miles morales sales.
@get2sammyb
'but there are still questions over what developer Guerrilla Games could have achieved if it wasn’t forced to target ageing hardware'
This disrespects developers suggesting they cannot treat PS4 and PS5 as 2 different systems, it's like saying the PS5 version of a game is held back by the XBOX/Switch versions.
They are different systems with different strengths/weaknesses yet get many of the same releases.
There is nothing to suggest Gorilla haven't focused totally on PS5 then scaled back to PS4 or even that the game does not use the PS5 to its full potential because it just doesn't need to.
Thankfully there are so many new games on both gens. How sad to have RE8, FC6, ect. only on PS5 this early in the current gen life.
Also there is the superior performance of the game when played on PS5 compared to on PS4. Just 60fps instead of 30fps along with faster loading makes the upgrade worth the wait for PS5 only games. Then too how many of those future PS5 only games may make the PS5 seem weak?
@Tharsman for god of war, I disagree. Loading times in the ps4 reboot game were hidden by climb this or crawl through this space a la uncharted 2. These are things that you can't change about the game design between console versions. Having the use of the ssd would allow for fundamental differences in the design of the game world in this regard.
It is actually better that Sony would still be supporting the PS4 than totally abandoning it. Game development take years to complete. I highly doubt Sony didn't have the PS4 in mind when their studios started developing HFW and God of War Ragnarok.
I think it was a miscalculation. At this point Sony and developers expected a lot more people with a PS5. The promotion of new games running on next gen consoles has not been the same as on previous occasions.
we have games only on PS5, we have stuff for both...
Honestly don't get this discussion, we're too close to PR guys...let it go
I think Sony planned to “get everyone moved over to PS5 as fast as possible” as they targeted…but then..whoops…pandemic…chip shortages..production bottlenecks...features like external shortage way behind schedule..scalpers ensuring most who wanted a PS5 last holiday did not get one…and still can’t…etc.
I just think they are now planning more of an extended transition. Mainly because people STILL can't walk into a store and buy a PS5. So to have to market a "PS5 Exclusive" along with the fact that you can't actually buy a PS5 to run it does not make a lot of sense from a business standpoint. Hard to have a system seller with...no system.
I am constantly amazed at not only new PS5 games, but updates to current PS4 games (adding 60fps, 4K, RT). If AC Valhalla runs at 30fps/1080p on PS4 and 60fps/4K on PS5, I am unsure what is being held back. The SSD is still providing the PS5 with amazingly quick load times on PS4 titles.
It's a good conversation and good article (not happy about the click-bait headline though) but lying is a bit strong. More like pivoting, as businesses are doing during this past year of craziness.
Did Sony miscalculate 2020? Yes.
Did we all? Certainly.
I personally think if they could get the machines out better than they are doing we wouldn't be seeing so many cross gen games, maybe Spidey Miles and Sackboy but the rest would be next gen only.
All you folks on ps4 saying that the games won't be held back are hilarious. Play a true next gen game and you will realize why us ps5 owners are disappointed. There was so much they could do with GoW being a ps5 exclusive. Also, all this talk about the machines not coming out quick enough. That doesn't make sense when ps5s are outselling ps4
@Play ever since playstation became americanized and moved their playstation division to one of the most annoying states in the US , playstation hasnt been the same . it all went down hill post woke-cali-sony.
#fireryan
People like to throw around words like "lie" all the time, when it comes to making accusations against others.
Reality is much more nuanced than that.
If they had no intention of releasing these games as ps5 exclusives and they were actively making them playable on ps4 from the getgo, yes, that would be lying.
But if they changed their mind at some point, no, they didn't initially lie.
Im an early adopter and frankly....I couldnt give a sh1+
Same old console.generation shift, I was an early adopter of PS4 and all I had to play was Killzone ShadowFall. This time ive had Demons and Returnal, the latter has blown my mind, hinting significantly at future possibilities. Plus a generous PS Plus collection, allowing me to finally play (and platinum) GOW, aswell as play the sh1+ outta Days Gone (completed that too), both had amazing PS5 boosts too, in particular GOW, just stunning in 4K.HDR etc etc... also Astrobot is never mentioned, it was bundled in with the PS5 for.£0 and felt like a truly next gen experience, due to the insane haptics and resistance.
I'm happy for now....a year or so out all of this will be forgotten and Sony Fanboy Army will rule the earth 😆
@zimbogamer yes, but people who wanted a ps4 could easily buy one a few months after it came out. Not the case with ps5.
They did and I'm kinda pissed about it. I don't want to sound like a pretentious prick just because I have the luck to own a PS5...but if you have those amazingly big exclusives being held back by the PS4 then it's surely disappointing.
Glad we have Ratchet, doubt anything will take it out of my Game of the Year (hopefuly) choice
When will the ps4 versions stop though, games like horizon or GoW2 are coming to ps4 but why ? I feel like it puts more strain on the developers to make sure it runs smoothly. Or you get a ***** storm ultimately lower rating overall because an out of date console can't keep up to new age. I feel this was 30% if cyberpunks problem the hardware just couldn't handle it
I wouldn't say lie. Things just didn't go according to plan as intended y'know because pandemic. So desperate times need desperate measures, they've thought it hard and realized business wise it'd make sense to release cross-gen. I mean they want all the sales they can get they're even releasing games on PC, go figure.
@frankmcma very well said!
They just made a lot of PS4 owners really happy. I do not believe in forced upgrades.
That I can play GT on my PS5 and now my brother can play it on his PS4 is great news. Whatever the reasons. Lie or not, we ended in a better place.
@The_New_Butler
@The_New_Butler
I think they originally planned to launch in March 2021. No later than that.
I think Microsoft did catch them off guard, though. And they bumped the launch up to November so some of the UI and firmware features had to get delayed. I got mine at launch and it felt real janky for the few weeks until the third firmware update smoothed everything out. But even then it’s still missing features.
I don't think they outright lied but they should have been way more honest from the start especially when MS were an open book, i mean we have known from the start that Halo Infinite will be on X1 but Sony very much implied Horizon 2 and even Spider-Man MM were PS5 exclusives.
So will these games on both platforms be £50 for ps4 and £70 for ps5?
They are damn liars.
3rd party has for most part been what keeps cross gen alive throughout gaming history. 1st party is to push the medium.
There was even more PS2s out there when they moved on to the PS3 than this current history.
@Uromastryx
I wouldn’t compare cyberpunk’s situation to what Sony has going on.
99.9% of that game’s problems were self inflicted. Mismanagement, over hyped, an overly ambitious release date.
The game was designed for the 8th generation consoles. The management just completely screwed everything up and rushed it out the door when it was clear it needed another six months of development to iron out the performance and bugs.
And IMO, I don’t even think developers have maxed out the base PS4, much less the Pro just yet. I think Horizon will be the performance swan song for the console. I doubt GOWR will tax the system like Horizon will.
Sort of like how TLOU was the PS3’s swan song and pushed the Cell and RSX to their breaking points.
Why would anyone care about this? Oh no, you got a PS5 and you can play all the games you wanted in their best version...how dare people who haven't been able to upgrade yet also get to play those games?! Cry me a river. Most of the games releasing in years one and two started life as PS4 projects anyway.
I don't think they lied at the time they said they believed in generations, I think they changed their minds this year due to a lot of people who want these games not being able to get a PS5. And I'm not saying that they're doing this for fan service like they alluded to today, it's more a revenue thing.
If the majority of God of War fans are still on PS4 because they can't get a PS5 but want to play the sequel and would buy it if they could, well you probably should sell to them.
I don't care myself, as a PS5 owner. As long as I get the occasional showcase title, then I'm not upset. I just want to know what exclusives are coming. I assume they're all 3rd party this year after R&C.
The problem with this article is that at no point did Sony actually promise what you claim they promised. Read those quotes again: where in them precisely did Jim Ryan or any Sony employee ever say that new games would only be released for the PS5 after that console was unveiled? I certainly cannot find that promise anywhere in those quotes or any other Sony document. There are posters here claiming that Spider-Man: MM was sold as a PS5 exclusive, and that just is not accurate.
You don't get to invent promises that were never made and then get your panties twisted when it doesn't happen.
On edit: I would love to know how many of the super-upset posters here claiming Sony "lied" either massively overpaid for their PS5, had to engage in a major effort to purchase one, or both. My guess is that there would be a strong correlation between them.
Did Sony lie? No.
I didn't even think this was an issue until I saw the headline.
I've been playing Demon's Souls since launch, Returnal for a month, and I'll have Ratchet and Clank to play Friday week. PS4 didn't have three exclusives this good in the first year.
The only issue here is Ryan needs to be a little safer with the stuff he blurts out when he's on the spot.
That's it.
Everything, absolutely everything that hasn't yet been released is "subject to change". Which is why execs can be "flexible" with what they say when making a pitch for a next gen console.
Regarding the delay, plans change all the time, especially in the past year. Supply issues have forced a lot of us to do a lot of things differently.
Can you imagine how many PS5s would have sold if everything had gone to plan?
If this turns out to be true regarding God of War I really don't mind. I was going to get a PS5 anyway, and I'm glad I did. As mentioned in the article, these games all would have begun development on PS4, and I seriously doubt, given the reputation they have for the freedom they give their developers, that Sony would have forced Santa Monica to downgrade and compromise the final product, or that someone like Cory Barlog would have been able to stomach that.
Nice to see people aren't losing their minds and picking this as the hill to die on though, as is usually the case online.
@NoxAeturnus lol, this! i'm just happy to know i'll get to play GoW ragnarok and H:FW on my ps4.
@munstre My guess is they decided last summer, height of pandemic uncertainty and facing a Fall console launch while the world burned. Could they do a PS4 version downgrade of a developed PS5 game in a year. Probably?
I just believe they pivoted, could have put the info out sooner, more than they secretly were lying for the past several years and suddenly they are now caught.
I don’t feel lied to or mislead. CEOs are like politicians. Ryan said they believe in generations and he said that u have to take care of the current community. Anyone that thought Sony would leave over 110M in the dark is an idiot. While I might have been able to play some games that came out on PS5 on my PS4, I wouldnt have enjoyed them as much as I did. Let’s move on from this topic and just enjoy!
Yes, Sony did lie. Honestly it'll be interesting to see what happens regarding crossgen at the Xbox showcase on June 13th. Currently for Xbox Game Studios there are 2 upcoming already announced crossgen games (Psychonauts 2 and Halo Infinite).
Did Microsoft take the crossgen backlash initiated by Jim Ryan's "we believe in generations" and Microsoft's showcase of Halo Infinite gameplay to heart and there's no crossgen games after 2021 or is there 2022 onwards XB1 games to be announced?
Of course they lied. These games were ps4 games from day 1. If it was being designed with the ssd in mind, there is no way they can just suddenly pull a ps4 port out of their arse and make it cross gen, because there is a chip shortage. They knew exactly what they were doing.
@Shepherd_Tallon
It doesn’t really bother me.
I think they unintentionally misled everyone. But that’s more or less Sony’s incompetence at messaging. They’ve always had issues with their messaging, it’s just gotten worse in recent years.
This is the same company that announced a secret handheld a month before they were supposed to on a PS3 digital magazine.
@munstre Yeah, maybe you right, but all the information that had so far did not give to think that they would come out on PS4. it seems more a desperate measure. Sony does not expect the situation to normalize until the next year.
@Boon520
British pricing?
I think they should charge 59.99 USD for any cross generation game. Exclusives I’m ok with at 69.99. Well not ok with, but I get their reasoning.
@knx2501
They can’t just start up development for these games on PS4 over night.
They began their lives as PS4 titles with PS5 specific features incorporated into development.
The only one I honestly believed wasn’t cross Gen was Gran Turismo. That one really caught me by surprise.
They knew what they were doing. It was all a promotional ruse to sell the PS5's. They knew GOW was not releasing this year and even Horizon might not make it. They knew they needed to sell as many consoles as possible early on with the moves MS has been making. Because in a few years when the 24 studios MS has starts pumping out games. Sony will have a real problem trying to keep up with them.
@KIERONOO Have u ever said “Hey, I plan on doing this!” Then realized how dumb it would be for u to do it that way or do it at all?? Then suddenly decide “Nah let’s do it this way!” Changing ur mind (for good business sense) is not lying.
Honestly couldn't give a s**t.
I don't really care? I feel like getting upset that more people get to play great games is such a silly, entitled feeling. He reality is just cause the PS5 is put doesn't mean the PS4 generation is suddenly over. It's the most successful console ever, right? It will take years to wind down. Sony would be dumb to not cash in on that tail.
I don't know about lying per se, more so misleading, but one thing is for certain:
I feel justified in not buying the PS5 when I had the opportunity to do so. I will continue to wait until it is either cheap (unlikely to be for a while given the manufacturing situation) or enough worthwhile games come to it that I can't play elsewhere.
Well.. it'll certainly be interesting to see how technically it's true PS5 exclusive games stack up to its cross gen ones. Gran Turismo is a game that really should be a PS5 exclusive.
But of course they lied, that's Sony now and Ryan, they saw an opportunity to discredit the competition and it's come back to bite them in the arse and make them look the fools they are.
The way they were going to kill off the Vita, and didn't tell anyone still making games for it. And now this, says it all. Sony is a deceitful company.
@EVIL-C I don't think many are questioning the games being cross gen (some will moan), just how Sony haven't been very up front about whether a game will be or not. Miles Morales on PS4 was a secret until pretty close to launch and they haven't exactly been forthcoming about GT7 and God of War being on PS4, I mean just tell us if they're cross gen
"With these things, something’s gotta give. It cannot be the quality of our titles, and it surely won’t be the health or the wellbeing of our amazing team."
This is the stand out sentence for me from the interview. I'm reading it now and I like it. It's very open and very honest. Plus, they're not putting crazy pressure on their dev teams.
As a lifelong gamer and someone who works in the gaming industry, I really like this interview. Two months ago we were all desperate for communication like this.
"Releasing games on PC will not come ever at the expense of building an exciting lineup of great console games."
Everyone gets what they want.
Can't ask for more.
@TheRedComet
Yeah no doubt it was management there completely agree,
I'm not sure about maxing out the ps4 I feel it's definitely getting there but then again GoW came was outstanding visually I think alot believed it couldn't get better, but the TLOU2 came preformed way over bar in both storytelling and visual so surprises can happen, and if sony perfect horizon and GoW2 with optimisation for the ps4, they will indeed blow anything previous to it out if the water, im anxious to see but will be while yet, at least for gow2, I've high hopes for horizon 2 this year like December. I'm really just thinking when will developers feel obliged to just ignore ps4 versions, for sony triple A probably keep them coming ps4 for at least next 3 years
@Talon_Zanarkand agree!
Of course they lied. ‘We believe in generations’ then they announce multiple exclusives coming to ps4 as well as PS5.
At the end of the day I’m not that arsed, it is what it is, but they lied.
Yea they lied but in a way to take a shot at Xbox. And then all the chavs joined in. And then it all backfired. They should have just looked at Xbox and realised that actually this cross-gen thing could work; and actually thought about it; instead of being petty.
Are there really people who think all this time games like GoW were PS5 only and at this late date b/c of chip shortages now they're going to start making them for PS4?
If that were the case, why weren't Ratchet & Clank and Returnal also released on PS4? And if you think it's b/c they can't be, wouldn't you also have to think if GoW was also made only for PS5 then that "can't be" made to work on PS4 either?
Bigger question - how many articles will PushSquare publish about lieing when God of War 2 isn't subtitled Ragnarok? 😂
Definitely not a great statement that was made, definitely misleading. But I think as long as PS5 has advantages that PS4 doesn't (which it most certainly does) I am cool. Not everyone has money for a $500 console, especially during/after a global pandemic. If PS4 owners can play a scaled version of a PS5 game, then that's awesome. I feel happy with my PS5 purchase, in terms of native PS5 games and improved PS4 games. Anyways, I get why people are pissed here, but my vote is "we're cool".
How dare Sony give other people the opportunity to play their upcoming games on PS4, when is almost…impossible to find a PS5 at $500? 🙄
He does believe in generations. He believes in two at once to maximise profits. Makes sense to me and I am at the bottoms of the food chain.
Made my views about PS5 pretty clear... this feels like a victory for me.
It's a little bit of everything, but mostly money.
Want to sell ps5'? "We believe in generations"
Want to keep the many, MANY ps4 owners/future ps5 owners happy? Hfw and gow need to be multi-gen.
It's a business first, then a business second through 80th.
There is a difference between a game releasing for PS4, and being designed for PS4. I can imagine that PS5 was the lead console during development and, given the stock shortages, Sony asked some of their developers if they are able to get their games to run on PS4, and they found that they could. It would be naive to expect developers to be so familiar with a system this early on to be developing games so reliant on that system's unique features that it couldn't possibly be ported to a previous generation. In all honesty I feel the main thing fanboys are upset about is that they can't lord it over Xbox players, and that's just pretty pathetic
I have a feeling it will be like this for the whole generation, a lot of what ifs. The PS4 user base is so huge, there’s no way everyone will transition in a couple of years, so it’s likely there will still be a large player base they’ll need to cater to for their big hitters. We’ll get some niche ps5 exclusives, sure, but tentpole titles? Doubt it
@Ilovecoffee I think the main issue is... if Sony is just making prettier PS4 games for the PS5 (instead of ‘proper’ PS5 games), why buy one?
I’m quite happy to keep my PS4 Pro for a few more years if that’s the case. The loading screens might be a few seconds longer but I can live with that 🤪
@fR_eeBritney
It’s more than a few seconds.
PS5 load times are insanely fast. Returnal loads almost instantly. I can’t count it. It’s nuts.
There's also the issue that scalpers have thousands to tens of thousands of PS5s. So that also makes it even harder to get one unless you're willing to reward them and pay a premium.
@munstre
The second method used to be a lot more common. But it fell out of favor with the 360 and PS3.
Jeez. Just reading the first 2 sentences in the article are just misinformation. You need to quote the full question and FULL answer.
Jim Ryan was replying to a question regarding Xbox mandating supporting last gen for 2 years. Jim said PS believes in generation and talked about the DualSense, the Tempest audio and SSD. Hardware generation leap.
Do your research.
GT comment was also fair. I totally agree I wonder who would play GT1 on a 4k screen.
Can't be bothered reading the rest of the article and I'm surely going to get insulted for stating facts.
Yes, Sony lied. Or at the very least, they were being intentionally misleading. The comments about generations came when Microsoft was getting flak for continuing to bring new titles to Xbox One. Those comments gave Sony some good publicity and made Xbox look bad. And yet, Sony ended up doing a similar strategy to Microsoft in this regard.
Personally I'm glad that there's still 1st party titles coming to PS4. But Sony definitely misled, and they deserve backlash from doing so.
Of course they believe in generations. But did people really think/expect that they were going to just abandon a 115+ million PS4 user base and start making all their games for PS5 only?
Better a handful of vocal idiots melting down over nothing, than giving an entire user base of millions something to be genuinely angry about.
"We believe in generations" is not equal to "there's a cut-off, and all future first-party games will be PS5-only."
I don’t understand why this is big deal. Let the people who own a PS4 enjoy those games too. Maybe they can’t either afford one or they are not finding one. With the shortages going on until next year, I can’t see this as a big issue at all.
Their messaging may not have been the best but they did deliver exclusive games on the system day one and has followed up with other ones too. 3rd party games are releasing games left and right on all systems so why not first party games too.
I said no, but not for the reason in the poll. It’s clear that they didn’t know so many of them would be scalped. Then continuing to support the ps4 is in response to that as they know so if the games were all ps5 exclusive they wouldn’t make a profit
No I don’t feel lied to, that thought hasn’t even crossed my mind.
And about the next-gen experience, I love the PS5 so far. Keeping in mind it’s still brand new. IMO a small library is to be expected for some time with any new console generation and has been the case with every console I was an early adopter of.
I also feel like any game that uses the DualSense’s adaptive triggers & haptics feels as next-gen as I’ve ever experienced. Even 3rd party games like RE Village on PS5 deliver an experience that cannot be duplicated on any other system and definitely not the PS4.
Or Control, where it runs smooth compared to the PS4 but mainly it’s use of the DualSense creates an awesome experience to me.
Oh one more thing. PushSquare posted just a few days ago that 25 PS5 exclusives are in development. A complete lie from the press. Not from Sony. Sorry thats just the truth.
@JJ2 I have no problems with the article as it does give some context the more you read, but I'm truly puzzled by the reaction of enthusiasts and some headlines I'm seeing regarding the Hulst interview.
Sony lied about having next gen games?
He responded to every criticism that had been doing the rounds, but it's this one thing everyone is focusing on.
Demon's Souls and Returnal are already out.
Ratchet and Clank is days away.
Yet still Sony lied about next gen games?
Sony do a few things that I question from time to time (better refund system please), but this isn't one of them.
And I don't know Ryan personally so I don't care about him, but much of what he said is taken out of context, as the article explains.
Anyone who's familiar with me on this site knows that I'm pretty reasonable and I don't do confrontation (except for that one time 😬), but nobody will be able to convince me that Sony don't believe in next gen with, again, Demon's Souls and Returnal on my shelf, and a copy of Ratchet and Clank sitting in a warehouse somewhere with my name on it. 🤷♂️
I just don't feel very misled.
@Shepherd_Tallon
I agree with your view but from the article 'the company knew what it was doing when it made that statement, ' is not exactly fair. It's the press who put major clickbait about the answer.
Also again not long ago falsely claiming Sony has 25 ps5 exclusives in development. Completely misleading.
@The_New_Butler I don't buy either argument. PS5's price isn't likely to drop for a good long while. Anyone waiting for that is waiting for it regardless of sales and launch games. And as for "compromised games" I think that's an illusion created by FOMO. I'm supposed to be outraged because the game might have acheived some unknown amount of betterness if it hadn't been on PS4? Patches will make up the gap, like always. With how long dev cycles are we are seeing and will be seeing upgraded PS4 projects for a good while yet, even if they were exclusively released on PS5. No, I think the only people who care about this "issue" are just mad that they aren't special.
even if its on both consoles it will always play and look better on the ps5 , its obvious because they can't produce enough ps5's they want to sell the game so it makes sense to put it on both consoles.
You say "Gran Turismo 6 launched exclusively on the PS3 shortly after the PS4 had deployed"
I say Bloodborne launched exclusively for the PS4 1year+4months after the console hit the market.
So, by 2022 in March, is there gonna be such a big AAA game launching exclusively for the PS5? No PS4 version, no backwards compatibility, PS5 only, next gen pureblood... Methinks not...
While the pandemic and semiconductor shortages definitely have to be taken into account, Sony also has to admit they've misled people about what they really gain if they buy a PS5.
Right now the only thing selling PS5 is not the games.... is the people's tendency to desire what they don't have... "the one that got away" syndrome, "the chase is more important than the catch" ... however you want to call it.
Once you finally have it, you spend 1-2 months playing whatever's new, then one day you wake up and realise... that's all there is to it. No new launches, very few exclusives available, very few games that offer full and proper support of all of the Dualsense features, no big AAA exclusives for the next year (!!) just more remakes, backwards compatibility titles, and 3rd party games made with the last gen in mind and adapted to move faster on PS5.
So you think back and ask yourself : "Why the F...K did I spend so much time hunting for the damned thing" ?
Cause Sony told you it's gonna be great!
Not saying Demon's Souls or Returnal or even Ratchet and Clank are not good games, 'cause they are. But they're not God of war, not Uncharted, not Horizon, and most definitely not Bloodborne.
So yeah, as a PS5 owner i do feel that the console is dragging it's feet right now, still lingering in the PS4's shadow. And news that it's gonna be at least 1-2 more years before it's gonna see the light of day, and it's gonna stand proud on it's own exclusives, doesn't sit well with me at all...
@Shinnok789 i mean i tell every one that , people want a ps5 so bad , but then they'll complain about it when they finally get one. me honestly i'm happy with my purchase , ps4 games play much better , the ps5 games i have tried out are good. but we are finally seeing some good games coming out with horrizon and rachet , with alot of good stuff in the future. but like i said to the people who think they are missing out because they don't have a ps5 , they aren't missing out on much , and can wait to get one.
While I do think Sony was very misleading with it's initial PS5 marketing, I think there is much bigger issue here: there won't be much output from Sony's first-party studios that is exclusive to PS5 for a while.
We have no idea how long it will be before Naughty Dog has a game.
Bend Studio sounds like it's next IP will be a while off.
Bluepoint probably won't have something for a couple more years.
Media Molecule is probably super busy with Dreams for any new IP from that studio.
God of War will be cross-generation
GT7 will be cross-generation
Horizon Forbidden West will be cross-generation
Miles Morales is cross-generation
Sackboy is cross-generation
Isn't there rumor that Destruction All-Stars is getting a PS4 release (or was that official?)?
Anyways, unless all these studios have other PS5-only projects in the works that haven't been announced, we won't be seeing anything from some of Sony's best studios until who knows when - especially when currently announced games are getting pushed in 2022 faster than this site pushes Square.
It has the potential to really hurt interest in the PS5 - especially since articles such as this are now circulating the web.
At least Microsoft was up front about it's cross-generation plans. People criticized Microsoft for essentially "not selling" the Series X|S, but nothing was left up to interpretation.
In the end, this doesn't necessarily bother me. I will get the best version of these game on PS5 - just like I will get the best console version of games released on Microsoft's side of the aisle by owning a Series X (yes, I know a couple-thousand dollar PC would technically be the best version since PC is included in Microsoft strategy).
Still, it's pretty clear that Sony's messaging regarding exclusivity on PS5 was way too vague leading to this point.
@B_Lindz i also don't think they see a reason to cater to a smaller PS5 base but that could come back and bite them. If people wind up losing interest in the console due to lack of games and scarcity of the device itself, it could result in people migrating away from Sony. Especially if Microsoft accelerates the throttle on next gen performance games. I think they are on a tight rope here and should tread carefully. This isn't as easy as just ignoring your next gen base.
@JJ2 'the company knew what it was doing when it made that statement,'
That's a fair point, you're not wrong. Edit: Although I have seen this site shoot down popular online notions in the past, such as the one that said Sony was no longer taking risks.
End edit.
I'll be sticking with Push Square because I do like the writers and the community is fun (not as frantic as most other gaming communities), and I go to GamesRadar for news about other platforms, but I've backed away from all other websites in the last few years because, as you suggested, the media conjures up mountains out of molehills because they need the clicks.
It happens every time. One site runs a headline, somebody tweets it, now its a topic and everyone has to run an article on it to generate a conversion in their own comments.
The majority of the bad press surrounding PlayStation since 2016 has been garbage. They caved on cross platform, and they need a better refund system. The rest of it was junk.
I've actually recently paid for my first ever sub to a print magazine (Play) because of all of this. I miss a time when headlines had to be accurate. Print needed to be accurate to sell, online just needs to generate a conversation.
Again, I enjoy Push Square. This little rant is about the nature of online reporting in general.
Do game journalists think they lied? You and others reported on it.
My wife fortunately bought me a PS5. I've played the awesome Astrobot and have nothing else to play. Not into souls games, not my cup of tea and Ratchet and Clank is probably my least favourite ongoing franchise - I dislike the humour and gameplay. I'm here for new experiences like Resogun, infamous SS, the Order and Driveclub - which we got year 1 with PS4! Also exciting ongoing news like P5, uncharted 4 and MGS.
The current PS4 games are obviously great but I don't understand the desperation to own a 5 when it's the exact same experience as a PS4 pro bar Astrobot and dark souls. I'm very disappointed with this introductory salvo, and should have waited.
That said TLOU 2, Dreams and Ghost of Tsushima launched last year so I will give Sony a bye for now. Hopefully in 12 months time the future games from all parties will become clear.
@koffing Reporting on what someone said and presenting their quotes makes you a liar if the person who said it lied? That makes no sense. How did they lie, they reported on what he said, gave us the quotes? Did they lie about the words he used, or was the quote altered?
This isn't how lying works.
Sony absolutely lied, not only to their customers but also to themselves. Despite this article's effort to cover for Sony with paltry evidence that PS5 exclusives are adequate, and that it is past practice to release last-gen games during the life of next-gen consoles, these carefully selected examples don't reflect an accurate picture of how past console generation transitions, all console generation transitions, have gone. PS5 is unprecedented in the slow rate at which exclusives have been released. We are 6 months into the system's life and we have 4 console exclusives, only 2 of which are non-childrens games. That PS5 launched with only one game, Demons Souls, is unheard of. Every Playstation console, indeed every console ever has released with more than 5 and some as many as 20 next-gen console exclusives. Furthermore, when Sony talks about not wanting to "abandon" the 100 million PS4 owners, they misconstrue what that means in the market. Historically, continuing to support last gen consoles meant keeping servers operational, providing any updates necessary, but no more. You don't sell new systems by designing and releasing games for last-gen consoles. It's worth noting that that despite the record sales of PS5, it's also true that a record number of those PS5's sold were to scalpers who are still trying to sell them on ebay. This is reflected in the incongruent number of players actually playing on PS5. Sony has made money selling PS5s, but not to the right people. This has resulted in games with extremely low player counts (Demons Souls is one example)- something that should concern Sony significantly if they care about long term profits. As someone who has been a fan of gaming for every release since Atari, I look at what Sony is doing as a concerned parent looks at a wayward child. I just pray they can learn from the lessons of their fore-bearers before it's too late.
SONY: we are about the next generations
MICROSOFT: you can play any of our old games on the new XBoX One X-YZ 720p 98 degrees - we'll call it smart delivery...it's really just backwards compatibility but it sounds cooler right?
GAMERS: Yay! MS is so consumer friendly - I wish Sony did that. Sony sucks, they hate me as a consumer....but man, I do love my PS exclusives...
SONY: ok, so while we did say we believe in next gen - the fans are pretty loud, maybe we should cater to them...why don't we make our exclusives playable for both PS4 and PS5? - sure let's do that. that way they can enjoy our games on whichever system they have.
GAMERS: boo! Sony are a buncha liars!
They definitely did lie. I don't mind certain games still being released on PS4 but I was lead to believe games like Miles Morales and God of War were PS5 exclusive. They should have made this clearer from the start and considering the fact these games (amongst others) were the main reason I bought a PS5 I do feel annoyed.
@Durnford40 You're missing the point lad. Nothing to do with being a crybaby customers were mislead/lied to.
@strawhatcrew We must have been looking at totally different opinions.
I saw:
GAMERS: Games will be held back by Microsoft's approach. What a dumb decision, Microsoft. Sony cares about next-gen. Yay for Sony, Microsoft is still stuck in the past.
etc. etc. etc.
So I can see the backlash.
"All I hear is me me me" says the guy spamming the comments.
Yeah I think you've said enough now kiddo.
As long as the PS5 versions of the games make full use of all of the PS5 additions, like the dualsense, power, sound etc, I don't really care about it also coming to PS4. Yeah they lied, but didn't care then, don't care now as long as PS5 is fully implemented.
Can't say it lied because it was never explicitly stated 'all PlayStation games from here on out will be for PS5.' Misled? Could maybe say that. All I know for sure is I'm extremely disappointed that the PS4 is holding back games like Horizon: Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarok and GT 7, however great they will be, from being true next-gen experiences.
@GamingFan4Lyf
Yup that was definitely being said. Now people are dong a 180 to defend Sony, which is typical.
@Jaz007 uhh wasn’t implying journalists lied.. I was merely asking for their opinion. They asked for ours.
@Durnford40 Lol I'm a 43 year old child 😅
I'm just saying people were mislead and as Consumers we don't like it, we prefer honesty.
You're new here and you don't know me so I'll make allowances for that.
Idk man, this pandy has messed up so much in the entertainment industry so it's whatever to me. What I do know is that I'm having a blast with my PS5 even if I'm mainly playing mainly PS4 games after completely skipping last gen consoles entirely. I got mine by (unfortunately) downloading twitter on my phone and following 3 PS5 drop accounts. Three weeks later I had mine. Hope that helps someone get a sweet ass PS5!
@Durnford40 Dude you need to chill out. I have everything that you just named and that is why I had to skip the PS4. I’m fine with them releasing games for the PS4, all I’m saying is that as of now it just feels like having a PS4 Pro V2, but you also get a lot of crashes with the OS so there’s really few upside at the moment.
It was the first time ever I bought a console within 3 years of the release I was maybe just expecting to see more of the difference of a new generation in what will be likely 18 months of its release (assuming these game won’t release before April 22).
You know when you’re an adult and you can finally afford the things you wanted as a kid but never managed to get? Well this is this for me, it’s just not what I was hoping it to be for the time being. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.
@Durnford40 Dude you're weird. I'm not even being hostile towards you. I suggest a chill pill.
Good luck.
I consider them all to be PS5 exclusive, whether they are or not. I'm not going to play any of them until I can get my hands on the new console. Why settle for a lesser experience?
@Durnford40 I don't see anyone here being flakey except you tbh. The Article was asking a question and people expressed their thoughts on it and you just appear out of nowhere spamming the discussion. Hardly something a 50 year old man would do.
Just a FYI I have no issue with games being cross gen but Sony really should have made their intentions clearer from the start.
The easiest answer as to why games are being announced for PS4 that previous said PS5 exclusive, might have something to do with PS5's being in short supply. The microchip shortage has put a massive delay in production and there is no real sign of them speeding up.
As a Ps4 gamer I am glad that many of the launch titles are cross gen. By the time devs get the hang of the Ps5 I will be ready to jump in... I think. At this point the selling point of the Ps5 for me is that it plays Ps4 games and I didn’t buy a pro. However so far I see nothing that is making me want to drop the cash for a new system. I hope I am surprised later on though.
@Durnford40 First of all I'm not a fanboy as I game on everything and second I never said I own the site either. I don't like your aggressive tone here so I'm just going to add you to ignore now making your comments invisible to me so don't bother replying anymore as I won't be able to see you.
You get alot of PR speak from Sony now days which alot of the time can be misleading
I'm too progressive. So my stance is Sony should abandon the PS4 and make games only for PS5. I mean not right away, but sooner than later. Because you have to consider how many PS4 owners are still out there and currently how hard it is to even obtain a PS5. It's more special though to get a game that last gen can't run or run well. That's always been the idea of transitioning to next gen. But this current leap to next gen has a been a strange one. There's only a handful of true next gen console games. While the majority are enhanced upgrades of last gen games for next gen consoles. That's a pretty strange way to ring in next gen gaming.
I think it is quite clear that Sony's statements around generational divides were untrue.
I understand continuing to support previous consoles, but I would also like to see more game exclusive to just the PS5 rather than having so many games being cross-generational, particularly when talking about games coming out in 2022, such as God of War Ragnarok.
Until they fix the CMOS oversight, Sony is absolute scum in my book. In a few more years, there will be 110 million bricks in peoples homes after they can’t load games or discs. Why that isn’t on the top of everyone’s mind in this conversation is beyond any logical reasoning. Sony is literally stealing money due to that immense oversight.
My situation before the release of PS5 was trying to keep my PS4 from not going jet engine loud. Having the whole house know I was playing the console. I am very happy I picked up a PS5 and have enjoyed many games from Playstation Studios so far. I do not mind if Ragnorok and Horizon are cross platform, if that is what is necessary for Sony during a pandemic and microchip shortage. These two franchises were stunning on PS4. I will just get to play them on a whisper quiet PS5.
@MidnightDragonDX I see people saying everywhere that cross-gen has always been around but I don’t remember Killzone Shadow Fall and Bloodborne being on the PS3, I don’t remember Super Mario World being on the NES, I don’t remember Tekken Tag Tournament and Smugglers Run being on the PS1, I don’t remember Luigi’s Mansion and Super Monkey Ball being on the N64. It’s so weird, I must be from a different timeline.
If you are talking about 3rd party titles, then yeah, they’ve always done this crap. Not the games the push the medium forward.
@get2sammyb
Will you guys please do an in-depth article covering the history of 1st party titles that have been cross-gen versus 3rd party titles that have been? I feel like many gamers are misremembering this.
If Sony are able to build god of war as a fantastic ps5 experience, and then strip it back so it works on PS4 then I see that as a good thing. If it’s holding back ps5 development then it may have a problem.
However, more than Sony lying, Microsoft should probably be commended for being honest and putting their plans on the table.
If you have a PS4 then you're not excluded from playing upcoming titles even though these will be played on ageing hardware which will lead to a compromised experience.
If you have a PS5 then (until the games are released on PC!) you'll be getting the very best version of HFW and God of War, with better framerates and graphics and audio and loading times. Isn't that enough? Should it be? I sometimes think gamers expect too much nowadays and often take an almost elitist approach to gaming. We've become very spoilt over the past decade or so and it seems a very vocal minority aren't happy unless they have something to complain about!
PS5 is still the best place to play Horizon Forbidden West or God of War, this news doesn't change that.
Did Sony lie? Yes. And no. Not every one of their Studio releases will be on PS5 only but some will. I suspect Naughty Dog's next release will definitely be PS5 only, same with whatever Sucker Punch are working on. Spider-Man 2? That might end up on PS4 as well but if does I'm sure the finished product will look and play even more amazing on PS5.
If anyone's feeling buyer's remorse then let me know, I'd be happy to take a PS5 off your hands.
😉
@Col_McCafferty Yup, PS5 owners will be playing the best PS4 games.
@strawhatcrew you have a point to an extent. Maybe it is just how horrendously bad Sony are at PR at the moment. A clever company would have come out and said “we hear you and given the current climate, where possible we will strive to release games on PS4 where it doesn’t impact PS5 development”.
Then I think they come off as a good guy rather than as lying.
Maybe ‘lied’ is harsh but they were certainly misleading, or disingenuous, or ‘economical with the actualite.’
The issue isn’t that these games are cross-gen. For all the fuss about exclusives I think most Console early adopters grasp that a lot of the attraction early on is playing the best version of games rather than completely exclusive games. Plus it makes total business sense and these are businesses after all.
It just looks a bit off because the intention was clearly to use ‘believing in generations’ as a sales driver and a stick to beat the other guy with. That interview was at a point where Xbox was getting a lot of stick for making the sensible decision to support last-gen systems where possible.
That quote was picked up on by the more fanatical elements of the Playstation fanbase and used as bait, while Sony were vague about what platforms games were going to be on. As a result the impression was given that PS5 was all about new exclusives while Series S/X were just playing d games. To those who follow this stuff closely (which isn’t the mass market BTW) it doesn’t look good. What else will they be vague/disingenuous/misleading about?
To me personally it’s not as big a problem as me not being able to get hold of a bloody PS5 but there’s no denying it stinks a bit.
I honestly think this "we believe in generations" thing has been blown out of proportion. He didn't say "we believe in beating our old consoles to death with a spade as soon as a new one comes out and woe betide anyone who releases any games for them." He said "we believe in generations" when asked if there'd be exclusive games for PlayStation 5 in response to a Phil Spencer quote when he said that Xbox Series X wouldn't have any first party exclusives for a couple of years as they'd all be cross-generation titles.
I don't think what they've done is a lie or even misleading. There has been multiple exclusive games. There's more announced. More coming soon. With the correct context it's totally fine, and a non-issue.
For me it's quite simple. I think they did speak true when they said they believe in generations, but since then Corona intensified as well as the chip shortage. To me this is a logical consequence. The vast majority of their player base doesn't have the choice to buy a PS5, so they can't leave them behind. Both in loyalty and profits.
I'm sure Sony would have loved to keep their blockbuster titles as PS5 system sellers... but they don't have the systems to sell.
@KIERONOO I don't think it's been confirmed that gt7 will be on PS4, I think it's just speculation as far as I'm aware based on what gtplanet said recently.
I've played Astro's Playroom, Demon's Souls, Returnal and have Rift Apart coming next week you can't get those on PS4. I'm not fussed about some games being cross-gen as I know the two games people are whining about will be fantastic regardless of being exclusive to one console or not!
We as long as their cross gen games look like current gen games in ps5 then I don't see a issue, i highly doubt this will be the case on those games though. Its already apparent on the new horizon game, that looks pretty much like the PC version of zero dawn that was released last year. So we can already see it's held back that game most likely, but more likely that these games that are being rushed out the door or made on old engines are ripe for the PS4 picking.
There are no consoles why would you make such a investment of probably more then 100 million for 8 million consoles. (of which people dont want to pay €70)
@get2sammyb Sammy do you think anybody ever thought yeah that this epidemic would happen? Now with shortages on chips so they cant even make enough consoles.
You would be stupid to invest in 100 million costing games with only 8 million consoles. With consoles at scalpers people waiting for sales and people simply not buying the game because they dont like it.
There are games that are for PS5 only mostly smaller and new IP's and a remake. As cool as Rachet and Clank is it would sell 10 million copies (i hope after this game it will).
I find this clickbaity but thats me.
I am more worried about what the ps4 limitations will do to these sequels if they are indeed released on both generations. With Covid limitations already delaying games, being asked to release on 2 generations seems a difficult task
As long as the PS5 gets to have the best version with all bells and whistles, I'll be happy. Also, we live in tough times and games provide a welcome escape from the pandemic for emotionally crippled societies of today. It's a good thing that more people will get to enjoy these games and can have something to be hyped about.
Exclusive support for PS5 titles only and Sony is accused of abandoning the PS4 playerbase.
Supports cross generational titles & you get the idea.
In my view, Sony striked a good balance between pure next gen & cross gen titles. The messaging could be better, yes but these days it's easier to hate than to love.
I think he said what he believes, not that Sony is ready to go bankrupt for this. Until they’re able to meet demand for PS5 they are still mainly the PS4 company so everything makes perfect sense. And so many games are on both consoles, yes, but far better on PS5.
Sony didn't lie they were faced with a shortage of components to build any great number of PS5s. However, with a potential 10:1 games sales for PS4 vs PS5, the financial implications for those devs not supported by Sony are huge.
As far as the PS5 exclusives go:
1) Demon’s Souls is a PS3 remake that they didn't bother with for PS4.
2) Destruction All-Stars actually looks like a PS4 game & they might have more players had they not tried to grab limelight by being a first PS5 exclusive!
3) Returnal looks more like it but what would a 1080p 30fps compromise look like? We'll never know - unless they want to sell more. IMHO, all these 3 look do-able on the PS4.
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is the only one that looks like the PS4 would break a sweat at due to the PS5 having to hammer its SSD continuously to get the transitions between worlds. (wonder what the mean time to failure is for one of these SSDs?)
A few load screens/smaller areas/less shiny graphics and I don't know if the old stager could pull it off? But it won't get the chance to as Sony will keep this 1st party PS5 exclusive as, let's face it, the PS5 needs some exclusives worth upgrading to as for me, I really see nothing worth the £450 outlay...yet.
I think the pandemic and chip shortage led to a lot of cross-generation releases. They want as many people as possible to play their games.
“ No, this is a typical generation transition” and most have voted for that?!
Never, and I mean NEVER have Sony published first party exclusives cross-gen in its entire history except PS4/PS5. NEVER.
Not acceptable really. Completely misleading messaging from the off and I can’t understand how people have voted for that option, do your research 😂
@Shepherd_Tallon
Oh I do like PushSquare in a GOW kinda way haha. 'Don't be sorry, be better' and my comments are meant to criticize the press in general.
I'm just a man of facts. I like facts and the press should have a laser focus on facts and THEN give their opinions based on them.
'We believe in... ' something. In no way that should be questioned as being a LIE and articles giving in the mob are shameful.
Thats how you get people calling Lisa Sue a liar too lately.
Next week a new gen game in released only on PS5. 🙆♂️
MS - we will continue to put our first party games on xbox one for at least a year after the series s/x
Fans - How could you, we want next gen experiences
Sony - we believe in generations
Fans - Take our money
Sony - just kidding! Miles Morales, Sackboy, horizon 2, gt7 and god of war 2 are going to be on ps4 too, so up to around 2 years after launch
Fans - that is typical for console generations
Really??? After all they said and all the backlash against MS, now its just fine for Sony to remove more reasons to buy a ps5 knowing that many people bought it specifically for these games, and people just say its expected despite sony never putting out a cross gen title before.
I think its great for consumers and I'm happy with the change, but the vocal fans need to sort out what they are angry about.
Sony can't drop everything on PS5.
That would only feed the scalpers...
You can't even buy a PS5 in stores and there's no end in sight.
They had to adapt their plan to the reality of the current situation.
Sony has more competition now, they can't just leave their player base behind.
I think some folks have blown this quite a bit out of proportion. Like the article stated you have had a decent handful of exclusives already with the biggest one yet just about a week away.
The way I see it, as long as it can run on the system in a respectable manner, by all means put it on both. I was annoyed when Nintendo announced Mario Odyssey was only on switch when the Wii U easily could have run that game but hey business is business and unlike Sony with PS4, Nintendo wanted the world to forget the Wii U ever existed.
Just have patience friends. Generations have only gotten longer over the years you will have plenty of PS5 exclusives before all is said and done.
Sony lied & Sammy cried
I have been a fan of playstation for 20 years and i cannot understand the defenders. That was a blatant lie. Whatever Jim Ryan did, he did wrong and manipulated people.
Going after mobile market? Timed exclusives? Fake release dates to increase console hype? He is doing a good job if you look at it from the share holder's eyes but if you look at it from the gamer's aspect, those are bad bad choices and will definitely have bad impacts on the industry in the long run.
@JJ2 I completely agree. If it's not a fact, it's not anything other than speculation.
Over on EG they ran a headline along the lines of "God of War confirmed for PS4."
It's not confirmed. It's 99% likely that it will happen, but it's not confirmed.
But the headline will generate clicks for EG.
Yes, Sony lied a lot. I felt totally cheated, I bought new hardware, even though I already have a ps4 pro, imagining receiving the big franchises with all the power of the new ps5 hardware and ssd, now I see that they will only be games version "1.5" of the original, as they will have the ps4 hardware anchor.
@get2sammyb Well researched, written and crucially balanced article!
Especially thank you for highlighting the other things Jim Ryan and Herman Hulst have said beyond the "we believe in generations" soundbite that has become a tiresome catch all.
To anyone paying attention none of this is surprising based either on ALL they have said, previous cross-gen behaviour or good business sense.
Of course there will be a few loss leaders that are PS5 only - we've seen some, and we'll see more. But for the majority of games in the first few years will always be cross-gen now that budgets are so high.
Especially the biggest AAA games with astronomical budgets in the hundreds of millions of dollars. A 10-25 million userbase simply isn't big enough to support them. Sony can only back a few of these (and they have) until the numbers increase.
Regardless I do understand the disappointment, it will be wonderful to see just what the top studios could do with a massive AAA budget and PS5 only, and we will, but not quite yet.
I think they lied.
They were having a dig at Microsoft for supporting last gen, and they've done exactly the same.
I think it's good MS and Sony support the previous generation for all sorts of reasons but they were trying to make out that PS5 was going to be better than Series X as the games were "proper" next gen.
PC games can look and play amazing despite needing to scale for older hardware.
@The_New_Butler All of which is absolutely true, but doesn't happen overnight. A bus doesn't turn on a dime. Even Jim Ryan's quote is out of context because it basically summarizes to we believe in generations but ignoring a 100 million console install base is bad business. The only issue to see here is the one that's plaguing everyone these days - people online screaming about nothing.
Basically IMO it boils down to early adopters of PS5 needing to justify their purchase having purchased the weaker console this gen. Hence the clamouring for exclusives which benefit no-one but Sony.
No, no one at Sony said they'd only be delivering PS5 games going forward. They said that they believe in generations, and that PS5 games would not be playable on PS4. They have in fact delivered many PS5 only games (not playable on PS4) already, and there are surely more to come. Many games were in development when a PS5 market was still very theoretical, it makes perfect sense for them to be cross generational. Also, the original vision for a game may have always been possible for PS4 hardware, so there's no reason to make it PS5 only. A title like God of War, as much of a graphical spectacle as it is, already had a seamless semi-open world story with no camera cuts. The SSD isn't necessary for that vision, graphics are easily scaled, and DualSense functionality is worth implementing but not necessary to gameplay. Sony has supported the PS5 with great exclusive software through the first six months, and there's no reason to expect that will change. Having the PS4 along for the ride on some games is just good business, while they work to get those gamers into next gen hardware.
What's annoying is that these games which will be stunning could of been levels ahead if they discarded the old tech. It's time to move on. But now we have to wait 7 years for their next instalments to only fully appreciated this current tech.
We all love PlayStation, but we are also odd people. There was an outcry because Sony said they would close PS Vita, PS3 and PSP Store. Gamers were disappointed that they abandoned those legacy consoles so quickly and now they are trying to show their appreciation to 120 million people buying the PS4. And now they are criticized for that. I am happy they are going to release those games for my PS4. And it will not stop me from buying a PS5 in 2022/3. Go Playstation!
Not sure if Sony "lied" in the strictest definition of the word, but there was definite misleading at several steps along the way, a lot of which the gaming journalism sections of the web took and ran with.
I still think the PS5 was released as an unfinished product so Sony could avoid Microsoft having a year's lead like they did with the Xbox 360, which cost Sony dearly although they eventually caught up by offering a better overall platform and making cheaper and cheaper hardware by cutting out the extra USB ports, PS2 back compat (and charging for "ported" titles as PS Classics) and so on.
I think if it was released November 2021, i.e. before Christmas this year, it would be with far fewer firmware bugs than are still present, a working M.2 SSD slot and probably a more refined cooling design that has better airflow because the one they went with doesn't have great pipe/porting so the rear RAM chips for example are cooking at 95ºc when running a game.
I still think the One/Series consoles have the better dashboard, to be honest. It's fast, easy to navigate, pretty powerful. It's sad it still renders at 1080p and upscales to 4K but I have a feeling part of the reason for that is to maintain interoperability between all Xbox One/Series versions, i.e. they're not having to fork the codebase to have a 4K version for the One S, One X and Series X while sticking with a 1080p version for the base Ones and Series S. Slightly blurrier fonts? Big deal. 😂 Beats having to use the "still laggy after all these years even on a PS4 Pro with an SSD retrofitted" PS4 dash. Nice shade of blue on a 4K TV though.
It was a deliberate attempt to mislead consumers, at Xbox's expense. I remeber people ripping MS when Phil came out and told the truth about generations, now Sony are the same and fanboys have changed their stance on the matter.
It's just good business sense to support a large platform like the PS4 if you have the chance to do it. The growth of the PS5 user base is hampered by the shortage and resulting rampant scalping. It's not like the PS5 needs God of War 2 in order to generate interest in the console, they're selling every unit they're producing. I suppose people could be miffed that the "believing in generations" comment should've meant that PS5 games would be too amazing to be on PS4, but I'm pretty sure Horizon 2 and God of War 2 will be perfectly amazing games, and once PS5 owners get their hands on them, they'll be satisfied with the final product. If anything, I'm hopeful that this could mean 60fps modes for these titles on PS5.
And with games like Demon's Souls and Ratchet and Clank and Returnal, Sony has already run circles around Xbox in terms of providing great next-gen only titles.
@Omniicron The system is 9 months old. What was the true next gen game that came out on PS4? Was it launch? I doubt it. I cannot believe what I think is an incredibly entitled and selfish attitude for what is a MINORITY. I mean, yeah, Sony is gonna say, lets abandon all 110 million people who own a PS4 and only release our tentpole IP's on a new system that only has an install base of 25 million (and that's being generous). WHat are you all expecting?
It actually makes my mind boggle.
At least Sony aren't like the filth over at Nintendo.
The truth is that they knew exactly what they were saying at the time and why they were saying it. Microsoft were getting a tonne of stick for saying that they would be supporting the previous generation. PlayStation said the opposite in order to compound the criticisms of Microsoft's. They wanted people to view the Xbox series negatively, and to view the PlayStation positively. The was the reason for the comment. It was a lie to the consumer that now comes back to bite them, and rightly so...
@The_New_Butler "I don't care about their business decisions, I understand them but often the business choices are not the ones in the best interests of me and/or consumers." So making games available to the 100 million consoles already in people's homes instead of forcing them to purchase a console that is never in stock is...consumer unfriendly? Also, you may not care about the business decisions, but Sony is, in fact, a business.
"The comms team at PS need to get a hold of these execs sharpish." Oh please. Or what? You won't buy a PS5? Seems to be selling just fine without you. Oh, did you already buy one? Great, so you can play all the games coming out in their best version and all the future games that will be exclusive to PS5 too. Where's the reason to be outraged again?
Nothing to see here. Just more whining about nothing.
@Durnford40 Get your finger off the Caps lock mate, reply with a calm argument instead of "shouting" your POV around with capital letters... I wonder who's less of a grown up.
My comment is my opinion, if you disagree with it then discuss it calmly. If you can't keep your anger to yourself, then please seek out professional help.
To everyone saying 'oh we've been lied to!' show me where , in black and white, it said God Of War 2 and Horizion Forbidden West were going to be PS5 only?? Because otherwise , no, you haven't been lied to. Do you feel foolish for inferring something that wasn't actually said? Probably. Do you need to maybe think for yourself for once instead of listening to the echo chamber of a minorty on Twitter or here? Maybe. You'll not be mortally offended at every turn that way.
Not they didn't lie it's business when you have a pandemic that's crippled the infrastructure of TSMC, IBM making chips who also make chips for motor industry, for hospitals etc and the fact that they release a console during one. Means that you can't buy a next gen console or pc part for that matter it's harder to get anything right now. PS5 was due and you either get it out now while you can make consoles or don't and wait 2 more years at best to have chips made for a steady flow of consoles.
Having games come to PS4 a console that may be at its limit but it's in a lot of households more than PS5, so sell software by the millions limit it to the amount of PS5s out there do the math it's not rocket science
"Typical generation transition" says it all. We believe in generation is not a hardline 100% or Only statement. It would be 10 x more dirty if Sony did not support the PS4 at all. I was lucky to get a PS5 at launch but still understand the word transistion. Even more so when everyone who wants a PS5 still can not get one.
I think this is a bit overblown. PS5 is definitely more powerful, but saying that a cross-gen game is being "held back" by the older hardware feels misleading. Not only is the gulf between PS5 and PS4 smaller than between PS4 and PS3, but I seriously doubt that something like Horizon Forbidden West would have ever been designed in a way that's literally impossible to run on PS4.
Now that doesn't mean it'll run well on PS4 when it comes, and I'm sure the load times there will be much worse, but let's not pretend like it's going to be some massively innovative release that could only be realized on next gen hardware. It's another open world action game, and it'll do most of the things that open world action games on the PS4 already do, just shinier and faster.
They lied and misled. They say what people want to hear and the fans support it however they can frame it.
@Grimwood I don’t remember Knack and Killzone Shadow Fall being on the PS3, weird.
If you are talking about 3rd party titles, then yeah, they have done cross-gen for years.
They misled. Hard for me to be mad since I don't have a PS5 anyway but seriously, they misled. If I let you believe something about my intentions, only to do the opposite... uuhhh, that's misleading.
But Ryan's statements were vague enough that the usual 'gang of the obtuse' will defend them so naturally arguments will be had.
@BloodNinja I’d like to think that Sony will release an end of life firmware update to fix the problem but why this even happened in the first place does boggle the mind a bit.
Gamers: Why can’t you make more PS5s available, I’m being left behind on my PS4 😭
Sony: We are going to transition more slowly to new gen by releasing some of our tent pole titles on PS4 too 👍
Gamers: That’s so unfair, you said you believe in generations!!!
I mean, seriously.
These games will be great and more people will get to play them.
At the end of the day it's business. Personally haven't got a problem with it. When you have an install base of millions world wide why wouldn't you still keep making games. Not everyone has a ps5 yet. And Kudos to Sony for not dropping ps4 like a hot potato. The PS5 will truly shine eventually its only a matter of time.
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
-Jim Ryan, May 2020
Lol 😂😂😂 to all of those who bought a PS5 from ebay
"Lie" is a pretty strong word, but if their intention the entire time was to have these first-party games also be developed for PS4 then they definitely mislead everyone.
The argument that supply is low and people can't find a console is a lame excuse. There are more PS5s out there now than there were PS4s at this same point in time.
I understand that there's a lot of PS4s out there, and don't expect Sony to pretend it doesn't exist anymore, but their first-party resources have to move on eventually. There was certainly a lot of PS3s sold by the time PS4 came around.
the way the world has been lack of parts for PS5s I get it! a lie is ott for me.
great for PS4 owners still & I kind of like that they are supporting it for a bit longer.
as a day one PS5 owner, I'm very happy.
@Legacy2K Xbox have ***** games, come back on here when they don't.
@trev666 Where does he say HFW and God of War would be PS5 only?
He doesn't, just a lot of people inferred that from his comments. Selective hearing/reading at it's best.
😒
@Col_McCafferty Lol what’s with that response? I have both current gen consoles. Dial down the attitude my man
No they made a business decision based on current business and trading climates. Ya know, like businesses do to adapt and survive. They don't just make games and consoles for fun to appease spotty faced teenage gamers in their bedrooms.
Entitled gamers eh ?
I'm not even sure why it's even an issue. It's always been this way at the start of a new generation. Games come out on both consoles (if technically possible) until the old one is not popular enough anymore.
the next gen shortage just means that it makes even more sense this time.
Whilst it is nice to have exclusives to justify the purchase of your shiny new console, this isn’t the first time we have seen big titles launch across generations. Nintendo did it with Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild, 2 pretty big games!
Sony equally want a decent return on their software so naturally want to release it on as many platforms as possible, especially whilst stock shortages remain. Sony aren’t having any trouble selling PS5 consoles!
Console wars are just the pits. I don't understand how we got here. PS5 owners fighting with PS4 owners over games. It's just madness. I just want to game. I own a PC, a Switch a PS4 and I sat for a full week never leaving my computer and twitter and finally managed to get a PS5.I'm probably gonna buy a series s when I have the cash.
I don't understand all the toxic gatekeeping that goes on in games. Honestly it's like kids unable to share. 'I can't play it so you can't.' I thought as adults people were supposed to get better, be more empathetic and kinder.
And I expect better from a site like Push Square for fanning this kind of behaviour for clicks. It's truly sad to see.
The problem isnt that ‘oh no, they get to play games’, more so that they’re bringing the PS5 down to PS4 level. If they took a cyberpunk 2077 approach, make it as good as they can and if PS4 can run it or some version of it, or get its own port of it then fine, there’s no problem with that. Technology progresses that way and PS4 users can still get to experience the story or whatever.
But they’re just making PS4 games and slightly improving graphics. In which case why do we need a new generation at all? Perhaps we should just stick with the PS4 forever? I’m being sarcastic, but there’s simply no point upgrading gaming technology if all the games have to run well on 10 year old systems that were technically outdated shortly after their release to begin with. Most PS4 users will upgrade at some point and would probably rather have great next gen games to play when they do rather than a bunch of held back cross play ones that they already got to play.
And nowhere in their marketing did Sony imply that they weren’t going to make use of PS5 technology and features in their first party games. Where is the haptic feedback in most of these games for example? This isn’t cross play. It’s PS4 games with a shiny paint. Which renders the PS5 useless and takes away Sony’s main advantage over rivals which was always its first party titles. At this point a series X and PS4 combo is the best thing for a gamer to have.
Basically PS5 is a cheaply made oversized noisy console that plays last gen games. XBox is clearly better hardware but the first party games on Sony are better. But as long as you can play them on PS4, the PS5 is irrelevant.
Also let’s not pretend Sony cares about the PS4 user base. This is completely a financial decision. They know PS5 owners will buy it and settle for it, while still being able to milk the PS4 base which will remain larger as there is literally no incentive for them to upgrade. PS5 will potentially be the worst Sony generation of all if this doesn’t change soon.
@Justin113 talking complete negative rubbish
I just don't understand this whole 'holding the PS5' back argument. Holding it back from what? 60FPS? 120fps? 4/8K graphics? So aesthetics then, not gameplay.
If that's what you require to enjoy a game, I suggest you go buy a high end gaming pc at around £3000-£4000. This is a site about a console which has always been the cheaper, more affordable way to game. If you want high end PC specs in a £450 console then, yes, you are going to be disappointed and 'next gen' is going to be a letdown.
Gameplay even in PC games hasn't had a massive leap forward, mainly due to scaleability, you don't see PC players losing thier minds? And accusing publishers of lying to them?
This is such a weird argument for the community to be having IMO. And is not a good look on gamers tbh. But then the gaming community at large has never showered itself in glory.
@Iroha no, graphics is the one thing that they can improve upon when porting PS4 games to the PS5.
But the games maps, AI, control scheme etc are all limited to what the PS4 can handle.
Look at Cyberpunk, a game made for high end PCs. It absolutely ruins the PS4.
The aim should be for gaming to move to Cyberpunk high end PC aspirations. PS5 has the technology to do so. But you want us to play PS4 games for the rest of time by the sounds of it. And the cries of PS4 players over cyberpunk is clear that you don’t care if it holds gaming back, as long as it’s good for you.
@Iroha Millions of computers (including mine) can't play the latest games. You have to leave hardware behind in order to progress. PS4 has had its life cycle so it's time for new games to be fully designed from the ground up around using the new available technologies. it's just evolution and it's how it always has been. Go play a NES game of a SNES... oh wait.
@Jimmer-jammer Ifnthey do that, I’ll retract my statement, but in the meantime, my PS4 is in the trash!
I own a ps4 and a ps5,the 60 frames per second is a huge upgrade for all the games that support it and the ps5 controller is the game changer .Sony needs to make a true exclusive for the ps5.
@Lenny0521 Returnal, Ratchet: Rift Apart, Sackboy, Demon Souls all exclusive to the PS5. The console is only 8 months in the wild. What else do you expect. They probably hadn't even confirmed specs/architecture for PS5 by the time HZD or GOW2 started production.
I am absolutely sure there are next gen exlusives on thier way but to expect every game to be PS5 exclusive 8 months into the lifecycle is strange to me. I mean, GOW2 and HFW were always going to be cross-gen. Given when they started production I wouldn't have expected anything else.
Have a little patience.
@Justin113 I don't disagree with you at all but as some other people have mentioned I am sure there are PS5 exclusives in the works. So what if God Of War 2 or Horizon Zero Dawn are not PS5 exclusives and not taking full advantage of the tech right now? Not every new game will. There will be games that follow that will. And you still get stellar single player games to play on both consoles in the meantime. I'm sorry but 'Sony lied to us,' is a complete over-reaction. And this 'all new games should only be on PS5' is just flat out selfish.
As I said previously I own a PS5 and I love it but I haven't played a single PS5 game on it yet. But I am ready for when there are 'next-gen' games that I will want to play and in the meantime, I'm taking advantage of the sweet loading times and graphics and haptic feedback for my PS4 games that I have gotten PS5 upgrades for and my PS4 games that are still PS4 games. Simples.
Sony is going to fully switch over to PS5 at some point and I'm ready for it. It's obviously not soon enough for a lot of you but then again, it feels like half this site is moaning about something or another most days. So different day, same nonsense.
You all get too caught up with these executives and business people. All this pining does “Shawn” and hatred for Jim Ryan. Fact is I’ve never seen this “Shawn” person and have only seen a few pictures of Jim Ryan. Ask PS4 owners how pissed they are that they can’t get a PS5 but can still play GoW and Horizon: Forbidden West.
I guess it’s a bit selfish of me being a PS5 owner and not giving AF but I’m gonna get those games on PS5. Once PS5 out of the early throws they’ll get exclusive games to that console. And even if that doesn’t happen I’m still happy to have a beefed up console with near 0 load times and amped up power and graphics. Oh well...
@Marquez for many gamers “More people getting to enjoy them” is exactly the problem. If you’re a big time PS5 owner you can gloat about how some lowly PS4 owner can’t play Ragnarok or Horizon: Forbidden West. It kind of brings out the stereotypical immaturity of gamers. I see all these posts now from PC gamers gloating about how they have all the big PS games (4 at the moment) and that’s what people live for. They live to be able to hold something over the head of the “others” and make them feel inferior.
@B_Lindz @B_Lindz @B_Lindz Wanted to correct you.. There is No shortage of silicon, there's plenty of sand which is what it comes from, but merely a shortage of chips due to an array of problems, not silicon tho.The real problem is time, not enough factories to meet the more than 10x normal demand, bitcoin miners, scalpers, remote learning, the factory shutdowns during pandemic , graphic card and console releases, fomo buyers,etc. These factories are usually months behind to meet normal demand but the shutdowns have made it over a year ,maybe 2 and will only get worse. Currently , it's at risk of getting worse due to the possible shutdown of the world's largest
chip producer, tsmc,due to a outbreak surge there. Chip shortage seems bad now, but prices will only go up as selection goes down for all smart electronics and cars this year. So demand for new consoles might not be met for another year and half if Intels estimate of 18months is correct because it will take even longer for any new chip factories to be built.
@Justin113 Your ridiculous comment comes off as a kid who's an Xbox fanboy because anyone that's ever owned previous consoles before know that when a new gen console releases, game devs continue to release games on previous gens for many many years. It's nothing new! The Xbox and PS both do it.. Its illogical to say 1 is better when they have similar specs. If anything it's the Xbox that will suffer, as 1 model has a lower spec that game devs will have to lower quality of games for which is never good whilst PS5 for both console versions has the same specs where it matters most.The real tech savy knew the only major benefit to games for this release gen would be faster load times due to the SSD. Neither consoles will live up to the 4k@120 hype as we aren't there yet, not even on PC, it's not worth the fps loss either. Real gamers don't care Abt such ridiculousness, especially not following a major once in a century/years long event resulting in a major chip shortage that has set production of new gen consoles back over a year. If you really are a gamer, you want your fave games to continue being made and that only happens with sales, which means selling on primary user consoles, aka last gen.
@Adidas3590 how am I an Xbox fanboy if I have a PS5? It’s just my opinion, it’s the worst system they’ve launched.
The PS5 has a coil whine issue. I heard weird buzzing over the tv from 6 feet away. The capacitors used are very cheap. Also they’ve used several fans so while some have a really good one, many have noisy ones. There’s a huge difference between models made in Japan and made in China. PS5 is ugly and cheaply made if we’re honest.
But Microsoft have always been technically better than Sony at this. Where Sony win is the games. And if you have a PS4 then the only games here are Astro, Demons Soul and Returnal. Because all the best games are just ps4 games being scaled up slightly. There’s nothing next gen here.
So on this occasion you’re better off with a series X.It’s the better machine, and Sony gave up its biggest weapon in any console war. Or just skip the generation altogether, as you said it’s just faster loading times and all the games are on PS4. Next gen just seems to just be an unnecessary cash grab this time.
@AhmadSumadi that’s really not the problem here. I could care less if you’re poor or whatever.
It’s simply not next generation if the last generation is capable of playing it.
Hitman 3 for example. That is not a next gen game. It’s a PS4 game with shiny graphics on PS5. And we were told next gen games were going to be built from the ground up for these new consoles. We were also told GOT/TLOU2 were the last big games for PS4. That was clearly the intention but Sony decided to milk it for longer.
It isn’t about other people here, it’s about the games not being as good as they should be because they have to work on your ten year old base PS4 that was out of date tech soon after it released.
misleading and false advertisment for sure.
Was looking forward to a big new PS5 Gran Turismo with features/AI/insane weather stuff ... not possible on my PS4. Now, we do get a GT that must be playable on a 7+ years old system. I understand why but what's the point of buying a PS5 with an extraordinary SSD? I want new game experiences! Thanks Insomniac, for making Rift Apart!
This is a really weird complaint from ps5 owners if I'm honest. I mean for the first time in a couple of generations of Sony consoles, you've got a situation where new-gen consoles can play old-gen games, so PS5 owners get to play everything, it's just that some games look and perform a lot better on a PS5 than they do on a PS4.
It's like the people who get all mardy about Sony exclusives going over to PC, except in this case apparently some Sony fans think they're more special than other Sony fans. About time they just grew the hell up
(Btw I'm a ps5 owner, it's just that I don't care one bit that some games are being released on both consoles now. I'd rather that than they just cancel all those games because there aren't enough ps5 owners due to the stock issues)
@3MonthBeef it is far better than the PS4 though.
The problem with next gen isn’t that it’s not better than the last gen. Its simply that it’s shackled if they keep making it so the games have to run on PS4.
It’s like if Nintendo made it so Mario 64 had to run on the Super Nintendo. It would be a different game.
As you said people aren’t using haptic feedback. But if all consoles had it or similar it would be industry standard.
@danlk1ng completely different complaint. People complaining that Sony games go to pc are just being silly. People complaining god of war won’t be as good as it should be because it’s being designed to run on PS4 have a valid issue.
I’d agree with you if it’s just ‘these people playing my games’ but that’s not mine or most people’s concern.
Look at the very few games made for PS5 alone, Astro, ratchet etc... then look at something like Hitman 3 or REVIII. There’s a difference in quality. One is next gen and the others are last gen with a shiny coat of paint.
Until games are made that just won’t run well on a PS4, you have a PS4 pro pro, not a PS5.
@B_Lindz they wouldn’t lose millions by not making first party games on PS4. You’d simply by them when/if you upgraded and you’d have more incentive to do so.
No one was saying the PS4 should die, but traditionally they would only be getting third party ports from now on. But seemingly we’re going to have to put up with subpar games made for decades old tech longer because you weren’t able to get a ps5 yet. But guess what, when you get one you won’t have anything great to play on it so it’s lose lose for all involved.
Imagine where gaming would be if sega and Nintendo had needed all their new games to run on the nes and master system. That’s what you’re asking for.
@Justin113 I kind of get where you and others are coming from. I was pulled in with the hype to a degree but I can't feel as passionate about it as you folks seem to. Maybe its my advancing years!
I mean, how long would it take to make a AAA title that would take full advantage of every PS5 power and capability, that would truly make it non-viable on PS4? 3 years, 4 years? Were their dev kits available 3/4 years ago, even firm specs on the PS5 capabilities?
I don't expect anything truly ground-breaking for another year or so. R&C looks great but as others have said, apart from the rift mechanic it could be done, albeit with lesser graphical fidelity, on PS4. It's not the game you are looking for. These things just take time, always have.
I've had every PS since the first and in my experience, this early into the new generation, the previous gen has still been getting very decent first-party games.
@Tharsman the miles moralis scene where he zips through the pipe seemlessly, back into the street was just as fast on ps4. I felt let down.
@Justin113 I don't think they do have a valid issue personally. They just think they know what they're talking about because they've heard that the new ratchet and clank does stuff that couldn't be done without the ps5's SSD - and that's true. But not every game needs to do that stuff.
Console gamers always act like PC gamers are snobs because they spend so much on their rigs, but PC games manage to cater to an incredibly broad range of setups from the bloody expensive all the way down to the reasonably priced. The expensive end completely knocks the socks off the PS5 at the moment, and yet the Devs still manage to cater to whatever the current "moderately powerful" rig looks like.
At the end of the day the jump between PS4 and ps5 is much more like a jump from one PC to a more powerful one. Gone are the days when Sony talk about the Emotion Engine or the Cell Processor, look at the specs of the PS4 and PS5 and they use exactly the same language as PC specs (AMD Radeon graphics for PS4, zen 2 CPU and rdna2 graphics for ps5), and I can only assume that this has a lot to do with why it's so much easier for ps5 to do PS4 back compatibility than either of the other two generations have managed (PS4 didn't do it - PS3 did initially, but it wasn't so much "compatibilty" as they literally put PS2 hardware in there in addition to PS3 hardware, until they stopped doing that)
So no- PS4 gamers aren't going to be hampering the experience of PS5 gamers- they'll struggle to get anything like a comparable experience themselves, bit that's to be expected
The answer to the title is:
Yes.
@SJBUK it doesn’t have to make use of every aspect of the PS5. Just be beyond the PS4. And we’re already there, look at cyberpunk 2077. They weren’t able to realise that on last gen.
So basically anything as ambitious as that we can’t have anymore and we’re going to be stuck with the last of us 2 as the benchmark for console gaming. Because they simply can’t do any better than that on PS4.
Remember they all said the PS4 was pushed to its limit with GOT and TLOU2. So if it isn’t abandoned then there’s no such thing as next gen gaming really. Just prettier graphics on games that are restricted on memory, AI, weather conditions, map size and generation etc etc...
@danlk1ng you keep talking about snobs and elitism. No one is saying that.
It’s simple. Run cyberpunk on your PS4 and tell me that it’s good. PS4 was never a good console technically and it’s been pushed far beyond what it’s capable of doing and has been exposed. It’s time it was put on the shelf as far as new IPs go. As is the way in every generation of consoles.
Games like Gran Tourismo could be far superior without being held back by 7 year hardware. If you don’t want next gen games fine, go back to your PS4 pro or whatever but stop putting words in peoples mouths and looking down on others. The only one talking about snobbery is you.
@Justin113 That all sounds great, except again, "the PS4 is holding back ps5 games" isn't a verified fact, it's just your assumption. Sure, it'd hold back the new ratchet and clank with all its SSD wizardry, but that isn't releasing on PS4 for that very reason - but for some IPs maybe it isn't crucial to load new scenes in such a small amount of time, so maybe ps5 users get to benefit from super fast loading times while PS4 users just have to bear with their hard drives. And maybe for some games, the main (unrelated to SSD) difference between PS4 and PS5 is simply frame rate, resolution, ray tracing and haptic feedback/adaptive triggers. Ray tracing alone is a huge difference in terms of the processing power it requires.
And you're right that cyberpunk isn't really suitable for PS4. But cyberpunk is a behemoth of an open world game, not all games are going to try and do the same things that cyberpunk tries to do. "Games like cyberpunk shouldn't try to run on PS4" is a completely different statement to "new IPs should never touch the PS4"
The day a dev for a cross-gen game says "we wanted to make this game much better for the PS5 but the PS4 version held it back", I'll take it as a valid complaint. Until then, I'm going to stick with my theory that all the gamers complaining about this are making assumptions that might not be based on fact
@Justin113 I'm really not sure what you're asking for has ever been done. No sane Developer is going to ignore millions of potential customers.
Few devs are going to make games on PCs that only target a fraction of the user base with ultra-high end graphics cards, CPUs and 32Gb of memory. Not when they can create a game engine that scales. I'm not sure why you think consoles would be any different.
PS5 is a PC in a small(ish) box with some nice bells and whistles. Going forward we're going to see more multi-platform games, not less. I don't think this is a bad thing.
Sony didn't lie or mislead. This definitely is not a typical generation transition. There probably will never be a "typical" console generation ever again. The poll options don't include this.
It seems really silly that people feel betrayed that GT7, Ragnarok, and the new Horizon Forbidden West games are cross-gen rather than PS5 exclusive.
I'm more offended that I can't buy a PS5 at normal retail prices. I can only buy through a scalper with a giant markup.
I was lucky enough to get a Playstation 5 the day it released and lets be honest this happens every time the next generation comes out, they cross gen the games so nobody misses out and to be honest it does not really bother me because I know that people are going to get to enjoy these amazing games. Would it look better if it wasn’t released on ps4 as well...sure it would but to be honest Id rather the game not look as good and know that fellow gamers get to enjoy stuff the same. And thats what its all about everyone being treated equally no matter the size of their wallet and honestly in this world its surprising. Im just grateful I actually got a PS5 I can’t understand why people complain even though they was lucky enough to actually get one
The first lie is already on the box, 8K ? VRR, ALLM, expandable memory, cheap construction and indeed that whistle, I sent it back after 14 days.
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