Topic: 4k TV Recommendations

Arghhh. Wrote a long post twice now, so this is a shorted version.

I ended up getting the LG 43UH610V for 500euro. It's better than what I had and does OKish over on rtings. The latency is not as good as the Samsung recommended here, but for the games I play I think I will be OK. It uses the cheaper LED panel (RGBW), but even then I'm quite pleased with the difference in picture quality over my Samsung LED.

You can pick it up in Spain for 429euro from planetatv.es, but it was there today in Carrefour, so i got it.

I'm sure it's not a patch on the pricier budget stuff, but, whilst I'm yet to put a Blu-Ray on I'm happy so far. And it's cheap as chips after a hardcore month game-spend wise and still another minimum 400euro to come in a few days. Cancel Christmas!

i really need help i can't find a solid solution on the internet
i bought a LG 55uh625v ( 55' with 4k and 60hz hdr pro )
but it doesn't have hdr 10 , its hdr pro.. i assume it's not as good? can anyone explain me what hdr pro is , and if i will benefit in ps4 pro?
in the image options i have hdr effect , it says , low midium or high .. 3 options

@ranjas: I wouldn't take my word for it, but I believe HDR pro is LGs term for HDR 10. I've ordered one from them and I'm pretty sure that they use Pro to differentiate from models with Dolby Vision. Ps4 Pro won't be compatible with Dolby Vision so HDR Pro should be all you need.

@ranjas: @Neurotic_Biotic: The LG is NOT HDR10 approved. HDR10 has a set of specific minimum requirements to be met. 10bit panel/colours, Wider Colour Gamut (REC2020 - not REC709 the standard for SDR), min black level of 0.05nits and Peak Brightness of a 1,000nits. These are the MINIMUM standards for HDR10.

The LG is only an 8bit panel, can't reach the required standards for the blacks or peak brightness - not sure about the wider colour gamut either.

HDR Pro is essentially enabling the TV to be sold as a 'HDR' TV as it will be compatible with HDR10 content but will limit it down to the capability of the TV. Instead of getting 10bit colours, the TV will try to reproduce these with 8bit colour. Instead of getting over 1000nits, you will get around 3-400nits - more than SDR but not HDR10 standards.

Before the UHD alliance set up the minimum standards for HDR, ANY manufacturer could claim their TV's were 'HDR' - even if all they offer was a slightly higher 300nit Peak Brightness. This has benefited many 'cheap' 4k TV's as they can claim to be HDR but maybe not from 2017 and certainly won't get UHD Premium certification.

Companies like LG, Samsung (KU series), Panasonic and Sony all have TV's that claim to be HDR or at the very least HDR compatible - but none of these are good enough to meet the minimum specs for HDR10 but can play HDR10 sources and downscale it to meet the limitations of the TV. In virtually all cases, this will still be an improvement over SDR but in some cases, the differences won't be much more than a 'brighter' overall picture rather than add all the depth and colour HDR10 approved TV's can.

I know HDR10 approved TV's are expensive but then you are paying for the fact that these meet a minimum and defined set of standards that other cannot meet. In some cases that gap could be quite minimal (missing out a bit on peak brightness and/or blacks bot being as 'black') or quite vast - only a slight increase in backlight - No wider colour gamut, no 10 bit colours etc etc...

LG's OLED's are HDR10 approved and as NO TV can yet meet the optimum standards of HDR10, NO TV can offer the full benefits of DV. The OLEDs, with DV, can play DV material but at the same standards (essentially) as HDR10. The chip inside downgrades DV content to the standards of the TV. No TV has 12bit Panel or the much higher peak brightness that DV want to bring eventually to HDR but as a 4,000nit monitor (the kind that Studios use to master HDR10) needs to be water cooled and very power hungry, we are still a good few years away from meeting HDR10's optimum standards - let alone DV.

@BAMozzy: wow thanks for taking the time to explain me everything , so should i enable hdr pro anyway or stay to standart tv profile? because in hdr mode i can't change colors etc

@BAMozzy: Fair enough. Thanks for the info.

I don't think a 10-bit panel was ever in the range of something I wanted to spend, as long as it's going to be compatible and I'll see some benefit I'm okay with only having spent £500.

Upgrading from a pretty old 1080p anyway so it should be a decent leap.

@ranjas: Most HDR TV's need to enable HDR content to be recognised and play. If you don't turn it on, consoles don't recognise the TV as HDR compatble/enabled. With my Samsung, I have to turn on HDMI UHD Colour for the HDMI port that HDR content could play on. This is also the case for the standard PS4 now it has HDR support.

Some TV's though have a Pseudo HDR mode - this takes content mastered in SDR and artificially makes it appear more like HDR content . It sounds like that may well be the case with the LG as its a separate mode from 'Standard' which I assume plays the content as mastered.

I admit I don't have experience with that TV so probably not the vest person to ask. If it changes normal SDR content to look brighter, more like HDR, then personally I wouldn't use it as I prefer to watch content as close to the mastered version as possible. Sometimes HDR+ (a pseudo HDR mode on my Samsung) looks great but because its not mastered for HDR, it can look a bit odd too...

If its required for HDR content, then I would always use it specifically then.

@Neurotic_Biotic: There is no right or wrong but what you are happy with and can afford. Most of the 'HDR' TV's will still offer more than a non-HDR TV can - even if its just a slightly higher contrast ratio and a overall brighter looking image.

@BAMozzy: i have 3 options low medium and high , and all make the color darker ( in normal tv ) haven't tested it with hdr content yet

@BAMozzy: I have the lesser version of the set ranjas has, and the panel has been confirmed by rtings to be 10-bit fwiw.

@ranjas: If you go into full settings with the TV in HDR mode (any of the three presets), you can alter colour balance and stuff.

RTING's hasn't reviewed the UH625v! However the Specs can be found (for ANY TV) here - http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/226650b

This states very clearly that the UH625v is an 8Bit IPS Panel and IPS panels are good for viewing angles but not so great at delivering the 'best' black levels - certainly not to the standard required for HDR10 accreditation.

For several years some TVs and computer monitors have been “faking” 10-bit color. It wasn’t true 10-bit as there was no 10-bit source material. Essentially what they’d do is flash two adjacent colors, and your brain would think there was a color shown in between those two. It’s (oddly) called Frame Rate Control (FRC), a form of dithering. These TV's 'claimed' they were 10bit but they are not TRUE or FULL 10bit!

What model do you have?

@BAMozzy: 610v (or 6100 over there). I agree with the rest of your post by the way.

I think it got 6.8 for HDR gaming and I can tell the difference when it's enabled, especially in UC4. I wish I could have spent more but with €1k+ on PSVR, this and the Pro next week followed by Xmas, dems da breaks.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/uh6100

"Color Depth Show Help : 10 Bit
The color gradient is pretty good for an 8 bit panel. There are not any banding issues that we can see from our gradient pattern. The only little imperfections that you can see when looking at the picture are more related to the gray uniformity.

Update 09/30/2016: Our original test was showing an incorrect color depth of 8 bit due to some incorrect drivers on our system, but after some correction to our test apparatus, we tested again the color depth and we can confirm that the LG UH6100 does in fact have an 10 bit panel."

I assume that a more expensive set in the same family will use similar tech.

The 610 has an 8bit panel according to http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/a0d951f which is why the drivers indicated that it was an 8bit panel but it also users FRC to give a 10bit colour depth.

It also only manages to hit around 400nits so is not HDR10 but that doesn't mean that it can't offer at least some level of enhancement over SDR. It certainly won't be as big of an upgrade as a HDR10 approved TV can offer and not even close to the level that Sony has been demonstrating the PS4 Pro is capable of on their ZD9 TV's

Like I have said though, there is no right or wrong. Whether these TV's can claim 'HDR' going forward or be classed as HDR compatible as they cannot deliver the minimum standards required for HDR10 (let alone Dolby Vision). When these TV's were made, HDR was not defined by a set of parameters and therefore any TV could claim they were HDR id they could play the material (even though its mastered to much higher standards) and be 'brighter' than SDR.

It would be like a TV claiming to be UHD at 1200p because its higher than 1080p or before HD specs, claiming to be HD at 600p as its higher than 576p that SD was at.

@BAMozzy: I'm a bit confused with the model names due to the different regions (I'm not sure if Malaysia follows the US or the UK when it comes to model names) but does this model meet the Ultra HD Premium standard? What about the input lag?

http://www.samsung.com/my/tv/KS7000/?modelCode=UA49KS7000KXXM

The link is Samsung's official Malaysia site.

@WanderingBullet: The model you linked is the same as the UK KS7000 and ALL of Samsungs KS series are UHD Premium certified. If in doubt, look for this logo when shopping.

That's the one guarantee that it (or any) meets HDR10 standards

@BAMozzy: Thanks. My friend told me he saw it at a store for around 1500USD. I'll wait till the price drops.

I have a good recommendation for the budget minded gamer, as I have now received my TV and experienced it firsthand.

The Hisense 55H8C 55" 4KTV with HDR10 Support

My Review
I was a little skeptical of buying a brand I wasn't familiar with. But then I looked at the features and mostly positive reviews and decided for $500, why not. After I bought it, my brother tells me this is the one he'd been eyeing at the store- said it had a picture better than all the Samsungs and Sonys with quantum dots and all that... even looked almost as good as OLED. I wondered how this was possible, but I had to admit the picture did look excellent.

Apparently this Hisense uses a VA panel which allows for super dark blacks, which is partly how it achieves such an amazing picture. VA panels have their drawbacks- you sacrifice viewing angle (which is why reviews cite picture degradation when viewed from an angle) but if you're sitting directly in front of this TV, it looks absolutely amazing. I never have a whole group of people watching with me anyways, and certainly never from an angle. But it is something to note- if you plan to have people watching from 30-45 degree angles (or more), check it out in a store first and see if you're ok with how it looks. I am no videophile and even I can see the degradation from sharp angles (tends to start losing a little color as you pivot to the side) but, if you plan to watch it straight on, take advantage of this VA panel that gives you incredible level of blacks without the baggage of OLED (like temporary image retention and larger input lag).

The HDR... need to talk about that. So ok, the TV interprets HDR10 format, which is what most HDR sources use. You update the TV via wifi and it gets patched in. But just know that the official Ultra HD Premium logo for "true HDR" requires 1000 nits peak brightness while this TV only hits around 440 (which is still good mind you- 1,000 is just an insane number and because this TV has such incredibly dark blacks the contrast ratio is really good) and the new wide color gamut, which uses rec2020 color spectrum while this TV still uses the traditional rec709. Honest opinion though, if you're an average Joe user like me, the wide color gamut isn't really a big deal. This TV does indeed use a 10 bit panel though, not 8-bit. So while you won't get HDR that takes it to such extremes like a $1200 Samsung, you do get a moderate taste of it, all in a $500 package which is basically unheard of. Besides, I'm not interested in a TV as bright as a light bulb lol. I'd rather have dark blacks than super bright whites. I've tried the HDR on my PS4 and it's definitely noticeable. I mean, the colors pop more and you can see detail in areas otherwise too bright and washed out... even if it's a toned down HDR it still makes it look noticeably better. And honestly, after all the horror stories of HDR making games look worse from being too dark and bright in areas, I rather appreciate a more toned down effect that enhances rather than taking center stage.

As for other features... the local dimming doesn't have that many zones. But still, any local dimming at all is appreciated at this price point. I watched Civil War last night and the black bars on top and bottom, they looked so black it matched the black border of the TV itself. It was crazy. When the TV is on but has no signal, you can't even tell it's on. Which is just incredible. There are 4 HDMI ports, but only 3 and 4 are HDMI 2.0 which support 4K @60Hz. I only need one for my PS4. And next year when Scorpio releases it will get the other one. All normal HDMI like Wii U and Switch can use HDMI 1 and 2 with a splitter.

Some reviews say the sound isn't that great, and maybe it isn't for people who are really into having a top notch audio experience. But me, I think the sound is absolutely brilliant, especially given the price of the TV. It's way better than my previous Vizio HDTV, that's for sure. It offers TotalSonics, TotalSurround and TotalVolume. I prefer to use all 3 in tandem for best effect.

In the end, you get what you pay for. And right now if you want "true HDR" it's gonna cost you $1000 and up ( though there are deals to be found). But if you're already buying PS4 Pro, and aren't looking to spend another $1000 - $1500 on a TV, I honestly think this is about the best bang for your buck you can find. No it's not the best TV out there. No it's not going to offer the same quality as a Samsung KS8000. But it's also not going to cost you as much either. And given the price it offers a fairly competitive picture with those higher-priced models. The low price and high-quality comes at the cost of certain drawbacks like viewing angle, and of course it doesn't meet the peak 1000 nit brightness or include rec2020, but with the extreme blacks offered through a VA panel, being 10-bit and not 8, offering at least some local dimming and at least a moderate taste of HDR, you won't find a better value for $500 in my opinion.

So for anyone who wants to keep it $499, I submit this for your consideration.

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BestBuy Link
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisense-55-class-54-6-diag--led-2...

I can feel myself cracking and think the purchase of a 4K set this month is inevitable now.

I still like this one:

http://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-ue55ks8000-suhd-hdr-1-000-4k...

I know that's a good choice but should I think about another brand/model for equivalent features?

Also wondering if I should wait until "black Friday" to see if there are any discounts.

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televi...

Any thoughts on this one? They seem..on par really apart from the stand isn't as pretty.

@kyleforrester87: There is very little difference between the KS7000 and KS8000 in terms of PQ. Both have the same panel, both HDR10, both have similar input lag and offer the same connectivity etc. According to Samsung, the 8000 is supposed to have 'superior' dimming, Peak Brightness and Motion and whilst the blacks and peak brightness maybe ever so slightly better, the reality is that you would need some sophisticated equipment too detect that.

The Sound is another area that's different. The 7000 has a 40w 2.1 speaker system and the 8000 has a 60w 4.1 Speaker system. The 8000 also features a twin tuner so if you want to record to a USB device whilst watching another freeview channel, then the 8000 will allow you too do so.

The only other difference is cosmetic really - the 7000 features the wide feet stand where as the 8000 has the 'floating' stand. I haven't looked at the back of the 7000 myself but the 8000 has a 360 degree design and the back is designed to look good to. I know its rare that you actually look at the back but if any is on show, it looks good - at least that the philosophy.

Value for money the 7000 is probably better - especially if you wall mount, use a soundbar and never use freeview. The 8000 is better but the difference in PQ is minimal so it really depends on whether you want/need any of the 'extras' it offers or have that much to spend!

Hope that helps.