There’s a growing sentiment among the gaming enthusiast circles, not necessarily always backed up by fact, that console gaming is collapsing. While it’s true the market is facing issues of spiralling costs and slowing growth, it’s a concern not always rooted in reality. Case in point: Sony’s just announced PS5 is its most profitable generation to date.
That’s perhaps a surprising revelation considering alarmist stories that have circulated recently, like the fact many people are still playing on PS4. The reality, however, is that the PS5 is selling roughly at pace with its predecessor – and is even ahead in the United States, as proven by Circana data. Meanwhile, service games are bigger than ever, hardware prices have remained abnormally high, and subscription revenue is up enormously.
In the four years PS5 has been on the market, it’s amassed $10 billion in operating income, more than the $9 billion PS4 managed between 2013 to 2019. For the sake of comparison, PS1 managed $3 billion, PS2 just $2 billion, and PS3 ultimately lost $4 billion. Revenue is also through the roof for PS5, matching that of PS4 in significantly less time.
So why the doom and gloom, then? Well, as the above graph shows, profits have declined sharply over the past two years due to rising costs in the pandemic’s aftermath. This is the enormous problem Sony needs to solve: PlayStation is selling better than it ever has, but the company as a whole is spending outrageous sums of money to maintain its position. If it can streamline its outgoings, then the business will be healthier than it’s ever been.
[source sony.com]
Comments 44
income and revenue up because things are more expensive but last paragraph says profits have declined sharply thats where the doom and gloom have come from
It's amazing how Sony went from a game publisher to a game distributor this generation.
"In the four years PS5 has been on the market, it’s amassed $10 billion in operating income, more than the $9 billion PS4 managed between 2013 to 2019."
Having looked at the presentation, I don't believe these figures are adjusted for inflation. Sure, 2013-2019 wasn't that long ago but I think inflation will eat into the $1bn difference between the PS4 period and the PS5 period.
@trev666 But worth noting even with the sharp decline in profit it's still higher than any other period earlier than 2017.
@trev666 2023 was better than 2022 and with the Xbox debacle 2024 will be even better
Same thing with Nintendo
What's interesting is full game sales are down. Nearly all the increase is add on content sales. And subscriptions which, with a massive price hike, if course.
Considering the highlighted games are all the usual suspects it mostly builds the image of ps becoming a box to buy skins and battle passes on for the usual dozen ps3/mobile games. Not really where people on this site will feel fuzzy about the future.
They're also benefitting from Xbox drunken implosion shifting PS5 sales up of course.
Playstation just keeps going from strength to strength 💪.
Amazing considering how we keep getting told that the ps5 is under powered,old tech and is expensive for what it is..so glad I over spent on an ageing console that's barely better than a ps4 pro..
Thank goodness, I was really stressed out about how this Fortune 500 company was gonna keep the lights on.
How are they generating that record operating income? By giving us what we want? Or just jacking up the prices? Something in between? You decide.
@Northern_munkey the PS5 is old tech. Since the PS4 and Xbox one, Microsoft and Sony haven’t built bespoke machines that are state of the art for a brief time. Whereas previous console generations from the beginning brought more to the table engineering wise. Inflation and console consumers not wanting to pay the price for a state of the art console is the blame. The original 900$ PS3 which sold at 600$ at launch was a better machine if everything else was equal.
Well almost every single giant gaming company which includes EA, Activation, Take-Two and Ubisoft are making more billions now then they ever had in their entire history! Yet there are more layoffs now from them then ever before, make it make sense 😐
Inflation is what is cutting into the profits. Along with console consumers not wanting to pay increased prices for games or consoles. The console gaming industry hasn’t kept up with inflation IMO. The three have done a good job with keeping prices competitive. But we don’t get the bespoke SOCs anymore which were leading for a brief time when the console launched. Also console gamers bemoan about the costs of software which also hasn’t kept up with inflation. People are sad that other people get laid off at these gaming studios yet don’t want to pay a higher price for the software. People at those studios need to earn a living as well and want more compensation too. As far as entertainment value goes video games provide more hours of value than any other entertainment avenue. So people need to pay up. Then there are those that expect subscription services to have a big library. So this is a lot for these companies to balance especially a company like Sony that isn’t software rich like Microsoft whom can afford to be more liberal with their money. I comment the three for keeping gaming affordable despite every other industry increasing prices due to inflation but the gaming hobby will get more expensive.
I'm not surprised that the PS5 is Sony's most profitable console to date, we see similar trends with the Nintendo Switch as these platform holders now make a significant amount of their money through the enormous amount of microtransactions and dlc that flow through their stores, plus their subscription services.
What's crazy to see is how Playstation was in a really bad spot with the PS3 and they're somewhat fortunate that Xbox fumbled the ball with the Xbox One launch
@Vaako007 thanks for the history lesson. I feel like I've never owned any other console other than the ps5 in my 40 plus years as a gamer. Have you ever heard of sarcasm my friend?
Xbox fans: Playstation is losing so much money they need to bring their games to PC.
Sony: My money so tall that your Barbie’s gotta climb it
@Vaako007 Why would players pay full price for new games to play essentially a beta version, when they can wait a few months to a year to buy the fixed version at a discount? This is a problem caused entirely by the industry itself, pointing fingers at consumers who are looking to get the best value for their money feels all backwards.
@Juanalf I don't think it's that simple. Especially with several of their games being extremely expensive to make and many of them bombing.
In other news, rice is white
@Ainu20 console consumers will still bemoan about the cost of a full complete game at 70$ and the hardware. Nothing wrong with getting the best value for one’s coin. All I’m saying is there are tradeoffs. We all can’t have free lunches.
I agree though the industries suit types are to blame for rushed work that is more common place these days.
Worth bearing in mind this is an investor briefing where they cherry pick some stats to try and put on a good show to entice more spending. But if you read a little deeper between the lines not everything is rosy. E.g. their profit margin has been below 7% for 2 years straight and they are having to spend more and more money to see those profits. They will still need to cut costs or increase revenue to get to a healthier 10%+ profit margin. Currently they could just invest the money they spend on PlayStation elsewhere and get similar or better returns.
@Northern_munkey naturally mate.
@stBoa not after a great big dollop of HP sauce it ain’t 🤣🤣
It doesn't matter how many consoles they sell if they are barely making any money. Revenue and operating don't matter if they have an extremely low profit margin.
I didn't realise how much they lost on PS3. No wonder PS4 was such a change and they effectively ditched the PS3
I'm more so worried about rising game costs, and how Sony will adapt to that. I imagine most of their profits are coming from the 30% cut they get from purchases on their platform, PS Plus, stuff like that. But games like Spiderman 2 having a budget of $300 million is just wacky, and these types of budgets are only going to increase more and more unless Sony takes action to limit budgets on their games. Eventually, if budgets keep going out of control, Sony is going to reach a tipping point where even their biggest AAA games can't profit anymore. They have to get their budgets under control.
Yep, firing employees, closing down studios, and jacking up prices will do that. I'm so happy for those shareholders.
@themightyant This. They’re burning all the coal to keep that small profit. Hell, they had to throw a few developers off the train too.
Personally, seeing MTs/subs make a lot of those gains is concerning, especially when they say their software isn’t selling…but the other article is talking about boosting accessories to non-PS owners.
Super curious to see what this State of Play shows us. Gonna guess there’ll be a few live-service pitches after this news. Buy that new skin!
@PSme oh yeah! 😁
@BigRadical This has been the case for a long time. It's not just that MTX and DLC make up almost half of Sony's software revenue (49.8% in FY23) it's that the profit margins on these items are MUCH higher for Sony.
And we can complain as much as we want about this, but we're like a sparrow in a hurricane - the numbers don't lie here -gamers, as a whole, buy a LOT of microtransactions.
@UnlimitedSevens
It's not from jacking up the prices clearly. Or at least the increased prices are justified. Inflation is a real thing.
The talking point of "it's corporate greed" is false in almost all sectors of the economy (used cars being a notable exception, although that has come down substantially now.)
Sony is maintaining the same ~9% profit level over revenue as they did during the PS4.
At $500 (and especially now at $450) the PS5 is BY FAR the best bang for buck you can get in gaming.
@TrickyDicky99 Yeah, you're right, they're mainly loss leader products to make sure that people choose PS5 over everything else, and then the real money is made on that juicy cut that Sony gets from everything else. As long as budgets don't go too insane, it will probably continue to be worth it for them.
Honestly, I'm just envious of companies like Nintendo, which get away with so much in terms of software sales while spending dimes compared to companies like Sony.
If this is the case why is sony talking about moving on to the next gen by 2026? Why did they say a few weeks ago that the Ps5 wasn't hitting the sales they were expecting? One of the two isn't right. Pick a lane sony.
With more and more games costing £/$70 I’m not at all surprised
@Robocrop_Duster Where does the claim that Sony are talking about next-gen in 2026 come from? I've never heard anything of the sort, and it seems completely opposed to the strong rumours of a PS5 Pro.
@ChrisDeku "Xbox fans: Playstation is losing so much money they need to bring their games to PC."
I was unaware that Hiroki Totoki was an Xbox fan.
@Ainu20 my source is a Push Square article "Ps5 is entering the 'latter half of it's life cycle' says Sony"
Also the same title from an ign article where they specifically talk about Ps5 sales coming in lower than expected.
It's also interesting how they show "PS5 Generation" numbers, but that's actually "cross-gen numbers" for those big spikes in 2020, 2021 which is why that spike is so big. A chunk of what they're counting as "PS5 generation" sales in this graph is actually "PS4 generation sales". The graph is linear by year. If you ignore the "PS4, PS5" header, that's just showing a big spike for 2020, 2021 after 2019, but that's not all PS5, that's PS4 + PS5 during the lockdown boom. Then we see the operating income lines plummet after that.
@Vaako007 The inflation angle simply doesn't hold in discretionary spending. It's not just that the "buttercup" consumers need to "suck it up" and pay more. Inflation means that the core costs of the things everyone must by have increased. Despite the bizarrely accounted "3% + 5% + 9+ etc" the realistic required spend of living on non-discretionary goods has increased an effective 30-40% or so in 4 years. And quite a bit more since the PS3 era. Most people's incomes have not increased 30-40% in 4 years. Most people's won't increase by that much in 10 years. By the accounting of the biggest bank in the US, all but the top 1% (that's not populist 1% rhetoric, that's actual bank data) is behind where they were in 2019. And that doesn't account for at least in the US the gutting of the middle class (which used to be the gaming consumer) since 2008, and really since 1980. They propagandize with "wage growth has eclipsed inflation!" when it hasn't in real terms. What they mean is minimum wage workers (that couldn't afford video games) got significant boosts to still not be able to afford the inflated basics (or video games), and the six-figure high income group has seen significant percentage growth in those positions, The $150,000 earner may easily have seen growth to $200,000 (which still isn't the 30% growth on base costs but in that bracket that's offset by decreases in luxury prices), but the $40,000 earner may have seen growth to $48,000 if they're lucky. Meaning they are WAY behind where they were in 2019. Also keeping in mind that tax percentages on higher cost goods means more money out in taxes as well, raising costs even more than at a glance. They simply have LESS money to spend on video games than they did years ago, and keeping game prices "up to date" with inflation makes the discrepancy worse. The money won't magically materialize by charging more.
So gaming then gets a choice. Move down-market to F2P, subs, etc? Or move up-market, start charging the remaining whales double to recoup costs? If going up-market, PS meets PCMR in a losing cage match. If moving downmarket it comes up against phones. It's not as simple as "just raise the game prices to $120 a game and hope sales don't plummet because inflation means it's fair! For that to be viable we'd need laws that require wages automatically match inflation, and inflation calculations that actually calculate inflation rather than odd financial valuations of things that don't affect people's actual cost of goods and purchasing power. But then, the whole of fiat currency would be broken so that can't happen either.
Bottom line is, no, video games and most "entertainment" can not, and never will be able to "keep up with inflation", consumer spend on video games will shrink in light of inflation, or rather perpetual stagflation, not grow. And we can see effects of that truth in the chart showing almost 200% growth in "add-on content" and a 12% drop in game sales. And that's in raw revenue, not unit sales. Entertainment companies may not like that their costs go up while consumer spend per customer goes down, but that's how the entertainment industry will forever have to operate. It's not insurance, they can't just say "we're doubling your rate, you have no choice, too bad, get a second job." They tried that once. Didn't work.
This story and overall conversation around the topic just go to show how the number one thing missing on the internet discourse is nuance.
No, the gaming industry is not desperately struggling. And no, it's not living through its most prosperous years either.
The most common mistake people do in financial investments is making decisions based solely on historic data. And this article makes that exact mistake. Sure, the last paragraph sort of mitigates that error, but not sufficiently.
The truth is the future does look a little bleak, and the industry needs to course correct. And in fact, this is already underway, but we've only seen the early beginnings.
@Robocrop_Duster Nothing in there states what you're saying. Don't make up quotes.
@Ainu20 go to
https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-entering-the-latter-stage-of-its-life-cycle-sony-says
2nd paragraph.
@Robocrop_Duster There is literally no mention of Sony talking about next-gen in 2026 in that article. None.
@Ainu20 I apologize. I thought you were challenging me on the flip flop sales. As for the 2026 aspect. I can't find a direct source right now. Only a lot of sites speculating on a 2026 launch. I may be able to find something with more time spent.
Hail to PS5.
It will be my new experience for playing 3rd party kids games in smooth 60 fps, faster loading time and colorful & cute kids games. 😊
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