Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@LtSarge @Ralizah but why have levels at all then in an openworld Pokémon? I see what you’re saying and it’s arguably a problem but it’s also maybe a lazy solution too

@kyleforrester87 You learn new moves. Pokemon evolve. It provides a sense of progression.

In a well-balanced linear RPG, you don't need to level grind anyway, so it amounts to the same thing.

I guess the flipside is that it does feel great being able to tackle higher level challenges early on. I'm fighting for my life in some of these endgame challenges in Scarlet, and that's largely because I'm a tad underleveled. For the second time in a year, a Pokemon game is kicking my teeth in. And I didn't need to handicap myself: I just didn't go out of the way to grind or anything.

Maybe the solution is to have partial level scaling. No scaling for wild Pokemon, but bosses have to be at least as high level as your weakest Pokemon if that's higher than the bosses' default level?

Something to avoid situations where you can just roll up to an early gym you missed and steamroll Pokemon 20 levels below you.

This has always been an issue with RPGs with any level of openness, IMO. It makes returning to early game areas a real drag.

But as I said, it's less of an issue than I expected. GF did a great job balancing XP gain and how tough enemies are allowed to be near the end.

@Ralizah Xenoblade Chronicles - it can be a bit strange going back to areas with level 3 enemies when you’re pushing 90, but also in those games they throw enemies of various levels into different parts of the same areas so when you go back there are pockets of challenges in the earlier areas. Then of course you get a few super bosses scattered throughout that you could bump into early game but have no chance of beating until you’re at a high level. That’s not perfect, but ultimately more interesting to me than just everything being a similar level to me at all times.

(I do understand what you mean though, if level scaling just makes easier enemies harder what is the problem with a level 3 enemy getting stronger to maintain the challenge. But I like to feel like I am getting stronger and eventually overpowered, going back and fighting starter monsters on the same footing after 50 hours would just feel silly to me. Back to XBC, systems like bonus XP and the ability to level down once you’ve completed the game all give helpful options for people to overcome this problem/“problem”)

@Ralizah without re-reading what I was saying last night, I hope it made sense - I had 4 hours sleep the night before followed by an 80 mile bike ride and then 10 more hours of being awake and working my way through a litre of Baileys with my girlfriend 🤷‍♂️ was pretty proud of myself still being conscious by 11pm to be fair. I even watched Eraserhead in the afternoon!

@kyleforrester87 No worries. I thought your posts were perfectly coherent and well thought out.

Try the same thing, but end the evening with Lynch's marathon 3 hour swan song "Inland Empire" instead. It's feels like a never-ending fever dream.

@Ralizah thanks man 😂 all a blur!!

The lack of level scaling isn't an issue I think. Plenty of games don't have it. The problem is the world lay out. I've looked up the "intended" route, based on gym/titan levels, and you have to run from left to right constantly if you want to beat the game that way. In some areas there are level 20 Pokemon, you cross a bridge over a little stream and suddenly they're level 50. It does mean that wherever you are, there are strong Pokemon for you to find, but it also guarantees you will be overleveled for parts of the game.

Just finished the story! Very strong climax for a Pokemon game. Also really satisfied with the level of challenge in the final hours of the game (even with Pokemon in the 60s/70s, I barely managed to squeak through several battles), the interesting final dungeon, and the surprisingly emotional plot twist near the end.

Not sure how it'll fare in terms of total content and playtime overall (especially when considering the potential for a huge expansion of content via upcoming DLC), but purely in terms of the main story path, it's become one of my favorite mainline Pokemon games. Between this and Legends: Arceus, my faith in the brand has been mostly renewed.

But yeah, performance and image quality-wise, uh... this probably needed to stay in the oven longer. It's playable, for sure, but it's a shame to see what would otherwise be a positive reception to this game being marred by complaints about technical issues. Hopefully this enjoys a decent amount of post-launch support in that regard, if only to smooth out the framerate a bit.

Also, more than any previous game, THIS NEEDS VOICE ACTING. So many parts of this game would've been so much better if there had been voice work. It's time, Game Freak.

Still, overall, I'm pretty happy with it. I'll definitely keep playing after the credits over the coming weeks, and this is coming from someone who dropped Shield, Let's Go! Eevee, and Shining Pearl halfway.

@Ralizah I honestly feel like most discussions about Scarlet/Violet have so far been so uninteresting as they've mostly focused on the technical side of things. I mean we get it, but what about the actual game? Our discussion the other day about level scaling is probably the first interesting topic about the game that I've seen so far. Everything else has been glitches this, performance that. Blown out of proportion might I add as I've played for 25 hours and seen very little oddities. The experience obviously differs from person to person, but I still think it's so redundant that one person experiences an awooga glitch, then hundreds of thousands of people share that and suddenly everyone thinks that's what the game is like. The amount of ridicule this game is receiving is completely undeserving. It should be called out but not to this extent.

It's funny you should mention voice acting because I've seen some great clips of people showcasing what it would be like if the game had voice acting, such as this one:

@LtSarge That YouTube video is getting a lot of traction.

Good.

I don't know how far in you are, but there's a particularly egregious bit near the end where characters in your party are conversing while you're running around, and... like... it's good dialogue, but I have to stop playing because I can't play and read the on-screen text at the same time. So much is lost without voice work.

As for performance concerns dominating discussion online about the games, this has become the norm for the series. Some aspect of the new generation will be seen as controversial/bad, and people will harp on about that controversial/bad thing relentlessly when they first releases. The games will sell 20 million copies anyway, and the angry discourse will largely cease as people who were piling on get bored and find something else to be angry about.

@Ralizah Playing Dragon Quest XI has reminded how great voice work can elevate a JRPG. None of your terrible 4Kids dubs, just actors delivering material with exactly the amount of respect that it deserves. Pokémon’s more cinematic entries like the Cube games already could have had voice acting reasonably but it’s probably more egregious these days.

@nessisonett Ironically, I believe the original Japanese PS4 release of DQXI didn't even include voice acting. The localized PS4 release added in an English track, and then one of the more publicized features of XI S on Switch was the inclusion of Japanese vocals.

Complex modern JRPGs with cinematic setpieces and cutscenes absolutely need voice acting. It's insane that they'll feature voice acting in promotional teasers for Scarlet, but not in the game itself.

@Ralizah The best bit of additional content with DQ11 is the ability to switch to the DQ8 overworld music. Thank god I never have to listen to that atrocious field music ever again.

@nessisonett I actually can't relate to that sentiment at all. I absolutely love XI's symphonic overworld theme (it's very grand and extra, like the Legend of Zelda theme), and thought VIII had one of the worst soundtracks in the entire series.

Granted, keep in mind I said the symphonic version that's in XI S. Like most of XI's soundtrack, the MIDI version in the original PS4 release is almost unlistenable.

@Ralizah I just find it so grating! Same as the battle theme, which I really wish I could change. And then there’s one dungeon theme in particular which goes super shrill at certain moments. There’s like zero variety as well, there was a massive opportunity to compose music that fit the varied cultures in the game, but there’s about 1 or 2 town themes in the whole game. It’s a minor slight on a fantastic game but it’s probably the worst crime that Koichi Sugiyama’s committed, including the rampant homophobia and genocide denial 😛

@nessisonett What? No! I love Unflinchable Courage.

Admittedly, the first part of it is a little quirky (it sounds like it was ripped out of a tv show made in the 1960s), which is most of what you'll be hearing, but it's a solid battle theme overall.

I also liked how it featured a mix of new and old tunes, which fit particularly well with the S version, which feels like a celebration of the series' history.

I mean, it's not Xenoblade or Final Fantasy-tier music, but I had no issues with it when I was playing the game.

If you want a JRPG with a questionable soundtrack, look no further than Persona 3. This song, in particular, which plays during the majority of the school life sequences, made me want to claw my ears off.

Some of the music in Tartarus as well:

The battle theme is super catchy, but the rest of the soundtrack... eugh

@Ralizah Hahaha, think we just have different tastes because I love the majority of Persona 3’s soundtrack! Other than the Tartarus ‘music’ of course, although it still beats the Mementos theme from 5 at least!

@nessisonett Neither is a particularly appealing piece of music, although I'd still go with P5's Mementos theme if push came to shove, as it lacks the ear grating noises in the background.

Still, Mementos dives were my cue to put on a podcast or something in the background. Particularly once you get to the point where the Morgana van can insta-kill all of the enemies in your path.

Most of the P5 soundtrack is 10/10, though. Probably the only Meguro soundtrack I actually really like, tbh. While he doesn't have the same celebrity factor/name recognition, Ryota Kozuka's work on SMT IV/IV: Apocalypse/V blows away almost everything I've heard from Meguro outside of P5.

Although, if I'm being brutally honest, the Atlus series with the best music is easily Etrian Odyssey. Yuzo Koshiro did amazing work on those games.

@Ralizah Etrian Odyssey IV is my dream record that I’d buy in an instant. I haven’t played enough of the rest of the series to judge though! I do have Persona 5 on vinyl but if I’m being honest, I wish I’d waited for the box set with 3, 4 and 5 given I love about 80% of all 3 of those games’ soundtracks.

@nessisonett EOIV is my all-around favorite in pretty much every way, but the level of consistency in terms of how good the music is has been pretty remarkable. Some fans maintain that Koshiro's genius is best suited to chiptune music (to the point where Atlus has offered premium DLC for recent games featuring chiptune remixes of all the tracks in the games), but I've always felt like being able to utilize a wider array of actual instruments really boosted what he's capable of. Even when it comes to remaking tracks from early games.

Like this one from Etrian Odyssey Untold:

Which was originally a track in Etrian Odyssey 1:

Both catchy, but there's more depth in the newer track.

Although that's not universally true. A few tracks that received updates in newer games and remakes haven't been able to match the originals. One in particular that comes to mind is the Etrian Odyssey III boss theme, where the original theme's intensity has never been topped by newer versions.

It sort of reminds me of how Xenoblade DE featured remixed music, and 90% of it was a massive improvement on the original's score, but then the new version of You Will Know Our Names added too many instruments and lost the ferocity of the original.