While we’re all very familiar with the console market as it is, we can comfortably assume that one day it will change. Brands like PlayStation and Xbox are, slowly but surely, becoming hardware agnostic – we’ve already seen a handful of first-party Sony exclusives release on PC, and the manufacturer has insisted that more will follow. And speaking as part of a candid interview about his career with GamesIndustry.biz, bigwig Jim Ryan suggested that he’s already thinking about a world where Sony’s games aren’t gated by the consoles they’re available on.
“I’d like to see a world where the games that we make at PlayStation can be enjoyed by many, many tens of million – perhaps hundreds of millions of people,” he admitted. “Right now, with the existing console model, a really great PlayStation hit, you’re talking 10 or 20 million people able to play that game. And if you compare that to music and movies, they can be enjoyed by almost limitless audiences. I think some of the art our studios are making is some of the finest entertainment in the world, and to gate the audience frustrates me. I’d love to see a world where hundreds of millions of people can enjoy those games.”
Of course, Ryan is not suggesting that Sony is going to rip up the established console rulebook overnight – this is long-term thinking from the executive. Earlier in the interview he observed how the games industry has grown since the release of the PS1, and explained how gaming has become ubiquitous in popular culture. He also noted that the market is growing each year, as both age and geographic demographics widen. Exactly how PlayStation will reach the hundreds of millions that Ryan is referring to remains to be seen, but it’s clear that the Japanese giant has half an eye outside of its own console’s walls.
[source youtube.com]
Comments 103
I don't have a problem with that. I just like the fact that games work on consoles. It's the convenience that attracts me. Well, that and trophies 😁
Said for ages that PS will eventually become a storefront or an OS. Stick a proprietary Sony USB in and access the games that way.
Yea. It's called free 2 play garbage, gta5 or Mario kart lol
Meaning streaming so we can nickle and dime you and you never oen anything. The second this happens im off the PS brand.
I'm seeing this not ending well when we're deep into the comments section. Anyway, as long as I can still play the games I don't care. More people playing these games negatively effects no one.
Ok..here we go...this is where it begins. Remember this day when Sony gave its first incling about all it's IPs spreading their roots beyond the PlayStation platform and into the internet. It was inevitable. Every sci-fi film I've ever watched has taught me that streaming will usurp all other forms of content delivery.
I can't wait for Elon Musk's chip in my head so I can get it over and done with.....don't worry Ellie, I'll fill the Joel-shaped hole in your life, you don't need to be sad any longer my child...
im guessing this means ps games on xbox, which being a ps fan boy id struggle seeing but i think it is whats best for the industry i think exclusives are great but there needs to be more eyes on games like the last of us 2 and ghost of tsushima and so on.
I'm a playstation fan because they moved the industry and my favorite hobby (gaming) leaps and bounds forward..Being revolutionary doesn't mean max profits or mainstream huge audience.
This is the future. This has been inevitable for years but it’s always come down to when it actually happens.
And so the comments begin LMAO!
Jim Ryan is obviously a good business person. But he is terrible at interviews and saying the wrong things lol
@AhmadSumadi spoiler alert!! I didn't know that would happen!
@TurboTom I thought the interview was very good to be honest.
Remember when Herman Hulst said not all PS exclusives will release on PC? Remember when Phil Spencer said not all Xbox exclusives will release on PC? It was obvious unfortunately.
@Flaming_Kaiser where would you go to NOT experience that? I'd love to hear about it 😁
@get2sammyb
I didn't watch the interview to be honest, I guess I should really before making a comment 😂
It's ok. As long as I can buy a console for half as much as a decent PC, I'm good. Also, I hate the hassle of PC gaming so as long as there are consoles available, I'll stick with them.
@Flaming_Kaiser I agree. There's a reason why PlayStation is so beloved, because the best exclusives are found only on PlayStation. If you take that away then it's lost it's biggest draw. PlayStation has so lost it's identity, they are such a shadow of what they once were. This Sony is not the Sony most people fell in love with.
@Snake_V5 that won't be happening anytime soon. Sony have spent a lot of money building up 1st parry studios to bolster their already incredible exclusives.
@Snake_V5 and yet they are more successful they have ever been, funny how that works.
@Integrity Not so hard just start playing retro.
I wouldn't mind at all. The exclusivity war that's going on at the moment isn't good for gamers.
@Snake_V5 I dont mind it if games are going to PC after a few years but what is the use of getting their games on other platforms. Its not like their digital store policies are that great so that a big no no.
@Rjak Yeah the all platforms approuch is so great broken messes of games, liveservice, unoptimised games, copy and paste yeah thats what we want.
One day we will all be one bunch of gamers together playing games from all studios being streamed to our TVs and devices.
Microsoft of course are just moving a bit faster than Sony and Nintendo because they have the money and servers etc.
I guess then instead of console wars we will have to move onto software wars 😂
@Flaming_Kaiser ahh gotcha 👌
bit torn on this, as i think exclusivity sells, and it keeps the gaming market from being too homogenized in a sense - but also console war culture seems archaic these days.
what i'm NOT torn on is that i really, really hate all this talk seemingly leading to streaming over outright hardware. that sucks. there's a space for it, sure, but it definitely feels as if that'll be the norm some years ahead as opposed to a less.... dedicated option.
Put the games on PC. SONY's IPs are perfect for PC... Plus they can do Stunning graphics, and dark themes.
SpiderMan, GT, Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 will sell like crazy on Steam.
You still will sell tons of consoles because not everyone dropping money on a PC or dealing with Windows hick-ups. They will just keep getting a console.
It is Win, Win.
@Integrity Exactly. What games company will stick with non streaming? I don't want to stream games I'd rather console but there will prob be a big push starting with Xbox prioritising Xbox chipsets for virtual console gating. So we'll be buying access to a console that's not ours over the internet. I cannot fathom buying a digital game for play on a virtual console online.
This is nothing new. PSNOW and port of PS4 games already demonstrate what he’s saying.
I’d advise people to watch the full interview instead of demonising the man again or pretend ‘oh bu he no gameeerr ‘.😅
I think he sounds quite genuine and an honest man.
Obviously, streaming games to circumvent the need for hardware has always been the end game. It’s never been a question if it will happen, but when. The tech still has far to much latency and ISP providers prices and/or data caps are still an obstacle.
Personally, once I no longer have the ability to at least play games on local hardware is the day I’m done with video games. You don’t buy physical media for PC but at least it’s still on local hardware. Streaming from cloud = no ownership whatsoever.
@Snake_V5 No company these days is the one we fell in love with.
@KayOL77 yeah. I'm sure there will still be a tradition way to play Sony games when the time comes but there's no way they can ignore streaming as a revenue stream longterm. At least they'll be more determined to maintain there console heritage and focus on what makes Sony 1st party games special. For example many MS 1st party output is full of MTs including single player games.
@Squanch here here.
@TurboTom
More like the media are terrible at focusing on seemingly controversial bits instead of giving the real context of a quite personal interview.
Would love more PC ports please.
We already know Sony is following Microsoft's foot steps when it comes to PC so not really new news. Maybe in 2-3 years Sony will take the final step and release the games across platforms on the same date.
And here we go again. Now you'll have every media outlet and fanboy podcasts saying that Sony is putting everything on PC and other consoles. In the end this is just PR talk to masturbate crowd dreams, Sony is not putting a storefront with their games on PC much less releasing games day and date with PC. If anything they will strengthen their cloud infrastructure to support PS5 games worldwide in the future.
I just want uncensored animé tiddies but I'll need a pc or switch for that lol
@AhmadSumadi it will annoy nobody except from gatekeepers
@KayOL77 where where? 😁
@oconnoclast games don't need to saturate the market as much as films. They make far more money for the same outlay.
The writing is on the wall. I just hope if/when they go to a streaming platform in the near or distant future, physical discs are still an option.
I like to own the stuff I buy. Netflix of gaming doesn't sound too appealing to me. My bet is GamePass is gonna devolve into a live service/microtransaction extravaganza to fund the service. Kind of what we see in free mobile games. They gotta make the money somewhere. Maybe not to that degree, but in the ballpark.
The balance between gaming platforms has become too lopsided in favour of PCs now, which ultimately benefits Microsoft.
Exclusives were the one thing PlayStation had that could draw people to its platform but their flirting around the ideas of going multiplatform to reach new gamers basically signals that exclusives were never going to be designed to fully utilise the bespoke console hardware in the first place.
Nintendo continues to thrive because people know their console is the only place to play their games and have a dedicated and loyal fanbase gladly willing to pay full price to experience them despite their price gouging and woefully underpowered hardware.
It's lucky for Sony that the PC GPU situation is a hot mess right now because I don't see how they will attract the enthusiast and hardcore gamers to their console if it has nothing unique to offer anymore.
@Nyne11Tyme
What point are you trying to make? Neither of those games are free to play...
Then stop selling consoles and sell PCs 🤷♂️
Sony buys ms..
..or nintendo..
..or nintendo buys someone..
..or ms buys someone..
SOMEONES GONNA BUY SOMEONE!!
@Flaming_Kaiser I agree with you, if it's streaming then I'm out. But if it's means Sony going multiplatform then I'm in. Just release all of their game on Steam, I'm sure it will sell well, Xbox's game are also constantly on the Top Sellers list, imagine Sony's behemoth like God of War & Marvel's Spider Man.
@oconnoclast then you are also comparing apples and oranges because you're saying value for money will stop games from reaching the size of audience films do. How can you compare films which follow a similar template no matter the producer, they almost all last for a very narrow runtime window of between 90 minutes and 3 hours, where as games can last a couple of hours or years!
And the genres in games are far more important than films in determining how long they'll last. You could just as easily play a simple, massively popular game like Farmville for years or a huge budget narrative game for 20 hours.
Trying to compare value for money found in gaming with that found in films is not feasible. And anyway there are plenty of games that have reached a bigger audience than films. Plus people don't watch that same film every day for weeks, months, years.
The comparison your making is problematic. People don't consume films and games the same way.
I have many thought on this.
But let's stick to just one. Why are classic PS titles still gated behind outdated hardware?
Either bring your legacy titles forward or make them available on PC. That would go a long way to remove barriers to playing Sony titles.
Literally out of PlayStation fan’s hands and straight into anyone else’s regardless of them owning a PlayStation console or not. Wow.
It seems Jim Ryan and Sony want to do what Microsoft has been doing with Xbox by trying to get as many people to access the games and online service regardless of them owning a console or not. It does makes business sense for Sony as they stand to make a lot of money doing this.
@Icey664 that the philosophy (outside of cloud gaming on every electronic device) of having 100 million people play your game is either free 2 play or an anomaly like gta5 or mk8 lol
@JJ2
Yeah that is true, I guess that is what I was meaning that he needs to be careful with what he says. The media always blow things out of proportion. I did watch the interview and Yeah I did think it was good actually, so my bad for not watching it first.
another fluff piece. if he means streaming then sure. nothing new. he should get his act together and improve/market ps now if he wants to get his software out to more people. not much else to say about that really.
I guess it’s time to throw away everything that made Sony successful in the first place.
Get ready for Ubisoft quality across the board, mediocrity as far as the eye can see.
@OmegaStriver If anything this would make them even more successful, branching out to a much larger audience. Sure they’ll be a very small minority of Ponies who’ll turn their back’s on Sony but in turn they would gain many more consumers to their ecosystem.
There are some CRAZY views in the comments.
Streaming isn’t going to replace consoles anytime soon. It can and will add another cheaper tier for people who don’t want to pay for a console box. This is a good thing! Open the industry up to an even larger audience, which in turn will bring in more money for games, studios and hardware R&D.
Personally for me I want MORE people to experience they games I love not less. I get this is always a contentious point for some, but I don’t mind some games going to PC or other platforms in due course. In fact personally it would be preferable PC is the better platform for long term game preservation. That doesn’t mean day and date releases.
However there’s talk of this being the death of PlayStation here. Haha, lol… No! Does anybody REALLY think Sony are going to stab themselves in the foot and ruin all the goodwill, mindshare, brand loyalty they have built up? PlayStation is their golden goose, and they will do everything to make it go from strength to strength. Things change with time too.
@oconnoclast why are you being rude? I won't be speaking to you any more. You're not mature enough to have a debate. Goodbye.
What do people care if PC players or people streaming can play PS games? There will always be a $500 box for you to play on that's far cheaper and easier to use. Do you people get mad at those who drive nicer cars than you too? In the end it'll all help Sony make better games.
Unlike music or movie, games, especially AAA games, need a good hardware, sony can't just make an app and have people playing sony games on tv or phone (without using streaming/psnow).
The only way to get games with hundred million users is by making phone gatcha games on ios/android. Or stop selling console altogether and become 3rd party publisher.
So in other words, should Sony continue to allow Jim Ryan to run PlayStation into the ground, we can expect that Sony will move out of hardware and into a streaming exclusive future, with a possible PC launcher for good measure. And that's all that will be left of the brand as we know it.
How many times? How many times do you have to see what an utter disaster this man is for PlayStation before you become convinced? #FireJimRyan.
@PhhhCough "Sony buys MS"
Sony is worth $90b, Microsoft $1937b
It is far more likely to be the other way round if it every happens (MS did try to buy Nintendo many years ago)
Any merger/takeover of any of the 3 big players is unlikely to be allowed due to competition law anyway.
@themightyant Exactly my thoughts.
As long as there's an audience for consoles they won't go anywhere. Introducing additional tiers of entry won't kill consoles either, it just opens the games up to wider audiences.
They're not talking about putting games on xbox here, they're just making the same point that they made a few months ago when those presentation slides released showing consoles as the core, but with other delivery methods spreading out from there.
I get that change scares people, but consoles will be around for as long as we want them. There's nothing to fear here.
"The PlayStation 5 is popular for one reason - the exclusives."
"It would be great if there were no exclusives."
Not sure there is a clear vision at PlayStation.
@Flaming_Kaiser that depends on the developer. And I'd rather play a buggy game than not being and to play at all
@KippDynamite Yeah, he contradicts himself often, either in the same interview or later down the road. Not hating, just stating a fact.
Also, just because games only sell 10-20 million copies if they are very successful doesn't mean that a lot more people can't play them. A large percentage of each console's sales technically can play a game (minus some people buying multiple consoles for one reason or another), so even now plenty more people than that can play a PS5 game and it will only grow substantially over time (especially when the shortages finally end).
Also, like I've seen mentioned by at least one person in the comments, their whole catalog wouldn't be anywhere near as gated if they didn't ignore backwards compatibility for so long. PS1-PS3 is severely gated only because of that instead of well over 100 million people being able to play games from every generation.
@Integrity Ellie needs a wider audience. Any company that doesn’t think outside the console will be “Left Behind”
@Integrity ahhh, so that's how R2D2 delivered Princess Leia's message to Obi-Wan Kenobi - through streaming! That's very prescient of Star Wars to warn us that streaming will usurp all other forms of content delivery...
Sounds like this idiot wants to eventually have all Playstation games on every console. This dude really thinks people would just stay with Playstation if they didn't have these exclusives, haha. This guy sees nothing but dollar signs. Hell almost every single PS studio is working on a MP game. This dude is changing and ruining the culture with gaming on PS right in front of our eyes.
It just sounds like he wants to make more money for Sony, business sense wise that just makes sense.
I just dont buy it that it comes off sincere and genuine.
This has always been the end goal for any publisher trying to reach broader horizons.
@Ken_Kaniff They keep putting their games quicker and quicker on PC and I’m going to make the jump.
It sounds like Sony wants out of hardware and work solely on software.
Well then enable cross play lol! Stop making exclusives, make them all 3rd party games lol. This sounds like PR pie in the sky.
@Shepherd_Tallon “I get that change scares people, but consoles will be around for as long as we want them. There's nothing to fear here.” THIS 100%
It reminds me of all the people complaining about the Epic store who have such short memories. NO ONE wanted Steam when it thrust upon us with Half Life 2. There was a huge outcry… look at us now.
And the people that are worried big players like Apple, Google, Netflix etc. (KFC lol) will change gaming. I remember Sony and Microsoft doing exactly the same during the Sega and Nintendo era… look at us now.
I get it, change IS scary, but also presents opportunity. There will always be business where there is enough demand and that includes consoles.
Yeah... well, you can't have both. You can widen the market but then you shrink console sales.
Choose. Either you want to sell hardware or software.
Btw i am starting to believe this guy is gonna run Sony to the ground by taking for granted what they already achieved.
He needs to be replaced asap.
@OmegaStriver Yea Jim "the idiot" Ryan is slowly ruining Playstation. Give it a few more years and everyone on this site will start to finally believe it.
Just release all PlayStation games day and date with PC. Expands the PS brand's reach and doesn't harm console exclusivity.
Considering his long term vision sounds a lot like Microsoft's, and Microsoft's is rooted in the idea that Facebook, Apple, Google, Tencent will force that world, I actually support his vision for once.
But. I can't see him dropping the profitability of overpriced plastic computers. It's Sonys DNA. And his idea of pricing games at ever rising premiums is a lead anchor to the idea of leaving the walled garden. He needs to pick a direction. High priced designer luxury goods, or ubiquitous availability to everyone. His pricing abacus is sliding in the wrong direction for his vision.
@Ken_Kaniff I agree with you on Jim "Matrick" Ryan... BUT, his idea of Sony as a multiplat isn't new. Other PS execs didn't see Xbox as a competitor originally and wanted to publish their games on it back when it first launched next to PS2. It was proud Kutaragi that flipped his lid on hearing that and refused to do it. In that sense, Sony going multiplat is an idea that internally goes back to the early days of ps. If Kutaragi hasn't had his way, people would have been playing Sony games on Xbox and probably PC and Nintendo for 20 years already....
Jim's still an idiot, though, no question.
Some people are deluded or obviously trolling if they think PlayStation will push PC first like Microsoft is doing.
More evidence suggesting the Xbox approach to PC (same day release) but the purchase of Nixxes made this pretty obvious anyway.
@NEStalgia "He needs to pick a direction. High priced designer luxury goods, or ubiquitous availability to everyone."
WHY? When we can have both.
Consoles for those who want the highest fidelity, lowest latency, 'ownership' of games and hardware etc.
Streaming for those who don't care about the technical aspects and are happy with 1080p streams and lower costs. + Mobile options.
It does not have to be either/or.
As long as I can play games, I really don't care how they are played. Brand drama is boring, fun is fun.
@themightyant Again I agree.
New delivery methods don't have to be detrimental to the existing market "pie" as it were. They can exist alongside and supplement each other.
If anything, having additional delivery methods will just make the pie bigger and bring new demographics to the medium.
Back at the start of last gen, when mobile gaming was absolutely going to kill consoles, in the end all that happened was the creation of a new market of mobile gamers existing alongside console and PC.
Even now with everything that's happening (pandemic, chip shortages, gamepass) consoles are selling like hotcakes.
Series X/S is the fastest selling XBOX, and PS5 is selling faster than PS4.
If we want consoles, they'll make consoles. All is well.
@Shepherd_Tallon 100% agreed! Why can I only like this once?
There will always be doom and gloom naysayers and we're all resistant to change to an extent. But the figures don't lie. Console gaming is in rude health.
But what Sony, Microsoft and others are trying to figure out is how to increase the size of the whole console pie, not take anything away, only expand.
The metric that i've seen passed around that Jim Ryan and Phil Spencer are trying to change is that CONSOLE gaming has basically been around 250 million people, give or take, for several decades. It hasn't actually changed much since the 90s. (David Jaffe was talking about this yesterday, but i've seen it posted elsewhere for years)
Mobile or streaming or other new technologies hasn't made that smaller but equally they haven't actually got bigger (in terms of core users), only made those 250 million more invested, more likely to own multiple devices and crucially spend more.
I hope console gaming can expand beyond this ceiling, Good luck to them
@themightyant That's it.
Sean Layden was talking about this recently too. It was something along the lines of how roughly the same number of people play on consoles now as did in the 90s, the only difference is that today's players are more invested and they spend more money.
So how do we expand that market beyond the home console?
That's the question being asked here.
@Shepherd_Tallon STOP! This is the internet and you're talking too much sense
I truly hate to be cynical, but I'm unconvinced that his true intentions are to bring enjoyment and happiness to as many people to possible...
@oconnoclast But in terms of time games are more akin to TV than movies. You look at how long it is to watch just one whole series of TV.
10 episodes of 45 mins is 7.5 hours.
24 episodes is 18 hours.
To watch the entirety of a TV show takes
People ARE willing to put in the time, if the content is to their liking.
Regardless it's my personal opinion that many games have become far too long and bloated and could do with scaling back for a better more focused experience. Less is often more.
@Rjak I rather play quality if its a mess a dumpsterfire i then i wont reward the developer. A physical release that wont work of the disc without a patch is something they can shove where the sun dont shine. And that with people like you is why we get stuff like Cyberpunk thanks for that. 😉👍
@NEStalgia Ill rather pay then have 3rd party quality that is subpar for 95% of the games.
@NeoTokyo404 He's a business and finance man. His job is to market products to sell games, boxes, dlc, mtx and ultimately make more money and positive mindshare for Sony.
But how does he do this? By bringing enjoyment and happiness to as many people to possible... same as any high level exec.
@SirCroconut Multiplatform then im out to that will mean a massive decrease in quality why woild i even waste my money on their games then. Multiplatform is less time for quality control so then there is always Nintendo left.
@themightyant The higherup are always there for the gamers. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He is a guy with no passion for gaming i never agreed but i see it now he is poison to Playstation brand.
Those fantastic mobile games where i didnt even notice he was playing but i thought he was using a trailer. Where the big engagement is that he was touching his screen.... Lets not forget that mobile gaming made abusing people with addiction big they spend seminars on abusing people. Its shocking how they talk about taking advantage of addicted people.
@oconnoclast I personally agree with you on shorter games. I just played Kena and personally thought it was a PERFECT length. Not too short, not too long. But importantly didn't outstay it's welcome or let it's mechanics grow stale over time. I applaud that. That is was cheaper was just a bonus.
Too many games nowadays have you doing exactly the same thing hundreds of times. It's tiresome to me. Yet I also accept many people like doing those things dozens or hundreds of times (I do sometimes), and others want more perceived value, or length, in their games. It isn't one size fits all and there's enough room for different options.
But I agree there is a worrying trend that longer = better that I strongly disagree with.
I'm with Shawn Layden and others in wanting a return to SOME more bitesized experiences, and I think we will get back to them soon, but we'll also get many of the longer ones too. Again there is room for both, and everything in between.
I understand your point that sometimes TV shows length is spread over years, but only for those watching from the start. Many catch up later and binge watch in days/weeks. I did for most on this list. Though I also struggle with the length of some series and haven't watched all of them for that same reason... I'd still recommend The Wire though
Circling back around, Jim Ryan's whole point of expanding that 20 million player soft cap was by opening up gaming to other groups. It is that 110 million PlayStations that is the barrier more than time. Take that barrier away and have for example a game streaming model straight to TV for people who don't want to outlay £450/$500 on a console. You open up the market to many other potential customers. I think this would actively help encourage more smaller and focused games to be developed too as a side benefit.
Those of us that still want to pay a premium for high fidelity, frame rates etc will continue to buy consoles. There's room for many models here, and I applaud Sony and Jim Ryan for looking into embracing that.
@themightyant I don't think the push to new markets translates to "cheap lo-fi streaming subs for the masses." He's already selling that. And it even offers "hi-fi" local play to console owners for the same low price. I don't think he's talking about the service he already sells or just throwing more new games on it. If he thought Now were the future he'd be saying that and investing in it. I think he's talking about a much more disruptive change to the market, either via streaming becoming universal (where lo-fi for the masses isn't really the goal, it's hifi streaming as the main/only method, but then nobody that didn't buy $500 consoles is then going to start buying $80 games)
We have no idea what models he has in mind, but what you're describing is what Now and GP are already doing, in fact they do more, so it's a safe bet it's bolder change than that.
Right now the internet infrastructure is a long way from universal streaming. If you have great internet, it actually works so well, I'm not sure "latency" matters for all but a really hardcore niche with how well it works. But I don't think that kind of universal streaming will ever be truly viable for the entire market. But there's more than streaming. There's mobile, etc.
But there's one thing that's certain. If he's looking to significantly grow the market, ever more premium pricing does the opposite of that, it makes gaming ever more exclusive. TBH, if I weren't already a gamer, didn't already have "value" from a huge backlog, and wasn't looking at MS, Apple, and didn't know about Now, and was just looking at Playstation....Id' look at those prices, decide gaming is for rich people, and move on to something else. $570 just to get STARTED, and another $70 for each new thing you want to experience? That's not pricing for the plebeians. It's not even something worth considering for the plebeians. Meanwhile Apple made more on gaming than MS/PS/Nin combined. And all they do is skim off the store for a bunch of "free" and cheap content. Sure, Apple has a larger install base because they sell multipurpose devices used for daily life. But why did people buy so much gaming content on that device? Because it was no risk. It was free/cheap/tiny spends. It was there. If Candy Crush cost $70 to start, it would have been dead in a few months.
I'm certain Jim knows this. I loathe the man, but he could smell a penny on a rotting corpse and figure out how to make it two. He's bilking us today, but he must know the future of the huge mass market isn't going to bite at premium pricing. If you can't convince the $1000 iPhone crowd to buy a $70 game, good luck with crowd that won't buy a $500 console. We're a captive audience that's easy to extort. The mass market isn't.
Streaming, non-streaming, doesn't matter. The real argument is "cheap vs expensive gaming." Cheap grows the market. Expensive gaming is limited to the people who are already interested, and a slight halo market to grow into. Driving prices up can not grow the market. There can be slight growth there in convincing more people to buy in, but you're limited to a certain market segment just by price alone. And if the COD/Fifa/Fortnite/
GTFOGTAO market wasn't largely willing to buy a $500 console to play their favorite game or two on, without buying a lot of other software, console sales would look a lot less exciting than they do. But ultimately Jim wants to sell software more than hardware. And that's one of the rare times I agree with him, that's where the focus should be. But $60 wasn't exactly doing growth any favors. $70 halts it. And I'm sure he's twiddling his thumbs waiting for $80..... once you start pushing up against triple digits to buy a video game, that game had better be a platform experience where one game can last you years. Which, once again, does the opposite of grow the market.Milking the status quo is one option. Growth is another option. The latter is not compatible with rising prices, and if price competition occurs in a serious manner, the former becomes unavailable. No matter how hardcore most of us are, must of us would also buy into a model that offers better value if it existed. Am I ever going to care about 8k gaming? Let's get 4k working right with max fidelity first. Heck, let's get 1080p and DLSS upscaling there. Which really eliminates the "lo-fi streaming" baseline, casuals or not.
@Flaming_Kaiser Which is why you're already in this part of the market, of course. And you're pretty dedicated to physical/tradition etc.
But if the much larger market felt the same, Apple wouldn't be the one pulling in the cash from F2P, Steam wouldn't have taken over PC, etc. etc.
To me, the pricing equation doesn't mean turning games into cheap garbage (but, then, I don't run EA or Ubisoft... ), it means changing how it's monetized. The money model is the problem right now. It's tied to the 1980s. Digital games are overpriced because they can't compete in price against physical and tick off the retailers. Remember, in a world where only physical exists, Sony makes pennies on the dollar for every game sold, Walmart, Amazon, etc get the bulk of that profit. And THEN they go to resale where more people play them and Sony gets nada.
That model is a big reason for rising prices, the rise of DLC, mtx, the rise of day-1 included DLC. Remember the PS3 era when prices went from $50 to $60? The reason was BD discs and used games. Then day-1 patches started, and a big purpose back then was to track actual users vs sales because of used games. Then we got day 1 DLC which was largely to have content that cancelled out on activation so upon resale it would have to be bought again, generating revenue.
Right now that physical model ends up milking the early buyers, to pay for the later buyers, while keeping digital ridiculously overpriced. And then predatory retailers like GameStop pocket the savings for the secondary buyers too.
The monetization model is definitely broken in traditional gaming. Whoever really moves the market to a better model that lowers costs for legit buyers, and spreads the costs around the player base wins a larger market, in the end.
.....But we're talking about Jim. He'll probably just turn games into mtx-riddled garbage, because "Hey, it worked for Apple!"
@oconnoclast “A console isn’t really that much in the grand scheme of things”
Not to us enthusiasts who play a lot. But to those who only want to play occasionally it can be. My sister likes gaming occasionally but still plays on her PS1 mini and Wii as she doesn’t want to drop £300-£450 on a box she rarely uses.
Final fantasy on mobile is a bad example, it has a high barrier to entry (it’s why they’re making a FF mobile combat game by the way to become relevant with the young and in that space)
Look at the playerbase of mobile games like
pokemon Go - 1 billion players
Pubg mobile - 1 billion players
Or for something more recent and relevant, something like Genshin Impact - a AAA console like experience that launched simultaneously on console, PC and mobile - around 60+ million players. Yes these are all F2P model, this is something everyone is trying to solve, something between.
Cloud streaming on Xbox is just getting started, it’s still really in Beta with the enthusiasts. They still haven’t released a Streaming only option and included as an app in tv’s give it 5 more years.
THESE are the sort of long term things Ryan, and Spencer etc are thinking about. Not next year or the year after but 5 years hence
@Squanch I've always said, that health permitted, I will be playing videogames into my 60's-70's. But this (streaming-only games) would definitely bring a much sooner end to me as a gamer.
@NEStalgia The system is stupid anyway never understood why people who wait for a complete edition get a discount it should be the other way around.
Ill stay physical as long as its possible and ill fo retro when its gone. I wont be able to keep up anyway.
I would gladly pay the tenner people complain about that see a Ubisoft game as cheap version. With no resale value is never complete and even broken on release with a lot of there releases.
@Flaming_Kaiser Absolutely agree, you'd think they'd incentivize early purchases with discounts, but I guess they found it more profitable to milk the impatient, who will pay no matter what, for everything they're worth, then make it cheaper later. The downside is it makes the early supporters the foolish ones for just throwing money away and proving that's the most profitable way to operate...but as long as enough people do that, I guess it'll never work in a sane way.
I miss in the US when Amazon and Best Buy had 20% off preorders. I bought so much stuff on launch day back then....
I was physical die-hard for such a long time. Thought I always would be. But I've actually migrated to digital. But, man, Sony is making that so difficult. MS and PC make it preferable. Nintendo is a wash, they milk you either way.... But Sony seems bent on making it the most expensive option with the least rights!
Ubisoft is a shame. They make good games. They used to make great games. The talent and creativity is still there, hiding. But they have changed to just chase fad after fad, usually arriving 4 years too late to actually cash in on the fad they compromised integrity to chase, and it ends up looking budget. When they do get it right (Mario + Rabbids, Fenyx, some others), they get it really right. There's occasional flashes of inspiration but their focus-tested fad chasing ensures its rare. I still hope that someday they can recover their creativity and ditch the fads. They could be great again. EA seems like they're finally realizing that, at least. They used to be great...then they were the worst. I'd like to see them be great again. So far, at least they're talking the talk.
@NEStalgia I have to be honest i only buy RPG's i really want day one and firstparty.
The rest like Ubisoft games are best to buy two / three months later with the major bugs removed and with a massive discount. I would buy a lot of complete editions of Ubisoft the have nice games but you are never finished. Child of Light a physical digital release.... 😒
There are quite little releases i buy day one. I bought a GTA 4 on PS3 which i hated the same for the first RDR dont get me wrong quality games but i dont like them the last one i loved was Vice City and Manhunt .
COD i buy every 3 games i what do they make besides COD now?
EA always on discount or not bothered, dont buy any sports games. The Coöp games get a physical release but their other cool indies not im not getting it.
I'd be happy if console companies stop buying timed exclusives.
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