Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

I'm the opposite lol I think GOW 2018 is one of the most overrated games in modern times, it is like the most bang average 6.5 out of 10 experience I can think of. Then Ragnarok came along and delivered for me the game everyone was telling me 2018 was meant to be over the years, I think Ragnarok is a masterpiece.

@LtSarge I mean… to be pedantic, to avoid your horse tripping then you have to choose your pathing carefully. It’s more entertaining than AC Odyssey letting you jump off mountains without taking any damage!

@LtSarge If anything, you're selling me on RDR2. The attention to detail sounds truly incredible.

@Ralizah RDR2 is the most detailed world I’ve played. It looks fantastic on PS4 and runs solidly for such an enormous detailed world.

There’s rudimentary sim aspects, but also plenty of ‘gamey-ness’ to be had. For example, depending how much and how often you eat, you get thinner or more hefty, which in turn has some (albeit small) effects on gameplay - a thinner Arthur is quicker but has less health, whereas a beefier Arthur can withstand more damage but is less agile. Arthur’s hair and beard constantly grow and you can choose to ignore your grooming and hygiene and end up looking like a homeless man, or you can regularly visit the barber and have neatly manicured hair and face - each option can have (again, small) effects on how you’re perceived in the world by NPCs.

I’ve mentioned before how impressed I was when I accidentally ran over a random sheep in a town and killed it and left the carcass behind and each time I visited that town the carcass was amazingly still there but showed gradual decomposition every few in-game days until finally several weeks later it was just a skeleton of the animal, still lying there in the side of the road. It’s crazy how they would put that kind of thing in there which has no real gameplay effect but helps with making the game feel more authentic.

There ‘gamey-ness’ of it relates to things like the shooting, which many people feel is a little too easy and automatic with its auto-aiming (although it’s been a while and I think you can change how much aim assist you want in the settings) and silly fictional moments that are sprinkled in there.

If you want a simulation open world sandbox with a surprisingly solid story and character study, then it’s a high recommend for sure. The main issue is that you have to be able to tolerate the turn of the century Western / Cowboy backdrop. I’m not a fan of Westerns, but still absolutely loved the game. It has a lot of parts where you might get frustrated (like described above by Sarge) and the opening hours are extremely slow paced and a huge put-off for many players, but once you get into a groove it’s fantastic. The game narrative is great and on par with Sony’s first party storytelling and it can be played in that simple linear way in about 50 hrs, however the game is at its best when you play with no real timeline and spend plenty of time wandering about this detailed world and discovering countless little moments on the side. I think I spent about 80 hours or so and still left many things undiscovered or undone (such as the whole hunting and fishing side activities, searching for fossils, and other various superficial side quests).

And previously playing RDR1 (for which RDR2 is a prequel) is partially beneficial, but not essential. There is some context from RDR1 to one of the characters, but they are mostly tangential in this game. If you end up liking RDR2 then RDR1 could conceivably be played second as a sequel chronologically.

Realism in games and difficulty spikes (and honestly many of the game design elements we discuss) ultimately relate to this concept of ‘fun’ that was mentioned. Scholars on the subject have tried to objectify ‘fun’ and I’ve read different theories on it. One I liked was that there are 8 basic kinds of ‘fun’:
sensory pleasure, fantasy, narrative, challenge, fellowship, discovery, expression, submission

However, placing the sole motivation for playing on ‘having fun’ ultimately leads to an incomplete analysis. As one author says (Dustin DiTommaso) “Fun is too diluted of a concept. It doesn’t distinguish the unique psychological experience of gameplay that leads to sustained engagement.” I think Neil Druckmann referenced some of this logic when he was talking about TLoU2 and the fact that many parts of it would not be ‘fun’ by most standards, but would nevertheless be fulfilling or engaging otherwise.

Anyway, not to nerd-out of academic fluff, but I think it’s an interesting discussion.

@Th3solution That is actually incredibly cool (the sheep carcass thing). I hear your horse's testicles also shrink in the cold?

The amount of detail injected into this game is so far off the charts and it becomes fascinating. Like, in general, I'm inclined to also prefer convenience over realism, but I'm willing to tolerate a lot if the game seems to invest itself fully in being immersive.

I actually really like the inclusion of sim elements in games like these. GTA: San Andreas made it where your character could get fat if he ate too many fast food meals, and you'd have to go to the gym to work it off, lol. They stripped out fun stuff like that in GTA V.

I played RDR1 when it first came out. I don't remember too much about the story, but it was fun enough. Cowboy GTA. The sequel sounds like a gigantic leap in terms of how interactive and immersive it is.

@Ralizah sounds like you need some Kingdom Come: Deliverance. RPG/Medieval life sim 😁

I can't believe the initial comments of @LtSarge about RDR2 that started the discussion, either haha. "During one hour did all of this crap happen to me, simply because Rockstar thought it was a good idea to make a game as realistic as possible"

It did make me laugh at the "why me" element of it. As it was basically "I killed a bunch of people and there were consequences. And my horse also fell over as I steered it into a pothole" So, that's "why you" to be fair to Rockstar 😛

It was an entertaining read, though 😁 and it made me think of all the reasons I loved RDR2.

I do think there is a line. Like I see no appeal in survival games at all, needing to manage your temperature and thirst and hunger etc, no clue what the appeal is to those games, I have to do that in real life already. I don't wanna worry about that in a game.

@Ralizah Definitely give it a shot. It's a slow burn but like others have mentioned, it's about getting immersed into its world and basically living in it. Despite all the issues I have with it, I can't stop playing it.

I like being able to watch hunger and thirst, makes a survival game more intense. It’s easy in real life to get food or water ( Yes I’m aware not everyone but that’s a discussion for another day) versus being stranded in a world like Pathologic.

@Pizzamorg you really think Ragnarok is a masterpiece?!! 😁
funny how people have completely opposite opinions about a certain subject. fine by me.
you're right, I can't see the appeal in managing hunger, thirst, oxygen etc neither.

@Ralizah I feel like we’ve talked for enough years on here that I can tell you’ll have gripes with RDR II and its complete disrespect for the player’s time but it’s absolutely worth playing. It’s not often you get to really immerse yourself in a world like that.

@Ralizah I didn’t ever notice the horse testicle shrinkage, but I wouldn’t be surprised. 😂

But yeah, you hit the nail there - you have to sacrifice some convenience for the realism and immersion elements, but in this case it’s really worth it.

@nessisonett @LtSarge I guess I'll need to make some room in my gaming schedule for this at some point. It'd be a shame to completely miss out on such an immersive experience, even if it's aggravating in certain respects.

I'm just so hesitant to pile on yet another 100+ hour epic into my backlog. That said, I don't hesitate with new Atlus games.

@Ravix Another one I've looked at, but I'm not a gigantic fan of the setting or art-style, so I haven't really been pushed over the edge into buying it.

@Ralizah art style? 👀 Not...sure... if... joking 😆

@Ravix If it’s any consolation, you’ll be pleased to know I bit the bullet on KCD and purchased the blasted thing today. The sale ends day after tomorrow and I had a hard time saying no to $3, which seemed a pittance for something that I think I’ll actually enjoy. By my calculations that’s a value ratio of about 3 cents an hour (if it goes 80-100 hr), which is basically like saying it’s free in today’s economy.

Unfortunately, what is not free is my time. That will be the limiting factor as to whether I ever get to take control of Henry’s plight.

@Th3solution welcome my son, welcome to the machine.

I almost feel obligated to onboard you to some things, but I'll resist for the most part, as you play souls games so know the pains of limited saves and endless punishment 👺 but I will say, if at first it doesn't click, push theough, possibly by stepping back and thinking 'less ever other game' and 'more reality' and you will end up maxing out your save file and wonder what people were ever worried about in the first place as you plough through the Kingdom of Bohemia on many a jolly jaunt 😁

I literally ran out of save slots by the end of the game and it allows well over a hundred slots, I'd say 😅

@Ravix Is it a ‘save anywhere’ system? Or has specific save points?

@Th3solution it is saved on: sleeps in an owned bed or via a special brew you drink only, or one exit save. It is limited, but it makes it exciting and eventually you sleep and drink enough to get plenty of saves anyway, if you like back ups and solid points of reference.

Don't go wandering off into the wilds and lose a day of progress because you forgot to sleep 😉

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth sucks.