Topic: The Movie Thread

@Th3solution too right. I'm glad I read it beforehand. Wouldn't have on the strength of the film.

I've seen bits of Eragon. Wasn't great, but it at least has the caveats of being based on the first novel by a teenaged author and a directorial debut to boot.
Pretty fair adaptation I reckon.

Seriously though, I am genuinely struggling to think of an adaptation gone so fundamentally wrong. The Hobbit films are pretty bad; there are several Steven King based duffers (The Tommy knockers being possibly the worst) but really, I can't think of much that does everything so badly.

@RogerRoger That's inspiring me to start an 'Unpopular Comics Opinion' thread, lol: The Killing Joke isn't very good.

The Killing Joke is a bad film, but it is most definitely a worse comic. I find Moore relatively hit & miss; his original work is usually solid, existing character properties rarely fare particularly well.

Firstly, the story is boring. The characterisations are rote at best and brings absolutely nothing to the table but starting off DC's exacerbatingly poor treatment of the Batgirl character.

The implied rape is at best crass, and at worst an ugly (and unlikely) slashfic fantasy.

Moore characterises and writes The Joker poorly. His dialogue is intended to be sharp, intelligent and witty - but it never moves beyond Moore's egotistical notions of what any of that is.

The film suffers from all of these things of course. It's certainly a case where diverging from the source would've helped the story leaps and bounds; instead they compounded the whole thing in to an even more severe mess with... Well, actually in keeping with the source material - more creepy slashfic.

I'm certain that given the time and a free hand, Bruce Timm could salvage the story and make something of it. I'd say they're best leaving it alone and producing one of the better recent Batgirl stories.

@Kidfried It's easily the most overrated comic ever written. Bolland's art is great. A Death In The Family is better, Year One is Better, Hush is way better, Knightfall is better.
The majority of The Shadow of the Bat run is better.

The Joker 'origin' is the best take away. And TDKR arguably did more to shape modern Batman. As I say, adolescent slashfic and boring attempts at 'insanity'. I liked it when I was kid, but that's probably more down to the art being better than TDKR (I was 8). Compare the lacklustre prattle of Moore's Joker with that of say, V - two very different characters yes, but V has his own voice, purpose and sense of character. Moore's Joker is a thoroughly two dimensional depiction of someone's idea of insanity.

When was the last time you read it? The movie didn't bomb just because of the Batman relationship nonsense. You watch and realise how utterly wasted the cast is reading the lines. They've all had better dialogue in any given episode of TAS. And as what's likely Hamill's last turn as the Clown Prince, that's really sad.

Like Watchmen, it is revered by many who maybe read it once, or have a poster or are aware of it via pop-culture osmosis. Watchmen is good, and like TKJ at least brought attention to the format - but it is far from a masterpiece.

Moore peaked with The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, the sequel is decent too.

@RogerRoger Yeah, I read that the main characters are CGI but the extras are hand drawn. Also, there was one (Joker) part where it was fully hand drawn?

@Kidfried I like The Killing Joke - there is a context to when it was written and the impact it had.

Overall, I think a lot of the Joker/Batman dynamic that we think of today and that, for example, The Dark Knight film focused on was the symbiotic relationship between Batman and The Joker. Between The Killing Joke and Miller's Dark Knight Returns, this relationship developed which really made the Joker/Batman dynamic more than just an average villain.

@Kidfried Miller isn't a great writer either really, though his work always suffers for his artwork. TDKR works because is really was seminal, but if you've read any of the follow up stuff - it's all pretty poor.

Morrison and Loeb tend to handle Batman (and anyone, really) well, Snyder does write him really well too.

TKJ, WM and TDKR are all important for the format, they were certainly significant moments in time. Of the 3, Watchmen is the only one that really comes close to living up to it's hype and reputation.

As a kid back in the early 90s, I had little idea that TKJ was considered such a seminal work - notorious yes, but having spent so long reading other, better Batman stories - it never ceases to amaze me how many people fawn over it.

@RogerRoger Miller is a bit of a train wreck. I remember desperately hunting down the RoboCop comics he wrote based on what was meant to be his original RoboCop 2 script. Good job they didn't try to film it really, terrible.
He gets worse with age. The sequels to TDKR are utter pap! It is truly a seminal work, but he does himself no favours. Ronin is pretty good, but again - marred by his presentation.

I don't just lament Barbara - but the Batgirl mantle too. pre Crisis (On Infinite Earths) she was pretty great. Post Crisis DCc essentially abandoned her and let Moore use her as a plot device. The post credit is a nice addition - as I don't think BG (ha! I'd never noticed that!) was actually shown to be Oracle for while after TKJ; perhaps a diversity afterthought - but more Barb is always good - and I do agree that the opportunity to use her as Oracle was well taken.
But then Cassie Cain and Stephanie Brown(?) Batgirls happen. CC was great early on, then binned off. I'm not sure I actually read anything of Stephanie Brown, but again - she didn't last long either.

Do read Hush. from a structure point of view, it's actually very basic. But it's so well written, and beautifully drawn - well up there with All Star Superman.

Speaking of Batman: Hush, and I might be bias but Jim Lee draws the best looking Batman, imo.

@WanderingBullet I kind of agree... I really like Simon Bisley's stuff - but Lee is certainly on point - with the entire League actually.

I think I've mentioned this before, but Batman: The Long Halloween will always be my favorite Batman GN. Fantastic, complex mystery story with noir-ish overtones. Great version of the Two-Face origin story, too. And very atmospheric art.

I can't stand Frank Miller's art or stories, so I'll leave those be.

The Killing Joke... I think it's too dependent on an almost adolescent fascination with cruelty and evil. Watchmen and V for Vendetta are much more interesting narratives from Alan Moore.

@RogerRoger I've never read a Superman comic, either. No interest.

And the first Christopher Reeve movie sucks. Never watched the others.

Man of Steel wasn't awful, but it also wasn't very good.

@RogerRoger i remember The New Adventures of Superman, i used to watch that every week

and like you i'm more Movie than comic but mainly because if you look at all the recons and reboots in the comics it becomes a huge mess to try and figure out where to start

at least with the movies you get a pretty much consistent series, well apart from those Batman movies, i still shudder when i think of Batman and Robin

@RogerRoger Nah, that's a good pitch. I watched the first Superman expecting a decent movie, which is why I was so disappointed. Going in expecting entertaining trash from the start will absolutely alter my expectations. I'll keep you posted.

@Ralizah I actually have no words....
Perhaps start with Superman 3, it's at least good trash - and Reeve is in the best shape of his life in that film.

@RogerRoger love me a bit of Lois & Clark, damned shame it was canned when it was, but they were all happy to stop working on it. The working schedules for some great shows of the 90s were brutal. But the inventions of Tempus and Lord Nor were masterful!

As for the comics. If I could get you to read one Superman story, it really would be All Star Superman. There is no finer straight up story about a big hitter super hero out there. None.
The animated adaptation is really well done too, so you could just plumb for that.

@FullbringIchigo Please don't remind me of those terrible movies, I've tried to wipe those from my memory!

@JohnnyShoulder here go get yourself something to help you forget

Why's that?

Looks at username and avatar

Oh.

Alrighty. Is Superman 2 in that same sort of "so bad it's good" range?

@Ralizah i know this is going to get up someones goat BUT Superman Returns was actually a pretty fun movie you should watch that one after Superman 2 because even though it has different actors it's actually a sequel to it (it completely ignores Superman 3 and 4 which is a good thing as they were really bad)

Hmm.

Maybe I'll just sit down and watch all the other Superman movies and share my impressions in this thread.

I agree. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I first saw that. While you are there watch Jaws 3-D for a giggle/grimace.

Has anyone seen The Prophecy? That is one the greatest terrible movies of all time. It's full of the best moments in cinema. The bear and sleeping bag moment in particular is amazing.