One thing that’s been clear ever since Helldivers 2 burst onto the scene and became one of the biggest games in the world is that Swedish developer Arrowhead has no media training.
Why would it, though? The original Helldivers was a modest success at best across multiple platforms, but no one really expected its successor to be this big.
Creative director Johan Pilestedt’s latest social media comments seem unadvised, to put it politely. He was told by one particularly aggressive fan to “never add DEI to your games”. DEI, for those who don’t know, stands for “diversity, equality, inclusion”.
Pilestedt replied: “If it doesn’t add to the game experience, it detracts. And games should be a pure pursuit of amazing moments.”
In defence of Pilestedt, he never outright says DEI is bad; our reading of his comment is that every element of a game should contribute cohesively to the overall experience. There are RPGs, for example, where allowing you to create a character that best represents you can improve the campaign.
Helldivers 2 has, to put it politely, attracted a sub-optimal community since it exploded, though; most recently, Arrowhead pandered to its outspoken fans after the game’s Killzone crossover content was considered overpriced. Previously, publisher Sony was forced to walk back its PSN login plans after the title was aggressively review bombed for retroactively adding the “feature”.
Ultimately, we agree with Pilestedt that “games should be a pure pursuit of amazing moments”, but representation doesn’t necessarily detract from that. We’re struggling a little bit by the insinuation that it does.
At the end of the day, a great game is a great game.
[source x.com]
Comments 140
Why cant people enjoy games for games anymore? Why does gamers need to look for a agenda in every game now?
Why does it matter if you play as a man or woman, does game suck if gender is not correct?
Enjoy games instead for story and gameplay since thats whats matter.
Well, I’m sure this comment section will be filled with reasoned and calm discussion on both sides of the issue.
No hot water. Not even controversial. Just the truth.
Why are you so desperate to become a gossip rag?
Where is the hot water?
What's controversial here?
He is right. If a game is rubbish, it should be called out and vice versa.
We want good games. I could be playing as a Pink alien for all I care. Just make sure its fun
Diversity, Equality, and Inclusion always improves games when used well - well made character creators including the above are 1 such very good example. I just hope this is just a somewhat badly worded reply, that was not fully thought out.
What he said is fine in the abstract but saying it in reply to a clearly agenda driven chud poster is a bad look.
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@get2sammyb I don't agree that Pilestedt is insinuating that diversity detracts from games, but is more broadly saying that features or perspectives bluntly forced into a game without a purpose don't deserve to be there. There's nothing in Helldivers that necessitates DEI commentary one way or another. You are a nameless, expendable peon. Your personal identity has literally nothing to do with the game. There are women and PoC on your ship. None of those things indicate DEI. It just means that there are people on your ship. They could be anyone. And so could you.
Edit: DEI is a political/social policy initiative. Diversity is a state of being.
It wasn't a bad statement but based in their history of lowering their head since real success hit them get ready for an apology in the upcoming days ... or hrs lol.
Imagine reporting on this nonsense, it's 2025, get a grip.
But it has a political message, it’s pro democracy…
Of course it was ResetEra that got the torches and pitchforks.....
@Athrum
A very special forum, and not in a good way..
Why wouldn't they embrace DEI? Games that do are very successful and certainly don't flop spectacularly one after another. It's like he doesn't want to make money.
“If it doesn’t add to the game experience, it detracts. And games should be a pure pursuit of amazing moments.”
I can't believe this is a controversial statement.
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I cannot think of a single game ever that has suffered in a single way due to diversity or inclusion.
Nothing wrong with his comemnt really. I'm no fan of forcing DEI which has caused problems or simply loss of profits for multiple companies (Boeing probably the highest profile one), but I also detest this new wave of internet right wingers who use DEI as their latest buzzword as the reason for whatever they don't like.
I dont get it. Whats the beef with this? Thats a solid reply, doesnt seem to lean anywhere politically or imply anything, at least from how i read it. Are people really upset about this, or is Push Square just trying to stir things up to start the year? 😜
@nessisonett Exactly, 100% true!
Inclusion should be the natural inclination of normal well-adjusted humans.
But that also has nothing to do with this statement, which seems 100% correct and would have been fine as a stand-alone comment.
@dskatter I tought that at first, but I generally don't think people give a *****, regardless of what people think, most people still play games for fun and release, and don't care for some hidden agenda or whatever in the background
@nessisonett
Truth!
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A lot of fuss over nothing
@nessisonett I agree, the pure act of inclusion or diversity has never hurt a game, but when writers of a game go out of their way to call attention to it, it can hurt - especially when it is blunt and shallow. I'm currently playing DA: Veilguard and the writing is so cringe about saying "look at us and how inclusive we are!" If it was handled more tactfully to make you think about it without directly saying it, that's where the true artistry lies. Think about all the old Star Trek episodes that dealt with heady issues, but never said "racism is bad." It just showed you that fact through allegory.
@dskatter I try.
Not a great reply, given the comment he was responding to. Representation matters, period. Allowing people to see themselves in the games they play, and all literature we consume, is vitally important to building a healthy culture. Folks that say “we don’t need gender or race in games” probably have not experienced gender dismorphia, or racism, or sexism. Yuck…
Hilarious that PushSquare said in their new years post they’d focus less on sensationalism, only to do this not even 3 days in….
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@Neverwild
Why cant developers make a games for gamers anymore? Why does developer need to add an agenda in every game now?
Why do they make a game that sucks and then make the focus, focusing on what gender the character is or isn't
They should make games for the story and characters, then they can put in what ever they want, ala BG3, and no one will complain.
@wildcat_kickz In that case, its the writing thats the issue, not the inclusion of a diverse set of characters. You can be inclusive and still be a great writer, those two things arent mutually exclusive
DEI if put into a game merely to tick a box/boxes should always be called out. If it's there to help the story fair enough but let's not do a Disney and just bung it in for the sake of it.
This is why I far prefer Japanese games to recent western releases as the chances of that crap happening is nil. Games can be art (and many are) and art should stand on it's own merit without some iffy consultant overlooking production with a tick sheet...
Hot water from the very small group of terminally online people who demand acknowledgement and validation from all media they consume, maybe.
I love Push Square, but how is this even worth reporting on?
@LogicStrikesAgain That's exactly my point.
@JackStiles
They do but not every game needs to have a white male lead or a hot girl in them.
Youre proof of my point that you focus more on what gender character has then on game itself.
Do you enjoy enough games or are you looking for agendas in every game?
Are people even mad by his comment? I see nothing wrong
The "E" in DEI is Equity, not Equality. These are not the same concepts.
Pilestedt replied: “If it doesn’t add to the game experience, it detracts. And games should be a pure pursuit of amazing moments.”
A valid point. It's fine.
@Trapdoor Why does it matter if some characters are asian or black? A characters skin colours doesnt make a game bad.
Poor character building, writing, acting, development and design is what makes a bad videogame, not a cast of various backgrounds. Again, you can make a great game with a diverse set of characters, those arent mutually exclusive things.
I get what you’re saying about Disney, but if you really want to critize them, you should criticize them on their writing skills and poor story and character building. Those are the reasons their movies sucks.
It reads like a neutral response to me. He's not saying he's against it, just that he wouldn't do it for the sake of doing it. Only when it makes sense to do it.
His comment itself is about as uncontroversial as one can get. BUT it was in response to a DEI question so of course people are going to read it how they want to. The lesson here: ignore every idiot who complains about DEI, make your game fun, the end.
Seems like a fair enough point, don't add things for the sake of them being there. If what is being added contributes to the overall game experience, go ahead, if it stands out in comparison to the other content, it has no business being there.
@wildcat_kickz You’re right, my bad man, i probably shouldnt be commenting in between sets at the gym, it gets me too hyped up. Push Square realy knows how to trigger me with these articles so early in the year lol
Things like a imaginary woman girl in a space suit? Nintendo had one in the 80's already.
I think people are way to focused on what gender a character is. Why is having a gay character a issue anyway.
People complain way to much anyway as a developer why even respond to these things at all.
Having a gay character is a issue for some people anyway you look at it even if implemented and well.
Gamers telling developers to stop with DEI are the same ones using the word "woke" wrong. These delusional people change the entire true meaning of words/phrases to fit their own political agenda. Just enjoy the game, movie, or show. Stop whining!
@LogicStrikesAgain The most important thing is having a good cast with a good story.
If you have a gay lead character why not if you can make a good story and he or she is fun go for it.
But to fair some people will hate anything gay or with a different skincolor no matter how well written the character or story may be.
What is even remotely character driven in Helldivers 2 to begin with. Is there even a story in the game at all?
Someone said No DEI! Quick! Write an article about it!
Called it! When I saw this comment a few days ago, my immediate thought was "he's going to get so much crap from ResetEra about this". They're so predictable.
@Neverwild
Gamers wouldn't need to look for an agenda if games nowadays didn't have one.
It also doesn't help the fact that most DEI games aren't the best examples of good games but the exact opposite of that, they are prime examples of what a bad game looks like.
@Neverwild I don't see how I am proof when I was just correcting your post.
BG3 keeps all their statistics, majority of characters created, in a game where you can have horns, be a dragon, strong orc, a little nimble hobbit, is literally generic white guy or hot girl. It's what they majority of players want, because they made it themselves.
Games themselves are a power fantasy, literally what playing a game is to the gamer. The main character should be appealing in some way, loving and intelligent or hot, or strong badass. It matters not what it is as long as it's appealing.
So yes, the easiest way to create an appealing main lead is to have a white male lead or hot girl. Because that is what people want, it's the easiest to pull off.
Don't know what would possess him to even reply to a comment like that. Just ignore the idiots.
@LogicStrikesAgain Lol. All good, dude. I shouldn't be on this thread at work either. I'm here to bring reasonable discourse to the masses!
I had to Google DEI because of this article, I'm not kidding. And it still makes no sense. Maybe I'm not playing enough of the popular games, or it's getting lost in translation. Or maybe you have to experience an actual dictatorship to predict how being anti equality/diversity will end. I get that some people don't like change but as others have stated it's 2025, the world will continue to move on without them.
@GirlVersusGame Ignorance is bliss in this case, better not get too informed, the real world is much less divided and more nuanced than the internet bubble
Looks like 2025 is already going the same way 2024 went. It's only going to continue to change once the "chud haters" begin to lose power. The landscape is making a change once more and people aren't going to like it.
@JackStiles you keep proving my point so thank you for that.
Did this really cause controversy? It seems pretty rational and reasoned to me. Nothing to get annoyed about.
I think he's semi joking or at least saying it's silly to talk about, but at this point it is just completely not worth engaging with anyone who asks you about DEI.
It's just someone arguing in bad faith, looking for something to get mad at. It's best ignored.
@RBMango Resetera is one of the most intolerant gaming forums going, permbans for even expressing a single opinion against the hive mind. They even make Eurogamer, the site that for a while tried to pretend Harry Potter didn't exist, seem relatively balanced.
And yet the very intolerance of groups like that is also the thing that is going to bring about their downfall over the next year or so. I like that.
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This is gossiprag tabloid fodder, no one's making an outcry over this. I remember coming to this site to read about patents way back when. But such is the way of the internet now, anything for clicks. I'll be blocking the site on my network. Please go back to the standards I once held dear.
He didn't really say anything..
This is like the most balanced reply, not controversial in the slightest lol
Comment section is an embarrassment if you can’t see the insinuation. You want to moan about people overreacting but that’s the point about making such a poorly worded statement (if it even was poorly worded, he may believe it truly). Representation does not take away from art, bad art is bad art. If you’re willing to allow the insinuation that it does to take hold you are part of the problem.
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No DEI ONLY DEMOCRACY!!!
I 100% agree but everyone is free to have their own opinions.
No they haven't. Get a grip, and stop trying to cause drama.
@8bit4Life
How is diversity political though. What is political about being black in a story? Or gay? Or a woman? Is being a white character in a story political too then? How is somebody who just exists political? Also just about every story since the beginning of time including in video games has had some kind of message behind it. Most just don't complain because they were either too young to remember, too stupid to get the obvious, or it was politics they agreed with so they didn't complain because of double standards.
Does it really matter if the protagonist is male, female or them? As long as we have the choice to pick that is all that should matter. People need to realise there are bigger issues in this world
More character creation and cast flexibility in a game is almost always a good thing.
Diversity/inclusion isn't inherently political or bad unless your brain is wired to think that's the case.
Let's rewind back to Street Fighter 2. It has men and women from all over the world in it...but nobody cried about "DEI" or "Woke" when it came out.
It's all about how it's handled/executed. Tekken has men and women from all over the world too, and they all speak their native language in-game, and I don't see chuds crying about it.
So what separates those games from let's say, a Concord? On a surface level id say it's character designs that are appealing to the players.
When I tried Concord during it's free weekend I literally sat there for minutes trying to decide who to try because none of them appealed to me, they just about all looked dumb so I tried the robot.
When Street Fighter 6 launched I booted it up and saw multiple characters I wanted to try right away like Kimberly, Lily, Marisa, Deejay, Manon, Jamie etc.
And for those unaware, Kimberly is a Black American woman, Lily is a Mexican girl, Marisa is a huge muscular Italian woman, Dee Jay is a Jamaican man, Manon is a woman from France, and Jamie is a guy from Hong Kong.
Pretty diverse right? The main difference is the characters in Street Fighter 6 look cool, fun, or interesting in one way or another. Concord had the diversity, but the characters looked terrible.
Diversity, equality and inclusion in games are all good things, however you still have to make a game people actually want to play.
I've read this news from PSLS and Pilestedt said one more statement which Push Square didn't write.
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2025/01/02/helldivers-2-dev-dei-comments-cause-stir/
Pilestedt answered one person who asked "How would DEI have benefited Helldivers 2?" and he said "I don't like labels. But mankind is united in its extreme xenophobia on Super Earth. inclusion so, maybe that's DEI?
I really don't care. Make good games, don't make a contemporary political statement."
I honestly don't see what's the fuss with Pilestedt statement. But again, it's twitter where people have this weird curiousity about what's other people political view and wants to argue just for the sake of arguing. If i'm Pilested, i wouldn't interact with anyone from twitter especially people who keeps nagging on about DEI / woke this and that.
@Majin_Deicide Precisely. I have been a gamer since the mid-80s and never cared about male or female characters, or what ethnicity they were. The game just needs to be fun and interesting.
@Majin_Deicide Glad to see some reason in this comments section. Well said.
People really need to get off of social media. They’d be in a happier headspace.
In isolation his comment is obviously perfectly fine. But as a response to that original post, it doesn't come across particularly well. Something he must've known while he was typing it.
Well, he's absolutely right. To think I clicked on this article expecting him to have actually said something offensive.
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@DonJorginho just class isn't it..I'm actually at a loss for words for once. Just magic...
@PegasusActual93 I think most sane people wouldn't have a problem with the "D" in DEI. It's the "I" where people get hung up. BUT, before someone misconstrues what I'm saying, I don't think inclusion is bad. It's inherently neutral. What matters is if it's appropriate for the game and how it's handled.
What's appropriate for the game is obviously up to the dev to decide, but gamers will notice, if they don't think it makes sense.
In Helldivers, it doesn't matter a lick. Who cares who the character is?
In a game like Kingdom Come, which is trying to maintain a sense of historical accuracy, it would be interpreted as a political or societal statement by the dev, since it wouldn't be realistic for non-white folks to be roaming around in great numbers in Bohemia in the 15th century. If the dev made Kingdom Come with an all female, South-Pacific cast, it would be taken as super weird because it doesn't make sense for the setting.
That's obviously an extreme, hypothetical example, but that's at least how I took Pilestedt’s comment.
I know what he’s trying to say (that adding sociopolitical subjects needs to serve a purpose and not be just for show and shoehorned in) but I it’s a bit vague and the word pure is, uh, unfitting given how many lunatics think lgbtq or folks of color are ‘impure’.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, developers need to be disbarred from social media. It’s a can of worms no studio needs and makes optics and sometimes the success of a game quite poor.
@wildcat_kickz that’s my take as well. Well stated.
Most of the complaints I am hearing today about character's skin colors, sexuality, or gender are exactly the same arguments I heard as a kid in the 1970s about people of color being in TV shows and movies. Sure, there are some companies making a concentrated effort to have diverse characters in them. We need that, especially after so many decades of media and art that was dominated by white culture. Sometimes they spend more time with that then character development (looking at you Disney). That's to be expected. But with equality sometimes the pendulum is going to swing the other way, as it should. Didn't think I'd see this much whining and outrage over a slight shift, but I guess all that racism and misogyny is hard to let go.
@wildcat_kickz I highly recommend the book Black Tudors by Miranda Kaufmann. It’s easy to sit there and say there wouldn’t be black people in Bohemia in the 15th Century but the reality is that there absolutely could have been, given the amount of interesting stories about Africans who made their way to the English court, which implies a higher number of uninteresting people of similar backgrounds across much less interesting courts across Europe. History is written by certain people, our understanding of countless historical periods has shifted over the years due to historians being influenced by common morality of the time, Sparta being a prime example of having its homosexuality excised in favour of them being macho men. The point being, who’s to say that your understanding of historical accuracy is any more informed than the writers of these games? Without new writers, with something new to say, the entire medium becomes tired. This awful, anti-innovation culture is killing the industry, people are so desperate to hold onto their bigotry that they’re cannibalising originality.
@JackStiles Miles Morales made a 242% return on the games original investment. He's not white. That's over 14 million copies of the game. Or rather 14 million people who had no problem playing a game featuring a character who wasn't 'white'. Quality has nothing to do with skin colour.
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@LogicStrikesAgain I understand completely. I haven't watched the news in years, the same goes for Twitter, Facebook, VK, etc. I'm from Russia and have seen firsthand what kind of a society you create when you try to enforce 'normality' by stamping out diversity, equality and inclusion.
I had enough friends leave the country because of it and I originally got into gaming to get away from all of that. Years later here it is in gaming too. It blows my mind that anyone would want to do it in an industry that's supposed to be about escapism and entertainment. Truly dangerous times.
@Flaming_Kaiser Relatability is an issue many have with gay characters, for one. Some have religious beliefs that clash with it as well. And many are just tired of seeing something over represented in media. We don't come across unapologetically gay people in every day life often, at least most people don't. Yet it is in plenty of games, often in an unavoidable way. Once you see something put in your face over and over in an attempt to normalize something that never needed it to begin with, you get pretty sick of it. People get sick of things they like if they're exposed too much, forget things they couldn't care less about or even hate. This is the pendulum swinging the other way after years of swinging too far too the left. The only way to slow it all down is to acknowledge how ridiculous both sides have been and agree on being reasonable and reliant on merits of people and the truth of matters, not what their identity is or what their ideology tells them is the truth.
@GirlVersusGame Yrp, totally agree. Because he is appealing in other ways to many people. He also kinda hot, so that helps.
As I said, games need a main character that is appealing, and the easiest way to do that is hot girl or generic white guy. It's not the only or even best way though.
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@JackStiles Mario isn't hot to me, is he hot to you? that's a franchise with over 800million copies sold. Most male characters aren't hot, they look beat to Hell and back. They are un'shaven 30 to 40 year old white guys with a chip on their shoulder. It's like trying to sell Disney Princesses to little girls, unhealthy because it creates a false sense of what's normal. Game studios have a responsibility to lead by example, that includes allowing for diversity.
When someone at the top goes on social media and starts to take sides like that it can impact sales. Not everyone wants to support a studio or company who allows themselves to be represented by such backwards thinking. They are gambling on trolls buying their games when most of them are only there to spread even more hate, they aren't there to support the game. They are there because of association to their own agenda and they use industries like the gaming industry to sow those seeds and recruit like minded individuals. They could care less about the quality of the game, they just want to remove what they see as a threat to their perfect world.
Others might not agree with what people are calling DEI but there is a thin line when it comes to association viewed through the subjective eyes of an observer.
Why is he in trouble? He's right. The irony of the intolerance of the 'tolerant'. Injecting DEI and making it a primary factor for the sake of it is in itself a form of discrimination and can lead to the game itself become secondary to the message. Much like most of the recent Star Wars output that done so miserably.
Of course, people are free to have their own opinion on this and I respect that.
The fact the chode he replied to is trying to push an "anti-woke" talking point at the creative director of a game that completely lambasts and satirizes the sort of fascist ideology whose supporters would take issue with DEI is well beyond my daily recommended dose of irony.
@Vega37 Movies and games should be evaluated by their quality. Some people unfortunately correlate bad quality movies to the fact that it has a gay protagonist in it. There are many bad movies which have gay representation, but they are bad because they have awful writing, acting, storytelling and probably overall production. Thats why modern Disney sucks in my opinion, while production levels are very high, they fall short in originality and story telling, focusing solely on a protagonist identity instead of great filmmaking.
I mean, can people even name a few movies where the movie has a great story, great writing and acting, but is ultimately let down by the protagonist being a gay character?
Because I can name a few movies with gay protagonists that are highly regarded:
And they aren't highly regarded just because they have gay people in it, but because of achieving a high standard of filmmaking.
Gay characters doesn't make a movie bad, bad filmmaking makes a bad movie. There’s a distinction that i feel some people find hard to distinguish.
@GirlVersusGame No, he is fun and kind of adorable, makes cute sounds when he jumps. Mario is still appealing because of that.
Most male characters being beat to hell, or gruff with a chip on their shoulder appeals to a male audience. Many appeal not for looks, take Trevor from GTA5. He is a fat, ugly guy and people love him because he is an ***** and it's funny.
Not everyone wants to support a company that picks sides like that, or rants about hating gamers or people who represent that company. But you know who buys majority of games? None of those people who care or read those tweets. People who don't read gaming news, people who don't care what company made the product. Majority of sales are from normal people outside of the gaming sphere and when you don't make a character that is appealing, or hot, or relatable; or make your focus on the gameplay and write a good story. Those people probably aren't going to like it or even buy the game in the first place. Then you have games like Concord, where most people never even heard of it, before or after it came out and needed those hardcore gamers to lay a ground work and spread the name. Since it didn't appeal to them either, it was left in the dirt.
The only responsibility of a game company is to sell games. They are not there to lead the masses, sway thoughts of the people. They are there to make a good game, that people enjoy and will buy so their company will make money. That is it. No more, no less. If you want to make a game where all it does is leading the way on social agendas, go ahead, see how it goes. We have a great example in the title of Dustborn.
@Northern_munkey I really miss when gaming sites talked about games and not all the nonsense surrounding them.
If u hire a person based off of inclusiveness and not experience or talent ur literally putting ur product at risk if the person us not qualified 🙂
Obvious forced is bad. There I said it.
@riceNpea I can't even believe for two seconds that the author of this article knew just reposting this was going to be divisive. Then act shocked about the comment section.
@JackStiles Dustborn is a small indie title that was never meant to sell millions of copies. It barely broke 2 million USD in it's entire budget, compared to Helldivers 50 to 100 million USD. Look at a game like Overwatch that's hardly generic, it's full of all kinds of skin colours, body shapes, genders and even sexualities yet it has something like 100 million players.
Companies need to make money sure and it's a numbers game but there are diverse games out there making good money. I get what you mean by normal too but people are just people regardless of their ethnicity, sexuality, you might not want them in your video games but you have them in this thread right now.
Everyone deserves to be represented in an industry that they pump money into. It's not just straight white people who support the industry, I back kickstarters on other platforms, Sony releases, Steam and even some on xBox. We don't always get what we want and you are going to have to get used to the idea of other races and genders being represented in the games they buy. Goodnight 👋
Imagine saying this when you released Helldivers 2 a very woke game.
Seems like a very pragmatic, non-controversial stance to take. He's not saying it's good or bad, just that if it doesn't contribute to the core experience, it can only be bad.
Which I don't necessarily agree with (a lot of games have inconsequential features that don't hamper its core experience — which is to say nothing of DEI specifically). But I wouldn't call his position problematic in the least.
@GirlVersusGame I think you misunderstood something. I never once said I don't want people of other ethnicity in games I play. I simply said BG3 most custom made character is generic white guy, second being hot elf girl. Majority made this themselves, meaning most people who play games that is what they want in a main character.
Overwatch is a great example where you make a good game, and no one cares what kind of representation you add in. It's also a great example of hot sexy characters to help sell a game.
I don't know why you think I need to get used to seeing representation, when I am literally just stating facts and giving examples to support them. Usually when I make a custom character, it's a small squirrelly dude or a thick black woman.
Sammy certainly comes across as having an agenda here. Just started coming to this site from the editorial messes of ign. This is just as bad. Do better.
He made a self-evident observation, not sure why any reasonable person would object.
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@nessisonett I’m well aware of the Greco-Roman propensity for a good ol’ fashioned swingers club. And yes, non-whites likely were in Bohemia in the 15th century, but not to the percentage where a game should feel required to have them there if that’s not the story they’re telling. I also think there’s plenty of room for those stories to be told, just not in every game (I eagerly await AC: Shadows). It’s up to the dev, not you or me, to decide that. My point is if it’s shoehorned into a game, rather than naturally woven into the fabric of the narrative, it’s going to stick out and it’s going to come across as patronizing. Bad writing is bad writing. Lazy writing is lazy writing. And just because that writing may have something to do with diversity and inclusion, it doesn’t make it any better.
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I felt quite confused when I read his comment. I kept thinking there was more he must’ve said. This is probably the oddest and most exaggerative articles I’ve read on here. I see nothing controversial about his statement.
@DonJorginho I agree. If this is how pushsquare is starting the new year off then I may have think about whether or not I want to remain a part of the excellent community they have fostered. Its a shame because I really enjoy the discussions and banter with all of you but I find it hard to be part of pushsquare when they deliberately publish these nonsense,flaming articles.
@Northern_munkey very much in the same boat pal, I come to these sites to get away from political/social discourse, and now it’s seemingly being thrust onto the front page every week as it brings in the traction/ad revenue for PushSquare.
If they didn’t make that whole song and dance about the new years promise and being different I wouldn’t be as disappointed but my god they didn’t even last a week.
@wildcat_kickz You could say that about literally anything though. FPS games can be good or bad, they have to be a well-made game to be good. Games with pigs can be good or bad, even though I like pigs. The entire crux of the issue with what this guy is saying is that it’s drawing a correlation between diversity and quality, which hasn’t been true for a single game I can think of. It’s just utterly pointless to even talk about, he’s giving airtime to the very worst dregs of gamers for no reason. It goes without saying that no dev would want to add elements to a game unless they were a certain quality so what it boils down to is ‘do you instantly jump towards questioning the motivations of the writers or use of DEI practices if there are minorities present, and you don’t if it’s straight white male characters’. Because that’s basically just the textbook definition of bigotry. If you don’t ask yourself if straight white male characters have been shoehorned into a narrative for the sake of agenda then that implies a certain level of bias. Not that it’s always a conscious thing, lots of people are biased in their own way but society across the world being far more diverse than before means that we all have to make an effort to address our own biases.
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LogicStrikesAgain wrote:
100% right. Far too many conflate bad writing, or bad film making with these points. But there's far too many being disingenuous and pulling in their culture war BS to make a point.
Vega37 wrote:
Why would gay people need to be apologetic? Do you feel the need to apologise for being straight? They are just normal people like you and I with a different sexual preference, it's not that hard.
And yes I do see gay people every day, but I suppose that is at the heart of the matter of why I think like I do and you think like you do... which only seems to further prove the point of why inclusion is still necessary.
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@DonJorginho I 100% agreed with you
The problem with how people react to games goes beyond what is said by disruptive vocal minorites on social media and extends into how the mainstream amplifies it.
Of course it was...
@nessisonett I don't disagree with your premise. As I said earlier, the pure idea of diversity and inclusion can't make something bad because it's inherently neutral. Diversity is reality. But my major issue with what you're saying is that you are assuming the absolute worst of Pilestedt, calling him bigoted, based on a pretty innocuous tweet. This is a problem I see pretty often, where anything that could be interpreted as racist, bigoted, sexist, etc. is automatically assigned those pejoratives, whether it's deserved or not. Diversity can add to a game experience, so his tweet is not ruling out diversity or inclusion. My interpretation of what he's saying is that if your goal is to check a box, then you're motivations are wrong. Helldivers 2 has plenty of PoC on your starship, so I don't see what the issue is. It's not like he is insisting that only white people are allowed to be Helldivers. In fact, that's obviously not what he's saying.
Also, an important note is that he is not giving airtime to the "dregs" of the internet. He replied to a tweet. Push Square is giving airtime to the dregs because it creates engagement (example 1: our multi-comment exchange).
Just because someone said something stupid on the internet and Pilestedt's first instinct wasn't to call that someone stupid, it doesn't make Pilestedt bigoted.
@nessisonett
Diversity in itself is neither here nor there, until it becomes a development priority (where gameplay/experience/entertainment value should always come first).
> It goes without saying that no dev would want to add elements to a game unless they were a certain quality
There are explicit diversity requirements to be eligible for a number of game awards. For publicly traded companies, there are also strong financial incentives to meet DEI milestones, resulting in frequent, superficial inclusion/check listing. These range from well thought out, to obnoxiously performative (the progressive term rainbow capitalism springs to mind as an example), to at odds with the themes, tone or general tenets of good story telling/character development. In practice, these forced considerations, coupled with cultivated press outrage (this article being one of a litany of examples), means design meetings are dominated by concerns of representation and potential offense. Suddenly, entertainment isn't the primary consideration of an entertainment industry. Creatives walk on eggshells while expected to be creative. As someone working in it, that is my personal gripe; The current climate has stifled the creative process.
> Instantly jump towards questioning the motivations of the writers or use of DEI practices if there are minorities present
Calling it bigotry is reductive; People have enjoyed minority and/or female protagonists for decades. I think it's more cynicism. Poor games and films often spotlight diversity to draw attention away from an otherwise underwhelming product. It's the fault of the the executive/marketing departments, but none the less it establishes a negative correlation. So does using those characters for ham-fisted contemporary social commentary or lacklustre characterisation to speed run your quarterly social requirements checklist.
Isn't the ship master a shaved-headed black woman? I thought that was like the most 'DEI' you could get.
@Vega37 I really just play to have fun and see a interesting story i dont want a carbon copy of my life. A gay person is probably the same like me with the same issues he just has another sexual preference so why should it matter.
"We don't come across unapologetically gay people in every day life often"
You mean you dont see gay people or people being themselves in your life? Me neither what does that matter? Look there are people that are just not you or me and have certain different struggles but also a lot of the same issues in life the are just people with a different sexual preference not aliens.
And religious people man they are so filled with hatred towards others its scary. Im a catholic im baptised but in real life i should do way to more to be called one. I pray when im in trouble its a little hypocrite and get some hope out of it and i dont believe God is a evil entity that is filled with hatred towards it own creation.
I dont look down on gay people its not in my blood. You hide behind not being able to feel connected its just a person that happens to love someone of the same sex with probably a lot of the same issues as you.
In the end religious people are way more dangerous and create so much death and hate then any gay people. You dont hear about a lot of terror attacks done by gay people more then enough against them though.
@themightyant I dont see a lot of gay people but why should anyone feel bad about being himself or herself. In the end we all are people just with probably a lot of the same issues and we just have another sexual orientation.
@DonJorginho Hear, hear!
@Weez This is exactly the kind of context I think a lot of people are missing. Very well said!
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@Weez spot on Weez.
@Weez I get what you’re saying, but what makes it a bad movie is the fact that they fail to make a compelling product around their pursuit of inclusiveness.
Problem is people are critiquing the fact that it is diverse as the cause of why a product is bad, instead of the real reasons like awful writing, acting and acting etc.
People say Disney movies suck because of diversity and inclusion, thats however not correct. They suck because theyre unoriginal, with bad writing and character building.
Adding in diversity isn't what makes the movie bad, forgetting to create a good film is what makes it bad. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
It sucks that you have to work in an environment that only focuses on representation, i can see how that stifles creativity. If thats their only focus, they will not make a good product, that i agree with
Pilestedt is right.
@LogicStrikesAgain I don't think that's what @Weez is saying. At least it's not what I'm saying. I don't think either of us think "good" and "diverse" are mutually exclusive. I just don't think they're mutually inclusive either.
@LogicStrikesAgain
> that it is diverse as the cause of why a product is bad, instead of the real reasons like awful writing, acting and acting etc.
There's a difference between the general notion of diversity, and the practicalities of the financially incentivised corporate pursuit of it. Diversity requirements in a company, in my experience, usually start at the behest of executives/stakeholders. Seminars and consultancy follows, always nebulous with little to no thought of context or execution. Less "lets make a different character or cast", more intersectionality. Any opposition, regardless of motivation, is dealt with harshly. This In practice lends itself to a lot of uncertainty, often resulting in the "safest" choice as to not risk offending or creating something "problematic".
The simplest example I can provide is seeing a bunch of compelling vignettes, complete with exposition and legitimately endearing character beats, scrapped because they made a female character seem "vulnerable"; Despite her being immensely capable during gameplay, it was an explicitly discouraged characterisation. The outcome? A colleague disappointed and demotivated, criticisms of an unrelatable, cold protagonist and plot points lacking motivation at launch.
> they fail to make a compelling product around their pursuit of inclusiveness
And that's my point. The corporate climate which prioritises DEI, practically, more often than not imposes substantial constraints on the design space. The social climate that enforces it impacts morale and investment within the team. Both can significantly undermine the quality of output.
> It sucks that you have to work in an environment that only focuses on representation.
It's a fairly small industry with a lot of talent shuffling about. From what I hear, it's not uncommon.
@wildcat_kickz @Weez Fair enough, i dont have knowledge about the inner workings and corporate dynamics, so i cant really comment on it.
But from what Ive seen there are plenty great movies and games that include diversity and are inclusive, so I dont see it as a root cause of a bad product, only if they forget to make a compelling product around it, like good storytelling, well developed characters etc.
But yes i agree, it shouldnt be like a checklist and just tacked on for the sake of it. And i do agree that if thats their only focus, that would greatly stifle creativity and result in a mediocre outcome.
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