Marathon Maker Thinks Players Are Too Toxic for Proximity Chat in New PS5 Game

I’d imagine that’s a safe assumption.

Hey, Ziegler...

Laaaame! Just let me insult them back

I am shocked, SHOCKED I say that this would be a factor. SHOCKED.

People: what a load of ********.

@LifeGirl or maybe people could just not be... you know *hit to each other, just a thought.

Proximity chat would make multiplayer games so much better
Here's a solution if you shouldn't like it. Disable or mute.

“I don’t think anyone really has a good solution to that just yet."

It's called an on/off toggle, my dude. Create a proximity chat setting with three options: public, squad only, and off. Saying the lack of one is because of "toxicity" is a bull**** excuse.

If it had proximity chat and catered to the ultra hard-core pvp scene, Marathon might actually have a niche and might survive.

@LifeGirl Unironically agreed. People are too soft now lmao

@LifeGirl I don't know what that thing you wrote was but I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess you aren't in fact the first and only person on planet earth who wants to be treated like s*** in a video game, on the web, or anywhere else.

@LifeGirl Well, actually no. People in real life physical spaces treat each other much better than people online do. It's a form of minor sociopathy- when a human being is in front of you and you can see them your brain registers them as human and you end up treating them with basic human decency. Too many people are incapable of making that realisation during online interactions, and so behave much worse. You don't need "censorship" to make people behave better. It is not censorship for online spaces to expect people to treat each other the way they would if they were speaking face to face.

As for a toggle to enable or disable this- how would you implement it? Do other players know if you've turned this off? Will they then find other ways to harrass you for that choice? Does the way disabling this feature effect communication give your team a disadvantage (and thus create more toxicity for players choosing to disable proximity chat?)

@PaperAlien There is more chance of pigs discovering how to manifest the avian powers of Red Bull than human beings suddenly treating each other with respect on the internet.

@Wiceheid If someone is THAT worried about avenues of toxicity because of a proximity chat option, maybe they shouldn't be playing extraction shooters at all. Maybe Bungie should stop trying to cater to them at the expense of a more niche audience.

As for the unknown factors of proximity chat, isn't the mystery of that part of the fun of going into a hostile environment and not knowing who's out there and who might be listening? I don't play multiplayer games regularly and even I can appreciate the thrill of that experience.

I remember playing Phantasy Star Universe many years ago and I was in a group with two American kids who constantly freestyle rapped - very badly. So yeah, I know how annoying this stuff can be. Perhaps that rap experience is one of the reasons I hardly play online games, come to think of it. 😂

@RBMango I don't think you understood my comment. The points I made were about implementation of a feature and how that implementation would effect the games community, which is a developer focussed view of a proximity chat toggle feature. Choosing not to play extraction shooters is not really an option for Bungie when deciding how this feature should work.

Who needs voice chat when you can teabag?

HOME started with proximity chat on the PS3. It did not go well and was pulled. People.

Aaaah, to live in the 2010 CoD:MW2 lobbies again. Those were the days, when some 12 year old screaming racial epithets would get absolutely dunked on, and maybe learn something about being a decent human being. Good times. A shame that those that think they know better are preventing the moral development of arseholes these days, but what can you do...

@Wiceheid I understood your comment, and I think Bungie is being incredibly foolish if that's the mindset they're approaching Marathon with. Is the risk of "toxic" behavior in certain situations worth removing a standard feature of extraction shooters entirely? I don't think so. Trying to figure out the ins and outs of the gameplay and social implications of a proximity voice chat toggle seems a complete waste of time and antithetical to the genre's appeal. People will always find new ways of being dickheads, so removing proximity chat entirely at the expense of the game's tense atmosphere seems counterintuitive.

As an example, Battlefield 2042 tried this initially with the removal of scorecards because it didn't want players to feel bad if they were doing terribly in a match, and it got lambasted by its player base because it removed vital information to appease a subset of sensitive players.

Wow if only there was a feature that could make it so you couldn't hear those players anymore if you didn't like the toxicity...some sort of mute button...

How about proximity chat with a player rating system?

If someone is rated to be consistently toxic by other players, then their character gets a pink pacifier in the mouth, a diaper on their characters bottom, and a voice filter that makes them sound like a toddler. Problem fixed.

just instead of having the actual chat, replace it with some generic voice over... is the point hearing opponents tactics, or just their positions?

@RBMango Proximity chat is a feature that works better in theory than in practise, precisely because of how people behave on the internet. Running a community (which is what anyone running a multiplayer game is doing) requires deciding standards for behaviour that are enforcible. The general situation we have is that those standards are lower in online spaces than in face to face ones. It is not foolish to think "well how can we prevent our new games community devolving into the endless stream of slurs that every other online shooter has become". It's not a waste of time to think about how the gameplay and social features of a game will shape it's community, it is something that not enough game developers are putting thought into which is why so many games communities are cess pits where people behave in ways that they never would in a face to face interaction. It is in fact crucial especially with how much more focus certain interests now have in how online interactions work. And if a feature isn't working in practise how it is in theory, then whether or not it's actually working at all is debateable (especially if the problem is the community abusing the feature to misbehave online)

I am genuinely fascinated by how many people seem to think that Bungie and other developers just shouldn't think or do anything about how people behave in their games community. Especially as you all seem to acknowledge that well adjusted people in face to face interactions or phone calls etc don't behave anything like the way online gamers do. Why are we so opposed to dragging online gamers up to the same basic standards of decency and civility that western civilisation agreed upon decades ago?

@Wiceheid I strongly disagree that proximity chat is a feature that works better in theory than in practice. It does wonders for specific games, and removing it entirely from Marathon seems like a bad call if they're going for an extraction shooter when a large part of it is PvP interaction. I agree that developers should consider how the gameplay and social features of a game will shape its community, but removing a basic feature of extraction shooters in an attempt to combat "toxicity" seems like an inconsiderate solution. Why is Bungie bothering to make a PvP game in a more hardcore genre at all if they're going to be THIS afraid of players being dickheads? They should remove the in-match chat box and the ability to crouch so people won't teabag at that point.

I really don't game enough online to understand all the different forms of voice chat. Though most of my gaming these days is I suppose technically online in Fortnite, which I think I just have on mute everybody, myself included, and Infinity Nikki, which I suppose is single player online, if that is a thing.

I do think these type of team games require voice chat for teammates, SPlatoon 1 & 2 really could have used it for teammates, but not sure I need to, want to or care to listen to anyone else. Does feel like a mute options button - all, friends only, teammates only - could work.

This article does remind me of why I don't voice chat w/ strangers though. 😂

Yesshh. I'm just glad this guy didn't direct my favorit or any fighting games cause i'm sure he will removed taunt button or banned anyone who do tea-bagging just because "it's toxic" or "hurts someone feelings" 😁

But what a weird decision considering the game is about people shooting each other to win something lol.

Having proximity chat in MAG was great. Once I snuck into a base, was killing the enemies one by one and heard the panic chatter “I’ve just been killed by so and so”, first time I’d actually thought that I was good at a PvP game.
I don’t really remember any toxicity, even on that occasion although they were annoyed but then again the average age of a MAG player was (I’m guessing) a little higher than most MP games.

Miss MAG, such a good game.

Speaking from my experience of over 1000 hours on Hunt: Showdown, proximity chat is mostly fun and sometimes hilarious. The only times someone has been truly toxic towards me was when I queued with random team mates I've been properly yelled at for various silly reasons, it's mad.

My point here being is that Bungie won't implement prox chat because they think it will be too toxic yet you can still queue with random players that I assume will be able to use a mic. And you will eventually run into a team mate that will give you all sorts of abuse as soon as they perceive you to be playing the game wrong.

So if they are removing prox chat for that reason you probably ought to remove team chat as well, right?

Edit - Also, to add to what Nepp said, how about implement prox chat but make it clear to players that it can be muted. Or make it mute as a default so players have to actively opt in to it.

They aren't wrong but that's why games should just use a toggle/mute option. You can't force people to be nice to others especially in a genre where the objective is usually killing the other player. Look at SWATing, it's an extreme outcome but competitive play often brings out aggressive behavior in some people. It's one of many reasons why you shouldn't be talking to strangers online to begin with, let alone talking smack to them. The last time I was in a lobby like that a bunch of Italians started singing to me then I started hearing instruments. There must have been about ten of them there taking turns between rounds, just passing the controller around. Good memories, good tunes too.

Want to create a less toxic voice chat experience?
1 - make it mandatory to also have a webcam on to use voice chat.
2 - setup an algorithm, much like is used in Google Meets or MS Teams that recognizes the user face and zooms in on it. No facial recognition = no voice chat.
3 - apply a default, non-adjustable filter that makes everyone appear to be wearing a French maid outfit on cam.
4 - make the cam of whoever is talking appear in the top right of the screen.

The majority of people that talk smack do so because they know they can't be seen, so make it mandatory for them to be seen. Add in something that makes them, and everyone else, look stupid, and you'll find toxic twerps either won't want to be on cam or it will appear so absurd that no-one will take them seriously.

You can't win. If you don't like the game ur toxic and if u play the game ur toxic. 😂

Or add the option to turn it off.

If it’s an 18 then who cares, let people have the option.

We’ve gone soft as a society.

Nah, compared to the toxicity that's going on in Bungie the voice chat is tamer than a Nun

He's absolutely right about that.

@SleepyNick First time I played Hunt I got killed by someone sounding like Donald Duck and when I shot him he even said ow in his voice, one of the best moments in my gaming experience dx

@Perturbator I actually think that'd be a great idea, so long as it couldn't be abused? (Like, by people referring to another player constantly as 'toxic' to get them purposely babied up, even if innocent).
But to actually create or have some form of visual 'punishment' be implemented for people who're being abusive would be pretty good!

The comments section in this article successfully solved the issue, but we're to believe that the developer couldn't? Come on. It has to be a cop-out.

Hey Bungie, if you cannot implement on/off button, you should better scrap whole Marathon..

Opt in, opt out. Easy. Disclaimer, by opting in youre gonna hear something offense. Click here if you agree to hearing something possible offense. Click here of youre not. Done

@J2theEzzo It would have to be based on a large number of bad ratings over some time, I would think.

Simpler would be just to deny the toxic player any sort of chat, but that wouldn't be as funny.

they really want this game to flop as if it isn’t already on life support before release

Here's a thought. You can turn it off.

Better yet, playstation has parental control features that turn it off automatically.

Marathon maker is not a gamer, true gamer survive the xbox 360 voice chat era, that's how they make life long friends 👻

But seriously, just gave gamers the option to mute voice, why everything has to be "safe". Heck even nintendo got voice chat for every games now with switch 2.

Promixity, limited options, or whatever there is solutions.

Making it safe is a bit eh, like people want 18+ lobbies for themselves sometimes.

Other times team work games just aren't ideal for modes. Like it happens.

People that want to say whatever or think a certain way sure, but safeness is a bit hmm and they should know better as developers what goes on besides in their offices how people play games online and what to make their games around then just money.

@LifeGirl But people do treat each other with respect. It just depends on where you look.

Nobody ever talks in video games anymore everyone is hiding in third party programs and party chats so the title reads like it was made by someone who just got transported from 2010, last time i heard anything remotely "toxic" in a game chat was probably in 2013

Eh I agree but also let it be an option