Topic: 4k TV Recommendations

@JohnnyShoulder The model I got was the Q7F. Not sure if it's the same as the Q70R you've mentioned. I'm still using the standard PS4 but so far been it's been good for both gaming and watching Netflix.

@WanderingBullet Just did a quick Google and the Q70R is this years update to the Q7R. I will be using a base ps4 with it too until ps5 is out.

Have you used voice controls with it much? And what is Ambilight like?

@JohnnyShoulder I've only used the voice controls a couple of times initially but haven't since. Sorry, but I don't know what ambilight is.

@JohnnyShoulder Samsung TV's don't have Ambilight as that is a Philips trademark. I certainly don't think they have something similar either or have heard anyone mention it in reviews etc but I don't own the very model you are contemplating so I can't say that I am 100% certain its not got some built in Bias Lighting.

I have never used voice controls on anything - inc Kinect when that was around. Both my TV and Sky I believe have voice controls and I won't use it so I can't answer that.

The Samsung Q series - at least from the 7 upwards, are great gaming TV's. What sets Samsung up there is not just the extremely low input lag but also the VRR (Variable Refresh Rate) but that doesn't matter right now if all you have is a PS4. Its difficult to know if the TV will be the 'best' TV for PS5 or not until we know what the PS5 can do. If its 4k at up to 120fps and you want to take advantage of that, you need HDMI 2.1 otherwise, the best you can hope for at 4k is 60fps. HDMI2.0 doesn't have the bandwidth for more than 60fps at 4k so you may miss out on high frame rate gaming unless you have HDMI2.1 ports.

I haven't researched the Q70 TV myself so it may have or has promised to update its HDMI ports to 2.1 but based on the limited information we have been given, the PS5 will have HDMI 2.1 - its necessary for 'up to' 8k as both Sony and MS have stated their next gen consoles will do. I know that 8k isn't probably on your radar as far as a TV is concerned at the moment but if the console can output at 8k, then it must have HDMI 2.1 which also means the console could output 4k at up to 120fps. With VRR, any frame rate above 60fps will be incredible - no screen tear or judder because the TV is refreshing with every new frame. It means Devs don't have to cap frame rates to 30fps or 60fps to fit in with a TV's refresh rate.

TV's have a fixed Refresh Rate (at least most right now) so anything that isn't 60fps (or 30fps which means every TV refresh shows the same frame twice) either screen tears because only some of it was ready or you get judder because the frame is 'lost' so it jumps to the next frame hence judder. With Variable Refresh Rate, the TV refreshes every time it has a new frame to display. Therefore it has the same refresh rate as the games frames per second. If the game is running at 55fps, then your TV is refreshing 55 times per second so you don't get screen tear or judder. It means the Devs could cap the frame rate at 50fps for example to ensure that it runs smoothly instead of having those moments where the game hitches and drops down to 50fps because it can't hold 60fps consistently.

Anyway, the Q70 I believe has VRR and, if its like last years models, VRR works for the games that are 45fps or more - not that it matters if you only have a PS4 as the only console that currently works with VRR is the XB1X. Never the less though, the Q series still have the best input lag of all TV's. It also comes with a 10yr guarantee against image retention/screen burn too so the Samsung Q series are probably the best gaming TV's on the market and certainly offer a great HDR experience too - which will benefit you as the PS4 does offer HDR and Netflix/Amazon Prime both have some great HDR content too.

@WanderingBullet Ah yeah I was looking at Philips TVs at the same time I got confused. Ambilight and that sound a bit gimmicky to me anyway.

@BAMozzy Thanks for the extensive reply. That is the one thing that is holding me back, the lack of HDMI 2.1. support at the moment. But I don't think I will be able to find a perfect telly that ticks all the boxes for me, so there will always be something that is missing.

I like that it has dirct backlighting rather than just being edge lit, as I hear that can cause some issues with blooming etc.

@JohnnyShoulder I don't think there is any TV that ticks all the boxes for me either but I am also not in a position that I need to buy a 4k TV either. Mine is a few years old so doesn't have some of the features (like VRR) but I can make do until I know exactly what the next gen consoles offer (HDMI 2.1 for example) and, when I do upgrade, it will be replacing my 2014 bedroom TV. My current 4K TV will go to the bedroom and then the lounge will get the newest. As you can see, that doesn't make sense to upgrade now (unless something really happens to my current TV's) and can bide my time.

One thing to consider though is that in January we will get a good idea of what 2020's TV's will offer before launching around March. I know that maybe a while away but if the consoles don't release until Nov 2020 as it seems, and if you can make do until Nov 2020, you could get a HDMI 2.1 TV with the bells and whistles during Black Friday. If you wait until Black Friday this year, you may find the TV you want cheaper or better still, be able to afford a bigger size to benefit more from the 4k image.

As far as Edge vs FALD, both are equally susceptible to bloom/bleed - more so with FALD because the backlight is much closer to the screen. The advantage is more to do with Movies because the black bars don't need to have the backlight on underneath the bars so they remain black and consistent where as with edge-lighting, they still need to be on to illuminate the picture in the middle of the screen so the black bars can be a bit more uneven. If you have a bright logo (like a loading icon in the bottom corner) or bright text (like the end credits) on a black background, you can still get bleed/bloom regardless of whether its FALD or Edge lit. The text or Logo will NOT line up perfectly with the zone(s) they are in but the backlight still needs to be on to illuminate the logo/text. All the black around the letters/logo will still have the backlight on below it and therefore can have bleed/bloom. The main difference though us that Edge lighting, whilst it may be bigger in terms of screen cover and fade naturally to black, FALD will be restricted to just the zone(s) that need to be illuminated and instead of fading to black, will have a sharp cut off so it doesn't spread far. Depending on how well the TV's dimming algorithm works will depend on whether the 'bleed/bloom is very obvious or not. If its aggressive, it will dim the Logo/text (turn down the backlight) to preserve more of the black. That's great in the two examples I gave (loading logo or end credits) but for a starry night sky with lots of very small stars, an aggressive dimming algorithm will make a lot of those stars so dim they disappear so only the very brightest stars remain - its either that or the night sky is more grey than black.

Depending on the quality of the local dimming, an Edge lit TV can look much better than a FALD TV. Sony is a great example with the XF90 vs XF93 (I think that's the right numbering - I am certain of the 90 vs 93 though). The 90 was a 40 zone (as in 40 backlights behind the panel) FALD TV whilst the more expensive TV was edge-lit but the 90 suffered more bleed/bloom issues. The new 'Z' TV that replaces the older ZD TV - the ZD often regarded as the Best FALD TV with more dimming zones than any of its competition, is very poor. Its still a FALD TV but because the panel has been changed to get much wider viewing angles, it has far more trouble getting 'black' and much more issues with bloom/bleed as a result.

I think of Edge lit more like a 'candle' flame that is often depicted with having a halo of light around it and fades naturally the further away from the flame it is where as FALD will fade until it reaches the end of the zone and be cut off with a straight edge. There was an example of this when someone compared the DX902 vs KS9500 (or 9800 - both the same TV but numbered differently in Europe) for 'bloom' - both FALD and it was of a crescent of light at the top edge of a silhouetted planet and a starry sky. The Planet, being black with this bright arc across the screen had dark grey boxes under the arc where the edge of each zone ended and below that, it was black. The straight edges under the arc looked awful, looked almost like it was pixelated - DX902 was much more obvious of where the zones were but it also had a much less dense starry night sky compared to the KS. This was back in 2016 so really the first year of 'HDR' and UHD Premium specs but things have improved. The Q9 was excellent as far as local dimming was concerned so you didn't get the zone edges and the blacks looked incredibly black too - even in HDR. It was aggressive dimming so starry night skies were not as dense or as impressive as an OLEDs night sky but they have their weaknesses too.

Just because a TV is FALD though, doesn't mean it will be better than edge lit. If the local dimming isn't top notch, I perhaps would be more inclined to go for an edge lit because any bleed looks much more natural and will fade properly away where as a FALD will be much more noticeable and indicate exactly where each zone is. If the Dimming algorithm is top notch and have a decent array of backlights, I would certainly pick FALD over edge lit. If a TV has 1000 zones, 1000 LEDs in an array, each LED will be tasked with illuminating 8.3k pixels and with 500 zones, that means each back light illuminate 16.6k pixels on a 4k screen. Any text or logo in a zone, lets say its occupying 4000 of those pixels with the rest black, that's 4.3k with 1000 FALD lights or 12.3k with 500 FALD lights that have the light on underneath where it should be black - hence at risk from bleed/bloom.

I hope you understand and find this useful. The takeaway is that just because a TV is FALD, it doesn't necessarily mean that it delivers a better Picture Quality or exempt from bleed/bloom.

@BAMozzy Ah ok, cheers. The review I read was from someone that is a film editor, so makes sense why he preferred a direct backlit screen.

I'm not ready to buy one just yet, maybe in a couple of months or so. I have time off work in each of the next 4 months, so will want to time it with that if I do decide to get one this year. My issue with waiting until late next year is that will effect when I can buy a PS5. I probably won't be getting one at launch, was thinking the Feb the following year. If I get new tv late next year that will delay me getting a PS5.

@JohnnyShoulder I don't know how you manage your finances but if I don't buy a TV for example this year, the money I would have spent will still be there a year later but also any extra money I have saved between now and then. For example, if I have £1000 to spend on TV in a month or two but don't spend the money, I will still have that money for a TV next year but also added to that by saving the money for the PS5 between now and November 2020. It wouldn't impact me because I still have the money I was planning to use for the TV this year.

All things being equal, a great FALD will be better than a great Edge Lit TV but if the TV is more susceptible to have problems controlling the bleed, then I prefer an edge lit because the straight edges of the zones that cut off the bleed look far more unnatural and looks blocky. A great FALD also means that the black bars of movies look black where as you may see the occasional uneven blacks - particularly with HDR as the backlights have to be much brighter and therefore more difficult to control the bleed. My TV is edge lit but watching movies in SDR, the black bars remain black. At night-time, because everything is much darker, you really have to be paying attention to the bars to see any slight variation but to me that means the film you are watching isn't grabbing your attention. Its more noticeable at night with HDR but the bars are still blacker than my HD TV playing SDR movies. The VA panel is capable of delivering much darker blacks than my HD TV can at its 'best' so even the slight variations in the black bars are not distracting even with HDR. Its better than Sony's new flagship Z series that is FALD because Sony decided that for this model, they would use a panel that offers much better viewing angles instead of delivering the best Blacks it can so in general, my Edge lot beats it because there are more parts that are actually blacker than the Sony can offer - much better contrast ratio.

The point I was trying to make though is that either method of illuminating a LCD screen, either edge lit or FALD can be the 'best' when compared - it really does depend on the quality of the panel, the filters and local dimming algorithms. If the black bars are consistent but more a dark grey because the panel can't do 'blacks' well, that's not necessarily better than one that is much blacker but occasionally, if you really look, there maybe some areas that are very dark grey - not as consistent but better overall. If you can see where the zones are because of the different intensities of light needed for each zone, that doesn't make it a better viewing experience than one that has more natural light bloom that may lighten the colours a bit but at least its more naturally fading out with no sharp edges because there isn't the 'cut' off at the edges of the zones. A great quality TV would control that better regardless of the FALD vs Edge Lit and the difference could just be more even black bars with FALD but can't pick between either with full screen HDR content.

Anyway, the choice is yours at the end of the day. Knowing that I may want a new TV as well as the next gen Consoles means that I don't spend all the money I get a month and thus the amount of money I have in the bank continues to grow (hopefully). Whether I spend £1000 today for example or keep it in my bank so I have that £1000 (plus any additional savings) in a years time won't impact on my console purchase. I won't be tempted to buy something I am not entirely sure of now because in a years time I would of been tempted to blow the money on other things. In a years time, I would still have that money but, because I have continued to save for over a year, that money will give me a bigger budget to buy the console and a new TV. I hope that makes sense.

As I said, I don't know how you manage your money etc and what works for me may not work for you. In any case, I hope you find what you are looking for and you get enjoyment from it...

@BAMozzy I have more than enough in my savings account to buy it outright, but I don't want get into the habit of keep dipping into it for luxury purchases such as a new tv or games console. Hence why I want to space the purchase of a new tv and console a bit. I could always get the TV on interest free credit direct from Samsung, but from what I saw the period was too long for my liking in 24 months but i need to look at it properly as i only glanced at it. I could also use PayPal credit which I've used in the past and i know Amazon have started to offer paying in monthly instalments on some products. Richer Sounds off something similar too.

Thanks for the advice it has been helpful. I'm in no particular rush to buy it so I can take a bit of time and do some more research. I definitely more sure of what I want from when I first started looking a few days a go. It looks like a QLED is the way to go and seems to be a bit more future proof than other screen types available. As much as anything can be future proof in the technology world!

So I've whittled down my tv choice to two. Either the Samsung Q70R or the Sony KD-49XG9005. Both are 49" which is bigger than my current screen and i can get them roughly for the same price. Both have strengths and weaknesses, the main thing holding me back from the Samsung is that I hear this years models are a bit of a downgrade from last years and not good value for the money. With the Sony it has a quite a higher response time than the Samsung.

I'm sure whichever one I get will be an improvement on what I've got, it just quite a lot of money and I wanna be sure of making the right decision for me.

@JohnnyShoulder so which television did you get?
I am getting c9 Lg 65'

@Ridwaano I went for the Sony in the end, and I am very pleased with it. Low response rates are good and all, but it is not something I've ever noticed. If you are super into your FPS or a pro gamer than is probably something worth considering.

@Th3solution I replied to you here as not to derail the mental health awareness thread with 4k telly talk.

The only thing I be wary of with Samsung is they do not support Dolby Vision, one of the HDR standards, as they have there own, HDR10+. Sony does not support HDR10+, but Dolby Vision is more wildly used and recognised (Netflix use it for some of there content for instance). One of my concerns was that once I get a PS5 and I was to have a Samsung tv, I would be getting a lesser experience if PS5 did not support HDR10+ (which is very likely).

And Samsung's 2019 range seemed a bit nerfed compared to previous years, which were really good.

As far as I know LG supports both HDR standards, but I've had a few problems with LG tvs in the past, so did not research them when i was getting a new tv.

@JohnnyShoulder Thanks for the reply. Good idea to move it here.

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall hearing about the HDR issues and I forgot that Samsung does support Dolby Vision HDR. I do think I’ll be using the TV for a lot of Netflix, as well as for normal cable or local antenna TV, and a lot of watching BluRay and also for other streaming services like Disney+ and streaming or playing digital movies from iTunes and from MoviesAnywhere. Also gaming. ...So it sounds like I need a TV that does both. But the Samsung QLED tech sounds nice. And I think they are the only ones with VRR, which would be a plus for gaming next gen, I think.

Does the PS4 Pro (I don’t have one, and don’t plan to unless they PS5 is cost prohibitive) support Dolby Vision or HDR10+? And do you know if appleTV and most UHD/BluRay players support both?

This is why I have waited so long to upgrade! There are so many options and limitations that I just keep waiting for the perfect TV to drop into my lap!

Also, are you familiar with TCL TVs? LG, Samsung, and Sony seem to dominate the market buzz, but someone told me TCLs are great for the price and particularly good for gaming. Something about their better lag, but I’m not sure.

@Th3solution I don't have a Pro, but I don't think it would support HDR10+ as Sony are not supporting it as it is a Samsung developed. Most UHD discs support both, but like I say Dolby Vision is the more wildly recognised and used format. And I've never used Apple TV, or any of their devices.

I don't know much about TCL, I only researched Samsung and Sony when getting my new tv. For a major purchase like a TV I tend to go with known brands rather than unknown quantities.

I found out that a higher response/refresh rate does not really matter unless you're a pro gamer or something. That was the one negative thing holding me pack from getting my TV, but I've not noticed anything when playing games. Unless it is something ridiculous like triple figures, I think it will be OK.

You will not find a perfect TV lol. Unless you are wiling to spend thousands of dollars.

@JohnnyShoulder @Th3Solution, The general conclusion is this, if you are not a professional player or someone who will only play online competitive titles then TV refresh rates are not something to be made up over and waste time panicking about.

Also no TV is perfect, literally even £4000 OLEDs suffer from issues like burn in, so you have to think about a TV that is good enough to do what you want and will work well enough for a decent amount of time.

My LG is amazing for gaming and is running well, like any LED screen there is almost always bound to be some small amount of ghosting/judder but it never is noticable unless you avidly search for that and only that and not play the actual game on hand.

The best thing to do if you are gaming is get a 4K IPS Monitor however for the price you could argue getting a 4K TV is a much better purchase along with how more useful they are in Bedrooms and Living rooms etc aswell as their smart functionalities, built in speakers and being good for watching Films and TV.

I would say to limit your brands down to 3, LG, Samsung and TLC.

LG are highly regarded by many as the leading company in the TV business and for good reason, they make great quality TVs that feel a lot more premium that the majority of it's competition and have good options and settings for any customer, be it films, games, music it has it all for you and it has one of the most responsive smart OS systems out there.

Samsung are the biggest competitor alongside LG and are great for gaming and general usage aswell, they have some amazing panel technology and are probably one of the best companies around for response time. However like Johnny said they do have issues with HDR compatibility that may ruin picture quality and the enjoyment for the viewer in question.

TCL are a fast growing brand who have broken out onto the market with arguably the best budget Gaming TVs out there right now, they are one of the top three biggest TV manufacturers in America and this has all been built off their ever growing reputation of putting out solid TV units with fast response times and crisp visuals, they are more of a risk than the other two as I believe a lot of their units are imported from America via third party marketplaces compared to buying LG and Samsung TVs so it may be more ideal to go for one of the other brands as TV prices are more competitive than ever.

But regardless of what one you go for it is good to narrow it down to one or two models from each brand and do extensive research on them to find out, my LG was picked after 3 weeks research into the specs, reviews and more but it was all worth it in the end with how good this TV is.

@JohnnyShoulder @DonJorginho Thanks for the advice. It’s given me some to think about. I’m at that stage where no matter what I get, it’ll be a substantial upgrade.

@Th3solution My only piece of advice for you, if going for a TV more than 49", be wary of what panel it uses.

LG TVs 50 inchs plus use a VA panel which is a cheaper panel prone to more issues and has less colour balance and richness as an IPS panel, but may sometimes have better response times.

@Th3solution I was at the exact same stage as you, and was getting a Samsung until I heard that the 2019 models felt a bit of a downgrade in some places.

@DonJorginho I’m probably going for 49 or smaller. I’ll keep that in mind though.

@JohnnyShoulder Yeah, I figured it was a slam dunk to just get a Samsung, but now I’m leaning toward LG. You had some bad experience with LG in the past?