PSVR2 Sales Off to a 'Slow Start', New Report Claims

As much as I'd love to see a price drop so I can afford it at some point, you really can't trust anything Bloomberg publish nowadays

This guy has said a lot of different things about the console manufacturers lately, to the point at least two of them had to come out and outright (In one case very very bluntly) refute the claims to investor relations, because what he says is gonna cause issues when it comes out he was wrong and the market takes it as gospel.

So yeah, lets not put any weight in this.

The thing is tho for £600 im not suprised its only sold that many itll be worth it in 2 3 years time more games cheaper price

@theheadofabroom You can, if it comes from Jason Schreier.

It’s simply the price. I’m not saying it’s over priced but it is expensive. Might put people who never tried VR an are unsure off. I love VR, got the PSVR 1 and Quest 2 but at the mo the only PSVR2 game i’m really interested in is Gran Turismo 7. I’ll prob buy PSVR2 near Xmas, might ask the missus to get me it for my Xmas prezzie.

Should have made another Handheld instead Imho. I can see them drop VR2 First Party Support fast again. It already barely had any releases from Sony at launch

While I wouldn’t be surprised if those were the real numbers, I knew who the author would be the moment I saw “Sony Doom & Gloom” and Bloomberg. Haha.

On a side note, I’m really enjoying PSVR2. Just would be nice to hear what the next year or two looks like from Sony themselves.

@LiamCroft Big agree about Schreier being reliable, can't say the same about this guy though...

I suspect the £529 price point is a big factor.

Having PSVR as a Playstation Direct exclusive in the UK must surely be limiting sales. I'm waiting for the device to be available in Curry's to use vouchers I have. It needs to be in shops for people to buy it.

No doubt the numbers aren't great yet, but I don't trust anything Sony related from Bloomberg one bit. They've lost all credibility at this point.

“ A new report from Takashi Mochizuki ”

This is the point where I stopped reading, and my esteem for this publication dropped.

I know you’ll probably get lots of comments, including mine, but publishing things from sources that are shown to disseminate false information is as bad as making things up yourself.

Now, if 30 million PS5 systems have been sold, then an attach rate of 1% would actually not be that bad. It would imply around 12 million lifetime sales. But, again, you can’t trust this guy at all.

@R_Ryder They’re piled high and not selling in both Media Markt and Giganten in Sweden. At least near me anyway. I would estimate that both stores in my town have 20+ each.

@Bentleyma
Why? Didn’t your TV cost more than the PS5? Same thing (just better).

From my point of view I loved PSVR 1 but at the moment 2 is too expensive to justify at the moment especially as there are not a lot of games that interest me at the current momemnt. If it released with a new Astrobot game could have been a different story.

I can't imagine they are flying off the shelves. There just isn't enough of a reason to get one just yet. Especially at the asking price. They need to have something to look forward to announced for it.

Who is to blame? Sony for not making multiple great AAA games available at launch OR gamers who have only 1 job?

I knew it wouldn't sell more, but I see the PSVR2 as a long term investment by Sony, pretty sure they'll support it on the PS6 and beyond. No real reason why they sould make a new VR anyway.
The display is already future proof, and by the time PS6 comes it will sell for 250$ or less.

It's gonna flop just like the ps vita did

Bloomers reported fewer than 300,000 sales not less than.

It's still a good number considering the price and the still small ps5 install base..It's another reason we won't see a ps5 pro any time soon with so much hardware available.

I think it’s also the fact that it’s not in shops and other online sites.

@GrimReaper GT7 is worth the cost of PSVR2 alone. But then I'd know as I own one so my opinion is informed.

@R_Ryder Agreed. I have a ton of vouchers to go towards it so I'm not going to spend until it's available elsewhere.

Well it could be down to stock issues, or down to the absurdly high price.

Or in my opinion its down to VR being so niche that not many people were going to buy it anyway.

Would of been better of making a playstation 5 handheld similar to steam deck.

@GrimReaper weird. He would have to read my comment after the release of PSVR2 and somehow go back in time to develop and launch PSVR2. Are you sure you're correct on this? You weren't last time you said something. This could be a trend as PSVR2 has a lot of good games at launch. Or am I imagining how amazing NMS is now? And how absorbing Pavlov is.

@Shepherd_Tallon so true. Its incredible. GT in VR makes going back to 2D impossible. Truly astonishing.

@Shepherd_Tallon I usually can't stand racing sim type of games. Haven't played one in over a decade. VR changed that, lol.

Its not just the price of the Headset alone, but the whole set-up too. If you wanted to play GT7 in VR for example, you need to buy a PS5, a Headset and the game - well over £1000.

In an uncertain economic climate, that is a LOT to ask. A 'Premium' Console is a LOT too, but with Back Compatibility and a lot of games available for 'little' cost, as well as 'cheap' Sub services offering access to 'hundreds' of games, it maybe easier to 'justify' its cost - especially if you are spending 'more' time gaming as other Activities go up in costs...

I'm actually surprised its sold as well as that to be honest and always thought it was a 'Niche' product - even if it is one of the 'best' VR headsets.

@LN78
@Bentleyma

True. I have one dedicated to my console and just forgot for a moment most people don’t. Although you can use the headset as a very good TV too, incidentally (for subscription apps like Netflix anyway). A “ huge” virtual screen. But In this respect not as good as dedicated TVs of the same size.

It’s very niche
It’s very expensive
We have cost of living increases

It hasn’t even been released where I live. I think they know it only appeals to a specific set of audience within a specific demographic.

300k sales in one month is bad?

I've got an idea - drop the price of the headset.

Who would have thought that... 🙄
The Hardware is pricier than the main system, the PS5 was unavailable for many people over 2 years and there isn't even a system seller VR2 title.
And we all know, games make systems. And add on hardware never really explodes in sales.

@dschons
He must have an incredibly sad life.

@theMEGAniggle I guess so. These were the early adopters who are crazy for everything. Now the sales will go down.

said it before but there is little for the Casuals to spend 500 on.

yes there are some good small titles, but not enough to hook people outside the enthusiast. the tech is also solid, but again its just before its time.

VR is probably 5-10years away from what a majority want.

@stvevan that's true. Its too expensive for casuals.

@GrimReaper Whether games suck or not is up to individual opinions, at least to a wide extent. That said, I don't think you're getting at much with that kind of confrontation. Most users here probably don't shy away from critically discussing things but it doesn't lead anywhere when you're trying to piss people off first and foremost.

Well that's expected when you sell PSVR2 for more than the PS5 itself. Also, VR isn't the future like these companies think it is. I'm willing to bet there are more people that don't care about VR than do care about VR.

Personally myself I think Sony would have been better going for another handheld over another PSVR, that's just my opinion. It would of been great to see a PS Vita 2 or something like that.

@get2sammyb Has anything been mentioned anywhere about a wider release that you know of?

@Nintendo4Sonic I hear you but its literally only available on ONE platform.

I have few nerd friends that are waiting for it to pop on Currys or Amazon before they buy it, safe to say more people are doing that. Who wants to buy off PS Direct. Slow start for sure but to say this will be near the peak, I'm not too sure about that.

@themightyant
Isn’t that the same with any platform at launch? Some people would still say that about the PS5 itself and it’s been out years.

Definitely a fantastic launch line up of games as far as I’m concerned, with some “must haves” like Resi8, GT7, Demeo, S&S 1&2, Moss 1&2, etc, etc.

I can understand that people who had a quest might see the game selection as too limited currently, but everyone else is rolling in it.

@dschons not trying to piss anyone off. I am just criticizing the many problems of the PSVR2 and the games it received on launch. Hopefully PSVR3 will be better.

@naruball All right I will admit it. The launch WAS pathetic.

Remember a lot of people are only just getting a ps5. Can’t imagine they would be comfortable with spending another £500+ so quickly

@Toypop it's been a month so more 'system selling' games will inevitably release? Like am I missing something here? Tell me if I am. Surely this comments section can't be this short-term minded

@theMEGAniggle but what big games have been announced? whats in the works?

I'd love to buy one, but at that price I've got more pressing priorities. Appreciate it's probably the best VR out there at the moment, but all the same a big price cut needed.

@GrimReaper You're saying the games right now are trash and there's nothing to be excited about. I think there are quite a few great games on there but that aside: It just launched, maybe let's just wait and see what happens in terms of announcements this year? Maybe, after all, there will be games that excite you as well.

@theMEGAniggle yeah a price drop could mean a difference. I mean, I guess the technic is worth the price.
But another thing is, who wants to play with VR. I know people who bought the first VR and later, they didn't touch it anymore.
A lot of stuff is lying around the TV, when you buy it. And the motion controllers last for 4h, that's ridiculous.

It needs a system seller. Simple as that. From what I hear the best use for it so far is to augment existing games (GT, Resi Evil), but without a AAA game release for itself it is relegated to the role of very expensive accessory, rather than a platform in its own right. unfortunately the lower the numbers it sells in, the less likely that is to happen.

I don't believe anything from Bloomberg and especially anything from this reporter.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn this is in the ballpark, it's been constantly available through the Playstation Direct store and clearly they didn't see the demand they were expecting after that invitation preorder round.

Sadly I'm not too surprised either as whilst I think it is a great product potentially, most of its best games are simply existing ports or added modes but weirdly without Sony's own big PSVR1 games such as Astro Bot and Blood and Truth.

Add to this that Sony themselves don't have a single announced upcoming PSVR2 game and no major AAA games in general outside an upcoming RE4 mode and it's a tough sell at that price point

@Americansamurai1
None of us do. Just makes Pushsquare, Eurogamer et al, look bad for reporting what is almost certainly fake news.

@thefourfoldroot1 No, Walmart is selling 55 inch TCL TVs for $250.

@R_Ryder that is certainly a big stumbling block, not having it available elsewhere is bizarre though probably linked to them assuming bigger demand initially. That said they should be moving quicker to get it into general retail or developers simply won't even look at it, even the I Expect You To Die sequel hasn't been announced for PSVR2

@aj21009
We’ve already established mine wasn’t a suitable comparison in most peoples case. Most people don’t by a TV just for their console. Also, I don’t know what a TCL TV is.

@carlos82
It’s strange they have only sold it via their direct store. Wonder if they wanted to just cut the retailers out for some reason. Anyway, it will obviously sell a bunch more when on general release, which I expect to be around a Christmas and the same time as a slight price drop.

@stvevan aside from the launch titles already announced, I truly don't know. Yes, there are only some standout releases but does a platform really make or break depending on its launch titles?

More will come but the first month looks good so far. The point I'm dying on is that its only been a MONTH.

It‘s the games, stupid! GT7 is probably the best PSVR2 game, but could have a limited appeal to many gamers. Horizon is very repetitive, and you’re not missing a lot by skipping it. RE Village is very intense and fiddling to control, so this could also be less appealing to many (me included). Where is Astro Bot 2?

@themightyant

I hear what you’re saying, but ultimately you are still just saying it’s too expensive.

For me, Resi8, Pistol Whip, Demeo, Horizon, S&S1&2, and the handful of other smaller games I’ve tried like Zombieland, Cave Digger 2, etc, has made it worth the money already.

VR is transformative, with so many games giving me the same feelings as when I used to upgrade consoles and there would be real changes. I barely consider buying flat games anymore.

There is plenty to play, I still need to pick up Moss 1&2 for example, but new games aren’t even needed for me ever to feel like I have my money’s worth.

Even if Sony themselves don’t make another game, third party PCVR and standalone devs will continue to port because it’s so easy. PS5 can brute force games and the control method is identical. I think even the initial launch shows games won’t be a problem.

That’s without Sony releasing a lot of hybrid games (flat AAA with VR modes to make them basically new games, like GT7 for example, or NMS).

Lots of people would love the experience but…it’s just a lot more money for some people than others, so I do understand the concern, if people think they need to pay 600 for a year of even fantastic gaming they may think twice (again, that won’t happen, but there is a lot of scaremongering).

@Nintendo4Sonic if you want VR, you will play it. If you can have VR, you will have a space for it. Not everyone can have it and not everyone wants it, like almost everything in existence. It isn't for everyone! The product is still niche, were people expecting monthly sales of 1 million? I'm so confused by the expectations here.

Also, yes the battery life for the controllers is a bit low.

@thefourfoldroot1 my guess is they wanted to control it at launch and felt it was going to do better, so this was a way to keep it out of scalpers hands

@themightyant that's exactly why I sent mine back, the tech is great but the upcoming slate of games as far as we know isn't anything significant. If the games come then I'll jump back on board at some point

@thefourfoldroot1 my guess is TCL tvs are like digihome tvs you get from Tesco

It was obvious from the day they announced it and was all but confirmed when they couldn't even shift all the preorders. The market just isn't big enough

@theMEGAniggle i get its a month, 300k is LESS than a 1% uptake on ps5 owners. that includes 4months or so of preorders.

again its a month, but usually you know of games 6month or so in advance..... and well there is nothing. So where is the support? Where do consumers have confidence in spending 500?

@jrt87 people said the same thing about PSVR1 and vita, yet it didn't have the same fate. Now here we are again with the same comments.

@themightyant

Ahh, ok, for me that’s not a question. I’d rather be in a game playing it than out of a game playing it.

It probably helps that I’m sick and tired of these generic flat games. I’ll still play the next Yakuza, and a few JRPGs but, to give you an idea, I’ve played the first last of us (ps3), the first Horizon, and the first spider man. Too bored of them to play their sequels. I tried. I got bored of GoW after 90 minutes. Of GoT after about 3 hrs (lasted longer due to the setting, but the gameplay is still generic), didn’t even last half hour in MM…. Talking of transformative, have you played Astro Bot Rescue Mission? Best gaming experience of my life.

What do you expect when it's not in any stores? I've still yet to see a PS5 on a store shelf to this day.

Hard to justify digging myself into a hole for a niche gimmicky peripheral that's more expensive than the console itself. If I had the extra money, I'd go get one today. But I don't. So I won't. I've also never seen one in a store (nor even a PS5 in a store for that matter).

Seems weird cause they aren't easy to find the the states. I mean scalpers have them online for 800-1000 but I haven't been able to find one at msrp

@themightyant
Again, I couldn’t imagine wanting to play yet another Zelda (I got bored of that after the excellent Wind Waker) rather than jump into S&S 2. But I guess it’s all personal opinion.

I don’t get “ hot, blurry, motion sick ” in PSVR2 by the way. I occasionally did in PSVR1, but nothing in this one luckily. Have you tried PSVR2 to see if you still have those issues? The fan seems to help with the not getting hot, once you find the sweet spot it is far, far less blurry. Can’t talk for anyone else’s motion sickness, but it hasn’t been an issue in 2. Then again I might just be utilising the lessons learned with 1 (playing sitting, snap turning).

It’s even a lot more comfortable with my glasses (although I’m getting some prescription inserts delivered today, so I can get the headset even closer and increase my FoV)

I agree about Skyrim. Shortly after starting I just sat by a lake and watched the northern lights for ages! Unfortunately I couldn’t continue because the control scheme ruined it for me. I’d love a remake with the proper VR2 controls, but we won’t get it due to MS buying everyone unfortunately.

It wouldn't surprise me.
Sony seem a few years behind the ball lately. VR, even though it seems it found it extremely small niche long ago. Doubling down on Marvel games long after peak MCU popularity (though to be fair, so is everyone else), & a list of live service games coming, at time when they're being booed off stage. I'm expecting them to annouce the NFT plans any day now lol
But hey, what do I know?

I’d like to try PSVR2 but I’m not going to buy one.

I bought the PSVR1 and it was fun to use it for the first few times but it was such a PITA to set up. And the wires… two wires going to the move controllers (which always seemed to need charging), wires from the headphones, a wire going to the headset, wires going from the tv to the little PSVR box to the PS4 Pro. I was so glad when I packed it all away and put it in the loft (where it’s been for 2-3 years now).

I know they’ve fixed a lot of the issues/shortcomings with the new headset but I’m just not that interested.

It's a lot of money for something you know is going to have a handful of decent titles and a ton of average shovelware.

I haven't looked at figures for a while, but last time I did (which was probably 2 or 3 years ago - I think PS4 had sold around 90 million units at the time), about 4 or 5 percent of PS4 owners had bothered with PSVR. Given equivalent time periods after the launch of each device, it had sold significantly worse than the Vita. And here we are wondering why a significantly more expensive version may not be doing too well... and that's without accounting for the cost of living issues.

@Ichiban it's all relative. Spider-man and Miles Morales did amazing, whereas The Avengers (which had way more hype, didn't). Live service games are still going strong. Sure, most have failed, but the ones that didn't are incredibly popular and profitable (e.g. Genshin Impact).

@Paranoimia the reviews so far are showing that the games released are anything but shovelware.

PSVR1 sold closer to 10% and it's not so much about how many PSVRs are being sold, but how many PSVR games are being sold.

Of course PSVR2 is more expensive than 1. It hasn't had a price cut yet. Plus it needed to be a substantial upgrade to entice PSVR owners/enthusiasts to get it. A cheaper unit with lower specs would have had a worse reception.

@TrickyDicky99 you also said a bunch of things about God of War 2 and we all know how that turned out.

I love people calling something that is a fairly niche product, selling 300,000 in its first month, a flop. Especially in the current climate. Each to their own I guess.

Personally I applaud Sony for giving it another bash, despite not being blown-away by it. Was getting bored with 2D gaming and have no interest in handheld.

@naruball Yeah can't argue with that. Spiderman will always be popular, & the quality of the games & movies is extremely high (can't speak for the comics). Also, they really couldn't have chosen a better character than Wolverine for the next game. Even a jaded old fart like me wants to see that!

I mean... put them on store shelves.

@theMEGAniggle yes, that's right.

I do not think it needs a price cut, I think it needs to implement backward compatibility with the existing PSVR titles. I believe that would increase it sales, thereby increasing the sales of the PSVR2 titles.

Just a heads up here. Corporations can and do lie all the time. Just look at the head of Starbucks do it during a congressional hearing for a very recent example.

Bloomberg, and the research firm would face legal action of the figures stated were largely off, because of the effect such news would have on share prices.

Even if Sony were to come out an officially say otherwise, it's far. More likely it's the entity citing actual data who is legit and those that stand to gain or lose financially that will lie through their teeth.

I have no doubt Sony did slash their PSVR2 sales expectations based on pre order numbers and thus as said here, ultimately did sell an underwhelming amount of units. The data from this most recent article corroborates such.

It would have to be a large price cut to salvage, and I worry about a really strong dedicated future support for PSVR2 with such underwhelming interest in the sets at that price point along with a lineup of games that were largely ports.

Sony is in for more disappointment with their emphasis on live service games in the pipeline.

Sometimes you gotta learn the hard way....

It was too expensive and theres barely any good launch games for it. I can wait a couple years for a price drop and a good selection of games

@stvevan absolutely and this is on Sony to up their communication. It is embarrassing that we simply don't know what's happening for the upcoming year. Especially for a new platform.

I and many others will shift away from being PS centric if this cold stiff arrogance from Sony continues because it's just cannibalising all their efforts or lack thereof

Low sales isn't exactly surprising. It's extremely expensive, was already niche, and it's received almost zero advertising, and is literally not even available for sale in he US and some other markets at retail, meaning the only people who are going to buy it are people who were going out of their way to seek it to begin with. I don't know what Sony's strategy is there, but it's not a great one, but clearly low sales were already part of the planned strategy. I just hope it's not just that Jim's actively trying to kill it because he never wanted to sell it to begin with.

But, this Mochizuki guy has been railing against PSVR2 with highly speculative, heavily slanted articles from before the start. I don't trust Bloomberg for anything games (Hello Switch Pro!). In fact I'd trust Patcher before I'd trust Bloomberg in gaming, he's proven more reliable, even if significantly less reliable than a dart board. But this almost seems like an agenda, multiple stories playing down a platform absent any data at all, both before launch and after it.

I'm sure there's truth to low sales, I'm hoping Sony's only accidentally sabotaging it rather than actively doing it. But this guys stories seem very fishy in general.

@KundaliniRising333 Yeah but. From what I read its all based on 'Projections'. It's easy to speculate and take unverified numbers to re-enforce ones own views. It's incredibly naïve to think these figures must be accurate or they'd face legal action. It's just a projection made in such a way they, or IDC in this case, would have their backsides covered.

As for the cost and number of games? It's all very relative. To some it's great value, others it's not. It's fine to say you'll wait and see. But of course if everybody did that with a new or emerging technology, well, it wouldn't ever emerge!

There's a real problem these days where early adopters seem to be looked down on or ridiculed. Which is nuts because without them things like VR wouldn't even exist.

@Toypop they do need to move forward quickly. I think my point still stands though. And yes if they continue how they are then don't be surprised if sales sit at 300k forever.

I thought the launch lineup was more than adequate and so did many others who were actually interested in buying the platform. For wide appeal, yes, there needs to be more credible titles announced.

It is obvious what Sony needs to do and following the success of VR1 I'd be so surprised if they don't continue or even 1 up the kind of support they gave to that platform for VR2.

The support will come, first month has been solid but slow. Most of us early adopters are in love with it. If they continue with the muted marketing it will not work the same as it has with the PS5, it will be an expensive flop.

@Nintendo4Sonic the dualsense lasts exactly as long as the sense controllers but everyone loves them?

@TrickyDicky99 jesus your so clever,I should really look out for your comments as you seem to know more than sony and everyone else tbh....I really wish I was you 🥱🥱

@SJBUK I don't fault early adopters at all. I simply think Sonys trajectory on the gaming front is extremely disappointing in terms of consumer friendliness and very shortsighted and late to the party on the business strategy front.

I adopted the Ps5 day one, and can admit it's been a largely underwhelming generational transition with the primary perk being resolution and load time bumps and next to zero native platform specific content. It has felt like a flood gate of next Gen updates, half of which charged fees for, along with a slough of cross Gen remasters and remakes of which 80% of them have been lackluster and felt like cash grabs.

I feel burned as an early adopter, and nearly 3 years in, the generation is still largely nonexistent with no foreseeable road map from Sony going forward aside from committing most of their Studios to live service stuff. I don't fault early Adoption, if anything I empathasize with ya, and if you see value in PSVR2 at launch then more power to you.

I'm loving the PSVR2 but it does lack mass appeal.

Agree with the general sentiment on this one, it just comes down to cost, not the demand for what is surely a technically great product. At a time when cost of living challenges are so apparent, especially in the UK anyways, 529 pounds is quite a large amount to stomach. Especially if starting from scratch, i.e. you need to buy the ps5 first.

I bought the PSVR1 around release date and I also bought into the excellent Quest 2 for a good price a few years ago, but 529 for psvr2 is a bit too much at this moment in time in the UK with the given games on offer.

I’m more likely to buy at a later date if they can get the price down below 400 and inflation eases off a bit. I don’t think it’ll go mainstream unless they can get the price below 300 GBP, but I’m no expert and that may be too low for Sony to generate enough profit from the product.

Here’s hoping they can sell more, VR really is an excellent way to experience gaming if manufacturers can get the financial cost-barrier to entry down.

Wasn't the projection 1.5M-1.6M by the end of the year or fiscal year i.e. 1.6M/9 months or less then 200k units per month in average. So, 300k for the first month seems ok, I would say. Nobody is expecting psvr2 to sell as good as a console. It is of course possible that 300k is all the VR enthusiasts which are left. But, I would say it is far too early to call it a vita. And one has to wait and see whether more big PSVR2 games will join GT7, village and call of the mountain. Or whether that is all that is planned.

I have to say I am more than impressed with PSVR2 GT7 is worth the asking price alone and that is from someone who never was really into car racing games. The launch line up is probably the best I have ever seen for any console or peripheral with the software reviews usually north of 8 out 10 on most review sites. The only caviat is that a lot of the titles are also available on quest 2 but in all honesty you only have to compare the quality of saints and sinners to see that PSVR2 far outshines the Quest 2.

@theMEGAniggle it works out at less than 1% of ps5 owners bought it.

@gaston Personally I think the numbers are irrelevant until it's in stores. The only people that even know it exists are PS or VR enthusiasts, mostly through engaging with PS itself. Most people aren't even going to be aware it exists or how much it costs at all in the US market, the biggest market, and other markets like UK, until they see splashes on Amazon and in Best Buy and Walmart and Game Stop. It's literally just a phantom product for those in the know at this point which is, itself a bizarre move.

I don't think it'll sell like crazy by dumping it at retail. They're not going to sell out anywhere at this price. But having them present is necessary to build FOMO/aspiration. Right now it pretty much only exists to people who actively go out of their way to look for VR systems and if you happen to see the VR icon in the PS store. Even Vita and PSP Go more visible. By far. Heck, WiiU was more visible.

@theMEGAniggle Sony's in a position where they're so used to being a near-monopoly and so used to dominating without trying, they forget how to try, I think. They have the Apple mentality that posting a new home page with a picture of a new product is enough to break sales records alone because for the consoles it's seemed like that's true for almost a decade.

@themightyant I have the opposite problem. I'm one of those people that had PSVR1 and liked PSVR1 but rarely ever took out PSVR1 because the camera setup was a nightmare, the sweet spot was even worse than PSVR2, and the controllers weren't really great.

While PSVR2 is far from perfect and has some technology flaws still, I found I ended up liking it more than I expected. That's VERY rare for a product for me to be more pleased than I expected with it. I thought I'd play it an hour or two now and then and fall back to the big backlog games. Instead I find myself finding it hard to go back to 2D gaming at all, which is actually a problem. 2D gaming just doesn't feel as exciting as it did 2 months ago, VR2 kind of ruined normal gaming for me, I think.

I'm trying to force and drag myself. There's games I really want to play. I REALLY intended to be half-way through HFW by now. But every time I start it up...it just looks so....primitive..... I'm used to life-sized Aloy, and looking up at the tops of mountains looming over me.....sitting in space ships and cars that are appropriately sized to be sitting in. How do I go back to fighting a moving picture of a 6 inch long thunderjaw after half my body fitting inside the mouth of one? So I end up not playing HFW or any of the other big backlog games I've been planning to play, because playing a space bar themed version of Cooking Mama where the martini glasses are actual real sized martini glasses feels more satisfying than fighting a Horus that's less than a foot long. You can't go back to "press triangle to loot container" after you've become used to just lifting the lid off a container and reaching inside to grab stuff. I still figure PSVR3 won't actually happen due to low PSVR2 sales but....man...it really spoils you. I tried NMS a dozen times over the years and always thought it was boring and dropped it in 2 hours. In VR I think I'm fully addicted. And it's the worst looking game in VR. sigh

just as expected at that price point, lack of noteworthy software and overall lack of interest from the mainstream market. vr is turning out to be a collossal failure. it is interesting to read articles from major news outlets from the early 2010s claiming this tech would revolutioinize gaming in the near future. that near future has long since passed us by... they were 2 decades ahead of themselves...

@NEStalgia I would 100% agree, but we just came off the PS4.

Did they forget how they won the hearts of basically everyone? They were straight up for the gamers. PS4 was the best place to game. The events and communication were almost always on point!

They haven't earned that title at all this gen. Frustrating their fans, essentially turning their back on us with their awful awful communication. Lack of roadmaps. Releasing half-assed PC ports. It's like 2 steps forward, 2.5 steps backwards.

Having what I and few others think to be a good release for VR, and then resting on their laurels would be completely on Brand for Sony right now. Very Apple like, without the fan satisfaction.

@Ichiban and the interesting part is that previous Spider-man games didn't do anywhere near as well, despite Spidey being just as popular.

@KundaliniRising333 Fair play. The 'early adopter' bit wasn't aimed at you, splash damage, lol. As for consumer friendliness, well, that's hard to quantify as it's often down to personal experience and perception. I don't think Sony is any more or less consumer friendly than MS, Nintendo, etc. They exist to make money and that's fine by me as long as I get something out of it. When that stops, I'll just move on.

I think a lot of valid points are being made but, for me, they get lost in an overwhelmingly wave of negativity. It's really hard to find a thread anywhere that sticks to a core topic and remains positive for more than a few posts. Tends to make me grumpy.

The world needs more positivity!

@SJBUK we can agree on that for sure.

Yet in order for the world to garner positivity, people must change and act in reverent harmony with it. Blissful ignorance via ignoring forms of predation on the planet and its people in the name of being "more positive," is not the answer.

@theMEGAniggle almost none of the people involved in that great PS4 launch are still there though. It's mostly people that walked in mid success, victory handed to them by default. Yeah, Jim's been there for a long time in UK, but he was following the orders of much more forward thinking leaders before. Both sie and sgc are now run by accountants and sales quota guys focused on maximizing margins and trimming costs rather than product people that know how to build new markets..... It's depressing.

@KundaliniRising333 Well, to be fair, just by owning a PS5 we're somewhat showing blissful ignorance Or at least an acceptance of the harm we're doing to the planet and people on it.

In order for the world to garner positivity I think we also need to accept people have differing views and learn to embrace them. Harmony often requires compromise.

Serious question. Is the problem Sony, or us?
Judging by how well PS5 is now selling, what actually is Sony doing wrong? I mean, I know what I don't like. I've a good idea of what others here don't like. But if they've got it so wrong, why are they selling so many PS5's when the world is going to sh1t?

Is it an age thing?

@SJBUK true that, true that

With sets from Playstation, Meta, Valve, HTC, and HP, there appears to be more sets available than games I'd play for more than a few hours. I'm guessing in 10-15 years there will either be enough companies developing quality VR games that I'll get a set, or they'll disappear like the 3D TVs.

@themightyant IDK, when $15 games can make $70 games seem like overpriced retro games, that's not a bad change, even if it means a $550 headset. It's like what everyone always says about PC gaming, if you pay the $3000 entry fee and $1200 in new GPUs every other year, the extra $25 savings on games really adds up!

@SJBUK Consoles are a mature product, relatively commoditized so they've more ore less become a standard household entertainment product like TVs and DVD players. Obviously not nearly as universal, but a significant portion of households in developed countries are likely to have a console as standard. I don't think Sony's doing anything particularly special to sell so many, other than have a reputation as an almost generic noun for "video game machine" in the PS brand the same way Nintendo did in the US in the 80s, but for a much smaller new market. They more or less don't have to do anything to convince people to get a PlayStation, people go looking for a PlayStation even if they're silent. Not necessarily even comparing it to competing products but understanding PlayStation=that thing that plays video games.

PSVR is a whole new market though. They have to create their market, they can't just wait for it to come banging down their doors like for consoles and iPhones. They need to get to the market and tell them why they should want it, but they're kind of falling to their default of assuming if it says PlayStation everyone will buy it automatically.

@NEStalgia I take your point but it's not really a new market, just a difficult one to sell into. And to your point, if you argue people are buying PS5's just because Sony, they'd surely be right in thinking people would just buy a PSVR for the same reason?

I do think the focus is on shifting PS5's, that's where all the ad revenue has gone. Seems to have worked, so hopefully they'll start shifting focus soon. I hope so, anyway.

@NEStalgia yeah that is a very valid point, incredibly depressing that they can't follow their own blueprint

They’d be really bucking the trend if this thing DOES do well, but too early to write it off yet. I have yet to meet a single person IRL who’s interested in VR gaming. There’s a few die-hards banded together on the internet but the mass adoption just isn’t happening the way it was predicted.

@Toypop PSVR has over 5 million sales and Quest 2 has over 10 million.

You know that two things can be true at once. Simply because PSVR 1 didn't sell as much doesn't take its success away.

And my point was more to do with matching or surpassing the level of support that they had for it but yea

@R_Ryder 100% this

@SJBUK I'd argue VR is generally a new market. Yes it's been around for a while and isn't a flash in the pan, but it's still in it's infancy and far from an established market. Establishing it is still up to whatever company manages to create one for themselves.

And I don't think people are buying PS5's "because Sony", I think they're buying PS5s because they're buying "video game machines" and "PlayStation=video game machine" the same way "an Uber" = "paying for a cab/transportation service by small vehicle" now in many parts of the world (not the US, where competition is a 3 way battle pretty decently, but much of the world.) People are looking for a video game machine and buying PS5 because that's the one synonymous with it. People (in the mass market) aren't actively looking to buy a VR kit yet, it's up to the mfrs to convince people why they should start to and why theirs is the synonymous one with the concept. Which so far they aren't really doing.

The next holiday season is what will make or break PSVR2.

Right now, it surely looks like a soft launch strategy. Which is smart, because VR is still in its early days as an industry.

On the one hand, Sony has done a great job at providing more than enough incentive for enthusiasts, with exclusive bangers like GT7 and RE8 in addition to a large and solid lineup of smaller but awesome ports.

On the other hand, the marketing campaign and device availability are clearly barebones.

All in all, this allows Sony to better mature the product in order for it to appeal to a more mainstream audience by the time the shopping season kicks off. And yes, a price cut would surely sweeten the deal and is definitely in the cards.

@NEStalgia Kinda agree, kinda don't.
By 'Sony' I really really meant PlayStation, so I think my point stands. If it's "Playstation = Games Console" then it would follow that "Playstation VR = VR"? Well, when Sony get around to advertising it a bit more, anyway.

VR will gain more traction as headset prices drop and comfort and capability increase. It's not the same as '3D' TV, it's a truly immersive experience.

Quest might have sold comparatively well to PSVR1, but I don't think the attachment rate is good. Seems people buy it because it's relatively cheap, love the wireless aspect of it but ultimately find the experience lacking. So don't heavily invest in it, leading to few decent games. Those with a beefy PC and a bit of tech savvy can tether it and get more out of it but then you're really talking a cost of £1500+.

£1000 gets you a great experience with PS5 + PSVR2 with plug and play gaming. So it's getting there. PSVR2 might not be the headset that makes VR mainstream but I reckon we'll look back in 5 years time and see it as a big step in right direction.

Anyway, I'm rambling again, time for bed. Gn folks.

@Toypop "I'd describe it as an abject failure."
Wow, harsh, somethings on the market for a month, with no actual sales figures announced and you're ready to call it a failure?

Quest 3 is not going to be the saviour of VR. No one headset will be. However, a combination of capable, 'affordable' headsets on the market, at the same time, that can be easily ported between, just might.

@SJBUK exactly. This guy (Toypop) is saying VR 1 is a failure because it was one of the first major VR headsets and sold pretty damn well, but in comparison to a whole home console (PS4) that has had 3 previous entries, spanning over 20 years, it sold nothing and so it is a failure.

You must use nuance

@Toypop to say PSVR 1 got curb stomped by something that has bad graphics is like saying you support Barcelona because they play in the premier League. You have no idea what you are saying.

PSVR 1 looked worse than anything on the market. It lost out to the quest 2 due to the ease of use, wireless, better controls, better visuals and all for a similar price.

What you're purposely failing to acknowledge is that VR is niche. If any company that puts out a headset (when barely anyone really wants this technology or feels as though it is worth it) makes 5 million in sales at their first go, it is very very very not far fetched to call it a success.

If Everton got to the round of 16 on their first go at the champions League in almost 20 years, that would be a success. For Chelsea, a disappointment. If PS4 sold 5 million sales, disappointment. Ya see how nuance works

@theMEGAniggle it's not really fair to call vr niche, but yes it's definitely not mainstream, it's somewhere in between.
It's got the potential to do well, with the right games, beat saber alone is proof of that.
I think meta/Facebook has blurred things somewhat, with their bizarre all in approach to vr, it's a slowly growing audience, not the immediate future.
Nfts haven't helped vr either, an unfortunate diversion.

@Toypop oh my goodness, just because something was outperformed does not make it a failure, are you so thick not to see that. Any amount of mental gymnastics you do does not make you right.

I don't know what you're trying to prove by your second point as that is the same thing I have been saying. If Sony continue as they are it will fail.

Now kindly, adios

It's hard to imagine sony offering proper support to such a small audience. I would be surprised if we see another psvr headset.

It's a niche market and asking those people to buy a ps5 and psvr2 for a small library of games was a tall order.

@SJBUK video game = Playstation because a massive market is looking to buy a video game console from SOMEONE and Playstation is the synonymous brand.

There's not a massive market looking to buy a VR kit from SOMEONE yet, that market hasn't been built yet. And even if they were, Playstation isn't synonymous with VR yet. They're a strong #2, but Oculus runs circles around them. If someone IS looking for VR, they think Oculus first, and then maybe Valve and PS tied for #2. For a product the larger market hasn't been built for yet. Sony both needs to work to become the default brand in VR like they are for console, which they're not doing, but even if they're happy to be #2, someone needs to actually build the market demand to begin with, and right now no company is really trying hard there and Sony's in the best position to do it with their software publishing that Meta, as top hardware vendor currently, lacks.

Quests attach rate lacks not because people buy it and play it for a month then throw it in the closet like a Wii, but because a huge percentage of their hardware buyers are really just buying it to use with PC where they don't get a dime on software. There's a casual market who buys it and buys novelty games, a moderate market buying a fitness game or two (something like Synth Riders) and have a workout based on it and that's that, and then the rest are buying it as the standard PCVR headset. Steam gets the money on software. So Meta has to make money with rapid new hardware upgrade releases. That's one place their model is broken and PSVR could easily surpass them if they actually put the effort in.

I think the PSVR2 hardware is solid. Not perfect, but solid. With the right marketing and games brought to it at an accepted loss, I think it could really change the mainstream view of VR, especially if they don't iterate every other hears for the tech enthusiasts and stick with one headset and work with price decreases over years. The question though is if they actually want to commit to doing that.

@zebric21 not when Sony said 2m in the launch window.

My advice to Sony? Keep supporting it. It's a fine piece of kit. People will play them at friends' and families' homes and will want them. Keep releasing games and concentrate on titles that the Quest won't be able to compete with.

@SJBUK you also need a TV and pay for games. Games are free on PC

@Toypop let me lay it out at a year 6 SAT level of understanding for you.

PSVR - games

Quest - productivity/games/bigger audience as it's on PC

Which one do you think will sell more? Quest will, seeing as it's multi-purpose. Forgetting the PSVR 1, VR on PlayStation will not reach the sales of an entry level headset at the same price on a PC.

Whether you deem it to be a failure or not (because the metric for success in a low volume hardware is defined by you , Toypop and everyone else is wrong) is quite irrelevant because your points don't align with reality. It grossed over $1.4 billion. It moved a decent amount.

PlayStation have an advantage here being that their new headset is actually industry leading, hence the price. However, the new Quest will probably outsell VR 2. Sales will come, it just needs good and long support.

@NEStalgia Hmm, I'm not sure the majority of Quest owners play tethered, I doubt they'll have a decent enough PC or the skills to make it all work. Certainly hear enough nonsense talked about tethered being a VR killer for that to be true. Maybe 50% at most. Would be interesting to find some stats.

I reckon most Sony first party stuff will have VR content, if not be fully VR playable within a few years, if there's enough take-up. I feel this may be a bit of a turning point but we'll see.

@chorltonandwheelies Nah, if you want to play with PSVR you don't need a decent TV, just something to get started with. So that don't come into it.

Assuming you're not talking pirated software, yeah, plenty on PC. But how much of it is even worth playing for free? I got a second-hand Lenovo headset to mess around with VR on PC about a month ago.

Messed around a bit to get it setup, had a quick shuftie on steam for free stuff to try. Found nothing to keep me interested. Went back to playing GT7 and Kayak in the living room, on a nice comfy sofa with plenty of room to move around in!

My messing around with PC days are over methinks, sign of my advancing years I guess.

@SJBUK Quest has a rough position in that they're a fairly default headset for PCVR players because not everyone is going to spend $1k+ on an Index or Vive, (so no software revenue) and among non-PCVR players, they have a relatively low cost device that easily falls into the same casual problem Wii suffered at least before it found it's VC niche where people played Wii Sports and that was about it (Wii attach rates eventually skyrocketed but that happened post-VC.) They're relying on a mobile-phone like sales model of a new headset every other year to keep the same people pumping money into the hardware. They're certainly the market leader, but they're not getting the kind of returns I'm sure they'd like to see, and they can't just jack up the price of the headset too much without hurting the market they do have.

They're in a better position than Sony technically in VR, but Sony has the capability of doing better in terms of an actual business channel through VR if they actually put effort into it.

I dream of an outcome like you suggest where most of their 1st party includes VR content. That's a best-case scenario to me. I'm not super optimistic, but I certainly hope you're right!

@NEStalgia I think it will sell with the software. At the moment there is presumably only gt7 which convinces some people to purchase a headset (excluding vr enthusiasts) If there are more such titles. It will sell (But obviously it is very unclear what titles will appear in the future) And, certainly if it appears in stores at some point il will sell better.

@gaston Yeah, the retail thing is bizarre. If they kill the product and cite low sales without having ever put it up for sale we'll know they killed it on purpose

Otoh the best thing they could do is make spiderman 100% vr2 playable. It's pie in the sky but that's their biggest game by far and would accelerate vr sales considerably. It will won't be mainstream but it'll start putting vr in homes that wouldn't have otherwise bought it.

@NEStalgia yes, that would boost sales by a lot. But, I would be very, very surprised despite the spiderman psvr1 demos.