Topic: The Movie Thread

@RogerRoger yeah i think overall they made them better and i even like Hayden showing up at the end of The Last Jedi although some kind of morphing sequence would have been nice like seeing the older Anakin change into the younger one

i also don't really care who shot first

although not EVERYTHING was good, the whole scene with Jabba in A New Hope was really badly done and the whole "Jedi Rocks" sequence can go fall in a Sarlacc Pit

also and i am SO going to get it for this BUT force shields up

THE PREQUELS ARE THE BEST MOVIES IN THE FRANCHISE!

oh i had best run after saying that

now being serious i know many fans will not share my opinions about Star Wars but that doesn't mean the fanbase should be so damn hostile about the franchise, we are fans and it's OK to have different opinions and to NOT like every single thing in the franchise so lets all get along OK

@RogerRoger

@RogerRoger there is probably a Star Wars gif for everything

case in point, Vader on a Merry go Round

Here is a question I have about the Prequels. In Episode III (spoilers), Obi Wan says he has the high ground and that implies that Anakin would be stupid to attack (which he does and thus choppy choppy, vader, noooooooo ensues).

BUT, in the Phantom Menace, Darth Maul has the high ground on Obi Wan but he leaps up, nabs his lightsaber and chops Mauly in half. It's one rule for the Sith and one rule for the Jedi.

@Rudy_Manchego i think the point is that the Sith become over confident in their abilities and leave themselves open when they believe they have the advantage in a fight, such as when Maul was showing off while Obi-Wan was hanging in the pit or when Anakin was "drunk" on his power so believed he was unbeatable and was then beaten because they let their guard down

@FullbringIchigo @RogerRoger You could both be right but still not convinced. That said, I still think Jar Jar is the real Sith Lord.

@Rudy_Manchego

also did you know in canon Binks became an outcast on Naboo due to his role in the rise of the Empire and By the time of the Battle of Jakku, Binks was a street performer in the capital city of Theed, where he was scorned by adults but beloved by the children who came to watch his antics.

kind of a sad end really, performing on the streets, outcast from your home and hated by most people

@FullbringIchigo Yeah but, I mean, it is Jar Jar...

@Rudy_Manchego he wasn't that bad of a character and to be honest the fans took it too far, Ahmed Best the person who played him got so depressed over that hatred he was getting he even considered suicide

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44708983

I mean, what's new?

@FullbringIchigo Jeez, I didn’t realise it got that bad! That kind of vitriol is mind numbingly disgusting and abhorrent. I’m not claiming to be a saint, but how can somebody be so vile? I mean, sure, hate the character, but not the actor, for goodness sake....it’s just a made up figment of someone’s imagination. Although, as nasty as that all is, I guess it could be argued that the actor playing the character has taken the unpleasant attitude of others to heart because they too haven’t separated their role from themselves. Every coin has 2 sides, I suppose 🤷🏻‍♂️

@Kidfried

Midichlorians.

@Kidfried @Th3solution That's because George Lucas is always lauded as a 'great storyteller' - but actually can't write for toffee.

@RogerRoger I find Lucas' need to racially stereotype a lot of TPM alien races a distinct annoyance - Jar Jar and the Gungans being the worst of the lot. I don't think he's racist - but there's clearly a lack of imagination there.

Firstly, I don't condone any of the over the top fan backlash mentality at all. I feel sorry for the Jar Jar actor having had his life ruined, same as Jake Lloyd as Anakin.

However, I do get why Jar Jar is singled out so much in a way. He is very emblematic of some of the issues with that film - racial stereotypes, the jarring juxtaposition between kid/toy friendly aspects and the more adult themes of bureacracy and destiny and the confusion over the lore (midichlorians etc.). I also think the technology and green screen reliance in those prequels really hurt the actors who weren't used to it.

I don't really hate on TPM that much. I was lucky enough to see an early copy of TPM weeks before it came out in the UK and it made me a local celebrity and I loved it at the time. I think it is superior to AOTC which is my least favourite of all the Star Wars movies (with the possible exception of TLJ).

@Th3solution you mean those things Lucas introduced on the original draft of a New Hope in the 70's?

there is nothing wrong with Midichlorians

Midichlorians allowed for a connection with the pervasive energy field known as the Force; in sufficient numbers, midi-chlorians could allow their symbiont organism to detect the Force, and this connection could be strengthened by quieting one's mind, allowing the midi-chlorians to "speak" to their symbiont and communicate the will of the Force

in other words, what they are a bridge that allows you to feel and with training interact with "The Force"

basically if we use technology as an analog, your a computer the force is the internet and the midichlorians is your wi-fi router

they do not "create" the force nor are they the source of it as many people WRONGLY believe because they didn't listen to what was said in Episode 1 and later Clone Wars episodes, all they are is something that explains why everybody isn't throwing around objects with their mind so people should stop getting so bent out of shape about them

@FullbringIchigo I think the issue with midichlorians is attempting an explanation for something that doesn't need it. It is not just specific to Star Wars but is a problem with many narrative stories - basically, the explanation isn't as good as someones imagination.

The original trilogy didn't try and explain it so everyone could draw their own conclusions - for example, it is psychic force, some sort of law of the universe, whatever. Then to be told what it is, everyone who had in their own head what they wanted it to be was disappointed. Also, the explanation sounds odd.

The same is true as explaining the powers of the One in the Matrix trilogy. Keanu Reeves is the prophecised hero in 1 then in 2 and 3 finds out he wasn't prophesised but just a programme. In Highlander, you have mystical warriors fighting across time. In Highlander 2 they are aliens from the planet who cares.

If you try and explain something mythic and undetermined, it will disappoint.

@Rudy_Manchego true but i don't think in this case it was that kind of explanation, i think Lucas just needed to explain why Anakin, the Jedi and Sith were so special and different to everyone else for the story

but the thing is, is the message here for films/TV not to explain things or for people to NOT draw baseless conclusions? after all just because something doesn't end up as you imagined it to be isn't the fault of the people making it but your fault for believing you was right (and by you i don't mean YOU i mean people in general)

@RogerRoger Whether Best chooses to admit it or not, the Gungans aren't far removed from the the world of blackface caricature and old cartoons. They are depicted through the two main Gungans we see on screen as stubborn, intellectually stunted, easily manipulated and generally inferior throughout. That's not even getting started on the actual performances. Transpose the audio from Boss Nass and Jar Jar to one of those old cartoons and you'd be hard pressed to defend it. EDIT: (not that I think you have to)
Don't even want to start with the Nimoidians and Watto...

@RogerRoger Just lazy I think. Reeks of someone (with no one on hand to say 'no') trying to to be profound; but not really knowing what that means.

@FullbringIchigo I see your point and the audience has to take some of the responsibility for misinterpretation and poorly placed expectations (The Last Jedi is also an example of this as it was so far removed from what fans expected and wanted that it came under fire) but I have to agree with @Rudy_Manchego ‘s salient point that clearly Lucas didn’t appreciate the value of mysticism and the allure of self interpretation of his universe. He was just hell-bent on telling the story he created. It’s his right to tell his own story, but if you’ve read the early drafts of the Star Wars saga before A New Hope was filmed, then you know that there were many things that he changed and left out from his initial ideas. It’s quite entertaining to go back and see how the early drafts were so different. So in my opinion it was poor judgment to include his original idea of the midichlorians and lose the viewer imaginative investment that many had held for so many years. Obviously it worked out for him because he could buy each and every one of us here many times over with the mountains of money he possesses now, but the fan disappointment with the explanation of Force users is well placed, imo. But to each his own. I just envision all these little sentient microbes crawling through a Jedi’s bloodstream and it just sounds strange, so I choose to ignore the concept.
@RogerRoger @KALofKRYPTON Although it doesn’t make it acceptable, but we do have to take the racial stereotyping and cultural misappropriation present in Phantom Menace in the context of the time period it was made. Again let me reiterate, I’m not saying it shouldn’t be criticized, but we can’t expect social progress to be at the level in 1999 that it is in 2018. And in 20 years from now, current media will likely have offensive content we may not realize now. I remember reading a lot about James Bond in this thread and it’s the same situation. Those older Bond films are so insensitive toward the treatment of women, as are old John Wayne movies, etc. It’s been a couple years but I remember the Humphrey Bogart character in Casablanca made me feel a little uncomfortable with how he treated Ingrid Bergman, but the movie was so boring to me that it’s hard to tell. 😉
Point is, it’s easier to judge some of this in retrospect, but probably a little bit unfair.