
The announcement that Jake Solomon, first amongst the legendary Sid Meier's pupils, had left Firaxis to start his studio, Midsummer Studios, comes as a surprise, especially with the switch from strategy to the life sim genre. Looking towards the opportunity to create something entirely different, Soloman reflected on where his last game, Marvel's Midnight Suns, went wrong.
A great game at its core, Midnight Suns takes the XCOM formula that has come to be synonymous with Solomon, mixing social elements with a card-based combat system. Critics and players loved it, but the game was ultimately considered a commercial flop. Speaking to VGC, he explains that the cards were probably to blame: "I think cards were a major problem. It was a good design solution, but I was naive about what people would think when they saw the mechanic was cards. Not everyone on my team was behind the idea, but they trusted me."
Then there is the issue with how the game was perceived, which, as Soloman describes it, was not exactly what he was hoping for: "The most typical reaction when people play Midnight Suns is surprise, and that's not the reaction you want. That is not the reaction that lends itself to mass appeal."
What did you think of Marvel's Midnight Suns? Did you get around to playing it? Was it the cards, as Soloman suggests, that was the problem? Let us know in the comments section below.
[source videogameschronicle.com]
Comments 39
I completed it when it hit ps plus and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Maybe the cards put off a good part of people at 1st gut reaction but once you tried it, that aspect is fun as well.
The social thing is kinda fun and gives some mood, but it's pretty cheesy.
Combat is a lot of fun, if you can get into turn-based action, its good.
What's a flop nowadays.., no ferraris for ceos.
I am one of those who was put off by the cards mechanic.
I love X-COM 2 and jumped into the demo excited, quickly left with the feeling this isn't for me. I'd rather play more X-COM 2.
It had a really addictive feedback loop of getting better cards.
I enjoyed the cards mechanic but I understand people were expecting marvel xcom not marvel card game. The thing is if they were expecting "mass appeal" then not even a xcom game would have saved the game from failure. The regular super hero game enjoyer wants action, if you see videos of this game most negative comments are about the turns mechanic not the cards.
I can see cards not having the same visceral appeal, but it played well.
Mechanically the games biggest problem IMO was the wider game loop was built around all these finite resources - do you do a mission to get currency, get ability points or get upgrade materials? Yet there was no limit to the number of missions you can do, so it was all faff.
I think they built an iteration of the game that had more of a hardcore Xcom feel, but late in the day tore that bit out.
The fact it’s a card game was the only thing that led me to download it from plus. Still haven’t played it though. Had my itched scratched with Roguebook lately
I never saw gameplay, so I didn't know if I would like it or not. N coz it was a marvel game, I didn't bother checking it out as I'm not really a fan.
Ultimately, yes think it was just seen as a ‘card’ game. I quite liked it but the social element outside of combat was dated, the battle areas were tiny, and it suffered from having an unknown main character - a sin considering Marvel has literally 100s of very well known heroes. It just wasn’t what it appeared.
I hate cards in general but I gave it ago because u love xcom and stuff like that and while the game was. Good I just hated the card system so gave up after not to long.
It's a shame as otherwise could have been great
The card system was excellent though, with quite a bit of depth and build variety. Shame.
For me it was just slow and boring and the graphics for me felt more like a late ps3 to ps4 game.
Didn't enjoy the card aspect, I understand games have to have a mechanic for the use of special abilities, but I always feel like your just holding me back from what that super hero offers if I can only use things sparingly. But I do respect what they tried to do and totally get why people liked it. Just card mechanics aren't for me
Was the same with avengers, the avengers were only the avengers once you grindfor hours on end to reach max level. Its painful. And you had to do that for each character I mean that was the least of that games problems but sometbings just dont work.
I loved the cards. They played really well, especially to begin with. Drawing from a deck of cards is a nicer randomiser than rolling virtual dice as the odds of a particular outcome narrows until it happens. With naked RNG you can miss all day. I’m surprised if that really put strategy game players off in large numbers. People expecting an action game like Guardians of the Galaxy, perhaps. They were the bit I would keep. Without the cards, it wouldn’t even be a cult hit.
I think it flopped because it felt unfinished. It started well, but the mission maps were repetitive and the difficulty didn’t scale well. The bosses were frustrating. The upgrade system was powerful, but also unbalanced. You would end up with uber moves you had to use over and over.
Also, it’s cosmic. Everybody hates cosmic. Even the characters in cosmic know that everybody hates cosmic, and that’s what people don’t like! How do your own characters know that cosmic always flops, and you don’t? 🤣 And there was a LOT of it. It’s another bold choice…
I’m not sure cards were simply a bad idea. I think it’s a not great card system. It’s a good concept, but the execution feels hurried. The closer you get to the end of the game, the more unpolished everything seems. I’d love to know if they felt rushed.
I wanted to play poker with my friends yesterday so I bought a deck of cards. When I saw there were cards in the deck of cards, I was put off immediately.
it went wrong the moment i found out that it wasnt a spiritual successor to ultimate alliance. its a shame too because i love the looks/graphics of this game
That TCG Genius Invocation game in Genshin Impact is also the one component that I completely ignore.
Numerous factors put me off - the Cards was one aspect, the XCOM connection and turn based combat was also a major turn-off.
I wouldn't play any game with that style of Game-play loop regardless of the story or how popular the IP the game-play is wrapped in. Just because the Story maybe great or fact it's a 'Marvel' game doesn't mean that people will buy if the Game-play doesn't appeal.
If people had given it a shot I’m sure they would have loved it. Although blade and wolverine in book club just felt weird to me.
Gotta say I probably wasn't the target market for this, but the card based battling definitely put me off. It's just not my cup of tea. Regardless had I played it I might have liked it, but that was stopping me from giving it a try.
It's a great game. I'll never understand its failure.
For the gamer:
Slay the Spire good
Firaxis good
For the Marvel fan:
characters good
story good
And Marvel Snap and Spiderman games are massively popular, tying the two target audiences and game genre.
And the game just didnt sell. Its blasphemy honestly.
The card system was actually really cool and really helped set it apart. Its a shame the game sold poorly.
@McDosy Cosmic? There's nothing cosmic in Midnight Subs its based around magic and the supernatural. Also The Infinity Saga was based around a big cosmic being and his cosmic stones so yeah sure cosmic = flop 🙄
If you played Slay the Spire then you probably like cards. At least that was what did it for me.
I really enjoyed it. If you are a marvel fan, I'd strongly suggest at least giving it a try even if it doesn't look like something you'd like on the surface.
The cards were absolutely a problem. Deck building games had got a lot of hype at the time, and these guys decided to chase the trend, instead of doing something more natural and nuanced. The presentation was also totally lacking, in that it looked like a ps3 gane half the time, and the story and character interaction was so exceptionally cringe. A solid game, at its core, mired by all the trappings.
I'm playing this currently and love it, despite its flaws. I think the idea of deck building and cards does not have "mass appeal", I'll be honest I didn't follow the trailers and such after I heard it was that. But beyond that, I just don't think this is a game that was easy to explain or market, nor was basing a game around a Marvel B-team a great idea. I like Marvel, generally, but had no idea what a Midnight Sun was.
It's a bummer it flopped. I think there's a really solid core. It's been a fun ride.
I played the game when it first came out and very much enjoyed it. Is it as good as XCOM? No. Probably not even close really. I would have preferred the game to have forgone the card system, and also I wasn't completely sold on all the time that I had to spend cosying up to each of the characters. I would have preferred the synergy required to unlock the top tier abilities to have been built from battling with one another.
Would I recommend the game? Absolutely. Not as good as XCOM does not equate to it being a bad game, just not as good as it could have been, which is a criticism that can be aimed at most games...
The cards put me off massively at the time, not a fan of that gameplay. But I’ve been playing it and it’s been fantastic. Onto the final mission and it’s way better than it first appeared. The cards and relying on certain ones being drawn aren’t even really that much of a nuisance as the environmental based gameplay is the real star of the show. Playing as the Hunter was a great idea too, they actually have a lot of personality and it means you can interact with the other heroes without being tied into somebody existing’s morality system. More than anything, it’s just nice having the mystical side of Marvel explored. Nico and Magik alone have deserved more love for years.
Don’t think it’s a problem with this game but games in general. Kids have way more stuff to engage with these days tech wise compared to us fogeys from the 80/90s. Most game sales are slipping unless it’s an iPhone game is that fair?
FYI massive Firaxis apologist here, XCOM and XCOM 2 is in my all time top 10 games, so I was always going to play Midnight Suns. I can see the cards putting off perhaps casual comic book/Marvel fans, but if you play several hours into, you will rewarded with smart, ever-evolving gameplay with incredible rooster of Marvel heroes. The social stuff and dialogue is questionable, but nothing beats the feeling of Captain Marvel going Binary! Completed the story and enjoyed the 50+ hour journey. Currently on PS Plus Extra!
I was concerned about how the cards and battle would fit together in that game, but I shouldn’t have worried: It was great. The cards put a really fun spin on a fantastic battle system.
Midnight Suns was superb, and most Importantly really fun. If trepidation over the cards kept people away, that is a real shame.
I picked this up on PSN sale not that long ago with it came with all the DLC. Looking forward to playing it.
No, the cards were great. The problem was throwing in an uninteresting social aspect and awful exploration.
XCOM 2 is basically may favorite game, and when they announced their next game was a MARVEL game i was just so incredibly disappointed. i tried my best anyway but couldnt make it more than two hours in, not because of the gameplay, which was pretty great, but because of MARVEL. i just couldnt possibly care less about these characters. i think for a lot of xcom fans a big part of the loop was building your own characters, getting attached to them, worried about sending them out to possibly die. not like... the relationship between wolverine and ghost rider. ugh god who cares. in the end it wasnt the cards, it was the IP. they probably thought it was going to bring them a bigger audience but what it actually did was alienate a lot of xcom fans who could not possibly care less about superhero sh*t.
Canceling the switch version killed it for me. I bought it for xbox later at a deep discount. I haven’t opened it yet but the cards thing concerned me as well.
Yep, I wanted X-com 2 with Marvel characters, the cards and the friendship stuff put me right off.
It sucks cuz other than the nonsense story, the game is pretty damn good. It's definitely than the Callisto Protocol and alot of games that have came out since it's release
I mean, for me it was the fact it was turn-based at all. I've never enjoyed the cognitive dissonance of watching people in a fight take turns slapping each other. It's always perplexed me.
If you're throwing me in a game with a ton of wildly fun and powerful superheroes, I don't want to watch them standing around. Period.
The moment they said it was turn-based was when I knew it wasn't for me. Had nothing to do with cards.
Great game. Couldn't put it down even after the plat. Still play it.
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