@Th3solution A great read! I dunno if it was just because I played all of the Life is Strange games back to back and I was so damn invested in Rachel and Chloe by the end of Before the Storm that I just had no room left in my heart, but I just bounced off of Life is Strange 2 really hard. Think I made it to episode 3, and I just decided I had enough and wasn't enjoying it at all. Even though in some regards it shows genuine evolution for the Life is Strange franchise, so much of it felt like major regression in what I would say are really key areas for these games. Like the performances, the writing and the world building. I just thought the whole thing felt lost and aimless and it was so odd how little momentum it felt it had, given the catalyst for the story.
But I did also agree that it was crazy how much more tangible your choices felt. There is so much smoke and mirrors in the first Life is Strange, and True Colors really minimised the nature of choice, giving the player mostly small choices to make, with bigger parts of the story being unchanging or only affected in binary A or B choices with fixed outcomes only affected by that one decision.
Here, even in those three episodes, I got immediate feedback from each choice in how I was shaping the story. Like it was night and day beyond anything else in the series. And really, like you say, has to be up there in this style of game in that regard just like in general. I don't think I've played many of these style of games where I felt like I was so genuinely shaping my story like I was here.
Like I say, it is just a shame the story I was shaping was one I just wasn't ever all that interested in.
@Pizzamorg Yeah that’s interesting. I think the story of LiS2 definitely is more relatable if you either A) have a younger sibling, B) had a parent abandon you or die, C) are part of a social minority or victim of unfair prejudice, D) a registered U.S. voter, or E) like road trips. 😅
I related more to Sean than to Max or Chloe, although I definitely enjoyed their respective games too. But I see what you’re saying about LiS2 feeing lost, aimless, and lacking momentum. Especially at episode 3 where things get odd. By virtue of the fleeing the cops roadtrip, there is constant intro of new characters that are only there temporarily. So if you don’t click with Daniel or Sean, then you’re hosed
The end is really interesting, so if you ever go back, it will pay off when you make it there.
How did you like Detroit Become Human? I can’t remember if you got along with that one.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Pizzamorg Yeah that’s interesting. I think the story of LiS2 definitely is more relatable if you either A) have a younger sibling, B) had a parent abandon you or die, C) are part of a social minority or victim of unfair prejudice, D) a registered U.S. voter, or E) like road trips. 😅
I related more to Sean than to Max or Chloe, although I definitely enjoyed their respective games too. But I see what you’re saying about LiS2 feeing lost, aimless, and lacking momentum. Especially at episode 3 where things get odd. By virtue of the fleeing the cops roadtrip, there is constant intro of new characters that are only there temporarily. So if you don’t click with Daniel or Sean, then you’re hosed
The end is really interesting, so if you ever go back, it will pay off when you make it there.
How did you like Detroit Become Human? I can’t remember if you got along with that one.
I actually have the younger sibling and the dead parent, so I am full shounen protagonist 😂 But yeah, I dunno, I have only really related properly to the True Colors cast and really grew to love Chloe and Rachel through Before the Storm. I basically just need it to be written by Deck Nine it seems.
I think you are right about LIS2, while the other games have a pretty big cast as well, there is a real core sense to them and they are built over the course of the game. Whereas at least by episode 3, 2 is a revolving door of extra characters you either like and are disappointed when they exit stage left almost immediately or just feel nothing for because they are around for a short time. The brothers really are there to be the players anchor point, but if you don't care for them like I didn't, then you have nothing to keep you from drifting away from this entirely.
I loved Detroit Become Human! I played that through a few times now. Have it loaded up on my deck to do another playthrough at one point. I liked Quantic Dream's Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain too. These style of games are my jam.
@Th3solution I look forward to actually reading you review of the game at some point. Not knocking the review as I do appreciate the extreme caution to avoid spoiling anything unlike some people do, although we do seem to have gotten away from that here thankfully.
Anyways. barring a sudden change of my mind, I have decided I will finally play Life is Strange 2 after I am done with Final Fantasy XVI. I have no idea when that will be, and I'm ok with that as I am still highly enjoying Final Fantasy XVI, but I think Life is Strange 2 will be the perfect game to play after playing a pretty lengthy game like that. It's "free" anyways since it's on Extra.
PSN ID/Xbox Live Gamertag: KilloWertz
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@KilloWertz Oh yeah, that should work well for you to take a break and do LiS2 after FF16. I gravitated to it because I squeezed too many big games in quick succession and needed a break.
@Pizzamorg Yes, the Quantic Dream games are probably the pinnacle of the genre. Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit are great, but DBH is where it has peaked so far. I’ve yet to play Beyond Two Souls, but I really should. I get the impression that it’s less about choice-and-consequence storytelling though.
If you really enjoy these, I assume you’ve already done some of the Supermassive collection then? Until Dawn is quite good. I have The Quarry queued up as maybe my next of the genre to try. Extra has the first two entries of the Dark Pictures Anthology as well.
Of course there’s always old Telltale games to go to, which are a mixed bag. The Wolf Among Us, Batman 1&2, TWD (although I never played the final season), and Tales from the Borderlands are the best, imo. But the Telltalw formula is harder to go back to because there’s much less consequence to one’s choices.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I've played almost everything at this point I think @Th3solution but weirdly just not finished a lot of it. Played through the first two Dark Pictures games, never got around to finishing the third and not picked up the newest one yet. Played through Until Dawn a few times, but not in years, although it is on my PS5 so maybe I need to give it another run. Played through The Quarry on launch, thought it was good but didn't love it quite like others did. I did start a second playthrough but didn't finish it and haven't been back.
In terms of Telltale I've also finished the first season of The Walking Dead multiple times, I played some of the sequel seasons, but I don't think I played all of them or the spin offs. I've also finished Wolf Among Us multiple times too. I've played a bunch of others like Borderlands, Batman and Guardians of the Galaxy but not actually finished any of them.
@Th3solution Great to read your thoughts on LiS2! Nothing you said I can particularly disagree with, but I'm glad you were also able to still enjoy the game much in spite of its more questionable choices. Personally, I was more invested in this world and these characters than I've probably still ever been in a game, so I never felt bothered by any of the points you raised in the slightest. But of course, in hindsight I can acknowledge many of them are also absolutely not wrong, haha. Good to hear you at least felt mostly satisfied by your ending. I got the Parting Ways ending and remember being absolutely devastated by it, even though I do consider it the "best" one myself having read and seen the others afterwards.
And since you all were discussing these choice & consequence genre in general, I would love to recommend keeping an eye on Stray Gods. It's coming out in a few weeks and I could not be more excited. Might not be your thing if you are not into musicals, but I think it looks very promising. I know new Telltale is also releasing a video game based on The Expanse very soon. I have mixed feelings on that one but I hope it turns out well as I enjoyed the show for the first three seasons. Wish they would hurry up and get to releasing The Wolf Among Us 2 already though!
@Tjuz Thanks, and I realize now that in that post I over-emphasized the things that I found fault with and didn’t give the game props when it did things right. Because yes, the brothers characterization and story was very engaging and I grew very invested in their struggles and plight. I was really touched by several of the story points and events.
After I finished the game I went back and re-read your review of the game and was also very touched by your words and how you shared with us how the game moved you. It was a really great impression piece and exemplifies why I love gaming and this community so much. Like all art, games really have the power to enrich the human experience.
And thanks for the heads-up about Stray Gods. I wasn’t familiar with the game but I’ll definitely keep an eye out now. I’m also cautiously hopeful of The Expanse. I only watched part of the first season of the show, and didn’t read the books, so I’m not sure if the game will hit for me. I liked what I watched though, and I’ve always meant to go back and pick the show back up.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
Far Cry 3. Surprisingly good to be honest, I bet I would have loved it back on the PC when it released, similar to the Tomb Raider reboot. I can tell how incredibly influential it’s been too. It’s a shame that it goes off the rails at the end and also squanders Vaas completely.
Beat Blood Dragon too. Real good when it leans into the 80s action movie parody, less so when it goes for the GTA humour. Feels a lot like DOOM 2016 in some areas which is impressive for a PS3 game, the minigun feels incredible.
@Th3solution Haha, there definitely was an emphasis on some of the game's faults, but don't worry! Your enjoyment of the game still shone through in the end. I wasn't fooled. And good thing, or else I would've had to start an argument right there and then... (just kidding)
Honored that you even thought about going back to my impressions when I finished! I'm happy to say I'm in a better place now than I was back then, but those feelings still ring true often when I think back to the game. Effective storytelling in any medium, but especially games, can just be so beautifully intense. Probably why I will always gravitate towards games with a focus on the story!
@RogerRoger I think I mentioned that I went back and re-read your wonderful review of LiS2 also, and so I had a pretty good inkling of which ending you got based on your comments there. And I’m as surprised as you are because you’re correct — I usually take the paragon/high moral approach the majority of the time in my games. I have to actively go against my instincts to do otherwise, as was the case when I did my renegade run in Mass Effect last year. I struggle to find any interest in games like GTA or Saints Row where the whole point of the game is to be a self-absorbed criminal, breaking the law and creating chaos. I do, however love games where I start as a criminal and then reform and have a redemption arc, like Red Dead Redemption or to a degree in The Last of Us or BioShock Infinite, etc. (on the subject but as a random aside, you reckon I would like the Mafia games?)
I guess the crux is that I have a hard time causing pain, suffering, or injustice in these fictional worlds just for the sake of being a ‘bad guy’, a ‘criminal mastermind’, or a ‘cool destructive villain’, or whatever the motive may be for people to take that route. But I suppose I have felt comfortable when I’m wreaking havoc for a noble or virtuous cause. To be clear, in real life I’m not a “the ends justify the means” advocate, by any stretch. But in games I’m much more liberal with obtaining justice for the sake of fairness to my characters. I suspect it’s because my subconscious knows this is make-believe and so is a good testing ground to be a dissident. I’m not exactly sure what that says about my character, but hopefully it’s not condemning.
So in the case of LiS2, I knew with certainty that Sean was innocent and wrongly accused. The greater moral ground (in my mind) was to obtain justice for him personally and maintain family ties. Unfortunately, the destruction that I was allowing Daniel to do through his powers got quite out of hand and many innocents were killed or harmed in the process. But I was pretty tactical in that I only harmed people who attacked me or got in the way of my escape. For example, as I escaped the prison, I did not take out any revenge on the couple who shot Daniel. I chose not to free them, but I left them unharmed.
From a morality standpoint the only unjustifiable mistake I think I made was I didn’t stop Daniel from messing around with the scorpion in the desert, and I didn’t realize I was being morally judged for that. If I was camping and a scorpion was crawling around our campsite I certainly would have no problem getting rid of it! Of course I wouldn’t torture it, but I didn’t get the sense from the game that Daniel was hurting it but I guess that’s what was supposed to be portrayed, because it appeared to give me a mark against my morality, based on the end choice summary. One other place where my morality meter suffered was by not chastising Daniel for his cursing, despite that my own character (Sean) was role-modeling the usage of such colorful language. It just felt hypocritical of me to try to fight that battle with Daniel, and so the game counted it against my morality. As far as stealing, I think I only stole a couple times, once in the opening episode when I pried open the donation box (which I figured my personal charitable cause was greater than any meager benefit a few dollars would have on helping the park) and a second time when I felt the game forced me to take the yo-yo for a gift for Daniel; I wasn’t sure how else to progress the story. Otherwise, I didn’t steal.
But the lesson I appreciated about the end game messaging from my result was just how gradually we can fall into the trap of justifying our inappropriate actions. It seemed like I had excuses for behaving badly and all the while I was being led down the primrose path of becoming a bully and a gangster.
Regarding the trucker, yes I had no second thoughts about trusting the trucker. I think my reasoning there had as much to do with what I perceived to be a greater mortal threat from heat stroke and death by dehydration. I figured I’m almost about to die in the desert anyway so what have I got to lose? Also, there’s a certain subconscious comfort in knowing that there’s still 4-6 hours more of game left so no matter what happens here Sean isn’t likely to be killed or have his story end, no matter what I chose to do. Furthermore, I think this is one of those examples where subconsciously as a U.S. citizen I didn’t feel as nervous about it as I think the developers intended.
Speaking of, I do think my enjoyment of the game benefitted from being further removed from the timeframe surrounding the 2016 election that the game was obviously trying to leverage. The nauseating narrative around the sociology-political firestorm of that time period had me concerned if I would tolerate a game that could have ended up feeling like playing through a series of episodes of the U.S. evening news. Obviously the issues of racism and extremism still persevere even in 2023, but at least the craziness of that time doesn’t feel as acute as it once did. It’s kind of like watching a show or playing a game about a deadly global viral pandemic might feel quaint and interesting now, but 3 years ago would have given us all eye-twitches and nightmares because it’s just too close to real life at the time.
Sorry for the rambles, but I’m glad to have finally had a chance to compare notes. Are you up for LiS True Colors at some point?
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@nessisonett Oh nice that you beat Far Cry 3. Are you planing to play more games in the franchise soon? Even in the Ubisoft incarnation I often think of Far Cry as one of the best looking games around. I think its really cool how Ubisoft manage to create such cool environments in every part of the series.
@oliverp I think I’ll probably go through the rest of the series but I’m wary of burning myself out, the games are notorious for reusing animations and are fundamentally incredibly similar. I’ll have to rotate them with polar opposite games.
@oliverp From the opening two hours of Far Cry 4, almost every animation is the same but a bit shinier due to the generational leap. Almost impressive in that respect how similar the two games feel to play despite the jump in visuals 😂
@oliverp@nessisonett I do enjoy the Far Cry games, but do space them out every couple of years or so. But I am like that with most game in a series, and very rarely (if ever) play games back to back.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Just finished my first playthrough on Chronos before the Ashes and while a very basic little souls-like it’s not without its charm. Some nice call-backs (or call-forwards) to Remnant from the Ashes were appreciated… and some creative little sections brought some genuine originality to the genre. A nice chilled Saturdays gaming.
Judgment. Took a good few times to get into it, totally bounced off it at first. It gets real good towards the end though, possibly RGG’s best story and absolutely the most cohesive.
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