Topic: The Movie Thread

@Ralizah bladerunner still made a worldwide profit of about 80 million +, not entirely a flop.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi For a movie that cost roughly 150 m to make. The best film of the year was a massive flop. Even that Ghostbusters remake performed better.

@Ralizah Bladerunner 2049 cost between $150-$185m to make and therefore cost around $6-41m more to make but did take $30m more at the Box Office. If you take the 'lowest' figure of $150m, it made more money at the Box Office and was critically acclaimed - even winning 2 Oscars and a BAFTA. It was therefore a critical and commercial success - hardly a 'flop'. Maybe not as commercially successful as some films but the Original Bladerunner wasn't that 'successful' at the Box Office either - $28m budget with a $33.8m Box Office.

@BAMozzy You're right, I had totally wrong figures on the foreign gross!

Good to know. This was never going to be a box office smash, but it's nice to know that it didn't lose money.

@Ralizah What this does show is how much more films are costing to make - not just than other films but compared to games too. H:ZD for example cost around $45m and 'few' games cost more than $100m. Publishers, like EA, Ubisoft, Activision for example are becoming like Universal, Warner Bros, Paramount, 20th Century Fox etc. However Movies are still generally given a much bigger budget. The average budget for a Movie is around $140m (inc the lower budget films which brings the average down) where as AAA games its around $40m (not inc the low budget/indie games). Its interesting, only from the perspective of investment. However, with films, they do have secondary (and more) sales markets - like the Bluray market, broadcasters etc too. So whilst they may not be 'majorly' profitable at the Box Office, sales of blurays, income from broadcasters etc can add to their profit margin. Games have to rely pretty much entirely on the gamers so to expect $100m+ budgets is perhaps unrealistic. That being said, most recently Games have had the biggest opening weekends of any media - GTAv took $800m on its first day (within the first 24hrs) yet the highest opening weekend (Fate of the Furious) took $542m. Black Ops 2, Destiny etc had opening Sales of $500m. Its difficult to get a list of best opening sales for games as they don't all provide that information - some talk about units sold (MH:W sold 5m in 3days for example) but opening weekend Box Office takings are a metric that is documented.

Anyway that's a little off topic but its still interesting to see how the two compare.

300 (Netflix) - First time I've seen this. It was a bit more odd than I thought it'd be (a lot of the enemy warriors looked more beast than human, as an example), but still an entertaining watch.

So I watched the extended cuts of Batman Vs. Superman and Suicide Sqaud. They were both petty good movies. As a disclaimer, I didn’t see the regular versions of either movies.
Batman Vs. Superman: It was a little long, but it was a good movie. I feel like I could watch it again to better get some of the intricacies. It did a good job of depicting the conflict between them. I really liked the character of Lex Luthor’s son. If you view him as someone else than his daddy, then he’s a well done and acted character. The fights were good. Some of the parts I heard made fun of made sense to me or felt like if you missed a single line it wouldn’t make sense. The part of bat exaltation. If you hear the line at the end it makes sense as something artisctic to figure out. It had a lot of dreams to develop character after all.

Suicide Sqaud: I liked this one even more. I really liked the cast and their characters. They didn’t seem to comprosimise on their characters and kept them as much as villains as they should be. It was really funny and I liked Jared Leto Joker. I feel like I could watch it more to better appreciate his performensce though. And let’s not compare it Heath Ledger, Apples to oranges. And it’s not many, if any, movies are better than it so let’s not use it as the benchmark, because anything would come up short compared to it. Also, all the masks and costumes joker’s thugs had were hilarious.
I’m a fan of the DC movies so far. They offer a different feel to Marvel superhero movies, and to that, I’m grateful. Heck, I think I like the tone from DC more.
Also saw Wonder Woman, pretty good movie too.

@Jaz007 @RogerRoger My only issue with BVS is that Lex's plan doesn't seem to make any sense to me. There was no real explanation why he wanted them to fight and also why his back up plan was that monster thing.

In terms of style and cast, I quite liked i.t

@RogerRoger Maybe I got it wrong but I thought the bell was only rung after he started messing around in the spaceship and wasn't his plan originally? Because in the extended version, you see him talking to Steppenwolf. I get the idea that he wanted to kill Superman but his plan was, if I understand it correctly, frame Superman for something for no payoff as nothing happens there, manipulate Bruce Wayne into getting angry with Superman (fair enough, that makes sense), give Bruce Wayne the tools to kill Superman, fail to convince Superman to kill Batman till he kidnaps his mom. Then if all that fails create a giant unstoppable alien monster which only superman could kill. That last one seems like an own goal - if it had killed Superman, how would he have stopped it from destroying the world?

@RogerRoger Hmmm you may be right and that does all make sense. My complaint would be that in the original cut, none of that is made clear at all. The whole plan is very convaluted and doesn't make sense. That said, I liked Batfleck! Haven't seen Justice League yet. I liked Wonder Woman a lot.

@Rudy_Manchego @RogerRoger @Jaz007 I’ll be curious to read your impressions of Justice League. In some ways, it is not as strong as BvS, but there are some very good highs. I only saw it in the theater a while ago, so I need to see it again to remember properly. I won’t give any more due to spoilers, but suffice it to say that it does have a slightly different tone than BvS, but not as far into Marvel territory as you might think. It’s no Guardians or Thor Ragnarok with the constant gags all the time.

Saw Annihilation - very interesting adaptation of a book I loved. If you like quirky sci-fi movies give it a try.

@Feena I watched Annihilation last night. Had been looking forward to it after reading the book trilogy. I really liked the adaptation, gutted I couldn't see it in the cinema here but really great and thoughtful sci-fi/horror.

Some reviews in for Ready Player One. Not exactly setting the world on fire.

I enjoyed the book for what it was. Its certainly not the best thing you'll ever read, but those of a certain age and persuasion should take some enjoyment from it. The characters are paper thin most of the time, but it all rolls along at a glorious pace.

I had some concerns with the movie casting - Atr3mis and Aech mainly (those who've read the book and seen the trailers surely do too), and of course, the impossibility of licensing everything in the book.

Some reviews do seem to support that it's a Spielberg spectacle but slightly hollow. Most seem to miss a very core concept of the book. Looking forward to seeing it.

@Th3solution @RogerRoger @Rudy_Manchego As for Justice League... (Spoilers ahead if you've not seen it)I like the Ultimate Cut of BvS. But then, I thought MoS was a strong film and appreciate Snyder's style. As with almost all of their DC output though - Warner just can't help ruining these films.

Firstly - Justice League is entertaining for what it is. Some of what's in there is gold. Unfortunately, WB insisting on a 2 hour runtime, Snyder's unfortunate exit and throwing Whedon at the project utterly decimates Snyder's vision of the film. The re-shot Superman/Clark scenes, about 90% of his screen time are famously marred by the shocking CG mustachios removal.

The runtime is short for a film with so much to do. You may have noticed that 90% of even the last trailer for the film, isn't in the film. As with BvS, the cut is brutal. There are several completed scenes that were cut on youtube, and many more in animatic/storyboard form depicting what Snyder wanted to do. The remnants of the Steppenwolf/Superman/Darkseid arc are few, leading to a rushed return of Superman and complete jettison of the BvS nightmare plot.

As for characters. Batfleck, while excellent in BvS, and I really do like Affleck as Batman - is pretty poorly handled. The opening scene is the best we have of him. The rest of the film is Affleck phoning it in wearing a needlessly redesigned costume (not the 'tactical' upgrades, the cowl has been messed about with and looks horrible compared to the BvS one).

Wonder Woman is probably the best served character on show. Coming in off of the great solo movie, that's understandable. No one around to screw that up. What we get of Superman, despite some shocking effects work is brilliant- denied a proper MoS sequel, this is where Snyder was going to show Superman as Superman. Not brooding, not confused or conflicted - but accepting of his importance and role. While some important framing scenes for that were binned or cut (the full fight with the league, time on the farm, returning to the Kryptonian ship, Steppenwolf's attempts to turn him for Darkseid and meeting Alfred), the Superman on show is very well done. Again though, in a weird redesign of the suit that looks saturated and oddly highlighted (as it turns out, the new costume has silver coloured muscle plates under the mesh fabric intended to make the suit look more metallic and shine. In practice with the post effects etc, it looks like an amateur dry brushed job).
Aquaman, again losing several establishing scenes is serviceable, but mostly just there. Momoa can't be accused being a great actor - but his physicality and charm are put to good use mostly.
Cyborg, also losing many scenes is actually a great character and played well by Fisher. I would have liked to have seen more of him. His story arc serves well as the darker tone of the film and some of the effects work on him is stellar - sadly, just as much of it is not. There are a couple of real Games Master moments that are as distracting as Superman's no-stache.

Sadly, oh so very sadly is The Flash. Utterly miscast and poorly characterised for me. Flash is the 'comic-relief' in a film with too many other instances of trying to make everyone the comic relief. He has no fleshed out back story and missing what would've been a great scene of him saving Iris West (part of is was in all of the trailers, breaking a pane of glass at super speed with his finger). Perhaps Miller's casting and characterisation would have worked better as Wally West.
The suit is horrid, the effects work is... OK, but the running movement they have Miller doing looks ridiculous. I suspect he would've been better served if not for the better-by-far suit and effects work on the TV show.

Obviously, the tone of the film was changed to suit Whedon's style (thankfully, there aren't too many obvious lingering butt shots of Gal Gadot, but she was heavily pregnant by the time the re-shoots happened, so Whedon didn't get chance). Quippy, irreverent dialogue and little attention to character. The tonal look of the film also changed unfortunately. Again, in the trailers, the nuclear plant location for the final showdown was depicted with a grey atmosphere - likening to the darker scenes in BvS. Late on this has been changed to a red hue, which not only looks terrible - but feels like the decision of a media student.

Unfortunately the 'tonal change' also includes leaving Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL's scores and musical cues from MoS and BvS largely unused. Whedon/Warner roped in Danny Elfman late in the day to re-score the whole film, and while on a couple of occasions the flourish of Elfman's original Batman theme and John Williams' Superman theme is fanboy (me) pleasing - the score itself is a flat, mundane, by-the-numbers affair. You won't remember it.

Whedon is a poor fit for Snyder's style - his scenes and dialogue are markedly obvious. Most of it is fine, but there's an element of 'make it like Avengers' going on; too many attempts at quips and comedy for the runtime. Between them, Whedon and WB have spoiled Snyder's vision in a crude attempt to keep chasing the Avengers cash. JL is entertaining to a point, but could have been so very much more.

There has been talk of a proper MoS sequel - that would be great. I like Cavill, and his proper Superman would be great to watch. Whether that happens is another matter entirely.

Justice League performed weakly - so what was meant to be a two-part epic with the greatest superhero characters anyone could wish for probably wont get a follow up. The money already spent on the Aquaman and Flash solo outings may keep them afloat, but who knows. The Batman movie is in a quagmire, with no working script, no Batman and no faith.
Shazam is filming, set videos don't look great, but we'll see. Whedon is off Batgirl (thank the mighty beard of Zeus), but again - no idea where it's meant to fit or if there will continue to be a shared DC movie universe.
Wonder Woman is WB's only safe bet at the moment - thankfully, Patty Jenkins is in charge again for the sequel and Cheeta has been cast.

@KALofKRYPTON That’s an excellent commentary on the DC films. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

@Th3solution Thanks dude. It's a shame really. DC has always been my favourite. Loved Marvel for a long time, but they lost me in the 90s (Peter Parker: Spider-Man, Clone Saga...), there is so very much good to be had from the properties. It's amazing to think that WB are so very short sighted with the films but let the TV guys have so much fun throwing everything they can at their shows; I mean, King Shark! King Shark in a TV show. The CG was so expensive he first showed up for a few seconds at the end of a filler episode but used up the budget.

But, I digress. DC films have had a pretty tumultuous time of it since Burton's '89 Batman. Thankfully a lot of projects never got off the ground, but some could've been great; Darren Arronofsky's Batman:Year One is still a film I'd love to see; the mooted Batman Beyond would've been great too.

Since the MCU became a thing, Warner has gone in to some sort of jealous, paranoid shame spiral.

Unfortunately, with (the utterly mediocre, poorly messaged) Black Panther breaking sales records and Infinity War probably set to do the same; I can't see Warner making any particularly sane decisions regarding DC films any time soon.

@KALofKRYPTON Yes, I can definitely feel the DC movies trying to mimic the success of the MCU. I do really like the MCU, but the last few films are starting to create some fatigue also. I haven’t seen Black Panther yet and I hear conflicting reviews. Maybe I’ll try to see it this week.
I actually think as the MCU complacency sets in, it is a perfect opportunity for Warner to capitalize on that by creating DC movies that are uniquely fresh. They accomplished that with WW and I think they can continue to bring something new to the table with Shazam and Aquaman (although I agree that I’m feeling more luke-warm on Momoa after seeing JL. I was expecting more from him) But JL seemed like a bit rushed and then the somewhat strained attempts at making it more lighthearted didn’t help it’s cause any.

@Th3solution I enjoy most of the MCU too, one thing it has over WB/DC is the stability of direction. I still can't help but think of Iron Man as a happy accident, or at best - a very lucky happen stance. Favereau isn't particularly great at anything, but he managed to hit gold; more likely down to Downey Jr. But, ever since, a plan was put in place and intentions made clear. I think Warner was put back by indulging themselves the Nolan Batman films. They were (mostly) good, well received and brought cash roaring in - all the while Warner basically refusing to forge ahead with any DC property they viewed as conflicting. Then once Nolan was done and the consensus settled that TDKR was pretty crap, only then they were wanting to get seriously started in making their own superhero money machine.
They set Snyder off with his vision and then crumbled under criticism and the unsatisfactory box office results for MoS; but it was a complete, whole film that worked. They had only to look to Watchmen, which they surely did to get an idea of the sort of world Snyder was going to create.
Avengers happened while MoS was in production - and made all of the money. That started WBs rush to JL. Shame really. A bit of time and consideration and we could've had something consistent.

As for Black Panther. Your mileage may vary, I'll try not to be too spoilery. I found it bang average - obviously coming off of the bandwagon of the hype machine and the severely American response to some Black People leading a film - it feels a bit of shame to be largely underwhelmed.
There's not much wrong with it, it is too long - and the plot meanders a little bit. Given the social and political climate I also found some of the messaging to be rather irresponsibly handled; though that bears more significance of wider perceptions of the film and what certain audiences might take away from it.
Casting wise, Martin Freeman was, is and always will be a mistake (in everything), the rest are fine enough - Michael B. Jordan is easily the best thing in it and clearly enjoying hamming it up.
The CG is rather ropey in places, a lot of the panther suit stuff looks very CG.
The ending is nowhere near damning enough of the villain, his motives or his plan - and the first post credits scene really should be in the film proper.

On the whole, Black Panther means very different things in different parts of the world. That is its main success. Whether merited or not, it's making a ton of cash - and most reviewers are singing its praises as a film and as a piece of movie history. At some point, I hope, someone with significant media presence will be allowed to point out how incredibly overrated it is - as both a film, and a piece of history.

I saw Black Panther and thought it was a pretty good movie. It had good characters and a well-developed plot. It also didn’t rush itself too much. Some Marvel movies of late (like Civil War, Doctor Strange, and Ragnorok) have so much going on in them they don’t leave time for more reflective moments or quiet moments, the pacing feels a little rushed. Some of these are still good movies for sure, but I fear Infinity War will suffer from this extra. They need to make less happen or make longer movies.

Generally, I prefer the 'tone' of DC's movies. The dark tone really started with the Tim Burton 'Batman' film. I think the issues though are more to do with editing and casting. BvS was good but considering the source material, the editing and the casting of Lex, it was let down. I know Marvel hasn't always got the casting right - Quicksilver, Some of the choices in the 3rd X-Men movie... That being said, the editing is 'better'. There are things in BvS that wouldn't be missed and some of the stuff that was cut was more 'important'.

With Wonder Woman, there wasn't a 'poor' casting choice and the editing didn't feel like important parts were cut. Maybe there are bits on the cutting room floor that may of improved some aspects but it didn't seem to leave 'gaps' that BvS left.

Marvel hasn't got 'everything' right - Deadpool in Wolverine is a classic example. At the worst though, most DC/Marvel films have been watchable, moderately 'fun' and entertaining - at least on face value but not all have been great. Personally I am not a fan of the Winter Soldier despite it being one of the 'best' according to a lot. Maybe its because I have never been a fan of Captain America. Civil War doesn't feel like a Captain America film - more an Avengers film.

I am looking forward to the next DC and next Marvel films - although as I rely on Sky to get to watch these, I am somewhat behind. I have just watched Wonder Woman and haven't yet seen Spider-Man, Thor Ragnorok, Justice League or Black Panther - I think that's all I haven't yet seen...