Don't Be Surprised if Sony Brings PSN Integration to PC Games

PSN Trophies on Steam Deck??? I'm in

Sounds cool, as long as we dont end up with another PSN security breach as a result 🥴

It’s only a matter of time, it’s all going the same way slowly.
I want the day when one console plays all games day of release end of story.
I can see it maybe in the future with Xbox and Sony but not Nintendo.

Lets Goooooo!

so it’ll function like how PS NOW signs you into the PS3’s version of PSN ?? it’s baby steps , but it’s lookin good , PC is the future . 👍

@Dezzy70 i believe that day is coming , if you replace console with PC . no way xbox/ps are gonna be ok with flat out releasing their games on eachothers systems . how would PSN/XBL even work ?

The functionality on xbox, where you could have played on cloud, series console pc and it always pulls your most up to date save is great. Anything approaching that with psn cloud saves would be great

Just give us trophy integration and I’ll play anywhere. PC, mobile, whatever.

Sadly the idea of consoles is becoming obsolete with this digital era, Microsoft are more far ahead in this department. Nintendo will probably be the last hold over but even they will have to eventually consider selling their games on other platforms.

That’s brilliant! I have achievements through Xbox despite never owning one thanks to them allowing Xbox Live integration on PC so the same with PSN would be great.

I'm very curious to see if this is how they'll sneak in PS+ requirements for their live service games on PC. They must surely see how bad it would look if it's only the console players that have to pay for PS+ online play while PC players get a free ride.

@Dezzy70

Pining for the days of the 3DO?

I agree though; it's better for gamers to be able to buy a console or PC and get all the games. Healthier for the industry too.

IMO.

@Juanalf Why will Nintendo have to consider selling their games on other platforms? Their operations are extremely profitable as is, and they clearly understand the value of their own properties, especially when it comes to maintaining independence as a manufacturer.

@Ralizah The trouble for Nintendo will be, if most games are available on generic hardware in the future, why would game developers generate custom builds of software just for Nintendo only to compete against Nintendo's properties? They'd run the risk of going back to N64 territory of basically only existing as a closed ecosystem of their own games only, no third party (or only indies for the closed environment.) Which might not be a bad thing overall, but it would be a weird market. Microsoft makes a platform/ecosystem. Sony is arguably building a platform/ecosystem outside their consoles (slowly, over time.) Nintendo? I can't see "hardware-software coupled solution" working forever, but I can't see them building an online platform on their own either.

IDK what the future will be for them, but I'm not sure bespoke dedicated hardware is the long-term future for any of them, and Nintendo's in the worst position for a "services platform" by far.

I see them merging more with mobile than I do with a "PC /streaming/services platform" in the future, though. It fits their architecture, design, handheld market, and Japanese market the best.

Not saying it's happening soon, but I can't really see the dedicated console space existing in 20 years.

@nomither6 I'd expect Sony to create it's own storefront on the pc then otherwise they'd be losing out on all the money they make from 3rd party games

@truerbluer pc players wouldn't accept it & they'd probably find away around it by making their own servers or something

Inevitable as soon as Sony mentioned they are expanding into live-service games.

Cross-Play
Extra Sales

You play Sony games first on Playstation but there is a high chance they end up on PC after a few years which I don't mind as long as Playstation is the priority

@sword_9mm
Pinning for the days of the Neo-Geo.

@Would_you_kindly PC players already pay MMO subscriptions, these live service games will probably be MMO lite so I can't imagine there'll be any way to circumvent a paywall if the content regularly updates and requires an always online connection.

@nomither6
Not a clue how it would work, it would have to be a totally different way of working.
Maybe one console to a specification they can both build. Maybe others could build but with a licence at a cost.
Then Sony and Microsoft just releases games on it.

@Juanalf I will never understand this thought process. Most console players like myself game on consoles because its more convenient, less hassle and more simple. I could afford a very high PC by the end of the year if i saved up because i'm at that point in life where luxuries like that are no longer a dream but do i want to? No not really as i much prefer console gaming, i've been watching reviews on Spider-Man for PC and all those settings would do my head in and play havoc with my OCD. Consoles aren't going anywhere because the majority of console players prefer console gaming. The PS4 and Switch show how huge console gaming is, hell even the Series S seems to be doing very well as well for MS.

@NEStalgia I disagree.

1) This 'death of the console' talking point is badly out of date, Mr. Pachter. I think it's pretty clear at this point that, even if Playstation and Microsoft games are available on PC, or via streaming, there will still be a significant level of demand for dedicated gaming devices.

2) Switch builds already require more dev time to optimize, and the console continues to enjoy support from the majority of releases you'd expect to run on it. Third party support is unquestionably the best it has been for any of their 3D consoles.

3) Cheap handheld PCs (Steam Deck) and mobile streaming might cut into it a little bit, but, in general, I expect the hybrid concept to continue being wildly popular with the public.

4) Even if it wasn't, so long as you need to buy their console to play Pokemon, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, and the like, they'll continue to succeed. Especially now that they're not splitting their base between different devices. Which goes back to my initial point: Nintendo understands the value of their properties, and that extends beyond their ability to turn a profit for the company.

With these PC integrations coming id live to eventually see our trophy list and achievements on one list combined. I know before anyone tells me...dream on.

@Ralizah I think an efficient gaming machine may continue to exist, but I'm not sure it will continue to be a bespoke stand-alone device. Not as general purpose computing keeps growing and even TVs become general purpose compute devices. It's working right now, but I do think it's going to really age out in general. It may "exist" but I don't think it'll exist as the ONLY way to play any game even within a particular storefront ecosystem.

And of course Switch is doing great third party. I'm not talkingabout Switch 1, I'm talking about what happens when MS and Sony and Apple and Google are all in on digital platform systems and Ninty is on SwitchRope U 3.

3) I think phones in general are going to obsolte the "hybrid" concept sooner than later. Between Apple rumors, Tencent doing whatever they're doing, just tech trend...."hybrid" may become a common general purpose device. And lets be real, Nintendo knows this and never sticks with the same overall structure long. Even as they plan the inevitable Switch 2 I guarantee you they're already planning an exit from the "hybrid" after that into something "new", because mostly they know they'll have to and big tech will be cloning Switch left and right due to its success, pushing them aside in their own market.

4) You may be right, but again that could go back to N64 era with no third party and only their library to sustain them. If they could make that work indefinitely they'd still be ok as an odd toy product while the rest of tech goes all in on digital platforms.

TL;DR: Digital platforms are the future, I'm putting my bet down on that. Not today, not tomorrow, but will it happen someday? We believe that.

Where Ninty goes at that time....hard to say.

@WallyWest
Hi man.
Just to be the devils advocate and maybe going the other extreme. Couldn’t we see appear at some point some console clones (mini pc) made in China or wherever ?
I know some devs were going for it not so long ago.
That would seem really bad to me. 😅

If it means Playstation games come sooner, I'd even buy them from a Playstation launcher.

@truerbluer that would be embarrassing for them considering how Microsoft tried this back in 2007 and hasn't tried it since for good reason

@NEStalgia

I expect Microsoft will continue to expand out with streaming integration into various devices. It won't be that long in the future before high-end TVs come pre-installed with GPU streaming apps. Hard to say what Sony will do, considering how reactionary their decision-making has been as of late: but it seems like a safe bet they'll probably continue along a similar path, which will eventually include an expanded focus on streaming. But, again, I think the evidence to date has shown that this won't substantially reduce demand for hardware designed for people to play games on natively. Video game streaming has some pretty massive infrastructural hurdles to jump through before it really catches on, frankly.

Could this calculus change with Amazon, Netflix, Google, etc. all showing interest in the industry? Maybe. But their attempts so far have been almost comically inept.

Hard to say what will happen with Tencent, given its deep connections with the CCP. I suppose evolving geopolitical tensions could affect things, but saying how that will impact the industry overall is difficult.

Nintendo is stuck with the hybrid concept. What's the alternative? In every generation to date, it has been their handheld console line that has kept them afloat, so they won't try to skate by without portable gaming hardware of some sort. They proved last gen that they're no longer able to simultaneously support two separate devices at one time. Hell, they restructured their company to accommodate the transition to all of their development resources going toward one platform. 'Hybrid' isn't some gimmick like motion controls or dual-screen gaming that can be abandoned at a whim. And I'm not saying Nintendo won't continue to experiment with new technologies to differentiate future consoles. But, whatever else they are, they'll also be hybrids.

Given Nintendo's current leadership, it's incredibly unlikely they'll lose third-party support en masse like they did with the N64. The N64 suffered the way it did because of very obviously bad decisions Nintendo arrogantly made at an inflection point for the industry.

@truerbluer That's true cause if you've seen the re-releases on PC they haven't introduced any one of them with multiplayer.

There is talk of a Switch Lite with 5G. They are also supposedly investing a lot in online infrastructure and services Maybe they are preparing for cloud play.

@ryanburnsred Well if it's free on PC I'd say it's more embarrassing for PlayStation players if they voluntarily choose to be swindled into paying for PS+ when a competing platform will undoubtably get a superior version day and date with cross-play and PS+ tax free.

@Nepp67 That's exactly why I'm eager to see how they'll handle it. They even went to great lengths to remove multiplayer from these new versions (Uncharted, TLOU) on both PS5 and PC. So I can't wait to see what happens when they release a game with online multiplayer and they don't address the PS+ requirement discrepancy between console and PC. I really hope PlayStation players speak up against any paywall discrepancy if it ultimately does exist, unlike Xbox players who let Microsoft steamroll them into paying XBL Gold for Netflix and free to play games which are otherwise completely free on all other platforms.

@truerbluer they're two completely different ecosystems, on top of that the PS3 and Vita had free online, remember when PS+ used to be optional? Instead of the majority speaking up about the change 10 years ago they rolled over and accepted it and even defended it. Now you're saying it should spread to a completely different platform so you can feel better about having to pay?

In your examples the Playstation players aren't the ones getting swindled. I sincerely hope Sony does not remotely attempt to force PS+ on PC users because it will be an absolute PR nightmare for them, and that won't be good when they're just getting their foot in the door on the platform

Long as they don't lose Steamdeck verified status, do whatever. Trophies are irrelevant to me anyway. But online login required connections mean a helluvalot.

@truerbluer The only reason I can see them trying to make you pay the ps plus on pc is to reduce the possibility of hackers since I know for a fact that they're going to put in crossplay between playstation and pc.

@ryanburnsred So you'd rather have console users continue getting screwed over paying for server costs so that PC players can enjoy playing for free? PC players who can freely create infinite accounts to cheat and hack games with no repercussions? A paywall would greatly deter that from happening and ruining cross-play like it already has for Warzone. Once PSN gets into the mix they're no longer separate ecosystems. I'd wager it would be a greater PR nightmare for Sony when their core console players realise they're being taken advantage of and the only ones forced to pay for the same cross-play servers PC gamers are using.

The PSN during the PS3 era was awful, did you forget about the 2011 network outage where data was stolen? It was because of that that people accepted the need to pay for online for a better more secure service and PSN drastically improved as a result.

If PC players have no issues paying for MMO subscriptions, they shouldn't have an issue with paying a subscription for these upcoming live service games.

@Ralizah I think you're missing that were not talking the period of switch 2. We're taking the generation or two after that, where the industry will be etc. It would be like saying Nintendo will never embrace digital, back during the GameCube.

Game streaming hasn't even come close to proving it is the future yet. A company hasn't proved itself to be profitable on streaming yet, the idea of game streaming is still an alien concept to most casual players, internet networks in most countries aren't good or cheap enough to support it in a family household.
Its still a very speculative investment, its domination isn't certain at all.

@Ralizah Nintendo's model only works so long as their passionate fanbase is there, and that may even change when they have a more forward looking CEO down the road. At some stage their first generations of fans will be in nursing homes barely able to move their hands or remember what 1-1 in Super Mario Bros is like. It likely won't happen for ages but at some stage even they will have to lap it up.

@SweetSummerShunv kids today are well aware of Nintendo, they aren't under threat in that regard.

@truerbluer console users should speak up if they don't want to pay just like PC players did back in 2007 and the way they most definitely will if Microsoft or Sony tried to implement a paywall again. I'm neither a game dev nor network engineer so I don't know how the backend works and where that money ends up going so I won't comment on that. But I disagree that a paywall would deter cheating. There are literal businesses made around cheats for popular online games and a paywall isn't going to stop that. The console's OS security is the main reason why console games don't have cheaters, not because of the online paywall. And what led to the 2011 outage was the vulnerability of a feature on the PS3 that allowed users to install Linux. There's a ton of YT videos on the subject if you're interested. 2011 was over 10 years ago and online security has improved significantly since then.

You're here advocating for PC players to pay instead of wanting Sony to make it free like it used to be yet say it's console players who are getting screwed. In the end it'll be Sony getting screwed when when PC players realize Microsoft, who owns Windows, doesn't paywall their first party games while Sony the newcomer does. As I said, it would be embarrassing and a PR nightmare for them. If you don't want to play online with PC users then disable it, most crossplay games let you do this. To wrap this up I'll just say I'll agree to disagree. I think paywalling PC players is a bad idea, and Sony shouldn't be the one to try it. I enjoyed this conversation with you, have a good one

@truerbluer I mean that's been the case forever though. Stuff like Battlefield, Overwatch and COD cost PC players nothing a month to play while console players have to pay for the platforms services.

@Would_you_kindly I don't think they'll do their own storefront. PC players aren't fans of multiple launchers as is. I bet they take the money from Epic who's trying to build their launcher.

@NEStalgia I don't see how predicting that Nintendo will continue to manufacture portable gaming hardware and maintain a protectionist attitude toward their IPs is equivalent to maintaining that Nintendo would never dip into the realm of digital distribution. Which is absurd anyway, since Nintendo dabbled in digital game distribution as far back as 1995 with the satellaview.

Also, the GC was only one generation prior to Nintendo embracing digital distribution via the Wii Shop channel, so the timeline in your analogy is messed up anyway.

@SweetSummerShunv Nintendo's biggest demographic is arguably the millennial crowd that grew up with the SNES in the 90s, and tend to be in their late 20s - early 40s. So you're looking at quite a few console generations before they end up in nursing homes.

And, anyway, it's not like children aren't being introduced to Nintendo all the time. Series like Pokemon remain incredibly popular with younger gamers, and many of these also go on to become life-long Nintendo fans. For people under 45, Mario is probably as recognizable as Mickey Mouse.

And yeah, at some point the company's vision could shift. Especially once the old guard dies off. It's possible the Nintendo of 2040 will barely resemble the Nintendo of 2022. But stuff like that is unknowable.

At present, there's no reason to think the company is going to expand the range of distribution of its first-party titles, though.

People gonna hack the trophies

@Ralizah There's less than zero reason to believe bespoke video game hardware and closed software will continue indefinitely. Apple, tencent, and Amazon are starting the slow process of normalizing games as outside consoles. Tencent and Logitech are partnering on that streaming only handheld. All of these together remind me if the late 16, early 32 bit era where every company had some kind of console. Most don't gain traction but its a harbinger of a tide change. Microsoft has the right placement and commitment to push that ahead and they're doing so full power. Sony is behind by a mile on that front (after being ahead by a mile too soon) but much as I dislike Jimmy, he's not clueless what's happening there and he's getting ahead of it at Sony speed... Eventually both will be on board. It's only a matter of time. Which again leaves Nintendo in the odd, outdated, bespoke hardware position. I'm not saying it's happening soon but they're going to find they have a problem with having to produce their hardware at outdated specs while their competitors are both going "don't you guys have phones?" Yeah right now they can convince people to buy out of date hardware to play acnhon. But when Xbox becomes Microsoft Steam, and Playstation becomes Sony Entertainment Backstage (feat. Tom Holland)....I think "buying a Nintendo" will look different in the market. I could see Nintendo making a dedicated controller that becomes "the Nintendo" or something so you still have to buy your amiibo with drift to play Mario. Electronics manufacture isn't what it was in the 80s. Nintendo has a form factor niche right now. It won't last indefinitely.

@Ralizah Yeah, streaming has hurdles, but I think those hurdles will naturally deminish with time. Mostly what will change the calculus is price and convenience. That's what has changed the calculus with everything since forever. Once gaming via streaming is simply more convenient, and cheaper than playing on a console, it will simply become how the mass market consumes games by and large. For the same reason the mass market adopted tinny, hollow MP3s that sounded like music playing through almunimum foil . It was cheaper and easier than CDs. If inflation remains up and recession goes full swing, it might happen sooner than I thought that people acclimate to that even with hiccups.

At that point, consoles will still "exist", but it's not going to be for the mass market, it'll be for enthusiasts, and at that point the price equation of the console business market stops really working for the producers, it requires the mass market. Heck, even before that happens I expect a $700+ PS6 and even a $450 Switch 2. As the demand goes down and prices rise on consoles, it'll drive ever more demand away and toward cheap and convenient services (which increasingly will become bundled with services people already have. Prime, Comcast cable, Warner internet, etc.) , and remember the average old, cheap, used phone is still better dedicated hardware than Switch in all but battery and screen size at this point. Once consoles cross a certain price point it'll become exotic/luxury and for a certain niche market outside the mainstream. And then it'll be competing unfavorably against PC.

Mostly I see consoles themselves becoming as exotic as high end PCs over time due to a mass market shift towards cheaper, easier to consume services as it becomes normalized. Consumers, en masse, will always choose cheap and convenient. Enthusiasts may still choose consoles, but the market for that was already stagnant and arguably in a per-market decline (9th gen 2020=2021 boom notwithstanding.)

I think we get one more "normal" gen at least due to the artificial boost this gen got leading into that one, but I think that gen will already start to become unrealistically expensive for its own good, and competing unfavorably against PC. But realistically for PSXB that carries us, what 12+ years from now? I'm not sure I see the mass market buying a PS7 for probably $850+ in 2034-2036 when an Amazon Luna controller is $50 And probably works perfectly well on most mobile connections.

And by then MS will be saying your whole library already plays on anything. PS might still be patching together loose ends and Ryan's successor will be plugging all the holes to make some sort of "run anywhere" platform that works as smoothly as MS's but probably won't so they'll "increase their partnership with Epic".

Nintendo may get 2 gens out in that time, because they're fading on the current one now. That'll carry them 15 years. In 2037-2038 I don't know that I see a "Switch 4" as a bespoke tablet from 2026 for $600 having much market.

I still think the future for gaming is for games to be service platforms, and "hardware" to be more of a peripheral market. It's not that I wouldn't rather see consoles stay, but I've seen it play out in every medium. Even with obvious worse quality, etc, consumers choose cheap and convenient, every time, until the "traditional" becomes "exotic"(expensive.)

(Edit: Somehow I saw your one post and replied and then replied to the other one thinking it was after mine even though it was before )

@NEStalgia It's fine. Your second post is less extreme and reads less like a science-fiction flash fic about what gaming will be like in the Amazon-Tencent Galactic Federation.

For example, while I don't think it's reasonable to expect that nothing approximating a console will ever be produced again any time in the next 50 or so years, it's certainly within the realm of possibility (not likely, IMO, given the infrastructural issues across the U.S. and other markets, but possible) that streaming takes off to such an extent that console gaming itself becomes prohibitively expensive to most people, and goes back to being a luxury for a select group of monied geeks (so, maybe closer to what it was like in the 90s).

Then again, I see it as more possible that consoles start primarily evolving sideways in such a scenario to continue offering experiences that aren't as easily had with streaming, or are more convenient overall. I mention what Nintendo is doing because it survives by offering audiences experiences that can't be had on other platforms at an affordable price. Right now, that's dedicated hybrid gaming, which is a popular hardware niche. It's easy enough to see how that would extend to a future where game streaming is more common as well.

Although I do wonder if the top end of what people are willing to spend on gaming hardware isn't increasing as well. It's not like top-end smartphones and $1000+ TVs don't sell, after all.

By the way, given the diminishing returns of console hardware evolution and the existence of A.I. upscaling, I don't think it's going to matter too much to people if Switch 4 is utilizing aged tech. I mean, clearly, looking at which consoles have traditionally dominated past console gens, weak tech hasn't mattered too much anyway, but I think this'll especially become true in the future. Which is another thing to consider: there isn't too much higher 'up' for consoles to go.

IMO, we're rapidly approaching the point where console generations will stop being a thing. At such a point, I expect a range of hardware will spread on the market, like with smart devices, to hit a variety of consumer price points. I expect these will be able to co-exist with popular game streaming options and VR tech.

@Ralizah I think one big thing I'm factoring is the overall trend in the US and the world in the name of business efficiency to basically say "oh well, excluded from a thing? Move to a better zip code to a city lol!"

I think once streaming capability hits critical mass, the big companies will pretty much say "screw it, we cover 75% of the market for 1/2 the operating cost, good enough, anyone outside coverage can find a new hobby or buy some niche thing."

It's a grander version of what started last gen and amplified this gen with "sucky broadband/bandwidth caps? Too bad, patches are 100GB, gaming's not for you anymore, suckers!" I easily can see that extending into "most of the market and major metros can stream fine, 10% of the market has mediocre support but will buy in anyway, that leaves 10-15% remainder that can go play candy crush, it's not worth the cost to us to reach the full market anymore, we have the people in the target zip codes that result in 89% of revenues across 75-85% of the market."

I don't think it was a luxury for monied geeks in the 90's. Consoles were relatively cheap-ish, and games were more commonly rented with few purchases per player. I think it's becoming more luxury/money now than it was back then, relally. PC (even text based games) was the money crowd.

I don't disagree about the "top end" people are willing to spend. But I also think that goes down the rabbit hole of niche again. MOST people buy $200-400 smartphones. A niche buys $1000 smartphones. TVs have always been a "major purchase" and have a kind of unique budgetary position going back to the 1950s. I think if we're pushing higher and higher on console costs, while streaming and the like is driving costs down, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And as console prices broach closer and closer to PC, while PC is already gaining traction there's a certain point that spending a little more on a non-walled-garden proprietary PC makes little sense.

Of course Walmart just slashed TV prices because they weren't selling amid inflation....so...there's that

But we do agree on there not being too far up for consoles to go, and the unique experiences angle. And that's kind of the point. In 7-14 years there's practically no reason to buy a PS6/7 when a phone in your pocket you already use for work and can connect to the TV will be at least as good as a Switch 2 or series S and can run from a potato battery for 15 hours. And I definitely agree with the spread of hardware factor as well. Which also goes along, though, with PS/Xb/Nintendo(?) possibly having to put their games on that spread of hardware. I don't think Sony will struggle to do that, they're clearly becoming more of a publisher than a hardware company already, they'll be there. And MS is already there. Nintendo's really the question mark.

Under Iwata, I'm certain Nintendo the toy company would have made a jumprope powered helmet console toy and been the toy to beat for the decade. But under the current management, and knowing Miyamoto will (maybe/probably/possibly?) not be there by 2035 (but I could be wrong... he and Sakurai are eternal) I see them really leaving the hardware/toy factor behind, and Furukawa has even stated the possibility at least once. It's definitely not impossible they become a publisher/merch company eventually. Furukawa has left that future on the table, openly, just not immediately.

@Juanalf This trend is additive, not substitutive. Sony is simply aiming at those PC players that would never game on consoles. Just like there are millions of gamers like myself who would never game on PCs (been there, done that, not going back).
Saying in 2022 that PCs will eventually replace consoles sounds a lot like saying in 2012 that mobile gaming would eventually take over. You know, the tiring "this is the last console generation" mantra.