Topic: The Movie Thread

@Ralizah because it's basically a fairy tail story in space, in terms of how it did it was was revolutionary, the effects and cinematography at the time was ground breaking but as for what the story boils down to it's a generic hero saves the princess form the dark knights castle story nothing that hasn't been done a hundred times before

and if you watch it now it's full of wooden acting, poor writing and cliched characters

Luke is the hero raised on a farm who gets hold of a message from a captured princess
Obi-Wan is the old knight hiding after his protege turned on him
Han is the rouge in it for the money who has a change of heart at the end
Chewie is the rouges big strong friend
Vader is the Black Knight who turned on his master
Tarkin is the Count/Duke who holds the princess in his castle
the Death Star is the castle

the hero finds the message meant for the old knight and while he goes to find him his family is killed by the black knight and his men, with no where to go he journeys with the old knight to rescue the princess and train in the ways of the sword, on the way the meet a rouge who agrees to go with them for a reward and so along with his strong friend sneak into the castle and rescue the princess which they do but as they escape the dark knight runs into the old knight and they duel ending in the death of the old knight after wards the princess rally's her forces to launch an attack on the counts castle and a big battle ensues, the rouge after getting his money has left, during the raid the hero meets the black knight and just when it seems he is about to die the rouge comes in to save him after having a change of heart, the castle is destroyed, the count dead and the black knight escapes, the hero and rouge are then given honours by the princess and the story ends

sound familiar?

don't get me wrong i still love the films ALL of them but the original is the weakest of the entire franchise

yeah all 3 prequels and both sequels are better than a New Hope and the ONLY reason most people hold it so high is because it's SO ingrained in them by their parents or grandparents, the original trilogy is full off all the issues people bring up about the other films but for some reason most fans just ignore them

@FullbringIchigo I think they say that there are only seven basic types of stories in all of literature anyways.
According to Christopher Booker’s The Seven Basic Plots : overcoming the monster (as in Beowulf ), rags to riches (as in Cinderella), the quest (as in King Solomon’s Mines), voyage and return (as in The Time Machine), comedy (as in A Midsummer Night’s Dream), tragedy (as in Anna Karenina) and rebirth (as in Beauty and the Beast).
And I’ve seen the number be as many as 36, or as few as 3, depending on the analyst. But the point is, there is a limited number of plots and all movies, literature, and even video game narratives are variations of common themes. So to say the story lacks originality, is only partly true and could be said for nearly every epic storyline out there.
That being said, I agree about the poor quality of some of A New Hope’s acting, dialog, and visual effects.

@Th3solution yeah your right what is it they say about hollywood "every story that can be done has already been done"

maybe that's why current hollywood is on the "bending" craze, you know instead of making something new they just remake something old but change say a male character into a female one or change the time and have a story that was set in lets say the Victorian era set in the modern day

@FullbringIchigo Even given each plot line is recycled in some way, shape, or form - I enjoy an epic “good versus evil” and “common man rises up to defeat powerful villain” and “unlikely romance blossoms between snarky headstrong princess archetype and bumbling buffoon underachieving hero”, etc, etc. As long as holleywood can present the story in a unique setting and throw some twists in there with a modern fresh coat of paint, I’m good.

@FullbringIchigo Joseph Campbell helped with the script, so the parallels to mythology and fairy tales were conscious and deliberate. It's actually one of the reasons it's my favorite film in the series: it takes the foundations of ancient storytelling and puts it in a bombastic science-fiction context. Structurally, it's basically perfect for what it is.

But I respect the fact that this doesn't really resonate with you.

Saw Venom tonight and I really enjoyed it. I know they had to take some liberties and not mention Spider-Man at all. I thought they did a good job rewriting Venom's backstory to exclude Spider-Man.

Definitely one of the better films I seen in 2018.

@Ralizah like i said i still enjoy it but i still feel it's the weakest of the franchise and it has quite a few incontinuities with the other films that they are still fixing it in the expanded media today

and like i said they still did it in a new and exciting way but going back to it today it really shows it's age

@RogerRoger Thanks for your excellent objective review of a re-visiting to a classic. I tend to agree with most of your points. Especially the fact that A New Hope’s Special Edition upgrades do have a tendency to just highlight the rest of the poor native visual effects.
And you’re right in the sense that when A New Hope was made, there was no guarantee that it would be a success. In fact, it was quite a gamble, I’m sure. And the smaller budget, coupled with the technology constraints didn’t help in the presentation department. So considering it was an experiment in Sci-Fi storytelling, it stands as quite a feat historically. Nevertheless, the chinks in the armor become more apparent with each passing year, as you have adequately outlined already. But it is my understanding that Lucas had the whole saga written and of course had to choose a small part to make for the first movie. He had to make it self contained enough to stand on its own, as there was a possibility that he would not be able to tell the whole tale if the film flopped. In fact, he modified the original storyline and characters extensively leading up to the final screenplay.
Overall, I would compare A New Hope to a Monet — a beautiful piece of art when held at a distance and taken as a mood piece to inspire and enjoy, but it’s a mess if you inspect it too closely.

@RogerRoger Fair points, all, on Empire’s virtues and shortcomings. Most Star Wars enthusiasts list it as their favorite of the series. I used to like Return of the Jedi more as a kid, but recently I favor Empire more. I think it has to do with the Ewoks and the Battle of Endor. I am actually a big fan of the movie trope whereby against all odds the simplistic natives overpower the evil technologically advanced oppressors. It’s just that the Ewoks, although cute enough, don’t feel quite heroic enough. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Other than that, I adore the conclusion of Anakin’s Redemption arc. I really like the other memorable set pieces in Jedi like Jabba and the Sarlac pit, the New Death Star, and the revelation of the Emperor and his massive powers. Endor is a great setting too, it’s just the Ewoks have grated a little bit on me on subsequent viewings.
I’ll be curious to read your comments after rewatching Jedi.

@RogerRoger I don't really see Ewoks in themselves as the problem with Jedi. It's not like other SW films didn't have cute aliens running around at times. It's that the sequences on Endor completely throw off the pacing of the movie. They feel... fillerish. You mentioned Empire had a lot of sequences where people were just kind of... doing stuff... with no plot development, and that's very true, but that running around heightened the gradual sense of desperation building up throughout the film until the final, very bleak, act. Empire isn't my favorite film in the trilogy (that would be ANH), but it comes together as a cohesive experience by the end, and I think everything needed to happen the way it happened in that movie for it to achieve the effect it did. I can't say that for Jedi: it feels like three movies in one, if you count that, yes, extremely entertaining opening section where they rescue Han as one. So, it's a much more unfocused film than the first two. I think how much it resonates with you also depends on how invested you become in the Luke/Anakin soap opera, which I didn't. The way their storyline ends is great, but what I've always appreciated about the first two films is their ability to subjugate plot and character to the sweep of filmic grandeur (the simplistic but oh-so-satisfying original film, in particular). Jedi has some of this, of course, but it's much more invested in the development of its characters and its worldbuilding. This focus on character development and worldbuilding (and wooden acting, and terrible pacing, but I digress) is what killed the prequels for me, and I can see shadows of that approach in this film.

Anyway, great write-ups! I'm really enjoying reading your takes on these films, and your passion for this property is quite infection.

@RogerRoger @Ralizah I agree that the use of the cute and/or strange looking toy-like creatures are prevalent throughout the Star Wars series, and not just Ewoks. And really toy and knick-knack products have been sold in affiliation of many movie and TV series since. I would surmise that Star Wars pioneered the market of movie toys, action figures, and other products related to a film. It seems more transparent to me now that subsequent to the success of the toys from the first film, this evolved into a conscious decision to include such characters for their marketability since movie related toys and products overflow on store shelves nowadays. Characters like the jawas and the randoms in the cantina in A New Hope were obviously not placed with the thought that they’d make good toys since that wasn’t really a practice back in the 70’s, I would think. But the inclusion of the porgs in The Last Jedi just seems like a blatant attempt to plan for the inevitable plushies that would follow.
Selling related collector items and toy merchandise is a practice that is seen in everything from Stranger Things and The Walking Dead, to Harry Potter and Frozen, so it’s definitely not isolated to Star Wars.
But anyways, I ramble...
The Ewoks will forever be as polarizing amongst fans as Jar Jar is. I did like the presence of some comic relief in the midst of death, destruction, and torture scenes in the closing act. If only there would have been a more grounded realism to the guerilla tactics of the Ewok tribe. With all the comic and lightheartedness of the Endor sequence, it was a hard sell to have the battle trained imperials fall in such a way. I’m not sure why I have trouble suspending disbelief on that one minor issue, in a series filled with ridiculous feats and grandiose heroics. Nit-picking on the believability of Ewok nation is similar to the issue of the timing of Vader’s first “no”, I suppose. But in the end, I quite like Return of the Jedi and I see myself trying to watch these again sometime soon.
It’s been really fun to read both of your thoughts on it.

So as to not completely highjack this thread into a Star Wars only discussion, I will say I saw two movies recently:
Crazy Rich Asians and Incredibles 2.
CRA was actually better than I expected, but, in the end it was little more than the Cinderella story. Wouldn’t ever necessarily watch it again, but it wasn’t terrible.
Incredibles 2 was likewise predictable. It was a good bit of fun, but didn’t really offer anything that the first film didn’t, as far as character progression or fleshing our the world. It didn’t help that it was the third recent movie to play the “superheroes are bad and should be outlawed” card. That narrative piece is getting worn thin.

@Th3solution I also watched Insane Wealthy Orientals recently. It was... mediocre. Too much of the movie was just prosperity porn, showing off all the wasteful behaviors of this family. That might be captivating for the sort of people who watched Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, but I just kind of found it boorish. The main love interest, Nick, is a total non-entity: the sort of "perfect boyfriend" that mediocre chick flicks are replete with.

I did get a laugh out of that ending, though, when the main character is telling off the mother, talking about herself like she's some sort of ragamuffin bum when she's actually a privileged and well-off university professor. Imagine Pretty Woman if Julia Roberts was an upper-middle-class professional instead of a prostitute!

I saw Aquaman. It was awesome! The fight choreography and cinematography achieved the main goal of the movie very well - to make Aquaman cool. The plot was good, if a bit tried and true with the formula. It didn’t try to reinvent the wheel and didn’t need to. Overall I was very pleased and give it a strong 8/10.
I also feel like Dante and Aquaman would get along very well.

@RogerRoger So have you watched all the earlier Marvel movies, ie the three Iron Mans, the other two Thors, the three Captain Americas, Ant-Man, the first two Avengers ... etc, etc? Because if not, I’m sure that some of the humor and references fell a little flat due to lack of context. For example the intro of Peter Parker for the first time into the MCU was in CA: Civil War and explains a little about he and Tony Stark’s relationship. I seem to recall much of Ragnarok’s humor and plot being more meaningful given the goings on of the previous films.
I’m just curious. The entire MCU library is gargantuan at this point and very difficult for a newcomer to the series to get through all of it unless you have a spare 3-4 weeks with nothing to do. I think the filmmakers have tried to make each film somewhat accessible as a stand alone piece of enjoyment, but inevitably some plot lines build on one another by necessity. Although I’m sure your friend has gone above and beyond to try and explain and expose you to all the information that the crazy universe throws at you in the course of a gazillion movies.

@RogerRoger For all my fandom of the MCU (and I have seen them all and tend to see them all in the theater on release), I pretty much agree with you about Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity War. Your feelings are pretty spot on with mine. The only variance would be Star-Lord. Yes, he definitely comes across as a “stereotypical smart-mouthed-yet-stupid fratboy” whose primary role in the MCU seems to be for comic relief, but the two Guardians movies do a pretty good job of developing his background as a somewhat fragile and vulnerable individual. Much of his backstory is actually quit heart wrenching and emotional, especially in the context of the overall goofiness of the Guardians movies and the MCU in general. Also, he, like Stark (and Bruce Wayne for that matter) has a more “Everyman” type character that I find perhaps more relatable. He doesn’t have flashy inherent superpowers, can’t fly or shoot lasers from his eyes, bring down lightening from the sky, or have superhuman strength, but uses his wit and technology to his advantage. Same applies for Ant-Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye, ... among others. Also, Groot is almost reason enough to see the Guardians movies as well; Gotta love Groot. But if it’s just Chris Pratt that annoys you, or the slapstick nature of the MCU and recycled jokes, then you’ll proabably not find enough there to make it worth your time.

But further on Black Panther, I am totally with you on that one. For the highest grossing film of the franchise, it was rather pedestrian in my opinion. Just kind of “meh.” I was expecting to be blown away and it just didn’t do much and the storyline was clear from a mile away. Perhaps I need to watch it a second time. I actually enjoyed Ragnarok and Infinity War much more on a subsequent viewing.

It’s great fun reading your takes. Keep ‘em coming. Maybe rewatch the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter next and give us your impressions 😋

Not a film I'd usually go for, but I watched the Bros documentary, After The Screaming Stops, the other night, because a friend told me it was like Spinal Tap, only real. He was spot on (sample quote: "Rome wasn't built in a day. And that's true. But we don't have the time Rome had").

Although you're laughing at their David Brent-like buffoonery to begin with, you do end up rooting for the pair of them. They basically got too famous at an early age and it messed up their relationship with each other.

A strange recommendation maybe, but it's a very interesting watch. If you're in the UK, it's still on iplayer I think.

@Frigate Oh my god, I had NO idea that Denzel Washington was in his 60's! Talk about aging like fine wine. The man still looks incredibly good.

@RogerRoger Sounds great! I actually watched the original Indiana Jones movies (minus the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) not too long ago. And if you do end up giving GotG a try, be sure to let me know what you think. I honestly think you’d like the overall direction of the story, but I do feel like Chris Pratt will drive you crazy with his constant quips. So it has potential to crash and burn for you, but also has potential to be a pleasant surprise. If nothing else, the music is great.

And I totally agree with your social analytics and I hadn’t previously thought of Black Panther as a trailblazer for more African American hero films, but it makes sense that by playing it safe and more digestible to the populace it probably accomplishes more for diversity in the long run. It’s something that video games have done pretty well. Better than films I think in the way they just place minority representation as a natural part of the overall game.

@RogerRoger you mean Death on the Nile, it's out next year and yes i am a HUGE Poirot fan, they cast Gal Gadot as Linnet (also a huge Sherlock Holmes fan, speaking of Sherlock the 3rd film of that should also be out next year)