Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

@BAMozzy I would think that the console will be a good seller for MS, at least I hope it will. I'm certainly looking forward to the launch and seeing the upgrade over my One.

@crippyd It seems better geared towards the 4k era than any other console and for those with 1080p TV's, a noticeable upgrade over the XB1. We all know that the XB1 doesn't offer as many games in the full 1080p so even on 1080p screens, games have a bit more softness to them. Even those in 1080p though on the XB1 can look better too - with higher quality textures etc. Of course those with the latest 4k UHD Premium TV's and/or Atmos Audio set-up's should benefit the most.

I also think MS are better placed to offer newcomers to the family with things like Game Pass and better for those interested in more than just the latest era of games with its Backwards Compatibility.

I do find it funny that now the 'X' is about to launch, with a much more significant difference than the gap between XB1 and PS4, I see a lot of people saying that 'power and visuals' don't matter as much as 'exclusives' - reminds me of the things Xbox fanboys were saying 4yrs ago when the Sony fanboys were saying 'enjoy those games at 900p LMAO' and that they buy more multi-platform games anyway so they are getting the 'best'. I don't care either way as I have a Pro so I can pick whether I want the best looking/playing games or the version that may have extra/timed content but visually almost 'last' gen by comparison. I know that may sound 'insulting' to Pro owners, calling their console almost last 'gen' by comparison but its averaging around 1440p (CB 1800 is a little lower pixel count and CB 2160 a little higher) and using 1080p quality assets/textures. That would be like the last gen '720p' either using CB 900p (2x450p) or CB1080p (2x540p) with 540p textures compared to a 1080p console with 1080p textures, like a DVD vs Bluray quality player. Now if that isn't 'last' gen what is?

I must admit I am still a bit 'disappointed' with MS's approach. Whilst its great that, at least for the moment, all XB1 games/peripherals etc work across both, it doesn't fill me with confidence that my 'X' experience will be optimised and could be 'relatively' short-lived. I can't see how MS can think their XB1 is at its 'half-way' point 4yrs into the generation when its obviously not even built to deliver the full HD experience. Had MS 'not' released the 'X' this year, I don't think anyone would have been 'surprised' if MS released a next gen Xbox for the 4k era. It wouldn't have been too early after 4yrs if you look at the OG Xbox and when MS released its 360 (incidentally that was 4yrs after). MS probably could have held off another year at most but with many AAA games increasingly running at 720-900p, with lower and lower visual setting qualities, I find it hard to see how it could last another 2yrs let alone 3-4yrs. Will MS turn around to EA or Activision and say they 'can't' release a game on XB1 because they can't get it running at a 'reasonable' level when it would work perfectly well on the 'X'? I don't think 1st Party games will 'struggle' so much as MS do look like they target 1080p on base consoles, built with this in mind but 3rd Party devs are making games on PC's to run with bigger GPU/CPU's and then porting down to console, cutting frame-rates, resolutions, visual settings etc down to run on the limited hardware.

It will be much be much harder for MS, I think, to build a next gen Xbox. They can't exactly offer an 'improved media' - better than 4k HDR, better than 'Atmos' Audio, better than 4k HDR visuals with 4k assets (OK so they may be able to offer 'more' native and less dynamically scaling' games with maybe bit higher visual settings). In fact the only 'area' MS could really offer a tangible upgrade in is frame-rates. More games running at 60fps. Everything else is the same as the 'X' offers and people will rightfully ask, why should I need to upgrade when my 'X' 'should' be powerful enough to run these games? People could ask why they didn't make the X a next Gen and the XB1 essentially a BC option within that rather than lock this 'beast' to the very much weaker XB1. How much will that hold it back? Games that could run at 60, being capped at 30 for example? In the worst case scenarios missing out on content or even whole games because they wont run well on XB1. I guess they could still release on the weaker hardware - much to the annoyance of those still on the console - make them feel like they have to upgrade to actually 'play' the game at decent performance.

Its different to the PS4 - mostly because these are very much closer in terms of hardware specs. A slight tweak on CPU and RAM speeds and an 'extra GPU' bolted on to double resolution - not a 4.3-4.6x boost, with Massive RAM increase and much higher speeds, not a modified CPU to offload much of the workload to other areas to free up room for other tasks, not building in HDMI 2.1 features before 2.1 even launches. If Sony turned round and said 'X' game won't be coming to PS4 (and therefore Pro) because of CPU and RAM limitations, you could 'accept' that much better than MS saying it when their 'X' is clearly far more capable - even if it meant the game had to run at 1080-1440p!

In my mind, with MS saying they are moving away from 'generations', I would think that in 3-4yrs time, when the base XB1 is 7-8yrs old and 4k really has become the 'majority' (I think 4k is at a much higher % amongst gamers than the 'global' average as I can't see many 50+ age ranges bothering to upgrade when their HD TV is adequate for the content they watch Between 20-40 though, I bet the 4k TV is much higher and with gamers/techies and AV enthusiasts - the highest. I have owned 4k for 3yrs+ now), MS would release 'X2' and the base XB1 gradually phased out - much like the 360/PS3 were phased out with 'fewer' big AAA games releasing. In this case though MS stating that the 'X' is the minimum or recommended console and the X2 the 'enhanced/best' version. Essentially the 'X' becoming the XB1 and the X2 the iterative upgrade. 3-4ys later, the 'X', now 7-8yrs old, is slowly phased out, the X2 becomes the 'minimum' and X3 the 'enhanced'. Mirroring the PC market essentially and upgrading a GPU every 3-4yrs. Eventually that 7-8yr old GPU will find fewer games that it meets the 'minimum requirement' for but as soon as you upgrade, your library isn't made obsolete and a lot actually run/look better too.

Its that 'mixed' messaging and long term plan that I am not so pleased with. I am of course attracted to the bigger, better, shinier that MS are offering but on the one hand they are are talking about a generation free future and 'borrowing' the best bits of the PC ecosystem yet on the other calling the 'X' nothing more than a more powerful XB1. They seem to have dropped VR too - the one 'big' grey area - something the more powerful device offered - hardware and games - that would not be offered to base XB1 owners.So much for getting our Fallout 4 VR that E3 2016's reveal mentioned...

Anyway I have rambled enough and could ramble more too. I am still looking forward to my Project Scorpio and will have a lot of games - old and new - that will take advantage of this extra power.

@BAMozzy I think MS are going more for AR rather than VR and I'm not sure how they will be going forward with the new generationless consoles. I think you might be correct in how you see it working with the One being the BC console and X being minimum spec etc. Sam here though, really looking forward to my new console and playing the great games I've been enjoying for the past 10 years or so. I'm really not bothered about console exclusive games as the ones I play tend to be third party any way except for Halo and Gears.

@crippyd I have lost 'faith' in Halo - never really liked the MP so its always been the campaign that drew me in. Gears is a favourite but I was still a bit disappointed with 4 although in fairness, I think the Coalition at least did a better job than 343 have with Halo (so far). Gears 4 looked great in HDR though but not sure I will replay it when the X arrives - maybe a level or two just to compare.

Forza MotorSport has become quite 'boring' in general but I feel that way with 'Sim' racers - not just Forza. Horizon is more 'fun' and varied but saying that, I have pre-ordered 7. Not just because of the visuals but because of the dynamic Weather that I hope changes things up more. I get bored of driving round one circuit, then moving to the next which feels similar to the last (a different combination of bends and straights but the 'same' objective) and then repeat ad-infinitum (or ad-nauseam LOL). I still have a LOT to do with Forza Horizon 3 which I purposefully have not attempted to do a lot knowing the X was coming. I couldn't resist Gears though - especially as I bought the Gears XB1s and that came with the console. I still haven't played much of the co-op/MP or added the DLC that my Season Pass enabled me to do - another thing I could 'check' with the X when I get mine.

I can't say that PUBG, Cuphead, Crackdown 3, State of Decay etc appeal either and like you, even with a PS and their Exclusives, I buy and play a LOT more multi-platform games. In the next 2 months, I have pre-ordered more multi-platform games than I have bought Exclusives in the past 18-24months. I will install the games - like Forza 7, AC: Origins, Wolfenstein 2, Evil within 2 etc on my XB1s External to update to 4k ready for the X. A simple case of plugging in my HDD to the X should enable me to be up and running very quickly on the 7th.

The 'issue' with that system of a rolling 'iterative' upgrade though is 'parity'. We know that the PC isn't necessarily 'fair' with keeping frame-rates 'similar' across the variety of different hardware. If you do get a 'game' (like CoD for example) in that phase when all 3 consoles (the 7-8yr old XB1, the 3-4yr old X and a new iterative 'X2'), would they all run a 'locked' and/or consistent 'equal' frame rate? Say for example the only way the XB1 version runs 'well' enough is at 30fps, would devs have a 'different' capped rate to create a 'smooth' experience for all? Nerf the X and/or X2 to 30fps to keep parity? Maybe just set the 'Cap' at 60fps but know the XB1 won't get above 35fps and would feel erratic? On the PS4/Pro - BF1 is 'capped' at 60fps but in MP game-play, the PS4 can be 15+fps lower in some situations.

You could argue that is an 'advantage' to those with the better console and its a 'loophole' for devs say capping the frame rate at the 'highest' possible so they can say its a '60fps' game even though the base may never reach that in 'active' (i.e not looking at the floor or nose to a wall to reduce the GPU stress). I know say 45fps vs 60fps isn't the same as 30 vs 60 but the way TV's refresh rates work, 45fps can feel worse because its not coinciding with the refresh rate of a TV. 30fps for example means that the 'new' frame always falls on the screen 'refresh' although the screen will refresh 'twice' with the same image because its refreshing at 60 times per second. This is why we see 30 or 60fps games and why a 30fps can feel smoother and better than a 45fps game despite it having a 'higher' fps.

With a 'new' generation, it of course leaves devs 'free' to not worry about parity/fairness. It also leaves manufacturers free to build the console how they wish - no need to worry about the former gen, the players and parity, no need to worry about the old games working on new hardware and vice versa - even free to go to other APU manufacturers and use completely different CPU/GPU architecture that may suit the future games better. The PS5 'CoD' gamers are unlikely to be in the 'same' lobbies as the PS4 gamers so they 'could' have differing frame-rates - even content too. With iterative hardware though, you could end up with the 'N64' situation where some games only work with the upgraded hardware (like DK64, Majoras Mask) or only parts of it are accessible (like Perfect Dark). Its not great for some consumers who may buy 'CoD' at the 'full' price and find out that the Campaign is disabled until you upgrade or worse, buy the 'prestige' edition with Season Pass and find out that the last 3 packs can't be played. On PS3/XB1, CoD BO3 didn't have the campaign, I don't think they sold the Season Pass and I think only the first DLC pack was sold. They couldn't take out the campaign etc because some of those buying may have the upgraded hardware. Maybe by that time, the majority had upgraded to the 'X' or X2 but the minority who still have the OG XB1 would be 'disappointed'

There are Pro's and Cons to both routes of course and it will be interesting to see how things progress. MS could also bring out a 'new' generation Xbox and then all the XB1 software joins the XB360 and OG Xbox Backwards compatibility programme - thus bringing your library forward as they stipulated they would. I do think though that has its 'Pros and Cons' too - how do they handle the situation when a game should run on the X but not releasing on that 'generation' because of the weaker XB1 for example. Still a lot of questions to answer and we may not know these for years. I can't say I will lose sleep over it whilst I enjoy the 4k HDR gaming on the X - but I still can't help thinking about this. If the state of the world continues to decline though, we may not even get to that point... LOL

anyone played the new Minecraft yet, in my opinion it needs some work, the picture seems strange and distorted when you turn and it has a few bugs and the interface isn't as friendly as the other versions

what are your thoughts?

This months Games with Gold - can't say it excites me...

Another 'close' look at Xbox X version and comparing the X Demo with the Pro/PC versions...

After this month's games next month's seems blah. Sad thing is I totally spaced on Hydro Thunder and forgot to lock it in. I hope they offer it again for free at some point, or does anyone know if I can contact MS and maybe get it free. I did have Gold for the time I just forgot to download it.

Anybody getting Cuphead? It's my type of game and I like that 1930's look.

@shonenjump86 I'll be getting it at some point but not tomorrow.

@BAMozzy @Tasuki The GwG do look a bit poor this month, I think the PS+ games look better to my eyes this coming month. Also I don't think you can claim a game once the month has passed.

@crippyd They are not exciting to me but each to their own. I haven't really been enthralled by the XB1's line up for a few month's now - although Forza 5 and Trials Fusion aren't 'bad' games. I admit I am not a fan of MGS and Amnesia doesn't really interest me either but I am still more likely to add both to my collection than these. I still have Rayman Legends on XB1 and MoH: Airbourne wasn't the 'best' when it released 10yrs ago.

Its a good job October is a 'very' busy month for me. Not sure I will play most/all of the games I have pre-ordered until November (If I can resist). Therefore I don't know that I will have time or want to play Octobers 'free' games on either system anyway.

I havrn't played a Forza game before and I prefer more "arcade" racers (outrun, midnight club, need for speed etc.)

Should I try Motorstorm 7 (or 6) or Horizon 3?

@belmont Forza Motorsport (Motorstorm was a fun PS3 arcade racer) is more like Gran Tourismo, Project Cars type of thing. Its difficult to assess whether you should play 7 as that hasn't released yet but it does look like it will be an improvement over 6 with more 'dynamic' weather. Like others in the series though, you have the usual solo progression through a variety of disciplines, the ability to upgrade your car (but be warned, if you put too much into it, your car can jump a class and be ineligible unless you swap some parts out) You can get very technical in setting ride height, tire balance, brake bias etc but if that isn't 'you' or your field of expertise, you can just leave those settings at 'default' and still have fun. Its got multiple degrees of adjusting the difficulty - from providing the full track racing line to just braking line to nothing at all. You can also rewind (or turn that option off entirely), set the AI difficulty etc. The more aids you turn off, the higher the difficulty settings, the bigger the 'bonus' so you can tailor the experience to your ability - maybe just above to push you and earn more credits. It is though, like any other Racing Sim in that you have a range of cars going from 'basic' road going small cars all the way up to supercars, le mans cars and even racing trucks. The principal is still the same though, in that your objective is to drive around tracks, racing other similar cars.

Horizon 3 is a bit more like Burnout Paradise. You can spend all day just driving around 'Australia - not bothering to race. You will come across drivers though that if you want to race on the fly, you can - get from point A to B as fast as possible along roads with 'normal' drivers and you don't necessarily have to stay on the Road either. There are some 'wacky' events - one of the first is to race a Jeep - except that Jeep is dangling from a Helicopter and gets dropped metres from the finishing line... You can set up your own events - select the cars/classes/laps, time of day etc too - whether on or off road. It has jumps and boards to smash, hidden cars (called Barn Finds that if you locate, will be restored and added to your garage. You have customisation etc too.

Personally I prefer Horizon - just because its 'different' where as Motorsport, its virtually the same everytime. OK so the cars and their specs may differ, the tracks differ - even the weather now adds a bit more variety and unpredictability, but the principal is the same - beat other cars to the finish and then rinse/repeat but Horizon, its up to you if you just want to drive, race - even ad-hoc rather than be dictated that this 'car class' and 'track' is 'next' in the season. Its that freedom and variety that Horizon offers that appeals more to me but for others its 'too' casual and 'only 30fps' - although runs smoothly enough...

Anyway hope that helps

@KratosMD @BAMozzy Thanks for the detailed answers my friends. To be fair I don't have an xbox, I haven't even held the controller lol.

After the introduction of the "Play Anywhere" thing I started catching up. I firstly tried Killer Instict and liked it. Now I have sometime off from my "good" PC I use for coding so I wanted to try a Forza game and, for me, Horizon 3 seemed a better choice from what I saw online. Thanks for the help. I will buy look for a cheap digital version of it.

First NBA 2K18 with its 5 GB save file; now Forza 7 with a 50 GB day one patch.
What's next, a 300 GB OS for our consoles?

REALLY! that's as big as an actual game plus what about those of us in areas that don't get high internet speeds even on fiber (it's about 30mbs where i live), it's going to take AGES!

you know if a game has a day one patch that big they should release it on the store instead of as an update and let people download it early so they can ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME THE BROUGHT!!!

@FullbringIchigo I don't have a XB1 but I remember the 360 let you manage install, DLC and patch files separately. I just have a 7gb/month plan for my phone and it's more then enough for work and daily life. If a game is released broken and with a huge patch then I just wait for the Goty edition. Will I soon have to spend €30 month only to play offline games?!? I know I sound like a 20th century grandpa, but I can happily live with a new game on disc and a new book on paper every month...

Microsoft has revealed the first 13 backwards-compatible original Xbox games for Xbox One. These first 13 will be available tomorrow, October 24. All are enhanced with 1080p resolution, higher and/or smoother framerates, and faster loading times.

These are the first 13 games you can play on any Xbox One if you own the title.
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Ninja Gaiden Black
Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge
Fuzion Frenzy
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Psychonauts
Dead to Rights
Black
Grabbed by the Ghoulies
Sid Meier’s Pirates!
Red Faction II
BloodRayne 2
The King of Fighters Neowave

If you still have your original Xbox disc, just insert it into your Xbox One console. If you own it digitally, that will also work. For titles that support System Link multiplayer, it still works – even across the Xbox family. Online multiplayer is not supported, however, as servers for original Xbox games were shut down years ago.

Also Microsoft’s Xbox backwards compatibility team is adding Xbox One X-specific enhancements to four high-profile Xbox 360 games that are already playable on Xbox One:
Halo 3
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Fallout 3
Assassin’s Creed

All four updates will be available for free to anyone who owns the game on November 7, the same day the Xbox One X launches. Some titles now have 10-bit color depth unlocked where they previously had 8-bit, others have HDR lighting enabled, and all have nine times the on-screen pixels.

My internet is going to take a pounding on 7th November then, I have Halo 3 and Assassin's Creed and then all the other stuff that'll need downloading when I fire up my Scorpio Edition.

The only game I had off the first list was Black and that was a superb game. Very challenging and fantastic graphics at the time. I watched a lets play type video of it the other day and it still looked quite good for such an old title.

@crippyd I have an external HDD and as some games will be patched before the 7th, I can pre-download in readiness. The X 360 editions are, as afar as I am aware, just using the games as they were coded/built but just changing the settings rather than adding any 'extras' to them

Ninja Gaiden Black (OG Xbox Game) was actually made in widescreen and at a higher resolution but was limited by the hardware. I guess its no different to most of todays games that are built in 4k but then limited to 1080p (or less) for the consoles

Here is a video of KOTTR and how it compares on both XB1s and OG Xbox.

Taken from IGN
“This detail has always been there, but the technology of the day was holding it back,” said Xbox principal software engineer Eric Heutchy as he pointed out the orange bill and black outline now clearly visible in 1080p on a duck icon in Fuzion Frenzy’s “Twisted System” minigame.

Basically saying that these 'old' games were not necessarily built at SD resolutions - even back then and so that 'detail' the extra resolution is able to offer is not something that is being added 'now' but because of higher quality hardware and displays, being able to show it.

I think its great that these games are not at the exact same level at which we first played these. The fact the new hardware can allow games to be 'enhanced' through nothing more than a 'tweak' of a setting or two (like increasing the output resolution) and some of the 'inbuilt' Anisotropic Filtering (in the case of those X enhanced games) is great.

I know that some games still show their age in more than just visuals (especially the OG BC titles and the 4:3 ratio) but at least they have made these 'better' than they were - maybe not quite as good as we remember. I say remember because I remember thinking how 'lifelike' Goldeneye looked and being amazed at how well they captured the actors likeness for all the characters but look back at these now and you wonder how you could have been so impressed by the visuals, how rough they look etc. I thought KOTTR was so realistic but compared to what Dice's Star Wars: Battlefront 2 looks like, its a massive difference