The UK’s unexpected decision to block Microsoft’s bonkers $69 billion buyout of Activision Blizzard provided us with a temporary reprieve from the corporate skulduggery that’s dominated the industry this past year, but the bees nest will be poked again next week when the European Commission is expected to submit its conclusion.
Stop us if you’ve heard this one before, but Reuters reports the continent will give the deal the greenlight, potentially leaving Britain’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) and the United States’ Federal Trade Commission standing on their own. While the latter can be overcome in court, the former will present a significant thorn in the Redmond firm’s side – and it’s already tried piling on the political pressure as a result.
It should be noted, however, that days before the CMA came to its conclusion, all the noise coming out of respected financial news outlets suggested the deal was about to pass, so regardless of what’s being reported about the European Commission, this isn’t a formality yet. A block from the, er, bloc would effectively kill this deal stone dead.
Of course, should the deal pass on the continent then it means Microsoft may be more likely to follow through with its plans to appeal the CMA’s decision, which could potentially drag the drama out into 2024 and beyond. There’s a lot of money on the line here – Activision Blizzard will pocket a cool $3 billion from Microsoft if the deal breaks down – so we doubt the trillion dollar tech giant is going to go down quietly. And, if the European Commission does indeed pass the deal, Britain’s resolve is really going to be tested.
[source reuters.com]
Comments 108
It’s far from over… sadly.
So atleast another year of this, meaning an article or two a week about it on other sites.... Yay.
Does people still care about this? In the way that there's still people who think the biggest software company in the world is not going to get its way over the monopoly concept using money?
The delay is useful for Sony tho. The generation is reaching it's peak and this thing is going to continue at least one year more, time Sony has to use to think what's next for the following generations after Activision joins MS.
@GymratAmarillo As I understand it, and I fully concede I haven't read all the materials and am certainly not an expert, it's going to be incredibly difficult for Microsoft to overturn this decision in the UK, regardless of what the EC rule.
I take your point, though. (Although I'd argue the fact that trillion dollar companies are able to strongarm governments into doing their bidding is a good example of why these firms should have been stopped decades ago!)
I hope this get blocked like in the uk.
I am glad the UK won't stand idly by while Microsoft tries to destroy the gaming industry by buying up a publisher every two years. Microsoft runs their studios into the ground and are known for middling quality otherwise. Hopefully, the EU similarly blocks this disaster.
@get2sammyb
This is my understanding of the differences:
With the US and the FTC, Microsoft didn't really seem to care about the FTC's decision. This is because the FTC has to prove its case in court that the acquisition would hurt competition. While the current FTC is very anti-big tech, the US judiciary is extremely pro-business and almost always sides with businesses against federal agencies. Even if the FTC manages to win their case before administrative court, MS has options to appeal. The effectiveness of this depends on the particular appeals court, but MS will certainly shop around for the circuit most likely to side with them. And even if MS fails, they can appeal to the Supreme Court which is also extremely pro-business. Basically, the FTC's goal has been to stall the acquisition for as long as possible, realizing that the case was basically unwinnable given political conditions.
The reason the CMA is so much harder is that the CMA has a LOT more power in these decisions. Even if MS appeals the case, there's only a 1/3 chance that the Appeals Court will even hear the case. If they do successfully appeal the case, there's only a 1/3 chance that it will come out in MS's favor. Even if they successfully appeal the case, the appeal comes out in MS's favor, then the CMA has to apply the specified changes from the appeal. And then the CMA reviews the process again. It's not a different agency. So winning a case against the CMA is about as close to impossible as the FTC winning the case against MS.
Time for some popcorn munching while I see all the drama unfold
Feels like this could end up being a new kind of soap opera.
@get2sammyb it actually won’t be that hard, remember the CMA said they have no objections to the ABK merger for the XBOX console, only the cloud, they are concerned mainly with price hikes to cloud and GP after the merger. If the EU and U.S approve the deal they can take control of ABK but would have to only sell ABK games in the UK, not be able to bring ABK games to Cloud and GP. This would anger the player base in the UK at the CMA. I think MS will try and convince the CMA they won’t raise the price much of the service and continue to allow all cloud companies access to ABK games. In the court of Law the CMA don’t have a leg to stand on, they have no true way to say this is a bad deal, especially when they didn’t speak up on all the cable networks dealings that were far more aggressive. MS would be smart to sit back and wait to see the EU and FTC say. The deal is far from over and far from a slam dunk win, but if MS see’s it worth it, they could use the courts and they have a legitimate case and the CMA doesn’t. I own and play XBOX a lot as i do with PS, so either way is fine but ABK needs new ownership and leadership be it MS or someone else.
@KaijuKaiser i run MAC and have for nearly 15 years. Xbox is the only MS product i own. When i do have to use windows 11, i don’t find it bad, but i don’t find it overly enjoyable as the MAC either. Plenty have switched to MAC’s in the years. Not enough to take much away from the Windows dominance but every user counts 😀
@NinjaNicky Microsoft wants to buy Activision Blizzard King, but has to seek the approval of anti-trust and consumer protection boards in varying countries. The UK is so far the only one to reject the acquisition. The FTC in the US is planning to take Microsoft to court. The EU has to make a decision next week.
Various other countries have approved the acquisition.
What happens if only the UK is the one to reject it is actually an unknown to me. I mean, it's not like the UK can tell a United States company what to do. I think it has an impact on the ability to do business in the country, though.
Good or Bad is really depends who you talk to.
People feel like Microsoft is going to purchase ABK and horde all the games for itself in an attempt to lure people away from PlayStation. They may be right, they may be wrong. Currently Microsoft has said that has zero plans of taking (at least) Call of Duty away from anyone - going so far as to offer unprecedented 10 year deals to show it's "serious" about not taking the game away.
Also, people feel like the gaming industry shouldn't be consolidated to only a handful of mega-corporations as it is felt that it would stifle creativity and competition.
Some feel that this acquisition is good because it will add a certain level of competition to the market - especially in the high-end console market and the Cloud Streaming market.
Some people feel like it would humble Sony a little bit.
For me, I just want Blizzard IPs on Game Pass because I'm cheap.
I also feel like games development is such a different beast than many other things. I mean, the presence of EA, Ubisoft, SE, etc. hasn't stifled indie developers from achieving great success. So, it's not like a Microsoft-owned ABK will prevent against the ability for others to make great games.
It's not like something in the manufacturing space where supply chains and finite resources are also on the line.
I hope that helps a little.
Curiouser and curiouser.😁
Jim and Phil should just handle this like men: musket duel at dawn.
@Uncharted2007
I’m ready for the books by people at Acti, Microsoft, and Sony in the next five years. They will be great reads.
I hope it gets blocked.
Microsoft is so trash at making AAA level games, which ABK is for the most part.
Still praying everyday that the deal goes through and jim ryan is defeated. you got my thoughts and prayers M$ , please make Playstation good again .
@Green-Bandit
Did you get that from the fraud Michael Pachter? He's gets everything wrong
CMA Finds That Proton Is An Imperfect Substitute For Windows Gaming
(In their official decision, the CMA had this to say on page 226 of the document:
“ Data on game performance using Proton suggests that it is an imperfect substitute for gaming on Windows, and a significant proportion of games cannot be played without issues.)
https://gameranx.com/updates/id/465461/article/cma-finds-that-proton-is-an-imperfect-substitute-for-windows-gaming/
Round 2. FIGHT!
@Green-Bandit MAC is unbearable i don’t know how you guys do it . they’re just quirky for no reason . Windows is straight-forward and simple , no gimmicks
Just like any other legal proceeding
It's going to take forever before it reaches a concrete conclusion
@UltimateOtaku91 an article or two a week?! Often I'm seeing an article or two (or more) a day 🤣
@GodofCapcom Patcher is a dum dum, i got that from the leaks online. But yes i didn’t watch the whole report on Destin’s show but i seen patcher was there as a guest. It’s public knowledge that the CMA said they have no issues on the console side of competition, only on the cloud side. So it’s pretty simple you disable the block in the UK if the U.S and EU approve. I don’t claim to be a law expert in any way shape or form so please take what i said with a grain of salt 😀
The sensible option would be to block the multi trillion Monopoly that's been complaining its the poor little downtrodden Indie that hadn't already taken Zenimax Bethesda future releases off PS platforms & pushed them already into releasing underbaked titles to feed the Gamepass beast!
But as per their heavy PR Smokescreen "ten year deals" of nothingness, Gamer Phil "we can't outconsole Sony" rehearsed narrative & veiled threats to the UK,& paid up US Congress cheer squad proves,they have a long & powerful influence as monopolistic bullies & the failure to curb them in the 90's has only made them more arrogant weilding that Monopoly.😕
Hoping for the miracle that'd stop them,but not expecting it. If for nothing else but to give Activision Blizzard minor shareholders a reason to dethrone Bobby Kotick & his cronies off the ABK board & give it the corporate clean out it truly needs.
@nomither6 i’v been on MAC for so long and of course iOS and iPadOS that i just got so used to it. But i don’t disagree that at first Mac’s are not what they advertise with being intuitive. Windows to me is like the PS5, to many clicks to do one thing.
Poor, beleaguered Bobby Kotick is gonna be waiting awhile for his golden parachute.
@Green-Bandit
I would probably be a MAC user if:
1. They weren't so overpriced (I'm sorry but Apple overcharges the ever loving s--t out of it's customers) and;
2. If they had anything close to the support of PC's.
Don't really care about some Activision, it's the Bethesda deal that should've been blocked. I bet every household owns at least 1 Bethesda game.
@PegasusActual93 Apple has ben overcharging for 40 years they will not change. And you can't even upgrade memory or the ssd in them.
@Green-Bandit ironically we both agree about ps5 being unintuitive but have different thoughts about mac and windows .
Apples iphones are good though 👍
I have too many games to play on PS5 and PSVR2 to need like this like Xbox owners.
If Microsoft put as much work into managing the studios they already have that they are for this acquisition, maybe they wouldn't need Activision.
@PegasusActual93 they are pricey, i can’t argue with that. Especially cause My wife and i both have one, plus ipad pro’s and our 10 year old has ton’s of apple devices minus a Mac. One thing i always believed in is you get what you pay for, people want to look at spec sheets and then say Apple is more expensive( not saying you) but that’s not the only thing to factor, Apple optimizes it’s software to hardware better than anyone on the planet. Throw in the new M series chips and those things shred intel on sometimes a third of the power. Also i have had 2 MacBook pro’s in my life last so long the battery either died or it wasn’t supported in updates no more, so over 10 years and they still run and run fairly well today. They just last so much longer, have way less fan noise, better screens in its price range etc etc, that i can easily support the cost. As far as support you got me there, they are only 10-12% of the market, which is up from 1-3% when i first start using them almost 2 decades ago. They have hinted no rumored at better gaming support for years, not sure how involved they want to get with it, but i am sure not a lot, resident evil 8 came out for it and ran insanely well, not sure if that was just good work from Capcom or Apple provided good Dev Kits and tools.
Been saying this for a while, if the EU approves it then this will drag out for another year but the deal will 100% close eventually as the FTC always loses in court and I don’t doubt that MS will circumvent the CMA one way or another even if the appeal fails (there’s no way they’ll drop it if only the UK is the one opposing the merger).
Honestly at this point I wish the CMA also approved it so we’d have reach the end of this drama this month, but now it’s getting dragged out another whole year.
@BeerIsAwesome That’s obviously not gonna happen, do you seriously think that after 2 years of scrutiny the regulators will allow MS to buy another publisher? Of course not.
They’ll continue to buy studios for sure, but I don’t think they’ll dare to attempt to buyout another publisher, not even a smaller one such as Ubisoft, if they do regulators would never approve it as they already got Bethesda, Activision, Blizzard and King at that point.
@nomither6 Yeah it’s no secret i don’t love PS UI’s or Controllers. Love the rest of them, outside of the PS5 design. But Sony is close but just not quite there with the Ui, i know this will ruffle feathers but Xbox Ui and Controller to me are best in class. Their first party output is a whole other in class and I’m afraid it’s the worse at the moment. iPhone is insanely good, Android is just clunky and malware littered with slower buggier apps. Hate to be so blunt and i know i will get the Android lovers all over me. But Android is just not optimized at all having to cover everything from a free phone up to the Galaxy.
Why is this such a big deal for Sony fans lol? It's not like Microsoft is trying to take COD away from anyone.
If the EU blocks, it’s game over, even if MS also decided to appeal that.
If it does not block I expect ABK to divest/spin-off all UK operations into an independent entity that won’t be part of the merger, removing all power the UK has to block the deal.
The appeal will continue only to decide if those operations (that include an important studio: Sledgehammer, as well as regional publishing offices) can be also acquired.
@Tharsman Sledgehammer is not based in the UK, in fact I don’t think any of ABK studios are based there, however Microsoft does have studios in the UK such as Playground.
@IOI According to ABKs own list of locations Sledgehammer has offices in Guildford, UK; Toronto, Canada; Foster City, California and Melbourne, Australia. I have no clue what is the primary office, and how their teams are distributed across these 4 offices, but they have a UK operational base and that alone gives UK a say in the merger.
Edit: ABK could always just shut down that office, spinning it off into an independent operaron is not the only option, but I doubt that is something they want to do.
Burning shores... Jedi survivor... Tears of the kingdom... fF16
Better things in gaming to spend my time on
Even after admitting that this is the wrong path, they still- You know what, I don’t care.
@Agramonte I would wait on the bug fixes for Jedi Survivor before playing.
@Tharsman Foster City, California is Sledgehammer headquarters. Those other areas are subsidiaries with the UK one only just opening in 2021.
@JayJ They aren't worried about Microsoft taking away CoD. It the other IPs that Activision owns that none of these companies seem to care about like Crash or Spyro.
@AverageGamer still there though, but at least that means it’s “easier” to divest of it. Just hope no one has to lose their jobs in any such process.
@AverageGamer Microsoft will take away everything to force people into game pass. So as soon as they can they will make COD Xbox/windows only.
@XenonKnight I'm a PC gamer, so them making CoD Xbox/Window only doesn't bother me, but I absolutely don't see CoD going Xbox/Windows only. Even if they was able to get everyone on Game Pass. CoD is an esports game, and esports games have to be on as many platforms as possible to stay profitable. The only way I can see CoD going exclusive is if they massive scale down how often CoD releases a new game, and content by moving studios away from the IP. Which is possible since Phil wants to move Toys for Bob from working on CoD to working on other retro games.
Microsoft has a habit of inserting itself to some industry, monopolize it, and make the industry worse. From making dlc the norm on xbox live, pay for online play, then the latest 1st party games on subscription day one.
Usually microsoft the first to start it, then after critizing it sony follow, and last nintendo. Well, I don't think sony and especially nintendo want to put their 1st party games on their subs day one though.
@NeonPizza Microsoft will not because they want to push Playstation & Nintendo out of the console space and have it all to themselves. Microsoft is one the most soulless company's out there. Only CCP companys or Amazon are more soulless.
Some of you guys applauding the deal being blocked by the UK should probably ask yourselves what Microsoft will do with that $67 billion they'll have back instead. You can buy a lot of studios for that and those deals won't face nearly the same scrutiny. Take-Two has a market cap of $21 billion and is rumored to be looking to sell. Leaves a lot of money leftover.....Square, Capcom....the money is going to get spent.
Letting Microsoft gobble up a toxic Activision for $70 billion might not be as bad as people think.
A non-japanese company can't buy out a Japanese one. Its even hard as hell for a Japanese company to buy a Japanese company.
@UltimateOtaku91 there will be an article about this on push square every other day 🤣
And they can have the broken ass ubisoft. No one cares about them.
If the EU green-lights the deal, MS could make their threat true and go ahead with the acquisition, move out of the UK market. The revenue loss is presumably insignificant wrt. the merger not going through. As a consequence the UK economy would collapse because everything depends on azure and windows. So, better ignore that a monopoly gets even bigger and allow this humble trillion dollar underdog to buy up the industry. It could save the UK economy rather than shatter it.
Geez seriously we like to play games. Shouldn't be gatekeeping. If you want exclusives sure time them then a year or 2 later release on all platforms. I never really got into wow have the old ones on steam but when your stick in the middle of a good game you don't want to leave it. I will play wow 1 over the summer.
@JayJ Why is this such a big deal for Microsoft fans? It's not like you can't already play these games on Xbox. It's not like this is just gonna improve games made by their countless other studios.
Oh, cause of gamepass you say? You do realize that gp will become more expensive because of this. And that all those loopholes to get it cheap will be closed.
I didnt have a horse in this race, but quite frankly given the rhetoric Microsoft and Activision have used against the UK since the CMA blocked the deal, i would be disappointed if the EU were to green light this.
There's no need to test Britain's resolve. We always stand by the correct decision.
@JayJ with words like Monopoly (still smaller than Tencent) & buying a publisher up is bad. (Psygnosis & Bungie come to mind) being thrown about it sounds like there worried of competition. If it fails I'd expect smaller acquisitions & Microsoft to get aggressive with 3rd party exclusives. Which would be worse.
Still don't think that anyone is trying to buy anyone, and that this is just an elaborate way for Kojima to reveal his next game.
I tried to tell everyone it wasn't over yet when everyone was celebrating and high fiving eachother the other week saying the deal is dead. People celebrated way to early, you dont celebrate at half time. We really need to just wait this one out if the EU does pass
@KaijuKaiser People have no alternative to Windows???
Apart from Google and Apple of course.
The CMA made the wrong decision based on the wrong thing. Cloud gaming is a pathetic reason to block the deal.
If the EU and FTC approve the deal then it leaves the CMA looking very stupid indeed.
@patronmacabre thank you for sharing.
I still think it will go through. The CMA's argument is extremely weak and will have a tough time in Court proving that MS can 'monopolise' the Cloud with just its 'handful' of IP's.
Nothing is actually stopping Sony 'compete' in Cloud Streaming for example - offering their OWN IP's like Spider-Man, Wolverine, Uncharted, God of War etc - these games will NEVER be on MS's cloud service - neither will Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Zelda, Mario, GTA etc because MS doesn't OWN those or can prevent others from setting up their own 'Cloud' service to offer their OWN IP's
Netflix didn't stop Disney+ from 'competing' despite the massive start and extensive Library of Movies/TV content - but Disney owns Marvel and Star Wars so they can compete with their 'own' content. Unless Netflix owns the rights to the vast majority of TV/Movies content, they cannot 'monopolise' streaming, cannot 'dictate' prices etc - same with MS. Nothing, other than the fact that 'cloud gaming' isn't important to 'others' yet, is preventing Companies from being able to Compete as MS doesn't own EA, Ubisoft, Sony, Nintendo, TakeTwo, Capcom, Square Enix etc and cannot put 'their' IP's into their 'Cloud' service.
MS won't own the vast majority of gaming IP's or Studios to 'monopolise' Gaming. If they can't 'monopolise' Hardware with their 'limited' exclusive IP's, they can't monopolise Cloud for the same reason. Every Publisher/platform holder can compete with their own IP's, set up a 'competing' service with their own 'exclusives'. EA with Fifa, Madden, Battlefield, Mass Effect, Dragonage etc would 'compete' with Ubisoft and AC, FC, Division, Tom Clancy etc who compete with Sony and FF, GoW, LoU, Spider-Man etc, who compete with MS and Forza, Gears, Halo, Starfield etc...
If the EU passes the deal, the FTC will have a 'very' difficult time proving that MS could 'monopolise' gaming - especially as EVERY other state has passed the deal at a 'hardware' level and only CMA has 'concerns' around 'Cloud' gaming - which is extremely 'weak' and I expect very difficult to prove in 'court'. Its Speculation at best with no 'evidence' to support this 'theoretical' future...
I think its more likely to go through - but the UK will require ABK (as a 'shell' company) to 'publish' games in the UK and NOT allow them on any UK based Cloud service.
The UK is only a 'small' region - even if its an 'important' one. It alone cannot 'block' the deal and shouldn't really be able to 'block' deals between two 'foreign' companies...
First off, I think the close ties between Sony and the CMA, as hinted at when this drama first started, is the real reason that the CMA blocked the deal, and that the issue over Cloud is actually a smokescreen as the CMA knew that they could not simply side with Sony over the issue.
My view is that in the the event that the EU block the acquisition, the deal is as good as dead. However, if the EU authorise the acquisition, and then a little further on, Microsoft are victorious in their Court battle with the FTC (as most seem to believe) that Microsoft will proceed with the deal regardless of the decision by the CMA.
That said, I think Microsoft will try to gain approval from the CMA, but in the meantime they will circumnavigate those issues that are causing concern in the UK, and as a result the ABK games will not be available via the Cloud in the UK, and they will also likely not be on the Game Pass, though as that is not one of the CMA's principal objections, that may not happen.
Basically, I think it all hinges on the EU, and then no matter what they say, the internet will melt...
Removed - trolling/baiting
The drama between Microsoft and Sony for a shooter game that I will always hate them.
What a funny console wars. 😝
I found the upcoming kids games on PS5 / Switch are way more fun to play than that shooter game.
@NinjaNicky Even though MS has clearly stated they have absolutely NO intention of pulling CoD and/or not releasing 'new' CoD games in the future on Playstation, even making deals to bring CoD to 'more' platforms, I can't see CoD going away.
That's not to say I don't think things won't change under MS - most likely the 'annual' cycle with 8+ studios involved in making that happen. Nothing guarantees that 'People' will still want to play CoD - especially not if something 'better' comes along.
Battlefield has often been 'poised' to take over, but then EA screw up with a 'buggy' and/or disappointing launch. Fortnite and PUBG looked 'poised' to take over from CoD, but then CoD evolved 'warzone' to compete.
Of all IP's, I think if Sony really wanted to 'compete' with their own military shooter, I think SoCoM would be their best option. The potential in this IP to be a Battlefield/CoD beater is there - but if its 'just' on Playstation, BF/CoD could still be 'more' popular due to a larger potential user base. It could still be more popular on Playstation though - have 10m+ regular players - but to be a CoD beater, I think it needs to be 'multi-platform' to compete in terms of Players/sales.
@wiiware
I’m genuinely curious as to what industry MS has ever managed to establish a monopoly in. I’m sure you will bring windows so let’s get that out of the way since that’s basically what they got started with. So… what industry did MS ever inject themselves into and take over?
@XenonKnight
I'm 39 hrs in (PC)... that shipped sailed 😅
And as usual - the issues are nowhere near as bad people trying to make it out to be. At least not on PC.
@Tharsman Maybe I should say they tried, I remember they're getting sued by United States and EU.
While it's good that sony and nintendo has competition, I wish microsoft use the normal way to compete, like making really great exclusive games that make people want to buy their console rather than just buying the biggest publishers available 😕
@wiiware they were sued over attempting to leverage their OS monopoly (that these days is no longer one since they are down to 29.4% of consumer OS usage) to make their browser dominant. That was greatly a Bill Gates policy though.
As for competir the “normal” way, let’s face it, no one here would like that either because it would translate to using that same amount of money to make 12-24 month platform exclusivity deals, maybe even lifetime deals. We all remember how the community reacted to Rise of the Tomb Rider 1 year exclusivity, and that was a game that would had not even been made had it not been for how much MS paid to have it made.
Serious question: how would you feel if MS was the one that money hatred Final Fantasy XVI, Silent Hill 2 Remake, Metal Gear Solid and Castlevania to keep them away from PlayStation for a year, or maybe even permanently?
What if they did that with GTAVI? If anyone has the deep pockets to do it, it’s MS. Under that light, I would much rather they own CoD, a game too big to make exclusive. It gives MS what they want (big title to put on game pass every year) and it ties up their wallet making it much harder for them to make crazy money hatting.
Many keep asking “why not do what everyone else does and make great games”, but even with their reputation, Sony relies heavily on third party exclusivity deals to be were they are.
Probably won’t be for a while. Fun stuff. After hearing the UK was going to pass it, but ultimately said no, anything goes here.
@Green-Bandit They're not but you are also entitled to your opinion.
@pharos_haven yeah just an opinion. The good thing is in today’s world we all have choices. Plenty of different products out there to choose from. 😊
I hope the EU block it to :-/ (who knows what the EU will do. They are clueless most of the time anyway) If Microsoft get anymore big Publishers that will be BAD news for ALL gamers in the long run :-/
@XenonKnight why is that?
GREEDY, SLIMY Xbox wouldn't let this drop! It's curtains for Sony, Nintendo, and anyone else foolish enough to get into the video game industry as Xbox BUYS their way into a videogame monopoly!!
@RonnieL Microsoft did pay for timed exclusives back on the 360 when the player base was close. The only reason they don’t do it now is because they can’t. Playstation has a far bigger player base an devs only wanna do timed exclusives for Playstation, they sell far more copies.
As for Final Fantasy that has nothing to do with Sony. Squar Enix said they didn’t wanna make Xbox versions. They wanted to concentrate on the Playstation version as that’s where it’ll sell best.
@RonnieL the only way they could gain ground on Playstation imo would be to release incredible, exclusive games. Like Playstation does. That is the reason Playstation beats Xbox, the games.
@Agramonte I'm still waiting for a black Friday sale before I get the game.
I'm just going to start ignoring these articles now until it's over.
@XenonKnight
I got 1 month of EA Play Pro for $14 to play it. Cant really pay full price for everything either.
Hopefully They will have all the fixes out for you by that point.
@Tharsman There's no way rise of the tomb raider won't be made if microsoft didn't make it exclusive, I means the sequel is made even though it's not exclusive to any platform lol.
And to answer your question, yes I have no problems with timed exclusivity, it suck but I don't have problem waiting since I have more games than I have time with (playing AAA games can be cheap if you bought it on sales).
@BlueBeemer brand loyalty because of the games. It’s a fact!! The only real difference in PS5 an Series X is the exclusive games. My fav console is my PS5, because it gives me better games than my Series X.
@LightningLeader nope, you’re wrong. Square Enix openly said the sales on Xbox don’t warrant the extra work.
@LightningLeader SE don't like Ms it has been like this since ff14 when they was having issues getting the game on Xbox
@wiiware square was very clear the first game was a comercial failure. MS paid 100 million to finance the game development. It was almost a Bayonetta 2 situaron, with the sole exception MS didn’t demand full exclusivity.
Also: I intentionally mentioned permanent third party exclusives too. Sony done it with games like FF7R, and MS used to do it too with games like Dead Rising 3.
@RonnieL did Sony design the game and then hired From Software to make it? Because if not, it sounds like “Sony paid for permanent exclusivity AND ownership of the IP”. They did the same for Dead Stranding and The Order 1886. They know they can’t get away with keeping the IP on most pre-existing IPs.
Edit: btw they are not the only ones. MS also did the same with Recore and Ori. Nintendo did it with Astral Chain. It happens all the time, new IP exclusives tend to be lifetime exclusives with IP ownership. A big exception might me Forespoken, and that was supposed to have a 2 year exclusivity, now it’s basically lifetime since that title is obviously dead and buried.
I will believe Square “choses” not to port the FF7R to Xbox the day they stop publishing all other games like FF Crisis Core to Xbox.
@RonnieL A “3 game deal” does not change that the are all From software games all the way. No, Sony did not have a finger on designing them. Previewing the games is part of the whole exclusivity deal, everyone paying for exclusivity will hype up said game.
FFXVI and FF7 Rebirth are not even out and a known paid exclusive, not sure why you listed them there.
They are not porting Octopath Traveler 2 or Live a Live but port Diofield, FF Crisis Core, Star Ocean and Chrono Cross. At the end of the day, the list of not-ported is either too selective or too arbitrary to be simply “because we didn’t feel like it.”
@RonnieL There's a bit of bubble vision in that view. The overwhelming majority of the console customer base does not own two consoles. MAYBE a handheld and a console, but not two consoles. The overwhelming majority of console owners don't buy exclusives at all (look at Sony's combined exclusives sales vs their total install base.) Exclusives aren't really what sells the majority of customers on a platform, it' influences but isn't the determining factor for the majority, and very very small portions of the market buy two consoles. For most it's either PS or XB, not both. And for a broad swath, would expect to sell one to change to the other and not have 2 consoles under the TV. You see even here among enthusiasts a small portion of people that say such things, outside our enthusiast bubble, that's the rule, not the exception. 2 boxes is for the enthusiasts. And we do often buy multiple. But we're a pretty tiny part of the market.
Phil isn't wrong in that. Sure they can convince you and other hardcore Push and NL members to also buy an Xbox if they had the right exclusives but they're not going to move much needle from the sane, rational people (which isn't us), that buy one and only one box, mostly to play the big online/social/viral/MMO/sports/Creed/whatever hit games are. For the masses, PS is popular, PS is the one everyone buys, PS is probably what they bought before and may have games for, PS is what their multiplayer friends are on, PS is the one they see everywhere and mentioned by celebrities.....Starfield and Ninja Gaiden and even poaching Spiderman just isn't going to make most of those people just leave their PS ecosystem and move to XB.
Spencer is unfortunately correct in his assessment. ENTHUSIASTS can be swayed that way. But enthusiasts are barely a double digit percent of the market. They'd need the "I play Fortnite and NBA and buy Farcry every other year" people onboard. And that isn't likely.
I don't think they'll actually stop making consoles any time soon, I think that's a necessary component of their brand to keep it competitive even if they're trying to shift toward cloud. But it's never going to really compare to PS on the console-only sales front. That'll just have to be one portion of it's broader business, really they're competing less with Sony and competing more with Steam/EGS/etc as a storefront to buy games for various platforms on, and their consoles are just one such place to consume content from their store. They need the console, but they can't expect to be rivaling Sony's market share in that category. I think it's healthy that they're aware of that and publicly acknowledging it, really, It's better than pretending forever they'll someday win console while always failing as long as they do have a strategy that's working in "gaming" in general.
@BlueBeemer
You might think people don’t care, but they do. Call of Duty Black Ops 360 games and GTA IV are constantly in the top selling list, and right now you can also see KOTOR2 and Lego Star Wars The Complete Saga there too. It might not be a Top 10 thing, but good games are good games regardless how old they be, and good games simply make money, again, even if not top 10 territory
@RonnieL
Says the person that just stated “reading comment sections” and “many people I know”…
@BlueBeemer the console not selling well is unrelated to backwards compatibility being actually desired. It’s not a niche feature, but it came too late.
PS4 was already market dominant, BC alone at that point was not going to help. Had XBO launched with BC, it would had been drastically different, because many more would had been reluctant to make the jump to PS4. I’m one of the many X360 users that abandoned Xbox during the PS4|XBO gen, something that was way easier because lack of BC. Hell, I gave a huge chunk of my games away, something I did regret a bit when Xbox ended up adding BC, but what was done was done.
@BlueBeemer if it increased software revenue (and seeing 360 games still be in the top selling list tells me it did, games don’t get there only due to enthusiasts) then it was a significant addition worth the time and investment.
For what it’s worth, BC going all the way back to OG BC is one of the reasons I went Xbox first this generation. Yes, I’m an enthusiast that has all consoles, and this is anecdotal, but you can at least add a +1 for Xbox that would had not occurred without that backwards compatibility to those generations.
@RonnieL Of course an enthusiast gamers acquaintances and Internet posters are likely to be in that niche that buys multiple. That's my point about the bubble. I didn't say nobody does. I have all platforms, personally. But it's something enthusiasts that want to play everything that interests them and want to invest the time and money to do so are likely to do, which isn't the majority of console buyers.
And yes I didn't mean Sony poached spiderman, I meant even if Microsoft poached it from Sony, as well as starfield being a hit etc wouldn't be enough to cause mass adoption. Some would. But not in large enough numbers to shift their market share considerably. Not unless they're smashing it out of the park for a generation while Sony's games start drawing less attention. Which isn't too likely. At least not this gen.
And the numbers are the numbers regarding exclusives. Total exclusive sales are well below console sales, and that doesn't factor in that players that do buy them are likely buying more than one, so it's a smaller customer base than raw sales show. Reality is that must console buyers buy for the big popular miltiplats, not exclusives. Nintendo excluded, they have a unique market in that regard
All that said, your last statement isn't wrong, and isn't contrary to what Phil said. He didn't say they're not going to aim to make popular games. He said that doing so isn't going to win the console race, they have to go their own way. They're off course planning to make popular games, they wouldn't be trying to buy ABK otherwise, but there just self aware that it won't win them over Sony in consoles, those games will instead move Game Pass and Windows Store growth and engagement, and with that some players will choose to play that content on an Xbox console, but it won't be a race to steal Sony's customers, they have to forge a new market of players that aren't invested in ps yet. Not unlike the Nintendo strategy.
@BlueBeemer It's a little more complex than that I think. Peele reductively think "it's all about game pass" without thinking about how MOST of their content isn't even in game pass, and standard game pass requires local hardware, it doesn't come with cloud streaming, only ultimate does. Will that change on both fronts? Sure, but that thinking overlooks the importance of Windows Store (which is the store even on consoles.).
They really want a rival to the Apple App Store, Google Play Store, Steam, EGS, and that's the Windows Store, which imo is a huge part of their strategy. As is PC games. They're not going anywhere in pc games, and abk feeds the pc gaming arm of their strategy well. As does Bethesda.
Console is still an anchor to getting the windows store embedded in people's spending and will be for a long time. Native pc gaming will be big for them for a long time. Someday that might go all cloud, but not gp only, the store as well.. I think consoles will also exist but I think they'll become more of a true custom PC..I think their support of steam deck and the bye Asus Ally is a good window into what future Xbox branded consoles might be inside: a custom gaming PC. Which, is actually a really intriguing path tbh.
@BlueBeemer compared to ps sales, it sells poorly. As a component of their software/store/subs ecosystem overall the sales it garners is an important contribution to software sales. That's Phil's point. Comparing their hardware sales to Sony will always show failure. But if it's not failing to generate software sales it's successful in it's role.
I've compared it often to surface. Do surface products sell anywhere close to Dell, HP, iPad, Lenovo etc? Not close. But they're an important part of the windows ecosystems footprint just the same. The hardware has value in contributing to their overall platform.
Now will the next Xbox be a $500 micro Windows 11 PC like the Asus ally minus the portability, etc and just run PC games? Maybe, why not? "Surface Xbox"? Maybe. But having a stand alone content machine for windows store will continue having value to them for quite some time I think.
@Tharsman To be fair, squareenix always blame the western studio games as failures while they're silent on the failure that is a decades of final fantasy 15 development. For example even hitman games sold millions, squareenix also said it's a failure, I don't think it's realistic to expect call of duty like sales on both games.
I don't have problems with exclusivity, even permanent one as long as it make sense, dead rising start on xbox so it make sense the game stays permanent on the console.
@RonnieL saw it, don’t read it the way you read it, and you proven you don’t accept counter arguments so decided to just stop the conversation there and let you think whatever you want to think, since there is no point in continuing that exchange with you.
@RonnieL I didn't ignore it, but ignoring and blocking you, since you debate like a 5 year old.
@BlueBeemer I think that still overlooks what they're actually competing in though. Game pass makes up under 20% of their revenue in gaming, over 80% remains traditional sales and accessories. Third or not, the bulk of their revenue isn't game pass despite it's success. The majority of their library offered is simply not available via streaming but only via console or PC. They've said they're bringing select purchases to be streamable but we haven't heard much about that or about that "select" means. Either way there's still no known plans to bring most of their library to streaming any time soon, and we know that library still makes up most of their revenue.
Maybe long term, 15-25 years, that's the plan. But that's a long way off and even as the cloud leader cloud is still a miniscule market with relatively slow growth as infrastructure allows. And I see no way they get out of the pc games market or that the pc games market vanishes to cloud in the near future.
I still think their pc focus, interest and participation in steam deck, Asus ally etc is much more informative. There's really zero reason for them to make a bespoke console when they could make a console priced actual PC. The Ally is a $700 Windows gaming PC, portable, battery powered, capable. That's without the walled garden subsidies. Is there much reason Microsoft couldn't make an Xbox/surface "console" that's literally just a larger, fixed device at $500/550 just like it? Not really. Honestly I have no idea why series x isn't that to begin with. It should have been. I expected it to be. The console is just another device to get the store and subs on, and even in third that's profitable and helps the overall ecosystem. For them its simply one product for their software store and subs. One that overall is turning increased profits.
@BlueBeemer I still think that's a viewpoint that assumes that an Xbox "console" (whatever its form) has to "compete" with PS/Nintendo favorably and "win" in metrics of units sold to justify the existence of the console. That's the wrong yardstick, and I think that was really Phil's point. It's not about moving a number of consoles that competes with the other two in some sort of arms race. For them I think the question is "is the existence of the console moving more software?" It's not about the console as a separate business competing against other consoles and winning or losing. It's about does their set top product generate sufficient software revenue and brand awareness to justify itself? As long as the consoles are generating positive software and subscription sales, and as long as the existence of their consoles gives them a more premium air in cloud than Luna and the like, they have more than enough reason to continue them.
Valve made a lot of mistakes with the Steam machine. Not least of which was that it wasn't an actual product at all. It was just an open spec for PC mfrs to build machines from at varying rediculous price points, and then from there, couldn't all run all the same games, or even all games from Steam. Valve, internally didn't really know what they wanted to do with it. I don't see an "Xbox" version of that just being a spec for HP to build a bunch of $1k+ "consoles". I see it still as a specific Xbox model (or pair or trio of models) in an official Xbox shell, that inside is a specific custom low power gaming laptop. Again the new Ally is a very good window into what that could be like. Not a portable handheld, a fixed box, but that's a clear indication at how small and power frieldly pretty series PC hardware can be made, and that's just as a bespoke, niche, enthusiast machine at $700. Something made into a more mainstream product even at "low" Xbox level sales could be made much more economically and hit a lower price point easily, and development would, like Steam Deck just have to have a target for that standard hardware build, while still just being a real PC game. All hypothetical of course, but I really just see no reason for them to not do that. The hardware/tech now exists. Steam did a lot of legwork on making a system for that on the business side, where even MS and Sony participate, with the Deck. It gets MS out of having truly separate console versions of things. It's just a logical direction to go.
I just don't see them suddenly not having a console and hoping everyone just jumps to cloud or $2500 PCs overnight, and leaving a substantial portion of their software sales on the editing floor anytime in the next 10-15 years. Cloud has to be viable enough to carry their whole software strategy, and that time hasn't come yet. It's not going to come in the near to mid future either. Someday it probably will and by that point Sony will be mostly cloud too. If that's where players are, it's where everyone will need to be. Even in "last place" that's still millions and millions of players in their store they would lose. It's not their whole business. It doesn't have to "win", but if it's selling millions of units to people that buy software, that's still money in the bank. Again, like Surface. It's far from the best selling laptop line, but it extends their overall brand footprint, in a market where Apple is always across the aisle.
@BlueBeemer Right, but, at the same time, I don't think there's any way it's not justifying it's manufacturing. From the latest, it hit 2 million sales in the UK. Which isn't great compared to PS and NIntendo. But that's 2 million Windows Store/GP customers in the UK alone they otherwise wouldn't have. Now add in US and everywhere else. Even if the console sells TERRIBLY, we're talking millions and millions of software/sub customers they don't have otherwise. It's not a zero sum game.
Series X, do keep in mind that the hardware components are also the foundation of the cloud server blades. So designing the X isn't JUST going into the console sales, that's what the whole cloud infrastructure is built from, so it's far from being an R&D/production waste. Kind of the opposite. It's feeding those components into the cloud racks that have created a lot of supply shortage on consoles. I know in the UK there's Xboxen on every shelf as high as the ceiling and across the channel, but in the US you actually can't just buy a Series X right now if you want one, you still have to wait for sign up lists and monitor stock searches. It's better than it was 3 years ago, but not good. It's still very supply constrained here. You can order a PS5 on Best Buy and Walmart no problem. Xbox you have to stock search. The fact that they're still selling out faster than they can resupply them in the #1 territory is a positive sign, though also a sign of mismanagement that you're overrun with them in the UK and we still can't get them to people looking for them.
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...