Topic: The Movie Thread

@Th3solution Truth be told I was big into the X-Men when I was a kid but that was about it. In any case I agree with you about the Marvel movies. I'd never even heard of GotG or Scarlett Witch or Vision etc. They've really done well presenting them and building on that.

@Th3solution

I think your correct on quite a few levels there, particularly in regards to the fact that Marvels/Disney are willing to explore obscure titles cinematically being critical to the MCU’s sustained success. As a lifelong comic book reader though, I would disagree with DC definitively having better characters. I have had various stages where I have preferred DC and then Marvel and back again... it really comes down the the creative teams at any one time really. For me DC (in the comics anyway) is stronger when the writing lends the characters metaphorically towards God-like beings of ancient myth. I think Marvel is stronger when the writing focuses on the flawed humanity of its heroes.

The MCU films have done a far better job of capturing the feel of the Marvel comics on a consistent basis. The DC films (post The Dark Knight Rises) have absolutely no consistency at all and rarely feel anything like the source material whether the movie is good (The Joker) or terrible (Justice League). My personal opinion is that while Kevin Feige at Marvel is a fan of comics first and a movie producer second, DC (WB) is a board of suits who make far too many reactive decisions in regards to public reactions rather than have faith in their appointed creatives. While Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman were nowhere near the level of what I would like to see from DC movies, at least the overall vision was somewhat consistent. Then the studio-heads lost their will after BvsS didn’t crack a billion and tried to out-Marvel Marvel with Justice League and it fell flat on its face.

I’m looking forward to The Batman reboot due to Matt Reeves directing more than anything else, the guy just makes great movies... but apart from that I hold out little hope for DC movies with what is currently in production. Meanwhile, Marvel will be pumping out more content than ever in 2021 with 4 or 5 Disney+ shows, 3 movies and an extra movie for Sony. All of these will contain mini-arcs that will culminate in crossover crescendos during 2022 and beyond. The multi-verse trilogy/quadrilogy of Wanda Vision, maybe Loki, Spider-Man 3 and Doctor Strange:The Multiverse of Madness in particular could be awesome if they can maintain the quality from Phases 1, 2 and 3.

@ralphdibny Agree with you 100% there. Wonder Woman was average at best and that was near the top of the recent DC stuff. I'm in no real rush to see the sequel and will give it a watch when it is with the disk rental service I use.

Good to hear that Soul turned out alright @Ralizah!

There was that fantasy film... Onward I think it's called? That released earlier in the year which didn't quite appeal to me for some reason that was Pixar too apparently.

I agree most of Pixar's output lately has been a little safe with the unesscesary sequels dominating most of the past ten years of output ... But Coco and Inside Out were definitely a step above the rest for me at least!

As for Mulan... Not surprised in the slightest to hear it turned out to be a bit of a trainwreck!

As for the comic book movie talk... I have to confess I haven't even seen the first Wonder Woman film because personally I didn't think Gal Gadot was any good as WW in Batman V Superman and had no faith in it 😅

Didn't help that BvS was a terrible film all over (Batfleck is easily the worst Batman I've seen alongside the Clooney Bat) but I never felt the desire to watch it with the poor reception of the other recent DC films

@RogerRoger It's a pity (re: Mulan). The original is one of my favorite Disney films from the late 90s, and Mulan was an actually relatable person in that film. Her journey from 'dorky normal girl who can't fit in with the expectations of society' to 'brave soldier who overcomes her physical and psychological limitations to save the empire' is what animates that film. It's the hero's journey, and, sort of like with Star Wars, Disney has forgotten about the strength of that concept. Nu Mulan is very much like Rey where she's this amazing badass from the word go, and her character doesn't undergo any real growth over time. Old Mulan wasn't a supersoldier, but she was willing to go to dramatic lengths to save her father; Nu Mulan was just looking for an excuse to show off her qi, or something, and that provided a good excuse for her to join the service. It's really devastating: the narrative goes from one of love, sacrifice, and bravery to something totally self-centered.

Imagine if Star Wars were made today (the first one; episode four or whatever), and the film was all about how Luke Skywalker was actually already an accomplished force user, and society was just keeping him down and not allowing him to fully develop his potential as a warrior. The death of his guardians gives him an excuse to go out into the wider world, but the film is less about stopping evil and more about him developing his abilities. It wouldn't change the content of the film all that much, but it would entirely destroy the 'soul' of the story, wouldn't it?

I've been watching The Mandalorian, and it's funny how that kind of seems like it's going to be about this unstoppable bounty hunter badass, but it's actually about the growing affection between Mando and the child. His moral duty to see the child to safety slowly becomes a deep, loving, fatherly connection that softens his harder edges, and, in the second season, you seem him increasingly struggle with the idea of leaving the child at all, even if he knows it's the right thing to do. It's a satisfying emotional arc; the sort of thing completely absent from the recent films.

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Coco wasn't bad, but it felt like a more generic retread of a cultural space already explored a few years before in the underrated 2014 film The Book of Life. And it just lacked a... spark for me.

The central gimmick of Inside Out ruined that film for me, to the point where I couldn't become invested in Joy's emotional journey. Turning simplified aspects of a person's complex cognition into characters in their own right just makes for boring, predictable storytelling, IMO, and it distanced me from the young girl and her development.

Comparatively, I just watched A Christmas Story for the first time, and that film grounds you in the psychology of a child without making him out to be an almost alien creature.

@Ralizah The Book of Life is fantastic and is a shame it will forever be overlooked for the lesser but more popular Coco.

Well that's certainly an intetesting perspective @Ralizah & @JohnnyShoulder regarding Coco & The Book of Life... As I did dismiss Coco when it first came out for thinking it seemed quite familar in premise to the latter (Despite not having seen it either) from the trailers.

I'm actually just about to watch the Book Of life funnily enough so I'll wonder what I'll end up thinking of it and how it'll compare

Re: Inside Out. Fair enough I can understand your view on it @Ralizah.

I'm really quite fond of Sadness myself and think Phyllis Smith does a fantastic performance (Though Amy Poehler does good as Joy too) and I have to admit I'm an absolute sap for the emotional heartstrings the film tugs at with Bing-Bong 😂

-EDIT-

I've just watched The Book Of Life

Sorry guys but this was absolutely atrocious

The story was rather uninteresting despite the initial premise being intriguing, the dialogue was tripe and the "humour" made me physically cringe, Manolo was such a boring protagonist with barely any personality (His voice actor was bland as wallpaper too), Ice Cube was horribly miscast as the Candlemaker (Seriously wtf?!) ... The "songs" included weren't great either.

Ugh. What a waste of time.

@Ralizah I accidentally missed your previous post on Soul and Mulan and appreciate your take. Soul is my next stop on my sojourn through ‘big budget movies that were supposed to go to theater but went straight to streaming.’ I’m looking forward to it now.
And yes, although I probably liked it a little more than you, I have to agree on most points on Mulan. I kept waiting for a catchy musical number or an humorous Eddie Murphy-style sequence, and they never came.

And in reading your critique I think you’re onto something in general — that being the acceleration of protagonists into their final ‘badass’ form without showing the struggle, bravery, and sometimes failure of an imperfect hero. There’s a bit of that in Wonder Woman also and it shows in this new movie. Not being a woman I don’t know how to feel about it, but the trend seems more common with female leads. Is it possible that in the attempt to make strong female hero leads (certainly a worthy venture) that we are too quick to show them as flawless, overpowered, and void of the struggles of their male counterparts? It’s a trend I’ve noticed in movies, like you say - Rey, Mulan easily skipping the ‘just a common / misunderstood person who has to learn their powers’ and you can throw Diana in there now. I’m not sure if it’s an overcompensation by Hollywood being reluctant to show a female lead fail or come off as weak, or if it’s just simply pandering to a fan base who demands to see bombastic badassery and doesn’t have the patience anymore to watch a hero (or villain) develop.

On the topic of Disney remakes, I watched the Aladdin remake a few weeks ago and just thought it was trash. Even small bits that were ok/good were just drowned out by lazy directing and poor production value. I know Guy Ritchie must do these rubbish films for the pay cheque/to get his non franchise films financed but he really has more terrible films than amazing films now.

Everything about alladin seemed not quite right, from the lack of variety in locations and static sets to all the musical numbers just looking rubbish. I think it really hit home how bad it looked when the Jason Segel Muppets film had way better and professional looking musical numbers. I even caught a bit of the Kurt russel Christmas film on Netflix and saw a musical number in that film look way more impressive.

It's a real shame because I bet it cost Disney a ton to make Aladdin but it looks so cheap and is so obviously filmed on a set. I don't think it's the set designers/builders fault, I just think there's camera tricks that can be used to make things look less artificial which weren't implemented.

Maybe I'm harsher on it because Aladdin is one of my favourite Disney cartoons

@Th3solution I mean, power fantasies can work out fine, but they have to be structured to account for that. The power fantasy of something like Kill Bill vol. 1 (probably tied with Die Hard as my favorite action film) is fine because the film is about style and execution, not storytelling. You don't watch that film because it's an interesting story, or because the character are relatable, or whatever; you watch it because it's really fun watching Uma Thurman stylishly murder the people who ruined her life. They can also develop their heroes in other ways: Mando is already a badass at the start of The Mandalorian, but it's engaging to watch the show because he goes on an emotional journey.

Mulan is just a failure in every way. It's not a particularly good action movie. It subverts the messaging and characterization of the original, so that a story about bravery, compassion, and self-discovery because completely self-aggrandizing (the original film is a multi-textured work that touches on a number of themes; nu Mulan is like an Ayn Rand novel where the whole point of it is that society needs to get the hell out of the way of powerful women like Mulan and that weird witch they randomly added, and it smashes that idea in so hard with its narrative hammer that it destroys every other aspect of the film in the process). It's somehow more unrealistic than the original film was, and somehow feels even less authentically chinese than the original, with Disney's screenwriters giving these chinese characters lines so stereotypical that they border on racism and appropriating chinese religious concepts for their bad action movie script. What's the point of it?

Coincidentally, I also watched WW84 last night, and the best sequence in that film was one that took place roughly halfway through when Diana was chasing Lord's convoy and it was clear she was losing her powers. It was exciting, because she wasn't invincible, so what happened on screen actually mattered. It made the action direction better, and made me feel more connected to what was happening on screen. Whereas, you know, I kind of zoned out once she started flying around like superman and swinging on lightning bolts, and the film goes on autopilot near the end when she faces its villains. Then it became more like one of Disney's trashy Marvel films, where boring power-escalation CGI fests are papered over with "funny" dialogue to distract from the emptiness of it all.

Of course, the original Wonder Woman was also a mostly mediocre film that was elevated by Gal Godot's presence. Great choice for an actress; subpar screenwriting.

I will say, I LOVE the Lynda Carter cameo during the mid-credits scene, though.

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Cool. I'd be interested to hear your perspective on that film (Book of Life). It's definitely not perfect, but the unique visual design really won me over. So many CGI cartoon films look identical anymore, so I'm a sucker for anything different.

edit: lmao, just read your update. I do agree, at least, that the film doesn't have strong songs.

That's probably one aspect of Soul that got me as well. The depiction of heavenly/cosmic entities is... interesting. Very eye-catching.

As soon as I heard about Bing Bong being some sort of imaginary friend from early childhood, I knew the film was about to engage in some sort of emotional terrorism. It was a popular film that resonated with a lot of people, so I was a bit disappointed that it didn't really work for me.

@JohnnyShoulder Coco benefits from both the big names behind it and the tremendously larger budget it probably had. The only reason Book of Life didn't get totally Kimba'd is likely because the films released within a few years of one-another.

@ralphdibny I kinda liked Aladdin, but I understand. I'm that way with the Beauty and the Beast remake. I detest that film so much and have ranted about it online endlessly, and while I might be harsher on it than a dispassionate viewer would be, I just can't believe they did that to one of my favorite animated films.

My absolute favorite, though, is The Little Mermaid. I'm steeling myself for the anger and disappointment I'm going to inevitably feel when watching that remake!

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I also didn't like The Book of Life and while I see Coco as at least more authentic, I still really dislike it.

@zupertramp So you didn't enjoy Coco OR Book of Life?

@Ralizah I hear you. Not every movie has to have character development and an emotional journey of self discovery or personal growth and development.

It’s funny that you felt WW84 got too excessive with the visual hoopla, because as I agree with you that the midway section you referenced does make Diana’s journey a more interesting one (despite the overly convenient logic of why it’s occurring and how it is reversed) I felt that even after she’s flying around doing grandiose things, that in the end she didn’t defeat Lord with a flying kick to the head or smashing a bullet and volleying it right back at him. She had to make him confess and see the error of his ways and get the world to revoke their wishes. Sure, it came across slightly cheesy and a little nonsensical, but I can respect the director for trying a different approach, even if it didn’t quite work.

But the whole section at the beginning where she’s this little girl who is clearly the best Amazon warrior at what... age 11, that’s where it delves into the ‘this hero dropped from the sky in badass form, ready to go’. By the way, what was the point of that whole opening sequence anyways? Learning the value of honesty?

And I definitely need to go back and watch the ending credits. Not sure why I didn’t think to do that.

I was kinda thinking that Coco felt more authentic to me too after I was done watching The Book Of Life. Which is kinda odd as far as I'm aware Book Of Life is a mexican production @zupertramp unlike Coco and Pixar.

Ahh I was just going to repost it seperately but you've now seen it @Ralizah 😅

The artsyle was really the only thing the film had going for me tbh Ral. I do agree with you there that most cgi cartoons/film go for a very safe artstyle so I did appreciate that about The Book Of Life at the very least.

Also Ron Perlman as Xibalba was pretty good too cus it's Ron fudging Perlman

@Ralizah I know, what a grouch right? The Book of Life was trying way too hard to be, like, hip or something. That's it's biggest problem in my opinion. Plus, a bullfighter? Really?

And Coco, well, in reality I didn't dislike it that much the first time I saw it. It has its moments to be sure but I also live in an area where it's extremely popular and, well, I just don't think it's that good. Also the more you watch it the more you realize it doesn't make much sense. And believe me, I've seen it plenty.

Haven't seen Onward (actually didn't even know it was Pixar) and Soul really flew under the radar for me. It was just all the sudden out. I'd like to watch it but, like you, I haven't enjoyed a Pixar film in a good while. Toy Story 3 was probably the last good one.

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy yeah if I'd had to guess beforehand I would have thought the Disney movie was going to be the least authentic of the two but somehow it's way better at capturing the culture without being too much of an over the top stereotype. In my humble opinion.

@RogerRoger @Th3solution @Ralizah Interesting stuff from all of you. Definitely some things I hadn't realized or noticed. At least not consciously. Seems like Captain Marvel falls into this category as well. Her only "flaw" was society (or Jude Law) was holding her back.

Anyway, thanks I guess. Have to keep an eye out for what seems like an obvious trend now that it's been brought up.

The movies I watched over the long Christmas weekend.

A Christmas Story (TNT) - Annual re-watch as part of the family Christmas festivities. Just a nice bit of nostalgia. Interestingly, I recently learned that they accidentally gave Peter Billingsly (the actor who played Ralphie) actual chewing tobacco during the scene where he was fantasizing about using the air rifle to save his family from burglars. It made him really sick, which caused the director to chew out the prop guy. They redid the scene with crushed up raisins and let Billingsly keep the gun.

Elf (DVD) - Another annual re-watch. It's always good fun, and believe it or not features one of my favorite romances in movies. I remember when it was brand new & a modern Christmas classic, but it's culturally starting to show it's age with the CRT TVs & VCR reference (it makes me feel old, lol).

Halloween (Blu-Ray) - Yes, you read that right. I actually bought this to watch around the titular holiday, but never got around to it until now (better late than never). It's actually a pretty slow film & not nearly as bloody as I expected, but the soundtrack was great at keeping me at the edge of my seat the entire time, and it was cool how the camera work made it feel like you were the one stalking the film's characters (and sometimes you were in that perspective!).

National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation (DVD) - Another traditional viewing. Great mix of comedy & heartwarming moments, with many classic scenes.

The Polar Express (DVD) - Another traditional watch. I always really like this one for the sense of adventure & somewhat more actiony feel, which is different for a Christmas movie. The CGI is definitely starting to show it's age, though.

The Warrior Queen (Prime Video) - Got one of those pillow/tablet stand hybrids for the big day, so decided to curl up & watch something on the small screen, which ended up being this schlocky 80's sword & sandal film. The wife of the Roman emperor shows up to Pompeii and is apparently upset with how the city's female slaves are being treated and decides to help them out, or something (it really doesn't seem to have much plot going on, as it's really just an excuse for some exploitative nudity, softcore sex/rape scenes, and poor action sequences). It does end up with some sort of Gladiatorial games that involve fatal renditions of arm wrestling, frisbee (no, seriously), and a pretty inventive sequence involving the combatants swinging on ropes over a death pit and trying to knock each other into it (though it doesn't have near the budget to really do the concept justice). Naturally it ends with much stock footage of erupting volcanoes, and people running around collapsing sets with shaky cam (and where all the bad guys get theirs). Not quite as terrible as the Deathstalker films.

Disney & Pixar's Soul (Disney Plus): 10/10 - I loved the movie was well worth the wait! As much as I want a sequel, I realize this was a one off.

DC's Wonder Woman 1984 (HBO Max): 7/10 - I was entertained enough to be happy about a 3rd movie being made, but definitely recognize there were plot holes and flaws.

We Can Be Heroes (NetFlix): 8/10 - I enjoyed it despite all of the cheesiness and cringe, but it helps that I'm a fan of Rodriguez's Sky Kids series plus the Sharkboy and Lavagirl film.

Watched Queen and Slim the other night. It was just bad. Not sure why it has received so much praise. It was just so poorly executed.

I went into it knowing nothing more than it had the Get Out/Fifteen Million Merits guy and after the film's initial set up I was like okay, this is shaping up to be a really good movie. Down to earth characters. Gritty, grounded, compelling premise... I was on board.

Then it abruptly turned into a cartoon. I like legitimately don't see who finds this type of drivel powerful or moving. Ugh. I read all the glowing reviews on rotten tomatoes and it's like I watched a completely different movie.