A huge part of the GTA experience is its banging radio soundtracks, and we wouldn’t expect anticipated sequel GTA 6 to be any different. In fact, it sounds like Rockstar is slowly starting to assemble the audio you’ll be listening to while you explore Vice City next year – but not everyone is impressed by the cash the company is committing.
Martyn Ware of Sheffield-based 80s synthpop band Heaven 17 revealed on social media this week that he was offered $7,500 for the rights to hit Temptation, which he promptly refused. Presumably this $7,500 will be offered to all three original writers of the song, although that’s not immediately clear.
“I was recently contacted by my publishers on behalf of Rockstar regarding the possibility of using Temptation on the new GTA 6,” he wrote on X (or Twitter). “Naturally excited about the immense wealth that was about to head my way, I scrolled to the bottom of the email. It was $7,500 – for a buyout of any future royalties from the game – forever.”
He went on to point to the enormous sales of the GTA franchise overall, helping to illustrate why he feels this offer is an insult. From our perspective, getting your music in a game like GTA 6 would effectively guarantee future royalties from an entire new generation – especially with a song as undeniably catchy as Temptation.
Ware, to his credit, does acknowledge this: “Ah, but think of the exposure,” he continued. “Go f*ck yourself. I’ve worked in artist rights advocacy for 20 years [and] I know the game. This is iniquitous.”
In the UK specifically, Temptation still gets air time on the radio today, having topped the charts in 1983.
It’s possible this may just be an initial offer from Rockstar, which it’ll increase in future negotiations. However, if you consider that GTA 5 had around 500 songs in it, we imagine there has to be a cap to how much it can realistically spend on licensed music – even when the series has brought in billions over the years.
[source x.com, via resetera.com]
Comments 95
You've got to make me an offer
That cannot be ignored
The last paragraph Sammy wrote especially rings true. While the frustration is understandable, it’s likely unrealistic to not place a cap on this kind of spending and licensing budget.
If Rockstar gave me free lifetime Subway sandwiches in exchange of something that I made being used in GTA, I would be dancing around like a little leprechaun who doesn't want some random children taking his marshmallow cereal.
But that's just me.
7.5k for a what is likely to be the highest grossing piece of entertainment ever in human history is a joke
@HotGoomba I have no witty reply, this just made me laugh.
@Deoxyr1bose Agreed. Others are acting like he should be grateful just to be in GTA. Still a legendary song — $7500 is chump change. And it's not like Temptations needs more exposure for relevance in the first place.
Like stated in the article - it's basically free exposure to a whole generation of people that never heard the song.
How many times do we see an 80s song/artist resurging when a song is used on a Netflix show?
I understand the optics of it, but realistically they're offering the artist insane reach and publicity which has an inherent value on its own. So it's not really 7500, it's considerably more
Love Martyn, his voice is super important and he always tries to stand up for artists. The problem with this is that Heaven 17 don’t need exposure from a video game, they’re an 80s band with a large audience and so the only benefit they can get from this sort of deal is a monetary one - especially when royalties are entirely under threat. I sat down with my uncle when he got his royalties letter in a few years back and it’s dealing in fractions of pennies from Spotify plays, radio plays are still worth so much more. Temptation is a huge song but from what I gather, Martyn is more saying that all of the artists deserve at least royalties considering the obvious billions this game will make. The games would not be what they are without the soundtracks after all.
I remember this song being used in KFC commercials here in the UK in the early 2000s
@nessisonett isn't it just over 5k in proper money , bit of a piss take to be sure
Current Rockstar is so ass
@Silbermetallic I disagree sir, surely that's erasure.
@AndroidBango That's brilliant - hahahaha!
Wow 7,5k for THAT song (and without release/time constraint) would be generous and involved a lot of good will from the band to support an indie movie/game.
But GTA 6 … as much as I like to have the song there. I side with the band. That is an insult.
I agree that this is an insult, but I question why you would make this public knowledge on social media, because surely he must be conscious of comments coming his way. He is doing it to either gain awareness of this kind of practice, throw Rockstar under the bus, or increase the amount he is offered.
I think Rockstar have also picked up on a well know UK 80s character
Del Boy.
Removed - inappropriate
@Shalooda I’m shocked that there’s people defending this. Even in the 80s being bought out of potential royalties for basically 5 grand would be utter insanity.
For reference, Kenny Loggins said that Danger Zone being in Top GUN paid for all his kids’ college tuition alone.
@jrt87
You know what I agree with you on that.
When I played GTA 5 I thought yeah it’s good but nothing that special.
I felt the character and especially vehicle control was poor and also sometimes the hide and shoot mechanics.
It’s definitely not up there with Sony Studios very best work.
@PuppetMaster well if a billion dollar company offers you pennies for something you created, I feel his reaction was rather mild, it's quite insulting to say the least
I don't really know how reasonable or unreasonable that offer is, but his response just seems so unprofessional.
@OldGamer999 petit pois...petit pois
I had forgot all about this song! A classic. It could totally give him his "Running up that Hill" moment Kate use got after Stranger Things 4. I would take the publicity, but would want a bit more money.
@jrt87
Lmao it's always so telling when people discredit themselves by saying the pinnacle of a medium is bad... It's so laughable.
The best game technically, in writing, immersion, in details, gameplay, etc. is still RDR2. No PS5 game can hold a candle to it.
No openworld game besides Rockstar's has topped the PS3 game GTA IV. That is FOUR! It's insane how many mediocre openworld games we get TIME AND AGAIN and how people damage control them while hating on Rockstar. What a joke, honestly.
I don't see the problem. They offered $7500 and he said no. They're no more obliged to offer him what he thinks it's worth than he is obliged to take what they offered. Offer made and rejected, move on.
Offer $7500 to David Van Day for 'O L'Amour'. He's skint, he'll take it.
@Silbermetallic nah, Pet Shop Boys and New Order by a country mile, and then Electronic when they joined forces.
That is a bit of a low ball offer considering it's freaking GTA6. This isn't a small start-up studio here.
@crimsontadpoles totally agree.
@Shalooda 7500 bones for an old song that isn't an ultimate mega hit like Billy Jean, Beat It, etc etc and the band isn't active anymore doesn't sounds like a bad initial offer to me.
I mean, it's a free advertising with GTA 6. Think about the side effect with millions of new people hearing the song when they're playing GTA 6 and then buy the band album if they like the song. That definitely will generate plenty of money.
And R* can pick other band if they want and pay less. There's no shortlist of Synth-pop band from the 80's.
That's why i said at least negotiate first, maybe R* can offer more with some bonus. But the guy choose his pride and rudely slammed the door.
@OldGamer99 Mangetout!
Just seen the reply from the devs...'no, f*ck you, we'll use AI.'
@PuppetMaster I find it baffling that you'd have listened to all those bands and somehow Heaven 17 - who are very much contempoaries and bigger than some that you've mentioned - passed you by.
And "Temptation" has been featured on more 80s compilations than I can count. This dude is right to call R* out on their *****.
>From our perspective, getting your music in a game like GTA 6 would effectively guarantee future royalties from an entire new generation – especially with a song as undeniably catchy as Temptation.
>Ware, to his credit, does acknowledge this: “Ah, but think of the exposure,” he continued. “Go f*ck yourself. I’ve worked in artist rights advocacy for 20 years [and] I know the game. This is iniquitous.”
He's not acknowledging it in a good way here...
The song is a classic and does not need more exposure. I bet the group make more than this from royalties every time its used in something anyway. I'm glad he stood his ground.
I'm just glad that there will be a classic pop station in GTA6. Vice City and GTA5's Non Stop Pop FM have been on repeat for a decade at this point. Absolute bangers.
I have no idea what's appropriate in this situation but maybe make a counter offer instead of whining on social media? This works both ways, what do you think it's worth?
@Savage_Joe lol did you read the article?? They won't get royalties from the GAME. which they won't get anyways if they're not in it.
They don't lose any rights to their songs.
And if being in the game doesn't cause their song to get a resurgence, so what, they got a free 7500$ for doing nothing.
@MrPeanutbutterz he's being a total drama queen claiming it's iniquitous.
Banger of a song, pay up rockstar!
Then use it on the next trailer.
They need a darkwave channel for when cruising around in the hearse. Clan of Xymox n stuff
@MrPeanutbutterz "who are very much contempoaries and bigger than some that you've mentioned"
Bigger than some band that i mention but i still don't remember anything about this band or their song. So i guess those bands are still bigger than this band, at least for me.
@Stragen8 Ikr, free 7500 for doing nothing. R* doesn't even ask them to re-recording the song.
@riceNpea the guy created the human league and heaven 17 and God knows how many other pies he has his creative fingers in..the guy is a legend and rockstar just insulted him with that offer..
Some comments are funny and ignorant, even on Twitter/X calling them a tiny, tiny band ... blablabla exposure ... and you'll regret not taking the $7500 ... WTH? Who are those people? They could at least try to use Google ...
Good music is a big reason what makes GTA games stand out!
@PuppetMaster Yeah I'm just bemused by it. It's like being into classic Metallica (who I assume you are going off your tag), Megadeth, Anthrax, then not knowing who Slayer are lol.
@Northern_munkey British Electric Foundation too.
@MrPeanutbutterz indeed..there is not enough space or time to cover everything he's involved in or has been. But at least you acknowledge his incredible influence and can understand his response regardless of how blunt it was..it left nothing open to interpretation.
@Northern_munkey I don't see it as an insult, it's an opening offer. The fella could negotiate rather than go well over the top, swear and then claim it's wicked.
But I totally appreciate what you said, he is a very talented man. The 80s is my teenage. I just think he could've been a lot classier about this and kept the moral high ground. His response was disappointing.
@MrPeanutbutterz I do know Slayer but i'm not sure if this band can be compare with Slayer in terms popularity. The thing is there's plenty of Synth-pop band in the 80's that didn't reach my country. I don't remember that i see any Heaven 17 album on my local music store or my local radio played Temptation or any of their song. Heck, back then my local tv has MTv but i only remembered they played a lot of the bands i mention especially Duran Duran, Pet Shop Boys, and Depeche Mode.
Anyway...i just check that one of Heaven 17 song called "Penthouse and Pavement" was included in GTA Vice City Stories (i never play this game though). So this is not the first time they worked together with R*, which mean what R* offered could be in line with what they gave the band back in 2006...
Considering how many songs Rockstar need for this game, I'm genuinely curious about what people think would be a more reasonable offer?
Google says there were 441 songs in GTA 5. Let's assume this game is bigger and they go for 500 songs. Multiply that by 7500 and you've got $3.75m as an assumed total music budget.
In that context, I reckon Rockstar could afford to quadruple the offer for every song, bringing the fee to $30k and total budget to $15m and they'd STILL make their money back within 2 literal minutes of the release.
$30k is probably still gonna piss artists off though. So what's a reasonable solution?
@riceNpea yeah he could have for sure but he didn't...he chose the "rock star" response and I quite like the irony..
@PuppetMaster slayer are infinitely more popular than heaven 17. Slayer are dark Gods amongst us...
@Atreus97 A reasonable solution is royalties. Literally just royalties. They’re designed that way for a reason, the more copies sold, the more money goes out to artists. It’s their only way to have any financial security later in life. Streaming is already killing this, now we have chancers like Rockstar conning musicians.
@Northern_munkey ha! Good point that I didn't consider 😄👍
As a creative of any kind one of the most irritating things to hear from someone is “But think of the exposure!” Absolute bull***t. Most artists spend their entire lives getting screwed over, even many who ‘make it’, so he’s 100% right in refusing such a terrible offer for the use of such a famous song. It’s an insult. If Rockstar’s budget can’t stretch to a respectable offer they shouldn’t have approached them in the first place.
@Stragen8
Another way to look at this is product placement. That is for a fee charged to an artist that artist's song will be on an in-game radio play list or otherwise featured in the game. So here with GTAVI it could then be pay R☆ $7,500 to use your song and not R☆ will pay $7,500 to use your song.
@Atreus97 I have no idea what would be classed as reasonable. My wife is an artist and we have this discussion about what she should be charging for her commissions (I always think she charges less than she should.) So my point is that the artist has to be willing to accept something they deem reasonable. Sometimes you can't put a price on something you've created especially when it's as iconic as the song in question. I wish I was in a position to have that conundrum.
@Atreus97 I think $7500 for a single song is a reasonable place to start negotiations. 5,000 to 50 grand I'd say is the price range for a well known, decades old track.
There's plenty to choose from, it's not like Rockstar need this song in the game, so he's let his pride get in the way of business.
If this music is what they are looking for to put on gta 6 i cant imagine what more they will put. Jesus f... we are f..tup. im starting be preocu....
When miami vice came to blu ray, the company that released the blu rays had to pay 50.000 dollars to each artist .There was over 150 songs in the series.Rockstar paid that much for each song in vice city back in 2002.They are nuts to offer 7500,lol.
Whatever your comment on this is, remember:
Rockstar Games is a company, and companies aren't your friends.
Well at let he’s getting 0.0001p from me as I’m streaming Temptation on Apple Music whilst reading the article!
There's so many obscure bands that I've gotten into because I heard their songs in GTA. Love those radio stations.
Every day that goes by, I find I despise 2K more and more. I'm starting to like Kotick in comparison. I almost added Pitchford to that, and then I remembered he works for 2k now, so, I rest my case.
@AndroidBango So let's head for home now, everything I have is yours oh...
@nessisonett I expect Freddie Flintoff would have preferred they spent the money on safety precautions
Every real musician gets the offer of pay in exposure when they start. Every. Single. One of us. Quite troubling it's got to the point that more successful artists are starting to get these kind of offers again.
I got tired of "exposure pay" a long time ago and moved on to other ways to make money from music.
You have to weigh it up... Is it worth your time to give an already successful song over indefinitely to this company for 4 months minimum wage? Probably not!
@PuppetMaster well the song was in vice city stories so I'm presuming they got paid more 20 years by comparison, I agree it's good exposure but 5k cmon that's ridiculous.
Don't think the fee is necessarily an insult, it's 1 song likely from hundreds of them which when combined makes up a very small part of the game, anybody expecting fortunes for such a tiny contribution to the game is deluded. If they granted royalties from the games future income to every miniscule contribution. They wouldn't make a penny.
Fact is they would be getting that money for something they did 30 years ago and doing absolutely nothing else. The exposure they'd go would see money come in for them from elsewhere.
They clearly have no issue with selling the rights to their song to be included, they just want to milk the cash cow for all they possibly can.
It's a great song, that would fit vice city perfectly, that's pptentially even a trailer worthy song but gta won't suffer a single iota from not having that song in the game, they'll simply get another one, and the owners of that will get the windfall, meanwhile, these lose out on a decent wedge and a monumental publicity boost.
@Volestrangler Hahahaha oh god what a typo, I’ll change it immediately
Never heard of the song, but will go give a listen now.
If H17 original is too soft try Cradle of Filth's cover version ...
@LowDefAl you are the only one that's mentioned this deal is a one off payment. That means the artist gets nothing in the future..everything goes to rockstar games. Temptation is the biggest hit the group had and is still used today. Its an anthem of the 80's and rockstar wants the artist to sign away his defining moment in music history for £7500? He's right to tell them to jog on..
@Bluemoon2008 there is no windfall..its a one off payment..
Who said wealth gives power and influence to those who possess it?
Money talks?
@nessisonett
Exactly!
$7500 - for a buyout of any future royalties from the game - forever…" is insulting indeed!
They don't need the exposure either but got it already by exposing Rockstar!
And to think, a lot of people seem to think this is normal behavior and seeing this as a fit, smh!
After a quick Google scan, Spotify generally pays $0.003 - 0.005 per play (on average) supposedly.
So therefore to make the $7,500 offered, the "exposure" will need to generate at least 2.5 million extra plays on streaming services at the lowest payment level.
The song has around 26.2 million plays there alone.
Assuming GTA 6 does similar figures to the alleged 200 million sold according to Take Two, then that same exposure would be worth 600K.
I'm not saying Martin can or should get that amount, but I can understand why he is p***ed off at the exceptionally low-ball offer for a song that has lasting appeal and is relatively well-known.
'You've got to make me an o-o-offer, that cannot be ignored'
Rockstar I can bang some pots and pans pretty well, if you still need someone. I'll settle for 7.5k for my talents.
The public response seems unreasonable and attention seeking regardless of how good or bad the monetary value of the offer is.
@Northern_munkey
For gta yeah, but the exposure it gives them to bery likely in excess of a hundred million people, many of whom weren't around in the 80's presents many additional financial opportunities for them.
Totally agree with Martin !!
So, why should a third party random schmuck get any royalties when the devs working their asses off aren't getting any?
This is the absurd part to me.
@Deoxyr1bose well assuming they at least maintain the status quo & license a minimum of 500 songs, that’s $3,500,000 on radio station music alone. Not to mention paying the multiple radio DJs & writers just for this minor part of the game.
Don’t forget there is 8 years of dev , writers, artists salaries to pay for (excluding any more delays), the r&d &, other licenses, marketing etc. Sure, it may go on to break records in the future, but there’s a huge cost upfront, along with the risk the publisher will take.
They’re not being played on Spotify or a music service. It’s a subset of a subset of an element in a very large game
@CielloArc I was a little bummed out I hadn't seen this take yet.
We see these VA, musicians, ya know adding a little bit to these games being upset over there relatively small part of the whole pie and needing royalties....
Meanwhile the devs that spent 6 years@50-60hr weeks....... what about their royalties?
@pukana GTA radio stations are iconic and are a huge part of the game. If they weren't, why are they including around 500 songs, and hiring some of the biggest names in their respective genres to voice the DJs? As a music dork, let me tell you whoever they hire to compile these stations knows their stuff too (instead of just sticking a few vaguely related songs on one station like you find in the majority of other games).
And there's zero risk here for the publisher. GTA6 is basically guaranteed to be the biggest entertainment product to ever exist.
@CallMeDuraSouka Did the devs not collection a handsome wage per week for those six years of work?
Cut the drama. You received an offer that you perceive to be low... just take it or leave it. If you don't, someone else will.
As for exposure, it's completely dependant on how R* plan to use the song within the game. I wonder what Tom Petty's estate received for Love Is A Long Road?... the GTA6 trailer increased its Spotify streams by 36,979%. Not bad for a B-side!
@Shalooda
Defenatly not Erasure. Name says it all….
@Hypoman why? 17 top ten hits 5 no1 albums
@Shalooda
He always sounded like a bad Alison Moyet replacement to me……
@Hypoman yeah ill give you that , excellent voice though , great live , well he was 😂
@Shalooda
😂😂yeah! I really admire Vince until Andy showed up 😂😂
@MrPeanutbutterz agreed, whoever was collating those tunes did know their stuff. But they aren’t a major part of the game & the music is a snapshot of content that has already been produced.
Given the 80’s tracks are so old & most likely aren’t generating the revenue they once did back in the day, having the music on GTA could propel more sales & listens/playlists etc on other platforms.
Maybe for tracks that have been produced & written for the game should get royalties & I do think if a soundtrack is created, everyone should get paid more along with royalties. Maybe newer artists should get more since they haven’t had the opportunity to make much money off their work - controversial opinion probably.
But the game isn’t a music platform. As a user, I’d rather have more tracks than a huge chunk of the budget used up for a small amount of songs.
At the end of the day, an offer was made & the artist doesn’t have to like it or accept it.
It could lead on to a better financial outcome overall, but they’ll never know & we won’t hear it in the game, until it comes out on PC & we can play whatever we want.
It was $7,500 – for a buyout of any future royalties from the game – forever.”
Yeah that's to low I can totally understand that they won't accept that amount.
The wild thing is… just by making that post they likely made 3x the offer in royalties from streaming services as people flocked to hear the song Rockstar missed out on.
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