Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

I'm not one for conspiracies but is it wild to consider MS have paid off some developers and publishers recently to delay Pro/HDR patches? What with Evil Within, Wolfenstein and Assassins Creed all launching recently with varying degrees of higher resolution/HDR support (in the case of Evil Within, none) but with promises these features will be introduced once the XB1X drops - I'm left raising an eye brow.

To be fair there is a precedent for Bethesdas lack of support for Pro on launch most recently with Prey so maybe it's just one of those things.

It is a bit of a bummer having to wait for these patches though. But I guess it gives you a good reason to replay games.

@kyleforrester87 Good conspiracy theory. Maybe the third party studios are set up to deliver the best game possible on 1080p and a couple of staff (if any) on the higher res stuff and hdr for specific consoles. I can see all games launching with a better resolution choice with hdr in a couple of years. If you look at the first wave x360 games and compare them to the last year its a night and day difference. Throw in the upgraded 4k consoles and they have to aim for the lowest common denominator.

@kyleforrester87 Its possible of course but I would be surprised if that is the case. Its not the first time that 'Pro' support has come after release and I didn't think Evil Within 2 and Wolfenstein 2 were linked with any manufacturer specifically. I know AC: Origins had the marketing deal with MS but that game also launched with Pro support with HDR to be added at a later date. Its not as if you don't get the resolution increase - a dynamic resolution of 1350-1584p - not surprising as this represents a 2x pixel count to match the 2x GPU increase although I had expected a 1800p Checkerboard solution. Point is, that is at least supported and its hard to determine whether HDR would have been delayed too if the X was already released or not.

In the build up to launch, the Evil Within was never actually listed as getting Pro support. It was assumed it would because it was listed as an 'enhanced' game on Xbox but again, whether it would have been supported at launch had the X been out or not, we don't know. Prey took a while to add support for the Pro too. I don't know anything about Wolfenstein 2 yet on Pro - whether that has any support or not.

Playing 'Devils Advocate', the Pro/X are probably not the priority for Devs to ensure support at launch. Its more important their games run as well as possible on the 'Base' versions as they are by far the more 'popular' models in peoples homes. If they work 'well' on base, then they will work well on the more powerful hardware - even if they are not enhanced. As for HDR, most studios have very few HDR monitors/TV's so its not easy for them to build a game in HDR from the outset. Its probably added in after but most can at least add 10 bit WCG and its just the 'brightness/contrast' that needs to be checked on HDR monitors. not every 'white' for example needs to be the brightest and some 'reds' for example need to be brighter than the same colour red (like for LED/Neon lighting) so ensuring the brightness values are 'correct' and the 'lighting' of a scene works properly is probably done after the game is 'built' because of the lack of HDR monitors/TV's in studio's. I could of course be wrong and giving devs the benefit of doubt. I could very easily be cynical and/or think there is some 'conspiracy' at play between MS, Sony and the Devs.

However, historically we have not seen games 'nerfed' on one system because of some 'marketing' deal. When you look at the past 4yrs as an example, the PS4 has had the edge on visuals regardless of whether MS had the marketing deal or not. Games like CoD ran at 1080p on PS4 but 900p on Xbox despite the fact that MS had the marketing deal at that time. Destiny originally was going to run at 900p on Xbox too and the beta actually did but that also was around the time that MS dropped Kinect (to a degree) and freed up additional resources for developers, working closely with Bungie to hit 1080p despite the fact Sony had a big deal in place.

In the lead up to the X's release MS has said its working with ALL devs, inc Bungie, Dice, Sledgehammer (although not by name) to offer 'enhanced' versions of games (Destiny 2, SWBF2, CoD:WW2) on the X BUT cannot say anything specific as its up to the 'devs' to announce (as and when they can per agreements). If any game doesn't run as 'expected' based on other games, it reflects more on the devs. If a game doesn't run at a solid 30/60fps, you don't criticise Sony/MS for their poor choice in opting for a weak CPU, you blame the devs for poor optimisation or choices. Games like Unity and Just Cause 3 suffered because of the weak CPU's and ambition of the devs. AC games now won't have hundreds of NPC's in such a 'small' area anymore - at least not until Consoles have much better CPU's for example. You didn't blame Sony when games like Fallout 4 couldn't handle 'fog'. If Devs don't deliver a reasonable enhanced option based on the specs, people won't criticise their console but the Devs for not trying hard enough - it reflects more on them. Ideally, we want that support at launch too!

EDIT: Wolfenstein 2 does get Pro support at launch - its running at a native 1440p.

A video to show you what the benefits to non-patched games - the equivalent to Sony's Boost mode essentially.

It really does show how much of a benefit to loading times, 16x Anisotropic filtering and how it improves resolution/frame rates to those dynamic resolution and unlocked frame rate games. Its almost enough of a boost to warrant buying it without considering the 'enhanced 4k' games.

The video's are coming out now the embargo has lifted but I think this video will be more important to most at the moment - until they build up a decent library of X enhanced games. Its a massive boost in some cases. Hitman some small drops below 60fps in some areas - the GPU intensive areas that only scrape above 30fps - thats nearly double the frame rate - that also occurs in AC: Unity in places (at least pre-patch that capped the frame rate at 30fps). Impressive!

I think it does show though what was needed at launch in terms of specs - just to hit 1080 and locked frame rates. If they were going for 60fps, even a 'X' CPU looks a bit weak. I do wonder though if these games are not DX12 as that is baked in and should free up CPU resources above the level we see here.

And now Digital Foundry's review....

Not exactly a lot of games were available to test were they, "the jury's still out" sums MS up perfectly this gen.

@adf86 Its hardly fair on MS now is it. Most of the enhanced games are 3rd Party and rely on other Devs to patch in support. I also don't think consoles like the XB1 or PS4 had 'many' games to base their reviews on either in the weeks before launch. What about the Switch - Zelda and 1-2 Switch... If you based an entire review on just those 2 games, its not exactly going to come out well and the 'jury' would still be out until Mario Kart, Splatoon. Mario Odyssey, Skyrim etc release.

ANY console, regardless of whether its an iterative upgrade OR a new generation is reliant on the support it gets throughout its life span. The advantage of the X is that it has a massive library at launch - OK so most aren't patched with enhancements but the results of playing non-patched games is impressive. Lets not forget that at launch, the Pro had NO benefits (well a small loading time bonus but nothing like the X) to non-patched games because there was NO boost mode at all. Not all patches offered an improvement either - Last of Us for example lost the locked 60fps that the base model offered until that was 'patched' again, lots of games only benefited 4k TV owners as few offered super-sampling. Some games also had 'delayed' pro support that was 'promised' too and others performed worse in terms of frame rates on the Pro - something that was allegedly not permitted by Sony's guidelines.

Point is, any console is going to be 'jury's out' for a while - its also no different from some game reviews were reviewers can't get online to test the MP for example. I certainly don't think that sums up MS at all this gen. For many people they were condemned before the XB1 even launched and spent the past 4 yrs living under the shadow of Sony's more powerful hardware. Whatever MS has done to try and rectify the mistakes, inc completely removing any of the aspects that condemned them at E32013, with the 'final' aspect, the Kinect which was supposed to be 'essential', being removed from bundles less than 6months later. Since Phil Spencer has come in, MS has worked damn hard on the XB1 - the dash is so much quicker, easier etc than it was at launch, Backwards Compatibility added for free - inc all the upgrades to old games that could pass for a 'HD' remaster, or in the case of the few 360 X enhanced games, '4k HDR remastered', redesign and removal of the power brick, customisable controllers, incredible custom consoles (Gears 4 XB1s is amazing), building the Elite controller, offering a steady flow of 'exclusives' - some timed admittedly, adding in a 4k HDR Bluray player and Atmos, the customisable home page, external HDD support, 4 games a month with Gold as well as offering the 'best' online service - albeit slight (before any PS4 fanboys start about 'how great PSN is) and independently verified etc etc - believe it or not I can add more (cross-play...) . I know that they could of done more in terms of game support but they also had to stick with the choice of hardware they settled on at the start. They could very easily of drawn a line under the XB1 and released the X as a next gen console, a fresh start but even if they had done so, the reviews would still have to be 'initial' impressions as consoles evolve over time - depending on the games etc. These iterative consoles are dependent on which games get support and how much effort is put into it.

@BAMozzy Look I know you've had a big soft spot for the X for awhile but if MS really wanted this to take off then they would have done their damnedest to show it off at every point, the only poster childs for it that are exclusive to system are Gears 4 and Forza 7 and even one of them is a year old. Where's the Halos, Sunset Overdrives and the other Forzas, surely they should have had X patchs ready for launch since they've been hyping it up for 18 months. You keep talking about what a great job they've done but has that really translated into the market? Not really, PS4 is still the dominate platform and for all the talk about BC, cross platform and "True 4k" those things don't reach a mass casual audience because they're perfectly happy to have a HD TV and a PS4 slim with Fifa, CoD and the odd exclusive every year. Which begs the question why MS bothered with this machine at all, maybe they thought people bought the PS4 because it was more powerful which wasn't the case, it was price and convenience that pushed that system.

@adf86 I always have a 'soft spot' (as you put it - I call it enthusiasm) for ANY hardware that is going to improve my preferred hobby and something that the majority of my free time is spent doing. The fact that in this instance, that happens to be the Xbox One X, where as last year it was PS4 Pro and 4yrs ago, I was more enthusiastic over the PS4 but I was still excited at getting an XB1 too. Its not necessarily the plastic box of electronics but what that enables them to offer.

Like in 2016, when Sony released the Pro, there was no 'big PS4 games' to show it off at launch. It was launched just like the 'Slim' and like MS's Slim too. Why? because it is still part of the same family, still an XB1/PS4 but a more powerful version built predominantly for those XB1/PS4 owners who have a 4k HDR TV. Built to improve the resolution primarily to reduce/remove the upscaling blurriness (softness) that is inevitable when increasing the size by 4x (or more in some cases). When 75% (or more) of the image is interpolated from the other 25% its obviously going to look less impressive than a 1:1 map that 1080p on a 1080p TV offers. Admittedly its not that bad - having had a 4k TV for over 3yrs but its not ideal. The other aspect of these consoles though was to 'improve' game performance - offer more consistent and/or higher frame rates. Maybe this has appeared more as a 'secondary' concern for devs after they have focused primarily n resolution boosts but there is still an improvement in performance overall. Boost mode improving the majority of non-patched games and offering a 'generally' higher frame rate performance - inc some games at (upto) 60fps compared to 30fps caps on base hardware. Now as a gamer, if that doesn't excite or leave you feeling 'enthusiastic' about a device, then I don't know what will.

Had the X been a Sony console, I would still be 'enthusiastic' and looking forward to my pre-order arriving too. As for 'patches' MS are aiming for 70 games to be patched by the end of Week 1. The console isn't out yet and their are more patched games than you would normally see games with a new console launch. Just because the work that MS has done has not translated in to sales, that still doesn't negate the 'work'. You could argue the same about many games that have hearts and souls pored into them and then fail to sell for 1 reason or another. That still doesn't mean the 'dev's' didn't do a lot of great work.

The reason MS built this, is the same reason Sony built the Pro, the same reason MS built the Elite Controller. If they do go the iterative route rather than 'generational' as Sony are, this is their 'next gen' system and in 3-4yrs will have a new 'premium' console on the market. Its inevitable that Sony's PS5 will have the same target audience the X is aimed for, many of the 'next gen' features - like 4k HDR Bluray, Dolby Atmos, Game VRR. Its obviously going to target 4k HDR gaming with 4k textures etc and no doubt do it 'better' than the X will as I bet it will have a better APU. Unlike MS though, they will no doubt keep some games specifically for the PS5 launch. MS could of kept Forza 7, PUBG and released a Gears 4/Forza Horizon 3/Quantum Break/Halo Wars 2 etc Remastered 'Scorpio' games to launch with it - as well as maybe games like Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Dead Rising 4 'remastered' with 4k resolution, textures and HDR. Games like Evil Within 2, Wolfenstein 2, ACOrigins, CoD:WW2 etc could also launch as 'Scorpio' editions too - similar to what we saw at the start of this gen with AC4 Black Flag, Battlefield 4, CoD: Ghosts etc getting a 2nd release with the XB1/PS4 launches. That could/would have made the 'X' look like it was launching with a LOT of games but no doubt, gamers would have had to buy the Scorpio edition to play on that console with the enhanced visuals. Maybe season passes/stats would transfer up like they did in some games but instead, we get those games 'enhanced' on the X without needing to buy 'new' versions of games.

Within less than 6months, the XB1 was cheaper than the PS4 because they removed Kinect from the bundle. Its still cheaper than a PS4 yet people were still buying the PS4. You can argue that E3 2013 had a big impact despite the fact that the 'only' negative left at launch was the insistence of bundling in Kinect. When that was removed, nothing remained of the things that people hated so much. You can't argue that 'exclusives' were the reason then because Xbox had bigger and more numerous games at that time too. The PS4 was more expensive, had 'fewer' big exclusives (more indie exclusives though) and still outsold the XB1 - the one thing Sony had in its favour was the significantly superior GPU and that was translated into games - the big 1080p vs 900p factor that ALL gaming websites made such a big deal about. Yes the XB1 was more expensive at launch but was cheaper within a year. A lot of the PS fanboys were saying that 'power' mattered back then, better to play the majority of their games at better than the Xbox etc and now the boot is on the other foot, Power doesn't matter, graphics are not important, can't understand why MS built the X and yet bought a Pro...Hypocrisy!!! I bet they will be very enthusiastic over the PS5, enthusing over all the specs that are superior to the X etc. Power and graphics will suddenly matter again then....

Has anyone pre-ordered an Xbox One X from Microsoft themselves? My bank has put the £450 aside yesterday and says that it’s pending but has anyone actually had a payment gone through or will MS take the money in the next couple of days?

@MaccaMUFC Its probably going through clearing and can take 3-5days - especially over a weekend. If the bank have put it aside, that means that MS have put in the request for payment but like 'cheques' (remember those LOL) the money takes a few days to go through.

I pre-ordered my Project Scorpio edition from Amazon - I definitely won't have to call it the Xbox One X now

@BAMozzy So basically I might not even get my Project Scorpio delivered to me on Tuesday? I’ll be fuming, I’ve got AC, Wolfenstein and CoD waiting to be played. I bet there will be plenty of Xbox One Xs in stores because I’d of just bought it that way but didn’t want to chance it in case they were like gold dust and not able to get hold of one for weeks.

@MaccaMUFC I am not saying that, I am saying that banks take a few days to process a cash transfer. MS could and should still dispatch it on Monday to arrive on Tuesday. I bet the Money will be in their account on Monday so they should still dispatch in time for a delivery on Tuesday. Whilst there maybe a few consoles still around in stores, you will certainly struggle to find a Project Scorpio edition - unless people opt to swap it for a standard edition. Not that it matters I guess - unless you want the design specifically and/or the vertical stand without having to pay extra.

I also have AC, Wolfenstein, CoD, as well as Forza 7, Evil Within 2 with SW:BF2 coming a week after. I am still expecting mine on Tuesday and Amazon haven't dispatched it yet (its due for dispatch on Monday) so I wouldn't worry yet about it.

@BAMozzy I’ve just had an email from Microsoft at 8 o’clock this morning saying my Project Scorpio has been dispatched 😃 I only chose the standard delivery service with UPS, I could of paid £10 for express delivery but didn’t, hopefully it should be here tomorrow, if not Wednesday. I wished I installed all the games on an external hard drive ready to play straight away but never done it before, least I can play one game at a time while the others are downloading. Going to be like a fat kid in a sweet shop come tomorrow morning (or the next day) see you online! 👍

@MaccaMUFC I said that there would be no issues with MS and the way banks work. MS would have asked your bank for the money to ensure they know its OK to dispatch. Whether its actually cleared or not, I would think they have an idea that it will be ok before sending but it will still be sent to arrive in time.

I have an External and made sure I backed up my details and installed a few 4k patches in advance. I can just plug this in before I turn on my Project Scorpio and it will set up my Console automatically and be ready to go instantly. I can see it being a busy week for my Internet if MS are expecting over 70 updates within the first week to be available. Its a bit more difficult than the Pro patches. The Pro only adjusts the visual settings - the output resolution and maybe a few tweaks in shadow quality, draw distances etc. With the X patches though, they have to supply the 4k Textures (not all games though) and that's then a bigger patch that has to go through 'clearing'. Small updates/fixes can be rushed through but anything that's being 'added' has to be passed by MS clearing.

I am really looking forward to mine to. Not heard from Amazon yet but even if I have to wait an extra day or 2, I could spend that time on my Pro with H:ZD's DLC that comes out tomorrow. I have waited up to a month to play 5 new games so an extra day wouldn't be a big 'disappointment' but I am still excited that after 17months, I finally get my hands on MY Project Scorpio!

I got an email this morning from Very saying my Scorpio has been dispatched, so I hope my wife is in tomorrow to take delivery.

MS seem to have a new focus on games according to the Bloomberg interview

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/microsoft-boosts-video-game-investment-as-focus

The latest digital foundry ps4 pro to xbox one x comparison for titanfall 2 is kinda hilarious, textures, framerate, locked resolution and some other junk perform better on the pro, don't worry though cut scenes perform better on the one x. One has to imagine further patches are due but currently it's a bit sad.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi It was a poor effort - if any effort at all was put in. Sure it will be patched properly - its not as if the Pro launched smoothly and games delivering as expected either. Its only one game - with the others offering a lot more so sucks if the only enhanced game you have is a dead 1yr old EA published game when all the others do a much better job.

@BAMozzy as they said in the review, it's bizarre the results they got, they must be working on further patches, not great for launch if word starts getting round the Pro is on par, work in progress as with any new gen/mid gen, they'll take time to optimise it