@Octane The map was one of my minor gripes. I really like the idea of it appearing in-game but the implementation was a little bit messy. Honestly, Fallen Order as a whole just got me really hyped for Metroid Prime 4 if it ever arrives 😂
@nessisonett Yeah, that's true. It fits the game. Metroid's maps aren't a lot better, but they were at least a lot clearer, and didn't have the Star Wars hologram fuzz.
It's a shame how Nintendo has treated Metroid over the years, because it could've something great. They got beaten in their own game. Prime 4 will hopefully be good, but if it's a Switch 2 game they can screw themselves
@Octane Great Fallen Order review. It has peaked my interest. I have had it downloaded on my Xbox since it came on Gamepass but it has never grabbed me as a must play. However, I like Metroid style games (see my incoming next user impression) and my love of Star Wars is growing again following watching Clone Wars and the Mandalorian so I may dust this off.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
With a finger on the pulse of the gaming community, Rudy dishes up yet another highly timely and relevant review of a game that was released back in 2017 on PC and then in 2018 on Switch (and other consoles hereafter). WOW!
Now, Hollow Knight is a very popular game. Like many From Soft games, it has a massive cult following, Youtubers still get thousands of views producing Hollow Knight content. As I gather from the forums where I have mentioned me playing it, it seems a lot of people have also played it so I was torn whether to bother writing up my opinion. Then I thought, actually, let's do this since I haven't written up a User Impression in ages. Partly because I've been playing this game since the start of December.
I have struggled with Hollow Knight in the past. After seeing the PC version but knowing little about it, I instantly bought it when it stealth dropped on the Switch in 2018 after its E3 announcement. I played it very lightly just to see it, possibly an hour or so but then shelved it because it was clear that I needed to dedicate some time to it. Later that summer, when spending a few days at my rural in-laws, I decided it was time to hit that game on the Switch (playing portably). I got maybe 5-6 hours in, found it quite tough and obtuse to navigate and explore and just felt it was too hard. Looking back, I'm not sure if it was playing with the joy cons or the smaller screen but I put it down and thought I'll come back to it. As it became more popular, I actually got a physical copy with some birthday money and was like, I will defo come back to it. I never did.
Fast forward to start of December this year and after I got the PS5 set up, I decided to install my PS4 in my office, neatly tucked behind my work monitor. I am a hardware collector so like having lots of old consoles surrounding me. I booted it up, got it online and decided to download Hollow Knight from PS Plus to test net speeds and thentried the game. Within 30 minutes of starting from scratch, I was hooked. So now, having got a shiny new console downstairs, I was up in my office playing on my PS4 (I know I could have played on PS5 too but like having a game upstairs for when I don't have TV access).
By hooked I mean, the game just clicked. It seemed far easier then it had - no longer obtuse, I felt no stress in exploration but rather just a sense of discovery. My favourite game of all time is Super Metroid but I can't really say I'm someone that plays a lot of Metroidvania games. Partly because, for me, a Metroidvania is about being totally absorbed by the world and the design needs to be perfect, so that you get that drive to discover every nook and cranny. Hollow Knight really made me feel like I was playing Super Metroid again. The art design, the music, the sound effects and lore made such a unique world. The difficulty, for the most part (more on that later), seemed to have that perfect arc. I was like, oh yeah, this is why this game is so beloved, how did I not see it before?
So I have now got to the 'true ending'. I have put in 70 hours, beaten all optional bosses, got all charms, masks and soul upgrades. I completed the Grimm Troupe DLC. I fully upgraded the Dream Nail and got some random trophies. I incorrectly thought I could go for the 112% trophy since I had seen online that you to get that achievment on PC, you just need to get the true ending. Turns out it is different on PS4. So anyway, I got 106% completion and I'll probably leave it there.
Overall, the game is incredibly impressive. It feels more expensive then it is - a completely huge, well balanced and designed game from a very small studio. The art is beautiful but also practical - the areas tell their own stories, the atmostphere and challenges are different depending on the design of the area. The music is something I have been listening to on repeat, a sign that I am rather addicted to the game. The world of Hollow Knight is sad, dystopian but with hints of former glory and mystery. They have got the story pitch perfect - rather than trying to tell a linear story across a largely open world, it is fragmentary and needs piecing together. Then you need to go on Youtube and read all the various theories and lore dives. I love that since it gives the world a depth and a community around it.
So let's talk difficulty. The game has a reputation for being difficult and I wanted to address that the most in this review. Is this game tough? Largely... No. Exploration can be difficult but designed quite well. When you unlock an ability, typically it makes the previous area a lot easier. New areas are tougher but they typically drive you towards a much needed upgrade. If you do find an area really tough, it probably means you need to slow it down and explore old areas to find charms and upgrades to make you tougher or give advantages. I am not great at platforming and I died a lot exploring but often due to being too impulsive or not learning enemy patterns or the shape of the room.
So it's easy? Ah.. no. Firstly, boss fights. This game has a few mandatory bosses and a lot more optional bosses. Oddly, most people seem to focus on bosses in games that feature tough boss encounters and that is the same with Hollow Knight. I actually don't like the focal point of bosses. In Hollow Knight, I would suggest they make up most of my hours in the game. The bosses are largely about learning patterns and getting near perfect timings. I always find in boss fights that I do better on single fights with smaller opponents. I walked through both Hornet Fights but fighting larger creatures or those where I have lots of things bouncing around? I struggle massively. I literally have to play those fights 30 plus times to get the rhythmn.
Some of the time, the bosses are there as a warning that you are going too fast and need to go back and find upgrades. For example, I got a boss Encounter with the Watcher Knights. These are mandatory bosses for the story. Tried a few times, thought this is impossible, went off to explore. Came back after some key upgrades, fight was far easier. Not easy, but the game was telling me that unless I was super skilled, I ought to level up.
Sometimes though, the bosses are just tough and have to be fought and ultimately, need precision and skill to overcome. There are often strategies and builds you can make to do certain boss fights that help massively and it's good to experiment but these will not often make up for the fact your timings and reaction times need to be good. I personally struggle on this point. I can only get through via repetition and hard won muscle memory. Here, to me, is where the question of difficult and accessibility in games comes in. I will never be a 'good player'. My reaction times and ability to learn are just very very slow. This is true of a lot of reaction heavy games. I suck at rythmn games. I sucked at Bloodborne... and I have played games most of my life. Your difficulty in the game will depend completely on your ability and many players will just say its the same for everybody, you need to get good but I'd argue that isn't the case. Some players can beat Dark Souls on Donkey Kong bongos. Others can do a game like Hollow Knight in 40 minutes. Skill is a real thing in gaming and not everyone is as skilled as others.
What that means is that Hollow Knight is largely very accessible for a slow and steady player with some difficulty spikes in bosses and sections. There is a lot of challenging content in this game that is largely optional. A lot of bosses can be fought in different variants and are not really needed to beat the game - there are also challenges to complete, such as the Pantheon (essentially boss rush modes) that give achievments but nothing else in the story. There are also some additional platforming challenges such as the Path of Pain. I feel no problem skipping these since I know they are designed for players who want to push themselves further. I don't need to be able to beat them to play the game and get satisfaction.
MOSTLY. In some cases though, I feel that some sections of extreme challenge are needed and they feel out of place. The most glaring point is the While Palace section, that I lamented on another thread. This is a difficult platforming
section that is, technically optional, unless you want to see the 'true ending'. Which as someone that invested 60 hours at that point into the game, I really wanted. That meant, for me, platforming hell. In the end I needed to google some tricks to help my health (by equipping certain charm items) and spend hours failing over and over. Yes I made it but I didn't enjoy it. I didn't even feel a sense of accomplishment because I had found it that gruelling. I've seen players on youtube show you how to do it and they make it look so easy but you have to have skill. I'd suggest that this locks out a lot of players from seeing that true end because it is so much more difficult than anything else that had come from the game. The same was true of some powerups that would make the game easier being locked behid some challenges or very very difficult optional bosses. Don't even get me started on beating the last optional boss, The Radiance (though stupidly it turned out I was missing a major upgrade that made the fight easier, but still...).
This difficulty is compounded in some areas by the amount of backtracking often needed to get back to it. Many save points are a long way away from the boss. Often, if you get your bottom kicked, you need soul, the material you use for spells and health. So that means farming before a boss and/or a long old job to get back into the game. If you are unskilled like me, you have to exert a lot of effort to even get to the challenge. I can't see a design reason for this personally other than artificially forming a barrier to allow players to get good.
So my feeling is that most players, with patience, can get through the game but you need to invest a lot of time or be very skillful to get the most out of the game and see all it has to offer. Not sure how I feel about that - it touches on the whole 'easy mode' question. Essentially, if you struggle with some games because your reflexes aren't good enough, Hollow Knight 90% of the time will allow you to plod through. Unless you really want to see all the world has to offer then you need that skill.
Is that a complaint? No, but it affects its reputation. I was amazed, looking at the trophy list, that so few people had got very early trophies. Something is putting players off, clearly. Which is a shame because this is pretty much gaming perfection. So engrossing, so beatiful, so well designed. I still think this is a near perfect game, I just feel that difficulty spikes might mean not everyone can enjoy a game that, for the most part, is accessible.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Rudy_Manchego That’s a great review of Hollow Knight. I appreciate your candor about the game and it’s difficulty (or relative lack thereof). I’m probably a similar player as you — not very skilled per se, but can be tenacious when I’m driven to be. I can see myself enjoying the base experience in Hollow Knight but skipping the optional stuff that is higher on the difficulty level.
That said, it sounds like there is a large time and emotional commitment if I’m to enjoy this game. As such, I’ll probably leave it for now. Perhaps someday I’ll get a craving for a deep and immersive Metroid style
platformer and I’ll have it waiting for me (so long as I keep my PS Plus sub active, that is)
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Thanks! I mean, I think you could get through the game quicker. I spent 70 hours and I did do optional stuff and some DLC content. I have seen an average play time of around 30 hours which is still no short change but doable. However, is worth it. I think we had similar experiences on Bloodborne if I rememeber correctly which was we did it but it took some time!
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Rudy_Manchego Yes, the Bloodborne experience was one of commitment and YouTube assistance. 😅
The gameplay loop of “go back and level up and grind a bit before trying this boss again” sounds familiar. The thing that sounds different in Hollow Knight is that when you go back to level up to make a boss easier, it’s not just grinding random enemies to earn XP, it sounds like you have to explore a bit and find a specific power-up item or skill which makes the boss easier. In some ways that sounds more fun than grinding random base enemies for blood echoes, but in some ways it sounds like it could be more frustrating as well, trying to find said item/skill.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Octane More praise for Fallen Order. I really need to quit dragging my feet on that one.
Good write-up. Also nice to hear the game doesn't drag. Proper pacing is often overlooked, but it's important for story-based games.
It's really one of the first Star Wars-based games that has grabbed my attention (other than Galactic Battlegrounds on PC), since it seems like a proper story-based adventure, rather than a pod racer or space shooter or something. The SW mythology is just begging for more stuff like this and The Mandalorian, IMO.
I'm not sure I would have gotten through the game if it wasn't on the Switch, since the portability and constant accessibility of it meant I was constantly going back to try different challenges and whatnot. Although I also didn't play as much as you... I think I got the true ending, and ended up playing for 30+ hours, but at that point I didn't even bother to touch the DLC content. Partially since the Souls-y design of the game means you have to go out and deliberately look for it, which I wasn't really sweet on, and partially because I'd had my fill of the experience anyway.
And yeah, the White Palace segment sucked.
Plan on snagging the sequel when it releases?
Currently Playing: Fields of Mistria (PC); Cookie Clicker (PC); Metaphor: ReFantazio (PC); Overboard! (PC)
@Ralizah Good thing is that it's relatively cheap at this point. Which was the reason why I bought it in the first place. Squadrons is a bit of a dud in comparison, based on what I've played so far, but I really enjoyed my time with JFO.
@Th3solution Oh yes, no real grinding really. For example, I got my backside kicked by a boss, found a different door, found a different area and several hours later remebered how I got there and went back to the boss. It is fairly intuitive as well in terms of level design. Only a few items are hidden behind bosses. Some are just waiting to be found.
@Ralizah I can see your reasoning. I think you can see all the game has to offer within 30 hours (which is no short time). I explored every inch really and did the DLC (and I am a bit rubbish). As for Silksong, I will be getting that day one. Hollow Knight was so competetively priced at launch, I really want to support Team Cherry.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@RogerRoger Nice review. This completely skipped me by but I remember quite vividly playing Frontline and was it Rising Sun on Gamecube and being wowed by how much of a step up they were from previous era shooters. They had some wow factor - at least for my jaded brain.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
Right, one of my gaming resolutions was to try and keep up with this thread better so I've jumped back a few pages to catch up (apologies to the ones I've missed as I know it takes effort to write them !)
I can't say I've ever played any of the DOA games and only know them for that reason and it's kind of good to hear it hasn't abandoned it's roots! The amount of costumes (and the cost!) seems kind of silly but I guess it fits with the vibe of the game. It sounds like you enjoyed it though and that final boss does sound like a bit of a beast being able to change character at will.
Squadrons isn't a game I would have considered buying but I do enjoy the odd dogfighting simulator. Your thoughts make it sound like the short story is still worth playing and the few screenshots you threw in do look rather pretty. The idea of playing both sides sounds like it's well done too. Did you end up playing multiplayer much more in the end?
What an odd little game. I thought it was going to be a retro style RPG so it was a bit strange to see you talk about Arkanoid/Breakout and weirder to find out why. The idea of spells as powerups is a neat one and secret exits in levels also sounds quite clever. It's a shame it felt like it outstayed its welcome in only a short game though.
It's interesting to hear your thoughts on the game as it was one I loved back in the day but I haven't played the remake. I quite liked the drift style as it was quite tactical to try and get the third big boost. In the original game (where you didn't have UFO-esque vehicles) the smoke out the back of the cart would go black as well when you could boost. I do agree that relic races were well done but CTR ones a bit of a pain. I never minded the boss races but the Nitrous Oxide race is brutal (although I note Foxy seems to say they made him easier)!
The pixel art style is a bit overdone these days but the game looks great. The premise is suitably odd/different as well and you make the cast sound like good fun too. I'm not sure I'll ever play it but it sounds like something I'd enjoy.
Some brief thoughts there (particularly as I ignored the spoilers) but it goes with your thoughts from the thread for the game which finally convinced me to buy the game in the latest sale so I know who to blame if I don't like it (although I'm sure I will). The "short" game time actually sounds like quite a good thing too.
I'm glad you did write your thoughts as it's one of those games I love to hear other people talk about but one I feel isn't that widely known. Congrats on getting through so much of the game though! How did you find Nightmare King Grimm? I've said it many times on here but beating him was a real accomplishment for me (I've posted the video before and even on my successful run I almost ballsed it up).
I'm completely with you on the art, music, and overall feel of the game. It just struck a chord with me and I utterly fell in love with it. I can't say I found too many boss fights complete roadblocks but maybe I just have a higher tolerance for frustration. That said, it was the Hornet fights I found most difficult so it's funny you didn't find those ones too bad. I'm massively looking forward to the next game but with how much post release work they did on this, I'm not sure that picking it up early is a good move!
My MacBook autocorrected Honour there and I'm going to let it stand. That era of games really don't look great do they? It's funny that pixel art can look great and retro but the jagged polygons just look jarring. Anyhoo, what an odd mix of levels jumping around the entire world with fictional and factual battles. That Ardennes bit sounded really well done but I can imagine it didn't really work as a game.
@Thrillho Thanks for reading. I actually never fought Nightmare King Grimm - I think I messed that up. I banished the troupe after talking to the accordion guy as it seemed like the best thing to do. Then I googled it and found I had missed that boss fight. Part of me is relieved though as I know that is considered one, if not the, hardest boss fight.
I think I'll still get Silksong day one - I sort of trust that the base quality will be enough, however, I'd agree that PS4 owners who got the Voidheart edition meant they got the full package. It's like any GOTY edition - they always end up the best.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Rudy_Manchego You probably did save yourself a whole world of pain not facing that boss It's one of those that is immensely tricky but fair as, a bit like you said in your thoughts, it's all about learning the move sets but at quite a speed! Plus, he's the only boss where each hit takes two notches off your health bar.
Here's my vid yet again if you're interested (the music is great but I turned it right down to help me focus!)
The one thing with Silksong is the amount of silence on the project. They're not a big team admittedly but even their twitter account is pretty minimal through 2020, although Edge seemingly had a piece on the game from the end of the year so there's still hope!
@Thrillho Oh wow - you are a far better player than me. I struggled on the non Nightmare version. I can tell you had his move sets pegged. When you got down to one soul I wouldl have panicked but you managed that dodge and Abyss Shriek!
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@RogerRoger Wow! That really was a fantastic review of Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, Rog. You have a way of discussing games that reads more like literature. There's an internal structure to it, but the fantastic writing hides the bones and makes the sentences flow smoothly from one point to the next. Really, really well done. Especially the discussion of your emotional reactions to the game, and how it generated sympathy for your character, and, by extension, real people who were likely trapped in the nightmare of war, crushed between the nexus of duty, honor, and pure terror.
To be honest, I know very little about this franchise, but it's interesting to think about military shooters having started as sober educational lessons about the sacrifices of war when the broad consensus has shifted so much via the recent Call of Duty games to regarding the genre as jingoistic.
That music was pretty good. Very theatrical and grand. I particularly liked Panzer Blockade: lots of variation in that piece, but, generally, it does a good job of conveying danger and thrilling action.
Also, I don't know if it was intentional, but making post #1,488 about a nazi killing game was some god-tier timing.
@Rudy_Manchego Practice makes perfect and there was a whole load of practice for that fight! The shriek was a clever way of getting extra hits in and gives you a brief window of invincibility too. I absolutely thought I was going to do the classic Souls thing of freak out at the last second but somehow didn’t!
@RogerRoger Call of Duty: World at War is worth a go if you want a little realism from the series. Having it set on the Pacific front but also on the Russian front was an interesting twist on the WW2 focus and I really enjoyed it at the time.
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