Topic: Final fantasy discussion thread

@Pizzamorg I feel exactly the same the same way, still wondering how it got great reviews when the design flaws are really this obvious.

It is like all these people played the first couple of hours and reviewed it based on that. Playing as much of the game as I have, I feel like I would have a hard time justifying giving the game a 7 (if I scored games like that), instead the bulk of the reviews are 8s and 9s, making it one of the highest rated games of the year to me and this is just madness as far as I am concerned.

I appreciate people can like different things, and I suppose seeing a game as very shallow is still potentially a matter of taste, but when its a Final Fantasy game, I just dunno how you can just ignore the limitations and shortcomings this has and slap a high score on it anyway. It is missing fundamental, core, parts of what makes an RPG an RPG. And you could argue it is just an action game and needs to be measured against that only, but even then, you are telling me this is a 9 out of 10 action game? It has only one combo!

@Ralizah I can totally understand why some people are liking the structure, God of War’s reboot struck a chord with a lot of people after all, but it obfuscates the journey for me and makes the world feel smaller. Another pet peeve, the game’s unflinching refusal to have any people of colour doesn’t gel with the world’s clear multiple cultures. They even do the wee music jingle while showing the desert kingdom, real Agrabah vibes, and then when you walk around everybody’s talking like they’re from Sheffield. Also just the fact that for all Yoshi-P’s nonsense about black people not fitting the world or something, it’s all just because there’s slavery at every turn that isn’t motivated by race and it would require better writers to navigate that without massive controversy.

@nessisonett I miss when big-budget JRPGs were grand, world-spanning adventures that invited you to plumb their depths while maintaining just enough structure to feel like you were consistently making progress. You get that with Xenoblade Chronicles and little else these days.

I thought God of War was alright, but it's not what I want Final Fantasy to be. And even GoW would have been better if it loosened up a bit and allowed more naturalistic exploration/dungeon-crawling than it did. The best parts of that game were always non-story bits.

God of War Ragnarok at least is a deeper RPG than FF16 and a way better action game, while also I would argue delivering a far stronger story and set of characters as well.

@Pizzamorg How would you say the structure and pacing are compared to the 2018 one? I liked the previous one a lot when it wasn't doing the Uncharted thing where it was leading me by the nose between setpieces. The optional dungeons and realms are where the game shined for me.

I would say that's a more difficult comparison to draw, mostly because I don't exactly like 2018. FF16 doesn't block your progress with tedious, one solution, puzzles either. At least not so far. However, I'd argue the combat was still much deeper in 2018 GOW than it is in FF16 and you had a much more tangible suite of RPG systems which felt light by typical RPG standards, but are as deep as a canyon compared to what FF16 offers.

Pacing is kind of more complicated to answer, because in 2018, a lot of the pacing mechanisms are mandatory. Whereas in FF16 you could probably skip most of the side quests if you wanted and probably have a much better experience, I just get weird OCD about doing that.

Set pieces also feel generally more plentiful and grander in FF16, but I would say GOW finds more variety in theirs or at least more smoke and mirrors to give the illusion of variety, whereas FF16 seems to pull from a small deck of cards.

@Pizzamorg I'm so sorry; I was asking for comparisons between Ragnarok and 2018. I should have been clearer.

It's pretty incredible to hear how light FFXVI is on RPG systems, though, if even GoW2018 stands out in comparison!

Oh, night and day. I LOVE Ragnarok, one of my favourite games ever. It is basically everything I wanted 2018 to be. If you had any issues with 2018, Ragnarok fixes it.

And yeah, in FF16 there basically are no RPG systems. It is very weird.

I tried to play a little more FF16 yesterday and I do have to admit that I’m having trouble getting into it. After the initial hype has been brought crashing down by some of the game’s shortcomings, I feel the wind taken out of its sails at the moment. I wonder if I’m a little burned out on the AAA grandiose epics right now.

Been dropping in on this thread every now and then and I do feel that it’ll have served as a useful gauge for when I get around to playing FFXVI. I don’t pre-order many games but did this as I was pretty hyped… so much so, that I decided to save it for my 150th platinum. Well, judging from most peoples thoughts here, I may have picked the wrong game for that particular benchmark… but at least I’ll be going in with realistic expectations.

@Pizzamorg Hm. I should pick up Ragnarok at some point. I liked 2018 enough to platinum it, so, theoretically, I should like this one even more.

@Th3solution I have a few Sony first-party epics just sitting around on my shelf collecting dust. That type of game is fine, but I find I need to be in the mood for them, and that mood doesn't crop up too often.

Need to soon, though. The real question is whether I play Spider-Man GOTY or Ghost of Tsushima DC first.

I would say it is probably more down to the games awful pacing. It sends you down an epic rollercoaster, then you get off in some kind of liminal void they call a hub location for you to press x to sand three times and waste hours earning 5xp and 50000000000 teeth you'll never use, before they let you back on the rollercoaster again.

And then by the third time of doing this loop you realise you aren't even going on a new rollercoaster, you are just going on the same one over and over, and now the thrill of that loop de loop feels cold because you know it is coming.

There is an argument to be made about the homogenisation of gaming, but that isn't FF16's problem, FF16's problem is it feels like a lost game from 15 years ago someone has done on a remaster of. Being freed of all the modern bloat should be refreshing, but the game isn't just devoid of modern bloat, it is devoid of all things.... a blackhole where substance goes to die. You end up craving that same bloat you thought you were running from, just to have anything meaningful to engage with at all.

I gotta say, I think the game is absolutely fantastic! This is an action game through and through and an excellent one at that. It’s admittedly a streamlined experience and a slow burn to boot, with simple gameplay systems flowering out at a snails pace, but I’ve found the narrative and world building more than compelling enough to strap in for the journey there.

The combat system is fast, fluid and - most crucially - fun. It’s beautiful in its simplicity, revolving entirely around chaining moves together and maintaining your combo stream in order to stagger your opponent, at which point a damage multiplier is applied and you get to really rack up some numbers. That’s it. The fun is in how you accomplish this though. Due to the games overall moderate difficulty, you kind of get out what you put in, so to speak. One could theoretically mash square the whole way through the game but where’s the fun in that? Instead, you’re provided with all the means to keep your flow on and I’m honestly finding it pretty satisfying.

Anyway, I’m finding a lot to enjoy in this. It’s epic beyond reason, tells an engaging and thematically rich story, has a rock solid combat system, beautiful graphics and art design, a score to die for and has easily become one of my favourite Final Fantasy’s.

@colonelkilgore I wouldn't exactly gauge what people think about FF16 based on this thread alone. In fact, most people think it's a fantastic game. For starters, the reviews: https://opencritic.com/game/14516/final-fantasy-xvi

Second, other Push Square members: https://www.pushsquare.com/features/poll-what-review-score-wo...

It's a great game no matter if you're a Final Fantasy fan or not. If you're an FF fan, you'll love how much Final Fantasy the story is. Crystals, summons, magic, it's all here. And if you're not an FF fan, you'll love just how epic the story is. The first 10 hours is an absolute joy ride. Then it opens up for more side content, which gets better the more you play, while still offering more epic story moments. So I definitely think you should be hyped for this game. If you like intense action, epic boss fights, exceptional orchestral music and an engaging story, then you'll like this game.

I haven't talked much about the game lately but that's because I'm close to wrapping it up after nearly 70 hours of playtime and I want to save my thoughts for after I'm done with the game. I am curious though to see how attainable the Platinum trophy is. Currently, I have 34/50 trophies. I'll probably won't bother if there's a trophy for beating the game on NG+ (even though I've heard it's supposedly really good) or if you have to complete some of the side content that I'm not interested in.

@Jimmer-jammer welcome back mate, missed you around here ☺️

@LtSarge so I wouldn’t call myself a massive Final Fantasy stan… but I really liked FFVII Remake and FFXV. I’m always happy to have my expectations checked though… it’s never a bad thing as far as I’m concerned. If it’s as good as I was hoping, I’ll probably enjoy it all the more for the lowered expectations, while if I do find the game disappointing… at least I was warned 😉

@colonelkilgore Thanks! It’s good to be back. I think tempering your expectations is a safe bet. I can completely understand how this particular brand of Final Fantasy might rub some the wrong way. It’s not an RPG by any stretch, there’s really no ‘level design’ to speak of, side quests (especially early on) are hilariously basic, it’s a slow burn to a fault (seriously, the first 45 minutes of the game consists of pushing up on the analog stick complete with instructions on how to do this), there’s hardly a gear system…Yet what’s here manages to come together beautifully once the game hits its stride many hours in. Provided you’re willing to go along for the ride, you’ll surely have a memorable and satisfying 150th platinum on the pile.

@Ralizah Yes, I’m sure I have a lot of those same Sony epics on the shelf, and many third party ones as well. I’m looking at Horizon Forbidden West with the same apprehension as I am FF16. And I’ve yet to polish off Jedi Survivor. I also still lack the Ragnarok notch in my belt.

Playing a couple AA/indie games lately in Tacoma, Tchia, and Stray, I’ve really gleaned some satisfaction from gaming that I didn’t realize I was missing. The thought of another 80 hr marathon just gives me heartburn.

@Pizzamorg If and when I decide to jump headfirst into the FF16 pool, I’ll try to ignore the side activities, as it sounds like they are an avoidable problem with the game. But I suffer from the same obsessive tendencies as you in these games with lists of side content. The urge to do it all and clear the map or the quest log is what has ruined many a game for me, like Witcher 3 and Yakuza 0, for example. I’m sure if I just mainline the story I’d get a lot of enjoyment out of some of these games, but it’s really hard to make myself do it.

Like @LtSarge said, I wouldn't use this thread to get that good of an idea on the game. It is strangely pretty negative outside of a handful of us who are genuinely loving the game. Obviously I'm not criticizing people as not everybody is going to love it no matter what, but the game is definitely better than the impression given here by some. It is what it is though, and it's not like it takes away from our enjoyment.

I will say one thing for sure though. There are other RPGs that have FAR worse side quests than this does. Yes, some are overly basic and repetitive. Yes, some other games like Horizon Forbidden West do it better, but there are some genuinely really good side quests here too, and games like Xenoblade Chronicles 1 & 2 have way worse and way more repetitive ones.

@Th3solution Looking at Horizon Forbidden West with apprehension? You're dead to me. Logging on to delete you off of my friends... wait, never mind.

Playing the game yesterday made me realize two things which sour the experience for me. When I play rpgs I look everywhere for treasure. There is none in this game. If I acutally find a chest there is a very slim chance it's something interesting let alone useful. But even after 50 hours with the game I still get my hopes up and get let down, and those moments start to pile on even though I now try to tell myself that this is not that kind of game.

The other thing is the barebone customization. With no extra party members I was expecting a fleshed out tech tree. Sure there are some skills to choose from but you can only equip few of them at the same time. I wish they would have been more fleshed out and given us decisions to tailor skills to be either this or that, like in diablo 3. Maybe tie in stat boost nodes etc. Oh, and also make elemental attacks matter. Maybe throw in status effects somewhere? The weapon system in FF7R was really good at making none of the weapons obsolete. I really wished they would have been as creative here.

But seeing the love this game gets made me realize there are numerous reasons why we all like gaming. I do enjoy the stories they tell but appearantly it is not the main reason I enjoy these games. I want to level up, I want to find loot and I want exciting and interactive places to visit. There are numerous great locations in this game but they feel so empty and the world so small. I have trouble caring for the fate of the world when there are none in it. At times I get the silly idea that they chose to create a story where everything is abandoned so that they didn't have to put money and effort into filling it with life (because they probably needed money elsewhere, I'm not saying it is a cheap game).