Poll: Can a Game's Brutal Difficulty Put You Off Playing It?

I bounced off Nioh for this reason. Harder than any FromSoft game I've played.

Back when I had more free time I would tough it through a game. Now, I’ll play on Normal or hard until it annoys me and then I’ll turn down the difficulty and rush through the game.

Yes for me. I just don't have the time to dedicate to mastering a single game's brutal difficulty. In my opinion, difficulty settings should always be there for those who need/want them. Most games that do this will even state which difficulty setting is the developer's recommended/preferred choice, and I see nothing wrong with going this route.

I don't mind difficulty, having a challenge can be fun. My problem is my hand and eye co-ordination is horrendous, so parrying windows and sometimes reacting to things can cause me difficulty. Reason I bounce off most soulslikes.

Voted the free time option. Back in the day I didn't care but as responsibilities have increased I tend to shy away from games where I can't tone the difficulty down. Similarly get selective about what open world games I'll take on too.

I used to be against games that had crazy difficulty cause I didn't like the idea of spending so much time on one boss.

But nowadays, where I'm really starting to embrace games that have more difficulty and require more skill cause besting the challenge is oh so rewarding.

I love these games, that feeling of accomplishment after a tough boss, what a rush. Only DLC boss that bugged me was Artorias and that jumping maniac in DS3 DLC.

Don’t have time so if the game has normal difficulty that’s what Ill play first, doesn’t have to be easy difficulty

I like a challenge, but usually moreso through clever design and interesting game mechanics. Not so much from having enemies that are damage sponges or who have a half-dozen one-hit kill moves. I only get to play a handful of hours per week, so I want to feel like I'm making real progress.

It can. Hollow Knight is my case in point. I paid for the full game but will never get to play half of it because its just beyond my skill level.
I love and have 100% completion on all FromS games (ER DLC to come) but I would vote for them having a difficulty option in the menus - after all no one loses out do they? There literally is no downside.

Yes, the reason I haven't touched Bloodbourne or the Dark Souls games are because of the difficulty, same for Nioh. The only reason I put 90 hours into Elden Ring was because of the summoning totems which meant I could stay back and cast spells whilst the other two guys did the heavy work.

I know people will just say "git gud" but it's not that simple, I don't play games for a challenge, I like no aggro whilst I play games and with the amount of games I play per year i don't want to spend hours and hours replaying bosses and areas. I'm not saying I want it easy peasy either, I play my games on normal which most of the time gives the right amount of challenge. If normal is too hard then I don't have to worry as I can put it into easy and if normal is too easy then I can either put it on hard or equip armor/weapons in game that make me weaker. But having no options at all is a big turn off for me, if it wasn't for difficulty options and helpful armor sets then I wouldn't have completed my game of the year so far, Stellar Blade.

That's the difference adding difficulty options can make, going from a big turn off to loving the game. I also believe including difficulty options will mean more sales as the game then becomes more accessible to more players.

Yes it can. While I am all for the "Git Gud" feelings, my life with gaming now doesn't want a challenge. I used to, but now I prefer a relaxing gaming session with less frustration and more enjoyment. Nowadays I'd rather run through a game and enjoy it instead of the constant deaths and restart from.checkpoint, especially in games that repeat the same dialogue after every death or restart.

I don't think developers of games like Elden Ring, Bloodbourne etc should make games easier as it's my choice to play difficult games or not and I'm definitely not entitled enough to demand that developers cater for me.

Absolutely love them.. if they're well designed. Without strategy, puzzles, technique, or mechanical challenge I feel I may as well read a book or watch a show. Mechanical challenge particularly is an artform in itself. Sekiro is an absolute masterpiece in this regard, pushing you beyond what you thought your hands were capable of. Secret about souls games (maybe sekiro aside) is they're not actually that hard. They just require patience, resilience, and learning enemies. If you repeat battles enough you can chop down enemies you previously found impossible without thinking. You just have to keep at it and you will improve. I can play dark souls now with my eyes closed, it becomes instinct.

Bounced off Sekiro about half way through because it felt like I had to do it the way the game decided and I had very little agency. Platinumed Bloodborne because it’s a fantastic game and I wanted to see everything. I’m sure that’s going to be the case with ER DLC

I don't know how anyone could buy a FromSoftware game and expect to stroll through it. Even though I got stuck in DS3 and stopped playing because of the difficultly, I never thought for a minute there should be an easy mode. No way should there be an easy mode. I knew exactly what I was buying into.

Tunic on new game plus was way too easy. Depends on the game and how difficulty is implemented

This is a weird question for me. Yes, difficulty can make me stop playing a game, but it’s not the game’s fault. It’s a skill issue. Even in cases of severe BS, I’ll either power through and never play it again, or I’ll play something else. This shouldn’t even be a debate, it’s a dev’s choice how hard it is.

Also, Changing the difficulty isn't the only option to make the game easier. There's no need for From Software to change the enemies move patterns or even the amount of enemies in certain areas. All they need to do is add a enemy health/damage slider, so 100% for the usual difficulty and for those wanting it to be easier they can lower the percentage, I've even seen some games have the option to turn off damage altogether for those that just want to explore and see the story.

For all those looking for an easy ride just play a Naughty Dog game or a walking simulator. The sense of accomplishment in FS games is unequalled elsewhere, I couldn't even finish Sekiro after 150 hours' play because the final boss was so hard and that's fine.

Where is the answer if it's hard in a fair way?

I love me a good challenging game as long as it is fair - which is obviously subjective - and for me the Soulsborne games have always been fair with learnable mechanics and the ability to tailor a build to my needs. A good example of this is with SoTE the first 'boss' you meet is destroying most people but if you grab a few of the blessings the Black Knight becomes much more manageable.

I don’t really look at it in terms of difficulty but length. At least with the “difficult” games I beat - Elden Ring, Returnal and Demon’s Souls Remake - it was simply a matter of repeating and repeating until you were ready to progress (although the repeating part was in fact about making progress as well).

I really learned it’s just a different way of looking at games. Your goal for a particular day might not be beating an end boss but upgrading your character or learning stuff. In the end the bosses are most of the times very beatable.

@Silenos Yeah, but what’s easy anyway? Doesn’t pumping 150 hours of “walking” into Death Stranding come down to the same as developing 150 hours into your souls character which makes you beat bosses rather easily?

I beat Elden Ring twice (it was my first souls game) and although it was difficult, I still enjoyed it because the environmental storytelling, lore and world brought it all together.

Enter Shadow of the Erdtree. Beyond being brutally difficult to the point of unfair, it's just not an enjoyable experience because I feel there is a major lack of motivation. We are dropped into the Realm of Shadow. No context. There is almost no environmental storytelling, the lore is almost nonexistent. You wander from one dungeon to the next with no real reason why. It just feels like a shadow (no pun intended) of the base game. I've explored all over and feel no sense of wonder, awe. Nothing.

I generally like difficult games, elden ring, ds3 and the like. That said I’ve definitely not finished a few games due to the difficulty, bloodborne being one of them. Still love it though and find myself going back to it from time to time even though I never beat it.

I don’t really have free time but for me I feel like the systems in many of the “get gud” games aren’t fun. For instance I don’t enjoy dark souls because combat feels clunky to me. Meanwhile I enjoy Bayonetta or Dragons dogma or Nioh because the combat feels better. All of those games can be punishing but if I am having fun playing then it is more about improving my skill. If I am not, then it is a chore.

With Souls-Likes the difficulty is not only expected, but I enjoy the challenge they present. However, because of this I tend to play all my other games on medium, sometimes even easy depending on my mood, as they present a welcome break from From Software's and other Soul-Likes which require my full attention. Most other games outside of the genre that I've tried on hard difficulty are woefully unbalanced and just don't work.

Bottom line is Soul-Likes is a genre all on its own and it isn't going anywhere. Miyazaki has already stated, quite clearly, that he has no intention of changing the From formula. If you don't like them then don't play them. It's a pointless discussion and those begging for an easy mode are just shouting at the clouds at this point.

@Silenos So you put 150 hours into a single player game and didn't complete it because of its difficulty? That right there should be a great example of why Difficulty options are needed, especially for people who like to complete games otherwise that's 150 hours of their life they could have spent actually completing other games.

I don't shy away from them because sometimes I just fancy playing a game that is challenging. But I will say with limited time I don't tend to play too many. Maybe one or 2 tough games a year. I also don't mind going backwards and forwards to a game over the course of a few month. I don't feel like I need to finish a game quickly

Personally nothing can ever really put me off cuz I'm too prideful to accept defeat. No matter how frustrating I would still have a drive to beat the game.

Anyway I appreciate challenge when its legit. Maybe with some clever design or enemies that push me to really think about properly utilizing my moves and whatnot. What I dont like is stuff like spongey enemies, insane damage, instakills, etc. Stuff like that just feels cheap to me

I have 30-60 minutes per day to play games, so I just can't dedicate the time to master a game like Elden Ring

Really depends on the games I play. I do love me some Fromsoftware games and I accept the challenges and I don't really blame the game if it's brutal. The thing about Fromsoft's game is that while they can be difficult, but at the same time they are fair and when I die, it's because of my own failures (whether it being impatient and charging head on straight, being cocky and/or not learning the patterns of certain bosses)

I can say the same for other Souls like game such as Nioh which I also love and I would admit that it will take me a while to beat these kind of games because there are times that I just give up (for a while) and then pick up the game again and continue from where I left off.

In some cases where games have difficulty selection, I tend to just go with "Normal" mode just to enjoy the game but at the same time, have some fair challenges along the way. Though in Resident Evil's case, I really do love me some challenges so for RE2 Remake and RE4 Remakes, I cranked up the difficulties to challenge myself, especially for RE2 Remake where the hard difficulty is the one that has the limited ink ribbon which I welcome as a challenge and as a tribute to the old RE games

@nessisonett It's not always a skill issue sometimes it's bad game or level design something like ridiculous bad/unfair checkpoints to name something.

Get good,BRING IT OON

Absolutely. Frustration or difficulty is definitely not one of the things I'm looking for when playing a game, so I start off with the regular difficulty, but if it's giving me too much trouble, I tone it down one level. The most recent example being FF7 Rebirth, where I stuck to Normal from the start, but realized some early enemies were giving me headaches, so I finished on Easy. However, after finishing the story and all side activities, I put it back to normal since I can feel stronger against bosses. I've been playing games for around 28 years, and I get the feeling that modern games set the "Normal" difficulty as Hard to artificially increase the game's longevity. The Rising Tide DLC was the perfect example of that, because even on the Story difficulty, it was hard, to make up for its short duration.

Yes. I like souls games but I mainly like them if I can use a glitch to get lots of op and make me op or mods then I enjoy it more and not super annoyed when I die and lose everything.
Although weirdly I really liked wo long.

I don't mind a harder difficultly if I'm on new game plus and games in general when getting trophies or whatever like the plat on resi games and last of us and all that or the odd mil sim

Not so much put off but certainly wary of a game if it is. I understand not wanting to spend hours upon hours to make little or no progress. But I don't, constantly complaining about a lack of easy mode in From games when the director has already stated multiple times that he doesn't want to do that

Depends if my time feels wasted. Cuphead vs Dark Souls 1 perfect example. Love Cuphead because I die, and I'm instantly back at the boss fight to try again. Ok Dark Souls you reload, and have to spend 10-15 minutes sometimes to get back to the boss you died to. Not fun when it takes several tries to git gud at the boss when you waste several hours just replaying the section to get to it. So not so much the difficulty being the issue, but rather the punishment of dying that turns me off.

I am not strong enough to endure punishing gameplay!

Sure. But not because it is hard per se, just because I don’t find it fun to learn to “git gud” through what is effectively trial and error. Plus the whole limited time available thing.
That’s not to say I want games to have easy modes by default, just that I accept certain games aren’t for me at this point in my life.

Absolutely. My actual life is already enough of a challenge, I don't need my gaming to be a challenge too.

Time availability certainly plays a role. In my youth, I had the time to hone my skills and tackle gaming challenges. Now, in my early 30s with a career, a partner, and two young children, the time and desire to improve my 'gaming skills' is just not there. I'd rather spend that time doing something more meaningful.

Yes. Maybe it was less of a problem when Dark Souls came out over ten years ago, but games have only gotten harder, my free time has gotten more valuable, the fans have gotten more hostle about it, and my mental state has gotten more fragile. Rise of the Ronin is the first Team Ninja game I've finished, and a big part of why is because I could tune the difficulty. If you want to make a hard game, do ahead, no one's stopping you. Just stop creating discourse if some people don't receive it as well.

Yup. I get very frustrated and never go back

No. I'm embraced the challenge.

I love fighting games which is possibly one if not the most challenging genre in video games since a lot of people are too scared to try it or spend enough time to get better including experince many lost, hence the rage quit and stop playing after a week or two. To get better and playing at high level, you not just to have solid fundamentals but also need to understand the matchup and frame data for each character. After that, you need to deal with the mental stacks in real time which can be very exhausting especially if you're playing in a tournament.

But i also finished other challenging games like Alundra (the puzzle are nuts), Contra, Ninja Gaiden, Ghost n Goblins, Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Shinobi, Mega Man (anyone who beat Mega Man must be know how difficult beating the Yellow Devil), etc.

Challenging games are not for everyone for sure. Sadly there are less and less challenging games because developers wants their games to sell well and reach wider audiences, which i can't blame them for toning down their games. In the end video games is still about making money...

@UltimateOtaku91 It belies your name that you should need an easy mode. I repeat, and with all respect, if you want an easier time of it, or you just want to 'complete' games, then there are many other better choices around than Elden Ring.

When I was younger, I played the games with whatever the default difficulty was, but now I'm married with kids- therefore less spare time, I'll happily turn the games difficulty down

Yeah time is too precious these days to be stressing over game progress. I’d rather just have fun with a game.

Having said that there are some I’ve stuck with which were just too good like bloodborne and ninja gaiden.

I love the sense of accomplishment I get from completing tough games! I go for platinums and I have enjoyed games like Vanquish, Street Fighter 4, Cuphead and Ninja Gaiden 2! I wouldn’t miss out on playing a game simply because it’s supposed to be hard. If I like the look of it, I will definitely play it!

It depends. I do think FromSoft are going to hit a wall at some point, you can only make a game so hard yknow? I didn't like Nioh because it was too hard for me but I don't think it was a bad game, I just didn't have the patience to put in the amount of practice it wants me to. I just don't have that sort of time anymore.

I've been playing Souls games for nearly 15 years so I'm familiar enough with the games themselves that I've never reached that point of feeling like I'm wasting my time but with some brutally hard games, it can certainly feel that way and I imagine it feels that way for some who try Elden Ring for the first time too.

Do I think these games should have an easy mode though? No. I think the games are fine as they are. Some games just aren't for everyone and besides Elden Ring has an easy mode.

It's called Mimic Tear 😉

Life is hard enough, I'm looking to escape not make it worse.

That said, Elden Ring using Save Wizard is some of the most fun I've ever had in gaming. Without SW though, I would never have considered buying it.

@Darude84 Speaking personally, it's not just the number of hours but the quality of that time investment. FromSoftware provide so many heart-pounding memorable adrenaline rushes that in turn provide an incredible sense of accomplishment. In fact you barely notice the time you've spent playing. Death Stranding, on the other hand, as the hours go by is its antithesis: dull, pointless, and uneventful.

Absolutely. Good for those people that have the time, tenacity, and patience to enjoy souls-game or any other brutal difficulty games but they are just not for me. I knew that and I'm not going to pretend that I'd enjoy it. Hell, I tend to even set my games to Very Easy or Story if there are difficulty options available.

I wish I do have those qualities I mentioned above though, as it seems that I really missed on a great game in Elden Ring. Oh well, it is what it is.

I support difficulty options (& usually play on whatever the equivalent of "Normal" is) and generally like being able to make notable progress every time I play because I don't have as much time as I did when I was a kid.

That said, I'm not necessarily against difficult bosses & the like, as long as the game respects your time. Let me save right before the boss or what have you and I'll be more likely to pull through than if I have to play through a bunch of other stuff I've already completed just to get back to the point I had difficulty with (looking at you FFVII Rebirth final boss, which I did beat, but was a pain having to do all those phases again after having to put the game up).

I feel like the people mentioning a sense of accomplishment are missing something in their lives. You shouldn't need a video game to feel accomplished especially because it's a false sense of achievement. Beating a video game isn't really something you can brag about to anyone.

Like, "Everyone! I just beat Malenia!" OK congrats? No one cares.

In a word, yes. But not every game has to be for every gamer.

It depends. As long as it feels as if I'm gradually improving or making progress, then difficult games can be great fun. Of course, hitting a brick wall and getting stuck is less fun.

@Flaming_Kaiser Yeah, and that’s the way the game was created, for better or worse. Not everything needs to be for everyone.

I embrace the challenge.i been playing hard video games since the 198ps.im use to it.bring on the challenge.its all good.theres always a way to beat a tough boss.word up son

I like challenging games, but I think developers should add tools to make it easier if possible. Elden Ring does this, by adding the mimic tear and allowing you to make busted builds. Even though the DLC is harder at first, if you collect enough fragments, you'll be fine if you want to use the tools given to make it easier. A fully upgraded mimic tear can solo a boss.

Games like Nioh do this too, but to a lesser extend. For example, the sloth talisman is really good and can you help you out a lot, but it's nowhere near as busted as the mimic tear.

The only fromsoft game that really requires you to get 'gud' is Sekiro.

As a parent to 2 young children, and limited free time due to life and work commitments, I won't buy difficult games anymore . I just don't have time to dedicate to learning how to master them. I've bounced quickly off every souls game and souls-like game. That doesn't mean I don't like a challenge - I do, but I want to feel I am making progress in an evening.

With that said, not every game has to cater for everyone, and there are plenty of other games out there that I can have a great time with so I don't think developers should have to hinder their vision if they want to make a difficult game.

My only caveat is that currently, souls-likes appear to be the genre of choice, so I am getting a little frustrated seeing some awesome looking games like black myth wukong and phantom blade zero and feeling like I won't be able to play them.

Depends on how the difficulty is handled. It's really a question of accessibility and punishment. Am I bothered by the difficulty of Super Meat Boy and Celeste? Nope. But I never finished Returnal partially because I got tied of losing so much progress and 'replaying' hours of content.

Even with Elden Ring, it wasn't the difficulty that put me off the game, per se. It was more the pacing of difficulty and power progression. I don't want every challenge to feel like a struggle and I want to get notably stronger almost every play session. I spent 4 hours fighting Margit as a level 5 thief until I won and enjoyed the whole process. But still stopped playing after 25 hours because I thought how the game handled its difficulty was exhausting.

(Also because Kirby came out and was amazingly fun throughout. Kinda made me wonder why I was trying so hard with Elden Ring.)

@nessisonett I have not finished Bloodborne yet because it's hard but I don't feel like it's unfair but challenging. And there are some games that just suck the life out of you not because it's hard and unfair. I'm not talking about this game no time to play it yet but I'm talking in general.

I don't get difficulty as a gameplay feature. Difficulty used to be something used to artificially increase the length of a game now it's a selling point.

If a game doesn't have difficulty options it's not for me.

Not interested in the grind. I don't see it as a badge of honour. My free time is already limited as it is without repeating the same stuff over n over

Anything with the key words "souls like" I avoid like the plague, it's cringe worthy when devs use this as a cheap gameplay tactic to make Thier game popular, typical gaming troupe 🙄

I don't have time for games like this, I have a busy life and work, I'm not a 10 year old kid playing a NES anymore lol

@Rob_230 "My only caveat is that currently, souls-likes appear to be the genre of choice, so I am getting a little frustrated seeing some awesome looking games like black myth wukong and phantom blade zero and feeling like I won't be able to play them"

They grow like a toxic over abundance rapidly I can't even enjoy anything anymore with how bad it's got, even a cooking game would have souls like if it could LMAO

Went for the time option. Way too much on the 'to play list' to spend an inordinate about of time grinding one game.

Also so many talk about the rush after finally overcoming a hard boss but for me it's relief immediately followed by dread that I'm about to go through that stress all over again on the next boss.

To each their own though.

@Rob_230 I believe the phantom blade zero Devs have distanced themselves from the souls like tag as they believe it doesn't apply to their game.
I think I remember reading somewhere that Black myth wukong will have difficulty options.
Hopefully that can assuage some of your concerns on those titles.

Depends on if the game is worth the struggle. I’ve powered through many games that were difficult because I was enjoying the experience overall. But then there are games where it isn’t worth it for me. A recent example is Tunic. Tried to get into it, but the difficult combat just didn’t interest me at all and the pleasure of exploration couldn’t overcome that aspect.

But some of the best games of recent years have had an effective difficulty curve. The recent trend of “cozy” games, have revealed how shallow an experience could be when everything is just given to the player by grinding. That’s why I’ve given up on so many Jrpgs as well.

@JalapenoSpiceLife haha it happens every generation to the point it does get boring, doesn't it?

• PS1 was probably survival horror and JRPGs
• Ps2 was the era of the 3d platformer
• Ps3 was the era of the first person shooter
• Ps4 was the era of the walking sim and metroidvania

And now we are where we are with souls-likes and live service games. Does make me wonder what PS6 generation will look like 🤔

My goodness, don't give them ideas 😅 Overcooked 3 - eat your soul edition

Not every game needs to cater to every player. And From are obviously selling enough to make them a major developer lately so they don't need the business of those who complaint anyway.

That being said, and regarding the question: I admit I gave up on the latter levels of Super Meat Boy back in the day. Just too damn difficult for a platform casual like me. But I feel I got enough enjoyment out of the game and I have no complaints though. Kudos to anyone who did complete it!

Got of War, streamed it from the PS+ service. Got stuck same place at the launch of this game in 2004…in the water level with the moving walls.

I’ll just pick up the second on and move on.

@Cloud39472 You do realize feeling a sense of accomplishment is part of the fun right? Also do you not have any friends or something? Beating something challenging is something I always talk about with my friends and so do they with me. We always talk about how we beat Destiny 2's Beyond Light raid and how it was incredibly satisfying figuring it out and beating the entire raid. Who are you to tell someone that no one cares?

Difficulty rarely puts me off from playing a game that I want to play. If I have decided to play something because I am interested in it, I'll see it through and rise to the challenge (however long that takes). The feeling of learning and improving is intoxicating, and the rush of conquering a challenge is unmatched for me (whether its solving a tough puzzle in Baba is You, defeating a Souls boss, or landing a new combo in fighting game).

I have a decent chunk less free time than I used to, but I have made room for the more difficult games that I love by being a lot more selective with the AAA headliners that tend to just be inoffensive 6s or 7s for me.

It is entirely dependent on if it’s a fair challenge or not. If I feel that I have all the tools necessary to counter what a game is throwing at me, it’s fun. There is a difference between a challenge and a game artificially inflating difficulty through gimmicks.

Good boss designs are when there are tight hit boxes, recognizable reads on attack patterns, and a correct counter to a given attack. It should feel like a high stakes chess match, if you mess up you should be punished appropriately and learn from your mistakes.

This is what separates FromSoftware from the rest of the industry. In contrast, God of War just feels like a battle of attrition/endurance where difficulty is reduced down to meaning large boss health pools. Other games lack the weight and consequence of player action that FromSoft provides.

Other than exceptions like GOW and Souls games, I tend to find most games nowadays on the easier side.
It's good that we have both, so I implore that FromSoftware won't nerf the DLC with all these review bombings in Steam. Just go play another game, as I did with 80% of Nintendo games nowadays sadly because they have no challenge at all.

This poor horse has been beaten to death and then some. 😆

If I'm into the genre of the game talked about then difficulty matters very little. Other aspects are much more important. If I'm not such as for example XCom and strategy games which I only dabble in, then I would take it into consideration.

I'm into 3rd person action games so Fromsoft's right up my alley.

@Shepherd_Tallon Couldn't agree more. I love these games, and I know that if I die it's part of the game and usually my fault. The pure essence of git gud.
On the other hand I felt Nioh games a little unfair some times. But it's good that more games like these exist anyways.

For the longest time I didn't like the Souls games, but Elden Ring got me hooked and I've since played through almost all of them.

The thing that people keep missing (and I myself missed the first few times I tried Demon's or Dark Souls) is the game is an RPG so there is a difficulty setting. It's not setting the game to "easy mode", but similar to Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest you can grind to level up if you're having trouble or get better spells or equipment. You can also summon help and in Elden Ring use spirit ashes or upgrade your ashes of war; there's a myriad of ways to make the game easier if you're stuck on a tough boss.

If something already has an established record for being difficult and the design of the game revolves around that then I don't think there should be anything in place to change that. Everything doesn't have to be for every one.

I still buy and play from games but absolutely they can put me off.

Sometimes I enjoy the mauling I’m getting. But then well I game to have fun. And if the difficulty is making it less fun then it will drop down the pile.

And now especially with GPU/Plus there’s so many other games I can go enjoy. (Then swing back round to the difficult one).

I am in the camp of - single player only - should have difficulty setting. Player A can ‘git gud’ etc and play on the intended settings. Where’s player B can tailor it to their level.

Means both player A and B can enjoy the game. It also doesn’t spoil each other’s experience. Because a difficulty setting doesn’t diminish anything for other people

@Cloud39472 "You shouldn't need a video game to feel accomplished especially because it's a false sense of achievement. Beating a video game isn't really something you can brag about to anyone."

That's for you. But each person has their own sense of achievement. If they feel they accomplished something important in their life after they beating Dark Souls, Cuphead, or Battletoads then what's the harm from that?
That sense of achievement could be the positive mental boost they really needed after they had some bad experiences at their works, school, etc. And if they wants to talk about that achievement with their friends or families then i still don't see any problem too. Talking about hobbies, food, or anything with friends or families is a part of socializing and can be good for mental health.

I mean. I keep hearing a lot of people can get through of losing someone they love after they played some video games. Of course we can say we shouldn't need video games to make us happy again. Just go talk to someone or eat a lot of pizza and bam problem solved right?

No gameplay difficult options, not even trying it.

I'm the type to intentionally choose "hard" mode when I play a game, because I enjoy having to utilise every system and scrap of power available to me. I don't think it's possible to reach a 'god tier' level of gaming without some challenge, and I'm all about relishing in those moments of balletic anarchy, when somehow everything just clicks.

It’s a bit more of an answer than the options above. I like a challenge if it’s a game that interests me. Like an Elden ring or or nioh. But I don’t always like a difficult game. I play the last of us games and god of war on easier settings. It really just depends. Like I unfortunately couldn’t get into cuphead or hollow knight. Loved Returnal spent almost 100 hours on it.

@RoomWithaMoose Fighting Margit at level 5 was your first mistake! I think most people are at least around lv 20 when they encounter him, and with good reason. Obviously, with enough practice, you could take him on at lv 1, but I think you've seem the problem with that 😉

@PuppetMaster That's fair. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the main reason you should be playing games is for fun. Plain and simple. If the only positive aspect of a game is that it feels rewarding then I don't think that's a good thing.

I don't play Elden Ring to feel accomplished. I play it to have fun and the achievement of beating a hard boss is just a sidenote to me. Honestly most of the time I just feel relief after beating a hard boss 😅

@J2theEzzo I had no issue fighting him for hours. That's what I'm saying: I don't mind challenges, but there's specific hurdles associated with difficulty that can be annoying.

most dads and moms ain't got time for brutally difficult games when your playing time happens after family time and adult responsibilities are finished and it's 10 or 11pm and you got work and parental duties the next morning. kudos to those that play dark blood souls die twice borne games.

Also 'git gud' maybe the worst and most obnoxiously annoying things I've ever heard/read. I just think 'sad (literal) mother fu**er when someone cretin utters it about someone finding a hard game difficult

@RoomWithaMoose Yeah, I see that. Just remarking that lv 5 was a very "early game" level to reach Margit at. So, in terms of ER, I'd think those hurdles exist slightly less, because there's always an alternative route, or option of levelling up. Admittedly, not so much in other Souls titles, where there's generally some linearity.

@J2theEzzo But I... I fully understand that. I understood while fighting him for hours that I could've left and gotten stronger. I didn't, and I'm not criticizing the game for that.

Not that you don't have a point. But I still found the game overly exhausting, and I played the rest of the game avoiding challenges I found beyond my character's abilities.

I have never played a From Software game for exactly this reason. Yes, I'm 55 now, so that doesn't help but I love watching streams of these games and would love to play, but they're just too hard.
I also get the fact that that it's what makes them what they are.
I'd love them to experiment with just one of their games and put an easier mode in just to see what kind of feedback/sales it garners, but as I previously said I get that that defeats the object of this franchise.

I appreciate a moderate challenge. Stellar Blade is right at the edge of how difficult I want a game to be. Every time I die, I know exactly why and what I need to do on the next attempt. Same games inflate difficulty artificially with weird mechanics - for example, I've played games with large bosses that charge up for attacks. I get clear in advance, but the boss rotates in place as if it was on a turn table to unleash it upon my character anyway. Why should I expect the boss to move that way? A big lumbering thing like that should have to have some kind of turn animation that takes time to execute, but instead, the difficulty is inflated artificially. That kind of difficulty is really, really annoying because it feels artificial.

Stellar Blade is an example of a game that does it right. Square off against an enemy and try to time its blows for a perfect parry, but oh dang, it pulled that second blow a bit and had a delayed third one. I got complacent thinking I could predict its movement, but it was more erratic. I did a poor job anticipating what it was going to do, so I pay the price. The Resident Evil remakes do the same thing with zombie head sway. That sort of smart, on-your-toes kind of game play difficulty is invigorating and rewarding for me. Running face first in to getting one-shot by a boss that defies the laws of physics and losing an hour of progress is not.

I heard a tale about this game on the ps3 called demons souls. My mate bought an import copy because at the time it wasn't released over here. He ranted and raved about how tough this game was but it was utterly compelling at the same time. I found a copy on ebay for around £30 and I was hooked instantly. It took me a long time to finish it and I loved every minute of it and I've been hooked on fromsofts games ever since although I have not tried the mech game yet. Sekiro is probably the toughest in fromsofts games and I had to admit defeat after the 1000th time I died at the hands of that bloody poo flinging gorilla. I wouldn't be bothered about having difficulty settings because I don't have to use them but I do think that more of their games would sell because there are loads of gamers who will never sample the delights of elden ring,dark souls and the mighty sekiro and bloodborne due to the tough nature putting them off. So whilst I'm happy to torture myself over and over again I do think that maybe fromsoft should at least give others more options.

@UltimateOtaku91 "I don't play games for a challenge, I like no aggro whilst I play games and with the amount of games I play per year i don't want to spend hours and hours replaying bosses and areas."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with recognizing that these games simply aren't for you, so why should they cater to you?
I'm not a From Soft fan either (I enjoyed the games I played but I'm not super into them), but I can recognize that those games are made with a clear artistic vision in mind, which I admire but unfortunately tends to be outside of my personal taste.

I don’t mind difficult games per se; it’s more the way that souls-like games implement difficulty that I find to be boring, frustrating, and a waste of my time.

I’ll definitely play the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC - but on a PC and with mods that balance out the difficulty to something reasonable.

I just watch playthroughs of souls games, they're too repetitive for me and I don't have the time, patience or inclination to bother.

Finished each and every one of From's Souls genre games, from Demon's Souls to Elden Ring.
And from them all, Bloodborne had the difficulty balanced in the best way. It had the best ratios of "risk-reward" and "tough but fair" categories, above all it's siblings.
Ever since Sekiro From started adding extra moves on enemies... just when you think they'll stop attacking, they'll just keep on going with a few more hits. They even made some enemies relentlessly attacking for dozens of seconds...
They even added some input reading in Elden Ring, which was both unnecessary and a lame ass cheap way of increasing difficulty. It doesn't make bosses smarter, but more annoying - needlessly.
You can get over them with patience and perseverance...
But aside from Bloodborne I find mine are starting to wear pretty thin.
Especially with the Shadow of the Eardtree DLC - which just cranks the damage and life of some of the enemies and bosses to effed up levels, for no actual reason but to make the game hard - and the rewards just don't match this effort!
It's actually taking all the fun out of it.

Beating bosses like Father Gascoigne or Lady Maria or Gherman, that was an absolute thrill and a brilliant adrenaline rush. Beating bosses in SOTE is just very annoying.
I really don't like the direction that From is taking this genre into right now.

I hope Sony gives Miyazaki the green light for Bloodborne 2 soon, until it's not too late and he retires from directing games.
And that he makes it in the same difficulty area as the first game.
That would actually be... perfect!

If you don't like difficult games like Souls/ Nioh why even buy them? The vast majority of games have difficulty options. People have that much choice they complain for the sake of it.

@jruasap for me Bloodborne taught me how to play these games. I’m not as dexterous as some of these folks so I’d need all the help I can get. The game changer for me was don’t be greedy, not rushing and over leveling a bit before the next area.

I play games for fun and to relax, so while I loved Elden Ring, all the other Soulslikes (and they seem to announce one every day) aren't for me. If you like them, that's great, but I'll be happy when this fad dies down.

As soon as I hear souls like I'm out. Unless it's souls like with guns. Remnant is such a great series.

This argument often seems to come down to whether or not people have the time and drive to conquer a difficult game, but it isn't as simple as that. Everyone isn't equally good at gaming. Difficulty settings aren't just there to allow people to steamroller through games rather than chipping away at them - I've been playing games for nearly 40 years but I'm still not very good at them! There are games where I play on normal - or even easy - and still have to repeat sections over and over until I get them right. I still get the satisfaction of knowing I've finally beaten them, even if there are higher difficulty settings I dare not try. That said, I have no problem with someone wanting to make a game that provides a challenge that only the bravest, toughest and most nimble need try take on. There are more than enough games that I can play through to completion. Way too many in fact, hence the backlog!

Talking about difficulty is one thing, but it has to be acknowledged that Elden Ring is EASILY one of the best games of this generation (I'd put it at #1) and it is probably one of the best video games ever made (I'd say so). This is partly due to the difficulty, not in spite of it.

I don't second guess masterpieces. Elden Ring is perfection. I pity gamers who miss it.

It depends on the game and why it’s difficult. Lots of games I’ve given up on because they were annoying. From software games are different though. The challenge is always fair. It might be brutal, but it’s always fair.

I play games to relax and have some fun, instead of trying to awaken my inner Hulk.
At almost 50, I just don't have the patience anymore, to "git gud", in frustrating games.

@Cloud39472 laughable take. what is the point of gaming in general then? just because there is more of an emphasis on overcoming challenges and people enjoy that doesn't say anything about their lives. its the type of gaming experience they enjoy, just like you enjoy your own experience. the accomplishment is personal and has nothing to do with bragging it just feels good to know you put in the work and were able to overcome something difficult and complex

Completely depends on if I'm enjoying it. If I am it can be as easy or difficult as it likes.
If I'm not enjoying it then ye being extremely difficult or even extremely easy would likely be the final nail in the coffin for that game.

Don't mind a hard platformer.. sackboy Ripsnorter for example... Don't enjoy stupid difficult combat that can feel random

When we're talking about Fromsoft games, I think we have to stop talking about the games being "hard", the main challenge in the design of a Fromsoft game isn't that it's actually "hard." Nioh is hard. Wo Long is hard. Fire Emblem with no deaths is hard. Fromsoft games aren't "hard". They're obnoxious time wasters on the order of a GaaS game designed to force you to live inside the game for as much time as possible by filling it with BS trial & error design that forces you to not only repeat the thing you failed the trial and error check over and over, but punishes/bloats the game by forcing you to repeat content over and over prior to the actual challenge.

I think I'd enjoy the "hard" bosses (how hard is it, you just mash dodge and occasionally attack until you work out the "gimmick" for each boss and figure out how to cheese it, probably by reading it on reddit.) if it would spawn me directly back into the boss fight, AC4 kind of does this, it spawns you before the boss, but also forces you to wait timeouts for cutscene nonsense, I'd enjoy retrying it and working out the challenge/trial and erroring the gimmick. And if it's a long boss fight, I'd have fun with it if it would respawn me directly into phase 3 of the battle where I failed rather than having to redo the entire thing. I do not like having my time wasted, and I do not like redoing the same thing over and over after I've already done it over and over. Fromsoft games simply pad out the game length and amplify frustration, not due to "difficulty", but due to a design based entirely on trial and error that forces you to redo chunks of game every time you need to retry the error part. It would be pretty much impossible to complete the game, first time through, without retrying bosses multiple times regardless of skill level, and there's a certain aspect of waiting for RNGesus to bless you with a lucky run. It's essentially a cleverly disguised Rogue-lite design heralded as something special because they do have a beautiful art and animation design. One that they refuse to let anyone see unless they're willing to put up with the Rogue-lite time-wasting frustrating BS.

A certain personality type gets a high from the gambling-like rush of holding or folding your souls, win big or lose all. And another type gets a rush from finally getting the gimmick, but it's not really a test of gamer skill, it's a test of patience to keep beating your head against a wall until you eventually punch a hole big enough for your head to fit through.

Having said that, I kind of like Elden Ring, particularly the open world parts, but their design problems are obvious if you're not a die-hard fan of it. It annoys me to see the same carried over now into Armored Core 4 where the very first boss is an obnoxious one that hovers outside the combat zone half the time, and luck plays a greater role than skill. Skill comes down to smash the thing in the face with your sword, as long as it lets you, and don't forget - dodge dodge dodge! I don't get where the whole "hard but fair" mantra comes in. Fromsoft games aren't "fair" they just have a gimmick usually based on an exact timing for each boss you have to figure out.

Elden Ring does tend to do better than other Soulsborne games in terms of checkpointing near bosses. Not ideal, but better than before. But still forces you to keep backtracking to save progress.

@gipsojo "Elden Ring is perfection. I pity gamers who miss it."

I'm saving time and money by not messing with those games. I'm good.

I'm late middle aged and have much better things to do with my time. I don't mind spending time on games, but I have to feel as though I'm making adequate progress through an enjoyable story in each session, to justify the time.

Not a problem though, I just don't buy hard games or games that run shoddily. They don't get my money.

Elden Ring fits into both of those categories. No skin off my nose, and the developer can churn a profit from the people who have an abundance of spare time that they don't attach a high value to, and who don't mind bad frame rates.

All power to them. From Soft, and those gamers, have a good relationship going. and I will keep my nose out of it.

Difficulty can be pretty subjective. When I can’t see what I’m doing wrong and a path forward after doing my best I tend to move on. Having said that Sekiro was too hard for me and SotE is the closest since then but there’s enough to do I can take my time with it. Seeing as most games aren’t challenging for me personally, it’s ok if some are to make something worthwhile for others.

When a games difficulty makes it seem like a job or chore in that you have to work at it to grind and ‘git gud’, I lose interest

@NEStalgia to your point I think this DLC has shown the design of fromsoft games to be a bit threadbare. Constant, aggressive, overbearing, force provides a challenge for many of its long time fans but loses the charm of rewarding patience and observation to anyone but the most dedicated fans. Now the observation comes largely from repeated deaths and guessing. It makes it so that I feel like I’m enduring a challenge more than growing past it. I’ll be 40 soon and the dedication it will take to keep playing their games is more than I’m willing to put in. If it’s still providing a rewarding experience for others, I can leave in peace.

@Llamageddon Thanks for that. I'll certainly keep my fingers crossed and keep watching impression videos and previews etc.

I do think with some of these titles there is an element of journalists and commentators (not accusing push square of this btw) needing to avoid taking the easy option of simply slapping a souls tag on everything in their reporting, when it's probably not a fair comparison

I'm 33 with 2 daughters, so I won't waste time in games that throw my time at the garbage. 3 hours of no progress is better "wasted" trying to learn a new thing.

Shadow of the Erdtree is without a doubt the hardest content From has ever made. I have played and beat every one of their games. I absolutely love it. There are ways to make it easier. Some bosses you can summon up to 3 people. The scadutree fragments really help as well. I understand that it can be too much for some people but for me it is great after beating some of these bosses (ie Renalla after 20 times).

@Logonogo Yeah, I think we've already confirmed I was out of line. Thanks though.

I tend to categorize a hard game as either “challenging but satisfying” and “just frustrating to play”. I put the game on hard mode (though not the hardest). If that mode is so frustrating that I have to change difficulty to something much easier, then it was not a good design to begin with.

@Cloud39472 sorry I just read your initial post, didn’t mean to dogpile

I enjoy FromSoft games, Bloodborne being my favorite as it's my first recorded Platinum trophy. As I got older, I'm starting to appreciate games that have a pause function a lot more often. Granted, I'm in it for SotE DLC, but that's about it for games like that after this. If I can't put a game aside on the fly, I can't justify playing it again for the time being or at all.

Real Life as an adult really needs a pause function or a difficulty slider. Good lord.

Yes, if a game is a Souls game or Souls-like, it is an automatic pass for me. I play games to have fun, and I don't find it fun to die 100 times before you finally beat a particular boss or something like that.

It's a shame Elden Ring had to be that type of game since everything else about it is right up my alley as I love western style RPGs like that. Oh well. It's not like there's not a bunch of other "normal" games out there to play. I just think it's a shame in a sense that these type of games got to be so popular, as I see a game that might seem intriguing and then it gets immediately ignored when I find out it's that type of game.

@Logonogo No worries man. Honestly I think it was pretty deserved after I thought about it for a while.

@KilloWertz Literally me with Roguelikes.

I can't stand losing all my progress and expect to beat my head on the same content with it being "different" each time.

Lots of comments here and I don’t have time to read them all right now, but I will say that if a game is difficult for me, then I am willing to try to ‘git gud’ and then if I fail, adjust the difficulty. But if the game doesn’t really allow me a way to do either of those, then I’ll probably bounce off of that particular game.

BUT, FromSoft games are not like that. They have ‘easy mode’ which is over-leveling and summoning. With a little planning and understanding of the game structure, they are relatively approachable, in my experience. There’s usually a build or a weapon that makes the game easier and most bosses have methods to cheese them. I’m 3.5 games into From’s catalog and haven’t given up yet! 😄

I don't think i am a bad gamer. I have been playing games for more than 30 years.
Everytime i die in a game, my patience with the game starts diminishing.
If it's my fault it's all good and i will adjust. If it's cause it's cheap and annoying, each time i die and my time is wasted it empties the patience bag. If i am playing a game and constantly raging and getting my time wasted with repetition, it's over. I don't get any joy from overcoming a cheap challenge. I get relief and that does not feel worthwhile. I play games to have fun. I will not waste my time on trash. I will not live forever and there are other games i want to play.

When games make a selling point that they are souls like and/or dying a lot is a thing, i pass on them imediatly. It's instant cure. I won't buy your game.

Depends on the game and genre for me.

Soulslikes are ones where I really appreciate the challenge if it's done right(most FromSoft games nail this aspect pretty well in my opinion), but there are some, like Lords of the Fallen from last year, that just feel like the devs didn't know how to balance the challenge and as a result, fights just felt pretty unfair which made the game pretty boring fast.

When it comes to JRPG's, I generally prefer when they are harder and force you to use your head in order to make progress, Octopath Traveler, SMTIII(and both versions of SMTV), Trails from Zero and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 come to mind for this genre.

Other than these genres, I guess I prefer slightly easier games in general but I will always be happy if a game is challenging from the get-go.

You too will, eventually, grow old and curse slow responses, and begin to reject games because you just can’t be f***** learning them let alone the difficulty is way too hard. Yeah, yeah not you.

I cut my teeth on WoW when it was one step beyond a DOS game and I have owned every console Sony has made though, at 66, I think I will make the upcoming PS5 Pro my last, and concentrate on my game ‘pile of shame’ before I kark it, controller firmly in hand.

Attention game designers!! Out of respect for a life-time of support and too much cash tbh, you owe me a “Seniors Difficulty Level”, only unlockable to the aged, and the disabled, that allows us to explore and taste the joys of your artistic expression, because, you see, we cannot ‘GET GUD!’ ever again. QQ

Please?

Yeah I never tried to play devil may cry for that reason.

The poll is too simplistic. It depends on genre, and how skilled I am at it. For example, I know I'd be awful at, and get frustrated by, FtomSoftware games, but I absolutely love Hollow Knight. It's a deliberately difficult game, however I'm much better at 2D Metroidvanias than parrying and blocking in 3D environments. So I can't really answer your poll.

Maybe not the difficulty, necessarily, but I definitely will put a game down if it's too "sweaty" when I just want to relax. Doom Eternal is amazing, but it needed more quiet moments. They put stage hazards and platforming in to keep the time between battles interesting, but I missed just low stakes exploration.

PSA from FROM Software, and probably the only tip you'll get to make the game less hard (I won't say easier).
https://x.com/BandaiNamcoUS/status/1804630213562962043?t=zmXXN3TV_hJqMr4Vu9gXBg&s=19

Seems all the fools rushed in and got handed an ass kicking from Mitzi & co, for not reading the tips I bet. All those people wanted to be first to beat the bosses and fell straight into the trap, I think FS want you to explore every corner of the map to get the most out of the game.

I'm about to start playing Sekiro so I'll let you know in a couple of weeks.

I put them off because of time these days, I dont want to spend the time working out every pattern of a boss just to be able to beat them anymore.

It also comes down to what does it mean for a game to be on hard difficulty?

Like bullet spongey enemies?
25 more enemies?
Only 1 way to kill them enemies?

What i truly want to see from games is, AI which act like a true professional in whatever they practise in.

Thats immersion for me.

Going into a battle with swords, I want them to be as catious as I am and think before just going through the motions.

I want soliders on the battle field to think of where they are going and not just run at me, provide cover fire, flank, like a real solider would, 1 shot to my head im done but the aiming as precise as a true army vet would be from that distance and not just a lock on and I'm done because I poke my head out from 500m away.

That to me is a true testament to a games difficulty

It doesn't bother me because I am intelligent enough to understand what the game is about. I don't buy a game then whine because it isn't to my liking. I simply go play something I will enjoy. If it's too hard then it's not for you. It's as dumb as buying and FPS game and being angry because there isn't enough fishing. Too many whiners now.

It depends. I like a moderate challenge. Which Elden Ring’s base game was bar two bosses which I was fine being the exceptions.

I beat the recent DLC but the difficulty or perhaps more accurately the antagonistic boss design put me off. It feels like the bosses were designed for content creators to show off their weird cheeses or obscure builds. Like they were made in response to that Malenia pot headed guy who helps people newt her, all to try and get more viral stories like that.

In the end my victories came down to the luck of them not doing the bad combo at the wrong time and bleed being overpowered as hell on the right weapon. I don’t feel proud like I do for beating Malenia and Elden Beast. I just feel like I was overcharged for a pretty awful and unenjoyable DLC.

As for games in general outside of souls likes. Honestly I’m more a sucker for power fantasy games like Skyrim, Cyberpunk etc. I played God of War Ragnarok on easy because I felt like that’s the kind of power level Kratos would be at. If I’m doing a non-dragonborn roleplaythrough of Skyrim I grab a bunch of difficulty mods to play into the fantasy of it. (Injuries, realistic damage, no health regen, death alternatives where I lose gear etc).

Difficulty and fantasy gotta match for me.

I can adapt to a games difficulty most of the time so nah it never puts me off.

Fun fact this poll will be used again when the next From game comes out 🙄

Yeah...I overcome enough difficult challenges at work.

I use WeMod as needed.when developers go overboard

The reason I've never touched a Souls or Bloodborn game. Anytime an ad or preview says "Souls-like" I immediately scratch it off my list. I have too little time in life to waste it on games that revel in pissing me off. Haha. I need to enjoy every moment of the little game times I get.

Depends/kind of depends on the challenge/what the game offers, what era of gaming it is as well, what genre expectations or the studio's typical games are like of challenge or just some parts are just awkward as many PS1-3 titles can vary.

PS2/PS1/PSP I don't mind the experimental & awkward design because they don't always have difficulty settings, with current ones (certain PS3/Vita but obviously PS4/5 era (PS4 for me) as usually pretty typical of easy these days but some exceptions come up such as some racing or souls (or Indies mimicking old gen design or overlooking aspects and sometimes problems that should be solved not replicated that much of inspiration besides their good old school core design), the level/game design as awkward was more exciting and fair of trying to refine itself.

Nowadays the difficulty to me I just put it low or if it's pro level like Ride 4 or MotoGP16/assuming others are too hard on very easy (the rally/dirt bike opponents are easy, the MotoGP riders AI is way too hard that's how I know because that game has those 3 types of gameplay and I enjoy the Ride series it was easy to work out the differences), many of Ride 3 and older were fine I'm buying up the PS3/360 era ones currently and are easy.

Some of GT Sport's F1 or endurance races sucked but the rest was fairly balanced of AI or time trial goal times. So if 90% was playable that's fine by me. But still sucks as when GT3-6 has different AI/time trials I find them still playable other than the S-6 GT6 license test being too hard for me to even Bronze not Gold like other players say of it being challenging. XD

Not just AI/pitting & easy in GT3 & 4 besides GT5 and 6 having awful tire physics even worse I find then the Forza Motorsport 2 or 3 & 4 era feel of cars for mid game events. Or endurance in those games in GT Sport to me those events (2 F1 style and what 4 endurance so 6 all up and varied of races and regardless of cars from a Porsche Race Car to others made no differences of One Make not otherwise) were just unplayable from the starting line.

Soulslike don't interest me. For those that want them that's totally fine I respect niches for sure I like many niches continuing on in their own way. But the challenge is ok I just get lazy or bored with the way they want to offer the challenge/combat so in a way it is on me with the stamina and enemy patterns.

Ninja Gaiden 2 was hard too of enemy patterns and laziness to deal with the first boss in level 2 of that game but most other hack n slash/character action games are still playable enough for me besides their difficulty on Normal, anything higher and I can't do it. Darksiders 2 highest difficulty run was ok but I got sick of doing that, beat the game on Normal anyway. I no interest in difficulty trophies, never play on Hard+ (doing well with Valkyrie Elysium as started the demo on hard & gotten through it well, Wanted Dead on Normal kicks my butt so I have to start it again) and to me if the Normal mode is too hard that's a sign.

To me I play enough of PS2/3/4 era titles and current gen on PS4 (equivalents on Nintendo and Xbox) to get an idea how difficulty, design in the games/studio or genres are these days. PS1/PSP control schemes don't bother me either.

Depends on the game, the era, the extent they are aiming for of eh QTE I sometimes can pass. Other times just odd segments, odd movesets that while fun are still better than boring current gen.

Because I play all genres or platformers that had enough of all genres I got used to many others making it easier. I make the effort to dive in and understand them no matter how awkward or foreign many like hack n slashes/tactics are my new favourite genres.

Like when I find a new music genre/style I try to understand it, I find the ones I like and get a sense of the artist or the genre.

It can obviously put you off but I think my mentality around it comes down to "does it feel fair". If I get stuck but feel like it's my problem that's stopping me progressing then I'll keep plugging away at getting better, but if I feel like something about the the game generally feels broken that's when I will find a cheese around it or drop it completely.
As for Erdtree...the difficulty is fine people are just being stubborn not wanting you play certain ways because there's apparently only 1 way youre "allowed" to play Souls games.

I'm really on the fence regarding this topic.

For framing - I adore FromSoft, with Sekiro being in my top5 'Games of All Time' list. I've beaten most of their games, obtaining platinum trophies for DeS and Elden Ring base game. ER was also my personal GOTY for 2022.

This DLC though, and the difficulty curve..... feels strange? It took a while to dawn on me that the key to survival is essentially getting as many 'early-DLC' scadutree fragments as possible, to essentially boost damage-dealt and recede damage-received.

Once you get your fragment level to ~10-12, then many of the games enemies and bosses are absolutely manageable. Before this stage though, the game is near impossible... or at least it was for me!

I appreciate that From have tried something new here, and they definitely needed some measure to prevent level 500 players steamrolling the DLC, but something about it doesn't quite click for me. I am not getting the same satisfaction from beating bosses as I would in say... Sekiro. Instead in Erdtree I feel I am now winning thank to 'finding enough collectables in open world to boost survival'. Whereby in Sekrio, which is very hard btw, the game mechanics seem a lot fairer in challenging you to get better with the tools provided (but never being obnoxiously difficult for the sake of it).

I do wonder how From could have done things differently in terms of scaling? Maybe having a minimum and maximum entry level for DLC, perhaps level 100-150? And if you're over levelled, say level 200, the player would need to choose 50 levels to recede from stats of their choice? (DLC only)

Would be curious to see how others thing the gating could have been improved. For me, the DLC is definitely ticking all my boxes with expectation... aside from the difficulty/scaling management, which isn't landing at all. I do genuinely appreciate From have tried something, but do feel there could have been a better way to manage this?

The discourse being overwhelmingly negative in this regard is a bit unfair to From though - and perhaps representative of now having a whole new 'more mainstream' audience, who aren't acquainted with previous games DLC offerings and the expectation of challenge

Ya I will say it. I play my souls games on PC so I can trainer activate and explore the world.

I remember when you could not turn off multiplayer and I would have infinite health in Dark Souls and a dude got super pissed I was cheating. Not like I asked for this game to be online only. I would be offline if I could

@LordServbot That's another genre I avoid. I tried Returnal, and while I likely would have loved it if it was a "normal" game, having to restart every time I died killed it for me. They added the option to save scum, but that is annoying to try to do over and over.

Sometimes I try them out of curiosity but I don't persevere if I get stuck.

Yeah, that’s why I stay away from soulslikes unless they clearly state they have difficulty settings that let me see the actual end of the game.

And I am getting tired of soulslikes being announced left and right.

Doesn't matter that I like the narrative or have the time nowadays, there's always gonna be those who love this type of game. I shall never bare witness to their stories but then that's kinda the point of the game designer. They do great work for those who love it.

@KilloWertz Returnal makes me upset. That suspend cycle feature hardly counts when it's just a glorified temporary quicksave. I'm sure the game would've been great if it had a natural progression instead of "Speedrun Roguelike the Video Game" and the desert boss didn't delete me every time.

I've tried a few of these sorts of games because I usually like the horror aesthetic a lot of them go for but I just don't have the time or patience to persevere and so I end up just selling them after a few weeks.

Maybe back in the day when I was a fresh faced teenager I would have been willing to put the time in but I'm almost 40, I have 2 kids, a wife and full time job. I'm not into dying over and over and over again it just ain't doing it for me but if people like em then more power to em.

I really wanted to love Sekiro. The setting and story looked wonderful. But the only way I could even make it past the boss in the prologue was to just leg it.

These games don’t need an easy mode to cater for crap players like myself. They need some cheat codes so we can practice without dying! It wouldn’t hurt to put an invincibility cheat in there would it?

The problem with having only one difficulty (hard) is that it limits the ways you can enjoy the game. Yes there is a real sense of achievement in overcoming a challenge - this is good. However there are other ways to appreciate games too especially in something like ER such as atmosphere, world and monster design and the lore. Sometimes by reducing the emphasis on difficulty it'd be possible to appreciate these other elements more.

I would love to experience the lore and worlds of a lot of these games (I made it just past the Taurus Demon in Dark Souls) but the sheer level of frustration of being knocked off ledges and losing everything just wasn't worth the hassle.

I'd love an easy option so I could just explore the worlds, which I know the fanbase hate the idea of, but adding an option for lightweights like me wouldn't impact their experiece of the game at all.

Really only if its a From Software game do I embrace and even enjoy it. Any other games, I have very little patience, especially if their cheap in their difficulty, or their a Souls ripoff.

I bounced off Bloodborne after defeating the second boss simply because the time it would take for me to "git gud" was just not worth the reward. Plus, the walk of shame I had to take back to the boss every time I died kind of felt like the game didn't respect my time (shame, though - I loved the aesthetics and combat). Similar story for me is with online PvP games. It took me several month of playing Battlefield 1 daily before I got to the level where I was consistently happy with my performance. I don't have the time to do this anymore and getting 360noscoped every ten seconds in some new game is not my idea of fun. So, for me either casual games with very little challenge like Dave the Diver or games with more control over difficulty settings like Ghost of Tsushima are the way to go.

I put kinda but in fairness its nothing to do with Soulslike games, and is more to do with genres for me. I have done Demon Souls, Dark Souls 1-3, Bloodborne, Elden Ring, Nioh 1 & 2, Lords of the Fallen, Anime Souls etc and don't consider then to be that hard overall. Personally I find DMC style combat far harder than anything in the souls series. Other than that strategy or anything where I have to aim using a pad are my weak points.

So I reckon everyone is put of by difficult games, but it has no meaning as difficult is different for everyone.

Love watching Elden Ring but I'd never ever play it, way too hard for me and the amount of frustration and anger is simply not worth it, I'm not adverse to a challenging title but Elden Ring is taking the hiss

@adge_uk totally agree - I’d also love a difficulty setting for these games but then you just get souls fans shouting at you saying it would ruin the game / wouldn’t be the same. I have no doubt it wouldn’t be exactly the same tough but rewarding experience, but I’m pretty sure it’s something I personally would enjoy.
Kudos to those that can smash these games though - my old thumbs are long past such achievements!! 🤣🤣

I'm definitely in the "my time is limited" camp. Last thing I wasnt is to play for an hour and make zero progress in whatever game I'm playing. It recently took me just under 2 months to beat God of War Ragnarok, and that was without doing any side missions. Just mainlined the game.

I am not sure that this sort of game is for me, really.

I do not mind games being challenging. After all, that is where they are fun. But I suppose there are limits to my patience.

Plus we all have jobs, and lives. And so on.

I remember the sheer sense of satisfaction I felt after completing Uncharted Drakes Fortune (PS3) on crushing difficulty. Which really comes down to patience, perseverance, and pattern recognition.

I got the platinum trophy for Hogwarts Legacy because I loved exploring, and immersing myself in the game - not because I desperately wanted the platinum.

That said, I own both Elden Ring and Returnal, so I am not averse to playing (or at least trying) “difficult” games.

Mind you, I also found Shadow of the Tomb Raider to be a real challenge for me, especially the DLC. So I understand how rewarding it can be to progress in a difficult game.

If the game is as beautiful and fun to explore as Elden ring then no. If the game however has nothing going for it outside difficulty then it’s a yes

I can't deal with certain difficulties, especially if it feels like difficulty for difficulty sakes. I loved Elden Ring but I felt it had mechanics to get around the difficulty via exploration and leveling. At the same time, I could not master the timing in Sekiro due to the parrying etc. I find difficulty can be an accessibility thing for me - I'm getting old and even with unlimited time, I'm not sure I can manage some high difficulty levels where timing has to be frame perfect.

The Demons Soul remake for PS5 was my first From experience and to be honest I was ready to quit and never play DS or any other From game again, but the amazing job Blue Point did with the remake made me want to continue and as I got more used to the style of the game the more I "enjoyed" it

I do think From games are overly punishing and I don't really buy their point that "making it easier would break the game". I think there's a difference between making a game easier or fairer.

Some of the boss battles in From games are just unfair. The enemies have too much advantage in my opinion.

But I do think From games are pretty amazing, I finished ER and enjoyed that - apart from a couple of boss battles.

I'm now well into the DLC and again really enjoying the exploration and world building. I just wish the boss battles were fairer - I actually think the games would be way more enjoyable if they were.

Absolutely, I avoid anything "soulslike" and I'm gutted when i see the term on a game i might like

It's not the difficulty per se — but with the Souls games in particular, it's more about the way they're designed. I tried to get into Demon's Souls on multiple occasions, and for a little while I did get quite into it, but it was fundamentally the having to repeat a level just to get to the boss, then try to ascertain patterns or build up some sort of strategy in what little time I had before I was inevitably slain, added to the seemingly glacial levelling system, and the fact that combat just felt a bit repetitive and unsatisfying, it just didn't feel enjoyable, to me.

I answered “I don’t enjoy difficult games,” but I have enjoyed some really. I just never give a game a chance if it’s described as “punishing” or something like that. If that’s the point of a game, I’m just not interested.

I'm OK with a challenge but I really really hate one hit kill boss mechanics. I find it to be very lazy game design and zero fun. Returnal was a game that was incredibly fun but I really hated how you played through multiple levels and then had to start over, truly awful mechanic/game design IMO.

However, the older I get the less time I have and desire to punish myself with hard games. Like some other folks have said, I'll play on normal or whatever until I just keep dying on something and then lower the difficult. This happened in Jedi Survivor on a particular boss fight that I won't spoil.

@Silenos Yeah go into Uncharted and play on Brutal difficulty, cakewalk I'm telling you.

I don't think the discourse about shadow is just difficulty in reality.

It's just really poorly balanced. Movesets, the cheap roll catch boss combos, etc. They sometimes feel bs sure but the problem with Erdtree is the damage output and health pool inflation. It's kind of a sad and cheap way to make things More "difficult."

Even more so when Miyazaki is gloating about it like it's some grandiose strategy to push players to the brink, when in reality you just increased the damage and health sliders and pasted copied old animations on new boss character Models.

Love me this genre, played nearly all of them, but I can totally understand people's frustration with this dlc, despite still enjoying it Myself.

The game’s brutality? Nah. If the platinum is brutal? Yes.

It also depends on if the gameplay is “fairly” brutal like Souls which teaches you to master certain things compared to some games that are just punishing to be punishing aka there’s really no point. Souls does it the best IMO. It’s satisfying when you beat a boss you were stuck on and finally have it all click together

@LordServbot Yeah, the game can be a lot of fun for a while until you run into a portion where you know you're likely going to die. Some of the combat can get quite intense in a good way, but then you die and that's that. You can keep save scumming, but that's damn annoying to keep closing the game just before it registers and then relaunching it just to bypass it deleting your "save".