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A dramatic shake up of the Sony hierarchy has seen PlayStation ditch its dual CEO approach less than a year after it was introduced.
Ex-Guerrilla Games managing director Hermen Hulst was appointed co-CEO alongside Platform Business Group bigwig Hideaki Nishino following the departure of Jim Ryan. The pair’s tenure officially started on 1st June, 2024.
But the run is over, as Nishino will now take sole CEO control of Sony Interactive Entertainment, the Sony business subsidiary which contains PlayStation.
“I am truly honored to take the helm at Sony Interactive Entertainment,” Nishino said in a press release. “Technology and creativity are two of our biggest strengths as we continue to focus on developing experiences that deliver entertainment for everyone. We will continue to grow the PlayStation community in new ways, such as [intellectual property] expansion, while also delivering the best in technology innovation.
“I want to thank Hermen for his expertise and leadership as he continues his role as CEO, Studio Business Group. I am deeply grateful for the PlayStation community and their continued support and I am very excited for what the future holds.”
As mentioned above, Hulst will continue to lead PlayStation’s first-party, so this reorganisation doesn’t change an enormous amount for the day-to-day running of the organisation.
It does suggest, however, that the dual CEO setup wasn’t working as effectively as Sony management would have liked.
Back in October, both Hulst and Nishino attempted to explain their roles to Variety.
“This is not co-CEOs; it’s two CEOs for the company,” Nishino confusingly explained. “Hermen runs his thing, I run my thing, and then we get together to talk about how to grow the business. Growing the business for success has a conflict as well: how we impact each other or how we want to sacrifice or not. It’s a balance. It’s an opportunity and a risk.”
That risk is now gone, however, as while Hulst and Nishino will continue to work closely, it’s the latter who will have the final say.
As part of the change, Sony Group Corporation president, chief operating officer, and chief financial officer Hiroki Totoki will step down from his position as Sony Interactive Entertainment chairman to become CEO of Sony Group Corporation, succeeding CEO Kenichiro Yoshida, who will remain as director, representative corporate executive officer, and chairman.
“It has been a pleasure working more closely with Hermen and Nishino and gaining insight into the ever-changing, fast-paced world of Sony Interactive Entertainment,” Totoki said.
“As we hand the baton to Nishino and this exceptional leadership team, I am confident that [Sony Interactive Entertainment] will reach new heights in the days ahead. After 30 years of delivering exceptional entertainment worldwide, this marks an exciting new chapter for [Sony Interactive Entertainment], highlighting its commitment to fostering creativity and building meaningful connections for millions of players.”
Lin Tao, currently a finance executive at Sony Interactive Entertainment, will step into the role of Chief Financial Officer at Sony Group Corporation. Her replacement is yet to be announced.
All of these changes will be effective from 1st April, 2025.
Why Is Sony Interactive Entertainment Changing Its Dual CEO Approach?
While this seems like a seismic change to PlayStation’s hierarchy, the reality is that both Hulst and Nishino have talked about spending up to 80% of their time focused on their respective roles.
For Nishino, that’s the Platform Business Group, which oversees hardware, accessories, PSN, and third-party relations.
For Hulst, that’s the Studio Business Group, which includes first-party games and other internal initiatives like PS Productions.
Under this new structure, neither executive’s roles and responsibilities will change. The big alteration is that Totoki is moving up in the chain, to CEO of Sony Group Corporation. This means he’ll no longer be involved in the day-to-day running of Sony Interactive Entertainment.
It’s likely, then, that Nishino will take on some of Totoki’s responsibilities, while Hulst continues to focus all of his attention on first-party games.
What Does This New Leadership Mean for PlayStation?
For the average consumer, it’s business as usual. While the hierarchy has been tweaked, Hulst is still very much focused on first-party, while Nishino continues to oversee other areas of the business. Even though they’re no longer co-CEOs, they will still have an extremely close working relationship.
It’s not been the best period for PlayStation’s first-party of late, with the failure of Concord and the subsequent cancellation of numerous live service projects dominating headlines.
Perhaps it’s advantageous, then, for Hulst not to be distracted by other management tasks, so he can focus solely on shepherding Sony’s suite of internally owned studios back to making great games.
It should be underlined, however, that last year’s Astro Bot was a Game of the Year winner, while Helldivers 2 became Sony’s fastest-ever selling game. This year will see the release of Ghost of Yotei and Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, alongside updates to anticipated titles like Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet and Marvel’s Wolverine.
[source sony.com]
Comments 110
It is clear that running the first party studios on their own is a full time job and always had been. Hulst is basically in Shuhei Yoshida's role with an expansion being that he oversees PS Productions efforts as well.
Also, it does confirm a minor suspicion that Totoki basically spent the last few years in charge of SIE to understand the games business as a guy who came from the finance division. Basically being groomed to take over. Won't be surprised if Lin Tao follows in his footsteps with the bump to CFO.
Good step in the right direction. Now make him not in charge of first party games anymore, and we'd really be getting somewhere.
This is actually very good news and probably why there has been a bit of a step back from live service games in the last while. I think Herman really needed to answer to someone, and this will hopefully reel him in a bit.
Hulst is picking up a lot of the blame for the live service strategy but all these cancellations suggest whoever is making the decisions is not convinced by live service anymore either.
"Hulst will continue to lead PlayStation’s first-party"... Noooooooooo!
@Rjak Yeah that's unfortunate :/
It's about time for a Japanese to lead SIE again. I pray Nishino can do a good job like Ken Kutaragi, Kaz Hirai, or Shuhei Yoshida.
And I wish Japan Studio get a revival but if not then Team Asobi should get more budget and talents to handle classic Sony IP's.
But thank god Totoki isn't blind with what Hermen did with Bungie, Concord, and all the cancelled live service projects that wasted time and money. I think Hermen time at Sony isn't long. My guess at the time PS6 release, he probably got replaced or "retired" like Jimbo.
I guess we'll see how it goes from here onwards and it may take a while before the new leadership take effect. We might not even see these new changes at least until PS6
@Olmaz Yes, if Nishino would replace Hermen Hulst with Nicolas Doucet, PlayStation were prepared for the next couple of years.
Great news!
Sony will naturally spin it to make Herman look good but he has been at the forefront of a number of major failures recently and there had to be consequences for that.
In a normal job, he'd long since been fired.
@Max_the_German With Astro Bot success, i think Nishino wants Nicholas to keep leading Team Asobi to produce more bangers. After that, maybe Nicholas could get a promotion to lead SIE 1st party.
Now take him off of head of First Party Development and we’ll finally be getting somewhere!
Following this movement Sony stock hit a new record high in Japan so you decide if this is good or bad lol. The house is clean and organized now, let them cook.
Jim's lapdog still has too much power and say though.
Look at those two sleazy corpo mugshots.
Jesus, just get rid of him. Imagine if we squandered the fractional equivalent of billions of dollars doing our jobs. Lmfao even in failure, the executive class gets a golden parachute.
It wasn't his who did all this live service stuff it was also Jim Ryan as well who managed to get off lightly mainly due to his timing of his retirement. It seems he took the risk knowing he was leaving and thought well I've got nothing to lose I'll be gone it's whoever take the helm next who gets the blame.
Its also clear having 2 people running isn't working look at past Sony chiefs in charge Jack Tretton did it for years with SoA. Yes we had the PS3 network issues and he immediately apologised for that at E3 the moment he got on stage and turned it around after it's awful launch, and steered PS4 in to it's good era best to the PS2 (which was Sonys best years)
So a demotion for Hulst and a (sort of) promotion for Nishino, and the CFO moves up.
Good. I imagine Hulst is feeling grateful to just keep his employment there. Cleaning house.
It sounds like Hulst will do more of the same, except he'll have to ask Nishino permission to do it. Can't imagine the money dump of their GaaS initiative has anything to do with it...
@PuppetMaster Yes, Sony wants more Astro Bots. BUT Doucet is obviously fluent in Japanese, and he is a fan of the PlayStation firstparty games of PS1 and PS2. I don’t want that time back, don’t get me wrong. It’s just a more „PS games should be fun first and foremost“ approach, which I personally like.
@ThorsHammer well Concord was greenlit and hyped to heaven when Hulst was PlayStation Studios lead so will be interesting to see if anything actually changes. At the very least his top focus should be getting first party back to the top and he is more sackable if he makes mistakes.
@Rjak What is bad about him leading the first party? Guy knows his stuff.
Maybe I'm overestimating, but I believe Hulst went ALL IN with Concord. We know it was his baby internally, but I think he presented it like the second coming of Jesus, and for anyone who doubted him, well, all he ever said was "Trust me..". The man delivered in the past so, they did. And it cost them massively. And yes, he still is head of first party, but the buck will not stop with him anymore. At least that's what I think
@Petrecis24 I don't think that's the case. If Sony viewed Concord as a Hulst baby, they would fire him. Especially since he wasted billions of dollars to chase live service with Ryan.
This sounds more like "we tried double-CEO way, but it didn't work." And obviously. If you have two people in charge, how you can decide on the matters when they have opposing views?
If, for example, Hulst wanted to push towards PC day one releases day one to boost bottom line but Nishino was against it, who would decide?
So does this mean that Sony is finally..... healing?
Edit: Really wish they pushed Phantom Blade 0 to this year too.
People will spin this however they want based on what they already feel, but the reality is very little is changing. Hulst is still CEO of Studio Business Group but not of Sony Interactive Entertainment. On paper it’s a demotion, but he’s still running that arm of the business, all the studios. In reality very little is likely to change.
@Godot25 @Petrecis24 Even if Concord was Hulst’s baby it doesn’t matter that much in the wider perspective, what matters is their bottom line and the quarter Concord released they had record revenues and record profits.
Yes Concord was an embarrassment and an expensive mistake, but as a CEO you make a lot of different bets, you win some you lose some, what matters is their overall picture.
@themightyant I mean, the last section of the article does say that in all honesty.
@Oram77 Was more talking about all the comments, many of which are using emotion over logic.
The Japanese are finally taking back power!
@Max_the_German Nicholas Doucet is a wonderful creative, but what does he know about running a multi-national company? Suggesting he should have the CEO role is akin to making a craftsman be an architect. Different skill sets.
So - this isn't meant to be a hate-comment... but I think that for all the good Sony have done, they have absolutely crapped the bed (from a first-party) this gen. I know everyone will say but SM2 - GOWR - HFW ... and I honestly believe these were some of the least interesting games I've played (I would put them all below the third party games for quality and creativity). But... it's the complete lack of direction that I think Hermen needs to account for... I don't know if he's out of his league... or has made a business strategy error. I just don't agree with any of it. Edit - I actually think Hermen has spent too much of his time courting streaming services (the umpteen million show pitches... when I heard they were wanting to do a Gravity Rush show, I realized, they have NO F'ING IDEA ABOUT WHAT SONY DID TO THEIR OWN IP). Japan Studios... I pour a drink for you. In the same way they want to do a Days Gone show, whilst basically doing everything they can to destroy the game/studio that made it)
Edit - and to be clear - I DON'T think the error is in having live service games...I think it was always a matter of how many, and what.... and for that matter, who was going to make them. These parts of the management have been disaster after catastrophe.
And I know it's easy to blame JR... but if so, what was Hermen doing for the last 5 years? People wanted to believe in Hermen because he was a manager in a first party dev (rather than being "a corporate")... however.. Hermen got into gaming because that's exactly his background. He isn't a "gamer"... he wanted to be a business person. It's just that he actually isn't a particularly good leader.
The problem I have with PlayStation atm... they've actually got rid of just about anyone that knows how to make good games (not including Doucet... but then again, I think he's carved out his own small - creative niche - but I also suspect he couldn't manage his way out of a multi-billion-wet-paper-bag... "not that there's anything wrong with that"). The problem is there is no one that understands gaming AS WELL as understands business. You don't need to do both - but you need to listen. Sony's current pre-occupation with the Horizon franchise is a demonstration that Hermen ISN'T listening. He is trying only to build his own legacy.
I also think Nishino-san may be competent.... but he's no gamer either.
I wish they would have fired Hulst all together. He and Jim Ryan are tethered to this garbage live service push that's ruined SIEs first party output for years to come.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare great read! I would say you don't necessarily need to be a gamer to run Sony (it would help), but like you said they do need to LISTEN and read the room on what the consumers want.
For now I think that'll make little difference, but I'm hopeful that Sony will move more and more into a direction like Nintendo. Nicolas Doucet and the wonderful team asobi should paint a direction of where Sony is going and generally remain under Japanese control. 3rd party partnerships like sega, square-enix and Capcom need to be bolstered and their first party studios should be making the games they believe to be right.
@themightyant Hermen Hulst also started as the creative director of a PS studio. So being responsible for the creative vision of all the studios could be a first step, and later replacing Hulst entirely.
@themightyant people conflate making a good game with running a huge business. Likewise, people conflate wanting to run a big business with knowing anything about games (people used to blame JR of this). I think there's a third case - people who actually want to be both, but can't do either. The more and more I think, Hermen has demonstrated a desire to be the big businessman, and has shown no or little understanding of what makes a really good game.
I know it's easy to rag on the figure-head... but if not the head of PlayStation studios - then who? Who has responsiblity for all degradation of the brand? Is it terminal - no - but we live in a cancel-culture (regrettably) where public sentiment can turn on a dime... especially if people feel disconnected with their brand of choice.
Case in point - SM2 is releasing on PC... effectively now... and despite that Sony keeps saying PC is a growth market, what advertising or promotion has there been? Is that entirely Hermen's fault... no.. but he should have been lighting a fire (not cancelling projects that have run for 2-4 years, apparently without supervision).
@ThomasHL absolutely. The reality is that these plans were put into place long before Hulst was in charge, and he's been left to make the best of a crap situation. If anyone is to blame for the failed live-service push, it's Jim Ryan.
@Markatron84 Hermen was the HEAD OF PLAYSTATION STUDIOS from 2019. Effectively the same time JR became the CEO. How is it NOT his responsibility? There's this weird narrative, that JR was somehow 100% to blame for what happened... where was he getting advice from? I don't know a single CEO that wouldn't listen to his 2IC. Not necessarily agree - but they would definitely be a key factor. Also, Hermen has NEVER said anything to counter the direction... he needs to be judged on what he does, not what JR did (or did not do).
@Max_the_German Hermen Hulst was NEVER a creative director... he was a manager. His experience is in BUSINESS. Not game dev. His backround is "Master of Science in Industrial Engineering and Management". He was the managing director at GG - not a creative director. After his Masters he was working "Philips Electronics in strategic marketing", then was a "management consultant at Andersen Consulting". I don't believe he has any creative input into any game PERIOD.
@themightyant I'm sorry - in terms of "record profits" for the last quarter... don't you think Sony might know about balancing their books? Debt, and tax breaks, are often dispersed or held back depending on the need... let's see how things go come EOFY in April... when it ALL comes out.
I think there's a very good reason all of this is happening ahead of the full disclosure season. And I'd be interested to see if HH survives 2025. He might, but I don't think it will be because he's done a good job at projecting the value of Sony (as compared to buying up exclusivity).
To be fair - I also hold Phil Spencer to the same measuring stick. Spending 100B doesn't make you a brilliant manager... it just makes you one with a parent with deep pockets to spend your way out of trouble.
A lot of live service hate on this site. How difficult is it to understand that if Sony managed to create some live service blockbusters they would then have more leeway to fund the increasingly expensive Single player games you love so much but complain there are so few of? You should be hoping for their success in live service more than those who play it.
@Max_the_German Herman was never a CREATIVE director, he was a MANAGEMENT director on Killzone 1, 2, 3, Horizon etc. He has a degree in management. It's a different skill set. And before he became CEO he had several stepping stone jobs in between, you typically don't promote someone so far so fast, it's too big a step.
That's not to say Nicholas Doucet couldn't do this eventually if he wanted to, but he's mostly a creative he would need additional skills, and it would need to be MUCH further down the line after several jobs in between.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare I‘m sorry, was really thinking that he did creative work at Guerrilla, with Shadow Fall his last game in such a position.
Many would argue that there shouldn’t be managers without experience in creative work, but I don’t agree. While the creative output under Iwata was fine, the financial output wasn’t.
@Max_the_German I don't actually mind game studios having strong business managers...that goes for any business. It's when they start trying to shift the gaming landscape (and Hermen has definitely been puttin his political views down as part of his leadership), OR by taking their eye off the management of studios.
I actually don't know where Hermen falls, but I know it's NOT working. Sony's bottom line comes mostly from "doing nothing to rock the boat"... however, since HH took over at PlayStation Studios, all I've felt was a lot of rough seas, and not much forward motion from the corporation.
Doing nothing has never been a good business strategy in the long term. But literally crapping over your own studios is not DOING NOTHING. It's actually eroding the core value proposition of the entire corporation. Hell... I can buy an XBox if I just want to play 3rd party... or a PC... and soon a Switch 2. Why do I need to buy a PS6 if PlayStation look like they don't have 'their gamers' interest at heart? That's hyperbolic by the way - but it's meant to point out, that if Sony keep crapping on gamers, they might eventually realise they AREN'T mushrooms.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare while head of PlayStation Studios, I doubt Hulst was super eager to take all these studios renowned for and experts at crafting almost universally acclaimed single-player narrative-focused games and set them to work on live-service multiplayer games that had no expertise and experience in making. Also settle down with the caps buddy.
@Markatron84 why do you say that... what evidence do you have that Hermen wasn't actually 100% pushing the business decisions? I just get tired of people using JR as the patsy for everything, and HH just aparently gets a free ride.
Do you think JR actually gave a crap about reaching into individual studios to push things around? I am not sure that focuses the attention of CEO's.
As for the caps... yeh, I can't be bothered with the formatting...for me it's getting late on a Wednesday night. I think we can all forigive me my lazy shift-key. Buddy.
Let's hope they steer the Playstation Studios more towards epic SP games and less towards hunting GaaS Unicorns...
I'm not defending Hulst, but I seem to understand that a lot of Sony's obsession with Live Service Games stemmed from Jim Ryan.
I feel like Hulst is copping a lot of the blame that should be directed toward Jim Ryan.
Hulst isn't innocent by any means, but to lay the Live Service disaster at his feet is a bit unfair on him.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare
Ryan was focused on making money, saw live-service as the means to that end and gave no mind to how the studios were supposed to do it, just that they should. That's the problem. If he'd been more mindful of what the studios were good at making, he wouldn't have pushed for live-service to the degree that he did.
@Markatron84 I really despair at this view that Sony shouldn't be doing Live Service. It's not that they shouldn't - it's just that they shouldn't have sacrificed their SP focus to do it. JR definitely saw that Live Service is an important strategy that Sony had left on the table... have a look at what is making MS (XBox) money... it's Game Pass and Live Service... a LOT... (I couldn't resist)... of Live Service.
Sony are now predominantly a store-front... their first party games are a blip on their profit sheet. If they were ever to lose store-front monopoly, they might seriously be screwed... because they don't have a lot else going other than taking 30% off the top over every other deal that gets made (on the largest traditional console in town). Edit - of course PS+ (Extra/Premium) fall into the GP category... but the difference is, XBox put all their 1st party onto GP day one (on one tier or another).
People aren't buying SP games anymore (as a proportion)... the majority of the money is MP/GaaS. If Sony doesn't own that income source - then they get screwed if they lose the 30%. I am completely convinced that's the driver for this strategy - and I think JR saw it, because it's real. It's not that they're trying to build a new Fortnite - they're just trying to build a stable revenue source that isn't dependent on a monopoly.
Now... to be generous, I think HH also knows this.. I think all of PlayStation execs know their business model well. The problem is, how you execute. JR didn't execute squat... HH did... and it's how he executed the strategy that is the problem.
As it was - his elevation to co-CEO basically didn't change his job at all... it sort of wrapped in PlayStation Productions, but that was mostly his job anyway. So despite my CAPITALISATION, I don't have a problem with the overall Sony strategy - but I think it's execution was borderline criminal. Hence my focusing on Hermen - not what JR might have done.
Of course - this is all just my opinion, and everyone else can have their own opinion... it's just that I find it weird that people insist that the head of PlayStation Studios (HH) apparently had no power, and therefore we should all just be happy that JR is gone.
I am happy JR is gone, by the way, but I think the stench remains.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare Sony need both great creatives, which they have many of, and great businessmen, they can't do well without both.We don't need Herman Hulst to be a gamer, what he needs is to understand business and the industry.
Reading the comments section with all these armchair business takes is frankly hilarious. Most would run the company into the ground, ruling with their hearts not their heads, a sure fire route to disaster.
EDIT: And yes re: record profits it will be interesting to see the whole Financial Year. But trends are strong, Q1 and Q2 were up massively in terms of profit on top of record sales 9 quarters in a row. Feb 13 is Q3 reports, Q4 and FY will be in May.
Not good enough he needs to be removed completely he doesn't deserve to be anywhere near Playstation after what he's done
It is what it is.when you have 2 co ceo it feels a little weird.but PlayStation is unrecognizable these days.and they need to stop with the live services games.more single player games is welcome.word up son
@themightyant I agree - they need strong business people... especially those who know who to take advice from. I'd be interested to know who HH is taking advice from these days.
For me - I tend to look at what decisions have happened over the last 5 years, to see what was good for business. Unfortunately, I would say that PS+ (and the subsequent increases in subscription fees); as well pivoting to PC (which has been hit and miss) were the only 2 things. HD2 was definitely a win (seemingly accidental, but still, that's the nature of live service). Other than that... I can't really think of anything on the game side that wowed me. I did however see Sony double down on squeezing every-last-cent (that does feel like a JR thing). I also see a lot of un-forced errors that kinda don't make sense, unless it was someone making decisions because they didn't care/understand/weren't focused. To be fair - unlike 99% of people, I actually think a live service game in the GoW universe could have been fun... but I don't think that BluePoint should have been doing it. To me they should have farmed it out to a 2nd party studio that knew how to do live service.
I dunno - maybe I'm missing something - but what has HH's big successes been? I know that comes across as overly negative, but as someone that has a love for the company and its heritage, I see a lot of words, but not much action.
As someone who has some knowledge of Japan, and how their accounting works... I think they work very hard in terms of how to disclose things (much like all companies). There's nothing wrong with that - but their reporting is not exactly, transparent either. Edit - and yes, it's entirely possible for Sony to have a very strong bottom-line (G&NS is a bread-winner)... but given that first party sales made up of less than 10% of their operating income, it's also clear that they aren't depending on first party games. As I keep saying - the vulnerability of PlayStation is the fact that their income is based almost entirely on owning the store-front. Edit - there's a reason why MS is talking about other storefronts - because they know it's coming; and they want to make sure it affects other platform holders too; or more specifically, they can put GP on other storefronts. The risk is that by constantly messing up Live Service, they lose the opportunity to grow organic income, but also risk alienating the core gamer base...that and the risk that it might become more attractive for casual gamers to shift platforms; given that they play annualised games that can shift across platforms
Edit - also... Sony's financial year runs April to March... they report in May. What I'm not sure about is how the distribute monies between the parent company and the US-based subsidiary; and how they report across both). Most financial reporting does not go down to the level of granularity that allows people to understand how the business is really going. Likewise, the push to go vertical or across business group (stretching between G&NS / Events (e-Sports) / Productions / Distribution-Publishing ) also makes it very hard to track performance.
Gustav Herman Hulst's 'Concord,The Bringer of Low Player Counts'
Make PlayStation Japanese Again
@Brundleflies21 more like Herman Husks Concord heh…
But I actually enjoyed concord
@nomither6 brave - very brave. For me, Concord didn't do anything. But I also didn't understand the hate either. I just thought it was ....meh. The one thing I don't understand is why Sony was so focused on saving face, they didn't use Concord as a learning experience (to actually re-build). They can't do live service without bruises...but at the moment, any sign of a bruise, and they put the patient down.
While I am not a MS fan, the one thing I'll say is, they generally (Redfall not withstanding... and I suppose FO76 was before they bought Zenimax) allow studios some slack. Actually... now that I think of it... most of that slack was before Microsoft acquisitions. What do I know!
Well surely that’s good news
Oz_Who_Dat_Dare wrote:
And that is absolutely fine, to have a personal take. But you have to see it's not very representative of Sony's success. The reality is they have had MASSIVE first party success over the last 5 years. Just look at their game review scores, awards, sales, revenue. You are judging with your heart because YOU personally don't like those games.
More widely the trouble with articles like this, and most articles in general if i'm honest, is we don't have anywhere near enough information to have a fair and balanced take. We are mostly uniformed, and gamers love to assume they know it all and then project their own emotions into any issue.
e.g. there are still so many comments saying Sony cancelled Days Gone 2 when Bend never actually pitched it to Sony - one article based on conjecture sparked a hundred more and so misinformation spreads. Or gamers assuming Sony forced Naughty Dog to make a live service game when it was the studio that initially wanted to create something larger than a tacked on multiplayer game. For all we know it was Bluepoint who wanted to make a live service God of War, but no one thinks that is possible. The point is WE DON'T KNOW, but people project and assume and will attribute blame with little to no facts.
Some of this stems from the fact the industry is so closed, it doesn't talk openly, this means that most of the "news" is based on leaks, which is often misinformation. This is made worse because articles are written about other articles and it spreads like Chinese whispers getting more and more inaccurate with each retelling. Then gamers, especially in comments, come in with uniformed takes and fill the gaps with their heart, projecting their feelings into each topic. It just propagates more and more misinformation that festers.
@themightyant No... that's not true... because in the case of Spiderman, GoW, and Horizon... all three series sequels have sold LESS than the previous games. Did they flop - no... but they made less money. Part of that is just sequels. And yes, I agree - the impact is of course subjective. For me (and this is entirely subjective) - I found all three to be technically superior, but in terms of gameplay/story, inferior.
Also - if you're going to answer... please put your opinion about the games... I mean, this is a forum.
And yes - I agree entirely that people make assumptions about who did what (or who wanted what). However - it IS true that BluePoint had 2 years of supporting SantaMonica on GoWR (which I think gave them confidence)... but they have had zero experience actually making their own game, let alone a live service). It doesn't matter who pitched what - if I'm managing someone who pitched an idea they couldn't follow-through with, I'd ask who they are going to partner with; or I would ask, what is the opportunity cost (and risk) in greenlighting something.
But my point is - Sony don't make much money off of first party anyway. That's why they actually don't care that much (other than face). So the reality is that first party is small-fry in terms of bottom-line. If you take out die-hards (maybe the PushSquare type of people) and the casuals (that just played CoD / Fortnite / Siege etc)... what is left - and that is the most interesting question to me. Because the casuals don't care (they will go where their game is); die-hards will get angry (and think about first-party)... whereas it's the middle sector that is an unknown to me. If that middle sector (predominantly that play mostly 3rd party) is large compared to the die-hards (which I suspect it is), why would Sony invest money into anything other than live-service, and hence try to shift the casuals over to the die-hards. Assuming that MS / GP doesn't disrupt things more, and actually shifts gamers that mostly play 3rd party to the XBox (whatever that is) platform because GP negates the value of digital libraries.
That level of strategy is where I think everyone is guessing, because we don't have the market information; or the books that Sony uses to plan. I just keep saying, there's a reason why Sony's doing what it's doing. The strategy isn't wrong - but I think their execution just looks amateurish. And yes - that's my opinion.... and it's lucky that I don't run Sony.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare sequel selling lower than the previous iteration is 99% how the markets go. It’s like that for film, TV, games, etc. That’s not a barometer for success at all! Research shows that most of the time the sequel does lower numbers than the first outing. First outing is new and exciting. The sequel, people know what to expect.
@AhmadSumadi I agree... but what is the accepted fall-off?
@themightyant also - you didn't answer my question... what (in your view) are the successes of Hermen Hulst's time as head of PlayStation Studios? I am genuinely interested... I don't hear many positive things, but it's possible that I'm just selectively remembering. If I'm being honest, AstroBot is a clear one... but outside of that...
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare I think it was right for Bluepoint to be given the chance to make their own game, they had earned that right. But more importantly they reportedly wanted to.
How do we know Bluepoint couldn't make a live service game? Every studios that has ever made one had to do it for the first time, this idea that only studios that have already made a live service game can make live services games is utter nonsense. First time for everyone.
Though you would hope they would have hired some staff who had walked that walk before and knew some of the pitfalls. As well as utilise the PlayStation developer network to get assistance from studios like Bungie, Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Insomniac and other studios that have made online games before.
I don't think Herman needs "big successes" that isn't how executives are judged internally, they will look at spreadsheets and the overall bigger picture. (removed inaccurate info about third party content)
They need to fire Herman, he's been a disaster since taking over 1st party in 2019.
I wish I could lose my company a Billion Bucks and still get a paycheck.
@themightyant FF7 Rebirth hardly moved the needle (indeed you could argue that this + FF16 actually made SE go full-on multi-platform), Black Myth Wukong isn't an exclusive, Stellar Blade made a decent stab (not my style, but a lot of people enjoyed it.. especially for a young studio). Death Stranding 2 is a little premature .... given we don't even know when it will be released (they say 2025... but I'm not betting the farm on that one).
And I'm sorry - are you seriously saying that ANY studio can make a live service game?... even though the core coding framework to make MP games is quite different than SP games. Let alone the understanding of backend live data/network management (and not to mention the whole monetization aspect). Oh - I forgot... gameplay - level design - narative design....all of these are different in Live Service. And that it makes sense for Sony to give a small studio, with no MP/GaaS experience one of their most popular/valuable IP? Because they wanted? Er....?
Also - who said the head of PlayStation studio's had any responsibility for 3rd party? PlayStation Studios is only those things published by Sony. Exclusives yes - but not 3rd party. The one thing I don't know is where PS+ fits into their line managment in terms of responsibility (after the shift-up, I thought that Nishino-san actualy had responsibility for all the network services including PS+). Edit: I will add however that PlayStation Studios most likely did have responsibility for co-investment into 3rd Party games... though this isn't something that's generally discussed in public.
Actually - re-reading your comment... what are you talking about???
So Hulst is the bad guy for both approving the reviled live-service games AND canceling the reviled live-service games?
I hope Herman appears as dlc for my fabourite new game Sniper Elite Resistance, much like the fuhrer mini game 👍
Good now get rid of Harmen, i hate him, he ruined Japan Studio, i hate dutch people
Oz_Who_Dat_Dare wrote:
I don't see it on any other console... Not every exclusive has to be paid. The fact is Sony were courting Chinese studios to get their games on PlayStation, as they did with Genshin, Honkai, F.I.S.T. Wuthering Waves, ZZZ, Lost Soul Aside, Anno: Mutationem, Phantom Blade Zero and many more. They helped those games come to PlayStation early and were rewarded with exclusives in most cases, even if timed, and potentially unpaid.
Yes ANY studio can make a live service. Whether they do it well is a different story. How do you think Bungie started out? Single player studio. How about Epic games. Single player studio.
EVERY studio that has ever made a multiplayer or live service game has had to do it for the first time and learn. Yes there are different design considerations but it's not some impossible challenge. At the end of the day it is still about creating a compelling and addictive loop for players that will keep them coming back for more.
Why do you think it's impossible for a studio who has never made a multi-player or live service to make one when we are surrounded with successful live service games from studios who at one point had to make one for the first time. It isn't witchcraft.
FYI I looked this up and I think you are right about services, and third party that's Business Group (Nishino), I'll remove that as it's inaccurate, but everything else I mentioned falls under Studio Group (Hulst) including PlayStation Productions film and tv etc. and as you said probably second party (partially funded third party games).
Honestly, I think he needs to go completely. There are better candidates for his job, people who wouldn't be - even partially - responsible for losing the company billions of dollars and years of wasted effort due to mismanagement. Hulst may have picked up the torch from Jim Ryan, but Hulst was the one who ran with it.
Dual leadership never seemed like a good idea. A little disappointed they went with the number cruncher instead of the creative but it's an understandable decision.
@BacklogBrad They are both number crunchers, Hulst was a Managing Director at Guerilla, he's a businessman... as he should be in this role.
“ This year will see the release of Ghost of Yotei and Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, “
Are we really expecting both of those to release this year? Really? I feel like we’ve just seen Ghost and it usually takes games a few years to release. And Kojima can seemingly do whatever whenever he wants.
I mean if both of them do release, and GTA6, that’s certainly going to make 2025 look like a whole lot better year than 2024, no matter how many awards Astrobot won.
I’m over Bond villain Hulst.
@rjejr They're both currently announced for 2025, yeah.
@rjejr Death Stranding 2 is reportedly in crunch period, so it’ll almost assuredly be released this year. This indicates that the build of the game is very close to completion and they’re planning on hitting a specific date that we don’t know yet. I expect the press cycle to kick off as soon as Sony says something. Next State of Play, we’ll have a deluge for that one for sure, and probably Yotei.
I expect Yotei is in a good place or they’d not have announced it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony has more first party releases slated for this year too. Intergalactic may well be a 2025 holiday release for all we know. Got to remember we’re in an age where Astro Bot was revealed a few months before released. Hulst likes the right to the chest method of announcing games.
Hopefully the shake up helps us to see some excitement in the pipeline again. The Hulst co-CEO era was frustrating for fans. Despite the high profits, I’m sure the board sees that a future continuing in the same direction may be tenuous for consumers.
@nomither6 I've a degree in uttering terrible jokes. Hence the zero likes!! 😥
@Oram77 Never push games forwards release them when ready.
@Flaming_Kaiser Kingdom come 2 got pushed forward FYI.
@breakneck crazy the first comment was exactly what i was going to comment on lol. clearly they are spreading themselves too thin, and one can fully 100% give their all on separate jobs , but it sounds like they'll still communicate with each other for advice. i feel like this structure will help in the long run. and i'm some one that has been super patient , but i feel like they really need to start showing off some of these games or even plans for games.
i feel like if they have a state of play that reveals a new trailer with game play of wolverine with a release date , a 2nd intergalatic trailer , a full reveal of corey's new ip ( maybe release date ) , a full reveal of firesprites no so secret until dawn project, and maybe the san deigo studios "secret" ip ( which was rumored to be uncharted related). i feel like people would be going crazy
He's clearly done enough damage, time to go back to doing what they did best...
But Hulst is the problem.
This guy should be terminated from any and all playstation positions.
Sony have hit the panic button!
FINALLY they have found some common sense! Herman was as obsessed with the stupid ridiculous company killing live service game idea as Ryan was! They should fire him let alone demote him.
If they don’t take full control in Japan of PlayStation, reverse a LOT of what the American team have done, they are finished. Releasing a 700 dollar console you had to look to see the differences with wasn’t a genius idea, and with games costing so much they need to sell sell sell, not chase in app purchases.
PC and handheld gaming far exceeds Sonys market, and is growing exponentially.
@nomither6 This! Doesn’t matter if they had a Brit running it again, although Ryan is useless IMO, moving the entire PlayStation operation to America, closing other offices globally, makes it an American company! If people wanted that they’ll buy an Xbox.
I hope this will turn the ship around for them. IMO they should move the PlayStation HQ back to Japan and lay off a load of staff and shrink the American office down. Go back to their routes.
@somnambulance @get2sammyb " announced for 2025 "
Since when has that ever meant anything in the video game industry? Not for at least 20 years. I don't think I need to list any prominent examples for either of you two, you're more than aware.
Appreciate the replies though, I did forget about "crunch time" for DS2. I thought the industry had moved away from that but what do I know. Not much apparently.
Honestly I could see DS2 releasing this year, in a near complete state that would only take about 6 months to clean up after, but Ghosts seems like a "shoot for September, release the following March" kind of situation to me.
But hey if the industry wants to start announcing games 6 months before release I am ALL FOR IT. Wasn't that what E3 was for in June, to announce games for the next 12 months, releasing before the next E3; not showing the same games over and over at 3 or 4 or 5 E3s in a row. And yes I am talking about Sony.
Oh and it's not just games obviously, I am sick of hearing about Avatar 3, 4 and 5 as well. I think all of them were supposed to have released already. 😝
@S1ayeR74 absolutely . their move to cali was their downfall, playstation needs its roots back.
@Brundleflies21 i know the feeling! 😂
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare yea it’s weird how they were so quick to shutdown concord but let foamstars & destruction all stars have a run
@rjejr I don’t mind them announcing games several years in advance. No issue with me. My issue is the years without major releases or timelines. The last 3 years, I’ve been trying to cut back in my purchasing back and budgeting my gaming more wisely. This year, that’s impossible. How am I supposed to budget time or money to an industry that has no idea when things are going to release? Usually release dates were semi-reliable, but we’ve apparently given up on them now. I can’t imagine a film industry where films are announced two weeks before launch. Why are we there with games? Lol. It feels like we had as much transparency in the industry in the magazine days as we do now! Maybe less. I wish Sony would figure this out because it seems like Xbox and Nintendo are on a better trajectory with how they communicate.
I might catch some flak for this, but I'm starting to put a lot more trust into Asian influence in gaming, than Western. I feel like the East still gets gamers and I have absolutely no idea what is going on there in boardrooms in the Western hemisphere. This isn't new, I've always been a huge JRPG fan but the chasm between the two different approaches, seems to grow every year and not in a good direction. Indies are another story, but big corp has lost it's way.
I'm glad. He was the wrong person for the job.
Thank god so he can stop making Horizon sex shop now
@S1ayeR74 Playstation's roots were always in being a global console and being the best place third parties. Even Layden said this recently in an interview.
@twitchtvpat They do. They need some release dates for especially Yotei (wouldn't be surprised if they're waiting for AC Shadows to launch) and DS2 (Kojima said they had an internal release date set but apparently they've entered the crunch period recently). Also, would like a re-reveal of Wolverine and Marathon with game play.
@breakneck sounds good to me , i feel like they are still aiming towards 2025 with ghosts , but they don't want to do a solid date till they can 100% say yes this game is coming out then , which is respectable i'd rather that then people complaining about a few delays. also death stranding release date would be nice. i still have games i gotta get back to and finish up anyways , so not super worried about games coming out any time soon.
@twitchtvpat There is also the looming shadow of GTA VI which I think has the entire industry (except Nintendo) holding off on announcements. If it gets delayed into 2026 then we'll see a big empty patch during that period or a lot of quick reveals and releases.
Finally, I guess Sony got tired of losing money!
Well Mr Hulst I think it’s time you sorted your studios out as the pipeline is looking thinner than I ever remember for Sony first party studios.
Ironic it’s at the same time Microsoft actually gaining a pipeline!
It’s not just concord that has cost you money, all the other cancelled Gaas games and bungie must amount to $5b. That could have been quite the investment in new games. Even at $500m a piece that would’ve been 10 new AAA games, or 20 at $250m. Instead it’s money down the drain.
@breakneck I never said it wasn’t a global console, that doesn’t change the fact it being run by Americans has damaged it. And Sony were stupid to put a man as obsessed with live service games as Ryan as joint CEO. Hopefully with a Japanese in charge it’ll change for the better. Nintendo used its strengths and roots and thrived, Sony has tried to change those and suffered.
This could go either way. We will see in the next few years.
I assume live service ganes were accounted for, singleplayer ones still have their budgets. Like any cancelled projects. They prep/change others mid development. I assume staff considered it and then we hear in articles way later.
Hulst being in that position when he was a director and now 'that' role' (at least by name, he probably can handle it but still just very different that's all in how they sound it's not like some aren't capable), I mean if he is capable enough to do so sure.
I think most live service games were still kept around since Jim Ryan and they wanted to see how some would go and just went hmm we may just remove these over time. That's sort of the impression I have. Some started years ago after all and whatever deals well 'when they did' has me questioning with some. Who approved them and when.
It doesn't change the fact that many still maintaining oversite over them still seem a bit incompetent and don't have an eye for how they are handled/the worth of them in competition. I've seen better PS3/360 shooters or racing games of the PS2 era that even if marketing wise didn't still had better ideas in them to compete, nowadays competition is the weakest I've ever seen it.
It's like hiring people that grew up in the PS3/360 era and replicating it 2 gens later or people not games literate and such. Or under skilled staff. Or just other factors of execs/publishers demands and the games are a mess of what formatting as if Anthem or Battlefield 2042 weren't clear of 'do this, no this' and I don't blame the staff just being sick and tired of the constant changes.
PS3/360 was one thing but the competition, less staff, better and more talented staff, made better products with better balance of elements, interesting tones/stories, gameplay still fair of transitioning PS2 era design or it's own PS3 era fill (many I find boring but it is what it is)
Nowadays it's the same types of games just graphics, weaker gameplay and worse modes/other priorities and I'm like this is boring, these games are easy to pick out of lacking depth or competing elements or 'oh people have their comfort game they put hours into let alone treat gaming as no different to a movie' they watch it and move on and jump back into the game when they feel like it XD
Duh video game industry they aren't all us hardcore players with a different extent to it all and games flopping easy, I or many others don't even have to try guessing is so easy at this point how can they in the industry side of things miss it yet players know better.
It's the student is smarter then the teacher or the management are so stupid mentality, the teachers go fine I'll follow along regardless of how they see it or quit and know how stupid it all is. XD Us customers being the students finding it hilarious.
If Nishino is good enough for this and not just another financial type they put in place good if he is one of them, then well I'm just going to continue not caring about PlayStation like I have since 2017. Sure that period has others at the top but the IPs even if a 'necessary' direction change to cinematic games more doubled down.
I still think the House/Layden era were still a bit eh. You got the niche games sure but at the same time we still go a lot of 'oh Last of Us/Uncharted are successful' make more cinematic games to fit in line with those.
Part 2:
I already didn't care for them. Uncharted was good but 'besides being a cinematic adventure movie type game'. The rest just put a bunch of open world or other genre/elements I already don't like so regardless of Last of Us being a horror game or Horizon/Ghost of Tsushima being open worlds or whatever I already find them boring in format. Worlds look nice but the gameplay just isn't for me. Gravity Rush 1 intrigued, 2 didn't as much.
Spiderman 2018 was boring, Sunset Overdrive was more fun and creative regardless of different platform of Xbox One or PS4 the design decisions still counted per studio/ideas/whatever Spiderman does/Marvel demanded.
So to me whoever is in charge, I still have no interest in PlayStation from Ratchet/Sackboy/Astro/Gran Turismo directions the IPs I 'would' have cared about' to the other IPs I don't in the slightest.
Bend will make another game that's inline with the others like Days Gone did regardless so I don't care and Bluepoint IF they follow suit I also won't care what they make besides the live services they were put on to make. I doubt anything that original will they? I hope they do but I don't trust studios, they make the same games so why would I have hope for something I know won't happen anyway.
Besides Ratchet, Sackboy and Astro, I doubt we get anything else kid friendly or a non cinematic linear/open world 3rd person game and GT will be the only different regardless of being a racing game. I doubt Bluepoint make a 1st person game or puzzle game or whatever else and just another boring cinematic 3rd person insert genre in there with a whatever story/fine visuals and still play boring.
So all these studios can keep going but I still don't care for what a single one of them makes. XD
@SuntannedDuck2 That was .... quite a ride.
@Gigawatt-Kapow it's thoughts, not good, not bad points, but thoughts.
I don't write comments for people with twitter/text attention spans. You can't say some things with that length (as if more then 2 posts wasn't clear for some on there).
People read an article or they comment.
@SuntannedDuck2 indeed.
@Oram77 Yes because it was ready to release. They knew they have a quality release. Most pushed forward games are a broken mess which they can "patch" because why give your customers a working product when they pay full price.
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