
FromSoftware's games demand a lot from players, mandating they engage with mechanics and "lock in" to overcome punishing, master-crafted combat encounters. While the level of challenge required by each entry is open for debate, one thing is sure: studio director and sadist Hidetaka Miyazaki has weighed in on the inevitable Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree discourse and (we hope) put the difficulty debate to rest for good.
Speaking to The Guardian, Miyazaki explained that if the studio wanted its games to be more accessible, they would have made them that way. FromSoftware titles stand out because they buck established norms, demanding something from the player. In the case of Elden Ring, this is not only a fact the developer is keenly aware of but actively banking on:
"If we really wanted the whole world to play the game, we could just crank the difficulty down more and more. But that wasn't the right approach. Had we taken that approach, I don't think the game would have done what it did because the sense of achievement that players gain from overcoming these hurdles is such a fundamental part of the experience. Turning down difficulty would strip the game of that joy — which, in my eyes, would break the game itself."
How do you feel about Miyazaki's (and, by extension, FromSoftware's) stance on the difficulty of its games generally, and in Elden Ring in particular? At over a frankly ludicrous 25 million copies sold, it's clear the studio is on the right path, with other developers still attempting to capture even a fraction of its magic. Let us know in the comments section below, and if you need a helping hand, take a look at our Elden Ring guide.
[source theguardian.com]
Comments 94
It is very simple: a dev should be allowed to make the game that he chooses. Don't like that? Don't play it. No one is forcing you to.
A lot of these people demanding an easy mode reek of extreme entitlement if you ask me.
Honestly the point of those games is that they are very difficult, if you don't like difficult games why would you even want to play this game?
Imagine playing a jump&run and then complain that you have to jump in that game. Sounds stupid, right?
Not every game is for everyone and people really need to understand that
I mean I suck ass at Souls games, but I respect it.
Games are art. And it is strictly up to the artist(s) how he presents his work to the world.
I applaud Miyazaki for holding firm in a gaming landscape that often goes for the lowest common denominator.
It’s not like there’s a lack of easy games on the market. Would I lower the difficulty after the 50th try against some sadistic boss if it were possible? Sure, the temptation would be strong. But it would also ruin that wonderful sense of accomplishment you get in Fromsoft games.
So, no difficulty options for me, please.
@HotGoomba @mariomaster96 @LifeGirl I agree with all 3 of you apart from the "reek of entitlement" bit. Just because people would like to see a difficulty setting dosnt make them "entitled" as they are asking for a game series to be more accessible to them so they can enjoy them too. Personally speaking I love how hard these games are as they challenge me and give me a sense of accomplishment once I complete the game. Everybody knows these games are tough cookies but that dosnt mean the option to make it a bit more forgiving shouldn't be there.
@Oxy 👍
I think the problem that more players are having isn't that these games are difficult, but HOW the developers have chosen to make them difficult. The Souls genre has been going for a while now and every entry the development team has to come up with a fresh way to keep players on their toes so the series doesn't become stale. I think this has lead to some design choices in Elden Ring that some players just don't agree with.
I've got a mild disability that limits my hands' dexterity. I love the world that has been created for this game but due to the lack of accessibility options I'll never be able to play it. That said, I respect the creator's vision. They can do whatever they want with their own game. As bummed as I am that I'm excluded, there are plenty of other games for me to play.
I loved Dark Souls games years ago but now i find (some of) them not only too difficult but even frustrating, Shadow of the Erdtree is the perfect representation of this. Some design choices are bulls**t which in other games would be heavily criticized
@LifeGirl nothing to do with ‘entitlement’ . It is just a mass market who also wants to enjoy with a challenge but at the same time not over-bearing . Most people have lives beyond games and while a challenge is welcome to encourage motivation , many players will soon lose interest and may not even try . I find it difficult , I have a life with actual sunshine and people to go out with , so I don’t have an abundance of time to mould myself to a gaming chair , so it is disappointing I can’t play it and appreciate the art style , but I wouldn’t call myself among many as ‘entitled ‘
@glassmusic @Mustoe What about the PS accessibility controller that Sony made? I feel that is a good way of helping players with disabilities without directly affecting the game itself.
Respect to Miyazaki for making the games he wants to make. With all the focus group tested, corporate meddling that goes into media these days it is honestly refreshing.
Having said that, the souls games just aren't for me. I simply don't have the time to repeat a frustrating boss encounter over and over until I get good. There are so many other games I want to try with my limited time. And when I have given these games a try I've not found the "rush" when you finally topple a boss to be worth the effort to get there.
Would I play them if there were an "easy" mode? Definitely - I'd still appreciate the games art, story, music, world and characters without the tiresome repetition. But I get why it isn't there and I'm happy with that. There is a lot of other stuff to play!
I agree that the games are meant to be hard and it's all about the sense of achievement. I wouldn't say I'm good at soulsborne games but I've finished DS1 and 3, Bloodborne and Sekiro (got stuck on fire giant on Elden ring).
Also what people who don't play it don't get is that if you level up and get some of the best weapons in the game, you can make the game easy it just takes a bit of time. I managed to beat some of the harder bosses in Bloodborne in a handful of hits
@glassmusic there's a few games I'm interested in but won't ever get to. For some of these I've watched a playthrough on YouTube while I do other things, like potter around in the garage, run on the treadmill etc. The last one I did was The Outer Wilds. The controls in that game were too annoying but I wanted to see what the fuss was about. It worked for me.
Not every game is going to appeal to everyone and that's okay. I would love a Mature rated Zelda game, am I going to scream at Miyamoto because he's not making the game I would like? He developes the games that make him happy and Miyazaki is allowed to do the same (in turn also making the fans happy).
This is what fans of their games have been saying forever. Every game is not designed for everyone, more casual gamers should just skip the game and play a game they will enjoy, there are plenty of them.
For alot of us the difficulty is the joy, and I grow tired of people trying to take that away just because they are not good enough and have to actually overcome something difficult
I've always loved the sheer challenge of his art, however the fundamental design of ER poses a risk to the form. I personally feel the boss design has become gratuitous and lacking the subtle finesse of prior titles, as the difficulty (see roll catch baiting delays as an example) has been obtusely elevated to account for spirit ashes. I was watching that dancing lion fight and his moves were sporadically unreadable, aswell as his attacks being replete with three different elements no less. So the fact Miyazaki says moving forwards their games will balance freedom and difficulty, just makes me think 'sh!+ it's over...' The new core design principles are not well calibrated to the lone sword & board that wants to forego spirit ashes and other grandiose measures, essentially you're in for a dire time. It's amusing because the game that preceded it was the antithesis of ER, a solipsistically minded, ruthless challenge - Sekiro.
@LifeGirl "a dev should be allowed to make the game that he chooses"
I definitely agree with your statement here but I'm not sure you completely agree with it 😅 you were saying something else in many articles about the new Tomb Raider game, so you fully support whatever direction they take their game? 🧐
Games from Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Eden Ring are for a set crowd they always have been based on it's difficulty. The amount of people I know who have told me oh I'm playing Dark Souls and I'm like "Good Luck".
For only about 2 weeks later I ask how's it going and they've told me they quit in rage, and I happily remind them that's what the games are famous for. Incredible world of characters and world with mad boss fights and plenty of them.
If he's going to change it in the future then your franchise that is famous for it will be no more. To cater to people who don't like it been difficult should go elsewhere I for one have never played them because I know my rage would be through the roof and to me that's not me enjoying it so I don't bother.
True, I remember starting Journey 2 waltzing through all the bosses, felt a bit uninteresting and started a new game proper.
When I first started the DLC, I felt woefully out of depth. The only character I had was at SL 271 and on NG++ and in the first few hours I got annihilated every time. Had a tinker with my respec and now I'm enjoying it much, much more, gradually chipping away at enemies I wouldn't have considered in the first few hours of playing. All things considered, I'd say it was a combination of rustiness (hadn't played base game for over a year) and possibly the NG++ element too. But now, now I'm 'enjoying' it. Getting 2 or 3 shotted with 99 HP is very frustrating though, just need to git gud again I suppose.
Ah yes. The topic that just always seems to come up every single time a Fromsoft game/dlc releases. Hopefully his comments will have finally gotten through to people that the studio simply isn't interested in making the game easier? He is 100% correct too. As great as the world and lore is they are not presented in a way that would be enjoyable without the challenge. I really don't think anyone would enjoy an easier difficulty setting version of a game like Elden Ring.
Is that a design issue? Perhaps in some folks eyes but it's Fromsoft's decision as the devs and people need to respect that. There are plenty of other great games out there that are accepting of a more general audience. Go play them. It's as simple as that.
I don't like Football so guess what i don't play Football games. If you don't like hard games don't play them its really that simple.
Stupid question maybe, but cant you change the level of difficulty like in other games? Is there only one fixed level?
I dont know whats more difficult. Fromsoft games difficulties, or pressing a couple of buttons on a keyboard and doing a bit of research before buying something then complaining about it later..
people are way to entitled these days and love to moan about everything. at the end of the day no one forced you to buy the game. and if people still cant grasp the fact fromsoft games are difficult all the way back from the ps1 era, then thats not fromsofts problem, thats your fault
Completely agree they should be able to make the game they want and that ONE of the great things about FromSoft games is overcoming adversity through persistence. That is a valid goal.
Yet I am also a firm believer in accessibility. But it's a tough nut to crack as IF there were actual accessibility options - allowing people with various disabilities and impairments to also enjoy the game at a similar RELATIVE difficulty - this would also allow those who just wanted a difficulty slider to tone the game down, and with it removed the satisfaction gained from overcoming the game.
Sadly while they are two separate issues it's impossible not to conflate them. In the end I more strongly believe not everything should be for everyone.
"they buck established norms"
I find pretty much all modern games about as impenetrable as the Souls stuff. That's why I mainly stick to the retro stuff, where I can just use save states.
@glassmusic
I’m a disabled gamer and bought the Access controller and it’s ok. But I just found it only suits certain games like strategy, tactical etc. I’m sure if I gave it more time it would be great but it’s not quite for me and got to buy a separate joystick as not going to buy two of them (I can only use my left arm). Would love to be into souls games but battling huge bosses with one hand will just cause more RSI than I already get.
Fine by me. I only manage to play these games by finding somewhere to grind and overlevelling myself, so I make my own easy mode. Mad respect for the people who are able to finish them at lvl one with the broken sword.
Whilst I don't play these games, I can see that perspective. You don't dumb down Formula 1 so everyone can 'participate' for example.
On the other hand, I can see it from a Customer perspective too who may want to 'play' the game but having spent money, now can't play everything because its just too 'difficult'. That's their 'money' wasted.
Other games have 'brutal' and 'unforgiving' difficulty settings, so why can't these type of games have 'lower' difficulty? If its about a sense of Achievement, then make a Trophy associated with beating it on a certain Difficulty - Trophy hunters and braggers still have that 'badge of honour' for beating the game on its hardest (normal) mode, but at least others don't feel like they've wasted their money.
The other option is to come with a warning about the difficulty, that its designed in a way that many probably won't ever finish the game - 25m Sold but how many actually finished it.
I don't really know what the answer is - Difficulty will mean something different to everyone and what maybe Challenging for some, could be easy for others. That whole 'get good' mentality too doesn't work because some have other 'challenges' to overcome - like playing with disabilities or physical difficulties for example. Therefore I think it makes sense to have Difficulty sliders so everyone can get a sense of achievement...
There is a difference between making a difficult game and a game that is difficult because your camera sucks or because you get stuck behind the terrain etc . Most deaths in Elden ring for me were due to a wonky camera or getting stuck on a rock i shouldnt be getting stuck on.
I think difficulty settings are a good thing to have in most cases, but developers should also do what they think is best for their games. I've not tried Elden Ring yet, but Dark Souls probably wouldn't have felt as impactful to me if I could just lower the difficulty at the first spot of trouble.
@Mustoe I was also taken back by this comment... gamer using old stereotypes to aggress other gamers... amazing...
I have three kids, I play sports every week, see friends, take care of my household chores and am CEO of a small company.. I still got time to "melt into a gaming chair" and platinum the hell out of Elden Ring and all other From games before that... can I play hours at a time, hell no, but can I commit to find time to finish a game I like, for sure !
@Mustoe a I'm more of a console gamer, although my roots go back to computers (not PC. Before that... ) and I do appreciate sitting on a couch with a controller ^^ but to your point you can do that with a PC as well... to each their own ^^
Hope you enjoy the DLC!
That is the best way to describe this Hidetaka Miyazaki, he is a total "sadist" and the fan base can be just as toxic, I avoid it as much as possible, I enjoy far more better games that play fair and are enjoyable, life is already stressful enough to play something so unnerving
Completely agree that the games should be kept as they are....the way the creator wants it to be played...it would take something away from them if there was an easy difficulty....if you dont like it don't play it...
And this is coming from someone who has only managed to finish Sekiro...none of the others...so I'm hardly great
I'm glad Miyazaki stand his ground. These review bombers doesn't understand nor respect artistic & creative freedom for developers.
Played them all and beat them all, including all the DLC, but I've always said the games would be better if they were about 15% easier, and I stand by that. Also nothing wrong with offering difficulty options for people who are not as skilled or who are disabled.
I beat almost every Souls game solely for the extreme difficulty and bizarre graphics, not for the story (what story, really?). If they made the game easy, it would become another Godfall and sink into the abyss...
The problem is that bad game design is often presented as "challenge", and FromSoftware has many excellent game mechanics but also some really annoying things too. Miyazaki is correct, but it shouldn't be a reason to dismiss legitimate constructive criticism. At least they have reduced run backs to boss rooms.
@Ashkorsair Completely agree! Bad controls and camera are not a satisfying challenge, and from soft are slow at addressing the clunky parts of their game engine.
@glassmusic Buddy just download a trainer on pc and play it via steam. You can have unlimited health, one hit kills etc. Just don't go online. I do it because I love the artwork of from soft games despite being a casual.
Funny how people complain about the difficulty.. figuring out how to complete side quests and locating these characters is insane
@LifeGirl the only word more overused today than "toxic" is "entitled" and your use of it here is overblown, bordering on sarcastic. Nobody is protesting FromSoft headquarters over this. It's not entitled to want to be able to enjoy a game that everyone around you seems to be enjoying.
My biggest gripe is not difficulty. It is lore management. If i have to keep track of quests and info that has been given me in a notebook outside the game or google the area the quest needs to go to or when you find something and then where was the quest giver for this item? My memory is not what it was and i like to play multiple games. If there is a Elden Ring sequel or spiritual successor that would be one of my biggest requests. A lore and quest journal. Just a way to refresh your memories on the lore you have discovered, what you have completed and what you are working on would go a long way. When i play a game it is me and the game. The moment i have to step outside the gameworld because i may or may not know where to go pulls me away. No problem with the difficulty i just want to stay connected to the experience 🥰
@matekomlosi Maybe pay attention to what the characters are saying, the environment, and item descriptions and you'll realize that there is a story?
@MBalz_EsHari My thoughts exactly 🤓
I haven't played a single game of their in my life, but this sounds like a complete opposite of "gaming is for everyone". If I decide to buy a game and I can't for whatever reason play it because it's just too hard, then my money is wasted just because Devs refuse to make it accessible for everyone despite their skill.
Besides, not everyone wants to sweat try hard to beat the games.
Only game I ever remember to actually being worth to play all the way on god of war difficulty is actual 2018 god of war. That walkyrie boss was a bitch.
Fromsoft games get lauded as "hard" and Fromsoft gets placed on this pedistal. In reality most From soft games are simply broken like games were broken in the arcade/NES days and fans of the sadism somehow embrace this as a feature, and From gets their egos inflated.
The problem Elden Ring is facing is that by sales it "broke into the mainstream", primarily on hype/marketing alone, but they still are committed to making a niche game for masochists normal people don't actually want to play. They need to choose, to keep these high sales as a top seller to the masses, they need to make a game the masses can enjoy. If they want their ultra-niche genre, they have to be ready to give back a lot of the sales the hype bought them and go back to being a niche studio that has mediocre sales as if everything were Armored Core. Then the masochistic difficulty will be avoiding getting bought out as they become a failing studio.
They mostly boxed themselves into a corner. The idea of Souls originally sold reasonably well among a hardcore niche, and as they've gone they've built this following. If they change that now, that niche will revolt and they'll lose their base. If they keep pandering to that base, their success of Elden Ring will be a forgotten blip as most people learn to avoid their games as purely meant for a small niche.
If they really wanted to double down on that they'd put clear warnings in the game description that it's not a game for most people, only for a select personality type. Without doing that they're trying to sell, on purpose, to a large market they know for certain will not enjoy, and is in fact, not intended to enjoy their game. It almost becomes deceptive advertising. it's fine if that's what they want to make, but the onus is also on them to tell perspective customers what they're selling and not try to make money from the very people they'll boldly tell isn't meant to like their game.
Smart business would probably be to just leave Soulsborne behind and move onto something new where they can embrace a wider market without risking a revolt of their fans. It's not like the Soulsborne genre isn't over-saturated at this point so that Fromsoft seems like an also-ran anyway. Leave the toxic, self-sales-limiting genre to the 100 Chinese clones now on sale. Start something new only From can do.
that's why you play on pc , because you adjust the difficulty with mods. i found a sweet spot that made the game more enjoyable for me , but it doesn't make me in god mode and can still die ( a decent amount). but at the same time i'm not stuck on a boss for 3 hours that i don't have. the game is still enjoyable , i know thats not for every one , but people should play the game as they want.
@LifeGirl couldn't agree more, to me, it is as simple as that. Plus Elden Ring has spirit summons, a fact that's often missing from the discourse. Some people refuse to use them, THEN complain about bosses. Some sort of weird gamer ego that's developed over the course of Souls history.
All the people complaining about the difficulty are the same who are panic rolling everywhere to get one shoted. It's all about learning the game mechanics and building muscle memory. It's no more complex than Street Fighter. I have beaten Rellana last night after 10 attempts to find her weakness. My son has just beaten Dancing Lion in 5 attempts. Seeing people on social media yelling that the game is impossible is probably part of the entertainment.
I'm all for the developers creative vision to be realized in the way they see fit. That's art. It's not going to cater to everyone and that's ok. While I understand the need for accessibility - I personally love the art style and atmosphere of From Software games but after trying Bloodborne and Elden Ring several times, I simply realized they weren't for me - we all have access to YouTube and Twitch where we can watch a playthrough with no commentary. I think this is the next best thing for these scenarios and also a great way to 'try before you buy' or revisit great games you may no longer own or currently have downloaded.
Something a lot of these comments are seemingly flat out ignoring is the fact that a game is more than just its gameplay. Elden Ring isn't JUST difficult fights, it's a massive fantastical world to explore, with characters to interact with and stories to not only experience, but to be changed as you see fit. George R. R. Martin assisted with the creation of Elden Ring's world, which I'm sure got a lot of Game of Thrones fans interested in buying them game, and probably not for the gameplay, but in order to dive into a new, complex fantasy world. Many then were driven away from it by its difficulty, and couldn't experience the narrative and exploration they wanted too.
Now, that isn't FromSoftware's fault; if they want their game to be tough, it's going to be tough. However, fans that claim that the people who just want to experience the game in a way they can enjoy are "entitled", ironically, sound like stuck up gate keepers. It would be the easiest thing in the world to just make a selectable mode at the start of the game called "Story" or "Casual" mode, where the player character just can't die outside of scripted events, and can't access all the invader multiplayer stuff. Suddenly, SO many more people can experience the intricate world that Miyazaki and everyone at FromSoftware have spent years to create, at next to zero effort.
It's not a problem or a disgrace that people just want to play the games they purchased how they want to play them, and if it's super easy to accommodate, then why not? It seems like a lot of other commenters have some sort of stuck up pride about the games being so hard, but like, why? Are you really THAT butt hurt over the idea of someone's grandparents that grew up reading The Lord of the Rings getting the chance to see Alexander's, Ranni's, or Millicent's stories to completion themselves, or to wander the lands between and take in the feeling of a fantasy adventure like they'd always wanted to?
It may be impossible to make everyone happy, but we could at least avoid actively excluding people that just want to experience something we love in a way they can.
From's games are very challenging in the context of today's gamescape, but this is partly due to a revolution of dumbing-down that has been taking place over the last 2 decades to make games more accessible for the masses. If I go back to play any NES and SNES era games, I'm dying just as much as in soulsbornes, and often without a save system.
But more casual players want to jump on the FromSoftware bandwagon for some very obvious and public reasons, NOT including difficulty, such as:
The high level of challenge is definitely a barrier to enjoying this stuff. I love From’s games, and frankly respect Miyazaki’s vision of the game not being for everyone, but given the state of the bandwagon, casual gamers will continue griping until there’s an easy mode… 🤷🏻♂️
The DLC is just plain mid, just finished by the way.
It's a huge world with absolutely no reason and nothing to do besides run across with your horse. It doubles down on the issues of late game Elden Ring. The bosses ARE NOT GOOD, that's besides the fact that the camera works against you and makes bosses harder than it has any reason to be. Exploration is just bad, loot is certainly not good and nothing you find is rewarding at all.
I feel the DLC has issues of pacing in terms of "how to play it", but the problem is that From Software is kinda forcing you in a way mostly because rune level is (kinda) irrelevant, since your build should already be done by the time you hit the DLC, but also because the progression in the DLC is tied to an item that, unless you are the god of Elden Ring, you WILL need. But that also means that they are obviously scattered all over the world and if you find a few in X area, would you try to finish the boss of that area or go to another to find more of those?.
I feel FS forces you into the second option, and it means I'm running around in a mostly empty world searching for an item that i don't know exactly how to find to make the game difficulty tolerable, because, again, power creeping is a big issue in Elden Ring. Also, unlike BOTW, you can't see the items from anywhere, like shrines.
The game just creeps in terms of numbers so you need to combo even more, and SOTE just double downs on it and it feels wrong. It's like if FS spend the entire budget in creating the world and forgot to do anything with it.
Did i had fun? I guess i did? At some point it just felt like i was going through the motions and wanted it to end.
@ear_wig they've made souls games for many years now and never once made an easy mode, no matter how much people whine and moan. So I don't expect elden ring to get it, I mean Elden Ring is already very accessible in comparison, still some challenge, I at least found definitely the easiest
I wish Hello Kitty Island Adventure had a hardcore mode, but I guess we can’t have it all.
This is the reason why I wished the expansion had trophies, then we could see what percentage of players are actually beating these bosses.
Some people say that they don't have time to invest in a game like Elden Ring to master it. I would say that I don't have time to invest in 90% of games that are treating me like an idiot. From Software is one of the unique company that is respecting their customers.
It's an unfortunately abelist point of view. Refusing to acknowledge that people with disabilities and long-time gamers who's reaction times are slowing due to age might need tweak the game a little for their enjoyment really doesn't look too good in 2024.
Yes, of course Miyazaki is right and that's part of why the games he is involved with tend to be so good, and so challenging. If they all handed a win to you, or hand held you through every little step, it'd be awful because plenty of games already do that to be more inclusive/cater better to casuals or time poor people who might have forgotten the controls between plays as they're so busy.
The other thing I like about From games is often most if not all of the cutscenes are skippable, so upon repeated plays you're not having to hear the same lines over and over. I wish more games were like that, and I also wish they were more sparse with their lore because From at pretty decent at that too - like the gameplay, if you want to piece all the elements together and make sense of it, you have to work for it.
Basically From games tend to respect the intelligence and skill of the player, so people who love those games really love them, and people who don't gel with them tend to bounce off hard. Better than than being a game everyone thinks is average and kinda bland, I feel.
Oh and for the record, if you have a jailbroken PS4 or PS5 you can introduce an easy mode to the game with cheats, as you can patch game memory addresses not dissimilar to the Action Replay method from generations past. I tried Bloodborne this way (and with the 60FPS patch too, thanks Lance) and yep although it is amusing and almost hysterical to be able to cheese your way through early stuff like the Father Gascoigne fight (you can be a damage sponge while dishing out crazy hits with a maxed out character) it gets old because the challenge dies even though your hunter now doesn't.
@Airsqueeble Difference being, if you added a hard mode to easy games nobody would complain.
You always see one particular bad faith argument when Souls difficulty comes up.
The idea of "I don't have time for hard games" coupled with this weird attitude that only masochistic shuts-in do. That the person making the complaint, "have a real life and friends and other things to do". That they "go outside".
Look. You're not some special edge case. You're describing most people who play these games. We all have lives beyond enjoying Elden Ring.
Here's the thing though, people complain about not "having time". What does that mean? Playing a videogame is a fundamentally a frivolous use of time that we're lucky to get to spend on a hobby. If you play games at all then you have some amount "of time". Difficult games don't have some extra time tax to them. Elden Ring being easier wouldn't magically let you play it without spending time playing it. That's silly.
Take me. My first run of Elden Ring took something like 150 hours to finish. It took me about nine months to finish the game. So technically I could have done that playing less then an hour a day across that duration and still had plenty of days where I didn't touch the game.
It didn't take me that long because it was hard. It took that long because I have other stuff to do. A full time job. People in my life. Other hobbies and interests. Other games. A simple desire to put Elden Ring down now and then so that I don't burn out on it or so I could prolong the experience. I too like to "go outside".
Time is not an issue for playing a game. Time is infinite. No one is asking you to beat a videogame quickly.
You do not need to speedrun a game to play a game.
Games don't have a best before date period.
No what we're talking about really is the amount of time people are willing to put into a game, the "Why?" each person is choosing to play the game in the first place.
For example; the person who is only playing because they want to participate in the cultural zeitgeist and then need to quickly move onto the next thing as it becomes relevant. This person IS on a time limit. A self imposed time limit but if the game is to hard for them then they don't get to participate because the tide will quickly turn and next month there will be a new thing they "have to play".
But if you actually just want to play the game for its own sake you have an infinite amount of time to do so.
I also see another common issue where people just psyche themselves out. They see discourse online and for some reason think they too need some encyclopedic knowledge of the game systems, of stat point allocation efficiency, to be able to no hit bosses and parry crazy attacks. So knowing they're "not that good" they get intimidated and never even try.
So you don't need to beat games quickly. You also don't need to "be good" at them.
No one is grading you on these things.
So many of us would not describe ourselves as "good at games" yet love and have beaten Fromsofts titles.
It's also ok to just not like a game. I don't know why this is so hard for so many people.
People make games and sometimes you won't enjoy playing them. Ok. You don't have to. There's literally too many games for someone to ever come close to playing all of them. So play something you do enjoy instead. Seems obvious.
Stop trying to force yourself to play something you don't enjoy just because people on the internet are talking about it.
I really want to get into Dark Souls. The world looks amazing and I love that it’s handcrafted and winds back on itself. I haven’t got around yet to playing it (even though I own it) because I know I need to invest time in it. I don’t mind the difficulty if I’m able to eventually overcome it, I love levels on platform games where you have to repeat them hundreds of times to complete them for example.
That said, as my gaming time is so limited these days, I don’t want to spend days/weeks learning the ropes. Does anyone know of a guide to Dark Souls that will quickly get me going, but won’t ruin the experience?
I agree a developer should be able to make the game they want. However, the discussion gets a little murkier when you consider that a person may have spent $70 for the game and doesn't find out that they're incapable of beating it until they are past the refund period of the game.
I platinumed Bloodborne and Sekiro, and yet I firmly believe Souls games should absolutely have "last resort" in-game difficulty options. Disable trophies and online play when activated. If a person wants to trivialize the experience to see the single player content and play out the story, why shouldn't they be able to? Are they ruining the game for themselves, maybe, but who cares, it does not affect other players at all. There is no rational argument against this except the developers not wanting to spend whatever time it would take to implement such options. However, literally all that you'd need to make most Souls games "easy" is just a simple global damage reduction percentage (i.e. being able to set enemies to do XX% less damage to the player) and I can't imagine that would be that difficult to implement.
@Platinum-Bucket I do agree with this well articulated opinion, but it makes my comment above it look like a cop out. Which I suppose is true. As a fantasy fan I'd love to experience less punishing versions of From games but hey.
@Uromastryx Yeah no easy mode in sight, they’ll be yelling into the void. I hope they don’t nerf the expansion bc of the review bombing 🙄
@Llamageddon True, my point/joke was that certain games, movies or etc are aimed at certain people. Sometimes it can be okay if something isn’t for you,
Imo FromSoftware games are more tedious than difficult.
Putting a knowledge check onto every encounter by throwing random BS at you doesn't make a game more challenging, just more time consuming.
@Nepp67 Look, if they tell this already murky story through a few characters scattered across a huge world, and it's like you need pliers to pull the story out of them, that's not really storytelling. I mean, it might be for some, but not for me. The game is definitely more focused on the combat and gameplay; the story is pretty much an afterthought.
I git to keep my money. 😉
Why do people whine about the difficulty of a game? "It's too easy" or "It's rigged for you to lose", "It's too difficult and unfair".
Anyone born before at least 1995 know the true pain of difficult games! You're all a bunch of complainers afraid of a challenge.
I for one enjoyed Shadow of the Erdtree and happily finished it about an hour ago.
@matekomlosi I hate to tell you this, but there is more than one way to tell a story. That's how it is and the story isn't an afterthought. You just don't prefer it because it isn't spoonfed to you.
This debate is tired and old. Fromsoft got to this point and these sales numbers by finding a gap in the market and honing the mechanics, playstyle and difficulty to the point of great success.
As has been stated many times, there are multiple ways to make the games 'easy' by summoning other players, over levelling, discovering a bosses weakness (which is the main puzzle element of the games similar to mega man) or even cheesing the game. If people want to breeze through soulsborne games all they have to do is read guides or watch videos on how to do it. They main challenge/mechanic is working out how to make the games easier.
Miyazaki-sensei telling everyone how it is like a real boss among bosses.
Respect.🔥
Easy mode in Souls formula:
1. Souls, Runes, etc are infinite, so just lvl up and do some grinding at the beginning;
2. Find you favourite weapon and play Style;
3. Read stuff about the game, caracter class creation, and see some play footage;
4. Use online Coop (the easy mode) so others can help you;
5. Use online Coop so you can learn the dungeons and the attack patterns of bosses before you try them;
6. Die, Die, Die - it's part of the experience, so Try, try, try
At the end you will end up with an OP caracter <3
Aside from difficulty, the reason I'm not into the soulslike games is dark and gloomy aesthetic and lack of proper storylines
@kailun gaming has never been about being inclusive. It started as a niche thing among the boys. In life not everyone has to be included for a hobbies and subsets within a particular hobby. Plenty of other accessible games that are mainstream.
Play it on PC. There already exists an easy mode mod AFAIK.
@LifeGirl @mariomaster96
I sort of agree in principal.
Im not the best at games, but have completed everything in this game (not the dlc yet as i still have concerns about performance), including melenia on about try 30 (no guide says it but she HATES Ancient death rancor), and also Demon Souls, DS3, Lies of P (mostly pre nerf), Nioh 2, including all dlc for these games where available and at least to NG+1 for all.
However, I do sort of see the issue here is that they have always marketed elden ring as more mainstream, then suddenly (and without warning that I recall) dialled up the difficulty much more for the dlc than normal (from what I read).
Even then, why should someone just expect such a jump in difficulty in dlc unless they have played a previous From software dlc.
The cant really have it both ways - either they are niche or mainstream (offering a difficulty slider), not both.
@Sweetz
"literally all that you'd need to make most Souls games "easy" is just a simple global damage reduction percentage"
Funnily enough, i was explaining this to someone yesterday as an easy fix for this problem (it should of course be calculated after all defence and other damage reductions have been applied, but I think this is what you meant anyway).
They could even have it as a slider, to allow people to adjust to their capability, including increasing damage taken as an option, and only pop trophys if no reduction (or increased damage) was selected!
I don't think the discourse about shadow is just difficulty in reality.
It's just really poorly balanced. Movesets, the cheap roll catch boss combos, etc. They sometimes feel bs sure but the problem with Erdtree is the damage output and health pool inflation. It's kind of a sad and cheap way to make things More "difficult."
Even more so when Miyazaki is gloating about it like it's some grandiose strategy to push players to the brink, when in reality you just increased the damage and health sliders and pasted copied old animations on new boss character Models. It's a little lazy, arrogant and tone deaf rather than artistic or developmental expression.
Love me this genre, played nearly all of them, but I can totally understand people's frustration with this dlc, despite still enjoying it Myself.
FromSoftware games are hard because the controls are rubbish and the gameplay is unrelenting. It's great that people enjoy them but they aren't that good, in my opinion.
Completely agree. Difficultly options and easy mode are for gamers too lazy to play the game as intended. There are plenty of other games to play if you want your hand held.
@MattBoothDev controls aren’t even close to rubbish. Sounds like you are bad at them.
@Arnna I knew someone would come along with a boneheaded comment like that.
The controls are rubbish, slow and clunky, in my opinion. You don't need to be personally offended that someone else has a different take.
@MattBoothDev compared to what? I’m not offended. It takes more than that to offend me.
What equivalent game in the the same genre has better controls? “In your opinion” of course…
@Arnna pretty much most third person games have a better control scheme, in my opinion.
Like I originally said, it's great that people enjoy their games so much, but they're not for me. I don't enjoy being frustrated and the games seem designed to frustrate.
@MattBoothDev "FromSoftware games are hard because the controls are rubbish, slow, and clunky."
I'm not yet played Elden Ring but i never feel the control are rubbish, slow, and clunky in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and Sekiro and i beat all of them just fine. Sekiro even has faster and smoother control to allowed more mobility since the players controlling a ninja.
Unless i equiped very heavy armor, weapons, and acc that almost or pass my Equip Load limits then i became slower and clunkier to moves. I bet From Soft still used this mechanic for Elden Ring.
That's a great explanation. This sure doesn't seem to affect sales at all either so good.
Personally, I prefer games with adjustable difficulty. And I prefer games that I feel I can leave and come back to, without being completely lost and having to start over. Elden Ring doesn't seem to be either of those things.
So, they just won't get my money, and I just won't play it. Oh, some day I may give it a shot, if it's free or nearly free, but I might not. And that's okay - clearly they're not missing my money, and I have enough things to play I'll be fine without Elden Ring. We call that a win-win.
I’m utterly useless at From games. Have finished DS1, 2, 3, Bloodborne and Elden Ring albeit by having to plough many, many hours in while relying heavily on summoning help. All the DLCs have beaten me. Erdtree is owning me at the moment. These games can frustrate me at times but the beauty of the worlds and the mystery of the locations keep bringing me back for more beautiful pain. A stunning series of games.
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