Topic: The Last Of Us Part II - OT (No Spoilers)

@LN78 @nessisonett I've no time for those that criticise the story just because they didn't get the one they wanted or saying the game is disrespectful to fans. But for many I think as much as they loved the characters they accepted there could be consequences for their actions in the first game. But it's the sadistic manner those consequences played out to engender a high level of hate. Then to have the player not just to question those feelings but feel bad about them is what I think riled lots of people up. I'll give ND the artistic licence to communicate their theme's. But I don't blame anyone if they feel it's cheap.

@LN78 With this game being focused on story, sometimes they use tactics that invoke emotion, this is done everywhere, in TV and in pretty much every book i've read, their techniques simply differ in the way they do it. I think they actually took a common trope and made it a bit different and truthfully I appreciated what they did. I would not say its perfect as there are things I would still say could be improved but I really believe the storyline was well-written.

It is interesting to read a contrasting take on the game, but at times it does feel like I've played a completely different game. Like most of your criticisms are totally alien to me. But hey ho, opinions and all that.

I've just finished replaying The Last of Us 1 and I have even more appreciation for the sequel now, Joel is even more of a prick then I remembered to be honest and a lot of the complaints I see around make even less sense to me now, as some could be labelled at the first but never are. Mechanically I feel the 2nd is a big step up and the AI on the first is insanely stupid, I've just go through on survivor+ and it never felt like a challenge.

I did play it back when it was first released and can see why it was praised then, I don't think it holds up as well today purely from a gameplay standpoint. I think they've improved everything in the sequel from the gameplay to the world building and I cared about all of the characters more, the story is more interesting, I mean without that ending in part 1 really holds it all together. Still a good game but Part 2 is incredible for me

@carlos82 Yeah, I thought Joel was pretty damn selfish to be honest, I don’t even think it was about Ellie as a person, he was more trying to make up for the death of his daughter. I still would have done the same thing but perhaps let the people go that were just doing their jobs.

Indeed. I thought the story in RDR2 was clichéd and predictable.
TLOU2 plotline isn't particularly original, but it is an exercise in empathy that can exist in no other medium.

They both land in my top 5 games I've ever played. But I especially like dark, nihilistic, and dystopian themes in narrative entertainment. Which certainly not everyone does. Also 3rd person stealth action games are my favourite genre, which again helps a lot.

It feels like a lot of games that try something different from the status quo get labeled as pretentious. Same thing happened with Death Stranding, and I ended up enjoying that as well, and partly because it was unlike most games out there.

Ghost of Tsushima looks good, but at the same time there's a chance it'll fall in the ''Ubisoft open world'' category. Because I haven't seen a lot that convinces me it isn't. Maybe it'll surprise me, and it does look pretty, but that gets you only so far.

So I rather have another ''pretentious game'' if that means another TLOU2 or Death Stranding

Well after playing TLOU 2 for the past few days i can safely say WTF is up with all the hate? This game is awesome! Okay yeah the first hour was rough and by that i don't mean the difficulty and there's definitely some come uppins due to a certain character. Can't wait for that! I usually tend to like darker story lines in games and movies too so it's not surprising i would enjoy this. I'm reminded of another time a darker sequel was hated by most that i also liked. Prince of persia warrior within. Now that one got some hate!

Anyway TLOU 2 is right up there on my sequels done right list! I may not agree with some stuff but hey it's not my story to tell. That's up to the creators and if that's how they wanted it i support that. Anyway I'm having a good time so whatever. I'll just see how the rest of this game goes and then decide what i think.

@LN78 When that happens you have no idea who he belongs to or have any connection to him. At that point it is just another random dog trying to kill you. It is only after you play as Abbey that you form a bond with him, that is when you would feel guilty about it. Sorry if you found it as immature writing, but I found it to be the exact opposite. It wasn't easy to play through at times, but it is not supposed to be. Nor are we supposed to be rooting for any character as they have all done horrible things over the course of the game, with the exception of maybe Dina. By the end of the game one of the things I felt was confused as i did not know who to empathise with, but I liked that. It is rare for a video game to make me feel the way I did when I played this game, I usually have almost no strong emotion when I finish something (more often than not it is just a sense of relief lol). I don't think that would be possible if the game was written like you say it was. If you compare it to something like Star Wars The Rise of the Skywalker which I think was some those things you describe, you might see where I am coming from.

I never did play RDR2 for that long as I could not get used to the controls. I play games for gameplay first and foremost, if that does not gel with me I struggle to play a game no matter the quality of the story or the presentation.

@LN78 Yep it was awesome moment, I agree.

@LN78 This whole dog thing is bit silly, if it had been a lovable pet that you kill for no reason then there would be a issue. But they not and people need to realise these dogs were not there to be a pet and its pretty clear in the game that their primary reason and job of all the dogs the WLF have are guard/attack dogs. Therefor ND got the whole thing correct because any guard dog in the real world would have attacked you any any of the situations they do as you were someone that shouldn't have been there and that's what the dog is trained to do as it would have seen you as a threat.

Like any real world guard dogs they like any other normal pet dog still like to play, chase balls etc. Any Police/Army dog handler would have the same or stronger bond with their dogs as shown in the game and its not unheard of for these dogs to get attacked or die in the line of duty that their job.

@LN78 Then you could argue if a player had a choice the impact of realising what you had done would not be there. For me it worked perfectly for what the developers had intended. I still felt bad about what happened, just because it was a QTE did not lessen that feeling for me. It is similar to the first game, you have no choice of what Joel does near the end which makes the ending so impactful.

@JohnnyShoulder I sat there for a few minutes trying to find a way around killing the surgeons. I ended up chucking a brick at one and then using the melee, that way they might have just been knocked out.

@LN78 Eh? I didn't say the game decides the rightness of Joel's decision? That is obviously upto the player to decide. If the player had the choice to decide not to do what Joel does, the end scene makes less sense and loses its impact.

Ummm, OK. I think there is a bit more to it then you giving it credit for. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this as I think we are in danger of going round in circles.

@JohnnyShoulder I dunno, I felt that the ending in the hospital had too many notes that justified Joel’s position, with all the stuff from Marlene and the doctors, saving Ellie make more sense since it wasn’t guaranteed they could even get a vaccine. In reality, Joel wouldn’t have pissed about looking for Marlene’s diary and probably would have just rushed straight to the operating theatre 😂😂

@LN78 @JohnnyShoulder
"Homo homini lupus".
Sic et sempliciter.

The sentence was about Ellie and Abby.
In my opinion both of them have their reasons to fight each other, but our point of view while playing Part 2 is obviously influenced by the fact we played Part 1 only as Joel and Ellie, not as Abby and her father.

@nessisonett the impression I got was that having Ellie was a major step towards a vaccine. Granted there was that bit about them asking Marlene to kill Joel but either he never listens to that or he does and murders Marlene knowing she spared him

@SincereMan Read the title: NO SPOILERS.

At least use spoiler tags...

Here's how to spoiler tag @SincereMan so no one accidentally reads your post and gets spoiled in this no spoilers chat

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@SincereMan For point one this video is pretty good at explaining the thinking around this, skip to 13:50, what Troy Baker says about that is pretty interesting especially about his own performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6rRfK-V2jY