Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

it was Meh to be honest "over 20 exclusive games" all of which were Indy or Arcade titles, not really showing off all that power for the XBOX ONE X (boy what a dumb name)

a few things did get my attention though, OG XBOX Backwards Compatibility was nice, Minecraft adding cross platform play (they didn't say PS4 but i'm sure i saw it in there in the wide shot when then were showing some of the systems and excluding it would just be stupid) but if the standard XB1 can do that too why pay $499 for the Triple X (it has Three X's in the name) because they certainly didn't show anything to warrant it, perhaps they are saving their big guns for the next games conference

also anyone else notice the acronym for "XBOX ONE X" Is X.B.O.X

@FullbringIchigo Forza 7, Crackdown 3 and Sea of Thieves are not 'indie/arcade' games. Granted only Forza really shows off 4k as the other 2 are more 'simplistic' in artstyle - maybe because they were built for the XB1 first and foremost and scaled-up rather than something like Forza which is built for 4k first and the scaled down. The same applies to games like Assassins Creed, Metro, Shadow of War and Anthem - games that will be 4k with 4k assets on PC's. I know not many PC gamers have 4k capable hardware but that doesn't mean developers build games to the 'lowest' standard and with 4k GPU's becoming more affordable and the fact that PC's are not 'generational', this makes them more 'future' proof too.

It was inevitable that OG Xbox BC would come. Its been requested, rumoured etc for a while and Phil Spencer himself has said he wants that too. I think its great - whether I actually use it or not is a different matter. I may have to dig out my big box of XB1 games but having low res 4:3 games on a 4k HDR screen could really show their age.

With so many 'fan' favourite games and a lot of requests for these franchises, I would have preferred MS to announce the return of these in 'new' games - not necessarily remasters but actual 'new' games. Blinx, PGR, Rallisport Challenge, Crimson Skies etc...

Still its better than nothing.

As for showing off 'nothing', you have to remember that games like Fifa, CoD, Destiny, RDR2, SW:BF2, Wolfenstein, Evil Within, Project Cars, Need for Speed, Far Cry, Cyberpunk, Kingdom Hearts and all the other 'big' AAA games that MS can't or didn't showcase will also be enhanced too. How much and whether its 'significant' enough over the 'cheaper' Pro, time will tell.

I know the Pro does a 'good' job of stepping up the visuals - especially considering that most are nothing more than just a 'boost' to resolution whilst keeping all the textures and visual effects at the same level as the PS4. Also considering that often the GPU is rendering between 2x900p (1800p checkerboard), 2x1080p (4k checkerboard) or a native 1440p. However in some games, you have to pick between PS4 level visuals and a 'higher' frame rate OR the higher visuals. Its possible that the XBX 'could' (not saying it is) offer a HQ (native) 4k/30fps mode or a 'dynamic' (to use Sony's words to indicate a Checkerboard and/or upscaled) 4k/60fps - meaning that you are still getting a 'better than' Pro level of visual fidelity (thanks to the enhanced 4k assets) but a 60fps option. It might not be 'true' 4k/60 in these games but its still 'better' than HD/60.

The XBX also has better Audio capability - meaning we could have Atmos/DTS-X in games, and of course the 4k HDR Bluray player too - all in a small, sleek box that's around the price of a stand-alone 4k HDR Bluray player. Don't get me wrong, I do think its 'expensive' compared to alternatives and really MS's software was a little disappointing, although we still don't know its VR capability or software line-up (maybe Fallout 4 and Doom - as well as RE7 could be amongst that) but we also need to factor in the software they 'couldn't' show...

@BAMozzy i'm not saying the XBX doesn't have potential because it does but the press briefing did nothing to show it off apart from Forza

as for the Indy/Arcade games i wasn't talking about Forza, Crackdown or Sea of Thieves and i apologise but i simply forgot to mention them in my post

as for Assassin's Creed i'll be honest as i don't own a 4K TV it's not really of any real consequence to me same as all those PS4 Pro updates, they don't do anything for me as i don't own a Pro either

when i was on about all the other games they showed most looked to be either Indy titles or Arcade Titles and to me while some did look very interesting, as an XB1 owner i saw NOTHING there that made me go "yep i need a XBOX ONE X" i can get all of those on my XB1 and they will still look really good on my standard 1080p HDTV, i don't see how the power of the XBX is going to help Cuphead look or play any different to the standard XB1 version

they should have brought out a few big guns, even if was just showing how Gears 4 looked on a XBX just so we get a much better picture of what they are trying to sell

@KratosMD I know - its a bit like hearing the Xbox 'only' has Forza, Halo and Gears games. Both Forza and Halo have two very distinct 'spin-offs' and Horizon is one of, if not the best open world driving game - something EA have tried to copy with the direction of Need for Speed. Halo is not just a FPS but also has a top down shooter and an RTS game too.

@FullbringIchigo They only had an hour and a half, wanted to show off all these games and also have to appeal to all those with an XB1 too. Those with an XB1 don't want to be 'forced' into buying a XBX to play these games. Maybe outside of the E3 briefing, in the run up to launch, we could see those 'comparison's' you are so desperate for. People would complain if the spent 20mins showing off their 'old' games running on an XB1 and XBX side by side when most will be watching on 1080p screens. Sony struggled with their reveal for Pro and many couldn't see much difference with their 4k presentations. It was left for journalists to enthuse over the differences. I think MS were a bit better at stating the benefits to 1080p owners - even if they don't understand the benefits of 'supersampled' images, Anisotropic Filtering etc. The fact is a lot of 3rd Party games can't run in full HD yet with the XBX, you get a 'better' than 1080p image and all those games from the OG Era onwards will look and run better, load faster etc too.

The Coalition’s Colin Penty played through part of Gears of War 4 using the Xbox One X enhancement patch, which is coming to the game for free in the fall. Pente said the patch will let the game run in 4K resolution. The Xbox One X version will also get visual upgrades including real-time dynamic shadows and “up-rezzed textures for environments, characters and effects” and improved draw distance, among other things.

As stated, the majority of games that will benefit the most are those 3rd party multi-platform releases that were built for 4k first and foremost - the ones that are also going to be on 'high-end' PC's. Its unclear how many developers will use the XBX for just '4k' visual enhancements or will add '60fps' additional modes. We may have to rely on individual developers and Digital Foundry to really give us the actual benefits and side-by-side comparisons...

My biggest reason for not getting an X-Box is I don't feel like I'm missing out by not having one. They have a handful of games that I would enjoy playing but none of them give me that "I must play that game feeling".

Any multi-platform game I'm always going to get on PS4 so selling me with must have exclusives is the only way they are going to get me to buy one. Their lineup just isn't for me.

The Switch on the other hand offers me games I can't play anywhere else.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-12-the-big-intervie...

Great interview with Phil Spencer - also explains the game choice for E3's showing, what any 3rd Party deal will entail from MS, PS4 Minecraft cross-platform ambition etc.

@KratosMD compared to Nintendo and Sony, Microsoft tries to compete on the games front as cheaply as possible.

Like it's Windows suite of 6/7 programs, it's tried that with Xbox. Forza, gears, halo, Minecraft, a random rare game and crackdown. Then it forms alliances to cover the rest. But Sony stomps all over that in every way. With a plethora of first party games and stumps up the cash for 3rd party exclusives.

As an avid Xbox gamer, towards the back end of 360 nothing was being released that wasn't available on PS3. So the presentation confirms its still struggling to produce a solid quantity of good games for some time.

That's my take on the situation, I wasn't particularly enamored by Sonys presser of Uncharted style games either and e3 for me has been a bit of a let down.

But my expectations are higher than ever, having played some of the best games ever made in the last 2 years.

@Splat That is my feeling about the XB1 - I don't massively feel like I am losing out.

That isn't the same as saying that MS has no exclusives or there is no reason to own one. For me, in the 360 era, I played through most of their exclusive offerings so am burnt out on the 'big' franchises. Sony, as a content provider, had more that I was interested in personally while a lot of XB's exclusives haven't spoken to me personally. There are some great games I haven't played, and a few I would like to play plus I think their subscription and BC policy are miles ahead of Sony. However, for me, with a 360 still connected, no reason for me to go ahead.

I felt during the MS presser that there wasn't necessarily a case for either myself or the average gamer to get an XB1X at that price point while the presser seemed massively geared towards pushing the XB1X. This is a stark contrast to Sony who marketed the pro quietly as an alternative to those who wanted a bit better performance. A few amazing exclusives though that would sizzle on the XB1X would have helped a bit more I think.

Oh and I am clearly in the minority that thinks Sea of Thieves looks quite good

@KratosMD Forza is probably the 'best' racing franchise currently on the Market. I know GT has a higher sales overall but Forza is 'superior'and Horizon the best open world racer. Halo was great and could well have been considered the best at one point. Certainly better than Killzone and Resistance in a lot of ways but recently, it has gone downhill - at least in terms of Campaign. 4 was 'good' if somewhat brief and 5 - the less said about that the better.

Its worth reading that interview with Phil Spencer. In it he states the objective for E3 was to show the games coming up in the next year, the games we will be playing before next E3, the games he is certain will be delivered. He doesn't want to be showing the same games over and over again in consecutive shows, doesn't want to show games that end up being cancelled or constantly delayed. He wants to make a 'promise' to the consumers that what you see, you will be playing 'soon' and won't have 'changed' from the original concept we first saw and got hyped at. He wanted to show the games you can play on XBX in the first 6-7months (well those he can show), not games you could play in 3-4 years....

I can see his point and to a degree this was the approach last year as well. Games like ReCore, FH3, GoW4, HW2 were shown off and all arrived within the year. Its been a tough year with Fable Legends, Scalebound and studio closures, constantly asked about cuphead after that was revealed years ago and so appears to be tightening up what they are 'prepared' to reveal and when. To a degree I do understand his PoV. For me Sony's fell a bit flat - not because the games were 'bad', just because we saw them last year and most of those with dates still seem a long way off. Already spent a year waiting... Imagine if Sony had kept Days Gone, Spider-Man, God of War, Last of Us 2, Detroit etc and replaced those with Persona, Nioh, Nier, Gravity Rush, Hellblade etc instead. This year, with them coming out in a year, E3 would have had more impact and it wouldn't have had to much of a 'negative' impact on last years - especially with all those 'exclusives' coming very soon. How long ago was it we saw Dreams and Wild yet still seem no closer to release.

I can honestly say that Sea of Thieves does not appeal. Even if it had the artstyle of Skull n' Bones or released on Sony consoles. Its not a game I would want to play. If that was its MP and it had a great offline Single Player, it would appeal more but no interest in a 'shared world' online game - especially one with 'competitive' elements. It just opens up to much opportunity for idiots and people who have nothing better to do than go round trying to ruin others enjoyment. At least Destiny got their shared world right by having unique to person loot, ammo, resources etc and no friendly-fire etc in their PvE spaces...

@KratosMD Halo has been surpassed by Destiny, Cod and the slew of other fps games. Forza is great, I do miss it that's true. Ive had fun with Driveclub but it's a real drop off in quality compared to Forza.

But we've got the best racing game in Wipeout anyways lol.

@themcnoisy out of curiosity, what did you think of Project Cars?

i thought it was a decent alternative to Forza

@FullbringIchigo never played it, was advised against playing with a pad by my Driveclub team.

@themcnoisy Project Cars takes Racing Sims to a whole new level. Arguably to get the most out of any Driving Sim though you do need a wheel and Project Cars is no different. It is playable with a pad but because they are going for a more realistic approach to racing, the best way to experience that is with a Racing Wheel. You could argue the same for Forza and GT too.

Project Cars 2 takes racing to the next degree again. With a feature called LiveTrack 3.0, Project Cars 2 amps up the detail in a number of ways. Beyond just weather, ambient temperature, track temperature, altitude and other atmospheric conditions all have an impact your car's performance. We're talking things like engine performance, aerodynamics, brakes and tires.

Project Cars 2 also employs fluid dynamics, so when you're driving in a rainstorm, the track conditions react more like they would in the real world. For example, if it's raining so hard that the ground can't absorb the water fast enough, it will pool, run downhill and create a tricky puddle situation. All the tracks have accurately recreated all the drainage too, so that the water dissipates as it would if you really racing round that track in those conditions. LiveTrack 3.0 also spreads loose dirt and gravel on the track when you run off-course. All of this affects the way a car will handle. If raining and you go off track, it will track wet mud onto the course - creating a different level of grip. As the track dries, so will the mud which will create a different set of conditions.

The controls are maybe not quite as forgiving as games like Driveclub but they are more on the realistic side. For those wanting the most realistic racer, not just aesthetically, Project Cars has to be the best but that's not to say others can't deliver a great console racing Sim either. Its maybe 'too' realistic and therefore not as 'easy' or as forgiving as some of the others. The others have gone for making the game more accessible to all and a great console racer first and foremost where as Project Cars have gone for more accuracy. Its built off of a programme that real professional drivers use to practice on so its not really a game for the 'casual' racer.

For all those that thought MS didn't really show what the XBX can do, Anthem was running on an XBX. Patrick Söderlund, Executive VP of EA Worldwide Studios, confirmed that the game was running in real time on the Xbox One X, something that Digital Foundry was able to confirm after analyzing the gameplay footage and finding that 2160p checkerboard rendering was in place – something that wouldn’t make much sense if the game was running on a high-end PC. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-anthem-...

Full interview here - time-stamped so you don't have to watch everything...

Metro was confirmed to be running on a PC but with Xbox One X specs. 4A Games have now come forward and confirmed that while the E3 demo itself may not have been running on an Xbox One X at the time, the visual quality of the footage is indeed representative of what the game will look like on the upcoming Microsoft system revision. “This is actually representative of what it will look like on an Xbox One X,” said John Bloch, the game’s executive producer when the question was posed to him in an interview with Geoff Keighley. “It was captured on a PC of similar specs.” According to the developers, they are targeting full 4K with HDR on the Xbox One X. They didn’t however, reveal the final frame rate, but did confirm that the game was seen running on a PC with specs comparable to the Xbox One.

Assassins Creed: Origins may be using a checkerboard technique to deliver 4k - like Anthem - but Ubisoft have pioneered the technique and improved on it since Rainbow Six: Seige. Even PC Owners can take advantage of this with the use of 'temporal filtering' as its called. This enables PC owners to use much higher visual settings (shadows etc) or significantly improve frame rates. "Temporal Filtering" is a revolution for gaming, enabling significant bumps in image quality and performance, without a reduction in detail of other settings. Essentially, free performance with no readily-seen drawbacks - so say a lot of PC mags.

Visually Digital Foundry were full of praise for this game - Origins impresses with intricate environment detail and long draw distances standing out. Houses, trees, and other structures are visible for far into the distance, while pop-in caused by LOD transitions appears less aggressive than previous series entries. Texture quality is equally impressive, and elements such as brickwork and cloth are rich in detail, and we can assume that Xbox One X's 12GB of memory can comfortably accommodate the PC's top-end 4K textures. Lighting is also improved over the previous game too, with indications that a new global illumination technique is used to add depth to locations featuring more ambient lighting. A distinct glow is noticeable as light bounces off the walls to the floor, and this infuses a little more atmosphere into the high contrast environments in the level we saw. Volumetric effects also enhance the bloom from sun light as it scatters across the sky, while soft lightshafts beam down through market stalls and houses at ground level. It's a good fit for the Egyptian setting, where the bright daytime sunlight allows the engine to showcase some nice volumetric effects and a solid level of dynamic range. This bodes well for the HDR support that is promised for the final release.

DF were less impressed with the actual mechanics and animations - which didn't look to be overhauled but more a slight refinement. Melee clashes present with greater fluidity than in previous Assassin's Creed titles but some actions still appear quite stiff and lack the flow of movement compared to the likes of Horizon Zero Dawn or Uncharted 4 - typical Ubisoft... LOL. However that is likely to be universal across all consoles but visually, it appears to be at least representative of the XBX but as neither is actually out and AC:O is in alpha build, we will have to wait.

Forza Motorsport 7 though will be running in Native 4k with 4k Assets and like Project Cars 2 features Dynamic weather effects and dynamic track conditions too - like puddles that grow as rain falls and affects handling.

I know games like Sea of Thieves, Crackdown, State of Decay etc aren't going to be the 'best' to show of Scorpio.... errr Xbox One X even Ori that looked incredible could still look great on an standard XB1, but if these 4 look this good, then how good will other 3rd Party games look? We can guess how good SW:BF2 could look after seeing Anthem for example and Söderlund also spoke of seeing other Frostbite games up and running on an XBX - like Madden, Fifa and BF1. Assassin's Creed could give us an indication of Ubisoft games - like Far Cry, Skull n Bones, The Crew 2 etc.

As someone with a 4k HDR TV, the XBX looks like it could be a great console. I know its £100 more than a Pro, but that £100 doesn't just buy better visuals, it's buying better Audio (Dolby Atmos) and a 4k HDR Bluray player too. I can totally understand why people may want to go the cheaper option, because of the greater quantity of quality 'exclusives' and 'maybe' because I already own a Pro myself, I am still excited by the XBX.

What makes me laugh is the 'notion' that the XBX will be held back or nerfed by developers going for 'parity' between this and the Pro - what? just like the 'parity' we saw between the PS4 and XB1??

@BAMozzy i wonder why they chose to use a P.C for Metro?, although with MS also pushing Windows 10 as a gaming platform it doesn't really matter at a MS conference does it?

i still don't like the name though "XBOX ONE X" just doesn't roll of the tongue very well and is a little too similar to XBOX ONE s i think, it might confuse some people like the Wii U did so hopefully MS will be able to make it clear what the differences are between the 2 to the average consumer

i for one do hope it does well for MS, even if i'm not going to get one same as the Pro, i don't have a 4K TV or any kind of monitor that can do 4K so i'm happy with my XB1s and PS4

gonna use that money to save for a Switch ^_^

@FullbringIchigo I think that either maybe 4A games were too early in development to port their game code over to a XBX or that maybe they hadn't received their Dev Kit in time to do so. Personally I don't think it matters whether they show it on a PC or not but you know fanboys and how they will pick up on anything like that and use it negatively instead of focusing on the positive - in this case, the return of Metro and a completely new and surprising reveal - nobody knew or even guessed this would be at E3! At least they were honest about it and stated it was on PC even if that PC was specced similarly to XBX to give a representation of the Visuals we can expect.

I really hoped that they kept Scorpio in the name - Xbox One Scorpio if it had to keep the XB1 part. I understand why the 'X' but I don't like it either. I think the average consumer, no matter how 'dense' will know the difference - £200+ difference - whether they understand what that difference actually means, I don't know.

There are some people that 'actually' think the XB1s is running games at '4K' just because they don't understand what upscaling is and think because their Xbox has stretched that small image to fit a 2160p screen, they are 'getting' a 4k quality image. There are some that think that a game is displaying on a TV at 900p for example too without 'upscaling' even though the whole image displayed is 1920x1080p (the whole screen size) without any borders that a 1600x900p image would have - because the developers/DF etc all state the game was a 900p game... Funny but some have Sky (or equivalent) and understand the difference between SD and HD - although still don't realise that 'Sky' upscales the SD image. On SkyQ if you set the output to 2160p, its actually Sky that upscales SD and HD upto 2160p but people still know the difference between SD and HD even if they don't know which device is handling the upscale.

There are people that also are now taking that 'all our games will be native 4k and UP TO 60fps' to mean that 'every' game will be native 4k and 60fps. MS also said that they built the Xbox to scale games from 1080p to 4k and actually were able to get 900p games up to native 4k too. Temporal Filtering (as it is on PC) or checkerboarding enables developers to push the visual settings beyond the level of what was possible before and give us better visual settings with no impact to frame rate - things like better draw distances, better reflections, better lighting and particle effects but the game is still delivering a true 4k image - not a 1440-1800p image with HD quality assets and the same level of visuals of the base version that is then upscaled to 4k. A case in point is Rainbow Six which is a checkerboard 1080p but one of the best looking 1080p games and if they hadn't used checkerboarding. Both Horizon:ZD and Days Gone are using the 4k checkerboard method to deliver a 'true 4k' visual too and look incredible but MS are looking to deliver their first party games at native 4k with 4k assets and a lot (if not all) of the 3rd Party games will be 'true' 4k too - not 1440-1800p with upscaling.

I know it maybe confusing for some - but checkerboarding is not upscaling its a method of creating a full image at that size - whether 1800p or 2160p its still delivering the 'full' pixel count. It may only draw half of the pixels per frame but its not like the other half are 'missing' but kept from the previous frame instead of being redrawn. Upscaling is a method of taking a 'small' image and stretching it up to fit a larger screen resolution. I would rather have Checkerboard 4k than 1440p upscaled even though the GPU is effectively rendering the same number of pixels per frame.

I can understand why you may not want an XBX. Its not as if the games won't be available to you and whist there are still benefits to 1080p TV owners, a Switch at least can bring something an XBX can't - new software/games. Maybe if MS do get their AR/VR to XBX - especially their vision of a wireless solution, or as time goes on, some 'differences' in other content (like we saw with Nintendo and the Expansion Pack - something I see happening first with 3rd Party if at all) then maybe revisit that if its more relevant then.

For me with a 4k HDR TV, its exciting. If this is a 'small' sample of the possibilities, I can't wait. Its not like I don't have a Pro which I bought for basically the same reason - to enhance my gaming and to play games at the 'highest' level available on Console. Its maybe more than I was hoping to pay and more Money than I would expect a 'new' generation console to cost - that £400 mark but the jump to 4k I guess is much more significant in terms of power requirement than going from 720p-1080p. This is like going from 540p SD to full HD in one jump in resolution terms. Essentially for that £100 difference, you are getting 43% more GPU, 50% more RAM (80% more for gaming) with 50% more bandwidth, 4k Bluray player and Dolby Atmos. In any terms, that's a lot for just a £100 and PC gamers would love to get that much of an upgrade for that price...

@BAMozzy With all the third party games releasing this year are you planning on waiting for the XBX before you play them? I don't think I could start playing Forza 7, CoD WW2 etc. before the XBX releases, I would rather experience the games at their best for the very first time on XBX.

@MaccaMUFC Think I just answered that in the Days Gone article comments. LOL

Forza 7 can wait - just a Single Player game for me - Not a racing Sim fan but at least the dynamic weather and tracks will help break up the repetition of feeling like you are going round the same tracks over and over again. This is normally a game I play for 'something different' from all the action, adventure, shooter games.

CoD:WW2 arrives just 4 days before the XBX so doubt I would start the SP. MP is different and would start that. Destiny 2 would not wait but I could keep a class/character until that point. Its not as if the content isn't reused over and over again and besides I think its great to have a 'before and after' - a game that you can play, become familiar with, to show how much of a difference its made, what your Money has bought. No point looking at a game that you last played a year or more ago as sometimes you think it looked better than it did and the enhanced look isn't quite so significant. I found this with some Pro games and it wasn't until I went 'back' that I realised how much sharper they were. Not saying they didn't look better - just that I also thought they were better than they were on the base console - if that makes sense....

I will keep SP games like AC:O, Wolfenstein and Evil Within until after the 7th - but that's only a month and I will have games like Uncharted and Destiny to see me through.

If you have a good MP or 2, or some 'old games' you want to finish, I would play these. Its only a month between Forza and the XBX anyway and these aren't so 'time sensitive' as a MP. You don't want to be too far behind the community, still learning the maps, the guns etc when others have that knowledge so I would be less inclined to wait with these - but keep the campaign, the SP games until I can experience those in their full glory.

@BAMozzy Yeah I moved the comment from the Days Gone article to here as it was way off topic.

I suppose it makes sense to at least play MP on some of the games that come out before the XBX so I'm not only just starting to learn the layout of the maps, weapons etc. For now I'm thinking of only getting Forza 7, CoD: WW2, FIFA 18 and Cuphead before I buy an XBX.

I like the look of AC:O but the last AC I completed was Black Flag, the others I just couldn't bring myself to finish them like I started to lose interest in the series. I love Wolfenstein but like New Order I'd probably just rent it, complete the campaign then won't look back till the next sequel, same with Evil Within. I'm going to wait and see how Destiny 2 plays out, if it going to turn out to be another grind fest and holding back on lot of content like they did with the first one then I'll probably give it a pass.

This may help show some of the differences that the XBX makes - at least in this game - If I can find the high res version rather than a screen capture, I will replace it...

Shows a 1080p capture of the 4k image to show how poor the above image is