We’ve whipped out our magnifying glasses and read this unnecessarily small statement from Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio’s director Masayoshi Yokoyama several times now, and to be totally frank, we’re still none the wiser. The social media post attempts to explain the differences between Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth’s Western and Japanese names, but we’re not sure it does a particularly good job.
For those who don’t know, the RPG sequel’s name domestically will be Ryu Ga Gotoku 8, which is obviously consistent with previous entries in the franchise. However, its immediate predecessor’s name in North America and Europe was Yakuza: Like a Dragon, which was SEGA’s attempt to break free from numbers as it courted a new audience.
From what we can infer from the post above, the team didn’t want to reintroduce numbers in the Western release, as it would have ended up as Like a Dragon 2 or Like a Dragon 8, neither of which would have been particularly marketable. So, instead, it added the subtitle Infinite Wealth to differentiate it from the previous game.
The word salad then goes on to explain the concept of infinity and concludes that once players have finished the game you may “even be enticed to provide a subtitle of your own”. To be honest, it’s all head-spinning nonsense, and we think we need a lie down after writing this article. At least the game is looking absolutely superb, though, eh?
[source twitter.com]
Comments 33
Also, I guess you could say the infinite symbol is sort of like an 8 when you look at it the right way lol
They are doing the inverse Mario Kart. Mario Kart had non-numbered entries for the first 6 games (not counting MK64 since that one isn't actually the 64th MK lol) but then added numbers for the 7th and 8th entry. Yakuza/Like a Dragon does the opposite
Also Infinite Wealth sounds like a cheat code from the Sims or something
I definitely didn't understand too much from the RGG 2023 Summit yesterday. Yokoyama definitely could have said that Like a Dragon 2 or 8 did not appeal as a name for the western fans and just left it at that IMO.
Extremely confusing to me, especially since it was revealed with the other "Like a Dragon" game. I honestly can't remember which one is the Action RPG and which one is the turn-based sequel until I see the screenshots with the main character's face.
Getting rid of numbers imo is a smart move. It’s just a bit “sad” it’s not easy for them to go back and rename all previous entrees, at least not without yet another re-release. But hey, they can always re-release 1-6 on PS5 white label with the “Like a Dragon” title, and subtitles instead of numbers.
Sega should have just pulled a Square Enix when Final Fantasy VII came out and just release them with the proper numbering (despite confusion).
Then, later on down the road, re-release all the previous titles in the west with the correct title and numbering. Heck, I wonder if that could be patched into the versions already available on Xbox and PlayStation.
People can just look up the series history online to figure things out.
Person: "Wait, why is this Like a Dragon 8? Where is 1 - 7?"
Me: "Google it"
We didnt add a option for a physical copy. 😜
Honestly it just makes sense to have called it 8. It's the 8th entry of kiryus saga, plus the spinoff gaiden. All 8 are available in the west and on current consoles as remasters. Why skip the number? Imo it's more confusing this way because the story is a chronology. The "Yakuza: like a dragon" name just made sense. Even if this was ylad2 marking the new series without renaming the old series.
I get what they tried to do but I don't think it works well
Is this series similar to Yakuza?
@Triumph741 Yes and no. Yakuza in Japan is called "Like a Dragon". So Yakuza 0-6 is actually Like a Dragon 0-6. But for Like a Dragon 7, they instead named it Yakuza: Like a Dragon and made it a turn-based RPG. This game is the sequel to the turn-based RPG and is coming out next year
Meanwhile Judgment, Lost Judgment and Like a Dragon Ishin came out which continues the action RPG gameplay from Yakuza. Like a Dragon Gaiden: The Man Who Erased His Name is coming out in November with the Yakuza main character and original Yakuza brawler gameplay.
Are you taking notes? There will be a quiz later
Companies always seem unnecessarily worried about this, then act erratically. You have Square changing FFIV and FFVI to FFII and FFIII in America because they were the second and third to be released there, but then calling FFVII by its actual name even though it was the fourth - and the first in Europe.
Then the same company, having decided it's okay for FF to be numbered properly, removes numbers from Dragon Quest in the west with the rereleases on DS, and VIII - but then calls XI and XII by their numbered names. Even things like Diablo III's logo having the III be a subtle background element behind the word 'Diablo' to try and make it look like the first in the series to those not familiar with it.
@Matroska Right? Honestly I prefer the numbers. I can easily google if I need info on previous entries to play the new one. Just doing the "Title: Subtitle" formula can be extremely confusing if you end up having a lengthy series. For example, with Star Wars, as a casual viewer I missed the last two that came out and without looking them up I get extremely confused about the chronology; and I know my friends who aren't into nerdy hobbies feel the same way. It can arguably become more of a barrier to entry than the numbers.
Just do the numbers. If a series looks interesting to me, I might be inclined to look back at the previous ones and gives me a better idea of where to start.
It's one of those things that even if you know the series it's confusing, especially since the name of the new one sounds more like the spinoffs (Gaiden/Ishin) than the game it's an actual sequel to.
Japan:
LaD0, LaD, LaD2, LaD3, LaD.....8. Judgment 1, Judgement 2, LaD Ishin, LaD Gaiden.
West:
Yakuza 0, Yakuza, Yakuza 2 ,Yakuza 3, Yakuza....6, Judgment 1, Judgment 2, Yakuza: LaD, Lad Ishin, LaD Gaiden, LaD Infinite Wealth..........
"We didn't want it to be confusing."
The entire plotline of coming up with these names sounds like something that actually came from a side quest in the games lol
It doesn't really seem that confusing to me. I'm not sure there needed to be a whole article mocking their attempt to explain.
In Japan it's 8 because it's a long series and there's no divide in old and new fans there. There's no subtitle because they don't feel it needs one.
In the West there are a lot of fans who started with Like a Dragon, so to avoid a Final Fantasy 3/6 situation they're going with another subtitle instead of a number. Going without a subtitle or adding a 2 or 8 would cause confusion.
It's a very Japanese game made by Japanese people who are trying to communicate and include their western fans directly. There's both a language and cultural barrier they're going to cross. It's really not that complex and surely isn't worth trying to make fun of.
@NEStalgia The only thing I feel can be confusing is the "Yakuza" vs "Like a Dragon".
The numbering thing, IMO, is overrated, especially for long running series. Maybe its different in Japan, but in the west, its proven that at some point numbers just intimidate. Movies, books, and games all tend to drop numbers past the 3rd or 4th entry because eventually it just intimidates new players from jumping on board on a new entry "because they need to play 5-18 older games".
Hell even if Japan is more accepting of these numbers, some long running series like "Tales Of", "Atelier" and "The Legend of Heroes" have intentionally avoided them. They might have some sub-series sequels (like Trials of Cold Steal, and Atelier: Ryza) but only for a limited number of entries.
Assassins Creed is doing fantastically well with no numbers, with every entry outselling previous ones, precisely because no one feels they have to go play previous entries.
I'm not confused about it really. Looking forward to more turn based combat in infinite wealth!
Seems like Gaiden will also be an important pre story to infinite wealth and the action combat looks really cool! (Hoping this one has English dub now that Kiryu has an English VA).
I also want to know what an earth is going on between Ichiban and Saeko!
About as clear as mud. XD
@Tharsman So the TL;TR is in a few years we should expect to buy a Playstation One? Playstation: Infinite (which is finite for 7 years)
IDK I think it's a new thing that we hear that numbering chronologies is "intimidating", and I honestly don't think the real issue is it's "intimidating" so much as it became faddish to give things numbers in the early internet age because it seemed cool and futuristic, and now the numerical fad is over so it seems "not new and hip" if it has a number so marketers avoid it. Popularized by Apple where we have "iPad" - just one product for 100 years, where people then have to add their own chronology and unofficially add "iPad (10th gen)" and iPad (2018) to it so people know where it fits in the history. MS tried that with surface and...yeah that didn't last more than one gen. It's a marketing trend. Based on perception it's preferred, but the fact that people then add their own chronologies to it in discussion so it makes sense indicates it doesn't really work well.
Obviously it's different if something's part of a brand franchise but not part of a chronology that you don't need to (and probably shouldn't) number them, like Tales Of. But Kiryu's story covers from when he's 20 to when he's gray. Should you play 4 before 8? Kind of, yeah. Should you play Ichi's origin story before "Infinite Wealth"? Kind of, yeah. 2 tells you that. "Infinite wealth" doesn't, it sounds like a new standalone one-off story or spinoff. In gaming specifically it also happens due to building games as live service "platforms" that can run for 5 months or 15 years (GTA) and the "new" one just replaces the "old" one rather than adding to it in a chronology. But that doesn't apply to LaD.
Same with Assassin's Creed. They went with a number for when it was telling Desmond's chronological story. They dropped the number when each game stopped being part of a particular chronology. I'm sure they'd introduce a "2" if they made any of the recent entries into a subseries for that character's story though, like Mirage 2 if they do a second game starring Basim in the middle east to indicate a continuation of the previous.
LaD just has confusion that's super effective because they decided to move the West to follow the same name as Japan. In hindsight it may have made more sense just to keep calling it Yakuza here and kept the numbers identical to Japan rather than making the name identical for only part of the series and then having disjointed numbers. But I think they could have salvaged that by just sticking with the "Yakuza: Like a Dragon" brand here to unify it all. This could be 2 and everyone could tell this is a sequel to the other similarly named thing and it's all part of but different from those other 7 games in the store. The new title just sounds like it's not a sequel to another game, but another stand alone/spinoff title like Ishin. Gaiden only confuses it more, because technically that's 8 and this is 9 lol, which is really 10 because it starts with 0 lol.
Oh my God not a turn based game I'm gonna have to buy it and love it now.
The only thing I know for sure is that I will play that game in the future. But it's a long way down, as I'm just in my second game in the series, and I will play all in order.
@NEStalgia the practice of not using numbers is definitively not a new one, at least outside of gaming. None of the Indiana Jones have a number, for example, Star Trek dropped the numbers after their 6th movie and series like Fast and the furious have jumped back and forth from using the numbers or not using them, and I'm sure if I took longer to think about it I would find other examples.
Books have basically never used numbers to denote their chronology either.
As for games, going all the way back to Metroid we have a series that does not use numbers outside of the rare Metroid 2, that dropped that number on its remake, plus all the other ones I mentioned.
Assassin's creed is even more interesting because for all purpsoses, if you follow Desmond's arc, the entry numbers are all wrong.
And interestingly, Assassin's Creed IV: Blackflag, was past Desmond's arc. And it's not like the other games don't follow the modern time storyline, they all do. Characters from all games keep coming back, and the arc continues, but its there mostly for those players that play every entry. A new player that simply jumps into a random entry can entirely ignore what is going on in present time besides what is presented to them in that entry.
@Tharsman Again though, Star Trek and Indiana Jones at those points didn't actually have a chronological story to tell about the characters. That's the big difference. You bring up a good point with books though, it has been traditionally much rarer.
Metroid is a stranger one, because the console games up to Prime were really just "upgraded replacements" that were really just retelling the same game with a loose story making it "sequel." They started building a chronology on the handhelds, but then each one was kind of its own spinoff. But then they started numbering with Prime where it actually built a continuous story through present.
For AC, AC Brotherhood and revelations were technically Assassin's Creed 2: Brotherhood and Assassin's Creed 2: Revelations. They were stand-alone expansion packs back in a pre-DLC age. AC4 wasn't connected to Desmond, but it was still connected to the characters (the Kenways) in Desmond's final story, so it was always awkward calling it 4, but it was technically a prequel to the Kenway story. There's an argument for or against going with "4" in there. IMO it doesn't even seem like an AC game...it really felt like a stand-alone Spinoff like Skull & Bones except yknow...good. And actually launched.... My opinion is, yes, they should not have had an AC4 because it didn't really continue the ongoing story arc. But if they ever follow up on Cassie or Bassim they should and probably would make it "2" to denote that.
Then there's Farcry which is...Yeah, IDK why that's numbered. At all. It really shouldn't be either IMO. But, Yakuza/LaD, if you skip a chapter, you're just missing a chunk of story for main characters. You don't HAVE to play them all. You don't HAVE to watch all 3 Lord of the Ring movies in order. But you're jumping in in the middle no matter what.
Of course LaD is unusual. How many games follow a single character through their entire life? It follows from young thug, through parenthood and over the hill. If AC followed Desmond until he was old enough to complain about how series are numbered on the internet, we should definitely be on AC 9.
@NEStalgia All the 2D Metroid games have chronology, the SNES one even makes sure to recap what happened in Samus Returns, without it, the ending makes no sense.
Sooner or later, I do expect Far Cry to loosen its numbering. Given the last entry didnt perform great, it's very likely the next entry will be the first "mainline" entry to do so.
Interestingly, I feel Titan Fall as an IP would had succeeded had it not named the second entry Titan Fall 2. The first entry was online only, no single player campaign, and exclusive to Xbox. When the sequel came out, I recall a lot of people not having any interest because it was ... well "Titan Fall 2", a sequel to a game no one played (because... It didn't exist, and I don't mean just to PS4 owners, but there was no actual campaign.) I'm envisioning a world where Titan Fall 2 had been called something else, marketed as the first chapter story wise, it might had been given a chance.
Adding a number at the end can sometimes capitalize on the success of a previous entry, but it also might doom your chances and lock you to a sub-set of your previous audience, unless its very well communicated that the sequel is very stand alone (like Final Fantasy mainline entries.)
@Tharsman Eh, kind of, with Metroid. They did have a sort of "Nintendo type story", but they weren't exactly narrative driven games and were very much "Metroid game, Super Nintendo version. Metroid game, Game Boy Advance version". Retooled a bit, retold a bit, it did have the intros and all, but it's not focused on a story, they were very much "That game, new edition, for new hardware."
And of course on the SNES Nintendo was very much into adding "Super" to everything to denote "upgraded new version sequel". And then again with "64". Their own sort of numbering system.
But yeah, overall if something is numbered it has to actually be a continuation of something. I think a lot of companies got obsessed with confusion numbered sequels with number versions. It wasn't Titan Fall 2, it was Titan Fall v2.0. And was basically a wholly different game. Just because numbering chronologies is a good idea doesn't make number random things a good idea. Too many companies missed that memo.
Pikmin is an example where it's less about a chronology and more about versioning. It's Pikmin 4.0. Same game concept, newest version. Spiderman 2 is about continuation, etc. And things like Far Cry and Titan Fall make no sense to be numbered as they are. LaD though.... It's either Kiryu's 8th/9th game or Ichi's second. Either way it really makes sense to have a number. And in Japan it does. I could see going with LaD2 in the West, but I do think "infinite wealth" creates more confusion than it solves. Numbering it may lock you into existing players, but not numbering it means nobody that doesn't follow it even knows they should be buying the previous games. Picture the store or subscription page for all 7 Yakuzas but without numbers for each. Considering half the cast from each dies within two games that could be pretty confusing lol.
"goes on to explain the concept of infinity and concludes that once players have finished the game you may “even be enticed to provide a subtitle of your own”."
I think you're still confused, he talks about adding your own subtitle to the Japanese release.
Alright...I'm just going to keep calling it Yakuza and call it Yakuza 8 okay? I know they don't want to call it Yakuza anymore because the Yakuza aren't really the primary focus anymore in the series but it's short and I've been calling it that for years. It's burned into my brain.
Sega will still get my money anyway so I'm sure they don't mind!😄
@WhensDinner Thank you!
Their explanation made about as much sense as the plot for Lost Judgment
I've got a friend who is very wary about playing games with large numbers in the title, because he feels like he should start from 1.
I dunno. I think everyone interested in this series will know there were yakuza 1 to 5 before it. Even if they started with 7 and even more so given Kiryu is coming back and has his own stand alone title coming too.
Makes me think of The Stanley Parable
@Brydontk Thank you very much for the detailed explanation! I've never played any of the games before and was a little bit lost.
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