As platform holders intensify the importance of subscription services, Oddworld Inhabitants bigwig Lorne Lanning has described his company’s PS Plus deal as “devastating”. The industry veteran – whose company launched Oddworld: Soulstorm into Sony’s sub on the PS5 – was speaking candidly as part of an Xbox podcast, and while he clarified that PlayStation was not to blame, he’s clearly dissatisfied with the way things unfolded for his team’s game.
In the meandering interview, he explains that the developer was in need of financial support in order to get its Oddworld: Abe’s Exoddus remake wrapped up, and so it signed a deal with Sony to release the game into PS Plus day one. He doesn’t disclose the financial details of the arrangement, but reading between the lines it sounds like the team was paid a flat fee, which ultimately gave it a monetary safety blanket in order to conclude production.
However, when it penned the deal it was banking on the PS5 still being relatively new when it achieved its intended January 2021 release window; as it turns out a global pandemic dramatically impacted global workflows, and the game was pushed back to April 2021. This gave Sony an additional three months to sell PS5 consoles, which meant that in the end there were more consoles – and, thus, PS Plus subscribers – on the market than Oddworld Inhabitants had anticipated. It’s worth noting that subscribers who didn’t own a PS5 could still add the game to their library through the web store if they wanted to.
The outcome is that a whopping four million people downloaded the game as part of Sony’s subscription, but full-price sales were significantly less than predicted. As such, the developer was devastated, because while it still got a satisfactory lump payment from PlayStation, it feels like the PS Plus period directly impacted on the release’s sales. Of course, it’s worth remembering that the Japanese giant marketed the hell out of this title as well – perhaps more so than some first-party releases.
The original interview is a little all over the place, and we think Lanning struggles a little to communicate his point. Four million downloads sounds like a positive thing, but it’s worth remembering that Oddworld: Soulstorm’s critical reception was weak, and there probably wasn’t much positive word of mouth following the giveaway. Furthermore, it’d be naïve to assume four million people would have paid full-price for the game, even if they did download it with PS Plus.
But it’s interesting to hear someone speak somewhat negatively about subscription services. While Sony has been quieter on this front, Microsoft’s PR has only ever painted Game Pass as a positive for developers, promising that it pretty much guarantees increased sales and engagement. This optimistic outlook is predictable given the importance of the business model to Xbox, and obviously it’d be unfair to compare PS Plus directly with what the Team in Green is doing – but here’s a developer who’s perhaps a little more sceptical of subscriptions, with first-hand experience of it all.
[source youtube.com]
Comments 69
I very much doubt that, 4 million people were never gonna buy it, and most of those people probably never even played it, doubt all but a few still care about the Oddworld series
He's not the best at business, is he? Obviously people aren't going to buy a game when they get it from a subscription service.
Even if there were less PS5’s on the market PS4 users can still add the game to their library using the app, so who’s to say that most people wouldn’t of done that and held off playing it until they got a PS5. The game doesn’t exactly scream day one purchase.
So, he’s mistaking people willing to claim a “free” game with those willing to pay full price? I am one of those to claim it, but will probably never play it, and would certainly never have bought it.
Doesnt make sense as PS4 owners can still claim the PS5 plus games, which he would have known when he signed the deal.
Sounds like an excuse to me
Removed - unconstructive
I would never have bought this game. In fact, I didn’t even play it after redeeming it. I imagine sales would not have really been that great for this type of game anyway, and in fact, it probably introduced the series to new players for the first time, which is a good thing. Maybe if there’s another game in the series it will have new fans to sell to as a result of PS+.
"Furthermore, it’d be naïve to assume four million people would have paid full-price for the game, even if they did download it with PS Plus."
Couldn't have said it better myself. I have concerns about subscription services as well but if they didn't take the deal they could have gotten less money as all of a sudden people have to be convinced to buy it. Oddworld also isn't exactly a hot commodity I'd say so taking the deal was the right choice in the end if it got them financial stability.
I mean it doesn’t help that, IMO, it was easily the worst title in the Oddworld series. Disappointingly so…
Subscription models don't increase sales whatsoever for big games (I'm aware that Oddworld ain't really a big game still). Microsoft flat out lies about it. Their own released games are the ideal proof of it. Neither Halo Infinite nor the latest Forza game was longer in the top ten charts than 1 week. These subscription models might increase popularity for smaller titles and this is where Microsoft is cherry picking from to delude people into believing their lies. The subscription services is putting a blow into games quality sooner or later. If by sheer quality or by quality dragging monetization methods. Screw these models. Rants over.
@thefourfoldroot My thought exactly. I will almost certainly never play this game I received for free because it got crap reviews. If anything, based on the reviews, I think they should count themselves lucky that they took the guaranteed money.
of course it did! What did you expect Lorne? You made the choice to take the lump sum with the PS+ handout and everybody who wanted to play it mostly got it like that. I don't feel sorry.
While I'm a huge Oddworld fan, after reading reviews i definitely would have held off on buying it. Even getting it free through plus was rough, was not the game I expected and was very very different to Oddworld games of old.
What he's saying doesn't make sense, people would just have added the game to their account whether they had a PS5 or not
Attempt to factor in potential lost volume sales next time you make a contract, or suffer the consequences of weak contracting. Presumably, this was done with a lawyer drafting the contract only on sony's side.
Kidding himself that millions of people would have bought what is, and I'm being generous, a mediocre game?
He's probably done better with the lump sum!
Lorne Lanning is a cool dude but he sounds woefully naive here.
I played like half the game and enjoyed it, but, it got a little boring. If I had beaten and enjoyed my experience, I would've paid $15-20 for physical copy.
I did the same with Streets of Rage on the Xbone. I loved the game and bought a physical copy and the vinyl ost.
It is all case by case and I do believe we are going to hear more stories like this who weren't successful. I feel like Tunic developers(perfect example), will have great success from putting their game on the GP and hear positive things.
Subscription Services will save gaming!!!
Realistically I added the game to my library and haven’t touched it like many PS+ games. And a lot of them are games I’d never buy on my own, I’ve only claimed them because they were free so…
@Bentleyma Just added that to the article, you're absolutely correct.
I love the way the guy near the top of the comments is proud for not buying a game and not supporting developers. Yeah my time spent here is getting less and less when I see irritating users like this on the site.
@JAMes-BroWWWn very very exactly. I said it before many times. These services are killing or even hurting companies. The effect will be more mediocore and rushed games. Clap your hands subscribers. Cheap cheap
It definitely makes you wonder.
I try to stay out of the debate surrounding Game Pass being profitable or increasing sales because I simply haven't seen the numbers yet to know one way or the other, but hearing this would definitely make you wonder.
I mean Sony must have crunched the numbers and then turned the books upside down and inside out trying to figure out if replicating Game Pass would turn a satisfactory profit.
As for this case in particular, as others have noted it does seem like a bit of an excuse. It's a shame, and it sounds like rotten luck. You would hate to see any developer struggle, but it does come across as an excuse.
@RubyCarbuncle same here.
The question is how many of those 4 million customers were willing to pay the full retail price? Reviews were average and had little traction after release. Had Sony not marketed this title who would have known had released let alone paid full retail for it? They needed the funding to complete the project. They received the funding but we're unhappy with the success of the "give away". That's part of the story but not solely the reason why this game wasn't a success.
To me it feels like he made a deal and it didn't work out as well as he wanted and now he's crying about it.
These 3 months don't make that much of a difference and Soulstorm is not that good of a game.
There have been a few cases of ps+ boosting a games profile and most likely long term sales, like rocket league and fall guys, but as far as most, espcially single player games go, I really can't understabd the logic behind ms's claim that putting them on these services boosts sales.
I’m all for buying games and supporting the developers but I wonder how many of those 4 million would have actually bought this game? I think it was wise on the studios part to take the Sony deal. I think this move may help them even more in the long run. Just my opinion though.
Notice he doesn’t complain about it being on gamepass… I think MS also pay something per download (play). But also you can’t even paint this story as an example of subscription bad as it enabled the game to be finished being made…
I'm also not the biggest fan of subscriptions. But this Oddworld game was garbage, which was its biggest problem.
I played the game through ps+ and loved it, but I didn’t get to the game until a few months after the game had released, and it was still very buggy. The whole ending cutscene to the story never played, and after some confusion, I had to just go on YouTube to look it up and watch it. So to say that a game in that state would have sold so much better than the equivalent they were compensated might be a stretch.
You're talking ***** mate.
So, from what I'm reading about this interview, they expected between 50,000 - 100,000 downloads, but ended up giving out 4 million. The expectation was staggeringly naive to begin with.
The game itself seems to have been critically panned, and it makes sense that, even with increased visibility from this deal, the word of mouth wouldn't be great. These services are great for increasing awareness for great games, but, on the flipside, if your game sucks, more people are going to be wise about purchasing it.
Yeah ok. There was an exactly zero percent chance of them selling 4 million copies of these niche titles.
I remember when this game was announced and thinking, ‘oh god not another side-scrolling oddworld game’. Followed by, ‘who the hell wants this?’
I added it to my library (because it was ‘free’) but I’ve never played it and probably never will.
They really should have invested that money in a sequel to Strangers Wrath. Now that I would play day one.
Maybe focus on doing a GOOD game first before thinking about sales 🤷♂️
I've never really been a fan of oddworld games, I've not even downloaded it lol
Call me crazy but I got both. I downloaded the PS+ version and played it and I pre-ordered the PS5 Day One Oddition because I wanted it on disc forever.
Because if my PS+ ever expired I can't play it. Although since I have it downloaded it's still sealed. No reason to open it yet. But I love and have always supported the Oddworld series.
I was even a backer for the Kickstarter book and my name is printed in the back, I'm quite honoured with that.
@Subsided
This.
I only ever downloaded it because it was on PS Plus. Not a chance I would have bought it myself
Lol, if they hadn't sold the game onto Sony's subscription service for the flat fee and relied on actual game sales instead they'd probably have gone bust. There's gratitude for you 😂
@BeerIsAwesome not necessarily, since PS4 owners may've claimed the game with the intention of waiting until they get a PS5 to play.
Yeah well don't shove it in at launch, it's bound to massively reduce sales 🤦
We might be able to estimate how much they got paid to release onto PS+. If they projected 50K sales at minimum, at $40 per unit, that's $2M (assuming Sony doesn't get their cut).
Now that's he's lamenting taking the PS+ money, we can assume the projected retail profits would've been more, so I'm guessing they were probably paid less than $2M to release onto PS+.
The one thing Microsoft Game Pass has going for it with vendors that Sony, to this point, does not is that the stint on GP is limited. There for three or six or twelve months, and then gone, and players have to buy the title to keep playing.
How much does that matter, when if you like it you finish it before it's gone, and there's always a new title on the service to play? And it's likely half price by the time it leaves the subscription service? Ask how many people buy movies when they know they can play them on Netflix or Apple or Vudu or Disney "for free" sooner or later.
I see how the subscription model works for first party studios - they don't care if they have 10 titles released in the year each with 5 million sales each - if they can get 10 million subscriptions for those same 10 titles, they actually make more money (especially since GP doesn't offer discounts for annual subscriptions like Sony does). I can also see how it works for small indies with low-budget releases, especially if they get guaranteed money.
I just don't see how the subscription model is a winner for third party studios trying to make big budget games. Is their hope to spin up interest and yank it out of the subscription store before people finish, so they pay to keep playing? Or do they plan on microtransactions or DLC campaigns to bring the money in?
This is the same guy who a few years ago on a podcast blamed Nintendo for the remake of Oddworld selling poorly on WiiU, sounds to me like he is just projecting the blame elsewhere AGAIN for his game not selling well.
@RobN unless you actually compare the equivalent subscriptions, Sony has what you claim it doesn't, and Microsoft also has the "downside" you mention.
PS+ and GWG both let you keep the game for the duration of your subscription. PS Now and Gamepass both allow including a game in the subscription for a limited time.
Shame they didn't let PS4 users download the PS4 version I would've given it a go
@Balosi You can't understand the logic, because MS's claims of sales boosts are a blatant lie. You see, it's not really measurable because the alternative is always hypothetic. So they can talk out of their asses without much repercussion.
Now, note how MS usually uses the term "sustainable" instead of "profitable" when discussing GP. That's because they are projecting an impossibly large base of subscribers in the future. Something certainly in the hundreds of millions. That's the key, and I'm quite skeptical.
@Milktastrophe just to add gwg also lets you keep any original/360 games on gwg whether u keep up with subs or not
This is the "games lost to piracy are equal to lost sales" on steroids. To be fair, he doesn't actually try to say it would have sold the same amount. However, the unfortunate truth is the game was simply average, bordering dull, and sold badly because of that probably.
So games being a part of a subscription service do effect game sales in a bad way and that the upfront payments for said game being added to the service isn't worth it if the game is being downloaded a lot.
So basically it's only worth it if the subscription owner pays a LOT of money for said game? So this is why gamepass is so successful as Microsoft have billions to throw around whilst sony don't, hence why Sony say it isn't sustainable for them.
This is why the biggest third party games don't come to gamepass day one, and why that statement about gamepass boosting game sales is actual BS, if anything its reducing games sales on that platform, small indies are the only ones benefitting from Microsofts up front payments
Added to library prior to getting hold of a PS5. Haven't downloaded it or even thought about doing so to be honest. Am I one of the four million? If so that's not a missed sale as I would've never bought it anyhow!
From what I heard the game was pretty bad, so he was lucky that they were given as much as they did. This otherwise would have been one of those games that hits the bargain bin within the month.
@Milktastrophe You got me. Honestly, I forget Games with Gold entirely. And while I thought of PS Now when writing my post, I did what everyone in the media has done since it came out (and doubled-down on when Game Pass was announced), and pretended Now doesn't exist.
I'm not sure the PS Plus Super Duper Edition, or whatever they're calling it, will be a success - but at least by pulling in Now as an extension to Plus, it might get some attention and stop being ignored. We'll see.
The rest, though, is largely true. Now works financially for Sony and their partners because it's games that have already pulled in most of the revenue they were going to get that end up on it, mostly. I don't see how day 1 releases on any streaming service make financial sense for third-party studios, though - not without some other monetization scheme, which means P2W or DLC or something.
@UltimateOtaku91 Realistically, big, established third party IP won't benefit from launching on a subscription service unless the manufacturers pay-out meets or exceeds their projected sales target. Which is why it won't really be a thing for most established series.
Indies and less established IPs can benefit from it, however, as positive word of mouth can lead to increased sales outside of the subscription model. Competition for visibility on these platforms is so rough now that a lot of worthy efforts from smaller developers get lost in the mix. Services like PS Plus and GP are a good way to ensure the product gets attention.
On the flip side, if the game isn't great, you're probably likely to see even worse sales, because people will know not to waste their money on your product.
So they basically took a lump sum of money to make a game that became shareware between PlayStation and their subs with no real way to monetize it post release. That sucks but low sales was obviously likely to happen. Few people will buy something they have access to for no charge.
The dev should have made the deal to get payments based off download numbers also. But idk, maybe PlayStation don't do deals like that.
I tried getting into the new N Tasty game but kept dying, wasnt have fun so i uninstalled.
When the guy made the comments that the Switch killed the Nintendo president I was turned off buying Oddworld games. I deliberately skipped downloading it when it was free.
I'm kind of glad it was a PS Plus game because I didn't like the new direction it went in and would have felt like it was a wasted purchase. For me it was too different compared to the original Abe's Exodus
‘Too many PS5 consoles out’ 🙄
Way to shake fist at the cloud 😅
Damn you cloud.
I downloaded the free PS Plus version, played it for 10 minutes and didn't play it every since. I would never have bought it. It's just not fun to play in my opinion. Technically brilliant but the gameplay is just not mine.
I loved the original Abe games on ps1,but Lorne really is coming off as disingenuous & ungrateful in the original interview to a pro-XB site which in turn has been picked up by other sites ala EG without any sort of fact checking!
Effectively he's saying with so few ps5's out there at launch time well there shouldn't be that many "sales" /downloads,use it to promote the launch & get the sales back via the ps4 version...& we get $$ to help finish a game that'd already been delayed & changed dev partners (Remember Just Add Water handled the previous Abe remake?)....
However he's effectively blaming PS Owners & management for their delays & later release & ps4 owners (yet to upgrade here),for redeeming it via web browser & not buying the ps4 game yet?🤔
Saw the ps5 reviews more than ps4 ones...but like Bugsnax I might be tempted to get it if it hits a sale sweet spot...you didn't see Bugsnax's devs hit out or complain getting dudded! (And Rockstar clearly did their homework only making the ps5/ps plus "upgrade" of GTA V available solely via the ps5 store rather than the web store!
It just seems to read like a typical XB site hit piece of "Game Pass is the golden ticket to gamers & devs!" 🙄
Its ironic when Microids announced a Switch exclusive HD collection of Strangers Wrath & other ps3 era Oddworld Games,a lot of PS owners expressed an interest in seeing a PS4 collection too! Talk about missed opportunities instead of subtlely complain of getting "dudded",by Playstation!
I love oddworld but only managed a few hours on Soulstorm. Too many glitches, janky controls and an ill advised crafting system. I had to restart a level three times because of assets not loading correctly and Abe getting trapped.
In todays news the makers of Scarlet Nexus praise gamepass…
@RevGaming Yeah for platform holders not for the developers maybe the small indies but it wont work for massive games.
@Flaming_Kaiser Exactomundo
I claimed it but never played it. I actually went and played the previous game instead to catch up. Difficulty got in the way and it's long been forgotten.
I didn't think it was a very good game for starters, so that could have something to do with it.
Oddworld: Strangers Wrath is the only game in the series I like. I think it would have been better to work on its planned sequel instead.
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