Sony Promises It Hasn't Abandoned the Famous Franchises from Its Past

Besides the obvious Bloodborne, I would really love to see InFamous make a comeback. And then maybe Resistance & Gravity Rush.

I feel like they’ve been a bit quick to replace LittleBig Planet with AstroBot though. Especially with the complete delisting of LBP3.

"We haven't forgotten, we just decided not to do anything with them because they didn't generate millions of dollars for us. Now have this remastered version of a game that came out 5 years ago."

I won't believe that until I finally see Sly 5 and Jak 4.

Motorstorm collection please.

Unless leverage means more quality ports of older games, remasters of PS3 games stuck on that console, and new games in long-neglected franchises, Mr. Hulst can piss off with his "leverage". Shoving Shadow of the Colossus and Sackboy into that god-awful Secret Level PlayStation episode is not the kind of "leverage" I want to see.

I think right now is the best moment to expect at least remasters/ remakes from famous ps2/ps3 games. A lot of change has happened since the ps3.
-Before Days Gone it was crazy to even think that they would be interested in something that didn't sell crazy numbers at launch, Returnal sold 500k and it was enough to buy the studio and give them new offices.
-After the JapanStudio restructure people said they weren't interested in Asia anymore. Now they are putting a lot of money in Asia specially in China and Korea and both are just getting started in making good single player games.

A lot of the PS franchises stopped in the ps3 and the first half of the ps4 because Sony was literally dying in 2013. Now they are in their best state since the release of the walkman. Nintendo had Metroid on hold for 7 years because they were suffering thanks to the Wii U, the Switch becomes the most sold console and now we get 2 Metroid in 3 years. No new Virtua Fighter for almost 10 years because the fg market was very small, companies like Capcom, ASW and Bandai put the work to make the market bigger, SEGA is in again. KT is growing (thanks in part to sony investment but whatever exclusives are bad right? lol), Ronin is projected to be their most sold owned game (the zelda game isn't theirs) and we get the first new Ninja Gaiden in 10 years.

Once economy gets better companies can take risks ... It also helps that Concord was a disaster, Sony needs cheaper and faster releases, remasters/remakes are that and all the ps4 juggernauts already have a ps5 or pc ver. so the options people"don't like" but they end up buying are almost over.

"IP" is one of those business terms that shouldn't have leaked into the real world as much as it has. I don't play "intellectual property" and I don't watch "content".

I play game series, I like characters, I like stories, I like worlds.

I don't see them going back to fun first games in any serious way unless they make a handheld or some kind of "indie-adjacent" line, like EA Originals.

just remaster the resistance games and release as a collection guaranteed sales minimal effort come on sony you like money do it.

ps3 remasters are they way to go

@ThomasHL This was Herman Hulst using the term, talking about "strengthening their portfolio."

"others felt the game was spitting at them, celebrating series like Ape Escape which will never get another shot in the spotlight"

Those people needs to touch some grass. It's like saying Nintendo is spitting at Mother, Star Fox, Kid Icarus, or F-Zero just because those series doesn't get a new game but the characters was playable / cameos in Smash Bros or Mario Kart.

Anyway. I don't believe any single words that came out from Hermen mouth. So i'm crossing my fingers for a new Ape Escape, Syphon Filter, Wild Arms, Legend of Dragoon, Legaia, Alundra, Sly Cooper, or any Sony dormant IP's under his leadership.

I would love for that to materialize into reviving dormant franchises, but I won't hold my breath.

I especially miss InFamous and Little Big Planet... The last real entries in both series were both essentially rushed out to support the PS4 during its rough launch period of "no games" syndrome. Whereas Second Son turned out mostly good, LBP3 was too ambitious and too undercooked, falling apart at the seams, and left to decay and die after never being properly fixed.

A more focused LBP4 that goes back to the series' roots of 3-lane platforming with just Sackboy would be huge. Especially since all other LBP games had their online killed...

Don't promise. Do it.

Well I certainly hope they haven't forgotten about them. Sony is sitting on a lot of beloved IPs.

Herman Hulst championed for concord, so excuse me if I think his opinions don't fill me with confidence.

I still wonder why Sony chose Hulst for this position, every statement I read or hear from him is unlikable for me. What kind of business culture is there in San Mateo, so that people like Ryan and Hulst can rule as they did/do?

A new Infamous is all I ask for

Stuff like Ape Escape and Parappa would add variety, colour, and humour to an otherwise very limited palette of brown and grey, depressing, story heavy sandboxes that makes up most of the Sony produced lineup.

Unfortunately they’ve only just figured this out four years in and it will take at least a couple of years to produce just remasters of these games. A new game in this style will be 5 years away.

PlayStation had gotten too big and lumbering to react to trends, hence why they couldn’t pivot on the live service front.

Let's be honest, although nostalgists on the Internet are constantly clamouring for reviving these old franchises, the fundamental reason Sony stopped making most of them is that they just didn't sell very well. Take Killzone: a quick google shows that none of the six Killzone titles sold over 3 million copies, most considerably fewer.

And while Astrobot is a really nice 'throwback' title, part of the reason it did so well is the novelty - if we were suddenly to get a glut of platformers again a la the PS1-PS3 days, I'd bet most would sink without a trace.

The truth is, most of the time it's best to leave nostalgia in the past. I'd much rather time and effort went into developing newer games, not just rehashing older games I've already played.

Ahh, the usual empty talk regarding the old IPs…

Everything else aside... I can't wait for Freedom Wars! I hope it does well enough to revive it as a potential franchise!

I also hope it holds up as well as I'm expecting on a big screen!

Outside of Astro Bot, Sony simply don't make games I'm interested in anymore. And until that changes, there's no point in buying any more of their consoles.

@ThomasHL I agree with you there on "IP". I feel exactly the same way when I hear people talk about what media they "consumed" recently. We're not "consumers", we're "customers".

@RainbowGazelle if astrobot the only game you are interested in from sony you are probably a nintendo fan since that is a nintendo type of game..

sony has adapted to the western audience they have given up mostly on there japanese roots and it has worked for sony profit and revenue wise..

@ecurb7 Companies like Activision or Square Enix have warped your view of what is considered a successful game. Selling one or two million copies is successful for most games easily, the exception being the massive "AAA" budget games. As much as I hate the term, I'll use it for ease of communication to make my point; I wouldn't consider most of the games in that series specifically to be considered to be "AAA". Killzone Shadow Fall was only like a 10 hour long game, and while it was by no means cheap in any way, I think a 10 hour story is slightly short even for back then. I think 2.5 million or whatever the number was is pretty respectable.
The fact that people can't stop themselves from comparing these numbers to the ridiculous numbers that games like COD or GTA does is really upsetting tbh. It shouldn't need to be a '100 million units sold' idea for it to be considered successful. I know Sony is perpetuating this too, it at least makes sense from a soulless business perspective. I personally do not like when the profit of games have such influence over the creation of other games. I know there's an air of truth to your post, & sometimes companies have a hard time innovating with new ideas for sequels, but I don't honestly believe Sony would lose money for at least trying to revive an IP that people have been clamoring for. I think at worst they'd break even, but honestly after Astro we might actually start seeing an increase in interest for some of those older games. We'll never know until they actually try, I guess.
I digress. I last heard Guerilla people saying they were burnt out on the series or something & liked the new direction of Horizon much more than what they could do with Killzone.

Infamous! Sly & jak would be my top picks please Sony…

As long as they remain PlayStation Exclusive. Do it.

@yohn777

None of this answers the question of why these dormant franchises went dormant - which is, fundamentally, that they weren't selling!

To pick up on Killzone - this was a AAA, first-party franchise (touted by some as a 'Halo Killer', so of course it was expected to sell well; it wasn't some tiny indie game. No need to throw around ridiculous figures like 100 million units, let's just compare to, as you mention, Horizon. Zero Dawn has sold just over 24 million units - ten times what Killzone games used to sell.

As such, it's no surprise at all that Sony has no real interest in reviving it, and the same goes for many of its other past games. Personally, I used to like games like, say, Sly Cooper, and every so often a remaster - or even a lower budget sequel - might pop out (either by Sony or whoever). But the truth remains that these sorts of games don't sell very well today (unless you're Nintendo), so anyone expecting big revivals (other than remasters) for most old Sony IPs will probably be waiting a very long time.

I think this misses the issue. It's not necessary to keep providing endless sequels to old IPs, we will likely never see another Jak & Daxter again and that's fine.
The problem is Sony is tasked with keeping up the variety of games their old library offered, which they've been struggling with for a long while.

@johnedwin I am these days, yeah. Grew up on Sony, but they only seem interested in making hyper realistic misery simulators and chasing lootbox trends nowadays.

@ecurb7 this is exactly it. A lot of these dormant Sony games excelled within a niche or in an era where less than a million copies sold didn’t kneecap a company.

Action speaks louder than words sony.be about it not talk about.we could have a sly cooper trilogy collection during the ps4 era.a resistance collection trilogy.etc.where is all those games.word up son

@DiggleDog

Sure, but it's 2024, not 2004. If you want smaller games, there are plenty of indies out there - which I often play, too - just don't expect Sony (or Microsoft) to make them themselves.

I'm glad they're not constantly rehashing the same thing like how Nintendo does with Kirby, Pokemon, etc. And they do make the best of the best "epic" style games. But it's time for more variety.

Oh yeah then where's socom,resistance,motorstorm etc..SONY have dropped a bollock with the past 2 gens not publishing any of these titles..

Give us a new Jak or a remake, you cowards

They should be using the dormant IP they have a lot more, its the obvious answer to filling up release schedules now that games take signficantly longer to make. You simply can't have naughty dog or insomniac doing a new jak & daxter or a new resistance though, they've outgrown those games. They are Playstations flagship studios, they have to be doing the next massive mainstream game not a somewhat niche title that won't attract the same audience.

They either expand the sizes of those studios so they can do multiple games at once which can get risky or they think about who else can do it, be that a smaller in house studio, somebody from the outside licensing it or a new studio entirely.

@bestuardo You are naming some bloody awsome games there. I would love to see Legend of Dragoon and ICO and Dark Cloud that was so a lighthearthed fun game with building in it.

Ape Escape remastered trilogy would be great.
Still waiting for Sly 5 before Sly dies of old age on Egypt.
Legend of Dragoon remake would be awesome as well.
Still waiting for a remake of Medievil 2

I think I'm in the minority here, but nostalgia never hits the same when you actually revisit it. Leave it as a memory and let's have something new

Awesome, can't wait to see these old series return then. Looking forward to a new Ape Escape.

The things I'd do for a Resistance trilogy remaster or a new installment....

Talk is cheap, now make it happen lol

My finest gaming experience was the PS3 era.. of course I loved the PS2 era and there are plenty of games that I wish they brought back.
Resistance Fall of Man was the best weapon layout of any game at the time. And the 40 player TDM was always fun and CTF was a thrill.. every gun had its own specialty.

This leads me to Warhawk on PS3.. not a spiritual successor like Starhawk, although the build and battle was quite nice. But Warhawk was the best experience I’ve had for a long time on the PS3.
Huge maps or small maps they were so much fun.. they really left a great game in the past..

And of course Socom. That can be their live service game that they are looking for. Call
Of Duty is beginning to get long in the tooth and their anti cheat is just letting everything in.
Socom can be Sony’s COD answer if they would just put the effort. They have a huge install base of these titles and they are just wanting to play the games that made them fall in love with PlayStation again..

(Looks at Sly's skeleton in Ancient Egypt)

Yeah Herman I'll believe when I see it
a🐍🐍hat

Okay Herman,wake me up when there's a new WipEout.

I do hope when Sony revives an old IP that the people here complaining will back up their talk and really buy the games

Some of the IPs i’d be interested in: Killzone, Resistance, Sly

They're trying to figure out how to turn Sly Cooper into a story about parenthood and acceptance as Sly vows to change and improve as a person for his kid.

I want a return of the cute colorful games of the past. I'm done with dark games.

WipeOut. When?

It’ll never happen but a new Medieval. I’d love to play as Sir Dan again. And with the most popular comments of Resistance, Killzone, Sly, Jak, Gravity Rush, and Infamous. PlayStation has such a rich history it’s time to focus on past winners rather then live service nonsense like Concord and the canceled Last of Us live service game. How much money was poured into that rubbish that should have been invested into one of the legacy franchises?

Yeah no, I don’t believe a single word out of Hulst’s mouth and I just don’t trust his judgment after how hard he pushed Concord and how it bombed.

WipeOut & WipeOut 2097 remastered, + the original soundtracks please.

WipeOut! Get it done Sony

Talk is cheap. Let’s see some games! Resistance, Wipeout, Demolition Derby, G-Police, Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper…so many great franchises collecting dust.

Vagrant Story. Re-something to it.

@bestuardo honestly I’d kill just for infamous 1+2 to get a remaster or a port. I don’t have my ps3 copies anymore so I’d love to revisit it on ps5

@Lup think it dream it do it

"We know we're sitting on a load of great old IPs but we don't want and can't be bothered to bring them back"

They have

Little Big Planet
WipeOut
DriveClub
SOCOM (Which you'd think they have done in VR"
Kill Zone
Resistance
Sly
Infamous
G-Police

They have so many great IPs but they'd rather just waste money on Live Service

I’m grateful they at least made a new Rachet so thanks Sony!

A lot of these games would be great to see them get the crash/sypro remasters.

Promise is a strong word

@Nakatomi_Uk do they really need a new drive club though , thats pretty much gt7 , and the last socom game didn't do so well on the ps3 , along with killzone and infamous on the ps4. people want these games back but they didn't sell that well sadly.

one of their best studios they purchased was nixxes , maybe invest more money into them and hire more people to expand their work load, i'd love to see if they could port over the infamous/killzone/resistance series to the ps5.

Still waiting for Killzone

"We are looking" means looking and rejecting.
They were approached for a new Wild Arms and rejected it. It went to be a kickstarter success instead. But it obviously would've been better with proper financing.
They also rejected Rollcage that ended up the same and released as grip. Would've been amazing with proper funding and team.

Sony would make huge buck with a remake of Legend of dragoon, for example. It's a cult classic.

Ape escape is a super fun series that in the hands of team asobi it would flourish.

They want to outsource? Sure. But it proves they don't want to do it.
Sega went from outsourcing to now working on them themselves.

I still don’t know why they changed their strategy from the PS4 days: use smaller ports, remasters and indie exclusives to fill the void and audience appetites whilst you bring out some decent single player titles. This is what people want!

The PS5 has only sold so well because Microsoft threw their ecosystem in the bin with the Xbox One and the FIFA crowd (a huge pay of the market) will buy it for the brand reliability.

As an Xbox owner who only stayed to keep his 360 collection I thought the PS4 a treasure trove of delight yet there isn’t anything, bar the release of Horizon 3 that autos currently make me but a PS5.

The Switch 2 is likely to out a dent in that plan.

@ecurb7 I already agreed with you that it's obviously money being the reason. No need to beat a dead horse. I pointed out that Sony perpetuates this line of thinking, it's likely why they had the ridiculous pursuit of those numbers in the form of Concord.
Just because Killzone was a first party game series doesn't mean it's AAA, that was literally why I pointed out how the last entry was a measly 10 hour experience. That isn't AAA budget. Just because people tried calling it "Halo Killer" doesn't mean it's AAA. Lots of games from lots of people were called "Halo Killer" lol.
It was almost like you went out of your way to ignore the entirety of my first response to you. All I was saying is it's been how many years since many of these other IPs have been dormant? Ape Escape, Lemmings, Twisted Metal, it's been so many years since there's been even an attempt at many of these games that it's kind of arrogant to assume that because they weren't smash hits at the time means that there's no hope for them to be successful if they were revived with a little attention to detail.
If that's something that doesn't interest the "general consumer" then fine. It would just be nice to see Sony actually start taking some chances more regularly instead of trying to make some cookie cutter thing that plays the same as 12 other super popular live service games or whatever. If you wanna leave past games in the past that's cool but I know lots of people love these games to this day & I don't see the harm if they tried to make a new entry for any of them.

@Ardath_Biru how about ridge racer? We won't see that anytime soon will we 😤🙄

@yohn777

Just a couple of points:
1. It's pretty common for multiplayer games to have short campaigns - just look at COD - so the fact that Killzone's may have been only 10 hours long is not uncommon, and doesn't mean it wasn't AAA.
2. For the rest, it feels like you are shooting the messenger. I would love it if Sony experimented more with smaller and more unusual titles - but those days are (like it or not) long gone. Today's Sony is pretty much only interested in making big budget AAA games which sell millions of copies - which is why people need to accept that most of these dormant franchises are probably not coming back, at least not from its own first-party studios.

I'm just saying... Let Team Asobi make a brand new Ape Escape game. It's a match made in heaven.

Yay! £70 remakes FTW!

😐

@twitchtvpat Driveclub was nothing like GT7, have you played those games? Try drift in either game for example... Night and day difference...

Just putting them on the service isn't enough.

Japan Studios contracts then split studios and doing fine.

Outsourcing for remakes/remasters or the service sure but they want a Marvel/Disney money, yet it won't happen, they are delusional and continue to be.

It's 1.the same PS4 IPs you either like, 2.sick of their directions and refuse to support and a few still appeal or 3.no IPs at all on the platform appeal anymore. 4.Otherwise 3rd parties/Indies fill in gaps or your going retro/other platforms on the side. I fit in the latter (2-4)

Killzone used in Helldivers, while cool isn't worth it to many of us likely. I'd take a campaign or botmatch. But they are on the service so it's something sure.

Resistance is at it's end yet has many stories that can be told anywhere that virus goes and Chimera weapons. Any average people regardless of how Burning Skies turned out. Or like 3 the ex soldier from 2 then an average person and resisting besides living conditions.

Certain licenses sure I don't expect WipEout due to music, GT/Driveclub obviously car, music, etc. licenses. MotorStorm not sure if just music besides just being a PS3 IP for streaming.

But many older IPs I do wonder. Will we see other MediEvil, obviously Ape Escape and others.

Things like Gex are coming to modern systems. Glover is taking forever come on Piko interactive, PC then Evercade great places to put it but come on.

But certain PS1/2/PSP for sure. I was surprised Pursuit Force even happened on the service.

Sad only Ridge Racer PSP 2 is on the service, it's a good game for sure, but no Type 4 or 5 & 7.

I doubt we see the Toro games, unless only on the Japanese side and not translated. It's not like they are relevant anymore or like Nintendo did with Famicom Detective Club revived those they don't have the same reason to translate Toro games at all.

Still Mr Mosquito was great to see, never would have expected it to happen. Demolition Girl won't that's for sure even besides licensing/source code.

What about Mr Domino, won't see that again.

But some of the Everybody's sports games would be nice to see.

Many obscure/niche ones that would be cool.

Legend of Dragoon for sure.

If third parties eh who knows. I don't expect Konami to go oh we will have Coded Arms and Contagion on there. Give us that procedurally generated roguelike FPS Konami (first game, Contagion is linear), we won't see Assault revived as a project either.

Capcom give people Under The Skin, for streamers, expand the content, keep the RE3 Nemesis characters/map in there. Like come on it's a great party game that needs to exist in the modern era.

Racing games I doubt any will offer them at all, or make a fictional car selection of them. GTI Club, Auto Modellista, Enuthsia and more. Thrilldrive.

Then again even Flatout had licensed music besides fake cars with no licenses or whatever other licenses maybe for billboards. They are on PC aren't they?

Many RPGs, action adventure, a whole bunch could exist but won't? Rail shooters (sure light guns help but still gyro support maybe?)

We aren't seeing Loaded/Reloaded from PS1 era on the service would we?

So many good PS1/2 era games won't happen.

Even my favourite 3D obstacle course PSP games aren't even on the Vita store (lucky Ubsioft's published Voodoo Dice was but it's not the same) so to me those won't ever happen the licenses for those.

@twitchtvpat Driveclub is an arcade racer more in line with say a Project Gotham Racing but instead of cities it's more highways like a Need For Speed title (Hot Pursuit 2010, others), Burnout or Gear Club Unlimited as a mobile to console example (highways, tracks around them sometimes & tracks DLC to be kind of like a GT/Forza or Grid but smaller as DLC), but differs.

You don't call a road trip, motorsport do you? Easy to compare there. One is like a roadtrip (open worlds & objectives or linear but event/mode types), the other is like a sport.

Who knows for Infamous/other IPs though returning besides PS+ service. Or Helldivers events.

Arcade sports games have their fictional differences too. Kart/anti grav aren't the same. Some have weapons/not, but what kart racer has 2 brakes/air brake logic to them. None of them.

Driveclub would be like a Forza Horizon competitor but smaller scale like a PGR was around segmented cities, but highways again like NFS is.

I mean even the objectives or segmented objectives like a drift mini segment on the track or overtaking an opponent are similar in Dirt 5 or something. GT can have those but they aren't the same structure or goals of the game.

GT that's more license tests as time trials, fuel running out driving missions, licensed stuff like Nascar/rally stuff or regular races. Even the campaign modes are different of objectives, entry access (GT series has done since first game that arcade racers don't focus on, GT is about motorsport/rules/logistics, Driveclub & arcade racers are crazy fun).

Far different games. GT is GT, Forza, Project Cars, etc. Motorsport and structure like motorsport calendars or entry requirements, cars tweaked as such besides some fictional elements in there.

Driveclub is NFS/PGR. While MotorStorm is like Mx vs ATV games, or Pure the Disney dirt bike game. having PGR driving arcade physics & arcadey objectives, drift, time, gates, overtaking, etc. but more short segments/stuff.

When you play them you notice the differences. I know as played GT for years & got to MotorStorm later but as playing the WRCs, MotoGPs, F1, MX vs ATV & many others annual or left behind racers it makes a lot of sense. Sega GT, Auto Modellista, Enuthsia, etc. etc. etc. With their differences in competition to GT3 & 4 or Forza Motorsport 1.

GT7 is very very different, I can compare it to GT5's level system/Forza Motorsport 6's roulette system but otherwise it's the most different from even the GT1-6 formats, content similar enough sure but very different games with menu books, music rally & more. But that's what it always tried to do find different ways to go about things and it still does even if I hate GT7. XD

Different goals, structure, cars, physics/handling and more.

Racing games have many layers, anyone that doesn't play them doesn't get that and it's plainly obvious.

Seeing a car/bike isn't the same as the structure/goals and execution of the game.

It's like calling an RPG a human story game or an action adventure game, there is an adventure & action in it but they are completely different right? Or a fighting game an arcade human combat game. It's sounds stupid doesn't it. Many games have combat but all differ don't they. All racing games differ as well with their details/differences.

You can't go oh cars or motorbikes & think it's the same, they are completely different.

GT7 & Forza Motorsport are similar, Forza Horizon is not, it's that obvious there.

@SuntannedDuck2 its more that i don't see sony wanting to keep another driving franchise going. especially with talk of forza possibly coming to ps5 as well.

@twitchtvpat I can see why. Drive club used real cars, the cost for them in GT is expensive as it is for sure.

Even though Driveclub has better weather effects then GT Sport and GT7. XD

The scale, the open world competition is too crowded. Smaller ones just don't ut it anymore I guess and Sony want big games not AA or A scale games. Sigh. It's very unlikeydue to those or other factors for sure.

I did go overboard on my prior comment, sorry. XD :/ :

Maintaining both is a challenge and GT just lands better with audiences even if Drive club was great I can see why it flopped at many chances it could have landed better but kept stumbling.

We won't likely see a MotorStorm or other insert racing here attempts I do think yeah 1 racing is enough I guess and after no kart racers landed either.

Though they ruined WipEout with Rush when bad game, wrong audience, crowd mobile market. Idiots but what else is new.

A GT B spec mobile maybe but it wasn't the right direction for WipEout. Nor where their audience is let alone a new one caring. Anti grav racing fans are on console not mobile. As if Fast Racing, Redout and more haven't made clear by now.

That and other arcade racers on mobile already thrive.

Or the PS4 entry pitch cancelled, and Omega Collection it stays.

One franchise Sony won't abandon in the future is Intergalactic. I can officially corroborate this release schedule from a leaked Sony internal document:

Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet - 2027
Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet Remastered - 2028
Intergalactic: Part II - 2034
Intergalactic: Part I - 2035
Intergalactic: Part II Remastered - 2036

@twitchtvpat DriveClub wasn't GT7 some believe it was mothballed because it threatened GT a bit, I liked it a lot.

SOCOM hasn't seen the light of day in what 2 decades ?? It would be a brilliant opportunity to put that on VR, WipeOut would sell well if it went back to it's 2097 roots a little bit

They have plenty of studios they could use to do these as side projects and they would sell games. They are willing to lose £400 million on Concord a game no one asked or wanted, Bungie take over which what hasn't brought anything back apart from discust on what the did to staff all while it's CEO got millions.

They continue to go back to it's PS3 personality do Sony this is all talk and they will never bring back games that made their consoles from the past. Why PS2 era was it's best and they never will bring that back