If you've been near anything remotely capable of an internet connection today, you've no doubt seen Apple's ludicrous-looking foray into the world of expensive, wearable tech. It's called the Vision Pro, and at least according to Tom's Guide, it's pretty awesome. And incredibly pricey, too, retailing for $3499 USD and releasing "early next year".
Compared to that, PSVR2 at $549.99 doesn't sound half bad, does it? You could have six of Sony's hats for that price, with more than enough change left over for something like Horizon Call of the Mountain.
In another fun aside, it has been noticed that the UI for the device has more than a little in common with a certain now-defunct Sony handheld device. Gone, but not forgotten.
In typically grandiose fashion, Apple isn't marketing this thing as a dedicated VR or AR headset but rather referring to it as a "standalone spatial computer". It will have over 100 Apple Arcade games at launch but isn't really positioned as a gaming device, and more as the future of communication or whatever.
While Apple could potentially doom us all in a rogue AI, SKYNET-esque apocalyptic scenario someday, they undeniably deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to game-changing tech. Perhaps you've heard of the iPhone; if not, Google it on your iPhone.
What do you think of Apple's Vision Pro? Is this thing a PSVR2 competitor or simply the measure of one's disposable income? Remotely log into the comments section below.
[source apple.com]
Comments 129
Ridiculous price
Ridiculous device
It’s not even VR gaming ready. Not only no games shown or announced, but no controllers at all. This is a “replace your other screens”, multi screen, and AR device, not gaming (probably a good shout given the low power).
@TrickyDicky99 can't argue that.
Hmmmm…. Simon Stalenhag and The Electric state, anyone?
Apple have built more of a generic computing device than a dedicated entertainment one.
Our only comparison is gaming and it's Apple Arcade Vs the PS5 software Library which isn't really much of a competition.
You can also buy a PS5, VR2 and every game worth owning and still have enough change for a MacBook for the price of the Vision Pro.
@RadioHedgeFund the same could be said about iPhone vs blackberry(remember them?!) but look where we are now.
Mobile gaming is MASSIVE. MS want King because of mobile gaming ( please correct me on that if I’m wrong👍🏻)
This IS expensive but I think it’s going to change things up again just like iPhone did to smartphone market
It's very obvious at the price this thing isn't aimed at consumers or entertainment, it's a commercial device geared toward medical, government/military, engineers etc. As an AutoCAD accessory I'm sure it's worth it's weight in gold. As a $3500 gaming toy it's the best epeen measuring stick ever built
@TrickyDicky99 I didn't get to reply earlier but yeah, agree on that part there fully! Otoh Apple just did more PR for Sony VR then Sony could ever do 😂
2 hour battery life ?
I don't really understand this device or it's feasibility in everyday use. Personally I believe it's gonna go route of Apple Watch, aka. first couple of generations will be rubbish sold to filthy rich financing development of actually usable devices down the road.
And I'm OK with that. It's a teaser of a direction electronics I might want to have could take in 3-4 years 😉
Google Lens. Was it Lens? See? Speak volumes.
Who is this product for ?
This is AR/VR not just VR.
Expensive? Yes. But this is a massive step up from anything available at the moment.
3rd gen will be the kicker.
Knowing Apple and if they will stick to it, it will take like 5 generations for them to perfect this thing.
Remember, you would be entitled to upgrade to a new one every year, you wouldn't want to be the uncool kid in the yard, would ya?!
This is competing with the HoloLens which initially advertised the same sort of features for s similar price, and sells well enough for the HoloLens2 to have been developed.
It’s for companies to use in business. It’s no coincidence that the rest of the presentation was to show the $6,000 apple pc aimed at the very limited number of movies studios.
Also.. note it’s called the Vision Pro.
The Quest Pro, Nico Pro and Vive Pro all launched after their commercial versions, but it looks like apple are showing the pro first, ready at launch for unity developers to build or adapt their games, so that presumably when the Vision launches for the same price as an iPhone Pro later on it will look like a much more affordable device and already have a good buzz about the tech.
Recently I tried Apple TV for a month. I became aware Apple doesn’t really care about creating much content for its ventures. Undoubtedly this headset is a device that could do miracles… if anyone could be bothered to make something to use it for.
@TrickyDicky99 I had the impression that PS showed their device at this years CES.
@thefourfoldroot1 You compare them like somebody comparing iPhone and Nintendo DS in 2007: „The iPhone even has no buttons. How shall this be a gaming device?“
If it's not overexpensive it's not apple
I will wait for an even more expensive iteration of the device
If it was cheap then no one would want it (who has enough money to flush down the toilet).
PSVR2 for the win!!
Anyway, I would be really curious to try it. I have my doubts about the usefulness. In particular at this price. I can see it being used to show architecture before it is being built, it might be useful to look at 3D data (like the air flow simulation they showed). But I have a hard time to believe that somebody wants to go through emails or look at giant excel sheets in a headset. On the other hand I spend quite a bit of time in dreams manipulating 3D objects etc. So maybe a headset with 16 times !! the number of pixels of psvr1 is actual useful when working with 3D objects, or even to work with large excel, music sheets or enormous UML diagrams . Anyway I am very curious.
It may also help to make stupid looking headsets with cables cool, and maybe the VR haters will reconsider their attitude. But presumably people will still bash psvr2 because sony cheaped out and did not gift every ps5 owner a 4000EUR headset, but just offers an overpriced piece of outdated tech (although it is not).
My car cost less than this. For that reason I don't think I am the target audience for this.
Agreed this is not a consumer device. At that price maybe even one for the fanboys/girls (if such a thing still exists) to skip. There may be industrial/military/media applications and Apple may want to get the imaging technology out there to collect field data and refine. Thats me trying to be kind. On a personal level i think it looks ridiculous and being tethered or strapping a battery pack to you like a 1950s sci-fi film is lame. The video doesnt suggest any use outside of browsing the internet and watching movies. Maybe i'll get to try it and it will rock my world but it looks DOA to me.
When the Vision Pro UI appeared I immediately thought "the Vita isn't dead, long live the Vita".
I can see this product only helping PSVR2 as people will say "We can't spend 4K (after taxes), lets settle for the Sony experience instead". (Possibly )
This product is a threat to Quest Pro if anything which probably explains the recent Meta showcase which was much more focused on games than the last one.
One is literally just a peripheral for a 'Console' and completely useless without also purchasing the Console. Its pretty much designed purely for gaming and pretty much just a 'screen'. Nothing runs 'locally' on it.
The other is a Complete Apple Mac Laptop built into the headset to be completely self contained and much more varied in what its designed to offer. This is your Apple Mac, iPhone, iPod etc and able to run software locally - not just 'games', not 'just' a leisure device. Its a Standalone Apple Mac in a unique form factor - built into a 'headset'.
Therefore the price is perhaps more understandable. PSVR2 is very expensive for a peripheral to a Console but Apples Vision Pro isn't that 'unreasonable' considering its an Apple Computer in a new Form Factor - still 'expensive' as ALL Apple products are, but not bad as a new way to Macbook...
The show apple put on made me think Jim Ryan's PlayStation are trying to copy apple's mysterious, low communication vibe.
The reason why it works for Apple is because they annually put out a great show where they show off what they've been doing. Expensive or not, they've been innovating like crazy these last few years.
@BAMozzy with a 2 hour battery...
@gaston they did show it at CES
@TrickyDicky99 To me is seems pretty clear from their actions that Sony isn't ALL IN on VR yet, they just want to be in the game in case it takes off later, then they already have a slight head start in terms of mindshare and R&D.
To be honest I think that is a pretty sensible position to be in right now. Like Cloud it's just not ready for mass consumption quite yet.
@BAMozzy tbh thats a great way to think about it. If this is really intended to be a 'laptop you strap to your face', and it has the performance and features/functionality of a laptop but with the size and 'convenience' of just strapping it over your eyes then the price tag is high, but only Apple high. (assuming the power of a £1500 laptop is replicated).
At present if think the closest competitor is the £299 Quest 2, which isn't there with email/browser support unless you use virtual desktop and that itself has to be on a laptop/PC etc etc - so it quickly moves away from being a one stop device if you have to extend to real laptop functionality.
In summary, imho, if Apple really has put the functionality and performance of a £1500 laptop in a standalone headset then I can understand the price tag.
I think I'll wait for the Apple Vision Pro Plus that will also release caffeine into your body so that you can stay awake while looking at spreadsheets on your headset.
@KaijuKaiser and no games were even shown. Imagine Sony doing that.
I loved the part where they said you could use this contraption to record video: "Relive a memory as if you're right back in the exact moment."
Yes, relive that memory whilst all your family/friends ask why you have a pair of oversized diving goggles covering most of your face, and laugh at your ridiculous appearance.
@lindos Considering the specs are not really known at this point, its difficult to compare to their laptops and iPads. It has the M2 chip in it - the same as is found in the iPad Pro's and best Macbooks which can cost over 1500 - depending on Screen size and Storage configurations. Point is, its an Apple 'Computer' in a Headset form factor.
It also has an additional chip - an R1 chip - to handle all the Mixed Reality processing. Its literally an Apple Macbook/iPad Pro you can strap to your face and use.
You can watch the entire presentation here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx5Ud9WkvGQ
@Vacuumator Google glasses. Google lens is the app for identifying things, reverse image search, translation etc. This is the new Google glasses for sure
Awesome tech, but may take another 3 years before this is mass market affordable.
@BAMozzy Provided it is used as a computer replacement. But wasn't one use case that a laptop is opened and it immediately functions more or less just as a set of screens?
Yes, of course You can presumably do all Your computing on such a device, you also can do that on an ipad or eventually even iphone. But in reality people often have a macbook, an ipad and an iphone and use all devices in parallel. In that sense it is likely like psvr2 only an addon and not a replacement.
Anyway this apple device is exciting because it excels in many areas whereat psvr2 (ignoring the different focus) only does with caveats (hdr but mura, 2kx2k per eye but pentille, and the outstanding items which are absolutely unique at the psvr2 price point, the eye tracking and haptics are ignored.). Interesting to see what FOV the apple device will have.
@thefourfoldroot1 @thefourfoldroot1 they show the dualsense controller in the official trailer.
just like the oculus at the time used the xbox one controller.
they probably have a deal with sony getting the streaming service that will work with the Q handheld.
Welp, it looks cool but for now this is simply not a consumer device.
@The_ghostmen
They even specifically mention DualSense and DS Edge support on the web page. No other controllers are mentioned.
As some have noted, this is more of a computing device.
Although definitively expensive, my first impression is similar to my first take on HoloLens: there is a strong cast to be made for having a gigantic virtual display while working on a small cubicle instead of trying to fit a ton of monitors.
In theory, a device like this could make a closet in a small New York City apartment feel like a very roomy office, and that might be the target market for this. Hi pay professionals living in dense cities with limited room for a proper office space.
Edit:
Given how Apple sells a 6k 32 inch monitor for $5k, I’m sure this device will end up finding an audience.
@naruball I mean… No one watches an Apple event for games. I’m still surprised that Death Stranding is coming to Mac.
Sony should sue Apple over using the Vita's interface.
Then again, New Sony probably don't know what a Vita is or even that it was a Sony product.
It's Apple. No matter how overpriced and underperforming their product is they have their blind cult followers who will buy regardless.
@AverageGamer it doesn't matter. It's still posted here (a site about video games last time I checked), but people seem to have very little issue with it, because it isn't Sony.
@Pat_trick I think their cult likes to buy products they can show off. Not sure if the rest of their products have done so well (e.g. desktops).
@gaston Just because it can recognise what is on you Macbook and can then transfer it to the Headset is not the same as necessitating the Hardware as its 'required' to run the software. Its more like it recognises the content on Macbook and switches from 'Augmented Reality' to 'Virtual Reality' as it opens it up on the Headset. The difference is that this is running the software on the 'Headset'.
Its not 'just' acting as a 'display' - its also running the software independently from the Macbook. In other words, you could turn off the Macbook and still continue to work, play etc. You turn off the PS5, PSVR2 is useless. Its more like linking several Computers together and being able to seamlessly switch between them. Of course, if you only have the 'Vision Pro', its still a 'Computer' in its own right, still able to work 'independently'.
If you don't own ANY Apple Products, its still a Standalone device that doesn't need to be hooked up or connected to any other devices to actually function as intended. Its not just a VR/AR display but a Computer built into a headset.
Yes you can do all of that on a flat screen iPad or Macbook, but that's not the point. Those devices don't handle 3D or VR/AR at all - not without additional purchases (HTC Vive for example) but this is 'built' in. I am willing to bet that most people don't own an Apple 'computer', preferring 'Windows' PC's - at most they may have iPhones and/or Apple Watches.
This is much more akin to strapping an iPad Pro to your face with all the apps and capabilities that offers (M2 Chip), but adds '3D' and Spatial 'computing' (the R1 chip) to deliver VR and AR functionality too.
Its still expensive, but then a Macbook or iPad Pro can't deliver 4k visuals on what seems like a Massive home theatre screen, can't deliver 3D on its 2D display etc...
You can buy 'just' the Vision Pro and get all the Features, Functionality etc from this single Apple Product. If you just buy PSVR2, its completely useless without a PS5. If Sony built a PS5 into their PSVR2 headset so it can operate independently as a complete 'PS5' without needing to purchase a PS5, that would be a more realistic comparison. But considering this is a fully contained Apple Mac Computer in a bespoke and small form factor, its not 'unreasonably' priced.
Nah I'm good I'd rather spend it on 2 months rent
I'd rather purchase PS3 Move set and playing PS3 Move games instead.
Simple and cheap.
The idea is good but the price isn't.
Notice how the Vita lives on through their layout of apps
@NEStalgia I dunno. I think there is zero question that HoloLens was used exactly the way you just described, but I def think Apple is expecting some typical consumers to pick one of these up. They apparently have forecast only 900,000 in the first year, so they seem to at least know these aren't going to just fly off the shelves. I think at this price point, though... 900,000 is still kind of a lot.
The Apple-Stans will be all over this. Ridiculous price but I've no doubt people will buy it. Apple sells.
Did anyone see the mode where people in front of you can see your eyes through the headset? That looked weird and a bit scary!
Yeah the Vision Pro price is nuts.
With that said, note the name and how they are releasing it.
This isn’t meant for the mainstream audience. It’s meant for developers and early enthusiasts who have more money than sense.
Apple will most likely democratize (aka release something at a reasonable price) the Vision later on the down the road. But for the first few years the new Vision platform will be expensive as hell.
@blockfight
I’m an Apple fan but I have zero interest in this.
Instead I’m interested in how they will democratize the platform in the future. So I’ll be keeping an eye on it.
But I’ve got 0 interest in AR or VR despite finding the tech fascinating.
4 grand for this and it's not even real VR? What are they smoking 😢😢
@naruball True. It's more about showing other people they have it than actually having it.
@huyi
It’s a HoloLens competitor. It’s aimed at business, developers, and wealthy individuals.
It isn’t meant for the masses to consume. If Apple follows their usual pattern they will democratize it in the future when they can sell it for around 1500.
@OrtadragoonX I could see it going down in price over the years. Maybe not 1500, I am thinking 2k for a version in a year or two that uses the same chip, somewhat lower resolution, and very likely the eye feature (if it’s a real thing, it’s likely a pointless out-facing lcd) being removed.
I do feel there is a lot of potential for a device that replaces large bulky monitors and speaker setups. Huge bonus point when the device itself also happens to be an entirely stand alone Mac Book Air.
"We can sell up to 80% of the user's visual field without inducing seizures"
They should have called it the Apple 3500.
This is not for gaming guys and therefore not comparable with a gaming VR Headset.
I don't buy Apple products. I appreciate them giving me another reason not to.
Ridiculous, no dice.
Can somebody please tell Apple about the inflation around the world? And I thought PSVR2 was an expensive proposition.
@arsmolinarc inflation hasn't stopped expensive Apple products from selling extremely well, so I doubt they feel like changing anything.
PSVR2 is not expensive in comparison to any other VR headset either. The inflation-adjusted price of the PSVR1 launch bundle with VR Worlds and Move controllers is $630 US. VR2 with Horizon is $600.
Knowing Apple, I was expecting their AR device to look like normal glasses and that they wouldn't release an AR product until that level of refinement was achieved and nothing less. Boy was I wrong! We didn't even get slightly chunky glasses you'd be moderately embarrassed walking with outside, we got real divers goggles so where's the snorkel?
Apple being ridiculous as usual, but everything they make sells. Their entrance in the AR/VR market is a good thing as they will attract developer support and consumer interest, both of which are things the market would benefit greatly from.
Also, buying a PS5 and a PS VR2 looks like a bargain compared to Apple's headset, which might get people to stop whining about the (reasonable) price.
@SplooshDmg Hololens and Quest Pro at $1500, both marketed toward the commercial sector, not the entertainment market. At $3500 if they're marketing this toward the entertainment market in a downward spiraling economy where TVs stopped selling and even clothing is not selling.....they're definitely hitting the wacky tobacky.
I mean, yeah, like I said in another thread, there will be those among the Porche and Rolex crowd who will certainly buy anything, what's another $5k for the latest toy? But it's just bizzrre watching Apple go all in on being the Louis Vuitton of tech, just exotic tech toys as a display of wealth for the high rollers. Weeerd timing to go all in on that after the $99 iPhone made Apple really a commodity. I suppose there's easily a million people in the Porche and Rolex crowd that will buy one, their targets aren't totally out of line with the market. The question is who makes money making entertainment media software for that niche of a niche of a niche? PSVR2 had a hard enough time at $550 with a much bigger potential market and it's not even close to being attractive for development.
There's also the problem that while it's less "bulky" than PSVR2 the thing still looks like hideous construction goggles lol. Will that go with Rolexes at the cocktail parties?
@MrGawain I think you’re missing the point… Apple TV+ was never meant to compete with other Streaming services in a traditional way… it about half to a third the price of other streaming services for only original content and most of it is of rather good quality…
I might be wrong but as of now it’s the only streaming service with an original that won best pictures at the academy awards…
@themightyant "Sony isn't ALL IN on VR yet, they just want to be in the game in case it takes off later, then they already have a slight head start in terms of mindshare and R&D."
That's a slightly expanded word for word of exactly what Jim said in 2020.
@NEStalgia "Will we do VR again? Maybe next year, maybe not. I'd like to announce the PSVR2." - Jimbo The Scotchman Ryan
Holy heck apple vr is expensive, oh well maybe in 5-7 years there will be cheaper SE version of it, at the cheaper price of just $999 😂
To be fair though if apple can make this below $1000 a couple of years later, I think it has better future than psvr 2 because this vr has so much daily use than psvr, connecting to apple ecosystem is a huge plus for most (ios users) people.
@Alpine021 Its not their eyes - its a screen on the outside too and uses a '3D' scan of your face. That scan creates a 'virtual' version of you and because of all the sensors monitoring your face inside, its then mapping your movement to the Virtual version.
Face Time too isn't using your 'real' face, its using the 3D virtual 'you'. That's why you don't see the Device strapped to peoples faces. The unit is opaque, you can't see through it and others can't look through from the outside either. It has 2 cameras, one for each eye on the outside too so that it can display the 'outside' world inside the headset. Cameras tracking your eyes inside are using that data to 'animate' the eyes on the outside...
Its part of the set-up process - scan your face to create your digital 'avatar' version of you.
@Cikajovazmaj Yup, great example. I'm not interested in apple watch at first, but at 7th gen I finally bought it and now can't go back to normal watch again. And I finally switch from android phone to iphone at 12th gen (iphone xr).
I think this device will be way more useful at 5th to 7th gen, probably with more glasses like appearance rather than sky mask like this one, and better battery to boot.
Anyone remember the Newton? That was going to transform computing too.
@NinjaNicky Agreed. This feels like one of those quota fillers for the site. The PSVR2 and Apple Vision Pro are apples and oranges; the article even essentially says as much. This feels like a weird and very defensive stretch to defend the PSVR2 price.
@NEStalgia there are a lot of non top mind commercial application that would benefit from this. Think any commercial offer aimed at consumers. The jump in Unity share prices, and the fact Unity is the de facto for those 3D commercial application really shows where the industry think this is going. Think being able to see your kitchen installed in your house before choosing, think seeing your new shoes on your feet before ordering them online, think visting an apartment without having to go there, think car dealer being able to let you test the various car/interior configuration in the showroom,... lots of businesses will benefit from this beyond architect, and "tech developpers"
Why do I need a computer to give me a facial? Confusing USP.
@Max_the_German
“ You compare them like somebody comparing iPhone and Nintendo DS in 2007: „The iPhone even has no buttons. How shall this be a gaming device?“”
No analogue sticks means no ports of most games, means not a gaming device. And neither has it been advertised as such. Sure, they could invent a “phone type” new control method using hand tracking, but it will be terrible with no direct feedback. And, again, far fewer if any games ported due to the added work. We saw with that with PSVR1, and for a time that was the biggest selling VR device anywhere. This will not sell anything like those type of volumes.
iPhone can get away with it by simplifying games for a non gaming consumer and giving them away “free” (with Microtransactions), this won’t have that type of user base size.
@Kalime78 I don't deny there's a lot of business use for such a thing. That's a very different space than the consumer market and business equipment is priced quite differently as it generates money. Though the "new shoes" thing doesn't work because you'd have to be willing to spend $3500 on a gadget to avoid ordering the wrong shoes instead of just returning the shoes you don't like for free, or $15 or so But yeah, for construction/architecture/engineering/medical, and the sales examples like car showrooms etc, sure, I can see those sort of business applications, which is who I think this is clearly geared toward. Spending $3500 as part of a car sales merchandising or remodeling services is different than spending $3500 to play Beat Saber.
@Wormwood23 Still waiting for my Pippin exclusives.
@PSme considering King is base on the UK and Microsoft apparently threatening to throw it toys out of pram and pull out of the UK because the CMA had the guile to say no them. It seems king isn't that important to there plans anymore.
Unless they can draw the attention of the hardcore Apple fanbase, this thing is absolutely DOA. I'm still trying to figure out who it's even meant to appeal to. This seems like Apple's Meta moment.
@knowles2 interesting. I didn’t know this, thanks for the update.
@NEStalgia "It's very obvious at the price this thing isn't aimed at consumers or entertainment, it's a commercial device geared toward medical, government/military, engineers etc. As an AutoCAD accessory I'm sure it's worth it's weight in gold. As a $3500 gaming toy it's the best epeen measuring stick ever built"
You would think so At that price point, it doesn't really seem geared towards general consumers. However all of the features they highlighted seem to be consumer features. Why would a business care about watching movies in 3D? Or recording scenes in 3D (I could see some application here although limited)? etc.
Not quite sure what Apple is aiming for here. It seems like a device aimed at consumers, but not at a consumer-friendly price. At that price, seems like it could be aimed at businesses, but they didn't really highlight many, if any, features for business use.
Then again though, Apple is very good at getting their fans to blindly part with their money with whatever they put out, so I'm sure they'll see decent sales, even if it is only from super niche early adopters with money to burn.
It's not a PSVR2 competitor, plain and simple. Apple has NOTHING in the game category. They're a complete joke in that regard. It's an impressive device that's clearly ahead of its time since nobody will be able to afford it. It's basically what digital workflow will become 10 years down the line.
@gonzilla I agree, the marketing seems remarkably off-point for Apple. I guess this is what post-Steve-Jobs era Apple does when being disruptive (because they haven't really done the disruptive thing since he was there.)
IT seems like a business tool, priced like a business tool, with business focused features. Sure they want to rope in the tech enthusiasts with loads of cash to spare, but even the "high paid professional" that wants to use it as a virtual office is still the business tool market. But I do agree, that presentation focused a lot of mass market entertainment for a product that's not just overpriced for that market but so obscenely priced it's not even within the realm of discussion of that market. Definitely mixed messaging with it.
I'd say it's a device aimed at business/gov/edu and priced accordingly for institutional purchase and exotic luxury buyers.....but strangely marketed at a mass market that can't even afford groceries anymore. Definitely confusing marketing!
It's the rare case Meta understand their market better than Apple, where Meta marketed Quest Pro very much toward business and the metaverse and Quest 2/3 very much as an entertainment device.
I thought the rumors were wrong in Winter when it said $2000. Thought that was just nuts. Then I heard the recent rumor saying $3000 and thought it was hilarious. It's the rare case where the rumors aren't as extreme as reality lol
The only competitor to PSVR2 will be Quest 3. They'll be going head-to-head (so to speak) with wireless vs graphics and content vs content. This is a great, succinct article that sums up that future bout perfectly:
https://www.laptopmag.com/features/dont-buy-the-meta-quest-3-if-you-own-a-ps5-psvr-2-is-a-better-investment
@TheShrunkenHeadsman Apple makes more revenue from games than Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft combined. A lot more. I wouldn't say they're nothing in the category. The entirety of Playstation/Nintendo individually is a joke next to the mobile games revenue and player base playing on iOS.
I still don't think this is a good product for the price for consumers for entertainment or anywhere even remotely close enough to be able to pretend, but Apple matters probably more than PlaysTendo in terms of the games "industry".
The only up-swing about this is it legitimizes VR on the whole more, helping shift it from "DOA nerd toys" to "aspirational things rich people buy."
@TheShrunkenHeadsman "It's basically what digital workflow will become 10 years down the line."
Perhaps, however I don't think this will really take off in any meaningful way until people don't need to strap a chunk to their face/head.
Put this in contact lenses or something non-intrusive, now we're talking. Not likely in 10 years, though 😅
@NEStalgia Yes, true... but every single one of those games are very specific to iPhones and iPads. In fact, most people wouldn't even consider playing those games if not for five minutes at a time on their iPhone. So, do they have a market... yes. But an ENTIRELY different market. We're talking apples and bananas different. iOS is in its own sterile, weird, expensive, post-Steve Jobs universe. As both a console and PC gamer since the beginning of time (and, sadly, an iPhone user... these things happen when you're married), I wouldn't touch an iOS game for any reason at any time. Not even on my radar.
@thefourfoldroot1 I think you didn’t get what I wanted to say: iPhone was not a dedicated gaming device, but a communication device. Same is true for Vision. So it makes no sense for me to judge it as a gaming device, because this comparison it will always lose.
@Max_the_German
Of course. Which is why In my first post I said
“ This is a “replace your other screens”, multi screen, and AR device, not gaming (probably a good shout given the low power).”
Can someone explain how this is different from NReal/XReal
@TheShrunkenHeadsman True, it's a completely different market, but unfortunately the "industry" doesn't seem to see it that way and is always looking at the total gaming "market" including mobile. Specifically bean counting executives and investors that know nothing about the actual market. I, too am not a fan of paying too much for too little with Apple. I have some old iPod Touches I use for alarm clocks and the like because at some point alarm clock makers (it's a Sony!!) stopped making their own devices and just started bolting iPhone docks onto stuff. It's infuriating because I just don't like Apple stuff, though I don't mind it so much now now that, this product aside, their iOS devices are actually "cheap". I thought Apple shed the whole luxury-designer tech image finally and then this thing popped up.
HoloLens 2.0 🤦♂️
But It has an Apple logo on the box. So some will still try to romanticize introducing Inefficient nonsense into their workflow
Also, using a VR/AR Headsets to do work or watch a 2hr movie gives new meaning to "eye strain"
You can get a
1. LGC2 55 inch OLED,
2. PS5 FF16 Bundle
3. PSVR2 Call of the mountain Bundle
4. 13 Macbook Air.
For $3,260 right now at BestBuy. You will be more entertained and productive than buying this thing for $3,499.
@NEStalgia You're failing to see the big picture here. Yesterday's presentation made it clear that this product is geared towards both professionals and consumers. But not this product per se, but this product line.
XR is ground breaking technology that will still take years to mature. Apple's first foray into this market is clearly an early adopter stepping stone that has the primary objective of planting the seeds of a healthy ecosystem. If the tech is solid, it will attract both enthusiasts and developers which is a fundamental first step for future mainstream adoption.
The same sources that had been reporting on the Vision Pro have leaked Apple's roadmap, which point to both a cheaper version in one or two years and a "true AR/MR" iteration further down the line.
Look, I hate Apple but its influence in the tech industry is undeniable. So, I actually think that Vision Pro will be good for VR in general because it does shift people's perspective. You know, a rising tide lifts all boats.
@Agramonte I don't see a problem with long durations, I mean I use my PSVR2 for 4-5 hours sometimes without a hint of eyestrain, it's not really different than looking at real life....less blinding light than being outdoors, and focus should be the same.
BUT eyestrain aside, imaging having the big rubber band strapped around your head and the goggles on your face for an entire 9-5+ office day every day. I love hours in my PSVR daily when I can, but there's limits to how much head pressure while stressed one can take. Sure people that wear safety gear for work have to have goggles on their face all day but they're doing active work with breaks, not sitting in the same seat taking calls and typing all day.
@Art_Vandelay Yeah, I did touch on the shift in consumer perception earlier, so it's a net positive overall for sure, I agree. The product or even product line itself though.....wow. And not a good wow.
Edit: Actually forget business, consumer, and enthusiasts. This thing in reality is marketed at none of them. It's marketed at the media and influencers to do the marketing and PR for them by making it trendy and talked about to set the stage for a real product later on. Gross. I hate the current world a little more very day.
@NEStalgia Oh yeah, I guess this is part of the ecosystem, right? And I'm with you there, the world has become a caricature of itself. These are the dark ages. VR to the rescue lol.
Now, getting back to the matter at hand, I think the main target audience for this first iteration is actually the developers. If Apple can convince this group alone and, again, if the tech is solid, it will eventually thrive.
And honestly, it does have its little tricks. The outward facing screen, the dial, the 3D camera; these are all unique features. And the specs are also pretty impressive, price notwithstanding.
But what I hate about Apple is how they present all the other 99% of features as the innovation of the century. You know, stuff that have been present in competitors offers for years. And… people f'in fall for it. It's disgusting.
@NeonPizza I had that "fighting through the pain" experience for like 1-3 days before I just started wearing it better. That, obviously will vary and it's possible your head shape just isn't as compatible with it, but basically I just had the band up either too high or too low and it was putting the wrong pressure in the wrong places. After those first days, I can go 5-7 hours no discomfort whatsoever. Not that I can just hide in VR for 7 hours on a regular basis. Much to my dismay.
But you definitely have either a head shape incompatibility going on, or...just user error? Or something. I've been using it daily for months now. Every time, just pop it on, no fuss, I don't even bother checking IPD except once a week or so if one eye, usually right, just feels "weird" in which case it means I've bumped IPD out of spec. It's crystal clear, comfortable, under 20 seconds putting it on, it's just a hat. Sorry to hear you're struggling with sweet spots so much. If I notice nose pressure I just adjust the strap down lower, I have it too high. IF it's not tack sharp I just shimmy the visor a bit and it's fine. No really hassles or challenges at this point. But it really is a shame you're struggling with it so mightily. It really is just incredibly good if you could find some way past that. More than "good" it's freaking convenient. I just leave it plugged in, open my case, pick it up, put it on, tighten it, resume my game from sleep, from "sit down" to "in VR" it's about 10-25 seconds total. no discomfort, only the kind of minor adjustments you'd give to a hat or sunglasses for comfort....just...no thought, beautiful clarity every time. IDK, I think just time and experience I just nailed the muscle memory to do it right or something. Recharging a Quest would take more time and effort lol The only caveat is somehow, and I still don't know how, I keep tangling the wire and every once in a while have to unplug it to straghten it out and uncoil all the twists.
HOPEFULLY it's just a learning exercise to figure out how to get it on easily and not just a head-shape incompatibility. Sweet spot, mura, etc just....don't exist to me most of the time (sure some dark scenes like in the star wars game you can't avoid mura) but....120+ hours into NMS I haven't seen mura, blur, SDE, anything once, in as long as I can remember. And no discomfort. (And I'm sensitive to that, we've talked about our headphone rigs and every one of those cause discomfort in varying ranges of time so that says something!) There are days where I might start with some discomfort I've noticed, if I'm very tired (like a pre-existing headache I didn't know about yet lol.)
But yeah, this apple kit really isn't much of a "VR" kit at all. Interesting tech. Priced into the absurd. Not a VR kit. Doesn't sound particularly powerful. It's little more than a Macbook Air inside. Personally I don't have an interest in AR, really, I don't want to see my cramped room instead of sprawling vistas...I'm too used to slamming my hand into things trying to reach for handles in my roomy cockpits.
All tolled I'm curious what your resulting comparisons will be of PSVR2 vs Quest 3 once you get it and settle a few months past the new toy honeymoon with it. Excluding what a PC can do with it, obviously. Eh, people connecting Q3 wirelessly to 4090 will have an "ok" experience....the wired connected is where it's really at
@Art_Vandelay I don't think I'll ever really understand the apple customer mindset really. They do some really nice things very well, but they prices they charge, sell the mundane as revolutionary. There was a brief time at the end of Steve Jobs' run where I was almost roped in...but that didn't last long. Only apple can sell a $1500 laptop for $2500 and have people thanking them for the innovative product because it has a magnetic plug.
@NeonPizza
Agreed. And same here, except I won’t be picking up a quest at all because most quest games will be played best on PSVR2 and I’ve already bought that.
@NEStalgia
I can play F1 in VR with not much issue. But using it in Windows mode to work I find painful,... especially if with White canvas like XD or Illustrator or need to read edits in Word. I scraped that part of VR on my PC early on.
Same goes for movies. Fades to white with in VR I simply close my eyes. I find it a much less enjoyable experience than simply watching the movie on a nice TV.
I cant play VR after a long day at work either, that is a guaranteed headache. I 100% can sit in front of a TV on the other side of the room and watch a movie with the wife before bed.
HoloLense 2 had a version with an integrated Hardhat by Trimble
https://fieldtech.trimble.com/en/products/mixed-reality/trimble-xr10-with-hololens-2
You cant take random stuff into a PPE zone. Trimble had to replace the HL2 glass for it to be Impact certification compliant and extra insulation on the electrical components for it to be allowed on a US/EU work site.
@thefourfoldroot1 there were games shown. But upon launch, you can only play Apple Arcade games.
@NeonPizza I completely agree with you on everything except the 110 degree FOV. I think that's a HUGE positive, and it's one of the things that made PSVR1 so good, too. I think FOV makes all the difference in realizing a virtual scenario. Our minds are wired just as much to the periphery as they are to the focused optics. When I go from using my PSVR2 to using my Quest 2, I immediately get annoyed with the framed "periscope effect" that you get with a narrower FOV. Hate it, hate it, hate it. And, personally, I haven't had hardly any "blurring" issues with my PSVR2. It's funny because it seems everyone has a different damned experience with the headset! Lol I may just be lucky as it fits my head perfectly and my settings haven't failed me since I calibrated them out of the box. I have my brightness set to just one notch above darkest. IPD is perfect. I just have zero complaints with that awesome headset. I REALLY wish so many of you could have the same experience.
And, yes, RE Village VR and the upcoming RE4 Remake VR make the entire purchase worth it. Capcom has done an amazing job. They don't get enough props because so many take them for granted. They've been hitting homeruns since the early days of arcades. Truly one of the greatest video game developers (true legends).
@klarkkent exactly! I won't be getting this 1st gen device but maybe 2nd or 3rd gen. I saw a 20-minute review of it from MKBHD, which made me actually interested, and he did a MUCH better job at sharing the features and specs than Apple did and they covered the device for longer than that.
@Agramonte Yeah, I'm way more adaptable to it than you it seems but even I just couldn't stare at it all day for text and productivity every day, let alone just the feel of the apparatus on my head all that time. It's more then fine when it's for entertainment to transport you somewhere else you'd never be. It's another thing to use it so stare at freaking spreadsheets for 8 hours by obligation. Considering it's impossible to get people to pay 500 to do it for escapism I'm not sure who wants to pay 3500 to do it for labor 😂
@thefourfoldroot1 @NeonPizza $3500 STARTING AT price...... And still no diopter adjustment while my virtual boy had it it in 1995! Oh, Apple....
@NEStalgia To be fair, the closed ecosystem does have its advantages, especially for the layman. But the price to be paid is borderline ridiculous. I used a Mac for the few years I attended the University, and it was fine. But I went straight back to PC as soon as I was done with my degree and never looked back.
@NeonPizza RE Village VR... absolutely! All those scenes you pointed out are incredible. I also love when Lady D's daughters first encounter and capture you, drag you across the floor through three corridors and then you find yourself up close and personal with D herself. Jaw-dropping moments in VR. Good stuff.
@NEStalgia
Have not read the whole comment thread so sorry if this come up yet but I went looking up earlier the price of the HoloLens, and MS seems to only sell the HoloLens 2, starting precisely at $3500.
They have some variants for various industrial applications that go as high as $5200. This looks ridiculous only from a gamers perspective.
@SillyBoyJudas
I mean VR games. Not pancake games on a flat screen using a controller (dualsense) not compatible with VR at all.
@Tharsman Sorry didn't mean hololens was 1500, quest pro was, bad punctuation on my last.
But that's kind of the point, the holo lens never pretended to even hint at being anything but commercial equipment with a price to match.. This thing is the same price but the whole presentation marketed towards moves, Disney and games lol. Nobody blinks at a $3500 business machine. But a personal entertainment device which is how the presentation confusingly pitched it, no...
Hard pass, even if this were given to me for free.
Hm, is it a coincidence tha Kojima just announced the other day, that Death Stranding games will be ported to Mac ...?
To be fair this looks way more advanced than psvr2.
We’ve got a long way to go with pricing though before these devices become mainstream if they do at all.
The Vita UI comment is interesting as you could say the vita borrowed from iOS in the first place? Also is the same as Apple Watch.
@NEStalgia maybe im misremembering, but some of the early showcases of the HoloLens back in the day were indeed game oriented. Hell, Minecraft was featured on that trailer, as was watching movies on fake screens.
The thing I’ll give HoloLens over the Vision Pro is that the HoloLens is open, it’s can still the end feel like an attachment to any headgear you are wearing, like the helmet and industrial variants. Being open means there is a lot more airflow into your face while working in hotter environments that will make you sweat like a pig.
The Vision Pro being enclosed makes me feel no one in their right mind would use one outside an environment with AC, comfortable temperatures and low physical activity, unless the thing has some fan/ventilation feature I missed.
So they both actually seem to have had rather similar reveals. When the Apple Watch launched Apple also revealed as some sort of general purpose computing device “for absolutely everyone”, it was only over time that it earned its place as primarily a health and fitness focused device. I expect similar to happen to Vision Pro, and see it focus into more specialized workflows.
I think I noticed some stuff about openness, I don’t think that’s much of a concern. Anyone willing to fork 3500 at any large scale is likely to have little concerns paying for Apples enterprise level app development license that basically lets them install anything on any device at any time, entirely bypassing the App Store.
Just read this lets you shout and share 3D movies. I can imagine one industry in particular who will be chomping at the bit to get hold of these now.
@Tharsman PSVR2 has fan aspiration so I'd be surprised if the Vision doesn't at $3500, but it still doesn't change that the icky parts sealing your face would still be uncomfortable outside the mentioned environments.
Hololens presentation was interesting, it was as you said, but then they were quick to clarify that it was simply not a consumer product and wouldn't even really be made available through consumer channels. I remember gamers were momentarily wowed and then had the door slammed as basically not ever coming to consumers. Apple's gone the other way pretty much declaring it as a consumer focused item, purchasable only in Bitcoins lol.
I don't think Apple Watch was actually intended as health and fitness oriented device, it was intended as for everyone, it's just that nobody was actually interested except a niche of health and fitness enthusiasts that happened to find uses for it. They kind of lucked out into saving face and not failing by a niche saving it.
That was what I was trying to say. Apple revealed it as a general computing device on your wrist, expected consumers to use it for music, phone calls, even texting and browsing the web on a limited form. Don’t think even Apple expected it to become a fancy Fitbit.
Similarly, they presenting this as a general computing platform/device but I expect it to become mostly used in specialized industries.
Btw, I think anyone can buy a HoloLens 2 these days. It was just the first model that was only available via special channels for a limited time.
@PSme When you look at the details of the deal you realise just how hard Microsoft is trying to lie, bluff and bully their way to get this deal pass regulators.
It's so advanced that you can even sit in your living room right next the the wall socket to keep it constantly plugged in so the 2hr battery life doesn't capitulate.
@BAMozzy I understand that it is a full fledged computer but like most other apple products people will use them in tandem. In that sense it is likely more an add-on then something which replaces any of the current devices (iphone, watch, ipad, macbook). For example it is possible to replace a macbook by an ipad. People tried that. But most people I know reverted back to a proper macbook.
@NeonPizza It's funny because I love that the earbuds are wired. Just pick up tbt headset, plop it on and the earbuds are always there within reach, not falling, I don't have to fumble for them and or drop them, it's just boom, right there, no fuss. I love that, wouldn't trade it if the wireless were free!
You use the little holders for them in the headset right? I mean if they just dangle they're it would be messy but they dock in the little holders and they're just always right there and won't fall! While blind in the headset!
Why would you stand to build puzzles? . I agree about standing with the wire, I almost never do for the same reasons... Several games get ignored due to that.... But puzzling places? Why? 😂
@NeonPizza puzzles: I never once thought "this game would be better if I were standing around sorting puzzle pieces instead of comfortably sitting" 😂
Earbuds: IDK, function before fashion for me. I already look like a doofus, why not go full tilt? 😆 Wireless seems like a problem in search of a solution where the shot wires and little holders fit the purpose exactly and wireless introduces problems the free solution doesn't have just to not have a 6" piece of wire that also prevents the thing from falling. "NASA punk" lol
Hmmm yeah that's definitely not how smooth turning on light brigade works. I definitely have totally free movement with the exception of using snap movement for "jumping" to high low places. Something is wrong in the settings, it's definitely free turning for sure!
I'm really looking forward to pixel ripped! That seems like a joy in vr. Also dyschronia part 3 is coming this month I think. Thankfully it's not a10 years wait like ff7 lol
@NeonPizza For me AR does nothing at all for me, I kind of gloss over all those features when I see them, so all that definitely does less for me than it does for you, but yeah, the Q3 still seems interesting. I'm not going to be a day 1 adopter but I'm definitely looking forward to your opinions on it (other than the wire and the headphones )
It's a shame what happened to PC VR, it seems like it's really the center of VR, but it's just not. I've see a lot of devs discuss the nightmare of it though and it's understandable. So many different hardware platforms with so many different feature sets, none of them compatible, and at the end of the day few customers and the few they have will never be happy anyway. It's got to be pretty awful supporting that. It's like supporting a half dozen Sega 32x's.
With the headphones, I just keep thinking, the wireless are necessarily bulkier than the tethered ones, can easily be knocked to the floor when putting it on or off or anywhere in between, (And then you have to fumble around finding them with the B&W camera, or just take the headset off and on again) and have to be charged rather than dropped in a case with the headset. It just seems less convenient in every way! Wired, boom, they're right there no more than a few inches from your ear at all times no matter what. Always attached. If it was regular earbuds on a long wire it would suck but these are custom made, just a few inches of wire at the headband for each ear, it just seems perfect! I'm practical. I'll take convenience over aesthetics any day
Suddenly....crickets.....darnint this is the second person to delete their account and make me look like I'm talking to myself
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