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Look, we're sick of hearing about the Microsoft and Activision Blizzard saga as you are, but you've got to admit, some of these details are just too juicy to ignore. In its ongoing attempts to appease the FTC, Microsoft has had to present a number of internal emails before the courts — and boy are they eye-opening. One such email saw Xbox boss Phil Spencer weighing up the advantages of buying SEGA's game studios (as well as Bungie), but this newly unearthed message arguably takes the cake.
"We (Microsoft) are in a very unique position to be able to go spend Sony out of business," wrote Xbox Game Studios head Matt Booty, in an email from December 2019. The Redmond-based tech giant was reportedly ready to spend several billion US dollars in order to further its plans for Xbox as a business. Of course, it did go on to buy ZeniMax Media (Bethesda) in 2020, for around $7.5 billion.
It's not a great look for a company that's now trying to convince competition authorities that its $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard is a good thing for the industry. But apparently, Microsoft insists that this is an outdated email, and that it never actually pursed this particular "spend Sony out of business" strategy (despite, as mentioned, spending $7.5 billion on ZeniMax Media just months later).
In any case, this is the kind of quote that you're going to see banded about the internet for a while. Obviously, one executive's choice of words in an email doesn't necessarily reflect their organisation at large, but the fact that such a strategy was mentioned at all perhaps tells us everything we need to know about Microsoft's perception of the games industry.
What do you make of all this? Flash the cash in the comments section below.
[source theverge.com]
Comments 217
Well that’s problematic.
Hypocritical snakes
Microsoft are the biggest hypocrites in the business. I’m smelling a monopoly in the making.
The funny thing is the full email talks about "outspending" Sony with 2-3 billion dollars. Fast forward a few years, and both Sony and Xbox have spent way more than that in acquisitions. Obviously, Xbox has spent way way more, but Bungie alone was 4 billion.
Wondered when this would be reported on.
There is the argument that yes this is business, and that is what it's all about.
But on the other, its an absolutely monsterous mindset from a company that time and time again has shown that it is clearly not to be trusted. Competition in the market place is not just nice to have - it's esential .
If Microsoft is successful in achieving its goals, then the landscape of gaming would look incredibly bleak.
And no, this is clearly still Microsoft's end game despite their protestations. They do not want Sony in the market. And as i said on another article, i hope developers really take note of Microsoft showing their true colours here.
Its hilarious to see this come out at the same time as they have been working to portray themselves as poor little microsoft who - in their words - have lost the console wars. When, in reality, they are clearly heating things up to a level never before seen in the industry.
And now people see why Microsoft buying up publishers is monopolistic, their way of thinking is disgusting. Instead of buying single developers and creating new IP's like Sony have done they would rather spend billions on huge existing IP's and hurt the competition to become relevant.
Hopefully the judge takes this email seriously and see's behind all of Microsofts deception.
This sounds like an evil plan by a cartoon villain
Let's be sensible guys, they're not really going to be trying anything like that. Sure they've got $69 billion burning a hole in their back pocket, on top of the 7.5 they spent on Bethesda, but?....... 🤔..... 😳
... I'll err... I'll get back to you.
.... Phil 'seems' nice though. 😂
This has to be lies people on PureXbox are always lecturing me on how Phil Spencer is a saint and Microsoft are a lovely company that just want to be everybody's friends.
@Rangers420 😂😂😂
Good guy Phil’s mask is slipping.
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That's a very unflattering email. Though their strategy has been pretty clear even without the email.
They need games to feed the beast that is Game Pass so what do they do? Try to buy up the entire industry. It's an ugly but effective strategy when you have bottomless pockets of cash like Microsoft.
I think Microsoft will focus Sony to buy a Publisher which I didn’t want but has to happen now.
@Rangers420 They do a good job of portraying exactly that notion to the public, that's for sure. Unfortunately, a lot of people are falling for it.
Outdated email but still actively implementing it. I understand Microsoft's reasoning but what disgusts me is they and their fanboys are acting like they are doing it for the sake of gamers. Pretty rubbish excuse.
Yeah I mean that's capitalism for you
Microsoft being Microsoft.
This is exactly why you don't listen to things that Phil Spencer says. You never know what other skeletons inside Microsoft's closet.
They are just fanboys. Neutrals don't fall for their pretty obvious lies.
Hopefully this works against them but i'm sure it won't.
@Wheatly unsurprisingly, how bill gates stole the original operating system from John kemeny in 1963 but not many know this, especially those that are team xbox . This basic program was then modified for ibm but it lead to anti-trust lawsuit. For extra reading - big blue : ibm's use and abuse of power by Richard delamarter
Love how people are going all celebratory on Phil showing true colors or what not, when the email was from Matt Booty. And if you go to The Verge source, they have a screenshot of at least part of the email opening up with "a different view to the general view below..." showing that whatever tangent he was going for was not what was being discussed or considered.
Anyways, at least attribute the evil villainess to the correct person.
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I’ve been saying for a long time actions matter more than words, this is just the latest example. They can claim that they abandoned the plan to outspend Sony, but when they go on to outspend everyone many times over it’s clear what’s happening. Do they think everyone is an idiot and believes every word they say?
I remember years ago a reviewer in a pc magazine comparing Microsoft to the Borg. Which always seemed pretty appropriate to me.
@Powerplay94 Thank God! I honestly thought it was just me thinking that.
You definitely wouldn't buy a used car off him would you?
... Or a games console, in my case. 😁
That email is 2019, he thought spending Sony out of business was going to be straightforward and clearly it hasn't been, they've hit a road block with this Activision deal. They might just not bother going forward, I mean Bing should've spent Google out of business, it didn't happen, your work and talents talks for you and PS Studios aren't short of those talents.
People like to say Sony have too much power in gaming but MS has too much power in everything and using that power to bully their way to the top.
It’s sad to see Xbox going from playing fair to cheating their way to the top with money. What Song does is what MS and Nintendo have always done themselves too and continue to do. The only difference is MS tripped themselves during Xbox One launch and now act like they are entitled to buying their way to the front again. They don’t market their product and don’t even try to do better. Just milk their already success franchises that was invented by others before being bought.
I think the world needs to wake up and remove those heart shaped glasses to see MS for what they are. We rely too much on them like countries relying on Russian oil. Threatened UK security over the blockage of this deal. Even if they get their way, they only gain even more power and who’s going to stop them if they don’t act now.
@johnny30
Damn... Bill Gates stole an OS when he was only 8 years old? Wild!!!
@Powerplay94 exactly. Jim is not a favourite person in the gaming industry but he clearl does not aim to be one - he is a businessman at the core.
Meanwhile, Phil tries to be this “hero” of the gaming world that only has the best intentions for gamers…
If you ask me, MS has really stelar PR and marketing teams. They are doing really amazing jobs promoting this Xbox sh*tshow in the last decade.
@TheArt Matt Booty thought it would only take 3 billion to outspend Sony!!!!
@Tharsman It goes all the way to the top!
But seriously Booty wouldn’t write an email like that if the idea hadn’t been floating about. It would be career suicide.
Imagine if Jim Ryan wrote an email to Herman Hulst giving him the ok to put Nintendo out of business via aggressive acquisitions. Wouldn’t happen.
If it did he’d get a foot soldier, someone under him to relay the message- to protect himself & the company.
@UltimateOtaku91 I believe the email was already dismissed by the same Judge in the Gamers Lawsuit. It's just one guys thoughts in a court of law.
When Booty was in court last week, he had to testify about this email. Pete Hines also had to testify about some of his emails aswell.
Not sure why the email has blew up again today, when it was discussed ad nauseum last week
Microsoft more like Monopolysoft
@UltimateOtaku91 The judge basically disregarded this email entirely, as it's irrelevant. This was the email brought fourth to her in the nonsensical "gamers trial" and she basically told them all to go home.
@Wheatly
You can get the full story here. There was no stealing, and it occurred in 1981, not 1963. Gates was 8 years old in 1963.
Microsoft is led by very bad corporates. Sony on the other hand which has a CFO obsessed with growth (https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2023/02/sony-shakes-up-corporate-ladder-by-promoting-exec-obsessed-with-growth ) and which outspend Sega to take over its market ($299) and tried the same with Nintendo and Microsoft is a very good company.
@Fight_Teza_Fight you mean like the email where Jim Ryan said he knew for a fact that CoD would not become exclusive under the ABK acquisition even before the deal was announced, and also stated that even if it did, Sony would be more than OK thanks to all the things they had cooking? And how he then went and lied to every regulator in the world?
Maybe you are right about such emails being career suicide and Jim gets fired after his email is the thing that makes the ABK deal goes through!
@Sakai because of clicks
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@SplooshDmg wasn't that a different email about matt booty saying they want to run sony out of business.
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This Judge is presiding over a case that's centered around a $69 billion dollar acquisition, and has been presented with an email that provides irrefutable proof of Microsofts intent to financially muscle rival platforms out of business. I'd be willing to bet it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference and this still gets passed.
@GodofCapcom I didn't give my opinion on anything. I never said if I am pro or against the merger. I present some facts about the topic that were missing from the article to help people. @UltimateOtaku91 is a friend on here who I talk with alot. If that's your idea of being a fanboy I don't know what to tell you lol. What a wierd comment
Sony takes away from others as well. They bought studios that have released multiplatform games in the past. They do bribe studios to keep their games exclusive for a year+. They do what MS is doing, but on a budget. Defending Sony is just as foolish as defending MS.
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The day microsoft is the only gaming company ,is the day I buy myself a jigsaw
@KaijuKaiser
People on xbox just want McDonalds to be their main dish. It's close to wanting all games to be free to play.
I remember when the Zenimax deal was announced and I was lamenting it for all gamers as being bad and a bunch of people told me that there was NO WAY Xbox would leave money on the table and make any major games Xbox exclusive.
The reason why there are investigations into mergers etc. is for this very reason. Any major corporation would like to drive their rivals behind them and would do so if they had the resources and were allowed to. Sony would try the same if they could. All these acquisitions just aren't good for the industry ultimately.
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So if Xbox has bought nothing to the table, @GodofCapcom, does that mean you would be happy to see the brand fold? Currently, Xbox enjoys a market share of 16%, so if any of the three is going to fail, it will be Xbox.
Most agree that in reality, Nintendo is doing their own thing very successfully, and that the only one that Sony is really competing with is Xbox. However, no matter how much you cheer-lead for Sony, a world in which they have no competition is one that you will see enormous hikes in console and game prices. After all, if the only place you can play those games that Nintendo do not offer is on the PlayStation, then Sony can do what the hell it likes, and you have then just two choices; suck it up, or stop playing...
This is undoubtedly a bad turn of phrase, that many will employ whilst throwing shade at Microsoft, but it is not an official email or strategy. It is an email between two friends, where no caution was shown in their choice of words, as we all do in unguarded moments. Just as Ryan did when his email showed that he knew CoD would always be on the PlayStation, even though he then went around the World telling various regulators that Sony would fail without the game.
@GodofCapcom you obviously didnt read them very well then lol. Your the only one console warring in here. another one added to the ignore list
@UltimateOtaku91 No, this was the same email, as far as I understand. This is just the unsealed version what was previously redacted. I might be wrong, but to my knowledge this is that same email. This has all be a lot to keep up with, after all.
@Sakai
Like wise
@Fiendish-Beaver
If they can't compete, yes. Another will replace it. EA and Take Two could merge and make their own console. Sony doesn't need to have a monopoly if xbox goes out.
"People on xbox just want McDonalds to be their main dish. It's close to wanting all games to be free to play."
I would love to see your evidence for this, @GodofCapcom? Also, you do understand that the games on the Game Pass are not free, don't you? You do know that they pay a subscription fee.
Or are you suggesting that those that game on the PlayStation want to game for free too, now that they have a subscription service? It's also worth pointing out that there would be no service like it on the PlayStation were it not for the Game Pass. Sony only created one because they realised just how popular it is.
@GodofCapcom Oh, look. It's that really angry guy I laugh at in the comments because he likes to talk tough on the internet.
@Triumph741 and which publisher has Sony bought or studio ,that has predominantly made games for all systems ,who now make games only for ps ? And its hardly bribery ,all companies do this ,game pass is full of those yearly exclusives.
@Tharsman His job is to retain & grow value for their shareholders. These big corps don’t really care about the individual.
Having CoD on Gamepass & it then being full price on PS would bite into Sony’s market share of CoD even if it stayed on PS.
Jim Ryan wants that guaranteed 30% from as many yearly CoD games as possible. It’s their yearly 3rd party cash cow. CoD has been built to be the home of PlayStation since the mid PS4-era, that wouldn’t be the case if it was available Day 1 on gamepass.
Also Phil offering CoD to be on PS+ isn’t what Sony wants. Day 1 games still sell on PS as shown by their own reluctance to not put 1st party titles up.
Phil or even Jim can’t be taken for their word that much is clear.
Elder Scrolls was meant to always come to all platforms due to legacy but Phil backtracked on that. He also said all existing contracts during acquisition would be honoured but backtracked on that with Starfield.
Jim said he believes in generations but backtracked on that.
Can’t take any of them by their word, but the way Phil has been trying to frame himself as this ‘good guy’ that just wants everyone to enjoy their games is just cringe.
At least Jim Ryan is a corporate suit that doesn’t really play video games & he owns it.
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@Sakai I mean, I genuinely don't get it. The second someone calls me a 'fanboy', I basically know I can instantly disregard anything they say as nonsense. I literally don't even own an Xbox. Lol
You are joking, right @GodofCapcom? There is no way that anyone other than a company with megabucks could enter the console market. EA and Take Two would not stand a chance at all. The only company that could develop a console that has a vast library of games is the Embracer Group, but that remains highly, highly doubtful.
Once Xbox has been crushed out of the market by Sony, no one is going to want to chance their arm. If a company like Xbox, with the backing of a trillion dollar company, cannot compete in the market, then there will be no new contenders...
@Fiendish-Beaver
EA and Take Two would do a much better job. You can clearly see games > money.
The 2k, GTA, fifa, madden would suck out so many millions from sony's platform.
@tallythwack With the help of Google you can easily find a list of studios that Sony owns. A lot of them have released games for all sorts of other systems.
They are not better than MS, they simply have less money
This whole thing has descended into a trailer trash race to the bottom for all involved parties... And I'm here for it.
You are right to say these guys cannot be taken at their word, @Fight_Teza_Fight, but Spencer said that existing games would remain on the PlayStation. He was not talking about games that had not even started development, which Elder Scrolls still hasn't. Further, in relation to Elder Scrolls, he has not said it won't be on the PlayStation. That decision still has to be made, though I suspect that it is highly likely to be an Xbox console exclusive.
Also, I think you will find that there was no contract regarding Starfield. For there to be a contract, it would have to involve at least two parties; in this case Bethesda and Sony. For the contract to be ended, it would have to be breached, in which case Sony would have sued, or both parties would have had to agree to dissolve the contract, something that Sony is highly unlikely to have done. Bethesda honoured the contracts for both Ghostwire Tokyo and Deathloop, so there is no reason to think that they would not have done so for Starfield had there been one.
@Fight_Teza_Fight Partially agree with most what you said, but thats beside the point.
My point was that you claim emails like Matt Booty's are only sent if everyone agrees with that mindset.
Jim sent an email clearly stating no worries about exclusivity, then went to talk about fears of exclusivity to regulators. Not about GamePass day one, but about something that is now obviously a lie. His email will make all concerns Sony brings up going forward meaningless.
Just because an email is sent that disagrees with the stance of most others in the company does not mean that the person is going to be fired. Jim won't be fired over that email, and Matt Booty would not be afraid of express contradicting opinions simply because he sent an email.
Also: the reason this email is an exhibit is because during discovery they got access to all of Microsoft's communications. If that email is the only email that voices that opinion, I think its safe to say no one else agreed with the stance. You can bet the FTC would bring every other email that did, if there was any more agreement with the sentiment.
No need for the 'fanboy' comments, please.
Please be constructive and respectful to each other when chatting here.
https://www.pushsquare.com/rules
@Triumph741 why should I waste my time on a question I already know the answer too ,Sony have never bought any publisher or studio who have previously made solely multiplatform games,a quick Google search from yourself would prove this.
Here we go. Hopefully the Xbox defenders can stop pretending Microsoft cares about the market in the least. This has always been their modus operandi.
They don't want competition cause they can't beat it. So they pull on their reserves to break the market so they can monopolise it. Bad for consumers all around.
Microsoft is not a "good guy". They never were. They did this before and will do again if permitted.
So glad the UK authority saw right through them. Very disappointed in the EU regulators for not having done the same.
No, this site is a big liar! Micky will balance the competition! Even though they are trying to buy everything they can they just want competition./s
I get so much conflicting information on this acquisition thing, which is frustrating because I need to know which Fortune 500 company I should swear my undying allegiance to.
@Fiendish-Beaver I guess you’re right on the Starfield situation as the game was in development for PS, but then cancelled.
However with Elder Scrolls it’s been murky to say the least. There have been contradictory statements on that front.
@Tharsman You could very well be right. I just don’t think someone says we could outspent the competition without it having some sort resonance behind the scene. No one would put that out there in an internal correspondence.
Also I really don’t care for ABK. Don’t play CoD, never got into Crash & only dabble in Diablo, but I can certainly see why Sony would do everything in their power to drag their feet on this one.
Would be much more devastated if SEGA, Square or Capcom went.
Anyone that's been paying attention since before the first Xbox even released knew this is what MS was going for in the industry. Simply buy out the talent because they have none of their own.
I honestly hope this email is the final nail in the coffin of the buyout. Not because I care about anything Activision does, but because they and other large conglomerates need a solid gut punch every now and again.
Microsoft proving that they're the kid who takes their ball and goes home.
@themightyant When I hear Phil Spencer speak I think of a quote from Edward Bernays: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organised habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society."
If anyone doesn't know Bernays, he was a pioneer of modern PR and propaganda.
I studied him in college quite a bit. Since 2014, every time I hear someone from XBOX speak I think of Bernays and I weigh everything they say against his approaches to mass manipulation. Known in the corporate world as advertising, PR, marketing etc.
That's been Microsofts plan ever since the first Xbox. Can't win against Sony so let's win with our wallets.
@Sakai @SplooshDmg ah I see I thought it was a different email but as you say the one reported last week was redacted but apparently was read as "running sony out of business" instead of this one which is "out spending sony", as both to me mean totally different things but could imply the same outcome.
Both sides are as bad as each other. The only things separating them are the money they have to spend and their current positions in the market. Sony themselves have plenty of fun things coming up live service wise that aren't necessarily consumer friendly and out of both companies their policies of 'pay to keep off Xbox' as well as the fact the outright do not allow any developer to sell even digital codes of their own games so that Sony has complete control over all sales on their digital only playstation are signs that they aren't so developer or consumer friendly either. Both companies are evils we are long used to. All corporations are and fanboys on either side acting like 1 is 'nicer' than the other are delusional.
@Tharsman This has been the really interesting part of this trial. There's been a lot of emails where you can tell that the higher ups at MS don't really agree with one another. When Bethesda was bought, we heard things like "First, better or best" then we got "case by case" then we got "We bought Bethesda to make exclusives for Xbox". I really do think comms like this shed some light into why consumers have been confused, because there really isn't a set-in stone playbook and they're basically still arguing about it at HQ. Sort of like Phil said the other day, there was talks to make Minecraft Dungeons exclusive to PC and Xbox, but here we are today, and it isn't. Because those talks obviously didn't end with exclusive to Xbox and PC.
@Shepherd_Tallon
Did you ever read 'Bernays and Breakfast'? Summarizes how susceptible people are to marketing, even (or especially) the savvy customers who think they are immune to it. Yeah, I definitely see some parallels.
@Kierant202 No doubt about that.
Both sides want to win at all costs.
The only differences between XBOX and PlayStation are one has infinitely more money and is pretending the be nice about what they do.
But I agree, in all other aspects they are the same.
They’ve been doing this for years. I remember way back in ‘98 when big green bought out Compu-Global-Hyper-Mega-Net. That really got ugly.
@Shepherd_Tallon 100% agreed. It's not just Xbox, it's ALL of them, a whole pit of smiling knives.
It just frustrates me how blind so many seem to be, on ALL sides, defending the indefensible and sucking up all that spin like it's soda.
I was trying to explain to a few people on PX that this case shows EVERYONE in a bad light, that they are all two faced, but many were having none of it. Sony is the devil, Xbox are saints etc. It's just as bad over here with some stuff, immediately jumping to defend their brand without a conscious thought. I start to wonder why I even bother to post sometimes. Too many fanboys.
@UltimateOtaku91 Right, I think there really has to be a way to show actual real intent, and I just don't think this email does. MS is obviously in a position to spend Sony out of business, but honestly, that wouldn't benefit them. The same way a regulator can't try to block a merger, a regulator can try to force divesture of assets. If for example Sony did for whatever reason go bust, the governments could then start trying to legally force MS to shrink its gaming division by selling something like ABK or Bethesda, because they wouldn't really have a viable competitor at that point. This trial here has nothing to do with MS's size. This trial is only exploring whether this merger would decrease or increase competition. There are arguments for both sides of it, it's up to the judge to determine which is greater or lesser.
@UnlimitedSevens I saw a recorded interview with him once where it looked like he was having breakfast with his family while talking to an interviewer.
Maybe it was the same thing?
But yes, he just talked about how easy it is to manipulate the masses like it was nothing. It was a real eye opener for me.
After that I became very much aware that in many cases I was believing what I wanted to believe or what was convenient for my opinions, without really digging in to the facts and looking at things for myself.
@BeerIsAwesome ooohhh that’s nothing! I’m a Yorkshire man with no arms with deep pockets that I can’t reach in to buy every studio that exist!
On one hand, that's a damning statement, on the other hand it's a statement tossed out in an email by an exec that was not the final say so on a strategy that doesn't seem to have actually been executed, while they did seem to target M&A, there seems to have been no actual focus on this. And the email is from a guy that seems to have a total inability to manage studios and ship on time. Yes, he's factually correct, they DO have the unique position of being able to spend Sony out of business. It's a true observation anyone here could have made back then, too. But they don't seem to be doing it (no, ABK isn't that). Or even securing their own wins most of the time.
I don't think this is informative about MS's actual policy in the market or an actual focus on Sony. It mostly seems to demonstrate they don't seem to have an actual focused direction at all. Maybe if they'd been gunning for Sony specifically they'd have walked away in a more competitive position than dead last by a country mile. But instead they meandered to cloud, and then to services, and then delayed games, and then raised prices and seem to do anything but trying to take on Sony directly, which has seen Sony walk away with their momentum and market share. Again.
Nobody helps Sony succeed quite like Xbox. Which really sucks for PS customers because nobody helps Sony shaft us quite like Xbox.
The only thing everyone can agree on is that Matt Booty has the most memeable name in gaming.
@Shepherd_Tallon
It talks about how in the early 1900s, it would have been really odd and bizarre to eat eggs and bacon for breakfast. Nowadays, it's normal. That's because Bernays, in the employ of companies that wanted to sell more eggs and bacon, used his new marketing tactics to normalize it. And obviously succeeded.
Poof, now nobody remembers or knows you would have been thought of as a crazy person to eat eggs for breakfast back then. We are all sheep apparently able to be guided this way or that fairly easily it seems!
@themightyant Oh it's very frustrating to see it all sometimes.
Currently there are two arguments doing the rounds regarding MS and Sony that conveniently ignore each others points:
It's different versions of the same thing.
I agree that what Sony do is the lesser of two evils and that MS should compete in the same way rather than buying publishers, but it's more or less the same thing - Starve each other of content.
I would add though that I'm sure Sony don't think they can put XBOX out of business.
Microsoft: Pay it no mind,old strategy,its a joke!!
Also Microsoft Xbox since 2019,spent 7.5 billion on Zenimax Bethesda & immediately cancelled all PS5 versions not under contract,& keeps referring solely to COD in sketchy "ten year deals",with Activision Blizzard...not to mention seemingly having a shopping list of multiple others like Sega, Io Interactive etc.🙄
@NEStalgia He's just on a never-ending quest for Booty... In the form of... Gaming studios.
Microsoft is horrible.cant beat PlayStation.so they trying to buy all the big publishers so the games wont come to PlayStation.and PlayStation is still beating them.haha.word up son
@Shepherd_Tallon I have been saying the same thing repeatedly.
Ultimately both of the companies are two different sides of the same coin.
Like I said on PureXbox:
Win or lose, I have a feeling the things discovered during these FTC hearings could have a huge impact on the relationship between Sony and Microsoft.
Also, let's not forget that back in 2019, Microsoft and Sony went into a strategic partnership to advance cloud gaming and AI:
“The two companies will explore joint development of future cloud solutions in Microsoft Azure to support their respective game and content-streaming services,”
Pretty much all the things I've been preaching about have been coming to light with tangible proof. This is really tarnishing Microsoft's reputation as "the good guys of gaming".
I'm going to make another prediction that if this deal goes through they'll raise the price of gamepass and use call of duty as incentive for people to continue paying for it. Just like the friends of gamers that they are.
@UnlimitedSevens I hadn't heard that one!
It's so true though.
The one I was first taught, which is more or less the same thing, was how he helped cigarette companies to expand their markets.
At one point only men smoked, but the companies could potentially double their market if they could get around the taboo of women smoking.
So Bernays had a group of wealthy female debutants at a parade march down the street smoking. The pictures were in every paper.
Young women saw it as an act of rebellion in the search for equality.
Naturally, they started to smoke.
Bernays very very easily linked cigarettes to ideas of rebellion and gender equality, and the cigarette companies increased their market size. 🤷
This is why it is so important the ABK acquisition is blocked. If it isn't, it means that buying two publishers in two years to try and hurt competitors is not a red line and Microsoft would just continue with their strategy of spending their way to dominance (the only way they operate).
But don't worry, guys. Microsoft said they are the feisty, permanently-in-third-place, super-mistreated underdogs!
@Shepherd_Tallon
I hadn't heard that. Tying women smoking to equality and the women's suffrage movement... That's pure, diabolical genius. Guy was dangerous.
@GamingFan4Lyf
I keep forgetting about that cloud partnership they formed.
I hadn't thought about that at all in the context of this deal.
Although I'm sure if there's money to be made they'll keep on going with that too.
@UnlimitedSevens "Diabolical" is the exact word I thought of when I first heard about it too.
@NEStalgia their buying up of other companies doesn't seem like a slow march toward the goal of market domination? true there's been some meandering and seemingly aimless decisions elsewhere but this hasn't really detracted from a clear overall focus on acquisitions.
@Rob_230 "they do not want Sony in the market" - can you point to any business that wants another company competing in the same market as themselves?
From an individual business perspective, the less competition the better - Sony would happily delete Microsoft and Nintendo if it were within their power to do so.
Competition only serves to benefit consumers, not individual businesses. Innovation, lower pricing, higher quality goods/services and more choice are all byproducts of competition, none of which are concerning to a business which only exists to maximise profit. Competition merely stifles company profits.
@UnlimitedSevens True but eggs and bacon are GOOD!
Microsoft have found themselves in an unflattering position where internal emails are contradicting their rhetoric in public. It makes them look disingenuous and hurts their image in the gaming community. It will be hard not to scoff the next time they get on stage and claim to be the good guys, that only want good things for all gamers.
Also, the defense that the email was sent 3 years ago is a very weak one. That and that alone may cost them heavily.
While I don't think it's the end of the world if this transaction goes through, it would effectively give Microsoft the green light to continue this spending spree which by its very nature is an admission that they're incapable of creating competitive experiences despite having far more resources.
However, while I agree they are the losing side as of today, it does not mean that they can't turn things around without having to resort to buying all of the big publishers. This is lazy and it provokes and disrupts fans of the games that are affected.
The very fact that they did not immediately announce that call of duty was staying on playstation when the deal was announced shows that causing anxiety in the community is not an issue for them.
@themightyant
You are preaching to the choir here. Apparently they used to eat white rice and cold meat for breakfast until the 1920s, which I deem to be a crime against humanity.
This could land Microsoft in hot water. I once attended a training session with my employer's lawyer. I learned that Emails are legal documents, and phrases like "we're going to destroy the competition" are taken very seriously.
Let's hope this will be accepted. Phil is talking with a split toung he is wearing a mask and lies through his teeth about honest competition.
@UnlimitedSevens Rice and meat is grand too. Beats cereal in my book!
@Fiendish-Beaver Told you some people will spin anything so they don't have to see the truth i guess you made my point.
Shepherd_Tallon wrote:
I agree that they can't outspend or bankrupt Microsoft. But it's clear their strategy was to sideline them as much as possible, leveraging their dominance in the industry, likely in the hope that Microsoft would give up and move on. It was the smart play.
And that sounds like it wasn't that far from reality once Satya Nadella took over and re-evaluated Microsoft's direction. It seems that Phil Spencer convinced him to double down on Xbox rather than shuttering them. Which as much as I dislike Microsoft buying up everything I think it's better than the alternative of them leaving Sony unchallenged in the HD console space. This will make Sony work harder for us and keep them honest.
Could this be their new “embrace, extend, extinguish” moment? Doubtful. Regulatory bodies are toothless, at least in the US.
They wound up not buying those studios. But hey, console companies gonna console companies.
Just trying to be logical here: isn't it normal for a company to try and put their competitors out of business?
Ah, Microsoft.....it's almost like the word hubris could have been invented especially for you.
@DreamlandGem
but an article like this naturally also asks for it. Not necessary, but the title says it all.
@Foxhound hypocritical snakes, a new branch of the le'fant terrible super soldier program?
As usual Americans thinking money can solve all problems. Oopsy, not this time
@Triumph741 a timed exclusive isn’t a bribe! Xbox 360 had numerous timed exclusives. Back then sales were close, so it was ok then but not now?
@TheArtfulDodger it’s ok now but so is buying up companies, since all three big companies: Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, do so.
@zupertramp Acquisitions in general isn't the same as a strategy of acquisitions targeted specifically at the total destruction of a competitor though. And whatever strategy Booty was thinking of to "spend Sony out of business" may not have been referring to acquisitions at all. The most obvious that comes to mind is the Walmart strategy that Amazon then later used, of simply undercutting competitors massively by taking a loss on core business lines until competitors are eliminated. Direct spending on maximizing platform adoption would go much farther than endless acquisitions to try to sway customers slowly. I don't think Game Pass is that at all, but there are many here that do think so. "Spending Sony out of business" by taking losses, and making Sony simply the unappealing choice would have been a proven, effective strategy.
But they didn't do that. Instead they flail around from idea to idea, and not one of the things actually done seems really aimed at Sony at all. Which makes sense on one level, Sony may dominate console but the thing is console is a really small part of the gaming industry. Even if they did "spend Sony out of business" all they'd end up with is Sonys market which is a smaller market than they probably want by multiples.
I think that goes back to Jim's "they're thinking bigger than that" ..."we'll be fine" email re ABK. I think he sees what they're going for and sees it's bigger than Sony's market, but ultimately doesn't directly harm Sony's market either. It presents inconveniences to Sony's profits, but doesn't damage their core business. Among PS fans, people seem to assume ABK is all about taking CoD from Sony to crush them, but, following the saga, I still believe ABK is 100% about King and mobile first, PC footprint expansion second, additional content production for services third, and CoD is just a convenient perk along for the ride.
If there's one thing Xbox console owners know it's that consoles are not MS's focus....Sucks as an Xbox owner because it feels low priority often. Sucks as a PS owner because PS just gets away running amuck without serious competition. But their focus is definitely elsewhere, in that mobile and PC space. If they had actually tried to tackle Sony directly though it could have been a glorious return to the 16/32 bit days of intense competition and both companies fighting for every sale instead of this 75/25+/- split.
@McBurn neither is it normal nor it common. Most companies simply try to be successful, not to destroy the competition.
@UnlimitedSevens But did it actually take a marketing genius to convince people that eggs and bacon are better than rice and cold meat? That's more of a common sense thing, really.
@SplooshDmg It all started when Bobby got the Call of Booty.
@Shepherd_Tallon That was a boost, but, cigarettes were designed for women from the start. Men smoked cigars at the time. Cigar-ettes were the daintier, feminine cigar for women.
@themightyant Yes absolutely true. They were trying to turn XBOX in to a desert with regards to big third party content.
I don't doubt that.
EDIT: Combined with what happened in 2013 and XBOX's lack of first party IP, they made it very easy for PlayStation. TBF, MS tried their own exclusivity deals too, but with the lack of first party and brand momentum it just didn't have the same impact.
They couldn't compete, and now here we are.
I also agree that, regardless of the outcome, all of this will definitely make Sony work harder which is very much a good thing for us.
after all this time , 4 console generations later the mask has finally slipped.
The real Microsoft is showing its ugly face
Shame.
Removed - unconstructive
Removed - discussing moderation
Don't forget, Microsoft's first play to get into the console space was to buy Nintendo. They were laughed out of Japan and the Xbox was born.
"We're just trying to help the gaming industry grow and evolve, I swear we're not trying to create a monopoly. Will these secret emails about how we want to spend our competition out of business convince you that I'm being sincere?"
@themightyant It feels like the only future outcomes are the extremes, that either:
1. Microsoft ends up being allowed to acquire everything using their "last place" excuse, kicking Sony and Nintendo out of gaming in the process to form the future where the only way to play games is via the cloud using a Game Pass subscription.
2. Microsoft gets blocked acquiring stuff resulting in Microsoft eventually giving up on the Xbox brand because it's not profitable. Cloud gaming is dead meanwhile Sony and Nintendo happily coexist in their traditional ways (consoles that play games natively) because hybrid gaming will always be a case of compromising power to enable portability of which Sony values power a lot more.
Out of those 2 options, option 2 is a lot more positive for gaming. Option 1 would be absolutely terrible for gaming.
@Neither_scene imo that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things.
Take VR for example. Sony have stated that they want the competition, because VR hasn't taken off yet. So, if Apple, Google, Facebook or any other company makes it more popular, Sony can benefit from it.
Same with things like Escape Rooms. If there is only one, it's unlikely it will attract much attention (have everyone talking about it) and become mainstream, but if there are many and you see all your friends posting about it, you may end up giving it a try yourself.
If MS and Ninty went bust, it wouldn't mean that all those gamers would suddenly flock to Sony. Some would give up on gaming altogether and others wouldn't be interested in Sony's games. So, Sony needs to make a variety of games whether or not they have competition. Even during the ps2 days (with little to no competition), most of their first party games didn't sell all that well. Just because you're the only option, it doesn't mean people will choose/buy your products.
Also, competition can both harm and benefit gamers. We may get lower prices (though not always), but we may lose access to games that were traditionally released on all consoles capable of running them. So we don't always win when there is competition.
I am at a loss, @Flaming_Kaiser. First off, your comment directed at me is the only one of yours I can find as I think your other comment has been deleted.
I'm not sure what it is that I have said that you disagree with that. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
I'm not trying to put a spin on anything. I always set out to be very balanced and attempt to put forward reasoned and evidenced arguments. Of course, when you come to a PlayStation website and argue for some proportion when it comes to Xbox, it can stir the pot. That's not what I'm attempting to do. I am trying to put forward a reasoned argument as to why some may wish to view what's being said slightly differently.
@naruball Agreeing with your points as I do on 99.9999% of occasions. 😌
I absolutely agree with you that the comments can be viewed as contradictory, @Fight_Teza_Fight. I guess we won't know until much closer to the release of the game what platforms it will be on. Who knows what the gaming landscape will look like in another 6 or 7 years (at the earliest, I would imagine). Likely as not Elder Scrolls will be releasing on the next generation of console, possibly even as a launch title. If that is the case, I can absolutely see it as being an Xbox exclusive as it could be a deciding factor for some which console they look to buy...
@Grumblevolcano It may feel like those are the only 2 options, but I disagree the reality is we will see something far more in the middle. Xbox staying in the console race is imperative, Sony left up to their own devices unchecked would be the worst timeline. As it is Sony will have to improve.
@Shepherd_Tallon wow. Really? That's nice to hear
@Fiendish-Beaver i mean, if amazon and google are not even able to enter the gaming atmosphere, there’s absolutely no competition for Sony next to Xbox and Nintendo.
I’m happy that Sony gets to be put on their toes a little.
it really does feel like microsoft is in an act of desperation and has been for quite some time. i am under the belief that the xbox division has never turned a profit for the entirety of a console cycle which has resulted in the scenario that is being played out presently.
all the acquisitions we are seeing is a last ditch effort for xbox to buy its way to success but unfortunately for them, it will not turn out that way. even if the deal goes through and provides a short-term boost to their subscriber numbers, i don't think gamespass is a viable or sustainable service at its current price point. it is losing them money without a doubt.
phase 1 was to make the service enticing to people and buy as much market share as possible. but phase 2 will result in a major price hike to allow the service to become profitable, and that is where they will lose a big chunk of their subcriber base. i expect the price to double from its current price point in a few years time which will only cater the most hardcore players and little else.
in the end, i think the xbox division is in trouble regardless of what happens with ABK. we could very well see microsoft pull xbox hardware off the market next console cycle in order to save costs. don't be surprised if xbox presence is merely software and cloud gaming 7 years from now. as for nintendo and sony? it is safe to assume that they have many consoles in their future.
Article conveniently leaves out the first part of the sentence that Booty said “A different view to the general view below might be that”. He was presenting a different point of view to a group. Not saying this is what Microsoft would do. But whatever…
@ATaco They just did raise the price of gamepass. Gamepass on Xbox is now $10.99 and gamepass ultimate is $16.99 if they jack it up again too soon they will piss off too many people.
However, the judge didn't actually allow this into evidence because it was sent well before the Activision merger was announced. MS themselves said they never really pursued that. Uh, whatever. Still doesn't make them look good.
@naruball Oh for sure.
Often I come to the comments to make a point and see you've already made it.
Saves me from burning some calories on my keyboard.
Oh boy, that's an overreaction and then some, @UltimateOtaku91? It's an email sent between two people where they are passing comment on the position that Microsoft are in. They are not discussing a potential strategy .
This is what Matt Booty said, "A different view to the general view below might be that we (Microsoft) are in a very unique position to be able to go spend Sony out of business..."
So, Booty is saying what a different view could be. He is not saying this is the agenda that Microsoft should pursue. Saying that Microsoft could be seen as buying up the entire industry, is not the same thing as them actually doing it. Let's face it, if Microsoft really, really wanted to make this a reality, then they have the funds to buy every single developer and publisher out there. Not just some. Every single one of them. They could even make Sony an offer they would not wish to refuse.
As for growing their own developers, I've said this many times, but just how many homegrown games would Xbox have to release in order to lift themselves into second or first place from their current 16% market share.
Xbox does not have time to make all these games before their time could be up. Quite simply, they need the content now. If they do not get the ABK content then they will really struggle to improve their market share, and then there is the distinct possibility that there won't be a next Xbox at all. The ABK acquisition means that much to them.
If you think that a gaming World in which only Sony exists is one that you would happily exist, then you will likely also be happy to see a huge hike in console and game pricing., At the moment, the only company that is keeping prices low on the PlayStation is Xbox. If they go out of business, then you can kiss that goodbye...
@themightyant I’ll admit that Sony unchecked wouldn’t be great… but Microsoft being unchecked and being the only game in town would definitely be the less desirable timeline for sure.
You are 100% right, @Friendly. If Xbox were to stop trading, I honestly don't think anyone will step in to fill the void. If a company with a trillion dollar parent cannot compete, then no one could. They certainly couldn't do it from scratch. Indeed, if it were that easy for a competitor to enter the market with a new console, why have we gone 20 years plus with just two 'high-end' consoles...?
@colonelkilgore I don't think either of them being unchecked is a tolerable timeline. I think most of us would just have to get new hobbies or go back to PC.
@Grumblevolcano Honestly I don't see Sony as a console monopoly/Nintendo as a handheld monopoly outcome any less of a negative than cloud-only where there's bound to be multiple distribution channels and peripherals.
Not saying I want a cloud-only future either, but this idea that "as long as Sony and Nintendo each have monopoly over their domain and remain unchallenged, gaming is saved" is no less dire.
Ideal outcome is MS/Sony get close to 50/50 split. no farther than 60/40, or console market share splits to non-console products (mobile, cloud, PC, whatever.) Non-ideal outcome is basically anything else. Either way Nintendo will keep screwing us and we'll keep bending over because we have no self respect.
@Fiendish-Beaver That's fine then so after the ABK deal goes through surely thats enough content, developers and IP's for them to not only catch up to Sony but easily overtake them as now they will be on top in terms of revenue and have the most developer's and double the IP's to their name.
So if Microsoft were to continue to spend unrivaled money on even more Publishers after the ABK deal then surely that would mean they are out for blood and want sony gone.
I fully understand where you are coming from but Microsoft are in a position that once they become the market leader theres absolutely no one who could challenge them due the difference in available funds to spend. You think sony would only be buying independent developers if they had the money to buy multiple Publishers, probably struggle to buy even one.
@NEStalgia I strongly agree that the ideal outcome is MS/Sony getting close to a 50/50 share (or new feasible competition entering the arena), but how we get there should be through fair competition.
In regards to the ABK deal, we keep discussing everything but the actual issue: US antitrust law. Will the acquisition SUBSTANTIALLY lessen competition or lead to a monopoly? The argument that Sony does the same thing is irrelevant to this deal. If they do the same thing, it should be scrutinized as well (note that both the Bethesda and the Bungie deals were cleared by the FTC). What is relevant is that this deal is an order of magnitude greater than the Bethesda deal: that is 10 Bethesdas! That definitely justifies a hard look but shouldn't be the deciding factor.
For the record: I personally do not want the deal to happen. However, not because of the impact to Sony but rather because MS has not shown itself able to effectively nurture a game development studio. But my opinion on that is completely irrelevant to antitrust law. Additionally, I think the deal being approved will lead to greater competition. COD has not had a serious contender despite the complaints of its players. If the deal goes through, would Sony be incentivized to invest in developing a serious contender? Possibly.
Either way, MS and Sony will continue to pursue their respective and divergent paths in the gaming industry regardless of the outcome. Everything else is grandstanding for the courts.
Removed - trolling/baiting; user is banned
It's kinda sad that a company's biggest goal is to throw money around to get rid of the competition, instead of trying to be better then the competition with your own product.
Seriously, reading these articles about Microsoft just shows that they're a slimy, shady American company first and foremost.
I know Sony and Nintendo make questionable decisions too but at least they're not this bad.
@Deadlyblack I mean, that’s what Sony did? Their last shooter came out ten entire years ago. Their strategy has been “eh. We’ll pay someone else to do it.” It’s been that way with shooters, it’s been that way with JP style games.
They got their ass kicked by From Software last year and in response, they increased their share of the company.
NO APPROACH IS BETTER THAN THE ORHER PEOPLE. The results will be the same. Games of certain consoles and people crying about them.
This is flawed logic.
If they were to spend Sony out of the business I'd still never buy an Xbox. Lol
@YonkoBuggyTheClown From Soft doesn't make consoles, I'm only speaking in context of the big three in this situation, and Microsoft is definitely the most backwards.
They're last in console sales out of the three for how many years and didn't even want to share their sale numbers for a period of time. That's why they're trying to buy up as many devs/companies as they can so they can bolster Game Pass and use that as a crutch in the market to help sale numbers.
Even then that won't be enough, so the only strategy they want to implement then is to literally get rid of the competition, which is dumb cause it'll never happen unless both Sony and Nintendo implode on themselves.
@BeerIsAwesome you were lucky to have tabadashary, back then I had to take pilgrimage oop cobbled street to get mother her bread otherwise I would be paddled with a cricket bat by THE Geoff Boycott outside his house of ill repute. We didn’t have any of this “time” you had to look in’t shop windows
@BusyOlf yes, THEE Geoff Boycott!
But, but, but... They're just being competitive because they're an underdog that has never moved from third place!!
Will people who praise Microsoft finally get it in their heads that they're attempting to completely take over? And when they do you're all screwed. Trying to gouge you for gold? Raising prices? That always online crap? Do you think they would have backpedaled it there wasn't competition?
Be careful what you wish for. Slate Sony and Nintendo all you want but when Microsoft get their way you'll be begging for the good ol' days when the others were still around.
It's time to split Microsoft up. That includes moving the Xbox Game Studios and the Xbox brand out from under the Microsoft Umbrella. Put Windows into its own company. Office as well. Azure Cloud should also be its own entity.
It's clear that this huge tech conglomerit is abusing its wealth and position to bully multiple industries around to get what it wants.
I’m not going to read too much into it. When you’re number one, everybody is going to take shots at you. Obviously Sony isn’t going anywhere. Both companies do it to each other. None of them are innocent.
@NEStalgia idk, gamepass + acquisitions (of the most popular gaming IPs independently floating about) seems like a strategy of trying to spend Sony out of the market. You can't take whole franchises off another platform and say it has nothing to do with trying to harm that platform. Just because it's falling doesn't mean it isn't part of that plan. Do they wanna expand their mobile and PC? Sure. But to say beating Sony, the competitor trouncing them in the console space, isn't a focus... that's just not in line with the actions they've thus far taken to undermine the options available to PlayStation players.
And I don't see any of this as evil, mind you. MS isn't the bad guy. But that doesn't change that it seems obvious they are trying to leverage their power and size here.
Microsoft wants Xbox to 'reach industry leadership' by 2030, plans to double Xbox revenues
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/92099/microsoft-wants-xbox-to-reach-industry-leadership-by-2030-plans-double-revenues/index.html
If that doesn't seal (or rather unseal) the deal, I don't know what will.
@Tharsman Microsoft underestimating how deep Sony pockets is not an cause for celebration.
Netscape rolling over in their grave over this stuff. Microsoft still up to the same antics that landed them an antitrust lawsuit 20+ years ago. Shocking!
New story circling that apparantly Bethesda isn't happy that Activision is being treated differently regarding multiplatform. So see you all on that monster thread when it appears on here
@zupertramp I think there's a lot of viewing from "within" the Sony bubble in places like this rather than stepping outside it and looking at the broader market though. Yes, they're buying some popular franchises and keeping exclusivity over them. Yes, PS-owners aren't happy about that and that's fair. But realistically, the end result is: both companies are looking to secure control over content, and both have had different means of doing so. Net result, both companies succeed via different means of having control over content for themselves, while MS, until now, has had no success securing any content, because of blunders made 10-20 years ago. Then there's the sort of emotional view of "but they're buying all the games!" yet if we look at the catalog on both PS and Xbox ,does MS own them all? No. Do they own most of them? No. The knee-jerk perception doesn't match the reality which seems bigger than reality because it's high profile.
In this case, CoD is the only franchise that anyone is concerned about as "harming" the market. No regulator has freaked out over the market effects of Spyro and Soldier of Fortune never coming to Playstation. No regulator would ever care. Jim wouldn't care either, because the market net effect is nada. And that's why they're obsessed with CoD, and that's why MS has had no problem offering up all these guarantees on CoD, because they really don't care. They want the biggest name in mobile. They want to expand their weak footprint on PC. Sure they want to bolster their console business. But console's a bit player in the overall gaming industry. It's not even relevant in much of the globe.
For perspective, King's revenue for 2022 was 2.7B. Playstation's operating profit was 2.6B. Now Playstations REVENUE was 26.something B, but their costs are astronomical while King's are minuscule. I can't locate kings operating profit for 2022, but based on 2020 ,their opex is very small. In all likelihood the profitability of King alone isn't that far off the mark of the total profits of Playstation itself give or take a billion or two.
Which brings us back to why would MS spend $70b for the primary intent of trying to strike a major play into the destruction of Playstation? The answer is: They wouldn't. Which is why they never planned on taking CoD away at least for many years and Jim's own leak tells us he never believed so either. It just wouldn't make sense. Does it damage PS's profits? Yes. Does it damage PS's business? No, it's a play at something else. It's just not aimed at burying Sony thorough buying CoD, and taking Spyro away isn't going to break PS. Or even make them notice a dip in their quarterlies. But it may help MS in some areas be competitive while they make a giant foothold in the mobile arena that's worth 30 Playstations. (the company, not a box full of consoles....though physically they occupy as much space lol)
Also, though if you haven't seen it, it's worth checking the full text as the above quote is somewhat out of context. It was part of a conversation on subscription services and the idea that Sony was the only one in a position to compete with GP and could become the "Disney of gaming." It's not a great look either way, but the media is having a field day with stoking emotions with out of context half quotes, too.
@NEStalgia Microsoft certainly would've taken call of duty away from playstation if they thought they could seal the deal without promising otherwise.
They were going through the exact motions as starfield, and now elder scrolls, before they were compelled to promise anything. 'oh maybe we will, maybe we won't, who knows? Actually we're not going to'.
I mean, we didn't exactly need them to say it, did we?
Truthfully, @UltimateOtaku91, Microsoft buying ABK is barely going to make a dent in the player-base numbers. Currently the split is 70% of gamers play on the PlayStation. 30% game on the Xbox. For Xbox to overtake PlayStation, they would need 21% of gamers to switch from the PlayStation to the Xbox. Can you really see that happening? Especially now that digital gaming is what the majority do. This is what Spencer was talking about when he said that Xbox had lost the most important generation during the period of the Xbox One/PS4. People were building huge libraries of games digitally. People don't tend to switch their allegiance anyway, so once they are gaming on the PlayStation, that's what they will do each and every generation. That's even more true now that people have built these digital libraries, as switching consoles means being unable to play all those games they have bought. Most people just won't do that. We certainly won't see 21% of people selling their PlayStations and moving over to Xbox. If there is any movement in the numbers, it will likely be at the beginning of the next generation, and even then, I don't think the numbers will be particularly remarkable, particularly so when you consider that Call of Duty will still be playable on the PlayStation. Where is the need to switch to the Xbox, if you can still play the games you want on the PlayStation?
@Tharsman "Fast forward a few years, and both Sony and Xbox have spent way more than that in acquisitions."
Sony was obviously forced into this escalation game, but they know they can't compete. And that's exactly when market authorities such as the FTC must come in and tip the scales in order to guarantee fair play.
The ABK deal is nothing but a (massive) piece in the puzzle and cannot be looked at in isolation.
@Fiendish-Beaver Amen. This guy knows. Very rare to find a sensible person on these sites.
@Fiendish-Beaver To be fair and to play devil's advocate here, gaming moves in human generations. The old fogeys play PS now. If MS can get the kids into XB now, for the very reason we ancients won't leave PS behind is the reason those kids won't leave XB behind, when PS becomes the brand of games grandpa played.
But that also assumes MS can actually get those kids to start with XB which right now doesn't seem the trend.
@Balosi Maybe they would have, but again, we have the leaked email from Jim saying he didn't believe they would, and recall that MS called Sony (Japan) immediately after the deal began, so there was dialogue between the two that his view was shaped by from the start (regardless of his masquerade to regulators.) This is a case where spectators are assuming a more aggressive stance against PS than PS's own CEO believed was the case.
I don't like Jim's leadership but he's not that dense.
@tallythwack look up Psygnosis.
@Rangers420 Anyone who believes that is unfamiliar with Microsoft's past business activities. They are a monstrous company.
@Fiendish-Beaver We have antitrust bodies to stop unfair business practices - they need to start doing their jobs.
If MS managed to get Activision following on from Bethesda and were then to somehow acquire EA & Rockstar they'd have every major 3rd party title pretty much sewn up.
It would be completely unfair but it would be the end of Playstation if that happened.
@themightyant They didn't abandon the plan to outspend Sony though. The email is dated not long before the ZeniMax purchase. They actually acted on the suggestion in the email.
Remember, when the ZeniMax deal was being scrutinized by antitrust bodies MS said they had no incentive to withhold games from PlayStation but as soon as the deal was done they immediately ordered Bethesda to make all its upcoming games Xbox exclusive including Starfield which they already had running on PlayStation hardware. Bethesda are apparently not to happy about it either. People need to realise Microsoft are liars and Phil Spencer's I'm your pal act is totally fake.
https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/27/microsoft-forced-bethesda-to-do-xbox-exclusives-and-theyre-not-happy-19024969/
@themightyant "Do they think everyone is an idiot and believes every word they say?"
No, they think they can throw their weight around and bulldoze this acquisition. Just look at what's happening in the UK, where Microsoft has straight out threatened to pull their business out. It's sickening.
Not to mention the lobbying and god knows what else.
They bought Zenimax. Try to buy out ABK and make a move on SEGA? Then get found out their stance on "protecting" gaming is a big fat lie from the truth of trying to extinguish everything else?
Sniff Sniff is that possibly an anti-trust I smell in the wind? I certainly hope so.
All that rubbish about being a bullied underdog that can't compete when they're taking the slow road. If that doesn't result in a ban of being allowed to make massive purchases the others can't match nothing will. This proves they're not trying to compete, they're trying to slowly monopolize. If it's not blocked and sanctioned. Gaming is done for.
Phil won't be able to hold his head high after this unless he's got some serious nerve after years of saying he's about "protecting" the industry and "gaming for all".
You know Push Square, you could put some balanced articles about this situation and report everything else that has been said and occurred.
@Fiendish-Beaver "It is an email between two friends, where no caution was shown in their choice of words, as we all do in unguarded moments."
Bingo. What defines a person's true character is what they do when no one is looking. You take off your mask, we see your face. You drink a couple beers, you're more likely to tell the truth.
@Art_Vandelay who sends 'unguarded' emails at work nowadays anyway? Least of all a higher up figure. They don't send traceable email trails of thought just for bants.
@Tharsman "If that email is the only email that voices that opinion, I think its safe to say no one else agreed with the stance."
This email is not an exhibit, it's a slip up. Plain and simple. This is not the kind of remark you make in writing, regardless of it being discussed behind closed doors or even simply being implied. Which it totally is by Microsoft's past and present actions and behavior, not only but very much with Xbox.
If you don't think that pretty much everyone at Microsoft agrees with that statement, you have absolutely no grasp at corporate reality.
@Balosi Good point. It's a careless and serious mistake that could help changing the tides on this thing. Not necessarily in court, but public perception matters. It's a bit of a PR nightmare, at the very least.
Sony's Jim Ryan: 'I believe Microsoft will use Call of Duty to damage us'
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/92115/sonys-jim-ryan-believe-microsoft-will-use-call-of-duty-to-damage-us/index.html
The problem is they're trying to "compete" through monopolistic behavior, as Nintendo did in the 80s. Instead of just making must play exclusives. Hopefully they get reigned in as well. They're all *****, we just need the authorities to be a decent referee.
@XenonKnight That article definitely adds context.
Last week the internet was slamming Ryan because at one point he had said the deal was not about exclusivity in an email and that everything would be fine.
Something obviously changed his mind.
@Shepherd_Tallon I don't know why anyone still thinks Phil Spencer is a good guy!? Phil Spencer, Matt Booty and Don Mattrick are all the same kind of scumbags from the same swamp. I hope this bs gets blocked.
@OrtadragoonX absolutely it is, same if Sony or Nintendo said it too. I personally don't want more mergers (if they happen just smaller companies) and rather just have either games being timed exclusive Sony deals or Xbox GamePass games.
It's honestly been not horrible the last few years (besides major releases of Final Fantasy lockout on Xbox). Microsoft just hasn't internally brought the games over the last 5 now really a full decade. What would make MORE sense would be to say buy Asobo Studios due to their fantastic work on Flight Simulator and the Plague Tale games. That would be similar to what Sony has done with with a few studios.
@XenonKnight No one in Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony are the "good guys", it's dirty business to make 'infinite profits'. People pretend to love an ecosystem that they are addicted to like a sports team. It's nature of most humans to be tribalistic if they don't think criticality about their actions/nature of their actions.
@Fiendish-Beaver pretty much exactly this from the average gamer. Most people won't change unless at the start of a generation. As well the longer this gones on and the increase of games prices the harder it will get for Microsoft to get current gamers to switch. What they need to do is concentrate on getting newer gamers into GamePass or Series S at the cheap that haven't played consoles games before besides maybe on their phone.
@kuu_nousee Microsoft is the dirtiest of all three, microsoft has violation of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
@XenonKnight based on Personal Computers absolutely, but that's not we are talking about here: gaming ecosystems/company ownership. Though it is something to keep in mind when it comes to employees of Microsoft (outside of Xbox bubble) during the ATB buyout trial.
@kuu_nousee It goes to behavior and conduct of the whole of microsoft. Microsoft is a pit of scumbags liars and snakes.
Oil countries buying up world wide sports must be laughing at this playing out. Microsoft getting shown for what they are. Here's hoping they fail with this. Just go and make some games for everyone and good competition
@Morzy I don't watch sports so they can buy it, but I hate that I have to own a xbox.
Sony's Jim Ryan: Kotick asked to negotiate Call of Duty to 'cover himself' if merger fails
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/92117/sonys-jim-ryan-kotick-asked-to-negotiate-call-of-duty-cover-himself-if-merger-fails/index.html
@PoeticJustice brilliantly said. Echo my thoughts exactly! Kudos to you…
@mrtennis1990 buying Sony would make them a monopoly not publisher's
Whilst I understand your sentiments, @NEStalgia. During the PS1 and PS2 eras, I bought my son a PlayStation, as that was what I was gaming on at the time. Then, during the start of Xbox, I bought a OG, and then a 360 too. I then bought both my sons, and my step-son, a 360, and they moved over to the Xbox brand. I continued to game on both Xbox and PlayStation. Move forward 10 or so years, and both my sons and my step-son game exclusively on the Xbox, whilst I game on both the PlayStation and the Xbox.
Upshot is, I think that children of today, will likely continue with whatever brand they have grown up with, as that will possibly be where their friends are, but also where they will have built up a game library. I just think that other than having both consoles, most will stick where they started...
How can it be an outdated email and didn't happen??
They bought Zenimax....
They had a look at Sega but they probably thought it wouldn't move the needle...
Bungie, well they had already been in bed with them and just let them go, because bungie wanted to make more than just Halo....
O and now they buy Activision, one of thee biggest publishers there is..
Hmmm seems to me they are doing that strategy.
So if this goes through it means any publisher can now be bought.
Thus that email is exactly what they are doing.
@cragis0001 dont need to,I know who they are and know their history, I use to buy there games for the amiga ,in there massive boxes,good times,they made games for the sega saturn while owned by Sony ,they closed down in 2012 I think, and then most of the employees formed firesprite studios,which you probably know was bought by Sony in 2021,im confused by the point you was trying to make.
@Fiendish-Beaver Right, but that's largely my point. If MS were to successfully just ignore the "mature" market, leave that to Sony, make a play for the kids, saturate into that market, then in the long game, 20 years from now, PS is the Myspace of gaming and Xbox is what everyone young enough to be relevant was always familiar with and sticks with.
I don't think they're successfully doing that, but it's an argument that could be made if they seemed capable of actually successfully doing that. Which they don't.
With Minecraft + CoD + OW I suppose they'd have a lot of the things most popular with kids today excluding Fortnite. But with CoD on PS for at least 10 years, Minecraft forever multiplat, etc, it doesn't seem like they're attempting that.
If ms wins this case ,I can see Sony retaliating with extreme prejudice ,I wouldn't be suprised if they go after capcom or take two.
@Loamy If Xbox was shilling an "inferior product" i would have got the PS5 like I got the PS4, stop coping man.
It's amazing how playstation can straight up bait and switch with actual Bethesda mod support, a game pass like subscription service, have terrible customer service and sell a bad game like tlou three times for 70 and still have such fervent supporters.
I think you are absolutely correct, @NEStalgia. The long and short is that they would need to make CoD, Minecraft and Overwatch exclusive for that to work. Oh, buy Fortnite! God that would trigger some...😂
@Loamy Sure you weren't 😂 what criticisms did i fling at you? You on a playstation article saying Microsoft have inferior products which clearly shows you're talking about gaming consoles, what else does Microsoft make? Almost everyone uses a windows pc buddy.
@tallythwack my point is there both the same in the end as they'll do anything to get to the top.
@cragis0001 then why mention psygnosis ? Why was that relevant,theyre both successful companies, of course they will make deals to improve their business ,I just don't see the relevancy of psygnosis,and the point you was trying to make mentioning them.
@XenonKnight well you might be into something. A new article over at IGN is saying Nov 2021 they (Phil specifically listed) made a decision to switch all Bethesda games to exclusive moving forward. So they are backtracking on "case by case basis" now. What would stop them from doing this for COD or Diablo after the merger? A contract to specifically bring ATV to PlayStation would be the only thing that comes to mind. Sheesh what a damn rollercoaster.
@kuu_nousee (What would stop them from doing this for COD or Diablo after the merger? A contract to specifically bring ATV to PlayStation would be the only thing that comes to mind.)
Nothing they would just find a way out of the contract.
All future ZeniMax and Bethesda games may be Xbox exclusive
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/92142/all-future-zenimax-and-bethesda-games-may-be-xbox-exclusive/index.html
Internal Microsoft doc hints advertisements could come to Xbox games or Game Pass
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/92138/internal-microsoft-doc-hints-advertisements-could-come-to-xbox-games-or-game-pass/index.html
@Triumph741 are you referring to Insomnic who they bought? Wouldn't say they took them away from anyone, they were making games for PlayStation so they bought them. Don't recall off the top of my head anyone else but enlighten me if you know of any Developers they took from Microsoft?
@tallythwack Psygnosis was mentioned as its was a publisher which again everyone claims Sony has never purchased. Secondly it shows that both Microsoft & Sony are exactly the same as Sony had deeper pockets than its rivals & wasn't afraid to use it by buying up talent, 3rd party exclusive etc back in the early PS years.
@cragis0001 youre trying to justify the Activision buyout with a company that was formed in the 80s 😂 they where predominantly a dev and published 3 games for the amiga in the late 80s ,Sony bought them in 93,and even under sonys umbrella they continued to develop for other platforms,can you even name a game that was taken away from other platforms after Sony bought them?
@tallythwack I don't use Psygnosis to justify the Activision Blizzard deal. I bring it up as people are happy to ignore it with statements like "Sony have never purchased a publisher" or make up excuses like yourself comparing how much both are worth to riducule it's importance. Yes the size of the industry was smaller but buying a publisher that would go on to have 40% of all sales in the EU for two years puts it in the same league of importance as Activision Blizzard is now. both acquisitions have the power to transform the landscape & make there owner a serious threat to the competition. As for what games that were taken away from the competition. I owned a Sega Saturn & enjoyed playing Wipeout, Destruction Derby, Lemmings, Discworld to name a few which sequels were made PlayStation exclusive after purchase. Others like Adidas Power Soccer were in development before cancellation.
@cragis0001 the sequel to wipeout was 2097 which was also released on the saturn, 2048 was released only on playstation in 2012 ,did you expect them to release that on the saturn, over a decade after its death?
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